 All right, today I'm excited to be here with Sophie Massajet. I'm hoping I'm pronouncing that just a little bit correct. And for those of you who have seen my video by the way, you might notice this is a different backdrop because I'm borrowing my wife's office today. So hence the more soft and enlightened look here. But Sophie, I'm really glad to be here with you. Sophie is a member of my MasterHeart Business Mentoring Group and she actually started with some of my courses and I really enjoyed her presence. So invited her into the group and she's been doing great. I mean, she's been learning about authentic marketing, about doing some audience research, some content creation. I wanted her to share some of her lessons or insights with you all. But Sophie, let's begin first with your introduction. You can share with the audience what you love doing with your clients. Thank you, George. You know what got me into working with you was actually a video of yours that was shared about being a multi-passionate business person and you didn't have to say it all, but that's who I am. I'm a multi-passionate business person. I was a scientist for 20 years and I reconverted to being somebody who works with expectant and new families. So I'm a doula and I'm a healer and I'm the author of a book called Why Postnatal Recovery Matters because I'm a mission to bring back nurturing to the postpartum period, which is like the poor little sister of the birth world. But if I was to summarize what I do in very simple term because I have grown into sort of organically from teaching parents to teaching doulas and midwives and all sorts of skills which blend traditional and scientific knowledge. What in a nutshell I do is I like to take people from a place of fear and lack of trust to themselves to a place where they feel they can listen to their inner voice. And that comes with a mix of emotional, practical and knowledge support. I mean, I love nothing more than presenting knowledge to people, but I think it's very important to curate that knowledge so people don't get overwhelmed. So I'm never gonna recommend the same book or article to different people, but mostly I want to have people trust their inner voice. So I never say everything I do, whether it's with parents, people I do healing sessions with or people that support, I'm a doula mentor as well as support new doulas and people in their career in the birth world. I want people to just trust that they know enough and that they know and trust that they can grow in what is like their own unique thing. So I've always said to people when I teach just go and write your own music. You know, like it's like when you bake a cake the first time you will bake the cake according to the exact recipe. And then you bake the cake a couple of times and you think, well, you know, I like ginger better than cinnamon. And so you're gonna swap the spices and actually you're gonna make a better cake. And so I encourage people to do that for themselves. Wow, that's wonderful. Now, one of the things that talk about, and I'm sorry, I'm just changing the camera here. So speaking of trusting yourself, you also have been learning about that for your content creation. Because you came from a scientific background and a lot of the people who are listening to this watching this have a lot of education, trainings, whether it's form education or outside of that. But it's like when a lot of us feel like we need always to need to know more before we could say a little bit that we know we are concerned that, well, maybe what if I get it wrong or what if there's this wrong fact or what if there's some smarter way I can say this? So how, you know, especially as someone who is so well-trained in academia as you, how has that affected your content creation? Your writing, your sharing, your knowledge? Do you mean in general or through out your course or both? Well, you could say in general but you can also apply what you learned from. So the biggest learning for me was when I moved from my being an academic to starting to train as a doula was learning that, well, what I didn't realize was an unspoken rule in the scientific world, which you didn't know everything, you were crap. And I didn't realize I even had that belief until I started doing my doula training and the person doing the training said, you don't have to know everything because nobody knows everything. You go and basically tell your client, I don't know about that. Would you like me to go and find out? Which is also very empowering in terms of not trying to shove information down people's throat. And so after doing my first doula training course, I was still a scientist for four years and the thing that used to scare me the most when I went to conferences was not being able to answer the questions at the end. The presentation I found quite easy but the questions I was always kind of thinking, oh crap, what if they asked something and I don't know what to say? So after having done that training in the next conference I went to as a scientist and somebody said, what about that? And I said, well, you know what? I have no idea. And with a big smile on my face and I said, does anybody know? And there was this really amazing debate in the room. And I remember feeling the energy in the room that had shifted from a place of fear to a place of inquiry. And I thought that's all it took. It was me who needed to have that trust that I didn't know to know everything. And now as a doula, when I accompanied client to appointment with doctors or midwives, I often see that they themselves are prey to the same unspoken belief. So when they're questioned with something they don't know, instead of saying, I don't know, they often make up an answer. Yes, oh wow, this is really insightful because I think all of us have the feeling of that in our own field. And especially those of us who call ourselves coaches or well, actually, let me take that back. As a coach, technically as a coach, those who are trained in official coaching, we are not supposed to know everything. We are supposed to ask powerful questions. But still, when we are doing our marketing, when we are writing or making videos, there is the unspoken assumption in the marketing world, in the online media world that you're supposed to appear as an expert and flawless. And somehow clients, that's how you're supposed to get people to trust you is that you're flawless and you're perfect. And so how are you finding a different way now to forward? So I really like what you shared in your courses and video about that particular bit where you say you know enough with what you know right now because I still felt in my self-attendancy to want to go and research more before I, because before I shared blogs, especially one of my signature things to write really long, very science-heavy blogs that blend, that basically go against the medical mainstream belief of saying hang on a bit, you're being told this, but actually it's more complex than that. So let me see, because most of my colleagues don't have the scientific background, so they can't, they get bamboozled by jargon and that kind of stuff. But now I'm thinking, okay, I still like to, I've always liked to, what if I'm really liberating with the move from science to self-employed birth worker or healer person, is I've been able to grow into my unique self and no longer think I have to do it that way. So I still like to pepper my blog with your link to an article if people want to go and read more because I think it's important, you know, I'm a nerd, I'm a person, I want to do everything. So if there are people like me, they're gonna like that. But now I catch myself thinking, should I go and research it more? And I hear you, your voice saying, you know, I know five weeks, what you know now, now I'm just gonna write my blog and it's quite interesting to notice myself still having that self-talk inside of thinking, oh, you know, do I know enough? Yeah, that's really good. And I hope you'll continue hearing that voice of assurance because just like you mentioned earlier about the story at the conference, when we write something out there or put something out there on social media or on our blog, if someone has a question, they will ask. And the good thing is because we're not live at a conference, if they ask a question, at least gives us a moment to Google it, you know, if we don't know something, we can at least do a little bit of research before we respond. And so this kind of this asynchronous nature of online media writing back and forth gives us, empowers us to not have to know everything right now, right here. So that's really great. I will of course, those of you who are listening to this check the notes below to find links to Sophie's work and you can kind of see her starting to write in her new style. Anything else that you're learning in terms of creating content? So I'm learning about what I really like is that that's what's also very new to me is the idea that you're not trying to sell. So you're not trying to make sure you're writing the right way. And in effect, I've always written that way. I've always written to just tell stories to help other people. And most of my best blogs have been usually pushed by a situation. So to give you the most recent one, a new mother who gave birth a couple of weeks ago said to me, she felt guilty of having about the fact that she had me as to support her because we live in a world that's where, you know, people price independence overall and new mothers get very little support. So people also got this kind of idea that they should be doing it all by themselves. And reaching out for support is not a sign of strength. And so what I often do when I'm with clients, I come home and I write a blog saying, we did identifying the person or anything, but I say, hey, you know, this is how people feel. And that was wrong. You know, like people feel guilty and they're blaming themselves. So, you know, the moist, the most inspired content often comes from real life story in my work. But I'm also, what I found really positive now with the exploration I'm doing with your courses is to start to think of it as not trying to like do anything, but just going, hey, you know, like, this is what's got, this is what's in my head. And if people like it, if they like it, great. If they don't like it, I'm not the person. You know, one of the big transformation now is when people aren't subscribed to my newsletter, I don't feel it's got anything to do with my worth anymore. I'm like, great, they're not my people. Wow, yeah. So since January, since joining you have raised, I think my Instagram audience has raised by 300 people. And that's not been doing any ads has been entirely organic. Wow. Yeah. And when I launched my first webinar, shortly after doing your first course, so I never ran a webinar. And I was slightly freaked out because 315 people signed up. That's a lot. That's amazing. That's amazing. And about 40% of them turn up. It was a free webinar. Which is almost unheard of. Most free webinars get, yeah. Before you, I thought my opening rate of newsletter was crap because I knew nothing. And then I heard you saying you've both basically seen my rate of newsletter opening as me. But I have since shared your thing with other people. And some people have said, I've got 50% opening and I thought that was crap. You know, what? Yeah, yeah. And it, of course, depends on the size of the newsletter as well. But your free webinar attendance of 40% people, I just, just to give everyone context here, when it's a free webinar, it usually has 15 to 35% attendance is what I've tracked over the years. Not just me, but listening to lots of colleagues talk about it. And so 40% is fantastic. Well, so this shift from, yeah. This shift that you felt about creating content, not feeling like you have to sell all the time, but serving. It actually aligned with your values from the very beginning, but somehow maybe you absorb some marketing somewhere that says you're supposed to be selling a lot more than you need to. But talk about that, what was the, yeah, what was that change? The big shift for me was, for instance, I used to, if I talked in a free webinar, if I talked in any kind of video or anything about my work, I was very excited. And then when it came to say, by the way, by my course, it felt all yuck and all sorts of, you know, uncomfortable. And I didn't know how to get out of that. And when you said, you know, in your course about authentic content sharing that you don't need to like worry about, you know, you're just sharing. Yeah, you're just saying to people, hey, you know, I've got this, you like it? So then at the end of this webinar, I for the first time felt comfortable. Yeah, I was very upfront from the start that I said, I'm doing this webinar because I'm launching my new course. And in the webinar, I will tell you that I'm gonna give you an offer on my new course. But at the end of this webinar, I had a slide telling you about the course. I said, you guys, there's absolutely no obligation to buy this course. And in fact, there is free information on my website and there's this, you know, free downloadable thing. And like lots of free blogs to read. But if you'd like to learn more in depth, I have this course. And, you know, I'm giving you a discount for the next three days if you buy it. And I had, I don't know, maybe seven or eight people buy the course, you know. And, but it felt so easy. You know, there was no, like I was, as I talk through the slide, I felt absolutely delighted because I think it's the first time in my life where I'm talking about selling a product and it doesn't feel disgusting. Wow, yeah. Like I'm trying to like backhand it. And I think the most important aspect for me was learning from one of your videos that you have to be upfront with it. Then that remove all the manipulation, all the sort of, you know, you're not being clear because so many people do five day challenges and all sorts of things. And, you know, people think they're getting something for free and then at the end of it, it's all done to sell your product except most, I would say 90% of people don't tell you that this is what the goal of. So I think as you say, people themselves feel yucky because they thought they were getting something for free and then it feels like manipulation. Yeah, it is. It was the entire time, you know, when you went into this free series or whatever, it was cleverly designed as a sales pitch, what they call a marketing funnel or sales pipeline or something like that. But I'm so glad. Yeah, I mean, the fact is businesses sell products, hopefully products that are of genuine benefit to the people that they touch. And businesses should be proud of that. And we shouldn't have to hide the fact that we sell something when it's ready to sell. We proudly say, hey, this is a product that I'm really happy about and I invite you to check it out. And that's it. I mean, if it's the right fit, then they were happy to check it out. And so I love that you were able to find the invitational spirit in it and be really upfront. So one of the things also is really important in authentic business is finding alignment. Well, like I said, you know, the product, if it's a good fit for the audience. And that's something also you've been practicing, you've been learning a bit more is reaching out to your audience, learning about how they see you, what kinds of things that you could do that's most beneficial. So maybe you could talk a little bit about your process in doing that. Yeah, so I've experimented with quite a few things that I'm still experimenting and what I find now is my mind's open and I'm starting to think, oh, maybe I could try that. But it's like starting to have like percolate into. So I have, for instance, starting implementing carousels on Instagram, which I've never done before. And those- Yes, Carousel. Carousel posts the ones that you swipe and read. Yes, yes. So, you know, short one minute videos and those carousels and those one minute video have more rich than anything I've ever shared on Instagram before. Like I'm talking about, you know, a hundred likes or something, whereas I used to have maybe 10 before or 10 or 20 or 20 tops and 200 to 300 views on one minute videos, you know, IGTV videos. So, but also what's liberating is thinking, okay, I don't have to. It's not a reflection of my words. I think this is a really interesting thing. I still see when I see some of the people in your group and I look at their Instagram and I see they've got 10 size and lights and like, you know, and I'm thinking, well, one day they were where I am, you know, and also do I want to have that many? Does it matter? You know, it's like- Yeah, there actually is the more followers we have, the more free work we have to do, essentially. And so it's not always necessarily the best thing. It's like we want to find the most ideal audience that we can best serve, that they resonate most with us. And we just need enough of them. That's it. So because it keeps us very busy otherwise. But yes, go ahead, you were saying. So at the moment, what I want to do is experiments with new way of marketing mine. So I'm developing a lot of online courses because I used to teach face to face. And of course, with the circumstance where this is also unpredictable, I want to put most of the knowledge I used to offer face to face available as an online course. And so because I've got a lot of online course, you know, I've got a bad 10 in my head that I want to create. So that I want to start. One of the things I'm going to start next is to start experimenting with offering people a semi-live format. So it's the same course that's always available on my website, but I will offer months of weekly sessions on Zoom where I will probably do a 15 minutes or 20 minutes of a topic presentation and then give a Q&A. Because I did the first webinar and then I did another one. And on the back of that, I got invited to talk to a group of 100 midwives. And they said they had to cut it down because they reached 100. They were more people wanting. And on the back of that, I was able to basically pass the message to lots of other people. And it felt really good, you know, gave me a lot of experience in doing that. And the Q&A sessions, people stayed the whole 90 minutes, interestingly, even though I was free. And the Q&A session were fantastic. And so I realized I also want to do more of that because it's not just serving my audience. It's something I feel makes me come much more alive than just talking at the camera when I'm live interacting with you. Yeah, and you can always record that if it's appropriate. And you could turn it into a product or you could turn it into a free video, but however you could chop it up. But that's fantastic. When you find something like that where the topic and the audience is such a match, you see all these signups. And the fact is that you got invited into that group is one of the benefits that we seldom don't think about when we do our marketing. It's not always just to get new clients, but it's to find new colleagues, kindred spirits, people who can help us reach and serve more people. So that's fantastic. Now, one of the things that's really interesting is you recently put out a little post on your Facebook asking your audience about what they think of you. Do you want to talk about that experience? Yeah, that was doubly interesting because, well, as you know, I'm doing this Authentic Client on Rumble course with you. And then I do so many things when I try to set down to write what I do. I was like, where do I start, you know? I've made a mind map and I'm like there's so many of shoots, you know? And so I started writing it down and the process itself of writing it down is very helpful because it helps you really narrow down what it is you do. But the thing that blew my mind is the first, I did two of those posts, one that was very unstructured where I just said, hey, what do you think I do? And one friend, somebody who doesn't even know me that well, said, you have people out of fear by trusting themself. And I was like, that's exactly what I'm trying to do but I've never spoken this. And I was blown my mind that this has been coming across. She said, I've been following you for years. And it's again, something George, I've noticed that we cannot measure is, at the moment I don't go to conferences because I haven't been any for the last year but when I used to go, people would often approach me saying, I really like your writing, you know? I've read your blog. I've read this, you know, this is really powerful. It really helps me because again, the whole thing is imbued with like, I'm not pretending to have no knowledge. I'm just sharing. This is my journey, you know, and often. So one blog years ago, one of the first blog I shared where I called it Confession of a Hippie Scientist because when I started doing Reiki, I felt a shame of the Reiki because lots of people said we hire you because you're not a hippie, you know? So I had this problem in my head where I didn't want to talk about the Reiki on my website in case he put some clients off. And then I was talking to these people who said, no, just don't worry about that because if those people are put off then other people you want to work with. So I wrote this blog called Confession of a Hippie Scientist where I came out as an energy worker. And it had incredible impact because one people after the other said, me too, that's exactly how I feel. Thank you so much for writing this. And so now I feel, as you say, it's a ministry. I feel like my sharing my vulnerability and my process and my, hey, you know, this is who I am. It used to make me feel uncomfortable. It doesn't anymore. I might really embrace my multilayered doesn't fit into a box person. And I think nobody fits into a box. But it's the power, I think what we fail to measure especially as heart centered coaches, entrepreneurs and people who work within this field of, you know, kindness and compassion and supporting people. I think often we fail to realize how much impact we have because people don't always tell you, you know, we made it be touching a lot more people than we think. Wow. Yeah. Thank you. This is, and that's a wonderful way for us to conclude this conversation and to remind everybody, yeah, it's keep on sharing. The experiences have been valuable to you that you've seen have been valuable to others because for every like that you might get you're probably impacting five or 10 other people, you know, who didn't have a chance to. But Sophie, thank you. Thank you for sharing how you've been learning and growing. And so tell the audience, do you have a particular, you know, I know there are some birth workers who are listening to this and people who know birth workers. So how can people work with you or yeah. So again, there's different layers. So if people want a copy of my book you can get it for £7.99 as a hard copy on £5 or $5 as an e-book. You know, it's a book that encourages people to have a nurturing plan for a nurturing postpartum and return a sort of traditional postpartum. It's aimed at parents and at birth workers. And I've created a course based on that book where I take people deeper into the exploration of that. And that's available on my website. It's called Why Postnatal Recovery Matters, like the book. And I have, so I do work one to one as a do-la and I do work one to one as a do-la mentor. And I do both online and face to face healing session that involve energy and drumming and both sorts of weird and wonderful tailor-made. And one of my favorite approach is I teach a postnatal shamanic massage called Closing the Bones which is traditionally aimed at new mothers but I've come to see it as a life transition support technique which allows people to feel held and safe and release whatever it is that they need to release. So it involves massage, but it involves wrapping with Mexican scarves or ribosomes. And it's kind of, yeah. And I add drumming and singing and sound healing to that process and Reiki to that process. And it can be done virtually. So not that one, it's the Reiki healing and the sound healing I can do virtually. But I'm in the process of making a virtual version of that course now because it's not something I felt I could do before the lockdown. And then people kept asking and asking and then I started seeing so many things online that people thought you couldn't do online. I was thinking, okay, you know, it's a bad time that I do that. And I'm thinking of trying something I've not done before which is offering people to buy the course before it's actually created. So I might experiment with that to see if again, the way to test how much interest there is. Sure, yeah, yeah. Well, your website is yourname.com. So it's Sophie, S-O-P-H-I-E, M-E-S-S-A-G-E-R.com. I'll have the link below so that people can go and find all your information there. So thank you so much, Sophie. Thanks for being in the Master Heart Group and for sharing your lessons today. Thank you.