 Wow, that was fast didn't really give a countdown or anything Yeah, it was like waiting waiting your life Equivalent of a stage manager who just goes No countdown nothing. Yeah. Oh By the way, you've been live for ten minutes. Thanks. Right. Oh by the way What's the name of the cat you're cat sitting? Sutro, oh like the tower Which is really named after the mountain is it sutra hill or mountain hill? No, the tower is only sutra. Mm-hmm. It's just on Twin Peaks. Yeah, there's not like a hill name Yeah, I don't know what sutra is named after it's a good point Sutra is named after the guy named sutra. Well, I yeah, it's a good thanks, Roger But you're thinking of you're thinking of sutra bass tom. That's oh, maybe that's it. Yeah. Yeah, that must be it It was named after Adolf sutra. Who was the mayor of San Francisco? Okay back in? He was the mayor in 1895 to 1897. I would bring a great tower Is what he said back then and eventually his words proved true It was the first German-American Jewish mayor Yeah, look at that back when that was actually progressive He was born in he was born in Prussia Prussia, he's my people So it could be right if it were today could be Russian Or Polish would be Russia. No, turn. He will he would be in North Rhine West Westphalia, Germany. Westphalia. No, okay Not colonizing grab That part of Prussia. That's the Russian bit the former Koenigsberg Mm-hmm. Let's see else The mountainy hills of Sutra Valley. There's Sutra Valley, right? I really wish that we had I'd never seen the baths in its hey-day That would have been cool. Yeah, you'd be very old by now if you were if you did that for sure I would be well that whole pretty that house Sutra baths area that that whole area was a whole lot cooler Yeah, there was when they had this was it was the park that they had along the way before they the children's playland Yeah, play land. Yeah. Yeah, that was all nice well, and even even in my time in San Francisco was cooler because they still had the The arcade museum there. Oh, yeah, the museum mechanic Say a mechanic peers the peer mm-hmm Which is fine, but you got more space there though. They keep losing things in that Sutra baths area Well, it's because people want to develop it Really want to develop it. Is that diner still above the baths up there? There's a restaurant. I don't know It's in the same place, but I don't know if it's the same restaurant. I should go there all the time No, above Cliff House Louise, I think it's called like up farther. Are you talking about the one that that's next to seal rock hotel That that that it's on its own. It's not it's not connected to the seal Well, there's still is a no, I don't know. I don't think it's Well, let's just do a show then we'll worry about that later. Okay, you ready? Yes Wow Daily tech news show is powered by its audience not outside organizations to find out more head to daily tech news show comm slash support Ladies gentlemen, this is the Daily Tech News from Monday September 19th 2016 on Tom Merritt very happy to have Ms. Veronica Belmont alongside for the conversations of the day. Are you V? I'm good. I'm getting over a little cold still, but I'm feeling okay. I'm feeling like Yes, I am on the mend. Oh good. Man, that cold's been ripping through San Franciscans Justin had it last week, too Oh, really? Yeah, a lot of people. I know I've been getting sick Well, stop it Tech news to talk about we're gonna talk about Interesting part of a Kevin Kelly book that you came across over the weekend that fascinated me as well and the idea of being an Endless newbie Which one person on Twitter responded to you like that's great. You mean I never stop learning That's a very positive way of looking at that We'll have all kinds of ways of looking at it uber's opening an office in Detroit Give you one autonomous guess as to why go pro announced its new karma drone with fold-up wings a backpack and a three-axis camera for Stabilization that'll be seven hundred ninety nine dollars or nine hundred ninety nine dollars with the new hero five Session or a thousand ninety nine dollars with the new hero five black installed now. Here are some more top stories HP office jet office jet pro and office jet pro X printers have started to report third-party ink cartridges as missing or defective I know The sound of the entire world The BBC reports that ink vendor 123 inked did not believe a firmware update had been issued since March Which would imply this was a timed situation that they put in the March firmware, but didn't activate until now HP says printers will work from third parties as long as they have an original HP security chip that they need to obtain from HP As long as they do that they don't have you don't have to buy your cartridge from HP 123 inked said it is in fact developed its own compatible chips for this firmware and they are in production And also said this happens all the time It's not just HP all manufacturers do this where they push firmware updates sometimes on purpose sometimes not It's hard to tell but they they change certain things about the way the printer works And it often breaks third-party ink cartridges. Oh, man We used to deal with this stuff on textile all the time. It was such a big hassle to We would like come up with ways that you could refill your ink cartridges without Getting them mad at you and this whole system. I think is so bunk and so annoying And this makes me very angry. I I guess printers Just aren't a growth enough Segment of the market for anyone to disrupt them But I feel like somebody could come in and say hey We're gonna sell you printers that are compatible easily easily plugged in with like really super simple drivers And and you can just put whatever ink you want in them and then we'll we don't care But but it would be a low-margin business in a business that isn't selling a lot of units right now totally Google announced a new travel planner app called trips Monday for Android and iOS trips can organize your plane tickets hotel reservations offer editorial guides and to make personalized Recommendations based on your Google history you can download information including maps and directions for offline use You know helping users find things to do on vacation seems to be a trend as Airbnb acquired Trio or trip for real a company out of Barcelona that offers activities in cities around the world to help you quote Experience a city like a local. Yeah, so a couple of stories breaking at the same time here involving the guide information Google's trips first of all you have to be comfortable letting Google mine your data Which if you have enough Google information in your Gmail account, it's probably already mined So I imagine this isn't going to make it worse if you let trips Have access to it and that's how it's going to be able to tell your trips So I I have an upcoming trip in October I launched trips it found that email and automatically created that trip But it's not as nicely laid out as tripped for the professional traveler But what it does that trip it doesn't do is says hey since you're gonna be in this area here are some food Recommendations I can make an itinerary for you if you want to see some cool sites And Airbnb is trying to provide that same thing where they're like hey when you go and you stay in someone's house The idea is you're not just getting a hotel view. You're not just seeing all the same things other tourists do So we're going to use trip for real which they had already partnered with to provide a more local view on where you're visiting And this makes sense too because I mean Gmail has been pulling in airline reservations and and trip related data Kind of putting it to the top of your inbox for a long time now So, you know, they've they've been working with this information already within Their own confines of Gmail so thinking about at our calendar even so, you know, putting it into a separate app makes a lot of sense as well Yeah, I would what having just got back from a trip not too long ago You guys went to Italy Would you have liked to have more of this kind of automatic guidance for you to say like hey Here's some cool things to do here's some things the locals do you might not know about etc Well, you know, I don't really go without a plan typically So I think that it would have been nice to have but not an absolute necessity to have So yeah, I think it would have been nice information to to to have if I was going someplace without a trip plan already That I had already plotted out for a long time I think food recommendations might be good because I don't always plan all of those out ahead of time on a trip and Definitely trans transit information like if this could do a really good job of saying alright We see that you've got this these three things on your plan Here's what you need to know here here the trains that you need to catch and the times etc Or maybe it's better to take a cab from here to here because it's faster and then you know that That could be super handy and just being able to have downloaded things to your phone that your device in an app or wherever is Oh, yeah maps and directions Huge different for us on our trip difference. Yeah, yeah When we went to Italy a couple years ago having offline maps was essential It was a little less of an issue for me on this most recent trip to Japan and Korea But could have come in handy if if if I had planned for it Actually, I think the Google Maps had downloaded some things in advance So it ended up being pretty handy as well and ubiquitous data is getting more and more But even but when you travel you have to deal with that, you know, unless you've got T-Mobile or project fire or something Our report from Bloomberg notes sources say Samsung rushed the launch of the Samsung Galaxy Note 7 in order to take advantage of what was Expected to be a lack of compelling features from the upcoming iPhone The United States product commission said the faulty batteries were slightly too big for the compartment Which put pressure on the plates within the battery cells causing them to short circuit now a lot of people including this Bloomberg Article are saying and so this these must be related They they didn't properly create the size of the battery or test it well enough To be able to catch this because they were in a rush It's hard to say if that's true or not a lot of the things in this Bloomberg article Have to do with just the culture of how this is done at launch people stay long hours stay overnight Etc. Stakes happen. Yeah, I mean they might have happened anyway It's hard to say that trying to accelerate the launch by a couple weeks to beat the iPhone is the thing that caused this battery flaw Especially when the batteries made by Amperex Don't appear to have the flaw, but the batteries made by Samsung SDI do it seem yeah I don't know if I buy this because those kinds of decisions are made a long time in advance Like getting a battery supply chain like figuring out the dimensions of the product I don't feel like those are short-term decisions based on another product's launch, but I guess I can't really say that for sure Well, no, I think you're absolutely right I think if there were truth to this it would be that a mistake in the sizing was made like the dimensions were right But maybe the yield made them a couple millimeters bigger than they needed to be or even a millimeter bigger You know a small amount bigger and that wasn't caught in testing because the testing was rushed Right, but I mean that would be the only argument I could think of it's it's yeah Probably definitely on the on the quality control side of things something something got ignored or missed Yeah, a Twitter launch new rules about character counts in its post finally. It's live. I'm so excited starting Monday those polls and quoted tweets no longer count against your 140 character max Testing an option that omits the username of a person you're replying to from the character count only the person who sent the original tweet Is exempt though? I haven't seen that one Play out yet in person and apparently it's you hit reply and the person you're replying to will know will no longer show up In the body in the text field it will show up separated above That's gonna be a little odd to see but not having images videos polls and quote tweets count Against the 140 character max is yes, it's extremely welcome. I can't wait. I can't wait for this I don't know how long it's gonna take for some of the third-body third body third party It's Monday third-party apps to take advantage of this But hopefully pretty quickly because I'm a tweet bot fan myself and I would love to have all this working in tweet bot right off the bat It is a little confusing to keep track of what counts and what doesn't but there is a counter Going on so you can see it as you type. I kind of wish they would just exempted links as well I know I don't they do that they do a character limit like no matter how long your link is it only counts I can't remember exactly how much like a bitly size. Yeah, it only counts a certain amount every time It's a standard length, but yeah, the links link should not count on this And if I'm replying to four or five people why does only the first person count that know or get exempted We not wait what wait what really if I understand it, right? And I'm willing to be corrected if I've misread this only the first person you reply to is exempted Any other replies and they're still count against your character count bologna bologna. I'm mad again Doesn't take much to make someone mad at Twitter It's true, but yeah, I think this is even so a step in the right direction I'd literally had just read only the person who sent the original tweet is exempt though Wait, but that no, that's not the same thing. That's not that's right That's the reply only the original person who sent the original tweet is exempt from your That's yeah, and and yeah another J. Martin points out in our chat room. It's a spamming restriction You could just put an endless number of at replies in there and somebody would so there does need to be a limit on that But when I'm replying to three people Suddenly two people doesn't it doesn't matter. It's still better than it is now I'll say that Salesforce announced the launch of an artificial intelligence platform which they called Einstein Because it's smart They launched that on Saturday will be implemented into its cloud services company also announced the creation of a Salesforce Research unit for deep learning natural language processing and computer vision. They acquired a company called MetaMind earlier this year and Richard Soaker from MetaMind is now going to be the chief scientist for a Salesforce research This AI is going to do things in multiple products for Salesforce from Evaluate where you are in a relationship with a customer so they may say oh looks like you're getting pretty close to a sale here To kind of urge you to prioritize that They'll do things like what Gmail has been doing where they'll Suggest responses that they think might get the the result that you're looking for It's all assistance stuff though. It's not the kind of AI where it will like handle the sale for you In due time in due time. I'm sure now. This is pretty neat you know Salesforce obviously has a huge handle on on that market and Adding this is probably only going to elevate them even further. I would imagine But I love stuff where it like suggests Suggest titles for emails or or things like you know MailChimp kind of does that a little bit, too But not using AI But yeah, this is this is very cool. It's nice to see different Different ways that AI is being used in different markets and even for customers who are shopping through like the cloud The cloud framework for for shopping your services Though they can be displayed different things based on their needs according to the AI So it's very adaptive and Salesforce trying to steal the thunder of Oracle a little bit as Oracle has its open-world conference and is announcing its own competitor to Amazon web services in the cloud and And buying a security service for cross-platform Securing of things like API's and working across clouds Salesforce is like great. Yeah things that other people have done We're down the road doing AI and and now Trying to appear like they're competing with Google and Facebook and others in the machine learning realm Steven Hackett of the 512 pixels block reported his iPhone 7 plus started making a hissing noise when under computing strain Tech crunches Daryl ether Etherington also had the same experience The hissing was not however coming from the speakers Apple told Hackett to return his phone to an Apple store for replacement and Renee Ritchie at I more found the sound is made by the last two Generations of iPhone all recent iPads recent Macs and even some routers that he tried Speculation abounds as to whether it's a cooling system or coil noise coil noise or coil wine Happens when electrical components reach a resonant frequency that causes the circuit to vibrate My guess it's the ghost of the headphone jack Yeah, I think you're probably right. It's probably the headphone jack hissing at you But the coil noise coil wine thing seems to be the accepted explanation for this I never heard of this a lot of people are saying you just never noticed it before maybe there's something In the way the iPhone 7 works that makes it more noticeable Maybe the processors a little closer to the back Renee Ritchie thought he could detect it a little easier But then he said when he really like measured the noise across different devices, it wasn't appreciably louder I Have a feeling there's a part of this that is just the human mind's willingness to find something wrong with a new phone release And this is it we have his gate now I'm my phone scraped so far Although I'd still miss the headphone jack I did the thing where I got in the elevator the first day pulled out my phone pulled out my headphones looked at them and went oh Man And you didn't have your adapter with you. It's like fish around for it in my backpack. Yeah So my wife It seems like the hiss only comes when this when the phone is doing intense Calculation which for most people is only when it's setting up for the first time and downloading a bunch of data Did you happen you didn't happen to notice anything like that? I did not know yeah Gotta listen close To your iPhone it did get incredibly hot. Yeah, it probably was hissing you probably just didn't hear it And maybe it's the difference between people having that thing sitting on its back versus sitting face down Maybe for some reason Daryl Etherington and Stephen Hackett had it face down and so they were able to hear that Hear that more. I don't know But yeah, it's it's if you were waiting for the shoe to drop on on what the dash gate would be for the iPhone 7 Sounds like we we finally found there you go Thanks to all those who participate in our subreddit You can submit stories and vote on them at Daily Tech news show dot reddit.com and that is a look at the top stories So over the weekend Veronica came across the following passage in Kevin Kelly's book the inevitable Understanding the 12 technological forces that will shape our future I'll read the passage although you you did a cool thing and posted the audible clip Of the audiobook which I kind of loved Technologies that will dominate life 30 years from now have not yet been invented I think we can probably all agree with that I mean just having lived through the past five years and smartphones and iPads etc Anyway, so naturally you'll be a newbie to these new technologies Secondly because the new technology requires endless upgrades you will remain in the newbie state Third because the cycle of obsolescence is accelerating the average lifespan of a phone app is a mere 30 days You won't have time to master anything before it is displaced. So you will remain in newbie mode forever You know that what do you think that name Veronica? I don't want to be in and I I don't feel like I'm there I already rue the day that I get old enough that I just can't wrap my head around this stuff anymore because it comes to all Of us right at a certain point It just becomes really hard to fit your brain into new ways of thinking and what Kevin Kelly is saying is Doesn't matter how old you are that this is going to happen I already feel like I'm in a constant state also of feature missing Which is not a thing that Kevin Kelly talks about, but I think is is Out of us where you feel pretty good about an app or device you're using But I always feel like there's some killer features that I just haven't figured out yet or don't know what they are I'm like, oh if I only knew how to do this thing This would be amazing and I'm sure there's a way to do that I just don't know what it is that desire is what causes that endless upgrade cycle though because the people working on The app also feel that way and they're like well We need to roll out this new feature because we think this is that one feature that Veronica's been waiting for in the meantime though They change the way the thing works I mean just colors of apps throw me off at my age Freakin Nike plus has been orange-ish red my entire life Well, you know for the three years that I've had the app and they changed it to black and green and I literally Couldn't find it for the first couple weeks because I my brain was just trained to look for that Color now. We also have apps that are constantly moving things around changing how they work I threw this out in our slack and Troy made a really good part point He said really what you want to teach people are patterns that are ubiquitous across different scenarios This is encouraged by all major OS developers file edit window control saves control P for print, etc He's arguing and he had a lot more to say in our slack that if you design the UX right and the metaphors are there Things are only getting easier to use as you have better control with touch screens as you have voice Interaction it should overcome the fact that these things work in a different kind of way because you can present them in a way That's familiar to people. Okay, so that that is true. I agree with that statement I think in a way though that kind of stifles creativity and innovation For example, I work in the bot space the bots that we create live on slack However slack as the platform and all the different bots we haven't come to that Standardization yet of features across bots. There's no consistent really onboarding practice or or list of of commands There's no command line for bots yet So there's no way to control all of them That's consistent across the entire platform and then you get bots on many different kinds of platforms like Facebook Messenger for example or we chat or any number of different chat platforms out There actually I think we chat is the one that's not We chat has that never mind, but you know what I'm talking about like different chat platforms But even those bots while you assume that all of them are going to respond to hello or help Not all of them are going to have consistent commands across even that So there's still always this like as we get better at creating software We still haven't figured out that standardization process so and if you get stuck into that same loop of Every single what every single app or every single piece of software has file or edit or Control P to print then you get locked down into that sameness and you don't have room to really innovate So I think you know that that's part of the problem But it's also good in a way that we're constantly figuring out new ways of interacting with Software and with programs and with bots and with all these new technologies that kind of inform our day-to-day life and habits Yeah, it's the hamburger menu war Right. We taught everyone what the little hamburger menu means and if you don't I mean it's the three-line Yeah, that you click and then more menu options come down and and lots of UX designers rail against that because It becomes a dumping ground For things and it makes it harder to use because even though people know what it means They don't know what they'll find there because it couldn't be anything, right? And so so there's there's definitely a push for for interface design to be readily accessible Obviously, we were always talking about natural language processing Salesforce just talking about researching that today Which would theoretically Eliminate all of these issues because you just say what you want and the AI would interpret it and understand it And at least and at worst have to ask you a follow-up question like oh, do you do you mean? Dog as in the pet or dog as in something that isn't very good, right? Right clarifications or something That's the ideal. I think what Kevin Kelly is pointing out though is there's a race between that getting good enough and Technology Surpassing it to be like well, you won't even know what to ask even if it can understand what you're saying You might not understand all of the things this is technology is capable of this Is why it is so crucial to have good onboarding practices That way someone who is a complete Luddite and someone who is a technological genius They get the same information and it makes it clear to both these different sets You have to have a set of onboarding instructions that anybody can understand and digest and then continue that practice Across new feature launches So you always have a way of alerting the user to a new way of doing things or a new Ability that they can now have within the app or program So, you know, it's just it's good design practice. It's good product practice Like but not everybody is going to have that capability And I would assume even Kevin Kelly would probably think it's going to be a long time Before the length of time it would take to bring you on board and teach you features Would be longer than the acceleration than the then the upgrade process that would be a pretty crazy upgrade process Although it's not entirely inconceivable But we will be in a constant state of having to learn and like you said one of the people Responding to you on Twitter said that's great. I want to always be learning But do you always want to have to be learning in other words? There's a difference between learning about new cultures and expanding ideas of philosophy versus like learning the capabilities of something Constantly, which is just a means to the utility rather than a means to understanding I prefer a very, you know iterative process where where things come in small doses So you don't have to really expend a ton of brainwaves in order to digest the new information You're just like, oh this does this now like even got even Instagram changing its icon. We everybody made a big stink about that But you know For a couple weeks after it changed. Yeah, absolutely And that's not even really what we're talking about what we're talking about is now Did you know that you can you can just think ride and if you've set things up properly the self-driving car will arrive You have to think it the right way You know or something where it's like well, I didn't know I could do that And I don't know how to properly do it and I need to learn that And like Instagram didn't tell me in any way that I can now, you know Zoom in on photos by by pinching and squeezing. Yeah, I Just heard about that from the internet Maybe I would have known that if I had read the release notes That's another way of getting information, but otherwise release notes. Nobody does that It's fair to admit you could have learned it that way not really what most people are going to do though If you're talking about broad social behavior And I guess we as users the other thing we could do is say well I'm just gonna hold on to the things that work right and and Len Peralta has talked to us before about how He still uses an older version One of the adobe products and I don't want to say which one can get it wrong because he knows how it works And it does what he needs to do and so that's why he hasn't adopted the creative cloud and And it's him holding the line against being forced to constantly upgrade when things become cloud services Which more and more they are it becomes harder to resist Their changes of features and you're kind of forced on to a treadmill of having to keep up with the different ways they work indeed well Maybe open-source software is a solution to that maybe there'll be a backlash Against man. Yes, it has open-source software is definitely easier for for everybody to pick up Well, but it could it can stay it can stay constant because the community wants that and then Force companies to then say oh we need to respond to that never never gets better. Okay. Yeah Well, it's better at a pace that people appreciate Okay versus versus forcing them to keep running ahead. I don't know I'm trying here. I'm trying. I know you all right Let's finish up with a message of the day from Joe the pilot who said hey there You were spot-on or your guest was in the aircraft fire. You can see versus fire You can't Discussion we are taught and I think he means his pilots We are taught you get a median time of 13 minutes to get every last person off the plane before they are overwhelmed with smoke That's 13 minutes from the start of a fire If you can't see the fire for the first three minutes say because it's in a cargo hold You lose that time plus if you can see that fire FAs are taught to suppress the fire My knowledge lacks here because I don't watch the video every year. There's the video that they watch It's 10 minutes long. God bless you if you watch it as you can imagine My job is to point down attain a maximum rate of descent land nearest the suitable anything and the book says consider landing off airport Like a highway from 34,000 feet I can get to about 4,000 if per minute average without breaking the airplane Then I have to slow the plane down to 330 knots or so and something less suicidal of a pitch altitude to land on anything firm It's ugly and time is not your friend. Keep in mind We are all training hard and working hard to make sure everyone makes it out alive and uninjured So all of this is meant to point out. It's a complicated process They don't have a lot of time to deal with any flame and obviously that's why they don't want anything that would catch on fire In the cargo hold because it's harder to detect in the little amount of time that they have left scary Yeah, also a really good reason for you not to bring anything onto a plane like a note 7 that Could even have the remote chance of causing a problem. Mm-hmm. Oh, it's terrifying. Yeah No, absolutely now in practice. We've had one note 7 I don't want to say it's a note 7 because I didn't look close enough of the story, but we had one Battery catch fire on a plane recently and it was put out It was it was the fire was suppressed quickly, but the fact that even one happened is incredibly frightened. Nope That's a nope not interested in that Leslie. Nope all over that Well, thank you Veronica Belmont for joining us at Oz always what you got to tell folks about this week Not much yeah, you can check out the project. I'm working at grow bot at grow bot. I owe And of course sorden laser always at sorden laser comm we're in the middle of a great pick that Tom Picked for us for September What's the name of it again a fire upon the deep by Fire upon the deep What not to get all sorden laser on folks But one of the things I'm most impressed reading this book so far is how Modern it feels and it was written in the early 90s. Yeah, no, it's heat. It's great It's really talking about touch screens And a lot and that I catch myself thinking like oh, yeah, you know cuz touch screens That's a that's a thing that we all use and I have to realize like touch screens We're not really a thing that anybody really used a lot Inevitable technology Kevin Kelly might say so yeah, maybe it was and maybe Werner knew that so anyway It's a it's a great book And we won't get into all the things about it but technologies and alien civilizations and alien intelligences and AI's Abound in a fire upon the deep which is what we're reading for sorden laser So check that out with Veronica and myself sword and laser calm Thank you to all the folks who support this show directly We only use you as a source of funding for the show so we appreciate every penny That you are able to use or even if it's word of mouth or just buying things in the store You can find all the ways to support us a daily tech news show comm slash support We're gonna be having our quarterly analyst call up soon We'll let you know more about that But if you'd like to get the update when it's happening and take advantage of some reworked rewards That we'll be talking about head to patreon.com slash DTNS Of course if you want the weekly tech views the the most hilarious look at the weekend tech ever on a blog Check out Mike ranger's column weekly tech views at daily tech news show comm as well Our email address is feedback at daily tech news show comm you can catch the show live Monday through Friday 4 30 p.m. Eastern at alpha radio comm and diamond club TV and visit our website daily tech news show comm back tomorrow with Patrick Beja talk to you then Part of the frog pants network get more at frog pants comm Strike it rich says Werner Vingy makes a mean ginger ale That's a different Well, good show pick for title. What's your pick? I think ghost in the cell is is my pick It's like a ghost in the shell joke. Yeah. Yeah ghost in the cell That's pretty good. I also like a new Bavall apps master of none, but ghost in the cell is like simple and like Very punny. Yeah pretty pretty perfect What do you think Roger? Sure, I like new Bavall apps master of none. I think It's more in in line with the discussion time, but that's me Yeah, I can't decide Tom you're gonna have to be the deciding vote You got a break off the Kit Kat. Is it one bar two bars? All right? If if lag cooperates, I'm still levelating get in there and vote live live viewers showbot.tv or live listeners I Will say the whole argument about whether or not your eternal noob I mean it does present evidence about learning the the actual The actual that's what's the best way the like a stronger understanding of Whatever it is you're trying to do the reason why I'm saying that it's because I'm thinking back to when Apple released Final Cut X 10 and everyone just hated it because it had an entirely new metaphor for running everything into the timeline and how you edit and It put off a lot of people that we basically jumped onto photo or photoshop premiere pro The the constant feature Yeah, like if it if it's too wildly different, you know for especially for people who depend on it for their livelihood They're probably gonna stick with something that it may not be, you know It doesn't have to be exactly the same it just has to be what you know what I think was it Matt hurry up Hurry up and pick guys so I can leave We pick a noob of us master of none Sure, sure. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thanks Veronica. Bye. Sorry day. I'm still I've still let votes come in So we'll see. We'll wait, but I was when I was just saying it's like like understanding And this is what I was taught is like Learning the tools important but understanding and mastering The the actual thing you're trying to do and why things work the way they do is more important Because the tools will always change and this is what I was taught in desktop video editing back in 1998. Oh, yeah Is that these tools with these tools are gonna constantly change what you're gonna be using ten years or not It's a little nothing like this And you know for the most part she was right and you know But the the the same the same considerations you put in how you edit why you edit why you do things the way you do What an insert point is what makes a good edit flow. Yeah, exactly that stuff. Yeah, I learned on a cuts only Sony, you know, three-quarter inch editing bay but those concepts still apply in final cut and I think that's what I was getting at regarding This isn't the kind of ongoing learning that I like right when the guy said all the constantly be learning stuff That's great. It's like yeah learning the concepts of editing is great Constantly having to learn a new tool to fit those concepts is less great to me I mean the best analogy I can think of is Everyone understands how a car generally drives Doesn't matter what make or whether you drive a SUV or minivan or a car steering wheel you got pedals if it's a clutch You have a clutch pedal But if you know a company says, you know, we got a better way of driving instead of this You're just gonna have these two paddles on the dashboard You raise the right one if you want to steer the car to the right You raise the one on the left if you want to steer the car to left and then instead of having foot pedals for Or actually let's do it like they do in planes you steer with your feet and you run the gas with your arm So you turn to the left you press the left pedal you turn to the right press the right pedal Mm-hmm, then you do you have a little throttle on the right? It's just like oh well no because I it's more comfortable and safer for everyone if I stick with something that Everyone is at least familiar with I don't know some of it. I Wanted to jump in but you guys had a really good conversation going It's like I understand the need for innovation, but at some point innovation can also be a distraction to the actual Task or or what you want to do at hand Like you know vating innovating because you want something that looks new and different But doesn't necessarily offer you an enhanced or improved Methodology to get something done doesn't really offer too much. No, I agree I think though what happens when the innovation can proceed fast and Offer capabilities that are worth it Where it's not just inner innovating to add something new, but it's adding something that is is is a is a legitimate Advance, but we're doing it so fast that you can't keep up, you know I Can understand that point of view, but also I'm one of those people that says I've Partially because you know coming in from working video You tend to stick with equipment and gear and software that you're familiar with because even though as new stuff Cons on the pipeline it may or may not pan out Like like I would be one of those people sick I'll let other yeah, but I think that I think you're sidestepping What I'm trying to say which is like what if what if you're you even look at this and you're like, oh, yeah No, that's a thing that really makes it easier to edit in your example But they keep changing things so fast. It's it's hard to learn how to take advantage of them And it's it's hard for me to come up with an example of that for video editing but well, I mean I yeah, I understand and Like the military had this problem a long time ago, and they still do That they kept like hey, there's a new technology that we can find a better way to identify and locate and kill someone And it was like so how do we but how do we implement this new amazing with g-wiz gizmo or? Technology into what we already have that makes sense because now you have to build entire infrastructure around this new tool That that does what it does, but at the same. I don't know. Yeah Well, I know these are all good points and and and I think they're they're parallel points Which is yeah coming up with new capabilities doesn't mean you can take advantage of them coming up with new capabilities Doesn't mean the capabilities are actually that helpful And those are fair points too, but I guess what I'm pushing down to is like let's just assume that they are though Let's assume that cuz cuz there are plenty of examples of capabilities that are implemented So they can be taken advantage of and are worth it and if those start coming faster and faster How do we keep up? You know, I honestly think Society will kind of plateau at a point when the even as technology new innovation screws Some a majority of industry or not the industry But a industry or whatever she will my plateau just because it's if it's if it costs If it costs money for you to keep keeping up with new technology at some point The the cost outweigh the benefits right even if it's a brand new technology. What if it doesn't but you know What if it gets endlessly cheaper I Know I mean I guess what I'm saying is what if the barrier ends up just being our ability to learn it And I think that's what Kevin Kelly is suggesting here And I think that's fascinating What if all these other things that we rely on right your brain goes there because your brain's like well I won't have to deal with it me me because cost will be the problem or actual usefulness will be the problem or you know This or that but what happens if though none of those are what if we get so good at it? It's like these are low-cost capabilities. They're all very useful But you learning how to take advantage of them is now the gating factor Well, then I would say what you at least what you guys are alluding to it or it goes back to user interface I mean even if if if if it's difficult to keep up with it Then it's a difficult then it's I don't think it necessarily means this is not say the innovation that particular innovation isn't Isn't good. It could very well be good. But if it if it proves difficult for people to learn Then is it a benefit? Outright, I mean, would you just hire a group of people to constantly learn? I mean would that be a separate it's I think maybe the the cul-de-sac we put ourselves in is thinking of it as a Monolithic Situation like editing right because because you're absolutely right like well if it's too hard to take advantage of Then it's really not a good innovation. I think that's absolutely fair But what if it's not that what if it's like you don't even need to edit video anymore because you use this other thing And wrapping your head about that is what is the problem like Twitter when Twitter first came along a lot of people had a hard time Like why would I do that? What's the benefit? What if those kinds of advancements are what's happening faster and faster? To where the people who put in the time to figure them out benefit greatly but those of us who don't are left behind and and and life is less productive and we're difficult and I would say that At some point and this is this is part of being on the bleeding edge that you Eventually keep leapfrogging to the point where a you get exhausted be People lose interest. It's like what's the point? I mean Psychologically people will have to will basically say like what's the point of learning this new amazing app If I know in two years time, there's gonna be a much better one That's totally gonna supersede what's gonna look like the people who do learn the new one pass you by Well, then but you can leapfrog them with the next one, right? And then it'll be unless you're so far behind That I honestly, you know, I honestly don't believe I think people use that But the thing is it's it really is a leapfrog race that you can learn one And you might miss the next generation or whatever But that's where Kevin Kelly's premise comes in is like those are so fast That even that if you learn one you now are two generations behind because you took the time to learn it and so And my argument is at that point if it comes out that past it just becomes noise and people grow disinterested It's like why would I invest the time? I think it's a little bit of a moot point because of AI and And I this is not a very well-formed thought but my feeling is Those problems with taking up technology Might be covered by the technology and this goes a little bit to what Veronica was talking about with onboarding By the technology figuring it out for us and then the question comes are the concepts of what we're doing Something we can keep it keep up with and or do you have to have a young mind to to embrace them? I mean I it definitely was easier for me to understand websites and geocities Then it was to figure out Twitter But it was still easier for me to figure out the importance and the usefulness of Twitter Then it was for me to figure out snapchat But I finally got there with all of it and and you can dismiss all of these is like none of them are really that useful But they are or they wouldn't be as big as they are And and so what is that next thing that comes along where I'm just like I just don't get it I don't get how to use it and I know people who are that way about snapchat And I knew people who that way about Twitter. They're like, you know what? I'm not gonna bother because I just don't understand this and are they left behind in a way that makes their lives Significantly worse. No, but they are missing a tool and the more of those that you miss The the less you can do in those particular areas True, but I mean one could bring up the argument. It's like do you really need all those tools? Well, no, but it limits what you can do That's all if you have fewer tools that are available then License it limits me from running an air certainly But could you get I mean, yeah, now you're just going in a different direction though I you make choices about what areas you want to be in I'm saying you want to be a pilot But looking at a pilot's license examination just makes you go forget it. I'm just not gonna I'm gonna rule that out Even if it's something I want part of it is You know, I don't know it's Part of it is kind of I would say we're choosing noob master of none Yay, I'm sorry. You were you were saying I just want to make sure that got out. I You know and I wouldn't even say it's an age thing because I know plenty of people who are younger than me who are totally Like what what the hell do I do with Twitter? Yeah, but that's a little facetious like yeah Of course, you can always find people at all ages But I I could say from observing others and personal preference that in general in some well You become less able to wrap your head around new concepts as you get old. It's just a factor of aging Doesn't mean it's impossible. No young people always get stuff But but overall that you do you do you dispute that? You know, it's I I will say this it's Yeah, I am very I already it may very well be chronological age I still think it's just a level of Information you previously have if you gave a kid if you gave a kid a rotary phone today and told them to to to call Someone would they know automatically how to use it or would you have to give them a little? Yeah, yeah, yes, they could figure it out But that's not my point that that's stacking the deck against the kid because you're picking something that older people already know about It's new concepts that when you're younger you pick up faster. You just do I don't know We'll have to well, we'll have a lunky lengthy discussion about it. I'm so tired it old I think it's it's where It's gonna be long it's gonna be long arduous and it's gonna be a giant circular argument in the yeah As always But and and I'm all and we are published too so thanks everybody for watching and listening It's good to be back for another week and we will be back tomorrow with Patrick Beja Talk to you then