 Hey guys, Drew here, thatanxietyguide.com back for part two with my friend Holly from Mallorca. What's up, Holly? Hey, how's it going? All right, I'm going to come in a different day to the last video. I'm going to break the fourth wall immediately. We just finished part one. Holly took her hat off, changed her hair. I did nothing. So, yes. We finished, we recorded the first one like seven minutes ago, so we're just doing these back to back. Today we're going to talk about, today we're talking, this is part two of a video, that you need to watch part one. So I'll link that wherever you're watching this. I'll make sure there's a link. Make sure that you see part one first, and we are not talking to people who suffer from panic disorder and agoraphobia and those sort of things. We are talking to people around the people, yes, their friends, family, significant others, husbands, wives, spouses, siblings, BFFs, all that stuff. So if you're watching with your loved one or your friend who's got this problem, make sure you guys watch the first one first and then come back and watch this one. So now that we spent 25 minutes talking about what this problem is and trying to explain to the people around the people, the friends and family what it is, how they need to think about it and like what lies ahead. Now let's talk about what can you actually do when you are living with or in some sort of life relationship with a person who has panic disorder, agoraphobia, can't leave their house, can't go to work, can't be alone, need you to be with them all the time, that sort of stuff is having panic attacks is afraid of that. What can you do? Yeah. So, well, it's very important to realize this as well is that the person who is suffering really at the end of the day is the only person that can get themselves better. But the you as the people around that person, you can really help them. You won't be like the responsibility isn't on you. It's on the sufferer, but that you can be helpful. And I guess you wouldn't want to be helpful if you care about that person. Right. Yeah, that's true. So you cannot. There are many people walking the earth that for the best of reasons, because they love this person that they have, they care about this person, they want to fix it. Like there are fixers out there. And if you're watching and you're a fixer, you're going to have to get over that because this is not your thing to fix. Yeah. You can be the person who is dealing with the disorder can fix this and they will and they can because millions and millions of people do it all the time. Holly and I did it too. And if you watch part one, we told her little stories. So that's a good point is it's on them. Your job now is to become a supporter, a cheerleader, a motivator, a role model in certain instances. And what are the biggest and we'll talk a little bit about, you know, what you can do just in general and also what you can do when that person does experience a crisis, a panic attack, what they think is a crisis, an anxiety spike, a panic attack, whatever it is. We'll talk about that too. But in general, let's talk about what do you think? Like let's give us some basic guidelines here. Patience, we talked about that, that this is not a short process. Yeah, it's definitely not a short process. It's not as if like as soon as they start doing this thing where they go towards the fear or go towards the anxiety because this is what we're going to be saying, this is what we're saying that they have to do is that they have to, you know, like not run from the fear and try and break the fear by show that they're not afraid. So it's not like as soon as they start doing this, that they're just going to like get better. It can really take a long time. Some people, it might be really quick, but like some people, it can take a long time because the brain has to relearn its responses to things. And that takes a lot of practice. It's like being a concept pianist, you know, you can't just be like, well, I've learnt my C scale and now why can't I play Flight of the Bumblebee? It's like, you can have to sit there and play it over and over and over again until in the end, your brain knows just how to do it without any hesitation about it, you know, like it's the same sort of thing. It really, really, really is. It really is about practice. Yeah, that's true. And everybody's a little bit different. So in that case, the everybody's different thing does apply. Some people are just naturally fast learners and adapters. And I think you have to understand, too, that somebody, that person's personality does play a role in this to a certain extent. Like if your special person is more aggressive and tends to be a little bit more forward and accepts a challenge and is a little bit more bold, they tend to go a little faster because those people are more likely to say, all right, I'm going to do this. I'm going to go into the fear. They'll show more courage because courage is part of this in a big way. So you need it's a huge part of this. So you have to understand that your your special person here, your friend or whoever it is, is has to start to find that courage. And we start from the premise that we all are courageous. Like they will think that they're not. But part of your job is to remind them sometimes like you came from the factory with all the courage that you need in there. So some people already know that and they can tap into it and go. And some people have to like, they don't think they have it. So they have to prove that to themselves first and they might go a little slower. So yeah, yeah, yeah. But they're learning new skills that people who might have a hard time like ditching their own beliefs, like they're going to have to learn to like not trust themselves and to put their trust in kind of like the collective of everybody else because they're going to have to model their behavior on what everyone else thinks is appropriate things to worry about and what isn't like you have when when they're going like, oh, but, you know, what if I've got it at the minute, we're looking to buy a house and I like being on the ground floor. I'm really weird about heights and we looked flat and it's amazing. But it's got a balcony and I'm like, but what if misty climbs over and falls down? It's just like, how many people with kids do you think like live on balcony and the heights and everything? And I'm happy to realize it's not the thing. It's me. Everyone else is fine about it. Did I mean I'm like, it's me, isn't it? It's me. So I have to learn to ditch that fear because it is actually irrational and I have to learn not model everything in our lives around this kind of weird irrational fear. That's a weird example. But like, no, but it applies, I think to a certain extent. Yeah. So so your your special person is has to do that. And because imagine what's the almost everything they're thinking about, they have to ditch that because they're going to stream in what they're thinking like, oh, you had that thing where you didn't want to drink the milk first because you thought it was poisoned. But if it was poisoned, right? I had that as well. And I had to ditch that. I had to say like, this is this is ridiculous. And so in a way, like, and the reason why they don't, they will be resistant to ditching those those thoughts or hanging. They'll hang on to their old habits is they truly believe that it's they're keeping them safe. So all you want them to do is walk down the block and mail a letter or walk down the block and pick up your daughter from the bus stop. That's all you want them to do. But to them and their brain, especially in the beginning, they're thinking like, you are sending me to certain death and they believe that. So what's what's easier? Like, let me go and walk down the block to certain death or let me hang on to the belief that if I just find the right herb or pill or do something different or keep going to the doctor to look for something, they want something to be physically wrong so they could just fix it and this will all go away. That sounds a lot easier than walking to certain death, which they think they're doing. So just be patient because some people can do that faster and some people cannot. We're not, I think we're not talking, it's probably safe to say we're not, not usually to talk about years here. Some people see really fast progress in a matter of weeks. Not perfect. No one goes back to normal in weeks, but like I was pretty fast once I got my acting gear, but then some people will take months and months and months, but that's okay. It is, it is what it is. I mean, I suffered 20 years and once I realized that last, I'd sort of worked on other bits, but not the final, like not this, I hadn't really realized this. And so when I realized it, I'd say within six months I was completely better after 20 years. Yeah, that sounds about right. That sounds right. I would say that I think somebody asked me and I said, within six or eight months I was 75% normal. And the other 25% were just things that I had to intentionally try to do because I didn't need to fly to Los Angeles that day. So like, how do I tackle that if I don't need to do it? But so that's- Even now I'm still sort of unraveling little bits, like the balcony thing. Right, right. You know, so stuff may linger for a long time, but life gets back to pretty normal relatively quickly within six, eight months. Most people are pretty far down the road. Some people will take longer. So anyway, patience, number one principle for the people around the people is you gotta be patient with your person. And if we're gonna say that, let's talk about that thing where the sufferer themselves. So now we're talking to you, like agoraphobic person or panicked sort of person. You have to commit to doing this work. So we're now asking your husband, your wife, your partner, whoever to be a supporter and a cheerleader and be patient with you and understand what you're going through. So in return, you have to buy into your part of the deal, which is to say, okay, I am keeping myself this way. I'm not really in any danger. I don't have a horrible disease and I need to do hard things now to retrain my brain to get my life back. And you have to commit to doing that work. So- Even if you don't believe it, just do it. Just do it, just do it. Do it. And if you're watching us like- Probably, it's okay. Yeah, if you found us on YouTube or whatever and you are not in that Facebook discussion group, get in it, I'll have a link and you will see stories every single day. I'm talking to both of you now, a panic attack person and husband and wife. Like you will see stories every single day in that group which Holly and I are both super proud of, of somebody who says they have been, like one person in particular yesterday was outstanding. Five months of, I can't do this, this is horrible. This is terrible. I can't stand up. I can't get out of bed. This is horrible. I don't know what I'm gonna do. I'm at my wit's end, I can't do this anymore. And yesterday was, I did it, like I get it. And she was suddenly like, I'm rising above my anxiety symptoms and so get motivation and inspiration from there. And so now let's talk about that. So now you have to be patient. The sufferer has to live up to their end of the bargain. And I think, so let's talk back to the people around the people, let's talk about cheerleading and inspiring and motivating to a certain extent. Like when is it time, when do you think it's time to be a cheerleader and a motivator to say, you know what? I need you to get off the sofa and do this. Remember what you have to do. Let's do this thing and I'm gonna root you on and be waiting for you when you come back in the door and we're gonna celebrate. So when is that time? And that is very different. That is very different to being an enabler where you're being in your view, you might be this person around the person that's going like, oh, you know, I know that you're having a really hard time and you feel really awful. So don't worry, I'll take the kids to school today because you're feeling like you're having you have really bad anxiety. It's just like, well, do you know what I mean? Like every time you then step in for them and let them avoid, avoidance is the key word here. Every time you let them avoid something to do with their anxiety, you're actually enabling that anxiety and you're teaching their brain that like, yeah, there's something to be scared of and therefore you had to avoid it. And so like every time you do that and you step in for them in that way and like remember it's manageable steps. So don't suddenly make them go do stuff they're not normally doing but like that's the difference between, so it's coming from a good place, what you're doing but it's not actually helping them. So like every time you let them get away with like canceling plans and stuff because like, oh, they're just not feeling too good at the moment. And so like, you understand them and they might put a very big emotional guilt trip on you as well. Like if you love me, then you'll like, let me just avoid all this stuff and hide away. It's just like, yeah, but also if you love them you're gonna like want them not to like shrink their world to like this far around them. You know, you have to like find that weird like balance of being like loving and supportive and sympathetic and understanding that what they're going through is real to them and also like pushing them up and chilling them on, you know? Like inspiring them. So it's sort of like forcing them to do stuff because they kind of have to, you know you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink, you know? They have to do it, but it will be very helpful for them if you understand in this process that they're trying to go through and helping them to go and do these and to face their fears and to be like, wow, you did an amazing job. Like, you know, and not be sarcastic because they went to the shop and but to actually be like, wow, I know that was really hard for you and I'm really super proud of you because that's gonna inspire them to want to do more and more and more to get out of this zone, right? And I think understand that the things that you're gonna ask them to do that you're not asking them to do, you're reminding them that they have to do this work. And these could be as tasks as tiny as if your person is stuck on the sofa and hasn't left the house in six months, the task could be as tiny as like putting on their shoes and putting on their coat and just standing by the front door until they bring their anxiety level down a little bit. So it could be a tiny little task or it could be getting out and taking a walk or taking a drive or something. So whatever it is they're doing, always remember that it is hard. Like it is hard and that's why they don't wanna do it. And what Holly was saying is don't, you can't let this person off the hook or you should try not to don't enable their avoidance because the logical thing is to say, I'm having a bad day. This person will wanna say, well, I'm really anxious today. So I'm just gonna get my act together. I'll feel better tomorrow and I'll go do my exposure work tomorrow. But no, it's the opposite. You actually, it's more valuable when you do it, when you feel badly, yeah. Every time they do something that's hard for them, they learn so much more. It's like a really great practice session, you know? Whereas every time they do something cause they will already feeling okay, like fine. That's fine, but you didn't really progress much. You can learn everything, yeah. Correct, correct. So the biggest mistake that many people make is like, well, when I feel better, I'll go out and take my walk or when I feel better, I'll take a ride to the store and buy milk. It's not that you have to do it when you feel badly. And you have to understand that this person is also struggling with making that mental shift between I'm just gonna like hang on and just bear it and tolerate my trip to the store, the shop to get milk and then hurry up to get home and truly welcome it. Like, yep, I'm gonna go out and panic now and I'm happily gonna do it. They're trying to get to that point. So it will take a lot of repetition and struggle and... We should talk a bit about white knuckle and like just because it's so important because this is where people make tons of mistakes when doing like exposure because I think that just by like going out and doing this stuff, because it sounds a bit like that's what we're saying. We just like just go and just do it anyway. There's such a big difference between like, say it's you sending them to the shop to go and get some milk, okay? And like, so there's such a difference between them going like, oh my God, okay. And they go to the shop and they're completely tense all the time and they're trying to sort of like, maybe talk themselves like, oh, okay, okay. It's just anxiety. It's just anxiety as they go in, they get to the shop, they get it like, and then they get back and they're like, okay, I did it. And it's like, you did it, so that's good. But it wasn't good because they didn't actually learn that the anxiety itself wasn't dangerous. It's good that they did a thing. If they're stuck inside the house and they're struggling to get out, getting out of the house in itself is a good thing. They learned that going to the shop, like they went there and they survived. In their head, they survived going to the shop. But really what the really, really, really good work is, is if they do this, is if they go to the shop and they, as they are going to the shop, they're going, okay, I'm feeling anxiety and I feel like I might die. And if I die, do you know what, that's okay. Because I just have to do something different. So I'm just gonna go to the shop anyway and I'm feeling like, hell, but it's okay. Like because they're in breaks and they try and relax and they don't, if they normally hold their face, they don't hold their face. And this is where you can be really helpful is that you have to try and remind them of what they are doing. So if they're sat there going like this because they're feeling really tense and that's what they do, that's what I used to do. Like just feel, don't do that with your hand. Just put your hand down, just relax it. If they're trying to like feel like they just wanna like sit on the sofa and hide, then you need to get them to stand up and take a walk outside. Or you need to get them to do the opposite of what they are doing in those moments of feeling anxiety. So if you're walking with them to the shop, say, you need to just remind them as they're walking, like, okay, just relax your shoulders, just, you know. Slow down. Yeah. Like let the worst things that you're thinking about be okay, you're okay with them. Right, let them happen because they won't. Don't try and rationalize them, this is important. Yeah, don't try and rationalize the thoughts that come. Like if they're going like, oh, but what if I fall down and have a seizure? You don't go, oh, but it's okay because someone will call an ambulance and then they'll take you to hospital. You just have to be like, well, yeah, I guess. Yeah, go ahead. That's super important. So you need to cheer lead and motivate this person when they need it, when they wanna avoid and understand that you're trying to help them not do, not just white knuckle their way and tolerate it. So when that person says, I'm afraid I'm gonna have a seizure, the actual correct answer, believe it or not, which sounds heartless is, okay, go ahead. Go ahead and have a seizure. Like in so many words, I mean, obviously you don't wanna be a douche about it, but like, okay, go ahead and have a seizure because they won't and they need to learn that they have never done anything that has stopped them from having a seizure. If that's their fear, a seizure, then they have to learn their experience that if I do nothing, do nothing and actually just let go ahead and have a seizure, I won't. And so the only answer is to, I feel like I'm gonna pass out is, okay, I feel like I'm having a heart attack. Okay, I'm really scared. Okay, just calm. Okay. And so your job is to remind them of the, yeah, if they're going like, what if I go to the shop and then I have a panic attack and everyone in the shop sees me having a panic attack. Okay. You don't say to them like, oh, well, don't worry because actually like this, you need to just say like, well, yeah, people might see. Right, that might happen. Okay, you'll have a panic attack and you'll be okay. And the end result, because this person is trying to build experiences that always end with and I was okay. So they're trying to build stories that in there for their brain that always go, I went into a scary situation. I felt really badly. I did nothing about it. And I was okay. It always has to end with and I was okay. And there can't be anything intervening in the middle that says, oh, I snapped a rubber band and I was okay or I drank water and I was okay or I was with my husband and I was okay. I did nothing and I was okay. So keep that in mind as you're doing that supportive sort of cheerleading thing. You're asking them to do things that are hard for them and they will probably in the beginning be white knuckling their way and it's super common for the person to say, oh, I'm accepting my anxiety now. I'm not fighting it. I've accepted it. It's been two weeks and I still am having panic attacks because the first couple of times the first stage of this is they're gonna white knuckle their way through it. So you can help them by reminding them, like, hey, your shoulders are up around your neck, you know? Or like, why are you going so fast? Slow down. So there's some basic principles. Slow down, relax your body, learn to put your focus where you want it to be. We always tell them like focus on the tip of their nose and breathe, focus in your breath, let those anxious thoughts scream at you. These are the things that they need to do, right? And so you have to be cognizant of what they're trying to accomplish and to help support that. And here's a big thing because this is often very like bad information that gets given to people that are having a panic attack. It's that they get told to like distract themselves. So like, talk to them, like do a quiz. I used to get like my husband to like give me quizzes. Yeah, yeah. Like just to try and distract myself out of it, but distraction, this is where the key, this is the whole key that I didn't know for years and years and years because the avoidance maintains anxiety and the avoidance means not only avoiding going places and doing stuff, but it means trying to avoid how you're feeling at that time. And by distracting myself and asking for quizzes was trying to avoid how I was feeling. And so you see like the difference, actually I should have just sat there, you know, I just sit there and feel it and then it passes and I realized I learned a lesson that there was no danger and it was just adrenaline going through my body and it's gone. That's what you need to learn. But so by going like, oh God, I feel awful, like distract me, talk to me, let's talk about anything. And then, because it will work, it will distract them out of it. It's a degree, you know, it will help, but it doesn't learn them a lesson. So it might feel like a short-term fix and tempting to be like, I'll just distract them out of this panic attack. But actually like in the long-term, it doesn't teach them anything. And it's the same with taking a pill, take a benzo because they're having a panic attack, you know, like it doesn't teach them anything. The benzo will relax them and then the panic attack will go, but it would have gone anyway. And then- And what they have learned is that you save them or the coloring book or the asking them questions or talking about last year's summer vacation, they will think that that saved them when they didn't need saving. So they need to learn. So your job is to understand this and sort of help them navigate those waters, your job. That's terrible. I shouldn't say that, that's putting pressure on people. But if you want to be helpful, like keep these things in mind because they will forget when they're in the midst of like a panic, especially in the beginning, when they start doing this work, they will tend to revert back to like, oh, I gotta run home. I have to, they'll forget all of these things. So your part of how you can be helpful is, while, no, let's talk about that. So while they're actually having a panic attack, like now it's in full force. We got five alarm panic happening, you know, and there's the internet is full of like the top five things you should do when your wife has a panic attack. No, no, let's, we'll tell you what you're supposed to do. So, right, so now whatever the situation is, you're at home or that you're out and this person is ventured out and you're with them and it happens. The worst thing that they could think of happening, the full blown five alarm panic attack happens. So what do you do? Like, and if you love this person, you want to save them. You do, because you don't want to see this person terrified and suffering. And believe me, I have seen and interacted with many people who go into very extreme states, they're crying, they're screaming. I've known people who say they literally throw themselves on the ground wherever they are. Please help me, save me. Like all that stuff happens on a fairly regular basis. So what do you do when you're with that person now? Get ahead. It's all you. Okay, so the first thing you should do is recognize that they're having a panic attack. Like don't get sucked into their sort of like, well, what if it's something else this time that you can tell when they're having a panic attack? I've seen it a hundred times before, right? So you can tell they're having a panic attack. So you need to be, what you need to remember is that they've completely lost all of their reasoning at this point. Like it's almost like their brain stops working a little bit, you know? And so you need to be the reminder of all these things that they know when they're not having a panic attack. You need to sort of remind them of that because they will forget and it's so hard when you're in the midst of it to remember like to do the opposite, to relax into it. It's just a panic attack and to feel the, to let the sensations, to not distract yourself. You need to do all these things. Well, you don't have to. But you can be very helpful by reminding them of all these things that they know but they will definitely forget in that moment. And they will be convinced that actually like this time it's something else and, and yeah, yeah, but this time it doesn't apply because of they'll have like a million excuses and you need to just be like that firm and calm. And you need to be, you know, like don't be like angry with them or like, it's just a panic attack. Get yourself together. That's not gonna help them at all. You need to be very like calm and soothing and be like, this is a panic attack. You know what you should do. You need to relax your shoulders. You need to relax all your muscles. We say like be like a rag doll, right? Yeah, go rag doll, right. Just intense, intense, intense, intense. And feel those symptoms. It's just adrenaline. It won't hurt you. Look, like you can almost ask them to like examine the symptoms to a degree. Like what, what actually is it? Cause it feels to them like it's just this overwhelming thing, but when you break it down, it's like, oh, my hands are shaking. I'm breathing really fast. And none of the symptoms really that they feel anything different if you're like very physically sort of exerted, right? It's sort of like the same symptoms. It's just that you have like a fear that goes along with it that makes everything you feel like it's dangerous. Yeah. So, yeah. This is the point at which when the five alarm panic hits, this is when your special person has to be a superhero. Like remember this, we are asking them to literally, in their minds, especially the beginning when they first adopt this strategy, if they are afraid that they are going to die when they feel that way, we are literally asking them to accept that, that, okay, go ahead and die. Like imagine how horribly counterintuitive and difficult it would be to put your brain around that strategy that says, all I wanna do is run and be saved and be safe and tense and fight, but I'm gonna do exactly the opposite and literally surrender to this horrific experience. And that is what they need to do. So they are surrendering to the worst thing that they can imagine at that point. So you need to understand that. And really the best thing you can be is not even necessarily reassuring, but just there. Like if anything were to happen, I'm here, but nothing is going to happen. And remember, this is where the rubber meets the road. Like I think one of the most valuable things you could say to somebody who's having a panic attack, especially panic attack number 700, is you need this to happen. This is where you're gonna take your brain to school. And I find that a lot of people will be willing to say, oh, okay, okay, I can do that. As opposed to like, go ahead and die, which is literally what we're asking them to do. Go ahead and have a seizure, go ahead and have a stroke. This is the time when you do the opposite and I'll stand here with you while you do it. And I know that it's incredibly scary and super hard, but I know you can do it. And don't engage in, you're okay, you're fine, they're already doing that. And we're trying to get them to not do that. No, I'm okay, no, I'm okay, no, I'm okay. Just neutral, brain and neutral, body relaxed, let it happen. And all of a sudden they'll discover, you're gonna know that day that they do it right the first time and like four or five minutes into it, they suddenly have their eyes brightened again. It's like, I feel better. Like they feel the shift and then that's the magic moment of like, holy shit, it actually worked. And that is an amazing moment. Like that is a moment where you start fist pumping and jumping up and down and celebrating wherever you are, fucking celebrate. So yeah, that is what they are trying to do. So one thing that you could do and they have a magic attack, one reaction you could have, which might be interesting to try, is to be like, oh, brilliant. This is a great chance to practice. Practice, that's exactly right. Practice, like, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. So like if you are, you know, whatever your sports fan, like, okay, you're a college football, American football fan and your team gets to play, you know, the University of Oklahoma, I know for a lot of people it doesn't make sense, but you're a little college and you get that once every 10 years, you get to play Oklahoma, like you could be terrified, like they're gonna kill us. Yeah, they probably are gonna kill you. It's gonna suck, but your team and your program will get better. So using a sports analogy, if it helps, like, yes, this is, okay, remember we want this to happen. This has to happen sometimes. And you need to also understand that their success is not having a panic attack. Like so many people feel like, oh, I'm doing great because I haven't panicked in three weeks. Usually means they're running around it and they've found ways to sort of cleverly injure and engineer their way around it or stop it or, you know, but you kind of need it to happen sometimes. You can't make it happen. If it doesn't, it doesn't. They can't get better without panicking. So that's why you should almost, like, greet those panic attacks with, like, realism. Because it's just like, right, there's another chance to practice. And every time they have a panic attack and they manage to, like, relax into it and surrender to it, they are gonna make such a huge step in their recovery. They're not gonna notice it straight away, but it is there. It's in the background. It's, you know, another time that they sat and played those scales. Like, it really, really is a very useful thing. And they have to, you cannot get better from panic disorder without panicking and learning to face it. So it should not be, yeah. So what you said about, like, the success is not anything to do with, like, oh, I went, you know, or even, you know, when they go and do stuff, like, oh, I went here and I did this and I didn't have any anxiety. It's like, oh, okay, well, that's a shame. Well, I mean, it's great. Yeah, obviously that's great. You want that. And in the end, we should probably also mention this, this crazy like thing that nobody gets, even the people who are in the think of it, they don't get it for a long time. Your person's, your special person's goal is not to never be anxious. It's not your, the object of this game is to not make it go away. So we're not talking about therapies and exercises and exposures and techniques that make it go away. What their goal is, is to learn to not be afraid of it and not care if it happens. So when you are, when this person, whether you're with them or not, when your person is out and they're doing the work and everything's been going pretty good for a week or two, whatever it is and it's working great and they're working the system and they feel like they're making progress and either you're with them and panic happens and they fall apart or they come home and they're a wreck because they panicked and they ran home, your job then is to remind them, this isn't, you're not back at square one. This is not a setback because they're gonna think that like, oh, I ruined everything. I thought I was great. I'm never gonna get better. This is, I- Honestly, setbacks don't exist in this- There is no such thing. There is no such thing as a setback. So in that case, your job is to sit them down and give them a hug if you need to and be compassionate and say, this is not a setback. Remember, you have to feel that. So, okay, maybe you panicked and you freaked out and you went back to the old ways when you ran home to be safe but do you think that was right? And they're gonna say, no, I know I shouldn't have done that. Okay, no problem. So let's get in the car and go back to that spot right now. If you can, that's the best strategy is to get right back on the horse immediately. Or if you can't, because the situation just doesn't, you just can't, you just can't recreate the funeral or the wedding that you're at, do something else to simulate it and just make sure that you understand. And this is where you're cheerleading yet supporting. Look, I know that's really sucked. I'm sorry that this happened. I know you feel defeated right now but you're not defeated. You're not like, you are not defeated. Remember, you have to go through those things constructively in order to move forward. So you guys are not working together toward don't expect that your friend or wife or spouse, whoever it is, is going to do this and stop panicking or stop having anxiety. They won't. That's the secondary result. First, they will get to the point where you guys can go out to dinner or go to a birthday party or go to a concert or a sporting event or just go shopping. And he or she may go through that event and feel panic. They might panic, but it'll only last 10 minutes and then you'll just keep going. It won't be a disruption or they might feel anxious constantly, but it won't matter. In terms of the pace about it, puts it like, yeah. Exactly. And you'll see the difference between, okay, I'll go out to dinner with you and they just bear it because they think they have to. You'll know the difference. The goal for them and you'll see when they get there is I'm feeling really anxious right now in the shopping mall as we walk through, but okay. And they will be anxious and uncomfortable and maybe not feeling their best, but they will not be on edge. And you'll know. You'll know the difference. That's where they're trying to get to because when the day comes and they get to that and they discover like, oh, I felt really bad and really anxious and I was anticipating and I don't like the mall, but I was okay anyway. That is when the anxiety and the panic begins to fade away. But if they did it right, if it comes back one day, okay, I know what to do here. So essentially they're learning to inoculate themselves against this disorder. So if it comes back one day, okay, it's not a big deal. Like this isn't- It's like a vaccine, isn't it? Yeah, it's like a vaccine. They're learning to like, oh, if I have a panic attack one day, okay, it's a 10 minute event. I feel like crap for half hour afterwards and I go about my day and it will no longer like this incredibly disruptive thing in your relationship with this person. Because what happens is that it's hard for them to believe it at the moment, but what happens is that when you have a panic attack, when you know how to deal with it and that you don't have panic disorder anymore, like us, because we still very occasionally get panic attacks. Sure, I can have now and then. Yeah, and it's just like, it's annoying and it's like not very nice at the time. But honestly, like, I don't even think about it afterwards. It doesn't affect my life. I don't avoid anything. I don't change and it just doesn't matter. It's like just being ill, like physically for like 20 minutes or something, you know, like it really isn't like a thing that is a problem. And then you can have a panic attack whilst doing all the stuff you normally do anyway, you know, like actually. Right. Like you can be in a meeting with people you could be driving the car. I've had panic attacks on stage, singing and playing, you know, and like, like actually it doesn't even matter. Like it's so sort of irrelevant. And when you realise how much you spent of your life, try not to have a panic attack. And actually that was what was causing all the panic attacks. Was the trying not to? Yes. It makes you want to like hit yourself, you know, like. Yeah, yeah. And I think in the end, I mean, there's so much where we can talk about this for hours and hours and try and get these tips to people. But I think in the end, patience, it takes time. You have to be a motivator and a cheerleader. You have to be a role model. But you also, oh, you have something else. Yeah, let's throw it in there. Yeah. This is really for the people around the people. Like because I would like it. I think people in human nature feel like when they're feeling bad, feel like they have to withdraw away from people and not be around. Like this is more for like, maybe not the like the significant other or the very close people, but more like the sort of more like the friends or like the sort of more stuff. There's people that like it doesn't matter. Like if your person doesn't want to come to dinner with you or to the party or round to your house or meet you for coffee because they're scared that they might be feeling bad. Like you should also make it clear to them that like, you don't care if they're feeling bad or not. Do you know what I mean? That's really good. Why should they feel like they can't be around you because they're not feeling like a hundred percent? Like it's just bullshit. Yeah. So you should really try and draw that into them that like it just because people are feeling bad doesn't mean that they should try and withdraw from being around people because that really isn't the case. And nobody who cares about you would want that, you know? No, that's true. And I think you're right for friends and like more of the peripheral people that you counter social situations, but even for everybody, even the significant others like it's, you know what? Let's go out to dinner or let's go to that movie. Let's go see that movie. And you know what? If you really feel horribly and you panic at the movie, all right, it's okay. I won't like in a way as their partner in life to a certain extent or as somebody that they care about, you have to be willing to say like, well, I know that this person doesn't want to do this. They're going to do it anyway because it needs to be a learning experience. And if they panic in the movie, you really have to be okay with that. And you have to let them know that too. Like if you have a panic attack willing your movie, that's okay. It'll be okay. I'm not going to be angry at you. I'm not going to hate you. I'm not going to, you know. They will feel like they are ruining like yours. Everything. It's because it's so loud. Everything that happens when they're having a panic attack is so sort of loud in their head. Like everything is so, such a big deal. And like really, like I said, you know, cause people can be having a panic attack and you wouldn't even know, but to inside their head, it's like this huge crazy thing. And so you could be sad to someone in the movie theater and they're having like huge panic attack and you wouldn't even know. But to them, they're like, I've completely spoiled your whole experience. It's just like. Right. So the best thing you could do is to, first of all, you have to truly feel that way. So if you are in that situation where you're like, if you panic, if you, in your head, you're thinking, if you panic in this movie, I'm going to lose my shit. You got to work on that. Like if you really think that, like so you have to really, truly say like, you know what? I don't care if you panic in the movie or if you're panic at dinner. I would, I would rather that happen and we be together and we try and do this thing together. So you have to be on board with that. First of all, you can't pretend. But I think there was something else that I was just going to say, and now it went out of my head because I started saying another sentence, which was a big mistake. But that thing, like, oh yeah, that thing where they feel, let's address the center of the universe issue. I mean, we're 40 minutes, but let's address that anyway. I think one of the things that becomes the most stressful factor in a relationship whether this is your friend or your spouse or partner, whatever, is the fact that you may begin to look at that person as like, it's always about them. It's always about them. Why is it always about them? Everything is about them. And you know what? Let's, let's, here's truth here. Here's the real talk. Like for somebody who is dealing with a panic with an anxiety disorder, panic disorder, agoraphobia, since they are driven entirely by how they feel and a fear of how they feel and what they think, it is all about them. But they're not being selfish. So you need to accept and understand that this person, I mean, there are selfish people in the world. So it's possible that that person is a selfish person by nature, right? It's possible. But in the bounds of the disorder and what's driving their behavior, they are not trying to be selfish. This is not an ego thing that says, I want the world to revolve around me. Please revolve around me. They don't, they'd rather not really, but they can't help it. So yes, they are continually driven by being worried about what they're thinking and how they're feeling. So no matter what the event, they will turn it back into themselves. So like, oh no, I woke up this morning and the hot water heater broke and there was a flood in the basement. Now I'm gonna have a panic attack and be in a tizzy and all you want to do is call the plumber and fix it and your husband or your wife is panicking and like sitting on the sofa in tears. And you might think like, Jesus, like this is so selfish, why are you so self-centered? They're not trying to be self-centered. They just take everything and reflect it right back inside and they focus inward on how does this make me feel? How do I feel now? How do I feel? How's my heart doing? How's my breathing? Am I tingling? Am I panicking? Am I nervous? So it's not being selfish. They don't want to do that. So you have to understand that, yes, probably you're getting resentful, especially if you're close to this person. This is your life partner in some way and you feel like, Jesus, everything revolves around them. If you help them through this process and understand like when you feel that, really the best thing to do is say like, okay, let's remember here, sit down quietly and rationally and say, I know that the hot water heater flooding is really stressful, but remember that stress doesn't have to become panic. Like you're taking this and turning it in on your, you're doing that thing again where you turn it in on yourself. Not, you're doing that thing where you're selfish. It's you're doing that thing again where you're focusing inward when really the problem is all the water in the basement. Let's focus on that and solve it and it'll get them out of that. Yeah, just have to try and keep their focus out of themselves. Right, the real problem here is that there's water in the basement. The problem is not that your heart is racing. So you have to gently remind them, you're doing that thing again where you're focusing on your cell. You're turning it inwards and it's not about that. It's about the water in the basement it's about the fact that the dog just ate dinner and we have to find a new dinner or whatever it is. We see this in the group a lot, people will go through like a very extreme thing. Like maybe like their grandpa just died and they were at their bedside when it happened and all this horrible stuff happened and all they're talking about is how they feel in it because they're having anxiety. And it's just like, whoa, why are you not like, it's more stressed about like the actual bad things that are happening. That's how sort of like I was saying everything's so loud and sort of just such a big deal and it's all this thing and it is just this crazy sort of irrational thing. But here's the good news is that every time they do that thing where they have a panic attack and you help them remember to relax into it and face it and accept it and surrender to it and they learn that thing and they make that progress. Down the road, down these six to eight months or however long it takes them, not only will they learn that when they have a panic attack like it's not such a big deal and that it doesn't like become, they don't start like avoiding all the stuff in their life to try and avoid it. So, but actually like the panic attacks will become less and less as well. And then all the other stuff like lifts it's like they're in a fog at the minute and it's not really quite them, you know like they're in there but like they're so in this fog they can't see outside of it. And when they make this journey and they go through these steps it all starts to lift and all the negative thoughts that they've been constantly bombarded with will start to lift and the rationality will come back and the sensitization, we call it sensitization where everything's like a trigger, everything, you know like- They're always scanning, always scanning, always scanning or they'll stop. A big, yeah, like a big loud noise as you chaired the football result. Like that's not gonna cause them to have a panic attack anymore. Like, you know, them, yeah. And in a way they'll stop being so-called the center of the universe. Like all of that will lift. So when you work together and help them get to that point where they're not afraid of how they feel anymore because that's in the end, that's what this is. The disorder is defined by being afraid of how you feel. So let's address it just for a second. Like, so we talked about in the first video it's not about take a pill, it's really not. Like sorry, if you're listening to us we're not about to take a pill. Many people are about to take a pill or find it or we're not. So deal with it. But it's also not about, it's not about just general anxiety. Like, oh, you're a worry ward. It's not that the disorder happens when you become afraid of how you feel. You're constantly afraid of how you feel. And you change your life because of it. So remember that there's a big difference there and when they lose the fear of how they feel which is an irrational fear because how you feel isn't gonna hurt you and what you think doesn't hurt you. When they lose that, all of that stuff somehow changes. So if you can, and people say all the time, well, how do I deal with, how would I tackle going back to work? It's the same as how you tackle going to the supermarket. If you can't go to the supermarket, if you work on the supermarket it'll be easier to go to work. So and when you work on like walking, taking a two mile walk or whatever, a two kilometer walk around your neighborhood that you couldn't do six months ago, when you could do that, it's easier to go to the supermarket, the shopping mall and the school run to pick up the kids. So it all progresses at the same time because the object is just lose the fear. If you stop being afraid, everything else starts to fall into place. You stop being the center of the universe, you stop scanning all the time because now I don't care if my shoulder hurts. Like my shoulder hurts it's probably because I hurt it in the gym and I'm not thinking anymore that, oh my God, that sends me into a total inwardly focused ball of anxiety. It doesn't anymore. So help them do the hard work and be patient and understanding and firm and compassionate at the same time. And it isn't about you, even though maybe this has really negatively impacted you for a very long time. If your person has sat you down to watch this video, then I think it probably means that they are ready to try something different. So do your best to forget the weeks, months, even years of like this has ruined my life or our life and like try to think of this as, okay, this is something new we're gonna try it out and it's proven it works so well. Like, okay, I'll get on board with this, I'll do it. Like you gotta buy it just so if anything else, like buy into this process and buy into it and help them buy into it. And like amazing things will happen. Not a miracle cure takes time, it's really hard. It's not a linear process, it's ups and downs but you know, there you go. So our 20 minutes turned into 50 minutes because there's just so much to talk about. And I would say that this is good, like you guys could talk, like this maybe is a reason to start discussing things. And if there's questions, join the Facebook group or comment on the video and we always do our best to answer. I might not every day but I try and check my YouTube comments on a regular basis and like it's a discussion worth having because there is a light, like you have to understand that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Yeah, well I'm gonna add one more thing is that like careful not to go down the route of like things that are solved or like you know, like shown to help for people, for stress is not the same thing as people suffer in anxiety. So don't be like, oh, I bought you like a weighted blanket because I heard it really helps with anxiety. Now, like you'll feel better because like all of these things you can help people with stress do not help people with an anxiety disorder. Do you know what I mean? Like this is really what we've been talking about the surrender and acceptance like if the person is suffering like panic attacks and agoraphobia and heightened anxiety to the point where it's changing their life a weighted blanket isn't gonna help them. It's really only this what we're talking about that will. So it's quite important to like maintain the focus on this like method. And the fact that you're dealing with an anxiety disorder you're not just dealing with worry or just anxiety with the term anxiety is so overused and misapplied in a lot of instances. But, you know, if your husband or wife is just concerned because they're having a hard time at work or they're guys having money issues and stuff like that that's different. So get them a weighted blanket if you want. That's totally fine. You know, whatever, like take St. John's board whatever you want to do that's a different thing that we're talking about here. And the one other thing that I want to add and I keep thinking about stuff is how they choose to go about this, right? And we talked about this by the way over and over with the actual sufferers themselves. I've done videos and all these things we've done them together. But all of the videos. Yes, watch them if you want. It might help you. Right. It might help you. That's exactly right. And I think trying to remember also that the root cause of that anxiety. A huge, huge, huge topic. And many people will say, well, let's talk about it. Let's just, you know, what's bothering you? So just the same way that Holly said, don't get a weighted blanket if you want but don't expect it to cure anything. Like that thing that says, well, something's that must mean that something is bothering you or you need to learn. I'm going to catch shit for this, but I'm going to say it anyway. Like you need to just let it, let go. Just let it go. Let go of your past. Let go of what you're worrying about. That is not it. So the disorder is also defined when the anxiety is the source of the anxiety. So whatever the initial, you had a panic attack the first time at 11 years old. I was 19. Like I don't know. I still don't know what triggered that. Like I had a 4.0 grade point average. Everything was going great, but my parents also divorced when I was 10 years old. So who the hell knows? There's a lot of stuff going on. Like, I don't know what it was, but it didn't matter because whatever caused that initial anxiety didn't matter anymore. The root cause is decoupled from the anxiety and the fear is now the source of the fear. So just like you might want to say, we'll come out to talk to our father Richard at church or, you know, a clergyman or a friend. They cannot talk their way out of this. So the original root cause of what caused that initial panic and anxiety no longer matters when they are back on their feet and living a normal life and can get out of the house and don't avoid panic anymore. By all means, maybe you want to work on life issues because we all have them. We all have baggage and issues, but the root cause, you have to get away from that because I've seen that a lot too. I've seen that a lot too. Don't force them to go and talk to a counselor that's just gonna sit them on a chair for 40 minutes once a week and ask how it's going. Yeah, once they've gotten over their anxiety disorder, they all need to spend their answer. Even at the same time, if you can, if you can manage it, there's nothing wrong with that. Those are good things to do. But it's super careful because I've seen people do that. My husband wants me to go to a therapist. He's not gonna help with the panic attacks and the sort of fog that they're living in. So get rid of the panic attacks, lift the fog and then you've got such more clarity to actually work on stuff for more of a psychological level. Yeah, an emotional level or there's trauma or all those things are real. We're not saying they're not real, but don't expect that your person should just go and see a counselor. Like you should just go see a counselor because some people will say go to the doctor and take a pill. Some people will say just go talk to a counselor, but it has to be the right counselor, like a behavioral therapist that specializes in treating anxiety disorders. So keep that in mind. Okay, I think I'm gonna have to go. No problem, we're all good. So thanks for tuning in, Holly. Thank you so much for taking the time. Super helpful. Find us wherever, Facebook, that anxietyguide.com is a start and you can find all the links from there. And comment, whatever questions you got, we'll answer them every weekend. Thanks Holly. And thank you guys for joining in. Bye.