 Well, we'll call the 16th regular meeting at a common council order. So would you call the roll please Bowman Berg Bonnet Serta Graf excuse Manny Montemayor Perez Peterson excuse Rinflaich Segali Stefan van Akron van der Wiel and Werner 13 present forms present Alderman Warner Thank you honor move that the minutes of the last common council meeting Be approving that the same stand has entered on a record They've moved in second at the minutes of the previous council meeting be approved under discussion Here you're not all in favor posed Pledge of Allegiance this evening. We have voice code Troop 818 with us this evening And Dan McKinsey's the scout master Dan No, yes, would you bring your troop up, please and lead us in a pledge I pledge allegiance to the flag United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands Steve rather the nations Slaughter to the mayor from Dieter Helm Indicating he's a resigning as a member of the mayor's special international committee effective November 1st And that can be accepted placed on file Aldermatic candidates we have four candidates with us this evening. They will each have Five to eight minutes to speak Steve I have a Four ballots here with their names on so if you'd like to pick one, please and we'll start from there Number each other sure Or you want to sue? Okay, Sue and the first speaker will be mr. Kevin messener Kevin if you could come up to the mic, please Kevin and you will have up to eight minutes. Great. Thank you very much Well, good evening, mr. Mayor council members members of the public Thank you for allowing me to speak with you this evening I'm here tonight to ask for your consideration and vote for appointment to the position of alderman for district 6 So let me begin by offering a brief personal introduction My name is Kevin messener. I'm 35 years old and reside at 2013 Broadway Avenue with my wife Lisa a Lifelong resident of Sheboygan. I'm a graduate of Sheboygan, South High School the University of Wisconsin Sheboygan extension and Concordia University with a degree in business management and communication I've held positions locally with Bemis Kohler company hasten manufacturing and Ross office products I'm currently employed full-time for HG Webber and company of keel We're a mid-sized paper converting equipment provider and I'm the information technology manager This position provides me a keen awareness of the business and technological challenges in today's economy Additionally as a state licensed real estate broker I'm a past member of the local board of realtors and the state and national realtor associations Having spent over five years actively listing and selling homes here in Sheboygan Currently I maintain a small real estate management company with properties located in the city of Sheboygan As well as throughout the county. I witnessed firsthand the struggles of our property owners and those faced by our tenants affordable housing reasonable property taxes the availability of city services stable infrastructure and recreational opportunities as well as a healthy economic and Employment climate of the necessities of a thriving city and should be a champion of city government. I Am a member of the Lakeshore apartment Association an Organization representing the interest of property owners in Sheboygan County and have been fortunate to serve on their board of directors I am also an active member of the Lakeshore Sunrise Kiwanis Club Serving in a leadership capacity both locally and in the state Kiwanis organization For those of you not familiar with Kiwanis. This is an organization whose motto Serving the children of the world epitomizes community service and involvement It is because of this involvement that I've been able to assist other community groups and efforts including the Boys and Crows Clubs Gus Macker Tournament May Woods Earth Ride the Festival of Trees and the JC's Bratwurst Day and With less fanfare we Kiwanians contribute through the city's Adopt-a-Street program at the Salvation Army's Red Cattle Drive and I think most importantly in our sponsorship of the annual high school graduation celebration Now although I have no previous political experience. I consider this not a failing, but an opportunity and Like many of you I am able to approach this position without any preconceived ideas or notions as to how things must be done Or have always been done Instead I promise to ask why and listen openly to all points of debate before arriving at a conclusion or making a decision and Although it is possible on occasion that we may not agree and my conclusions or my decisions may even be unpopular I promise to maintain my position No, this is not stubbornness or an unwillingness to compromise But an adherence to my principles Democracy the very heart of politics is about opinions and choices. It's about the majority and minority position And often we hear people speak ill of partisan politics, but I believe partisan politics is good It guarantees that the minority opinion is heard and often being a holder of minority opinions myself I appreciate it. It ensures that in the face of a majority position a person has the right to say I disagree That I have a different idea But government is about decision and after all the discussion after all the positions are heard a decision must be made So for me it is doing what we as individuals believe is best for those we serve and living with those consequences Often this means building consensus Many times it means compromise But it does not mean that everyone gets what they want and occasionally some people are not always happy Here's where it is often easy to decide based upon popularity But popular isn't always best or right Here's where one's convictions are tested Alexander Hamilton once said he who stands for nothing falls for anything Let me end by saying that I'm proud to support our community through Kiwanis and with your help I would like to join you in serving our city as an older man and with that I would be happy to answer any of your questions The second candidate would be Curtis Jackson jr. Curtis you will have eight minutes Honorable Mayor Shram and members of the Common Council. I would first like to thank you for giving us the opportunity to speak here tonight In 1983 I graduated an honor roll student from Elkhart Lake Lembula High School Upon graduation. I started working for minimum wage in a local factory After a couple years and several promotions I became department supervisor and eventually oversaw all aspects of the operation of the seasonal second shift After eight years, I decided to change careers. I took a cut and pay and became a pre-apprentice carpenter in 1992 In 1996 I completed the four-year apprenticeship program at the top of my class. I Complete I competed in and took first place in the state of Wisconsin carpenter apprenticeship contest that same year I was also selected to give the commencement address at graduation of all apprentice program trades at LTC in 1998 I completed the associated general contractors of Wisconsin's two-year supervisory training program and I have been employed by quash as construction for most of The time as a carpenter which amounts to over eight years. I Have worked there as a foreman an interim job superintendent and as a carpenter in 1996 I was elected vice president of Carpenter's local 731 Where I have served as an officer ever since currently as treasurer in 1996 I also became the first chairman of our newly formed community services committee and Over the past eight years as chairman. I have tried to lead by example by serving this community and Helping others by volunteering over 1,700 hours of my time through organizations such as Christmas in May rebuilding together Where I was recently elected to the board of directors and serve as director of house captains and skilled labor leaders There I helped coordinate the building a wheelchair ramps for the handicapped and making homes warm safe and dry for low-income and mostly elderly or handicapped homeowners Who could not otherwise afford the repairs all this is done with the generosity of corporate donors and volunteers from both the corporate and skilled labor We as carpenters have helped the United Way safe Harbor Ridgeway house the Literacy Council Blue Line Center Sheboygan A's Early Learning Center the YMCA Camp Wai Kota Little Red School House Camp Evergreen and many more organizations over the years Including the Boy Scouts of America where I have volunteered the last six years as a Cub Scout leader with PAC 38 27 And where I also serve as camp coordinator and every summer take time off of work to take a group of children to summer camp Also this year I put over 200 hours into designing and building a new four lane Pinewood Derby track that the Cub Scouts from across the city Will be racing on for many years to come. I hope someday to watch my grandchildren race on that track This past spring I helped with connecting communities at the John Michael Kohler Art Center a joint performance by the San Francisco Dance Company And it brought together people from the German Hispanic and Hmong communities within Sheboygan. I Have given 1700 hours back to this community that provides my livelihood through both public and private construction projects. I Believe an elected official is a servant to the public and community service is a big part of being a servant That's what this community is about people helping people. I Have also served on local 731's political committee for the past 10 years and organizing committee for the past seven years I was elected to serve on a 13 member executive committee of the 7000 plus member northern, Wisconsin regional council of carpenters I also serve served there as chairman of the newsletter and community services committee This year I was elected to a seventh term as treasurer for whitetail bull hunters in Johnsonville I'm a life member of the North American Hunting Club and a volunteer member of the board of directors of Sheboygan child care center I am the current chairman and eight-year member of the citizen advisory committee on community development Twice reappointed by Mayor SRAM I am a 23 year member of Bethany reform church where we help with the church youth group My wife teaches Sunday school and I serve on the property management committee My wife Mary and I are raising our sons Curtis and Tyler here in Sheboygan And I will work hard to make Sheboygan a place that they want to stay and raise their families. I Believe the budget is going to be one of the biggest issues facing the common council in the next few years The citizens are fed up with taxes continually going up, but on the other hand they don't want to see Services cut either It'll be tough to prioritize city services without stepping on someone's toes No matter what we do someone will not be happy with the decisions made on the budget We need to try to hold the line on taxes prioritize services combine What services we can and not make cuts to departments that generate more revenue than their budget in? 2005 we'll have an increased tax base with the South Pier district And I believe that having the condo sold at Blue Harbor and new investors looking to build new businesses There is indicative of where the development of the South Pier district is headed A few months ago. We had an open seat to fill the six to fill in the sixth district At that point in time anyone seriously interested in serving as an older person could have run Running a political campaign to seek public office is a lot of hard work as all of you here know From experiencing it yourself There are the signatures needed for nomination the fundraisers to pay for the yard signs and literature you give out The candidate screenings and questionnaires from all the different groups in town The most important part of this is a countless days you spent knocking on doors in the middle of winter Trying to reach out to the constituents to support you In April I did not win the election, but 44% of this constituents did support me. I Was able to raise an excessive $4,000 for my campaign. I think for a first-timer. I did pretty well I would hope that whoever this council selects tonight to fill the opening would have the opportunity to serve this community for more than just five months With nomination papers needing to be filed in only a few weeks I think it would be in poor taste to oppose the person who is selected tonight without giving them a chance to prove themselves I believe you need to appoint someone that will be open and responsive to public input is Willing to ask tough questions Invest the time into researching the issues and wanting to work together with the council for the betterment of the city We need someone who will stand up for the citizens of this district and the city Someone to be the voice for the elderly and working families equally We need someone who will seek accountability and help prioritize services of the city We need someone who will work towards reducing crime and gang activities in our neighborhoods We need someone who will work for Sheboygan's future while protecting its past We need someone we can trust to represent our views. We need someone that will act as a servant to the people they represent I Believe I am that person I am here to stand up for and serve the people of Sheboygan through leadership with honesty and fiscal responsibility Thank you. Thank you Jeff Ratke Jeff you will have eight up to eight minutes. Okay, Mr. Mayor members of the Common Council and citizens of Sheboygan My name is Jeff Ratke. I'm a 41 year old lifelong resident of the city of Sheboygan I'm currently a homeowner on South 19th Street 1443 a and I'm a full-time sales associate For US Siler here in Sheboygan, and I've worked in a various different capacities in factories public services It's with the public and different retail establishments and things So I have a good feel for what people really want to talk about I deal with people each and every day listen to him Waiter wants their needs against everything But I come before you tonight to tell you why I want to fill this vacancy on the Common Council Because I believe I can make a difference for the people of the sixth automatic district and the city of Sheboygan I'm an independent mind looking only what's best for Sheboygan. That's all I've ever wanted to see no hidden agendas No ties any part of city government no ties any of the groups that have looked at filing criminal charges doing petition drives to overturn existing legislation Their devotion to their causes are great I mean I want to see that continue that people are looking at both sides of the issue because that's what we need to keep open Government working here in Sheboygan the recent past has no bearing on why I'm here But the people of the sixth district do and my job would be to listen to their concerns their Problems their needs their wants and weigh them out and help them get the answers to the questions that they have and With that in mind on every vote that would be taken here in the council These times of shrinking budgets and rising costs the city is going to be faced with some tough choices I could impact the future the city for many years to come Some of these choices can be easy, but many are going to be extremely difficult But any case the city needs leaders to look at and weigh in on what's best for the district in the city as a whole No, some of the state mandates that we have with the cost passed on to the local property tax payers Are just getting to be burdensome for a lot of communities and the state continues to cut the aids They're sending to the cities and some of these cases we need to start talking to state representatives and have them look at ways In Madison to help us either fund or eliminate these mandates Some case we need to look at cutting the existing costs I had one case a couple of years ago is talking to a former city clerk I told me the city spends thousands of dollars to have the minutes of the Common Council published in today's world Why are we spending all those thousands with the the world of technology the amount of money? She told me at that time could put a couple people out cutting city park grass in the summer and making the city look beautiful Rather than putting into the newspaper We can put that on the out on the internet post it in City Hall the fire stations the library the police station those minutes If somebody really wants it we can mail it to them It's got to be a lot less expensive something to look into with our state representatives The residents have also been subjected to a lot of extra taxes because of duplicate services by the city in the county I was talking to County Board supervisor a couple weeks ago and he told me that committee is stall That's looking at the shared services and if that's the case It needs to be jump-started because the city of Sheboygan taxpayers can't be continued to pay for double services and Shared services isn't a dream anymore. It's got to become a reality in order to hold the line of the tax levy There's a recent tax. I was just checking on nobody at the county can seem to answer the question I need to call Madison to find out exactly what it's about and that's what we need to find out Why are we being taxed and where can we cut those taxes between the county in the city to make it more beneficial? So we save money here in the city the whole county saves and that's going to benefit everybody not just us The city deserves the best that their dollars can buy we owe it to them to continue to identify ways of improving the city infrastructure while Maintaining a cost-effective operation of some of the operations maybe need to be fine-tuned or retooled become cost-effective So I'd like to see the city workers come to the council the ideas and how they think we can improve the services that we provide Our city employees are the strongest asset that this council has they're the people that work day and night 365 days a year to keep the city operational. I mean middle of the winter time Christmas Eve They're all plowing snow salt in the streets just to keep the city going. They're the people that know What's best for the city and how to get those functions running properly and smoothly and how to save that money? I mean we're in a living in a world-class city and I've said it's a sleeping giant for a lot a lot of years when I travel the world People have heard of this community. I was just in New England over the weekend You'd be surprised that people have heard of Sheboygan, Wisconsin Maybe it's just because of the funny name from the song, but maybe not but we have a lot to be proud of and Wonderful reputation we've built up over the years needs to be held on here Not saying that we don't have problems because we do but if we focus on those poses We built on those negatives of work that we out in a much more easier manner and of course with fresh ideas come a lot of fresh Fresh faces come a lot of fresh ideas Some may have been tried and explored before some may be not But any case a new face is always in the best interest of any organization In this case the tenure many of you people in the council will be there to help those fresh ideas either become reality Or just another idea simply by your years of experience to help the person along I'm more than willing to work and listen to all ideas from all avenues It's in the best interest of the city and the residents of the district to look at all the possibility Winnie and weighing in on all the facts listening to all the concerns of the residents and fulfilling the wish of the people As I said earlier there will be tough choices to make and many unpopular decisions, but that's the job I'm asking for tonight and As a Curtis Jackson said if I am not chosen tonight I will not run against the person that is chosen in all fairness because as he said next month. We have to start doing the papers for Nomination I don't want to have somebody up against that and trying to be up here representing us and doing the best possible job That's just not fair to that person So I would be willing to sit back and wait and say let the man have two years Let him do his thing and then we'll take a look at it in two years Let him have a chance because in one month's time nobody's gonna learn how to do this I'm sure all you folks took a little while a couple months Maybe a year or two to really get into the swing of it and that's what I want to see if I am chosen I will run if I'm not chosen. I won't in all fairness to whoever is chosen. So that's where I stand I thank you for your time this evening. Thank you and the final one is Gary Laughes Gary you will have up to eight minutes. Thank you your honor ladies and gentlemen Conventional wisdom often said You should never follow and act with young children or small pets in it I think tonight. We should maybe add aldermanic candidates Those guys are good I'm going to keep this real short real sweet. My name is Gary Laughes I'm 53 years old in a lifelong resident of the city of Sheboygan My wife Joanne is with me here tonight In last September we celebrated our 30th wedding anniversary We've owned our own home on south 17th street and lived there for the past 27 years So we know the pain of that tax bill showing up every December in the mailbox and we grit our teeth to see how much it has gone up over the last year We raised two wonderful sons in that home The eldest went to UW Madison where he received his master's degree in engineering And he's now living and working in california divide Designing excuse me satellites So that old toss-off line It's only rocket science Well in my house sometimes it really is rocket science My youngest son is a senior at UW Milwaukee And he expects to graduate this spring in computer technologies And business management So he speaks in that techno geek Language that's I believe somewhere Derived from english So one of the reasons why I'm running for alderman is to Simply talk to somebody in plain english But with two children in college you can understand How we've learned to live very quickly within a tight budget Since 1974 I've worked at vinyl plastics on the south side Many of you probably know that that business is now up for sale. Some of the divisions have already been sold So now I'm learning firsthand That anxiety and fear that comes with knowing that A new owner is coming in Perhaps he'll close the doors and move the jobs somewhere else It's a really a terrible feeling And one which all too many people in this city and county already know too well Early in my employment at vinyl plastics I became involved in their local union I was elected president of the union and held that position for 21 years During that time I negotiated Quite a few contracts All of which were very beneficial to the to my membership They came in on time And never once did I have to call a work stoppage to get the job done I fought in one many grievances and arbitration cases against the company in those years And I'm proud of those victories, but I'm also proud of the times when we were Working together company and union to create policy and procedures Which resulted in a safer a healthier and a more equitable workplace for everyone I still belong to the same church where I was baptized And I've served as an elder a deacon and congregation president I chaired their long-range planning committee their finance committee and their building committees And last but not least for the last 17 years I have served on sheboygan's parking and transit committee Without political records to consider all you have to tonight to make your decision on Is on character and that's why I mentioned these things that I have just listed I think they show that i'm a person of stability and determination They show commitment and resolve And rooted in my faith they show a willingness to serve others not for personal gain, but for the common good Sheboygan is my home and I love it here When I look at all the development that's going on along the riverfront and over at blue harbor When I look down a street and see the theater renovations and the growth of the buildings downtown I'm filled with pride and encouragement and excitement What better way to give something back to the city that's given me so much What better way to become part of and to ensure its bright future Than to you agree to become part of this council That's why I want to become the alderman for the sixth district. Thank you Alderman Warner So thank you, honor I would make a motion that the following names be placed in nomination for the position of sixth district alderman person Gary locks Jeff radke Curtis Jackson jr. And kevin messner Voting to be done by open ballot and if more than two candidates are nominated The candidate with the lowest number of votes be dropped from the list and balloting To continue until one candidate receives a majority and with that I would move to close the nominations I'm motion to second before us is there any discussion hearing none so The bottom favor of it opposed motion carried On your excuse me on your ballots It will say on there I vote for you put the candidate's name on the top line And my name is then you put your name underneath that and then steve will collect it after you're done Okay, so Okay, the vote is as follows kevin messner zero Jeff radke zero Curtis Jackson jr. Three and gary laux ten Congratulations gary laux alderman laux. Would you like to sit in your chair, please? Can't vote yet and tell you some warning, but please participate in the meeting I'd like to thank everyone else for coming and participating in a process Yeah, okay moving on public forum um, dan verhastl Dan once again. I need your address Memorized a 705 fairway drive 705 fairway drive Sheboygan correct. Okay, and you will have five minutes dan. Thank you Again, I'd like to thank everybody here your honorable mayor council members Sue and steve as well Again, I'm here representing the friends of sheboygan's park and this is my third time in four months talking to this group So you can imagine what my position is, but I did want to clarify That we are here to save the park. We have nothing against the police and we believe a police station should be built Just not on shared in park But just coming to more recent terms, there are more of current matters I guess at the last council meeting november 1st I was very intrigued to see some of the new positions by both the mayor and by alderman warner It appears that the mayor no longer favors the county site as he said earlier I had a chance to sit with you in your office here three months ago three and a half months ago And you were pretty strong in your conviction that the county site was the way to go regardless of the council vote And I was glad to hear that Over last week you came back and said that public safety is where you're standing over popular opinion Personally, I wonder what your position really ever was and I don't mean that as an insult But I do understand the pressures that are on you from both sides And it appears that alderman warner has also upgraded our effort from a vocal minority to a popular opinion Back in august 16th at the meeting when we tried to rescind it You had stated that we shouldn't buckle to the opinion of the vocal minority We'll hear back on On november 1st. He said well, we shouldn't buckle to the opinion of the popular vote So I'm not really sure what it is right now if we should go with the minority or the majority At the last meeting I really do believe in my in my heart that the mayor and alderman warner single-handedly insulted nearly everybody in the room Hence showing their disconnect with the people here in the city of shabuagan and I say that for a couple of reasons There were a lot of parallels made the mayor you made parallel to women's suffrage that your efforts and trying to use shared in park as a police station was similar to To Say it would be woodrow wilson trying to attain women's voting rights Alderman warner you made references to jfk in his fight for civil rights legislation I mean, I've been busy lately, but I really don't No, I think we're still talking about just trying to either save shared in park or destroy shared in park I don't know if we've talked about slavery or civil rights So clarify that me with me if you will If we're going to make historic parallels I don't think it should be with three presidents and I'd be so bold as to say I think it should be with the three stuges I think there's just a real disconnect with this city government not with everybody here But I think there's a number of people on the council that just Feel to here to represent their views and not the people's views and that makes me Worry, but let's move on to some of the most recent arguments that have been talked about the first one is cost Numbers are floating around 300 700 a million million one What it's going to cost to build at the county site Let me clarify. I don't care where we build it I think it should be central somewhat and I think it should be a new station sometime in the future But I really don't care where we build it Um bill gary and county board supervisors went on record saying that he would furlough most of the expense of that site into shared services Effectively making the expenses non-existent for the taxpayer And I don't know why that's never talked about I've talked to nearly everyone here who opposes me over the phone over the last three months And the only real cost that I can pick up is fiber optics We're a block or two away from the fire station and we'd have to run fiber optics over to the 23rd street site or the county site Um, so that to me is the only real cost We have a concrete slab on 23rd street, but we also have a reinforced underground heavily built Underground parking for the shared and park site. So I think it's a wash Just don't insult us by telling us these large numbers because I think they're just out there to scare us A second argument is public safety over popular opinion. This is one that made its head reared its head here two weeks ago Again, I think this is an insult to captain kirk and his 90 plus policemen I think he's got quality men and I think he's a quality person and he can do his job From nearly any place in the city Within the general central region of the city So that's not in that's not insult him or his people Last year violent crime dropped in the city of shabuagon 14.6 percent property crime dropped about 1 So the sky isn't falling as chicken little would like us to believe. So don't insult us with these scare tactics The third argument is that time and money is already spent. We've had the experts come in We've spent three years four years 50 thousand dollars. We know what these experts actually gave us five sites Because you guys were smart enough to have them recommend more than one site and I commend you for that So let's go to number two site tomorrow and get our work done. We can start out We don't have to revisit the entire plan We don't have to get the experts back in they did their work They gave us a second site a third site a fourth site and a fifth site So let's go to one of those sites and start tomorrow. Let's not waste any time. I agree with captain kurt A third argument or a final argument, I guess Is that we spent a lot of money again? We don't need to spend any more money. I'm sorry five minutes is up All right. I'd like to just conclude if I might Five minutes, Dan. I'm sorry. Could I could I conclude just I have three sentences You need to open the floor. You're gonna conclude. I'm sorry. We need a motion to open the floor If we're gonna extend it because it's five minute period sure. I said We have a motion before it's in a second in favor Opposed No Broke off that's fine To open the floor. This is a vote. Great. Open the floor. No, let you extend for Dan's people for five minutes. Yes I'm sorry bowman Berg bonnet serda Manny Montemay or Perez Rindflash Segali Stefan No Van Akron Vanderwheel Warner Motion fails Yeah Four eyes now. Thank you. Okay. Thank you very much and I think I guess my point was just made about the disconnect with the city government Thanks again. Excuse me Before you on all of my serda Um, I sure would like it that if we give respect where respect is is due and that Captain Kirk is chief Kirk. He is chief of the police He's worked hard for it and he needs to be recognized as such. Please. Thank you Okay, next on the list. Oh, I'm sorry. Also dan. I like to just My quotes were from past president carter And I was in a holer And what I said was for myself. It's not about a popular a popular decision It's about the public safety about protecting the very things we cherish our neighborhoods our playgrounds and our children And I will pick that over green space and that I will stand by Okay, next on our list is john burner john if you And john I need your address again, please 19 19 broadway 1919 broadway John good evening everybody. I'm not much on protocol I was gonna start one way and I'm just gonna John can you speak into the microphone please swing here a little bit more? Thank you as long as I don't sing, right? I've been sitting and looking at a city map here And figuring out 14th street And 23rd street And I'll tell you what I'm sorry I'm not really happy billing in the park 14th street is the center of the city here. I those who really didn't sit down and look at it The orange is 14th street the green are arteries coming off of 14th street And then if you look above there, there's 23rd street accessibility Yes accessibility For the police It's called logistics I don't have a big degree, but I was like telling the gentleman over there that was speaking I have four of my six and a half years that spent in logistics and the service So I'll know a little bit about the movement in a city Something like the movement in the service So then I was thinking Maybe I should take a survey 14th street 23rd street people for 23rd street If they I mean that didn't want it on 14th street I showed them the map and said can you think of an alternative because here is 23rd street And right away they said well you want me to sign 14th street. Oh you can sign any street I went to 25 houses out of 25 houses One two three four five six seven people answered the doors. I guess it went at the wrong time. I was looking bad One woman was for Was against 14th street and as I explained at her she kept saying you're trying to have me sign For 14th street and wasn't I just explaining. I think a lot of people Look at 14th street 23rd street and really don't see the whole city of shabuigan out of The seven names five wanted 14th street to 23rd street. I went out and random and I picked 11th street. I don't know what I think that's your district If there's something on the side, yes it is Random didn't know anybody there. I even tried to get somebody that was raking lawns. He didn't want nothing to do with surveys So my survey went kind of belly up, but I did get seven people. So I didn't go undone Is my time running low? Oh, you have about a minute and a half minute and a half. I still saw you my minute and a half Do you know You voted twice on this and now it's coming up for referendum I don't know this referendum if it was going to come it should have been before the voting I think we're kind of putting a cart in front of the horse And once you start this you lost control of the common council And that's all I got to say. I'll even give a half a minute back Thanks, john Next is mary joe quilling Mary joe, can I get your home address, please? Yes, it's uh n6404 shamrock court n6404 shamrock court and where is that in plymouth? In plymouth Okay, mary joe, you will have five minutes, please. Okay. Well, thank you for having us Um I'm my name is mary joe quilling and I'm in the coordinator Well, I was the coordinator of tobacco free sheboygan county coalition until this last week, but I'm a coalition member With the tobacco free and then with me. I have laverne horg Who is also a longtime member of the coalition as well Back in 1992. I think Basically what we wanted to do is educate The council on what the coalition has been doing And kind of I put a packet together that you should all have It's got some great statistics for sheboygan county the impact That tobacco has which is the number one preventable killer For the county and so I also wanted to talk about three things that the coalition has been working with In those areas are youth initiatives cessation and smoke free environments As far as youth go you probably have read in the paper the wisconsin winds program We worked with law enforcement Throughout the county and this has been a very very successful program It started a couple years ago Statewide it went from 36 of the retailers willing to sell tobacco to minors to this year less than eight Percent. Um, we finished up just recently a couple weeks ago. So this has been a real positive thing tobacco to minors is About youth access tobacco is a gateway drug And the longer we can keep kids off tobacco the less likelihood that is that they're going to be smokers Most people that do smoke probably even in this room will say they started before they were 18 So that's a real big push that we're working on Secondly, um, we're working to reduce the rate of women who smoke during pregnancy In sheboygan county one of the pages that you have in your pamphlets. It's it's a pink page It talks about the percent of smokers Women smokers that smoke while they're pregnant in sheboygan county. We're at 19 percent At the time that this was done in um state average is 16 percent So we started a program called first breath um to help Pregnant moms to not smoke we have over 80 women that have been in the program so far And the reason again why we chose this population those women are going to have Less more likelihood of having low birth weight babies premature deliveries Set an infant depth is higher and also respiratory problems just to name a few The third area that we're working on is restaurants and um smoke-free environments and at this point in time We've had 80 different restaurants As well as a number of hotels go smoke-free This is also a good thing Especially when we're talking about secondhand smoke and we know that secondhand smoke impacts everybody Whether you're a smoker or not The restaurant people have Employees have five to eight percent More likelihood of lung cancer that work As a waiter a wait staff or a bar tender in a restaurant. We're smoking is allowed So these are the efforts that we're working on And I think you can see that it is the number one preventable killer And also on that pink paper the burden of tobacco in sheboygan county. They talked about the economic impact That's what I want to conclude with the economic impact for tobacco for sheboygan county. It comes to a cost of about 33 million year And along with that about In the health care cost And then along with that lost productivity for work is about 29 million. So that's that's really impacts all of us So I guess i'm giving you some food for thought the purpose was to educate get some dialogue going and I've got contact numbers there that you can reach myself or Mary shuler from satanix hospital as a coalition chair along with mary segar from the health department public health nurse So I thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Great A minute is fair. Thank you for the time you've given us. Thank you And next would be henry capitella Henry would be you'd be so kind to give me your address. Yes, uh 16 19 north 38th street And that is in the town of sheboygan. Thank you And you will have five minutes, sir well Some of you may be glad I will not be speaking on shared and park And what I will be speaking about is pretty much what I come here almost every council meeting to speak about And that is fiscal accountability Um, I'm here basically representing Our organization. I'm the executive director of home ink We own the building on ninth and superior. It spans the entire block This is a copy of our tax bill We paid this in 2003 17,514 dollars and 61 cents We are a nonprofit, but this is what we paid in property taxes The reason I'm here is I think that when you're looking at your budget, which is one of the probably the most important things that you'll be doing within this next month And every person that came here that Wanted to be considered for the aldermatic seat If you were all paying attention Everyone mentioned property tax The rate of increase of their property tax And the concern of keeping the property taxes To a bare minimum The article that i'm going to lead to is an article from the shabuagan press It is the november 7th Sunday edition it is the editorial page and it says county 2005 budget step in the right direction And the reason i'm i would ask that The alderman and also people that are out in the community to get a copy of this and to read it because I would I would compliment the shabuagan press because they did an excellent job And explaining of how your property taxes would increase even if the city would not be Asking for any additional dollars and the reason that that happens is that Every year property taxes or the property value of every every Dwelling in the city shabuagan is reassessed the they look at the increased value and The tax rate which is the rate that The the property is assessed per $1,000 is then looked at and that is then multiplied by the value of your home And that will give you what the additional tax that you'll be paying for the following year Uh an example is here in this article. It says supervisors passed a 144 million spending plan tuesday night requires a 42.9 million from taxpayers in shabuagan county That's 1.9 million more than they paid this year Okay, then it goes further and explains how you can actually that a home Where it says in 2004 your home valued at 100,000 with the county's tax rate of 6.4 per 1,000 you paid 640 in 2005 because of the 6.6 Rise in property value your home is worth $106,600 with a tax rate of 60 $6.28 your tax bill for county purposes is $669.50 that's $29.50 more than you paid in 2004 So automatically that's going to be increasing and it says That's where you're looking at the tax rate Then they say 1.9 million increase in the levy is 4.63 percent A reasonable amount when you factor in inflationary Increases for the county it's facing That is the levy So when you're looking at your expenditures and how much you're going to spend more than you spent last year You're going to be looking at a tax levy of an increase So what they're saying in the county it says adam paying correct Points out that the county is holding the line on both the tax rate and the levy And then it goes further the challenge of the county board is to continue the focus on the levy more than the tax rate By keeping the tax levy in check The tax rate will follow what that means is if you have a handle on your spending You won't have to worry about the tax rate because that will follow in Because you're not going to be spending as much as you you would So what I would recommend is that you look at this and for everyone that's here um, they're To give credit to some of the aldermen Um, in fact two of the aldermen are not here. Excuse me. Alderman gruff. I'm sorry, but your five minutes is up Henry we will be having a budget uh hearing next week So if you'd like your more than one come back sure on the 25th, I will be back 20 second 20 second I will be back and then I can uh, let you know who the alderman were that uh Should be complimented Okay, and we have sarah rush is it rush or rush rush sorry And sarah could you give me your home address, please 14 17 kentucky avenue I'd like to address the council tonight on behalf of shared and park our insightful forefathers our children grandchildren And all the future generations of the shared and park neighborhood Since many of those mentioned don't have a voice in our community. I'd like to present some facts to this council on their behalf Fact number one the kimmy report picks shared and park is their number one choice for the new police station true Of course their directive was to look for the most cost efficient spot Park has no acquisition fee because it's a park Low demolition cost because it's a park And it doesn't take anything off the tax base because it's a park When did our parks become a fair game for development? Fact number two nobody came forth to complain about destroying the park until the council actually voted to put the police station there That's true. However, the council targeted a park in a lower income racially diverse blue collar neighborhood Many of the older residents speak and read very little english Since reading the shavuigan press was basically the only way residents would hear about the issue. Many didn't know there was an issue In addition subscribing to the shavuigan press is not always a top priority in hard working homes struggling to make ends meet This resulted in many residents who were caught completely unaware of the council's discussion and decision to take the park You asked why didn't they complain before I ask you Why didn't you distribute flyers to the neighborhood or have a community input meeting? To find out how they felt Could it be that you're afraid of the answer? Fact number three putting a police station in the park will not affect traffic in the area false On tuesday september 28th 2004 the shavuigan press ran an article about the special municipal court investigation committee The intent of this committee is for shavuigan to create its own municipal court Putting the financial questions aside the city would have to cover the cost of running the court now paid for by the county I looked at the numbers of potential cases According to the press article annually. There are 7100 cases with fines Quoting the article the city court could operate twice a month running into the late afternoon hours And the committee is recommending against night sessions for now unquote Doing the math 7100 divided by 24 days twice a month equals 295.8 cases per day that they're open If the court's open 12 hours each of those days that means they would have to process 24 and a half cases per hour What does this have to do with Sheridan park? According to alderman warner and I quote the court the court could move to the city's new police station after it's built and quote I believe that 24 and a half cases per hour will cause an enormous amount of traffic and congestion in an already busy area Not to mention the parking problem Most of the homes around the park have no off-street parking Where are they all going to park? On top of everything else. I can't imagine throwing that much more traffic into a school zone In closing I'd like to address the mayor's comments at the november 1st council meeting He stated that it's morally the right decision choosing safety over green space You also said that when you sit in your yard, you need to know you're safe. That's an easy statement to make when you have a yard You're not only destroying a park you're taking the closest thing these neighbors have to their own backyard Our petition gave voice to 3 000 sheboygan citizens all saying the same thing save sheridan park They're speaking. Are you listening? Please put your pride aside and let the people at sheboygan decide if sheridan park lives or dies Thank you Thank you, mr. Mayor. I want to say a few words about Number 16. Can you hear me? Yes. Okay 16 14 and 16 15 um I was contacted by some local businessmen Who are willing to fund a study? By chuck engberg of engberg anderson design partnership They'll pay for the study Which would provide information on which shared services have been successful in other communities And would be pertinent to sheboygan They will pay for this study To save the city of sheboygan and the county Money long range. This is talking about shared services I will ask the council To accept at the neck at the next council meeting I will ask the council to accept the information that they are willing to pay for Read the information that they are willing to pay for And perhaps act on the information In addition The same businessmen Possibly if necessary would pay for a strip of land From the volrath company that the volrath company is willing to sell 30 feet wide along the south edge of their property That would make the full four acres for the police station These are Sheboygan people willing To pay to help us Learn more About shared services. Thank you. Thank you Also out of this 16 From 16 1 through 6 16 23 16 20 will be held And also 16 21 will be held Correct. Yes If there's another discussion Would you call the roll please ballman Berg bonnet serda mani montemay or Perez renflesh sagali stefan van akron Vander wheel and warner 13 eyes motion carried 16 24 through 34 to be referred 16 35 alderman stefan authorizer retaining outside legal counsel to represent the city in a matter of maryland ryan Versa ryanel versus city of sheboygan alderman stefan uh your honor i need to ask for suspension We have a motion before us for suspension. Is there any objections? Hearing none I move the resolution be put upon his passage Move the second resolution be put upon his passage under discussion Hearing none. Will you call the roll please berg bonnet serda mani montemay or Perez renflesh sagali stefan van akron Vander wheel warner and bowman 13 eyes motion carried 16 36 by alderman bonnet mani Perez van akron Bowman peterson gruff berg rainflesh sagali serda stefan warner montemay and van wheel congratulating the sheboygan south Sheboygan south varsity football team for their accomplishments during the 2004 football season exactly Excellent job sheboygan south 16 37 through 40 Well, wait don't we have to vote on that resolution? Oh, i'm sorry 16 36 go ahead alderman bonnet Thank you robber make a motion to for the resolution to be put upon his passage Move to second resolution be put upon his passage under discussion Hearing none all in favor. All right, opposed motion carried 16 37 through 39 to be referred to it will lie over 16 40 by alderman stefan berg mani montemay Authorizing a transfer of appropriations in a 2004 budget alderman stefan You're all right once again need to ask for suspension There's a motion on the floor for suspension. Is there any objections to suspension? Hearing none This is a author to transfer appropriations in the budget We had previously I believe the council had passed hiring additional police officer Contingent on the funds the funds had been found to finish it out this year and also funded next year's budget Subject to approval of course at the budget time But they didn't feel the urgency to get the officer hired in the hiring training procedure started So that's why we're suspending the rules so I move that we Authorize the transfer We have motion to second before us under discussion Hearing none Alderman orner under discussion your honor I did get to attend that finance meeting in this money is from 2004 dollars And it will be used to hire a one patrol officer this year And at that finance meeting director rich gap heart explained This as well as the funding that would be in place to fund a position in 2005 So I think salar and grievance the common council public protection have all approved hiring a police officer But to find the money and my thanks goes out to rich the mayor And the finance committee for their efforts to come up with funding to get this officer hired this year. Thank you Alderman want me Thank you, mr. Mirror. I want to congratulate alderman warner and rich I didn't possibly believe you were going to find the money and you truly did good for you Thank you if to another Would you please call the roll please sirda? Manny montemay or Perez Rindflash Sigali Stefan Van Akron Vander wheel Warner Bowman Berg and bonet 13 eyes motion carried. Congratulations chief Got it done 1641 through 47 To be referred alderman montemire Thank you again mr. Mirror on 1644 my resolution about asking for a referendum at The primary or if there is no primary then on the spring election regarding saving shared and part I simply wanted to explain Why I'm asking to have that resolution referred to Public works and forestry I want their opinion on record Regarding the resolution This resolution to ask the men and women of shaboygan To have their say about the destruction of shared and part and also To the finance committee So I can find out if there's any cost associated with the referendum So that our next council meeting all the ducks will be in a line All the teas will be crossed all the eyes will be dotted remember This document is about shared and part Not the construction of a police station building Shaboygan knows We need a larger safer more efficient police station. That's not the question So think long and carefully in this next two weeks About whether to ignore which would mean of no vote On this resolution And of course, I'll say more next time. Thank you Thank you all of them Warner. I think your honor on speaking on a document to be referred. I would move to file document 1644 We have a motion and second before us to file document 1644 under discussion under discussion your honor. Here we go again Not once but three times this council has said Move on with the shared insight Now Because some were not happy with the decision. They want to stop the entire process process and I think that's wrong Alderman burg hit the nail on the head two weeks at all When he said the real issue is not shared in park, but political opportunity He stated just watch who takes all papers for this office or that office And lo and behold here we are Too bad that only one of the opponents of using shared in park had the courage to bring in a document This council made the right decision two weeks ago This council made the right decision twice in august It is time to put this to rest I support filing and I support moving forward with this project. It's about time Alderman pres Again, it comes to me as a complete shock To have a petition Collected by a large Very large group of sincere people who simply Are asking the council to consider Their effort to look at it Yes, this issue has been before us more than once That should prove to us that this issue is very important and every time we say it's been here three times or two times What's it going to take for us to say we need to start listening to the people There's lots of people in favor of saving the park I understand now there's a petition floating around in favor of building a police station That to me only confirms And validates the need for a referendum You've got two good strong groups that one one thing and one wants the other May the best man win. What is wrong with that? That's what our democracy is all about Not about us Slamming our foot down and saying no I don't care how many times you ask me. No Now the point that's been made that we elect representatives to represent us that does not mean that we let you loose It also means That because we elect people for two years The damage they can do is irreversible before they can even address whether you should be elected or not There's a lot of damage done. This is why people in the legislature and the us constitution allows this For people to come before us and say we have enough people for you guys to even consider it For us to slap them And I I think your honor. I think this is this is a point where Talk about frustration This is this for us to slap this people in the phase a third time Is unconscionable People have talked about how this should stop well slapping people in the phase should stop And all we have to do If you want it to stop all we have to do is call for a referendum Oh wait before you get that hook back up All right, all we have to do crossing my arm here All we have to do is call for a referendum Let the people decide and that's it Thank you. Thank you. Paulerman Montemire back you Thank you, mr. Mayor. Okay The league of municipality said we legally can't can use the park The league of municipalities has a four page article about the importance of parks and recreations Reiterating what we learned from dr. Carl Byron that police stations cause more crime in an area not less Plus a lot of other things in the league of municipality magazine The milwaukee journal kennel worth place talks about the revitalization of that area It looks exactly like jefferson park. In fact, I thought it was but the reason it was It has been revitalized is because it's old strong houses across the street from a park Close to a school and it was revitalized and of course The area around shared in park is obvious that it's coming up for revitalization and re gentrification Because it's across the street from a park and close to a school and if a police station is built there It will continue to deteriorate The kimmy report says About that site Or may be a contentious public issue No kidding. You were told that it would be a contentious public issue It is we must let the people at least say yay or nay Remember three thousand signatures said yes, we want to save the park and they did not approach 37,000 people 3,000 people said they wanted to save the park and they only approached another thousand that means the Ratio was 89 to 90 percent of the people that they talked to that wanted to save the park This is a big deal. This isn't putting in a new street This is a big deal to tear down a park Thank you Alderman bird Well, like I said when I was elected chairman of the committee the whole That we were going to make some tough decisions A lot of people aren't going to like what we're doing and we're not slapping anybody in the face We have a duty to our taxpayers to save them money This is one big way we can save a lot of money and don't Kid yourself by his people coming up with all these facts and figures It's been a proven fact. This was the number one site chosen by the experts Chosen by the experts that run the police department The chief his deputy chief and all his patrol people Let's not Go any further. Let's get this thing done tonight And like like I said, we're not slapping anybody in the face Back to you Alderman Montemire. Thank you again the truly effective way To save money to cut costs the truly effective way is shared services We all know that and we all know that that is going to be difficult But that is the true way to save money And if the police station goes at Sheridan park and this is not the reason I want the park saved I want it saved because it's a park that'll put one or more nail in the coffin of shared services Thank you Alderman Stefan Thank you your honor I think most of you know that I did not support this building the site at Sheridan park But I think it behooves us to take a vote I was wrong. I Thought the car could stay on top of screamers for all I care. We had thousands of letters or Petitions in they didn't send them in and asked for referendum I thought the car could stay the council felt otherwise It's over. I think the same issue is here Shortly after I was elected as Alderman 16 of us Said yep, we want to build a police station I know Marilyn Montemire. I have a friend of hers. I know her goal is not to stop this police station But the result is that it's delaying it This police station hasn't been built for 40 years But it's been studied how many times? Why would you do a study and not build it? Because you get 16 people to say yeah, we want to build it. Yeah, let's study it And then you get two to say I don't like the site and two more say now It's too expensive and three more say wait, let's build it over here This did you sold this building over here and it doesn't get built You know, we owe it to our police officers to build them a building This isn't the perfect site. We were trying to work with we've got a design now Maybe we can interpret the park into there. That's fine. I think we've heard the people I think If we can put a park in there the more power to us But I think you know, we owe it to move on. It's not my site It's not the one that I voted for but I owe it the council voted on a well two or three occasions at least I think now we've got to go because if we have this referendum When they're loose, there's another referendum You know, maybe somebody's gonna say why did you do it in February? Nobody votes in February? Let's do it in april more people vote in april and then it's more people vote in november We've voted on this how many times it's not my site, but I can't see delaying it any longer And I'll support the motion to file. Thank you. Alderman mentor mayor last time back to you. All right. Thank you last time. I agree And of course we could we could now have A ceremonial groundbreaking if you'd chosen the right Spot in the first place the one that we were all expecting Thank you Hang on hang on a minute. Alderman Vanderwill Thank you, owner as elected officials were chosen To get all the information and make a decision Dangerous part of a referendum is misinformation When I call the people some of the people who signed the petition Most of them that I had talked to were under the impression that the county owned land was to be given to the city for free This is absolutely not true Given the city the county land for free was an afterthought of the original county proposal It went to the committees of the county board and never came to the full board of the city of shabu again Until recently I had every intention of supporting the referendum When people tell me that they wouldn't have signed the petition if they would have known the truth I can no longer support it Thank you Steve you want to say something before we move on uh an issue of Procedure the way I read our our ordinance and I'm looking at the 2-191 as far as The preference for the motions I would look at by the fact that there's a motion to file that puts the the previous Recommendation to refer to the committees Basically as a competing motion as I see it and Under our ordinance and I think it's roberts rules of order as well the Motion to commit to a standing committee would take precedence over postponing indefinitely with just a file So I guess what I would suggest is there be a vote taken first of all to refer to standing committees And you know depending on that go how that goes On the motion of file, okay, very good. Thank you All of it. I'll be right there all in my order all of my right flush Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Steve. I was going to wait till the temperature lowered a little bit in here before I'll bring that issue up that we have dealt with that in the past before going what actually takes precedence and Motion to refer does take precedence. So that would be the first vote. So speaking strictly on that motion, which is to refer a document to committee And not necessarily what the document is about. We just had four candidates here Ask us for their vote and their support to be on this Council and they spoke of respect. They spoke of service. They spoke of respect to their constituents in respect to feather their fellow Alderman and I think we've just shown right here by not allowing a document go to the committee You're not showing respect to both the alderman that suggested the document We're not showing respect to both committees that is being referred to And I think it's quite against the grain of what we've just seen from the public and their impression of why people want to be alderman And I certainly welcome the new alderman and hopefully this is not how Processing procedure goes from here on out the document I feel should be referred to the committee for discussion out of respect for us fellow alderman. Thank you Thank you Alderman mani, did you want to say anything? Thank you, ron I have deep concern about obviously the long-term impact of the decision And that's very painful for me, especially because I was one voting on this issue In that we as a council did not Have full and complete information at our hands. Some was misleading That misleading information was very key for me in and affecting my vote And I think people not only need to be heard, but we need to be proactive as a city and helping people voice their concern and even recognize the issue that will be On the docket for discussion and I don't think we well did that I don't think we intended to not include people in the conversation, but de facto. We didn't well do that Given that reality and given a second reality that's that my mind is that a referendum itself is possibly quite potentially problematic That its information in itself might be misleading I want an advisory referendum Because in the first or in that ward in that district it might be that most people By a majority of 60 percent would not Object to having a police station there But given that possible reality you still could have a majority in the city that said Put the police site there. I want to know what those people in that ward and that district feel A referendum would give us a lot of information that we have never had fully at our hands advisory. Yes Binding no Alderman warner, thank you, honor The issues have been discussed in committees for years for 40 years. It's time to move on this document should be Denied referral to the committees And uh that and I guess we would then not have to vote to file. Steve. Is that correct if it's not referred Do we still have to vote to file? Yes Okay, so I would urge the council. It's no more than a delayed tactic. It's That's all it is We do not want to forward this to the committee Thank you. Alderman ring switch back to you. Yeah, just the point of order then for steve. Um Other documents from 1641 to 1647 were referring Um, why does this need to vote if it was to be referred? Why does this need to vote versus 1641 to 1647 don't need votes to be referred? Those are basically put on the agenda that way and it's That's the motion and there's no objection There's only because of Just want to clarification that it's not It's automatic unless somebody brings up an objection at all times. Thank you All in the press Thank you, honor I guess I just wanted to make clear For the fifth or sixth time That my my comments and My decision and my strong belief in allowing people to speak It's not a delayed tactic I think some alderman including your honor would remember several a couple of years ago I wrote an article to the shabuigan press which which was printed Under the caption to the point During which I outlined my heartfelt support For a bill in a police station and my reasons for it The support was hasn't changed and the reasons which haven't changed one bit This can my action and my position on not destroying sherdon park should not be and I wish it would not Be construed as a delayed tactic anymore your honor And I say this with respect You promised to build a police station the first time you ran. That's eight years ago. It hasn't been built Things take time sometimes Things take time If this station is not built at sherdon park I don't know what I have to do to assure everyone including the police department That I would be a cheerleader just as I've always been even more so To fast track the process because I really believe And I respect a police station for feeling that way, but I really believe that they feel Given the atmosphere and what's happened here. This is the first time ever Ever They've had the majority to build it And I I understand that they're afraid that it may not be built I understand that they're concerned that somebody's trying to block it Whether those true concerns are true or not. That's another issue, but I can assure you from my point I would champion a police station But not at sherdon park So please this is not a delay tactic Some things take time I think that what we've got here Next year or next month you're still going to have the majority vote to build that police station Thank you. Thank you. You made my point very clear It does take time and we've been talking about it for the last seven years six years and it's taken long enough Now it's time to move forward and build the police station Alderman sirda Thank you your honor With this position comes a tremendous amount of responsibility And correct me if i'm wrong, but my vote When I choose to exercise that vote to represent district six is no more powerful or no less powerful than any of the other 15 older men represented in this room That's the democracy here of checks and balances And like I said earlier Not everybody agrees that That the police station should not be built there and i'm choosing to represent that other side And I think we need to clarify because the county site has come up on numerous occasions Who said we're going to build it there? Don't we have to go through the same process? But we continue to imply that if we don't build it at sherdon park It's automatically going to be at the county and I think the public is hearing that and I think we need more Clarification we would have to go through this whole process again. Thank you Alderman van der wil Thank you, your honor. I'll make this quick. I'm hearing that we didn't give enough information to the people. We didn't listen to the people In uh spring of 2004 WHL small fell small fell that large had a survey which I don't have access to but I do remember because he's gone now on WHL websites That website's gone too But uh, I do remember that the police station at sherdon park was high on that survey and in june Of uh 2004 the shawarma press did a survey on their uh on their internet And out of that survey 42.3% Voted for sherdon and 36.1% voted for the county and 21.6% voted for others So this information has been out since spring and it's been talked about since spring. I just wanted to make that point Okay, we have a motion before us to refer Motion before us to refer to public works and finance to public works finance. Would you call the roll please on that? And I vote would be to refer to public work and finance right I know I understand that okay And I vote would be to refer this document to public works and finance Bowman Berg Bonet Serta Manny Yes Montemayor Yes Perez Hi Rinfleisch Segali No Stefan No Van Akron No Vanderweel No And Warner No Four eyes and I know sorry michael All of them in the corner On that I would move to file Second We have a motion to second me for us Is there any other discussion? I vote to file No vote you know what that is I'm going to call the roll please. Oh, Marge, did you step? Can you just explain that? I mean certainly you vote to file it's I and you don't want to file it's I If you if you want to file this document then you vote I Okay, okay Berg This is to file the document Bonet Aye Serta Aye Manny No Montemayor No Perez No Rinfleisch No Segali No Stefan Aye Van Akron No Vanderweel No Warner And Bauman Nine to four The documents filed Moving on 1648 By the Building Use Committee Recommending filing documents submitting a communication from Roger Lamb Offering his suggestions and drawings to accommodate both the police station And a well designed compact park recreation center All of them in order Hold on a minute. I got to find that one your honor. I did want to speak on 1645, but we'll save that for another day. Okay. Yeah, that was referred First on 1648 I would move the reported committee be accepted and placed on file and that the document be forwarded to that group We have motion to second before us under discussion Alderman Montemayor Thank you. Mr. Mayor This is going to be referred to the Building Use Committee's Architect Selection Subcommittee And I probably shouldn't know, but I don't know who is who are the members who is on the Architect Selection Subcommittee Good question. Alderman Orner Thank you, Your Honor. It's actually not being referred to them The documents need to be placed on the file But the issue while looking at the incorporated park Okay, on the west end of that lot It's going to be referred to the architect Dr. Long, local commander and artist Right A really nice idea that he put together And we would like any architectural firm that is chosen To take that into consideration when they look at developing that site Okay, and the drawing is going to be transmitted to the Building Use Committee's Architect Selection Subcommittee The drawing is going to be made available to that group to share with the architect Right, and that group is staff The Building Use Committee's Architect Selection Subcommittee is city staff It's actually city staff They go through the process through purchasing It's verbiage, I didn't write the verbiage for this But what happens is the purchasing department along with staff From the police department and rich and the planning staff Meet and discuss with architects They have a procedure they go through in purchasing For these types of things to come up with What they make as recommendation for an architect Which will happen after they finish their job So Building Use isn't really involved in that directly They do that on the most part of the job I don't know if Tom or somebody Tom is on that group Steve, the chief, all the deputy chiefs Kim Verhal, Rich is involved in it, I believe Rich Are you on? You're not on that one Okay, he is in Building Use, but it's all Is the city staff, those people that you just mentioned Are they all subcommittee people of all of the different committees? A finance and public works? You're getting hung up on the word subcommittee They're not really a subcommittee They're just the way it's handled Okay, so that's not actual correct verbiage? Correct, okay I believe they're not a subcommittee It's not a creative committee or anything Basically it's committee of some staff people that have been selected To interview some potential architects for the police station Could we just amend those words to say city staff? To make it more accurate? That would be fine Because you know 10 years down the line We'll say I wonder who they were But city staff would make it clearer Yes please I'm fine with that Do you have a motion? Yes please, thank you Second? Second Under discussion You're amending this Alderman Van der Will Thank you, I just wanted to ask Steve McLean If there was an attorney McLean If there was a reason why we use that language Or if that's just how it turned out The reference to the subcommittee? Yeah I don't know I didn't I wasn't involved in drafting that either But I think it's technically correct that there is no Architects election subcommittee It's primarily through the purchasing agent's office He generates requests for proposals And there's a staff group that reviews the proposals Thank you Okay There's another discussion, all in favor of the motion Opposed? Motion carried Right now we're going to pass it as amended On that I would move to pass it or file it as amended We have a motion and a second before It's under discussion Hearing none, all in favor? Aye Opposed? Motion carried 1649 Bylaw and licensing Recommending nine beverage operators license 6583 based on applicants' failure To cooperate with the committee and failure To reveal all violations on the application Alderman Bonet Thank you, Your Honor I make motion to accept and adopt the report of committee We have a motion and a second before us Under discussion Aye, Your Honor This is for Andrea Morris Is Andrea Morris with us tonight? Andrea Morris Your Honor, Andrea Morris is not with us tonight Thank you Under discussion Hearing none, would you call the roll please? Sirta Manny Monta Mayor Perez Rindfleisch Segali Stefan Van Akron Van Der Wiel Warner Bowman Berg And Bonet Thirteen Ayes Motion carried 1650 and 51 to be referred 52 1652 will lie over till next meeting Alderman Warner Actually Bill first Pardon? Oh I'm sorry Alderman Stefan On 1653 I would move to accept and adopt And the resolution be put upon its passage It's been moved and seconded that the 1653 be put upon its passage That's by finance recommending authoring the hiring of one police officer in 2004 Alderman Stefan Yeah earlier we transferred the money under suspension And now we're actually approving the hiring So that's what it is Alderman Warner I just want to say again Your Honor I'm glad we're able to get this done Thanks to you Rich Finance Committee Everybody that worked on it It's nice to get this position moved forward Yes it is, thank you There's another discussion Would you call the roll please? Manny Monta Mayor Perez Somebody's voice changed Nothing Twice on one name Oh okay let's try it again Perez This is the resolution for hiring of the officer Rin Flesch Segali Stefan Van Akron Vanderweel Warner Warner Yikes Bauman Burd Boone Serda Thirteen eyes Motion carried Chief again Congratulations When will you be bringing a new person aboard? Excellent Good Super 1654 and 50 Oh 1654 through 59 will lie over 1660 through 62 to be referred 1536 by Alderman Stefan Berg, Manny, Monta Mayor Authorizing a transfer of appropriations in the 2004 budget Alderman Stefan How to move to approve Do you want to do both of them right away? Do you want to do both of them right away? 1537 also Sure We have a motion before us for 1536 and 37 under discussion Hearing none would you call the roll Manny Monta Mayor Perez Rin Flesch Segali Stefan Aye Van Akron Van Der Wiel Warner Bauman Berg Boone and Serda Thirteen eyes Motion carried 1663 will go to finance 1664 finance 1665 a resolution by Alderman Bauman Authorizing entering into a development agreement between Sheboygan Senior Community Inc and the city of Sheboygan Alderman Bauman Do you want to remove that the resolution be put upon as passage? We have motion to second before us but Alderman Bauman, excuse me if there's anything I guess Alderman Bauman, I'd recommend that that lay over Okay The Sheboygan Senior Community is asking that that only be contingent on action on the Niagara Avenue Street Vacation which had to be republished So won't come up for action again until the December 6th meeting Okay, I withdraw my motion Alderman Bauman, second Okay, that will lay over 1666 a resolution by Alderman Warner Bauman Authorizing the filing of an application with the United States American Department of Transportation Authorizing the Excluding of the contract pertaining to grants of a calendar year 2005 Alderman Warner I thank your honor make a motion the resolution be put upon its passage We have a motion to second before us under discussion Under discussion your honor This will allow Sheboygan Transit to apply for its federal transportation grants Which cover the lion's share of their budget each year And something that needs to be done Do you know the discussion would you call the roll please? Montemayor Perez Wyn Fleich Segali Stefan Van Akron Vanderwill Warner Bauman Berg Bonet Serda And Manny Thirteen Eyes Motion carried 1551 RC by Public Works Authorizing entering into a development agreement with Walmart Concerning certain public roadway improvements Serving the area of the Walmart project Located at South Taylor Drive in Washington Avenue Alderman Bauman Well your honor I really don't want to do this But I would move that it be put upon its passage We have a motion before us in a second That the resolution be put upon its passage Under discussion Go ahead The record ought to be clear that what's Coming from the committee of the whole and Should probably have another motion to amend to take out the Reference to roadway improvements Just to the roadway I'll make that motion that the amendment be made And that was on the Roadway improvements Right Just moving the words roadway from the two paragraphs in the resolution 120405 Two seconds Okay we have a motion in a second before an amendment Under discussion I'll get back you want to talk on the other All in favor of the amendment Opposed? Motion carried okay back to the now Alderman Bauman another motion for passage as amended Well your honor again I hate to make the motion but I would make I'll make the motion to pass it as amended Okay we have a motion in a second before us Under discussion Alderman for us Thank you mayor just wanted to say that To thank actually to thank the planning department for the great job that they did and to Voice a couple of concerns that from people who call me which were addressed during the Committee of the whole but I nonetheless wanted to address them here so that they're Intern to the record and one was a concern from a gentleman who called me today asking What exactly was going to happen with the old building and what plans the city had in terms of Maintaining the building so it wouldn't become an eyesore And so forth and the other concern from another individual What is the city going to do if it can do anything at all to to provide some Some sort of support or assistance to The businesses who are going to be Almost left alone without with all that huge traffic flow I understand from the Committee of the whole that perhaps there's not a lot much that the city can do It's a little bit out of your It's a little bit out of our jurisdiction, but whatever it is that we can do I would ask that the planning department attempt to do I also wanted to say that at times I I was reluctant to support this and at times I wanted to support it It turns out that I will support it And primarily for two good reasons that I believe that the city because of the way is geographical position Lake towns town of Wilson town of Sheboygan and colder In any manner that we can we we need to Expand our tax base and this is one excellent example in which we can do that the second reason that a strong Point is creation of 400 jobs needless to say it's about 150 more that are that are in existence now So given those two facts, I think it's very important that the that the council Approve the agreement. Thank you I would say that's good future planning correct? Yes, it is. There you go. Finally If there's another discussion, would you call the roll please? Perez Rindflash Segali Stefan Van Akron Vander wheel Warner Bowman Berg Bonet Serta Manny Montemay or Chen eyes three nose motion carry Other matters, Steve 1667 is a communication from kristin farver of the national multiple Lerosa society requesting permission to hold the ms walk in the city on april 24 2005 and that will lie over 1688 is communication received by the mayor from glenn pilling state against concerns with ultraman montemire Statements made at the november 1st council meeting suggesting the public referendum is a proper solution of the police station site selection That goes to building use We have motion to second be forced under discussion hearing none all in favor