 All right, welcome everybody. I am here today with Pat Steadman. Now, Pat is a dating and relationship coach for men. He says, I read people like books and help them change their story. Welcome, Pat. Thanks, Tony. It's good to be here. Tell everybody a little bit about yourself. So just real quick, I have a probably a fairly typical story for at least a lot of people who get involved in this corner of the internet. I didn't really understand anything about women when I was younger. I had a high school girlfriend. She kind of, she was very beautiful, but she sort of picked up me. So we had a relationship and I was very needy and kind of, some people would call it beta. And eventually that relationship ended and she broke up with me and I was completely devastated. I had no idea how I had gotten her and I had no idea how I would ever get a girl as attractive as her again. And so I was walking down the campus one day and I saw the game in the bookstore and without going into the details of the whole story, it's kind of, I got exposed to a whole different world and the idea that I could change who I was entered into my mind. And so I really went deep into it. First I was actually kind of trying to get her back, but then it just became like I got, I'm gonna date women and I'm gonna get good at this and really got a lot of my mentorship from people at the social man. So that'd be Christian Hudson, but particularly Nick Sparks. I trained at Nick and learned a lot about basically in-person attraction from him. And my start as a coach, I got into that area because at this point I was doing really well with women. And then I started to get serious with a girl who I would later marry. And I wanted to get into entrepreneurship and I was kind of like the biggest poster at that time and Nick Sparks is private group. And basically I put out there like I wanted to get into business, I didn't know what I wanted to get into. And they encouraged me to get into coaching because they said, you know, you've really been just been helping us out so much over the last two years. So I did it and I haven't looked back since. Okay. Well, that's a pretty good story and a good start to a sounds like a successful business. What is your most, I guess, asked question as a dating coach? Well, recently a lot of people have been asking me about girls and their lay counts and stuff like that. Most asked question in general though, most asked question throughout my career and things that I think most guys struggle with is anxiety and being able to, and that manifests as approach anxiety. But I think to really just stay kind of an anxiety around women in general and an issue with dealing with tension. Because if you look at escalation, people are like, well, I have a hard time approaching or they're like, well, I have a hard time escalating. But really the entire process, I mean, you can look at the entire, you know, seduction process as a series of going from tension, trust, tension, trust, tension, trust. And most guys really struggled to manage tension, to manage that energy within them. And so the same thing that stops a guy from being able to approach is the same thing that stops him on a deeper level from being able to, you know, go for the kiss or take her home. Okay. Now I want to ask you a question about the red pill. Would you consider yourself red pill or red pill? Well, I would consider myself red-pilled. I wouldn't necessarily, I wouldn't call myself red pill. I don't really associate with that label because they're, I think that the label has been sort of sullied. And I don't know, when people say that they're red pill, I'm always like, well, what do you mean by that? Because there's, one person's red pill is not another person's red pill. So there are some, you can call them like maybe the bitter red pillers and they will take an awareness of how women operate on a sort of like, what is the darker sexual impulse of a woman? What is a woman's sort of biological imperative, you might say. And they take that, but the problem is that they fixate on it. They don't integrate it. They don't see it in a broader context. And so the, basically I just don't think that they help guys to get better with women because by fixating on a narrow truth, they actually miss a bigger truth. And they're, I don't think that their direction leads guys to any sort of semblance of a good life with women. So I think it's important though to understand that. And where the mainstream goes wrong is the mainstream tries to pretend that this part of women, the shadow, and that's really how I like to describe it. I mean, the red pill, hypergamy, this is like the female shadow. And that's a thing that a guy needs to understand if he's not gonna get burned from a woman, burned by a woman, but if he just simply stays there, then that's not how you build a relationship. And it's not necessary to stay there. There's so many labels in the man's sphere. Everybody's labeled red pill. And what you maybe described would be called black pill. Is that correct? Isn't that kind of, like if you say when somebody kind of stays in that either angry state or that state where all women are bad, isn't that more of a black pill? That's a really good way to put it. Yeah, I mean, I usually see black pill in a political context, but it's true that you could make a strong case that a lot of these so-called red pill people are really just blackpilling. All this said, there are things, like I consider the red pill to be really fundamental knowledge, but the stuff that I do with my clients goes a bit beyond it. And I think that there's a context towards the red pill and it's a lot of the stuff that I'm going to be covering in the book. I'm trying to write a little slow the last two weeks, but we can talk about that, but the red pill to me is something that's necessary, but it's not the full picture. Okay, so you're using it as a tool, basically. It's one of your tools in your toolbox. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. I explore a lot of different, I suppose you could say different groups or different ways of dealing with stuff with women. I think that a lot of the things I've been looking at now, like I get a lot into deeper psychology, like Jungian psychology, internal family systems. So I do a lot of trauma healing with clients on top of the stuff I would do that's more tactical and that has to do with an understanding female psychology. So I wear a lot of different hats and I think it's one of the reasons that I do really well with clients because I can take them through almost every stage that they would go through with a woman, like really deep serious relationships, whether it's or whether it's harems or whether it's just going up and trying to date girls. I've sort of gone through the whole cycle and I understand where guys get stuck along the way. And so if I feel like, okay, this guy has some anxiety issue and just kind of talking through with him that's not working. So then I'll look for things that maybe would work. And I also, a lot of these things I've used on myself. So I'll work with people if I feel like they have something really interesting to teach me and I'll take it. And if it makes a shift in me, then I distill it and I pull it kind of into my broader toolbox. So. Gotcha. Yeah, that's interesting. Let me ask you another question. You have two different men, one's 21 and one's 51. Do you approach those guys different? Well, yeah, I mean, I think that, so the fundamentals are always the fundamentals. That doesn't change regardless of your age, but, and this is actually, it's a really good question, Tony, because I think one of the big problems with a lot of dating and relationship advice, and this includes a lot of things that you hear in the red pill, is that there's not a lot of context to how it's used. I am all about context. I don't think that you can actually determine the truth unless you understand the context of the situation because the truth is going to be like, how to approach something, what to do is based on that context. Okay. So a 51 year old, like man is gonna be in a much different stage of life than a 21 year old kid, right? It's very, very different. 21 year old's probably gonna be in college. So he's going to have to be dealing with the social dynamics of, college is a very specific tribal structure. So he's gonna have to understand the tribal structure of the school and how to, the social circle game is extraordinarily important in college. A lot of the cold approach stuff becomes more valuable outside of college, but in college itself, especially in moderate sized schools, you have to protect your reputation a lot. And so the big thing is really trying to get into the scene. So for kids in college who I've worked with, that's where we focus on and we do deep work as well. The other thing, of course, which is fortunate about somebody who's younger is that the psychological stuff is much easier to move. If you're dealing with someone in their 20s who has some psychological stuff going on, some baggage, the chances of moving through it are pretty much certain. If they're in their 30s, it's gonna take a little bit more work, but it's still totally doable. 40s, it starts to get tough. And 50s, it can be really hard to shift a guy's mental state, an emotional state, because there's been so much accumulated baggage. But for someone in their 50s to answer the question more directly, you're not going to obviously be talking about that tribal structure. And for him, his social system is gonna be very different. A lot of his people in his network are gonna be married. So he's either going to have to go to like kind of get specific spots where he knows that the women he's interested in are gonna go to and kind of make himself a regular there to meet women that way. He's going to either, or he's gonna have to, I mean, if he has a bigger network, he can still meet other women, but he also has to be aware that maybe there's gonna be some divorced women in the mix. If he's dating much younger, there are things he can do for his profile online if he wants to do that. But yeah, the context around what he's gonna be doing, and also, of course, another piece of context is what is he looking for? Is he divorced? And he's just looking to hook up with some attractive younger women. But wouldn't that be probably a guy in his 50s that's reaching out for dating coaching has probably just had some trauma? Most likely has gone through a divorce, I would imagine. Been married 30 years and then it's over. That most likely or the end of a serious relationship. Also, I have had people, guys though who have, I mean, the range of my clientele, I go from guys who are virgins and have a really hard time. They've never done anything with a girl. They've had a hard time even talking to girls for a while. I've gone to that to guys who are excellent with women. Like they've, you know, very, very wealthy, you know, like Christian Gray kind of stuff. And but their problem is more of a quality issue that they're not attracting the women that they really want or they have a hard time creating the sort of relationship that they want with a woman because of some emotional blocks. So it goes from some sort of like basics to very advanced stuff. And some of the guys have been in their 50s on the latter category. Okay, so you would coach a man also that's getting a divorce. And I'm gonna add to this question. What about, have you just ever told anybody or not getting a divorce or having a, let's say he's having a problem with his marriage. Have you ever told anybody it's over? That's it. Like, get out, get out. I always make it clear that people are gonna make their choices. Like one of the things that I do with coaching is I don't, you know, a lot of people think coaching is, I'm gonna give you some advice about something. This, I'm gonna tell you what to do. And that's what some people do for coaching. I don't really think that that's effective. And it certainly doesn't allow you to, I mean, maybe it does some things, but I mean, a lot of people kind of know, I mean, they've read stuff and maybe you put a little bit more force to it and your energy makes them accept it a bit more. But really what people make bad decisions, not usually, partly because of knowledge, but a lot of it is really just emotional patterns. Like they can't receive it. So if someone's in a really dysfunctional relationship and they're having problems, they wanna get it fixed, they kind of already know that they should leave it and I can tell them what's going on and that this is where it's going. But I'm also aware that they may have to work through the pattern and so the way that I kind of describe it is, it's like I'm throwing a rope around them and they're gonna go in the quicksand. So I'm like, I know you're gonna go in the quicksand. So here's the rope, like I got you and I'm gonna tell you what's gonna happen. And so go ahead if you wanna experience it, go and experience it, but experience it with awareness. So understand what's occurring and that makes like guys really start to learn from that cause they'll go and it's like the hot stove, I'm like, you touch that stove, you're gonna burn yourself. They're like, yeah, but like, I mean, maybe you're right, but I have to touch it. It's like, okay. Whereas, but now they understand like, yeah, don't touch the stove. So in the context of like a relationship falling apart I will tell them what the situation is, but they always have to make their own choices with it. But if a guy comes to me and he's like, can you save my marriage? I will, I don't ever say that to people. I don't ever agree to that. What I say is that my job here is to make you into the kind of guy that can have a good marriage. And I'm gonna show you what you can do to lead her. And to lead this relationship in a different direction. But at the end of the day, it's up to her if she wants to come along. And I can only guarantee that if you do the work that your life is gonna get better, I can't guarantee that the relationship is going to be, you're gonna save the relationship. Cause unfortunately also a lot of guys come to me after things are already, not all, but many come to me when things are already pretty critical. So it's like, I got stage four cancer, can you save me? Like, well, it took a long time for you to come in. Do you ever find that somebody's not telling you the truth? In other words, they're just, they're not, you're putting it together, but something's just not right. And they won't actually tell you everything they need to tell you. Absolutely, absolutely. Sometimes it's because they, sometimes it's not because they're, they're not like lying to me usually, but they were withholding information. And I ask a lot of questions with people cause I really want to understand, like I said, like the context is really important if I'm gonna help them. And so I ask a ton of questions to try to really understand the situation. If somebody is not giving me information, I can tell it there's a discrepancy. And I have, sometimes it's there because there's a lot of shame and there's blocks. And so I can help to, I can dig it out. Like people don't put things past me. But I tell clients coming in basically that you're not going to be able to hide stuff from me. So don't waste our time and just tell them. Yeah, it makes sense because if they're not telling you everything that's going on, how can you help them? Yeah. They might be looking for a specific outcome in trying, basically trying to, to, I guess, just kind of trick you into thinking, okay, this is what's happened. But I guess if you ask them the specific questions, you can find that out pretty easily. Yeah, and the good news, Tony, is that at this point in my career, I've started to polarize my audience pretty well. So whereas two years ago, I would get more guys like that who were just as far as I'd just be blunt, kind of full of shit and would kind of talk to me like they're full of shit. Now, Mike, my sensor is even more aligned to it. And those people usually don't even reach out because they just, I don't know, I mean, you know, I don't want to toot my own horn. Maybe it's just somebody else that they would prefer to work with. But let's just say that's not, I'm not the kind of person that they think about going to. And if I get somebody who comes in, you know, I'm pretty good at saying the standards for them or pushing them out. Like I don't want to work with them if they're really just have no self-awareness. So I've been getting your emails. I've looked at your websites and I noticed you do, you handle all spectrums of dating, relationships. Let's talk about something that probably, I'm gonna say probably maybe 60% of all men are doing and that's online dating. So how do you coach a guy with that? Well, online, so people, you know, I think every guy, if they're being honest with themselves they're going to every coach, right? Every guru in this corner, they're gonna emphasize that there's certain areas that they're better at than others. For instance, if a guy is, you know, big dream with women is they wanna be like a hardcore, cold approacher and they wanna approach women on the street, they wanna be like day game king. You know, I'm good. I'm proficient in day game. I've picked up girls off the street. I've dated girls I picked up. I am not, you know, crowdsor, right? And I would never pretend to be. So if somebody really wants that, you know, either they should only work, you know, they should work with somebody else in that capacity or they should maybe work with both of us, whatever. But my two big things that I really excelled at were social circle game and online dating. So social circle, I mean, I just, I know how to build networks very, very quickly, make lots of friends. And I've kind of went from the bottom of that of like having no friends to being really big with that. So I also understand how to go from like zero to hero, so to speak. But online, I also did really well at. And I think it's because I'm very good at reading subtext and making inferences about people. And I've also got a good cadence for writing. So with clients, one of the big things I'll do with clients, and for the record, I want to say, I don't think that guys should rely on online dating. I like it as like a portion of the portfolio. I think of it like an investment portfolio. I like it, you know, as maybe being 20 to 30%. It's good for guys who especially more attractive guys to get leads and to get some practice, but you're always going to be getting lower quality than you would be gaining in real life online. So it just, that needs to be understood by people. It is the low hanging fruit and, you know, the low hanging fruit isn't the right. Why is that? Why is that? Well, you know, you think about it with anything. Where, what has the lowest barrier to entry is going to get the most mediocrity, right? To be great at anything, to get like the best rewards, you have to be, you have to excel in a niche that other people are not willing to go into. So for instance, the guys who get really good at day game, I mean, you will meet girls who you would never meet otherwise, right? And you can attract them. That's a skill that other guys don't have. And so, and people aren't willing to put the work in. I mean, if you're doing cold street approach, that is a lot of work. That is a, so, so there's that. Whereas everybody, like your average person is just going to go online, right? So it's easy enough to throw up a profile. A girl who doesn't really have much of an interesting life. Like the really, the girls that have really interesting lives and have a lot of stuff going on. And yes, I'm generalizing, of course, there's exception. But they're generally not going to go online because they have bigger social circles and they're meeting, you know, cool people through that. So you just kind of have like a lot of mediocrity that goes online. And, you know, I don't think it was always quite that way. But now it's so mainstreamed that, yeah. And women also, there's three times as many guys as women on there. So women are getting like deluged by messages. And so their own self-importance is inflated. So, but one of the things I work on with guys is making their profile really, really tight. And also reading girls' profiles and helping them to understand like who this girl is. When you see this girl, what do you notice about her? Making inferences based on what she's written, where she's been, how she looks, how she dresses. So that can be really good to help guys across the board with reading people and making assumptions. And so yeah, that's a piece that I do. Also helping with messaging, although tackling texting my book, does a job of going into that, it's like $5. Tell me about that. It's called, you're the author of Tackling Texting and the 14-Hour Course, the Pat Steadman Masterclass. Yeah, so I have two things out right now. Got a book coming out in a couple of months. That's like, that's gonna be like a real proper book. I look at Tackling Texting, which is my first published piece. It's a book, but it's really more of a manual. And I say that not to downplay it because it's really good. Like it takes you from when you get a girl's number or when you match with her all the way to the date, gives examples, it goes through deeper sort of principles to hold and gets very, very tactical. But it is like a manual. It's something that you can reference really easily and go through it. So I think it's wonderful, but I kind of put it in that box. Then I have, of course, the Pat Steadman Masterclass and that's a more premium thing. My coaching clients also work with that. And that's 14 hours. It's actually about to get expanded to probably close to 20 hours. So if, and the price is gonna go up a bit, it's 500 now, so if people get it now, they're gonna get grandfathered into the new content. So, but at any rate. I have a question for you about texting. And this is, because I've been asked this question and I've been asked this by different guys. I don't wanna say do any coaching, but because people know that I'm involved in the Manusphere and involved with men in 21 convention, they reach out to me for advice just by, just because I'm involved in that. And they've asked me, can you escalate during texting? I mean, should you escalate during texting? I know I do, but I've had that question asked to me, what's your deal on that? So when you say escalate, you mean like sexually escalate? Yeah, sexually and basically escalating either can be sexually or escalating to actually move the date forward. Cause most guys who do online dating know that a lot of women are just, they just wanna chat to get past the chat buddy. Okay, gotcha. So my, a little spoiler, the two key things to keep in mind with texting is that you only text a girl to get her on a date or to add value. And the only reason you add value is to get her on the date. So it's really everything goes back to Gaynor in person. It is one of the worst things that guys do is that they don't have any sort of direction with their texting. It's they let the girl sort of dictate the aimless pace of things. And the girl doesn't want that. I mean, she'll take the attention and she'll go and chat with you at least for a while until she gets part of it. But it's a totally a way to kill the attraction. So everything with texting is the spike. It's like the spike attraction. And then when you get that investment to use that investment to move forward towards the date. Everything that you're doing is towards that trajectory. So yeah, I'm very everything. The book is basically designed to get the girl on the date. That's the entire purpose. Sexting is more of an advanced skill. And frankly, I think it's optional. I mean, like I've done it and I've done it well. And, you know, I've had girls come from my words. But for a lot of guys, they want to get to that. And it's just, you can do that in person, right? And there's a lot of, if you don't know what you're doing, you're more likely to mess things up from sexting than you are to improve your situation. So I don't consider it an essential piece, but it can be fun. So what you're saying is don't send a dick pic right off of that. Don't send a dick pic. Unless your dick is huge. Don't send a dick pic. Don't send a dick pic. That's funny. Also, I noticed you seem to be a pretty spiritual guy. And reading your stuff, you're into like, and I don't know, I guess, I don't know if you're Christian or not, but you are a spiritual guy, but I notice you talk about any vibrations, low and high vibrations. How does that all work into what you're doing? Well, it's a big part of, it's like a little bit of a teaser for the book coming out, but energy is, okay, so let's try to, like a lot of people get scared off by this because they think it just sounds like nonsense. It's woo-woo, they're very rational. They wanna know the facts. If I do this thing, I should do this thing. And then maybe they move towards, okay, this is female psychology, and so they can rely on psychological triggers. But when you start to talk about energy, it's like, what is this guy talking about? Now, how can I use it? Like they can't even relate to it. Seems impractical. But at the same time, there's an acknowledgement that there are naturals, right? There are guys who are good with women, got no idea what they're doing, but they're just good with women, right? And from the guys who really get experience out in the field, people like Krauser, right? They will start to acknowledge that, well, really what she's looking for is your vibe. That's what she's drawn towards. And they're like, okay, I kinda get it, you gotta improve your vibe. But a lot of people fall short with it and they get, they go into things like, you gotta get in state. For the record, I'm not against that, I think, but when people say you gotta get in state, well, all they're saying is you gotta raise your energy level. So there's implicit acknowledgement that energy plays a role with this stuff. It's that if you approach it, or in that vibration, because vibe is vibration, but people get scared off when you sort of use more of these hippie terms with it. But the reason it matters is because, based on where your energy level's at, and I can explain this a little bit, but based on where your energy level's at, is going to determine everything about how you should approach a woman and about basically where her own kind of psychology's at. So you can sort of distinguish it between low, middle, and high. Low vibration stuff is like where you would get, the very bottom you have like shame and guilt, you're gonna have things like lust, you're gonna have anger, you're gonna have a lot of the things that are often classified as sins, but are really just like pain points that people pretend to project outward or project inwards. They don't feel very good about themselves. And when people are in this lower level, then they're much more influenced by biological triggers, right? Biological triggers, something like a guy being rich, a girl who's a low vibration and a low vibration, a low vibration woman is gonna be like, oh, they're gonna care about that. Or they're gonna care about, to an inordinate amount status, right? It's not that as if these things never matter, of course they always matter, but there's a greater emphasis on them, on these lower areas because there's less awareness and there's more emotional trauma. And so a lot of the red pill describes women at their lower vibration stage. Now, as you get towards mid-vibration as a guy, most of the guys in the manosphere who are outside of that bitter corner are gonna be clustering around here. And it's really like you can, if you were gonna separate into low and high, you would consider the mid to be high because this is where people have jumped into courage, they're moving away from fear-based behavior and they're taking risks. Like the guy who says, I need to get better with women, I'm gonna start cold approaching, he's moved into courage. So he's moved out of that lower victim field. And here things in this midfield, things get a little bit more muddled because you have now, you have the biological aspect of women that still plays a big role, but then you also have more other higher things. And you can see that a woman is not just defined, the women who are in this sort of area, they're not just like gold diggers, right? But if you lose your job and you kind of fall off the wagon, they might start to move away, right? So there's more of like a mixed thing in there. And that's where most of my work has taken place. But there is also on the higher end and when you move towards the higher end, it's really like you're motivated by really just joy and love and you're very positive and just really making people feel love for themselves around them. And when you move to this level, relationships are very, very different. I mean, and it's not to say that it's a spectrum, right? And you're dealing with pockets constantly from the lower areas, but some of the things that people talk about, like this is how you get a girl, it's like this is how you get a girl when she's at this vibration state and you're at this vibration state. But when you change it and you go further up, it's not gonna work on a girl, so. So yeah. I mean, would that apply to, let's say you're on a first date, let's say I'm on a first date. And within five minutes, I can tell I don't wanna be here another five minutes. Is that kind of what you're talking about too? Is it like I'm getting just a horrible vibe from her? And can we mistake that for the hell with it? I'm just gonna have sex with her anyways, low vibration, high vibration, you know what I mean? I mean, that can be an option also, can it? It can, right? I mean, this is the thing. To thine own self be true. For some guys, or at least in some situations, that's what he's looking for and he'll go forward and he'll do it. It'll be fine with it, right? It won't make a difference to him. I found a lot of guys will go forward with that though because they feel like they have to. It comes from usually a lack of abundance in other areas like, oh, while this girl's here and she sucks, but I wanna get my nut off. And then what tends to happen is that they either don't worry about themselves afterwards or they actually have some performance problems while trying to do the act because they're out of alignment with themselves. So, but I mean, I'm very much open to people like, I try to help people figure out their path and where they wanna go. And I think that people need to work through things and experience things in order to move past them. But 100%, I mean, Tony, 100%, when you go on a date with a woman and you can tell like, oh, man, I just do not like being around her. She's got bad energy. Maybe she's having a bad day and you caught her at a wrong time, but probably it's more of a baseline thing because even on a bad day, people usually aren't so far off from where they would normally be. Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, when you started explaining it, I wasn't quite sure until you started explaining it. I kind of what you meant, but I do know and you can get that with a friend or whatever. I mean, when you meet somebody, you can just get it, whether it's just a man friend, you can get a bad vibe from him, whether it's awkward or something off-putting to you, you know, so that's kind of cool. It's everything. It's in everything. You can see it in, you know, the difference between a politician and a statesman, there's a lot of variation with people. And, you know, I don't think some people like it because they like to put things in a really logical container, but I mean, I'm a logical person, but I'm also like, I think that reason is also a false God and that a lot of people get trapped. And I've seen people who have just destroyed themselves trying to take a materialist view of humanity and a materialist view of dating. I mean, it just does not bring happiness. Even if you get laid a lot, does not feel very good. Yeah, but you do coach guys that just want to get laid, period. Oh, yeah. Yeah, no question. I don't want to hear coaching things too. No question, but, you know, I will say that usually it's like, I need to go get, I want to like go out and play the field, but usually there's something like deeper down the line that they're interested in, usually, not always, but usually the guys who, and this is why I think it's important that people figure out who they want to work with when it comes to coaching because there are some guys who like they are, like their entire thing is based on like clubs, right? And they pick up girls in clubs and they play like a game in that area and they hook up with a lot of girls like one night stands and that's cool, like that's cool, but that's people who are going to be doing that and who are trying to run a club game and just run up notches. You know, that's, like if a guy says I want to get as many notches as possible, like we're almost certainly not a good fit because that's very different as far as I'm concerned I want to go and play the field for a bit. Okay, gotcha, okay, yeah, but that guy would probably be somebody who is not good with women at all and probably hasn't been with many women at all, I would imagine. Well, that's usually true, it's usually true because what they're doing is they're creating some sort of fantasy. They think that if they get that like, like 100, 200 notches that they're going to feel like a man. They're going to feel like women like them that they're good with women. So that does usually play a part, but there are some people who, you know, where they are sort of at with their energy and with their goals is different. And, you know, we all have a resonance towards some people or others based on, you know, we can see like this person, the way that they operate, that's the kind of relationship that's the kind of dynamic I want to have. And I think that that's where people should really, should, if you're looking for mentors, you should look at people who, if not are living how you want to live, you can see parts of them, you can resonate with their energy on a certain level that you want to go with it. So, and that all happens very unconsciously. A lot of it's just that we don't pay attention to it. Right? Yeah. Now, I've met you at 21 convention and let's put it this way, you gave me a good vibration. And one of the reasons why I could see you were passionate at what you do is there was times where people were sitting around the pool and I saw you on your phone, walking, pacing and coaching guys while you were at 21. When other guys were relaxing. So to me, I noticed those things I do. I tend to pick up certain things about people. You know what I mean? Some guys, and not saying that other guys don't deserve a vacation or to relax, but you were all business the whole time. I mean, I did see you on the phone a lot and I did ask you one time and you had said, oh, I've got a coaching call coming up. So I saw you pacing around, around the pool area. So, to me, that tells a lot about a person that they're into what they're doing. That's cool that you noticed that. It's impressive. Yeah, it's actually something I've been trying to work on is to give myself a little bit, like to really make sure I take a day off where I can really just unplug from it because I was starting to get drained. I would have some days I'd have like 10 hours straight of calls. We were talking about this, I had a coaching call before this interview. I have one in like 10 minutes. So I've been trying to, part of my own kind of growth has been saying aside more time for myself so that I can serve better. It's kind of like a boundary thing for me because we're always learning, we're always growing from this. But I really do care about, I really care about my clients. It's like, I love them, I love them. And that was real, that was obvious to me. I mean, that was obvious when I saw you. I mean, you were on the phone quite a bit. And to me, I don't think that's not disrespectful but it's respectful to your clients and everybody that you're working with. So I think that's very respectable to do that. Now you're gonna be speaking at the 21 convention and I got it right here, the 22 convention. So tell me, how are you gonna make women great again? Oh man, well, I'm still working on the details of the speeches but where I think I'm going with the 22 convention is I'm gonna be talking about basically a woman's need to do things that make herself happy, like actually happy in order so that she is not going to be trying to drain a man's energy. Because one of the things that, talking about the energy thing, I mean, if you wanna get into esoteric masculinity and femininity, men are sort of like life and women are death. And that's not in a disrespectful way. It's just like a yin-yang kind of thing that men tend to have a problem, like the man puts life into the woman who then life comes out of that and a man sort of seeks out this release, right? His labor and life is kind of like his reward is death. Men are always kind of seeking out this emptiness. And women are always seeking out to try to get energy from guys. And so you have this situation where men have a hard time controlling their energy like porn, et cetera, porn, drinking, whatever. And women have a hard time cultivating it. And so I'm gonna be talking about women really dealing with a lot of their emotional pains and emotional baggage, because the problem that women face is that they don't have honest communities like the man's fear is. The man's fear is at its worst, a little bit to rah-rah, black and white, one dimensional, but it does attempt to tell people the truth, right? On a regular basis, it's all about the truth, which is a very masculine energy, right? But in female communities, and I've spent time in them because I'm always trying to learn, okay, a lot of the energy healing stuff comes from female communities, but they tend to have a very hard time with telling women the truth and saying like, hey, this is something you have to deal with. And so in my speech, I'm gonna be trying to provide that very gently, gently, because you gotta be gentle with women. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's kinda like what you're saying, so what you're saying by that is, let's say, I mean, to me, this is just a typical example. You could have one girl who's beautiful and everybody's seen this, and then you have one girl who's completely out of shape and is an absolute wreck, and she'll say, oh, how do I look? Oh, you look great, girl, you go. You're good like you are. I mean, we've all heard that. And to me, that's almost, that's really competition between two women. Oh, yeah. That's where it is. So it's not really, oh, you're good, girl. No, it's more of a competition is what I think. Oh, you said it, Tony. I mean, they sabotage each other left and right, and it is, it's just awful. I think it's awful. But the other part of it is that if you are honest to a woman without the right, without approaching it the right way, and I'm not talking about in like, necessarily a personal relationship because at that point you should have enough buildup, but if you're just telling like a girl, like a friend, you have to be, you have to really get buy-in from them. Like whenever, like girls will ask me dating advice, and I'll be like, do you really want my advice on this? Like, yeah, I'm like, are you sure? This is like, do you really want to hear it? And then they kind of brace themselves and they're like, yes, like I want to hear the truth. And then I can tell them, then I can say like, you're not dressed well, and you need to lose 10 pounds. Right, I can say something like that, or I can say, you know, this is not what guys are looking for when you're trying to provide this, but you really have to get buy-in. Otherwise, what they do immediately is they, it just devastates them. And they'll very often, you know, and they could try to, they could try to make some sort of character assassination campaign, but the reality is I don't tell people things unless they want to hear them. I learned that lesson. And you're not doing it maliciously. I mean, when somebody says, I'd like to hear it, a lot of times they can take it the wrong way, but sometimes letting people know, and the difference is basically what you're saying is that, you know, as men, we're gonna tell women actually the way we feel and what we want where a woman speaking to another woman will sugarcoat it. And so there's gonna be no sugarcoating here, but it's gonna be a little bit gentle, so you're not, you know. Right, right. I mean, women today, they don't really have a lot of men who would tell them these things. And they don't really have, I mean, because the reality is that, okay, a woman can't trust another woman her age to tell her the truth, rare exceptions. Like one of the most rare, it's beautiful when you see it, but I feel bad for women and I'm talking to female friends, they feel the same way. It is a reason why women will often try to become friends with men, even though they're very muddied waters. But they, like, it's very difficult for a woman to find another woman her age, who she can trust, who is going to not try to stab her in the back. Whereas men, men have enemies, but they also have like brotherhoods and loyalty and whatnot. Male friendships are much more robust than female friendships. Women historically were, you know, there's all sorts of mythology around this, but older women were supposed to tell younger women the truth about how things work. And the sort of witch, like the old crone would have been, you know, the sort of middle-aged wine mom feminist today who is telling them all these terrible, terrible things is making them ruin their life, right? That would have been mythologically considered to be like an evil witch. But because that's like a lot of older women have sort of been brainwashed into it. They don't tell younger women the truth. And so that entire honesty culture has collapsed. And it collapsed for men too, but men are really doing much better job with this honesty than women are. Because I think the manosphere, one of the reasons it's really good is because it's creating a new culture of men telling the truth versus like the kind of weak, spineless guys who won't say what they want from a woman and won't dare to hurt a woman's feelings because what if she gets pissed off or gets offended or... Well, this is gonna be interesting. And I look forward to seeing you again at the 21 convention in October. Pat, tell everybody how they can contact you, reach you, all your platforms. Yeah, I'm on Twitter at Pat underscore Steadman. That's S-T-E-D-M-A-N. And also my email list, sign up for that. I usually send out about three emails a week on average. With the book, it's been a little bit slower recently, but I'm gonna kick that back up again next week. That's patsteadman.com slash optin. So patsteadman.com slash optin and at pat underscore Steadman. So, but Tony, I mean, thank you so much for having me on and I'm looking forward to seeing you at 21 and 22 con too. I think, I don't know about you. I think that this year is gonna be crazy because of all the stuff going on. I think 21 con is always good, but this year, like I really, people who are thinking, oh, I don't know if I'm gonna go, you don't wanna miss this one. Like I just feel it. I don't know why. I agree. So. I agree. Yeah. Well, it's, especially the year we've had, I mean, this is gonna be a great time, a great release for everybody. Everybody's gonna gather and just have a great time. Not only that, you're gonna learn something. You're gonna learn about yourself. You're gonna learn about relationships. So there's anything, everything good can come from it. So I encourage everybody to buy a ticket and I will leave links down below in this video for anybody wants to attend and see Pat and you can have dinner with Pat. You can have a drink with Pat. So that's the way it works with 21. There, everybody's available. Yeah, I'm very accessible. But I do appreciate your time. Yeah, for sure. I appreciate your time and I will see you soon. Yeah, thanks again. Yeah, thank you.