 Okay, all right. Hello, let's see. Yes, we do have people in the audience. Right. So, hello, I'm the chair of the transportation advisory committee and we are, we just started our meeting officially. I'm going to ask everybody who all the members who are here to please just identify yourself. It's very helpful for the minutes. And, okay. Him trim play vice chair. Marcus Smith. Okay. Okay. Joe. Just say hi. Okay. Well, Joe is also here. And another member Christine is about to sign on on her computer. Okay. Great. All right. And let's just for the official read that official announcement we need to read. Hold on. I have it if you want Tracy. Yeah, no. Yeah, I keep it too. Okay. We're pursuant to Governor Baker's March 12, 2020 order suspending certain provisions, the opening meeting law. This meeting of the transportation advisory committee is being conducted by remote participation. Right. Thank you. Kim. Okay. I do see that we have counselor Devlin got there in the meeting and since as well as referred to us from TSO. And then she provided additional guidance as well. Counselor, would you want to speak to that week? If you read, if you want to raise your hand, we can bring you in to the room. Okay. Hi, go for where you please lettering. Oh, she's in. Okay. Hi. I don't have much to add. I'm here. If folks have questions, but Andy couldn't come to the meeting tonight. And so I'm here in his stead as well to report back to TSO. And I'm sure that we'll get a memo or something from you, Tracy, before our meeting as well. But I think, Tracy, you've got a grasp on, on what we need. And I'm here if you get stuck or need any advice on what TSO would be would find myself. Well, thank you. Great. Thank you. And for anybody in attendance, we will have public comment at the end of the meeting. Okay. All right. So the first item was just to go over the backgrounds. So this was referred to as from TSO at the last TSO meeting, which was right before the Thanksgiving holiday. And they did ask for tax report. By next Thursday. So it's a pretty quick turnaround time. And I'll just pull up. I did include. I did include in that the Google folder, you know, as I was putting together materials and I also sent it out directly to the members. What was referred to as from TSO. So let me look up again. Okay. Let me share my screen. Okay. So, here we go. All right. So this is the motion that TSO passed. They passed it 4 to 0. And Councillor Devon got there was serving as the chair that day since council loops was not available. So TSO's motion was to request a recommendation report from tack regarding traffic calming measures on Henry street between Market Hill and Pine Street with a report to TSO by December 7th. And then after I received a copy of that motion. I did follow up with an email just asking if they had any additional guidance because traffic calming measures is a very broad. Term, you know, and include big things that can include small things. And I want to know a little bit about more the scope. And so the email that I received back from Councillor Devon got there is attached. And I'll just read it aloud. You know, it says in terms of guidance, I think it would be helpful if tack could discuss some options in each category of cost and scale. The most important in my opinion is that tack consider the elements of cost implementation time known impact upkeep requirements, etc. And share those consideration of those areas in the report back. So, and she also says that she knows that the council want to hear about the feasibility as it relates to costs and demands on staff time. So one thing for me when I read those kind of details, I mean, particularly, you know, given there's a quick turnaround time and that we're volunteers and we're not professional engineers like the level of detail. And that guidance seemed very high to me. And, you know, the town is looking at hiring and engineering firm to do an engineering study as is required by a mass DOT guidance. And MUTC guidance before they change the speed limit in that area and so on. And so. I think that as tack members. And again, I mean, we're just seeing this for the first time and this has been something that's been studied by some of the professionals in town for quite a while. That we just go over, you know, what our impressions are and what we think can help. But we're not what we're saying here is not going to replace an engineering study. So that's my take on it. And I know I see that Guilford trace his hands. So Guilford feel free to comment if you'd like. And you kind of said you summed it up quite nicely. So and do any other members have thoughts about this or. Should we just kind of proceed to our discussion? I can give a little bit of background. Yeah, no, I think this is good. I mean, to me, it's just something that we can do. Prior to everything getting sorted on that safety zone stuff, right? It's just something in the near term. Right. Yeah. So we could, I mean, we could say in whatever memo we write up that this is really. You know, just as a placeholder until there is an engineering study done, for example. So, um, okay. I will reshare my screen. So I did want to just give people background. I don't know if everybody on the committee is familiar with it. I spent some time up there. I went back today too. And Guilford may have additional information to add because I know that staff have been looking at it. So I'll just share my screen again. Just give like a little. So this is on Henry street. This is on Henry street north of pine street. A lot of the traffic that flows both north and south on Henry street. It starts after pine street south of pine street. And so one thing is that so this is the childcare center. And they do have parking over here. Then there is also some parking on this side. This, I believe this lot. I looked it up. This lot is owned by the town. But I did also see that there's a lot of parking there on the weekends. So maybe from tenants or other people. So I don't believe that all that parking is necessarily daycare parking. And then if you go north of the school, whoops, I went too far. That there is a second area for parking on the same side of the street as the daycare. And there is like quite a bit of slope here. So that's probably why the three cars are parked on this end and not this end because for my observation and again I'm not an expert on this site but that it seemed like it gets pretty steep to try to park over there. That's the entry down into the into this old sports field is where you're basically that yellow circle is. I mean that the yellow circle, the white circle where you're nowhere. Yeah, the slope down into the athletic field. And I think there's some parking there as also because there's a yoga center in one of the buildings across the street from the from the school. This park over here. There's a yoga center over here. Okay. At least they used to be when my son went to Cushman. Okay. Like that was. Oh, five years ago. Yeah, about then. Sorry, it's been a while now. And then, you know, so I just had pulled it up to just on the town like assessors maps. So this is a lot. You know, as Marcus is saying there's like a big field area. And then this is the lot with the like the little parking area that's just adjacent to the road and it is that area is area is owned by the town. Yeah, it is and really the strip that you see there kind of is pretty much as much as you can get into that on the far side. There on that little area of land. If you couldn't, it isn't the way you see the little jutting that's pretty much as much as you can actually get into that. I think fairly steep as soon as that. So, yeah. Oh, are you talking over here, Marcus? No, no. On this little a dash 50 59 or whatever it is. Okay. Yeah. The gradient there is fairly steep. So the strip there is pretty much as far in as possible you go. Got it. Okay. And then let's see. And I'll just also note to and came out. I'll give you the floor away. Yeah. But there is also I just went by it, but there's also a bus stop. Sign. It's the bus stop sign is right here. Near the near across the street from the area. So Kim, did you have some comments? I know you would share your videos. Yeah, no, I mean, I was just struck by the fact that the parking on the other side of the street is not even it's both, you know, the town I guess it's town right of way across the street, but there is a parking there is a bus stop, which I was assuming that that area really was maybe originally designed to be a pull in for the bus. I don't I have no idea, but there are no there's no actual like houses behind. There's just woods behind this. And so my guess is this is like a very impromptu parking parking lot. It may not even be illegal parking lot actually because my guess is the town owns it and you're not supposed to even be parking on the side of the road there. So, am I right about that? Guilford, is there parking on Henry Street? I don't think there is. You're right. This is legacy parking. People just started parking there and making more and more parking. Right. It's not even real. It's not an actual parking lot. It's own and that parcel is owned by someone else that is not the daycare. So it's a parking spot. Right. I mean, that's what I was saying about how it's full like it's full like even on the weekends from what I could see. Yeah, I saw some people parking there this weekend who clearly were just like on a hike, you know, so they weren't parking in the Cushman lots they were parking on. So, Guilford, was it originally a like for a bus pull off? Because that actually makes some sense, but. No, the school's always been there and they just had this informal parking there. And it's kind of grown over time. Okay. And so the other thing is in that area, there are both North and South on the street. I don't need to share it again, but both North and South on the street are there are school zone signs. Now, I understand that those were grandfathered in because they're not actually like official school. It's not actually official school zone. One under state statute. Well, the school zone signs typically only apply to schools like with kindergarten up. Like K through 12 is now for school zones. And also, school zones have a speed limit of 20 miles an hour. And in one of the signs, one of the schools on signs here has it like right next to schools on science has 25 miles an hour. So, so we were told they're not official. I'm not sure like who put them in and so on. And then when I was there also, I noticed that there was and it's not in the Google maps, but I noticed that there was a police like a trailer sign like a messaging sign it said go slow. And that sign was set up so that the southbound traffic would see it. There was not a comparable sign on the northbound traffic again with the assumption that I guess a lot of people are turning north on Pine Street. I mean to turning like turning on Pine Street before they get to the school. I noticed that the day that I was there. That's, I mean, particularly, I guess, because I wasn't turning on Pine Street that, you know, that Northeast Street does run right into Henry Street. So if you aren't turning, you know, you do go straight through. And looking at the speed data that was collected. So there was the one of the police officers did collect speed data. And when they were near the data near the daycare center, they collected it 3 times in February between 3 and 5pm. And then they also collected it 3 times in March. In the morning between 8 and 10 am. And 1 thing I noticed with that he had summarized the. Data just like the average, the total number of vehicles and the average speed, but I actually differentiated it out. I separated it out between the northbound and the southbound traffic. And I found, for example, that in the morning. There were, you know, more speeding traffic. I mean, more traffic going over the speed limit. I looked specifically at like 30 miles an hour and over. Going southbound and then later in the day, it was more northbound. And there were some periods, you know, where it got up to almost like 50% of the cars are more on 1 particular day. We're going 30 miles an hour or more. Yeah, I mean, it's everybody coming out of lever or market Hill Road. Going south or going to somewhere, you know. Generally out of that way. So they go to work and then they come back again. Right. But it was also really interesting because I'm. The morning study was done on what day was it was done on. March 8 Wednesday, the 8th of March, Thursday, the 9th and Friday, the 10th. And that the Friday was the day before the U mass spring break. In the morning and that 1, there were like lower traffic volume set day, but then there was also almost no speeding. That I saw. So. In either direction, basically, but and again, it was just in the morning. You know, so these are just snapshots and so the police officers traffic surveys really is interesting and helpful. I mean, he was doing it at the peak. I think it was at the peak AM and PM periods for this. The daycare. My understanding is that the daycare opens at 8, it closes at 5. On that they ask family, they asked. People kids to get dropped off by 930. And to be picked, you know, that typically people are picked up by 330, but then some kids stay for extended care up to 5. They have 3, they have 3 drop offs actually like around 3 and then. Okay, okay. So, I mean, he was just looking at, you know, these limited periods, but. You know, as part of like a bigger study that would be required to change. The speed zone signs, like you would actually need to have like 24 hour data. I'm pretty sure. And okay. So, I mean, those were kind of my main observations and I don't know if anybody else Marcus, you were a parent there and I know Kim, you biked up there. Did you have any other? No, I mean, I used to walk my child up to the school sometimes pick him up to. It used to be that like this that they, the staff would park on the other side of the street. So most of the parking was done on the same side. To try and, you know, avoid the issue, but yeah, I mean. Cars come straight up Henry street if they're going up through to lever it and shoot for your market or road. There's nothing to stop them or slow them down. No track. No, there's no interruption, right? At least coming south, they're turning onto the street, depending on where they're coming from that, you know, can really. Change the momentum or whatever, but it's, it's right for something. It always has been. I mean, the big issue for us when we were walking, our son was actually people just not moving the snow off their sidewalks. So six or one half a dozen the other. Unfortunately, that puts you out into the road and then you're, you know, having some issues. But yeah, I think we need to take a look at it and just kind of focus on the stretch between pine and market Hill is really kind of where we're at. But how can we disrupt the flow in the near term without. Impeding, you know, any future work, right? So, yeah. So does, I mean, I have some ideas, you know, because I like thinking about different options and also looking at the research about what are most effective. But if anybody else has any observations or. Thoughts, you know, before I kind of give mine my litany, I would welcome that feedback from committee members. Anyway, I'd love to hear solutions. Tracy. I don't necessarily have solutions. What are the tools in the toolbox? Right. About temporary. I was taking a look at it too, because I mean, coming from the UK, a lot of villages and stuff have the same sort of issue. So there's a lot of stuff in writing out over there about how to kind of reduce the flow and move things around and that sort of stuff. So there's a lot of opportunities here. I mean, we can, I think we're going to need to take a few right. I think Tracy you're talking about, you know, there's a few options. Right. You know, from the cheapest to the, you know, the more expensive side, you know, there's always a pros or cons to anything. So I mean, obviously I think you kind of pointed to the fact that there's already a police sign there. And we've seen a lot more of the radar signs. So having, you know, it could be just as simple as having, you know, start off with like having some radar signs each direction, right? Which would hopefully change some things. I mean, then they can go to putting in a zebra cross, what do you call it? Crosswalk. Crosswalk. There you go. Yeah. A crosswalk with some RFP. All right. So hold on. So slow down. So let's um, before we get carried away, but Kim, did I comment? Yeah, I guess I have some concerns mainly about all these solutions because an easy solution is just prohibiting. I mean, parking on the wrong side of the street on the non privately owned, Cushman owned part of the street. That just seems like really like a sensical thing to do. So none of it is actually Cushman land, right? Well, it partly is. It's all town owned land. Cushman just pays rent. Yeah. Okay. The school is a town owned building. The old, because it was the old North. I did not know that. That's why that's why there was the school's own signs that have been grandfathered in and all this sort of stuff. That's why there's the sports field down the bottom of the hill. It was all like the Cushman's old Cushman area school, you know, just the same as there's one up in, up at the crossroads in North Amherst and stuff. Yeah. So it's all town owned property. But one could easily, you know, on one side, yeah. Child parking. I mean, because that does seem very dangerous. Like I said, when my son was there, that was kind of the idea was like all the teachers would park on the far side of the street so that you wouldn't bring your kids. That, I mean, it depends on the time of day and how many, how many people use vehicles to pick the kid up versus, you know, walking like we did. It just, it fills up and it can be problematic to get to, especially given that actually, I don't know, Tracy, if you've got the, you can pick the map up. I mean, the main entrance to the school is on the south side of the school. So parking on the north side, as you pointed out, the three cars there or whatever on the picture, you actually have to go into the road where there's no sidewalk. So then come down to the south side of the school to pick up your child or anything like that. But I guess I'm just a bit concerned that the school isn't implementing common sense like practices that would enhance the safety. I mean, I think the town should definitely do something, but my concern is just that. Yeah, I agree, I think. Because, because, because, you know, for example, some of our children went to the Chinese immersion school and they had a map that town just changed things dramatically. And in response, the school ended up having a very strict policy about like, pick up and drop off, which, you know, enhance the safety for everyone in the area. You know, and schools can do things like that, right? Yeah, yeah. So is that we have to come at it from multiple angles, I believe, you know, I would say, even if, even if we do suggest that the, you know, the parking's preferentially the teachers on the other side of the street, whatever. It still doesn't stop people from speeding, you know, and they're still on the other side of the road. So, but I do agree that that is certainly part of what we would recommend. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's the word. Sorry. Because I'm, yeah, I mean, Tracy, I mean, I've thought about a lot of what you were saying Marcus. So, I mean, I think, you know, we're going to talk about like the most temporary short term, you know, compared to like building facilities or changing the road and things, which of course, I mean, it really needs an engineering study to proceed on those, but so one of the things is this go ahead, Kim. Yeah, I just wanted to say right that there have been a lot of issues we've as a committee we've gotten a lot of issues I mean, there is an inherent problem with people speeding on this road, and the lack of appropriate, you know, pedestrian safety on this road, which you know, for the most part this road is not that heavily populated, you know, but it's a known problem we've we've encountered this many, many times before as committee that people use all of Henry Street or wherever it connects to to kind of bypass downtown and speed like how like people speed like crazy on this street. I agree. So, well, and what I was saying to Kim like because you know when I drove to see it right I came up northeast street and I stayed on northeast until it turns into Henry there's really nothing to slow you down. Right before you get to pine if you're going north it says it's 20 it changes from 35 miles an hour to 25 miles an hour, but nothing in the road is changing right and I mean we know enough as a committee and you know I know enough from everything I've read is that you can't just you can't just change and this is the thing to even with having a traffic like a safety zone you can't just change the speed limit sign you actually need to do something to make the speed change. You're going to have somebody state like somebody stationed there 24 seven to do enforcement. Right. That's one of the challenges I have about the mass general law that lets you like reduce the speed limit throughout town again like unless you're actually doing things and enforcing it. And that's kind of where you get, you know, like we're talking about right, we need to make people aware of the speed that they need to be going at either by forcing them down to that speed, or making them aware of that speed or making them think twice, you know, whatever. So, you know, from like the, the police, the speed radar signs is one is a simple end. It's not cheap, but it's something that just can stand there until we figure something out so you could go, you know, all the way down to like change the priority of the turn. You know, Henry Street isn't the through street anymore. You know, the actual primary direction of travel down from is from Henry into pine. So you're actually forcing people to take that corner. And if they want to go straight on, then they need to, you know, do something, a job. I mean, it's also possibly even as simple as just painting a big, a big fat 25 in the middle of the road. And each of the directions just to remind you multiple times. There's various different ways of doing it. We know we have a problem. I mean, yeah, go on. Sorry. No, I mean, let's kind of like talk about a couple of options. Okay, so let's start. So the speed feedback signs. I'm not going to call them because there was, I read a report that came out of NHTSA. And it was a conference that looked at every, it looked at, it did a literature review of all the studies that have involved speed feedback signs that came out in late 2021. There were a number of those studies that were conducted with, with school zones, for example, you know, they did show that they do have an impact on the speeds that people are traveling up to say, at least, you know, five miles an hour different, like less or something and making people where I mean, I have one on Amity, you know, which is close to my house and, you know, when they're posted and they have the current speed limit and the posted speed limit, you have that together. You know, and some of them even have like smiley faces or frowny faces or they blink red if you're above the speed limit or whatever. They did show that they're effective. They are relatively inexpensive compared to like infrastructure changes. And it's sort of, to me, it's sort of a low hanging fruit that you could put them in there. You know, and then also, I mean, you know, the ones that were put up around town, including on Amity, they are a fixed to traffic pole, like they are fixed to existing poles. And they are solar powered. Yeah. So, you know, that's not, they're not a big maintenance thing. I don't know. Guilford would know more about if they malfunction a lot. But Guilford, do you have any comment on them? So, so that I mean, that could be one thing in Guilford. You guys have no comment. You guys are coming up with your thing. Okay. We're coming up with our thing. Okay. And so, I mean, I don't know exactly what their price that the town manager mentioned something to you about, you know, $8,000 or, I mean, I think, you know, different ones are different. But again, compared to infrastructure changes, right? That's sort of a first step. Now, if you are looking at infrastructure changes, I mean, there's a whole, I mean, I could have sent you a number of links. You know, there's tons of like toolkits and things that have been developed, just, you know, if you just search on traffic calming here, I'll show one. Traffic calming measures. You know, the MassDOT has them and the Institute for Traffic Engineers have them and NACTO, which is a, you know, the Association of City Traffic Officials have them. You know, where there's, I mean, a lot of them have to, a lot of them involve like permanently reducing the width of the street. So the research shows that the research that I've seen is, you know, when you look at different ways that you can calm traffic, if all, if what you mainly have is signage or if you have blinking crosswalks or whatever, like none of those are as effective as actually reducing the width of the street and making people slow down. Yeah, that's kind of when one of the areas, you know, like we're talking about like you change the direction. Oh, sorry, somebody has their hand up. Christine. Christine, yeah, go for it. Yeah, I was just going to say, back in the temporary solutions category, how about those big rubber speed bumps. I don't know their cost, but usually they seem like they're painted bright yellow and whatever. And they could be out there, I think, ideally coupled with a whatever you called those the speed, speed feedback. Speed feedback signs. Yeah. But I think doing a little bit more to actually slow the traffic down. You know, makes sense to me. I just wanted to offer that up as another possibility. Guilford's got his hand up. Sorry. So temporary speed bumps won't work in this area because we have to take them in and put them back out. We had them before and we've plowed them up. So it's more cost effective if you're going to say you need speed bumps and just put speed bumps, permanent ones and don't use the plastic ones. Right. And didn't this school, I thought I read something that the school tried to put out something like that or didn't you read? They have like the little, like the little kids on the signs on the side signs. Oh, I thought. Yeah, I mean, certainly, you know, that's Christine brings up a good point. Like, essentially, I think we would want to pursue more than one just solution, right? It'd be a sign plus something or speed bumps plus something or a change in the road plus something, you know, just so that it's a kind of hit it with two two areas. My concern with speed bumps, especially that the permanent ones is just the noise they create. Depending on where we would want to site them because there's no point in putting a speed bump outside the school because then people are at speed until the school ride. You'd want to break up the flow of traffic prior to the school on either side so that you slow people down in advance and then they're slow as they go through. And that puts it puts speed bumps pretty much right outside some people's homes, right? And speed bumps are noisy. So, yeah, because I mean, especially given that the bus is going through here, you just get the big, you know, as they hit them, everything goes up as they come down. This is just the thing that's signed. It's just a noisy option in my, you know, my understanding of what it is and reading up on it and everything. I mean, yeah, just they exist on the street right next. Let's hear from the person who worked with UMass transit and the PTA. Thanks. Well, I wasn't going to comment on that. I mean, but I was just going to say that if there's a concern from that, with respect to this, excuse me, not the speed, the, the noise of the speed bumps and vehicles going while vehicles go over them. I feel like we could easily pull neighborhoods that have already installed them, such as Lincoln Avenue, or even, you know, private neighborhoods, I feel like they have to me look at South Point, the boulders. And then, if people are having concerns, I haven't personally heard concerns about that. And, and from the outside of the bus, I mean, sorry, from the outside of the bus when it goes over. It's not personally that loud. I mean, inside it is, I guess, kind of inside the vehicle, but it's not really a factor to people living around there because it's, you know, it's on the inside, but it's not that loud from the outside. It's just the slowing down, you know, squeaking of brakes and stuff, but I personally feel like, and maybe I shouldn't be speaking for everyone, but I feel like most people in the neighborhood would take that over speeding vehicles, especially if the houses that are leading up to the day and people on either end are also complaining about and noticing vehicle speeding, they might be okay with that. Like if I was living there, I would probably be okay with that. So I feel like surveying people for this would also be a, I don't know if that injuring for. Yeah, getting some feedback on it. I mean, we're not saying don't have speed bumps or we're not doing anything else. That's not my point. My point was taking a different approach, right? Something that is less noisy or less, less, I wouldn't say disruptive, but just let, yeah, less noisy. And things like you were talking about, you know, putting bumps into the, into the road, so that you then have to either stop or, you know, give priority, give way to people as they're coming from the other direction, right? I mean, we have two directions of travel where coming north on Henry Street, the northbound lane continues all the way through. And if you could break that up and force people to move around it and go slow at some point, it's great. And then on the way southbound prior to the school, same deal, you've come, you're accelerating around the bend. If you're forced to then slow down to stop or whatever to move around an obstacle, it then puts you, you know, at a much slower pace to go towards the area in question. I just feel that like, yeah, anyway. But I think that's like talking about one that's like restructuring, you know, that's changing the flow of traffic there. And then also, you'd have to have something to like make sure that when you have the one way traffic that you aren't creating more of an issue. Because in some cases, when you have one way traffic, I mean, because there's no opposing traffic, it ends up making vehicles go faster. Right. So that's why you would put it in the city as like one way, you know, one way pairs and those are can be like the sort of like highways through a city or whatever. And that's why I mean, I would find a picture of them. But I mean, you know, there is, there are ways where you can just pinch it and create a center, you know, a right of way through the center of the roadway, right? Or there are ones where you block off one one lane or another so that you force traffic to move around an object. But And that can be trouble. That can be hard on, you know, different sized vehicles or emergency. Yeah, it's one. I mean, if you look at like near like Kendrick Park, for example, you know, sometime, like it's right. We Kendrick Park is now one way. And it signs, you know, there's payment markings to show that like the parts that you're not supposed to be in, or even at that roundabout right there, right? That there's a wide turning lane. Like if you were going from East Pleasant Street, like onto North Pleasant Street to go towards campus, you know, for example, that fire trucks and things could turn there, but Yeah, we're not talking about like big turns. No, something that's not going to impede the right of way. Other than it's forcing someone, I, you know, to, to, you know, there's a priority to travel, right? So someone coming one way or another, but it's still easy to go move around the object. Yeah. And let me. I mean, and so one thing that Northampton High School has done near Northampton High School on Route 9, like since there was the bicycle fatality there with the distracted driver. They've actually put up to narrow the road when they've reduced on street parking, which was across the school, but they've also put up barricades. You know, basically to make it look like, like a slow zone, you know, and to make it clear that it's more narrow here and that people shouldn't be going fast and Yeah, to put in an island. I mean, you could, I mean, that's not an island. That's more of like on the side, but even just. I mean, this is like very short term, you know, but to have like, you know, even like cone, I don't know, something that temporarily looks like more narrow. Does it look like the barricades that are around the parklets downtown and the back end? Yeah, sort of like that. Yeah. Yeah, I was going to suggest that I think that's actually a really good idea. You know, it immediately narrows the street and that results in much slower speeds. Visually, visually narrows it, even if it doesn't actually narrow it. Right. Yeah. I guess, I guess I'm not quite seeing that, but one thing I did notice when I was there, right, as part of the problem is cars are parking on either side of the street front end. So there is not as much room between the end of the cars, right, and the street. And so my thought is that's where kids are what, you know, the issue is that the street is right there and children are walking in this narrow strip that's very close to the street to begin with. So I don't know how much of that, how much of that you could actually do there. Well, and then also with the bus stop there, too, like I would be like you can't really. You couldn't, I don't know where you would put those barriers, if that's what we're talking about because, because also cars are front end parking, you know, there so they have to back out, you know, presumably into the street, and potentially into a barrier, right. So it shouldn't occur right in front. Wouldn't we want ideally wouldn't you want the slowness to occur. Like as you're approaching. That's true. It seems like it's further afield from where the actual parking is. Right. Unfortunately, though, our houses, at least coming northbound it's right in front of people's homes. Yeah, right. Yeah, in their driveways and driveways. Yeah. I mean, I do like that idea. But yeah, I mean, yeah, the driveway thing is, it's problematic. Oh, because even, you know, I thought I looked at stop sign, you know, potentially a stop sign, you know, situation to which I did have images of that and there are like driveways right all over there's like essentially a place where there's a T right where Are you talking about back at tying. Yeah. And there are people's like driveways all over there. And like, you know, there's someone's driveway essentially a right across where that car is right. Right. How would you put a stop and there's one right where the where the other car is right now in the middle of that there's somebody else's driveway right there. So I don't see how, you know, you could slow things down. I mean, it just makes putting a stop sign and they're very complicated. Can I ask a technical question of Guilford about the temporary speed bumps. Guilford, are you available for a technical question. Yes. So you said that it's just expensive because those temporary speed bumps need to be removed every time you're plowing. Is that what you had said was the difficulty with those temporary speed bumps. The really good ones cost almost as much as an asphalt one and then you're just taking it in and out all the time. And you take it out in the fall and you put it back in the summer spring and stop snowing. So can I share something. Sure, please. Sorry. So this was the sort of idea. I was talking about where you just forcing, you know, a bump out into the road. Marcus, I'm not sure I can't. No, I haven't. I haven't done it yet. I clicked my screen, but then I didn't actually hit the thing. It's operator error on the largest scale. So, you know, generally the direction of traffic is going this, you know, is going into the page, right? So this would be one or another. There's a, you know, some nice just bump of something with a sign in the middle of it to make sure you realize it's there, but you're giving way to the oncoming traffic. So, and then it's just that all it is, is that bump, or there is, you know, something similar kind of on the pinch point side, obviously not this extreme, but where you come in, you narrow the road straight up there. I mean, that I had thought about tying this sort of pinch point idea in with a speed table to cross the street, but then what are you crossing to, you know, the most obvious point is to the front door, but that's not where anybody, nobody uses the front door of Cushman Scott. They all use the south door. And if you did that straight across there, you'd actually take away parking and the bus stop on the other side. So that doesn't work. So, and then you're just slowing people at the point there rather than slowing them prior to them getting into it. But I mean, to me, this sort of idea on the right here, you put it for traffic going northbound, you know, to break it up as they enter the area and the same one southbound as they enter the area just beforehand. It just makes people think about it. But to me, that's kind of on the upper end of cost and things, right? You know, I mean, that can be challenging, I think, with like certain size vehicles. So if we're looking at, I guess, so we're moving on, it sounds like from the temporary solutions to looking at like infrastructure, like changing infrastructure. Well, I think, I mean, when I say temporary, I'm just thinking of something that we can do right now. And we know is going to go away in the end, right? So if you met, you know, if you put a bunch of asphalt on top of this and put a couple of flower pots on it, that's as temporary as you can get, but you can get rid of it easily when the final, final idea comes through, you know, it's not something where you're digging up the road to sort it out, you know. Actually, that could even be a Jersey barrier, but yeah. So, I also think like the major, you know, it seems to me, and maybe some of you who drive through there know this because I don't drive through there the major speed, like people who are using this as a shortcut, like you said are the people coming down and probably are people coming down from the hills and using this as a cut through to go maybe to UMass or also just to proceed to bypass town on Henry or street. Is that true? Like and then. Yeah, absolutely. People coming using the rest of Henry or northeast street to kind of as a bypass and that just plowing through there to go back up to lever it, right? Mm hmm. So, you know, you know, to me, they're, they're to interrupt that flow a bit. One option would be to put a stop sign on one end of that T intersection between whatever that road that Cushman market is on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Henry proceeding north, northbound. You wouldn't have a three way into so it would just be a one way. Yeah, no, that's yeah. Yeah. And then one at the other end of the coming down from lever it proceeding on to that. I don't know. There is. So, yeah, I mean, it depends on how you get. I mean, I don't know if Tracy got the map if you pull the map up. I mean, I'm trying to like bring it up. The problem is, you know, if you if you take the corners correctly from Bridge Street into Henry, you can keep up a good pace going through that street. I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah. Just, just the way that everything is, is kind of like northeast street in that it's all kind of, no, not North Pleasant Street. It's kind of like, you know, how we've got all the banked curves and everything. It's just that whole intersection Bridge Street Market Hill Road Henry Street is all fairly banked. Yeah. Yeah, conducive to a continuance of your momentum through the if we're going to get fancy. Right. But yeah, I mean you could turn Market Hill Road Henry Street into some form of stop sign. What do you mean about up here? There is a stop sign here. Yes, going north. Yes, there isn't one for anybody coming up Market Hill Road or down Market Hill Road. It's just purely a normal intersection. That's that's what I'm saying is if you're coming off Bridge Street, if you can have us right, you don't actually lose momentum really going then down Henry Street. So your proposal would be to have a three way stop up here something I don't know. You know, the point is we're trying to break people's momentum through this street, you know, I do like the, you know, the idea of just having that northbound stop sign because that's kind of just, yeah, makes everybody pause on the way up. How do you address it on the way to me in the north. But that's where but that's where Kim was saying that it's like complicated because No, it's not having a three way, but we don't need a three way intersection. You're just trying to stop the traffic going northbound. Just at that one. It's not, it might be complicated. I don't know what the rules are because I think there's a house with a driveway pretty much across the street. We just showed like how there's two, like there's one on this side and one right where you'd put the right where you would put that right up side. There is nothing there. Correct. It's right before one of the driveways. I mean that doesn't need the engineering standards. But we're talking to have this is still in the temporary solution right. Yeah. Okay. If it's still a temporary idea. I mean, Guilford, do you want to say anything? If you moved us on, I totally missed it or I just got no, no, no, no, no. I mean, I was, I was, I was figuring that if by the time you install a stop sign that it's not just a temporary thing. Technical question. What's the timeline that we wouldn't be looking at for installation of a stop sign. So you guys, do you want my comment Tracy? Sure, please. So basically you've chosen a bunch of options, which for us to install requires an engineering study and compliance with requirements of various state and federal rules. Even Marcus's temporary thing, you do have to design and engineer it and you have to justify why you did it. You just, it's just not something to be installed. No, I understand. I mean, I'm being right so that the having the speed feedback sign is about all you can do. Having the speed feedback sign is something you can do. And as you, as you pointed out in the conversation, the study show they're only effective for a short period of time. And then they recommended to be taken down and then put back up at another period of time, which is doable here because school, you could, when schools, when UMass is not in session, you could change it and move it around. And it actually shows too that when you remove signs, like if you look at that, like make the meta, you know, study with all the literature that there's a few things is one, that even if you remove the speed feedback signs that the vehicle speeds don't automatically increase again, right away. Right. I mean, it can be like effective for up to like even a few years, like after they're removed, but um, yeah, I wanted to, if you could send me your link over because I couldn't find that is that in that. Is that in that document about the document about the master T document about the procedures in this one. Can you see that the, the procedures and is it in that. If you read the bomb, it says that they shouldn't. They know I know it's intensity. I've been looking at it. Then it is talking about. Are you talking to in this section about it. Safety zones are totally different. They have the end is a section on those driver feedback. Oh, right. Sorry. Oh, here right here. But so actually so go for this guidance came out before that and it's a study that I was quoting. So I don't know whether they would update it like based on that. Not sure they would. Oh, sure. Well, we're seeing the same thing. It's like, as soon as people get used to something. They, the speeds go back up and you have to do something else. So temporary things do. Things can be moved around or actually probably more conducive. So, right. And we are, I mean, our guidance is temporary, right? Because there is going to be a study. But I think you're talking about the fact Guilford. But that study is going to take a year or so. And in that timeframe, people are going to get used to it. But there are. Can we attach these things to telegraph poles. You cannot. Because there's a ton of them, you could just move them, you know, up one pole and down one pole and that one pole and down one pole. And that's going to take a year or so until you blue in the face. Anna has her hand up. You're on mute, Anna. No, I got to turn her on. Hold on. Thanks. It's always great when Guilford is the one who decides whether or not I get to talk. So, okay, can I just, I'm trying to just screw my head on straight here. And I'm glad my camera is not on because I'm sitting here looking at looking at this with the most confused face. Okay. I'm going to go back to the back story. So just to, to make sure everyone's got the back story here. The council voted to approve the implementation of safety zones. And that's something that we will be coming to tack for feedback on, but in order to create a safety zone, you have to first create the, like the requirements for one. Right. And so that would be what we come to tack for. That are struggling with the speeding in front of the school. While we also concurrently are going to work on creating the safety zone stuff because we know that's going to take longer. But what I'm hearing Guilford is basically what you're saying is that there is no temporary measure we can take other than those speed notification signs. Until we have a safety zone. So I think where my challenge is like, where, where, what communication loop didn't happen to not just say that up front, because I mean, we're an hour into this meeting. And we're, I'm trying to figure, is that true Guilford is, is really the only thing we can do before we have these safety zone policies established is put up a speed sign. Technically. Yes, because even if you do, you can do in the safety zone, the safety zones of study in itself and then putting in raised crosswalks are putting in channeling devices, which is Martin, which is Marcus is talking about. You need to do a engineering study for you that so you have justification. I mean, if someone has an accident there when you do this stuff, you have to have a back a reliable reason why you did it and you can say that. You can't address their accidents that happen there now. But you also have to be careful how you address this. If you want to put it in, but then again, the council, if the council just wants to vote put it in, you can put it in but the recommendation from my recommendation will be not to do until the studies are done. Okay. Now, what do you see as a timeframe for the studies. Yeah, we have a, we have a scope of work from the consultant. Paul has said we can go ahead and do it. So we'll probably get the task order out next week or the week after because of vacations and vacation or holidays and so forth. So they'll be ready to start and I think they had a, they had a two or three, two months, two or three months turnaround on it. So, but go for it. Sorry. Last question. Thank you for giving me the time. Tracy. You just said something that I think is the loophole that I'm trying to make sure is there is I'm just trying to confirm whether is or is not there, which you said if the council decides to put it in without a study. Is that what you said that we could do that as keepers of the public way. You can, but then you were totally liable for anything that happens and you have no justification for why you did it. It's understandable. So I think what I'm going to say to tack is that it would be helpful if you would give us the recommendation to do or do not do that. And I, you know, I think that would be something that keeps coming up as the topic of discussion of should the council just supersede the recommendation and be liable and I'm not going to take a position on that right now but that I think would be something helpful to hear from tack is in your opinion should the council supersede that. That process. I think that's all I've got for now. Thanks. Do not looking for solutions beyond just the simple right. The speed signs and the, you know, whatever. So. Yeah, I mean, I have to say personally, I mean, we, we could go around because it sounds like that's the feedback that. The council is asking for, but I mean, I do not feel comfortable like not like following a professional engineers advice. And I, I mean, we're an advisory committee. You know, we advise and the council can do what it wants is. As go for the same, but I mean, I mean, there are reasons that the studies are done too. You know, and it's also come up that, you know, there's also other places that also feel like they need traffic calming. Like we hear from neighborhoods all the time. I mean, neighborhoods throughout town. So. You know, I don't know if that was where the town. I mean, I think this was actually requests that came. Traffic calming this area was actually a request that came through the JCPC. Like resident request process last year. For 2020. You know, the 1 in the spring for 2024, but again. Personally, I'm not going to take a stance against like what the professional engineer in the room is telling us. So. I think so, I think we just need to go around the route, like you were saying, right? Go around the room. And. Decide. I mean, each provide input as to whether we feel comfortable. With. Opening the town to the liability, given what we understand. Right. Or for actions beyond what we've talked about, right? So. We understand that we can do we can do something and we can put in signs and that sort of thing to get people to. To be aware, but we, we understand that that's. In all in this process, and then the process you said, Guilford was, you know, we're likely to at least. Get things moving along here fairly shortly. So it's not like we'll be waiting years, which was my initial concern, which I am very. So, yeah, I mean, before Marcus, before we go around the room. So Guilford, you had said, right, that the consultant would be hired soon, probably, and that there would be a two to three month time frame. So like, when do you think that it would come back like would be ready for. You know, viewing from the council and the public about what the findings of the consultant. Two to three months. Right. So it would be like by the early spring, like spring sometime would be spring. Yes. Well, I mean, is it fair to have anyone or any traffic study done. Over the next, I mean the next two months, UMass is not in session, essentially. They don't come back until February. I don't think UMass is the problem. Right. It is part of the issue, but it is not the sole cause, but it is a big factor, like it is a big driver of the traffic volume in the area. And again, like there was an observation, you know, it's just one observation, but when that police officer was doing the traffic speeds and it just happened to be the day before spring break, like it was a lot less. Yeah, I'm just thinking the fact that people that come from Leverett and Shoesbury and Market Hill Road. Aren't necessarily of a student persuasion, right? They're more of a professional persuasion and they go to UMass outside of those hours, you know, time of year. So I think. Absolutely. Traffic on the road will be less. Absolutely. But I think we can't just, you know, say, oh, it's at the win, whatever. But I do think that, you know, with only talking here about a two to three month timeframe, I completely agree. And in that timeframe, I hope that people who live in that area clear the sidewalks, because that was always my problem when my son went there. So, you know, there's a lot of things going on. But I will also say, Marcus, that I think, you know, since COVID, that my experience as somebody who works at UMass, maybe Kim has a different experience, but that a lot of, a lot more of the professionals at UMass are working off campus or working on campus at least part of the time. And so it is like definitely a different pattern. And, and also the fact that UMass is the largest employer in Hampshire County. And that professors do, you know, keep different schedules. I completely agree. So, I mean, some people have to go in to like check on their labs, but other people do not. And so I would, I would agree that you would, we would want to collect the data like when the UMass semesters and session. Yeah, and sorry, my thing was more about it's not on students, it's not on. No, no, I mean, it's just all of the traffic related. Yeah. Because, because, you know, I can assure you that when it campus is not in session, there are plenty of people who are speeding through UMass as well. Yeah, yeah. And also, I mean, UMass is they're not having to use the back ways because they can go right through campus. Yeah. And in addition to like the UMass ebbs and flows, they do impact like a lot of other businesses off campus, right? Like, so you'll learn downtown businesses that have reduced hours until the students come back or that kind of thing. So anyway, I mean, anyway, okay, but we digress. So I guess we should just go around and just, you know. So what we're asked is whether tack would advise, you know, that, that some of these measures, these temporary measures be put in place. Beyond just having, you know, a speed sign or, or as Kim was saying, you know, more kind of like enforcement. You know, more staffing, more staffing, you know, to actually to like make sure people are going slower. It was put in place. Without the engineering studies. Right. Right. Yeah. I think that's the key part is put in place without engineering study to back it up. So. Is that the question? Putting in place a permanent solution without engineering studies. Is that the question? Well, I think it's even putting in place that even a temporary solution that impacts the roadway. Itself, like the width of the roadway before there's an engineering study. So even speed bumps, you know, anything that would impact the, you know, go has a question. Hey, I was just going to ask, like, what is the quickest? Are we sure on the turnaround time for the engineers report for a temporary solution? And then my only other feedback would be like. Would the police put any kind of signage or anything there in terms of. Something that can be done immediately. Well, I know 1 thing was when I was there, right, the trailer. The trailer with the message sign, it's only in the 1 direction. It's not it wasn't in the other direction. So. I mean, even just if there, I don't know how many the police department has if they. And there's also request for them in other parts of town too, including downtown. If they have those resources. And Anna has another question, or it has her hand up. Sorry, it really wasn't that important. Tracy, I just, you, you were citing the traffic study was the day before spring break, but only 1 of the days. I mean, it went back. To the 14th. So I don't, I don't actually think that that's a factor in this. As much as it as folks might think, because it started, I mean, they had. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, the 14th. No, no, no. So, Anna, you had, I guess. All I was mentioning is that the, of course, they looked at Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. In the morning of March, you know, in March, like the 2nd week of March. But it was just interesting to me that in terms of because what I did is I looked, I separate out the data and I looked north and south at like the speeding. The percentage of cars that were speeding. Like 30 miles an hour or higher, like on each of the. Because the report from the officer didn't actually break out the north and the south in terms of vehicle speeds. And I looked at it that way. And it's just on that. It just happened to be on that particular morning. Which happened to be the day before spring break. There could have been other factors. It could have been a weather factor. I didn't go check any of those factors, but. That there was like significantly less speeding than there had been the other days. Yeah, it's interesting. I guess I would have thought there'd be more folks on the road that day because folks were leaving campus, but it's interesting to consider the implications of that. Okay, thanks. So that's just a 1 data point. And I mean, it's not a comprehensive study or anything. I just started. Right. Yeah. Thanks. And in my, in my experience as a teacher professor there, students leave early for any break. And they'll leave before Friday. Absolutely. So, okay, but Joe, your hand is still up. And we should just keep an eye on the clock because we do need to take some vote or something before. Well, I would suggest after we hear from Joe that we go around and state, you know, maybe we all individually address whether or not we think that the council should instill, what was the, what was the question exactly? Whether or not the council should go ahead and install any, any permanent measures that are not preceded by a traffic study or engineer or whatever, whatever the actual question was. I think they were even temporary measures, right? Even temporary. Should there be temporary, you know, road design, flow measures, like before there's the engineering study? And but Joe, so my hand was up from before, but I'll just pick off the answers. You know, I think we should have an engineer study. I just don't know how long it would take, you know, for the temporary measure if it takes too long. Obviously, no. I'm just also curious though is, is the town just as liable if there's an accident in the interim, just because it was raised? I think that's the question for Gilford. There's, there's always the possibility to be sued. Everything I do, everything I do not do. The town, there's, there's someone if something that goes wrong and something doesn't go the way some people like there's a possibility being sued. We haven't done many changes. The, the studies we have done don't really indicate there really needs to be a speed change. The speed limit is as low as it goes. Leaving the, leaving the school signs, school zone signs up there opens the town up for some liability. The study for a three-way stop showed there wasn't a warrant for meeting a three-way stop. So there, yes, there's liability all around no matter what you do. But if you actually physically decide to go do something additionally, do you incur speed bumps first? Speed humps first came out. People were suing like crazy because they didn't like the speed hump on their street. If those kind of stopped and people don't sue anymore. So there's always possibly you do something or don't do something and something gets sued. Okay, thank you for that. Sorry for the rambling. All right, let's go around the room. So, so Marcus and I spoken Joe. So Chris, Stefan. I know Chris, you have to leave soon. Yeah, I really have to go. I. Yeah, I would wait for the study. And I'll go. I would also wait for the study. Yeah, I know all I could that I would also be more comfortable waiting as well. Sorry, I had to run downstairs to my daughter. I would also prefer that we wait the two three months for the engineering study. All right, so that, I mean, I guess we don't, we can take an official vote, but. No, I mean, so just so do we, do we recommend that they're. That the town consider. Anything else. I think we recommend that we need, we need to include the. The speed signs and stuff, right? Right. Okay. That's a temporary measure. Yeah. And then, and then Kim, it also raised the points about like looking at any kind of. At least temporary parking reconfiguration to reduce the number of. That's a great. Yes. I mean, they should just be, they, I mean, I feel like they. There are there. I have no idea what the, I'm sure the school has tried to do something, but there are ways of making of. Better encouraging parents to. And. Take more responsibility and park more, you know. More responsibly in whatever form that is. I don't know. Not that parents aren't trying to do that already, but we all get too hurried sometimes and run out of time and whatever. Because it was that one picture of a car parked this way and a car parked this way. Cars. I've done that. Yeah. And you can just say, you know, you can't do that anymore. Right. I've almost left my kid at school there overnight accidentally. So. So, is that all we have then? No, we have, we have. So we have made that recommendation. You. I'm going to just share. No, we need public comment. We need it. But I will. So what we're just saying is. Just, you know, if we want to be on record, like all of us who are here, which is all the members six, zero. That we're saying, right, that we support, you know, waiting until the engineering study is complete and we've been told that it will be completed in the spring. Installing the speed feedback signs. It's not really even installation because some of them don't need to be installed and then also temporary parking. No, it's not. Its step. Measures implement changes to encourage more parking. And one thing I would say on the installation of feedback signs in the meantime and raising awareness. Of the, the current speed, you know, through the use of that. Whatever it is painting on the road. to advocate for enforcement, you know, if there are the resources. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So I mean, that's that's also all of Henry Street or whatever that street is. Northeast Henry, it is crazy now. But that's living along. OK, so that's what we would say. That's what we'll tell the council. All right, so I guess do we want to have a motion that would that's what we want to support? Well, didn't we all just say that? And that's what we don't we support. It wouldn't hurt. I don't think it would just like to be official. Yeah, yeah, yeah, agree. You know. So so I make a motion that we we our memo to the council includes what is written on the screen in front of us. Installation of feedback signs completed in the spring. I mean, I'm just going to say that, right? Raising awareness of the current speed. Encouraging further and fourth police import enforcement along Northeast Street and encouraging the daycare to instill some more temporary parking changes. OK, all right. All in favor. I guess we'll, you know, our second. Someone needs to second it. I'll second. OK. All those in favor. I raise my hand. Yeah, we all raise we all voted. So it's five. That's only yeah, five of us right now. And Chris was, you know, Chris was here and she supported it. So OK, thank you. All right, I guess we'll open up to public comment. And we have, I guess we have almost all the a lot of comment. Kim, you are calling people and I can't see anybody. So Jeremy Anderson. And can we just kind of keep track of time? Well, we have to, because we all have to be done. But this meeting ends at seven. So well, I'm going to go over, but not by law. Well, I have been awaiting for me. So let's get started. Let's get started. OK, thank you. Well, Jeremy Anderson in. All right. Thank you for talking about the safety issue in Henry Street. And as everyone here has just discussed, this is a problem that's been going on for at least 30 years. A lot of what was mentioned today is incredibly frustrating. How little information has been provided to you from the town staff. The summary of the North-South traffic is something that I sent to you in an email. The parking solutions is something we've been working with the town staff, with the town manager, with Guilford directly to identify parking solutions. We put out temporary speed bumps, which the Public Works Department took out. The the temporary your speed signs, whatever we're calling them, the traffic awareness sign. That was a citizen's request that I put in for funding to put signs in that that were funded at all. None of the traffic calming solutions that any resident asked for last year across Amherst were funded. The police department have been the only people who have done anything to help. They put the trailer there. They've put efforts in to put more officers to come by and just to hear over and over again that we can't do anything, that people don't care about 18 month old children, that they don't care about five year olds. That's true. And I see you rolling your eyes and you're late for dinner. And I'm so upset right now. I've been asking this town for three years after a child was almost hit by a speeding car and over and over again, we do nothing. We just say that Kat is or that the tail is wagging the dog. Guilford needs to make a recommendation. But then Guilford says he's told me in person that we don't the town doesn't have to listen to the recommendations. They don't we we can do something. We can save a child's life. And instead, we're just we're doing nothing. And that's what happens over and over again. And I'll stop there. But please do something. It's just it's so frustrating as a parent to feel like we live in a town that doesn't care about working families, that doesn't care about little children and their safety. And you have the power, you have the expertise to please do something. I'll stop there. I'm sorry. Who do you want next, Tracy? I mean, let's just go on the list or anybody. Michelle. Hi, thank you. Michelle Abby 34 high point drive. I am the chair of concom and I spent three hours on a meeting last night because we took public comment because that is an important thing to do on public meeting. So I really encourage you tonight to listen to the people that have sat through this meeting for the last, what, since 530 and please hear us out. What I'd like to present because I'm stepping away from my CPAC duties tonight is I'm just going to go bullet point, but this isn't just about the childcare. This is also just a dangerous intersection on Henry street. There's a multi-car accident yesterday, just yesterday, which a three point stop sign could have prevented. You know, I don't know the details of it, but I want to point that out that you're waiting three months for this, whereas you could have prevented that. You know, the town could have done something so long ago and that could have not happened. I grew up in Amherst. I grew up in North Amherst. I've been hit by a car on this intersection. This is just getting worse and worse and worse. That parking lot that you want to get rid of is used by cycling groups, hiking groups, running groups on the weekend. Yes, it is. And we know that because I live, I've seen her shaking your head. Okay. I wasn't saying getting rid of it. I was not saying that at all. Okay. The town owns that property. I don't think that reconfiguring this, the parking is going to solve the issue of speeding. Furthermore, the North side of the parking, which you were questioning, why are people parking like that? There's a, there's a fire hydrant there, which restricts the parking and the fence. So it's really, it's a problem. Most of the staff park there. And they're, yeah, it's a problem, but I don't think that parking more aggressively or differently is really going to solve any kind of speeding problems on the street. It's not just the students. This happens throughout the summer. It's all the time. I was picking up my kid there today. And at 430 that police traffic signs flashing blue constantly, every single car passing by. I've seen town vehicles speeding by 40 miles an hour. That is your speed. And yet they just keep going. What needs to happen is actual traffic calming. And it's just, it, I just want to make the point that this isn't just about the day care. Cause I understand it's a private organization and that there's probably public interest in that. And I completely understand that. And that's why I'm trying to make the point that this is about a very dangerous intersection that just needs to be addressed. Okay. Last thing. I think that's all I've got, but thank you for considering this. I understand it's challenging. And I really do encourage you to stay a little extra longer and take the public comment. Cause that is what this democracy in our town is for. I'm sorry you're late for dinner. My husband's upstairs with our kids. I'm on a CPAC meeting and I spent three hours last night on a town meeting. So that's, you know, why we love our town and we're invested in it. So thank you for hearing me out. You for your comment. Laura. Hey there, guys. Thanks for taking the time to talk about all this stuff today. Can somebody just really briefly fill me in. I've been on the call for the last about 45 minutes. As to in like a sentence or two as to. Why. Nothing can be done kind of at a quicker pace. It seems like the most obvious thing to me would be to put in speed bumps, which are all over UMass campus and encourage everyone to drive slow. I don't understand why we can't just move forward with something that seems like a very obvious solution. So remember, you're taking public comment. Well, thank you for your comment. So I'd like to just hear the rest of the comments, please. That, that that's it. Nobody's going to, nobody's going to fill me in on that. Well, during the, I mean, I'll just comment briefly, but I'm not going to, I'm not going to, I'm not going to, I'm not going to, I'm not going to, I'm not going to, I mean, I'll just comment briefly, but during the other parts of the meeting, I mean, there was just a discussion about what's possible to do without an engineer. Tracy, Tracy, we're taking public comment. We cannot respond. There's an open making law violation. Dan. Hi, thanks for, uh, volunteering your time to have this meeting. Um, we sent our daughter to the daycare and we also live right across the street from the daycare. So, um, we watch the people speed by all the time. Um, and the, the blue lights on the traffic calming sign have been flashing in our dining room for the last month or two. Um, you know, all, all hours of the day, which is fun. Um, and so yeah, it's, you know, we've been here for three years and it's, it's pretty clear to me that at least it sounds like there's been a lot of history, but it, it just seems like common sense dictates a three way stop sign at Henry and pine, regardless of whose driveway is where there's got to be an exception where if somebody's driving 40 miles an hour consistently past a daycare, I understand it's a private daycare. It's not a school, but it just doesn't make any sense that people driving 40 miles an hour past a place. That's a daycare. Whether or not people are being picked up or dropped off or the kids are out to play. You know, there should be a way to just say like, okay, let's think about this. Yeah, let's, let's put a stop sign in here. And you know, we'd still then we would have issues with people going southbound. And that's the, the direction that the traffic calming sign is facing right now. And so people are speeding there as well. But, you know, again, thanks for your time to have this meeting, but we really, we do, you know, I, given that we, given that we live here, we don't want our child to get hit by a car. We certainly don't want a child at the daycare to get hit by the car in it. It shouldn't take a child getting hit by a car going 15 miles over the speed limit when we've already had a study by a police officer saying, you know, approximately 50% of the traffic on this road has been speeding to say, let's do something now. Let's put stop signs in, you know, and if, if somebody sues the town, because they put a stop sign in to prevent a kid from getting hit at a daycare, I'll take that defense for the town. Like I think that's a pretty winnable case. So once again, thanks so much for your time and, you know, feel free to reach out to us. We're here all day and all night watching the cars speeding by if anybody needs more sort of on the ground information. Have a good night. Julian. Julian. I walk my son to school on that road every single day. We walk home very frequently. And I have very frequently been very, very, very even parking my car and, and, you know, leaving a school building. I am often afraid by the speed of which cars even during school pick up times and drop off where there are clearly toddlers running around. You know, we might get sued if we do anything. And I found that pretty insensitive given that to me, I feel like the thing that we should, the biggest consequence that we should be worried about is one of these children getting hurt. That to me is the, is the, is the most, the biggest liability in the situation. And I just feel like this, this attitude of like, Oh, take it down the line. Another few months is a problem. And I, so I wanted to just express my discomfort with the way that was handled. And, and just heard a little bit more of your attention to this issue and resolving it a little bit more quickly. Thanks so much. Eve. Hi all. I'm Eve Vogel. I'm a former member of the tack. And I live somewhat near this intersection. So a couple of comments. One is the engineering study that you talked about. Guilford would be needed for. You described it as needed for any kind of infrastructural change. So things that would be like the barriers on the side of the road, or we didn't talk, I think you guys didn't talk about it, but I kept thinking about islands like on pine street, but the things that you would put in that would actually change the way cars move right there. You said would need an engineering study. So two thoughts on that one. There may be some things that can be done without an engineering study. And I don't know, but it would be worth talking that through whether, for example, those three way stop signs. Would require an engineering study. Or whether something that wasn't an infrastructural change, like painting a. Decorated intersection on the road. To just really flag it as a different kind of place in the road. I think I've shared those images with you from Portland multiple times, but there may be some non infrastructural things that could be done without an engineering study. And then the second comment. And I think you guys should have that conversation. Sorry. And then I've got one more thing to say, which is that. If you're going to do the engineering study, make sure that it doesn't just say sort of what you would advise because you said you already did one and said, we don't really advise a stop sign. It's not warranted. But in a lot of our previous conversations in the tack, there's been a lot of, a lot of the engineering studies look at those 85% rules and things like that, that people are now saying should be superseded by considerations of safety or pedestrian bike access. Or small children or disabled users or vulnerable users. And so therefore when the engineering study is done, make sure that it considers options that might not be officially warranted by that same engineering study, but that the community might want. Thank you. That was everybody. Thank you. Thank you everybody for your public comments. Okay. So does the committee want to have any further discussion at this point? I think we've made our recommendation so far. So. And per the agenda, I think we're calling them meeting over, right? Yeah. I guess I just want to make one more comment, which is. That. If. We actually had. A prioritization. You know, lists that we had. If we had criteria for prioritizing projects such as this one. You know, they can be tackled in a much more. Equitable manner than. Then, then, you know, an emergency manner like this one is, is emerging as. And that is not our problem. We have actually made a prioritization list for projects around the town. And in the absence of a charge, we are not able to get those types of. Of rational and more forward thinking kinds of. You know, lists. To our town council. And rather than it have to be something that comes up as an emergency like this one. So that's my, you know, this. Whole discussion. And the impassioned voices that I heard tonight. I guess. I'm not, I'm, I'm glad to hear people are passionate about. About. Our roadways in town, like all of us have been passionate for the last three, whatever, however many years it's been that we haven't had a charge when we haven't been able to implement. Rational. Road use in our town. So that is not on us. And we should not just be used as an emergency service. You know, we should be much more forward thinking in our town. Then then. Then this. And I would like that on record. Thank you. And I motion that we end our meeting. Second. Good night. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Thanks. There you go. You did it.