 Welcome back to the Sports Mac Zone, we continue our discussion on Lionel Messi winning a record extending eighth Ballon d'Or title. The 36-year-old Messi is now three Ballon d'Or's Clare of his nearest rival Cristiano Ronaldo. Messi led Argentina to their third-world title in December last year, scoring five goals with three assists, while scoring 21 goals in all competitions with Paris Saint-Germain. There are those who believe Messi is undeserving of this latest award. One such person is former French international and Paris Saint-Germain legend Jerome Rosen. Rosen in reacting to Messi's historic win says, It's disgraceful. Of course, it's disgraceful. As far as I'm concerned, it should have gone to Haaland. From August 2022 to June 2023, what criteria lead us to say that Leo Messi is about the others? There's hardly any criteria where he's number one. If we look at his record, he's inferior to Haaland even though he won the World Cup. Haaland won everything with Manchester City. And of course, you can compare him with the World Cup because Haaland is Norwegian. At PSG, Messi wasn't above the rest. He wasn't the best player at the club. It's problematic that a guy who's won the Ballon d'Or, who's supposed to be the best player in the world, isn't even the best player at his club. You have to stop being delirious. And over the last four years, he's won two Ballon d'Or awards. So for me, it's disgraceful. I'm hallucinating. Wow. Well, joining us to add to the discussion is our Latin America football correspondent, Juan G. Arango. Good afternoon, Juan. How are you? Doing good, but I didn't smoke what Jerome Rothen is. And you were very kind by calling him a legend. That's a very loose term. Someone that really was kind of a middle of the road player during even the best years they had in his career. Yeah. But what a mouthful I was given to, of course, share with our viewers. What's your take on some of his comments, you know, calling Lionel Messi winning the Ballon d'Or over Erling Haaland at disgrace? He says it's disgraceful, the choice of words. Well, let's understand where this is coming from. Jerome Rothen has been one of the biggest critics of Leo Messi rightfully or unrightfully so during his time at PSG. He's found every single reason to be able to criticize Messi. Whatever it's been, even during the World Cup, he was criticizing Messi. So it's interesting to hear him constantly just babble about what his team has been able to do. And it's funny because just yesterday, Arsene Wenger said the biggest trophy that PSG has ever won is having Messi on their team. So I try to understand that one. But again, keep in mind, French media has just been absolutely abhorrent when it comes to having covered Messi during his time. Just a player that never really adjusted, player that, let's be honest, at a certain point, he started to prioritize the Argentine national team over his club. But again, keep in mind, that was his oasis. It's funny because just a couple of years ago, we would have been saying the complete opposite while he was at Barcelona. It was Barcelona, his oasis. It was his religious experience going to the Argentine national team. But for the most part, I mean, there isn't, I can't be 100% in disagreement with Rotten. There's something always wrong with the Ballon d'Or. And it's already transformed itself into more of a marketing kind of ploy where it's the most popular player, maybe not the most deserving that has won it in recent years. Yes. So I listen to what you're saying about it being the most popular player. And I do know every time Lionel Messi won the Ballon d'Or, there were of course a lot of reasons and a lot of people coming to the forefront to explain why another player should have won it over Lionel Messi because he's clearly the favorite of the Ballon d'Or. He has won it eight times. The number speaks for itself one. But for me, and this is the question that I have for this year. We're focusing on this year, not all the other years where he didn't win the World Cup and a lot of people felt as if players were hard done. Winning a World Cup won. Does it trump winning all the trophies? Because Rosanne spoke about it, Holland winning everything that Manchester City could have won, winning the treble. Your take on a World Cup win for Argentina, the role that Messi played in that particular World Cup win versus the treble for Holland. You want to know my answer? I don't know. You also asked him. Because I don't know the criteria. Because the criteria changes every year, depending on who are the candidates, the criteria changes. One year it was winning the World Cup. I mean, Messi's won the Ballon d'Or having won a treble. Then he won without having won a World Cup, without even getting to a final of a World Cup. Then, I mean, I'm not saying that it's wrong that he's won it. It's just, I want to know based on what? Because when you looked at the presentation yesterday, you saw Messi with Argentina. You didn't see him with PSG. You definitely didn't see him with Inter Miami either, with Holland. All you saw was Man City. So what are they basing it on? Obviously, if you're basing it on the World Cup, then yeah, Messi deserves it because he had a great World Cup. But that was back in December of last year. So what happened from January on? That's my question. Was he deserving based on that? Or was it just plainly and simply the World Cup? Again, the reason I say I don't know, Mariah, is because what is the criteria? You go back to 2010. Should he have won because he won the World Cup? Should Wesley Snyder won because Inter won the treble? That's, again, another question. We can start looking at it. Let's go back to 2013. Remember when Joseph Blatter was over at Oxford University talking and all of a sudden he starts mocking Cristiano Ronaldo? Lance, you probably remember that too. What happens a couple of days after with the voting for the Ballon d'Or? It completely stops. They start it all over again. And then all of a sudden Cristiano Ronaldo wins it. So it goes hand in hand. It's not just Messi. It's many other types of votes that have gone through that it's, well, the most popular one. Well, you know, this guy deserves it because, yeah, you know, he's been able to do this or he's been able to do that. Let's give it to him because, you know, he's the big story this year. What's the criteria? Criteria is an important word. You just made there Juan. But the fact is there are hundreds of votes going in and people will vote for who they think is number one. So it almost dilutes the fact that there should be criteria for this award. And it changes every year. That's the thing. Every single year it's something different. Now, like I said, I'm not saying that Messi is deserving or undeserving of it. It's just based on what was it chosen? Because last year, who was Karim Benzema? Won it basically because he won the Champions League with Real Madrid. Okay. So why did it change this year? Well, there was no World Cup last season. So I think the measurement will probably shift a little bit given the year that we're talking about. Having said that, I understand the point you're making Juan, because I think what riles up a lot of fans is the inconsistency and the lack of cohesion in how the award is done. Because to be quite honest, I think Messi is more deserving of the award this year than maybe a few other years that he had won. Because how can you win a World Cup, be the best player of the World Cup awarded so, and then you get the Ballon d'Or award and people complain because a World Cup is the highest level of football globally. So if you win the World Cup and you are player of the tournament and you score three goals in the final and your team wins, it's hard to deny Messi this on and now. But I put it to Brent on yesterday's show that Andrés Iniesta won the World Cup in 2010, scored the winner in the final and Messi won the Ballon d'Or ahead of him. So those are the inconsistencies that I think people are concerned about Juan. Exactly, and it doesn't offer you a great deal of clarity. It simply does not. That's the whole thing. Again, you and I aren't saying that he's not deserving. I mean, that's not even part of the conversation. We're just asking how it got to be that way. So because not every single voter is voting based on the same... Well, because of this, I think he's better. Because of that, I think he's better. Because my kid wants his jersey, I think he's better. It's a whole lot of things that it's a popularity contest. It's more marketing than anything else at this point in this stage of football, the Ballon d'Or. So it ends up being one of those things where you really don't know exactly where to put the finger on. Is he one of the greatest, if not the greatest player of all time? No doubt about it. But now, is that really minimizing what Erling Holland does? And also one more thing, who's the one that gives this award? That's the big question. That's when you start saying, oh, okay, that's why they prioritize one thing or the other. Well, it's a FIFA Ballon d'Or award. That's the name of the award. Exactly. So FIFA prioritizes their tournaments. All right. I want to say this very quickly because we understand that Bayern Munich players boycotted the event yesterday. I know two ceases ago, they felt that Lewandowski should have won. Even though he only won Bundesliga with Bayern Munich, he didn't win UEFA, the Champions League. But they were hurt because of his record goalscoring performances for Bayern in the Bundesliga. It was troubling for a lot of fans. And the Bayern Munich players felt that their way to make a statement was to boycott yesterday's function. Your thoughts on that? So what? Okay, great. They boycotted it. If they were a team that had come in after winning a treble, then fine. I understand. But what did Bayern do this past year? They only won the Bundesliga. They only won the Bundesliga after having a good result in the final round. And on top of that, seeing Borussia Dortmund not being able to win their game. What else did they do? I mean, which other player do you think is worthy of that Ballon d'Or within the Bayern Munich squad this year? None. None. They just got eliminated today from the DFB Polkao. So I think they should focus more on trying to win those titles than worry about boycotting an individual award show. Yeah, a tough one, this, because to be quite honest, just to repeat the position of Lionel Messi's deserving of this honor, when we have in the Caribbean or sports personalities of the year award, if someone wins an Olympic gold medal, Juan, it is hard for someone, no matter how well they did in tennis or football or cricket, to trump an Olympic gold medal winner or world championship gold medal winner. And to me, it's the same thing here. If Messi wins the World Cup, stars in winning the World Cup, as I said, scored three goals in the final, including in the decisive penalty shootout. Nothing can top that. You referenced that he hadn't done much outside of that, but it is really, really hard to top that. But I'm getting the point that you're making one, which essentially is, I think football fans need to understand the consistency of the awards, which is to me even still difficult to nail down, because it's a vote. It's a vote with hundreds of football people globally, and they will vote for who they want. You're right. But if they go to you, say Lance, Mariah, if you got, the Ballon d'Or will be based on who ends up playing best in international play with their national team. You can complain, you can not agree with it, but you know exactly where they're coming from. Okay, that's it. But then one year it's one thing, another year it's another, a player that's won the Champions League ends up getting it. Well, another, you know, another one that ends up winning the domestic double does. Mind you, Messi wins it one year where, I think it was 2012, where Barcelona doesn't win the treble, but he ends up scoring 91 goals in a calendar year. Now, that ends, you know, when you have those types of numbers, then it's very hard to trump them unless you end up winning the Champions League, end up winning a World Cup, end up winning everything under the sun in that particular year over him. It's very difficult to do so. And like you said, I mean, in athletics, for example, you know, Usain Bolt was never, you know, if he was going for his, you know, for his third consecutive gold medal in the 100 meters, the only person in the Caribbean that could be able to overcome it is maybe a tennis player that goes in and wins every single grand slam in tennis or ends up breaking a world record in a particular discipline four times over. It has to be like that and you're absolutely right. But the Olympics is the Mount Olympus of athletics, if you will. The World Cup isn't necessarily in the eyes of many, the Mount Olympus of football anymore. It's the biggest tournament in the world, the biggest sporting event in the world, but it's the most competitive. But it should be. Why wouldn't it not be? It's the World Cup. But something that Champions League is more competitive. Now, I don't agree with it. You don't agree with it. But some look at that. Yeah, but it isn't global. The Champions League isn't global. You're right. The World Cup is global. You're absolutely right. And I agree with you. But some don't look at it that way. Some, whenever international play comes in, they absolutely switch off. They're, ah, no, there's no football for them. It's vacation time. I don't care about international play. And when the World Cup comes, okay, there's somewhat interested in it. Oh, but I can't wait till club football starts again. So, Juan, based on the fact that there have been so many reported discrepancies, so many people, all the questions you ask in this segment, you know, what's the criteria to choose who wins the award, who's behind the selecting, who gets the award, many questions. You listed a lot of questions in this segment. Do you think the Ballon d'Or, which many people see as a glory award, it's an award you really want to achieve in your life. Do you think year by year it's losing its respect and its credibility and eventually nobody will take it seriously? I don't think anyone's taking it seriously for a couple of years now because to some people it's more of a popularity contest now. Yeah. It's more, you know, fine, I'm messy, cool, or Ronaldo, or this or that, or whatever players invoke at that moment. And I think that's what it's become more. Now, am I saying that they're deserving or not? That's another issue. And I don't agree necessarily with the people that say that Luthor Mateos, who doesn't agree with Messi winning the Ballon d'Or. I disagree. But at the same time, it's become more of a marketing ploy by FIFA and by many other footballing entities to be able to push and promote their brand. Right. And one, the Ballon d'Or ceremony certainly doesn't help itself when it comes to credibility. After Argentina's Emiliano Martinez won the Yeshin Trophy for best goalkeeper of the year, despite not being the highest ranked keeper in the overall Ballon d'Or vote. Your thoughts? When you listen to many in South America, it's very polarized. When you listen to many in Europe, same thing. Aston Villa might have not got to where they got in European football this year, if not for him. I mean, it's a very solid squad, but he was integral in many parts of the season. Do I think that he was the best goalkeeper in the World Cup world over the last year? Probably not. But let's start trying to rattle off some names that are currently the best ones. Teebo Kutwa maybe, but he didn't have a good World Cup. Again, which tournaments end up being prioritized? Ederson, is he better than D.R. Martinez right now? I mean, if you start rattling off names off the top of your head, you're probably going to say, well, maybe this season they weren't as good or better or that much better than him. And what about Mark Tisdagon? A lot of talk about him last season, remember? Mark Tisdagon about the clean sheets that he kept for Barcelona that even led them to winning the title. I think he would have been a good contender. He would have been a good contender, but then what's Barcelona's measuring stick? Well, they got eliminated in the Europa League. So again, the big stage. And again, he wasn't an integral part of Germany during the World Cup. And where did Germany end up in the World Cup? Sorry, Lance. I mean, if we're going to play devil's advocate, let's try and throw stones in certain arguments and see where they end up. Was he that much better? Maybe. But then again, the shadow of the Premier League nowadays ends up being much larger and over-encompassing compared to other leagues as well. The issue that has to be explained here for football fans in reality though, Juan, is he was 15th on the Ballon d'Or voting list and there was a goalkeeper ahead of him in 13th. So just straight numbers. There has to be an explanation as to why as to why he would win above a goalkeeper that got more votes than he got on the overall Ballon d'Or list, because you can explain Messi away because he had more votes. You can explain the previous decisions based on the votes. But here's a case where it was the number two ranked voted goalkeeper that got the award. And to me, that calls for some explanation. I wish I had answers for you, but I mean, you're right. I mean, what do you want me to say? It's true. Maybe you heard something that I didn't hear. No, I didn't. I wish I did. But like I said, when you start talking about these issues and we've seen it when all of a sudden a player ends up being striker of the year in the Ballon d'Or or anything like that, and all of a sudden you look at the ideal 11 and they're not in it, then you're like, where's the logic here? Wait a second. Why is another player the best striker in Europe yet you selected someone else as the best number nine in European football or in world football? If you will. So yeah, it's these things that definitely make no sense. Now, again, is he deserving? Well, compared to the player that's in front of him, he's not, but he did do enough within his resume. And now let's keep in mind, we're talking about a goalkeeper that is very polarizing, that is very controversial, that had a couple of rules changes in effect because of him. So let's keep in mind that he's not the most the most popular of goalkeepers or popular footballers worldwide, especially if you're talking about France and especially if you're talking about the Netherlands. Yeah, I just think that it just warrants an explanation because there is an explanation for the other awards because the votes the votes told you the votes the votes said one goalkeeper and the award was given to the number two goalkeeper. So that to me is requires some kind of explanation because we want to feel that these awards are not discretionary or they are not manually decided or mentally decided. They aren't and they are. So I mean, that's basically that's the only thing I can tell you because I agree with you in terms of the of the dissonance that that is displayed in these types of awards. And I mean, there's really no explanation because it's not that I voted and I say, hey, you know, I voted for such and such a player because of this, this and that. No, I'm outside of it just like you are. And we're like just as dumbfounded on one end as we are on the other. All right, Juan. Well, what's for sure is this Valendo discussion will always continue. We'll see who wins it next season. Let's just say Leonel Messi will not be there. So maybe people will be a bit excited and happy to see a new winner. Who knows. But we want to thank you so much for stopping by on the Sports Mac soon. We look forward to chatting with you again very, very soon. Excellent as always. Thanks guys. Appreciate it. Thank you so much. Juan Giarango there. Our South American football correspondents. Let's take a quick break. Come right back.