 Hello and a warm welcome to NewsClick. I'm your host Neelu Vyas. You're going to find me on this platform every week with a brand new show called Point of View which is going to get you views, analysis, discussions centered around the forthcoming Vidhan Sabha elections in the five states. Our focus will not be on the nonsensical scuffles typical of the TV studios but we will dive deep to understand the issues which will define the election, the issues that will matter to the people and the country. So let's begin our first episode today with Battleground Uttar Pradesh. Whoever wins UP becomes the king of Delhi and that's one political reality and the other reality being the fact that this North Indian state cannot be won without alluring the different communities. Hence the most successful mantra is to polarize and so far every effort seems to be made to polarize on the religious lines. Hence the Hindutva card is being played to the hilt. We see a return of Mandir politics spiced up with holy dips and the Ganges, puja rituals, liberal mention of Kashi, Mathura and Ayodhya. But will this work for BJP or backfire in the year 2022? Joining me now my esteemed panelists, Professor Apurvananth from Delhi University, political commentator, columnist, I welcome you on the program sir. My next panelist is MK Venu, the founding editor, the wire. Welcome Venu on the program and Samajwadi party spokesperson Ashutosh Varma. Welcome on the program. To begin with this discussion I'll first of all go to Professor Apurvananth. Can we really assume that this 2022 elections in Uttar Pradesh is really going to be different from the previous elections which we've seen? As you rightly said, Mandir and Kashi and now Mathura is being invoked. Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh is telling his constituents that money that was used for fortification of Kabristsans is now being used for Tirthistsans and the home minister is telling his constituents that the Exodus of Hindus has been stopped by Uttar Pradesh government under Yogi Adityanath and Exodus. He didn't say in so many words but his constituents understand that Exodus was taking place because of criminals who happened to be Muslims. That is what he indicated and was repeated by the Prime Minister and the Prime Minister doesn't mean worse and he goes on telling his people that earlier terrorists were being patronized and criminals were being patronized and now Adityanath is playing jail, jail with criminals. So this dog whistle with not so dog whistle speeches by BJP leaders including the Home Minister, Prime Minister and Chief Minister make it very clear that BJP is trying to frame it in terms of Hindutva which is essentially anti-Muslim. So they are trying to create a Hindu Uttar which is anti-Muslim in a sense. That is the attempt and other parties are helping because Samajwadi party is again trying to speak a Hindu language without being anti-Muslim which in my opinion is going to reinforce the message that the Bhartijanta party is sending across because if you frame everything in terms of Hindu then who is Hindu is that Hindu is being defined by the BJP and the resources of Samajwadi party and the Congress party and others are not sufficient to define Hindu in some other way. So what you are doing essentially you are not addressing Muslims you are not addressing non-Hindus which are also hotel which is very sad but this is how the election is being framed. Right but Venu if I come to you can we are in a position to really say that we are seeing a return of Hindutva as we've never seen before more radicalized, more aggressive. How would you really see the phenomena unfolding or rather I could say an epi phenomena if I could say. See there is no doubt Neelu that Hindutva has assumed its most aggressive and pervasive form in the last seven, eight years and as Apurbanan says dog the cells it's almost become a default option for the BJP and for the Liza Sanj Pariva and this is not now this started from if you remember when Mr. Modi came to power 2014 first major speech from Redford August 15th if you recall he said that he would want the country man his country man everybody in India to not talk about divisive issues basically to put divisive issues on the back burner for at least I think he said about five to ten years and at that time a lot of people thought maybe that he was very serious about putting divisive issues on the back burner and bring development and economic development and other development issues to a forefront. Immediately after that came the RSS chief's big statement of Garwapsi and after that we all know the entire campaign around around cow slaughter, beef, consumption, love jihad and these things happened almost in an attack on Christians if you remember 2015 there was an attack on Christians. All these things were aimed at of course Hindu consolidation but when I seen some of them happening during the during Vashpayee's time also and even before that but these were never so well orchestrated by the broader pariva like you see suddenly some attacks of churches happened 2015 at that time Jaitley said no these are not ideological these are random then suddenly for three four years these things don't happen then suddenly it starts again recently so the question obviously how do these random things start happening with such impeccable timing before UP election suddenly Haridwar happened before UP suddenly talk about Mathura happened before UP and obviously the Adityanath is there the new Hindu icon for the pariva so these are these are very obvious but I would also equally say Nilu that that he has not this government has been so miserable on the economic front if you see UP's you know Niti Ayog's report on health indices it's at the bottom UP child health women health women's health you know women's participation in the labor force 91% of the women in UP Nilu are out of the labor force they're not even looking for work and we have Mr. Modi Prime Minister talk about from Priyagraj women empowerment of women so so the rhetoric the claims and the reality there is such a wide gulf that this gulf can only be covered through Hindutva rhetoric so ultimately no they they are playing various cards you know they're playing the you know backward OBC card if you remember for the first time I mean I'm people covering BJP for 40 years have never heard a formal press conference of BJP saying that that 40 40 percent of the cabinet new inductees are backwards I mean they have never formally I mean they would they would in that backward but they would never formally claim in a press conference you know so therefore non-other OBCs they are wooing them which they would earlier also so so there is the backward politics they're playing and the Hindutva politics which is a default politics of BJP and then there is also this development politics saying that so essentially they are throwing everything at the kitchen sink they are not confident obviously they are they have they don't have confidence at all on the economic front and I'll finally end by saying in my experience every 12 to 13 years inflation price rise becomes a monster of an issue and it comes and devours the the party the regime in power I think it happened in 2011-2012 you know UPS suffered it it happened earlier also and I think price rise is a big issue and these people are internally very worried about it the BJP is extremely worried about it it's not seem to be worried but the big question is whether this phantom of price rise is really going to engulf BJP because the aggressive Hindutva pitch which they are making the return of Mandir politics but one thing which is very intriguing Ashutosh and I would like really like to ask you on this that BJP's temple run is understandable everybody knows that it's a default politics of BJP but why are parties like Samajwadi party you know playing on this unfamiliar pitch because it's an unfamiliar pitch for you the way Akhilesh Yadav has been saying that you know I see Lord Krishna in my dreams and especially after Harnath Singh Yadav wrote a letter to JP Nadha saying that you know the yogi should contest from Mathura it seems that you are you fallen in the same trap you are fallen in the trap of BJP Ashutosh. Nillu I think there is a huge difference between what Mr. Venu has said that they are a Hindu supporter they are also anti-muslim way of Bharti Janta party initially Bharti Janta party was supposed to be a party of a Hindu supporter with a majority of talking about temple Lord Rama and Lord Krishna but now the new Bharti Janta party is also anti-muslim party and it's very clear because they want to suppress one's society so that they kind of catch a large variety majority vote from them. Samajwadi party has been always been accused the party of Yadav and Muslim movies and we know that they are always attacking all this only but we know that the only way to come out from this is to have overall OVC politics in the front of Uttar Pradesh. We started with various outfits small parties which are leading parts in the various pockets in the Uttar Pradesh such as Janwadi party Mahandal and Rajbal and the Krishna Patel party and then we made a coalition so that the most of the pockets can be covered on the basis of socio-economic caste senses we talk about caste senses we do. At this point at this point we can only get about 7 to 8 more percent than the previous 2017 elections and if you see this is my my our perception if you see the election is going in 2020 it is a by way election between Samajwadi party and Bharti Janta party. Bharti Janta party has grabbed about 38.9 percent of electoral gain and we have 21.8 what we assume that the new government will form something about 35 to 37 percent in between this so we need at least 13 percent more votes from all the parties including Bhaujan Samaj party including India National Congress and also the from the Bharti Janta party. Don't you think that this is an uphill task for Samajwadi party I mean you moved out of your M.Y. combination the Muslim Yadav combination which which you really claim off but how are you going to reach out to that percentage of voters you're claiming that's that's what we are that's what we are saying so initially we grabbed all the party leaders from various outputs from Bhaujan Samaj party from Congress from Amadhi party so that they joined the Samajwadi party even the Kadi Rana who's one of the accused in there he was also joining Samajwadi party even Harid Murry who is the one of the supporter of Prenge Gandhi and Sunya Gandhi is now with Samajwadi party most of the sitting MLA's of some Bhaujan Samaj party is with the Samajwadi party but what we gain till now is about seven to eight percent only so now our telly is expected to something about thirty one thirty two percent we need extra at least seven percent from to make the government and from where we can get this so two way we have either we snatch or some something from Bharti Janta party number one number two we can also have an eye on new voters about one crore new voters has been added in new voter list which has been added yesterday which has been published yesterday so our main focus is now adding from thirty one to reach to thirty eight is to attract all these things we also want to remove this stamp that we are not only MY we are something MLA and youth we are progressive we also claim that we have done such a development from 2012 to 2017 so it's we know that it's it's not our pitch to go and say all that thing but it's a part of society we can't reject that. Is that the reason Ashutosh if I may interrupt you is that the reason that you're playing this so called secular Hindu card because you are supposed to be a secular you are supposed to play a secular Hindu card right now so I think it's a general it's a journalist term secular Hindu I think there is nothing like secular Hindu Hindu is always a secular either you like when we say that BJP is an anti-muslim party so that's why I asked you I don't say I don't say BJP was never anti-muslim party now they are pretending themselves as a anti-muslim party because it is benefiting to them and you recall of Atal Bihari Bajveji you said you have the senior leaders the senior journalist did they know that Atal Bihari Bajveji Bharti Yanda party never said that they are anti-muslim they never have a mob lynching you have never heard a word like mob lynching you never heard a government has poses NIA who has given a protest against this and if they are from certain religion so they want to suppress one's IT to attract the majority of politics but what we presume that the things have been changed from 2012 to 2022 10 years has gone and the even the Uttar Pradesh has also seen a development in last 10 years I will not deny that Bharti Yanda party has not done something but definitely we feel that these foundation has been laid by Akhilesh Yadavji who was the person in 2013 who distributed 18 lakhs laptop and now Bharti Yanda party is coming and giving the smartphone and tablets in 2022 so they are about eight ten years back to us they are coming to us so I think it's a main of number game how you catch attract your voters how you grab the percentage because it's a one to one fight and we don't want to lose any aspect at that time definitely we are not so hard liner on any religious we don't talk of religious criminalization we don't want to have a criminal polarization but also we don't want to have a tag like they are the party of only M. Y. No because these questions Ashutosh these questions are being asked because in Netaji's tenure it was unthinkable you know for for any leader from the Samajwadi party to visit Mandir or to talk about Lord Krishna so this is this is really you know a line which the party has not taken early how you how you portray if you recall in Netaji's kushti he always pradam with Hanumanji put a tika on himself and then he do a kushti each and everything but at that time the media was not like this he's polarizing that Netaji do Hanuman puja like this or Bharti Yanda party I think the scenario has been changed it's a very dynamic politics so we don't want to suppose the criminal polarization has been done by Uttar Pradesh by Bharti and the party in next few few weeks what was the option then you say oh so we don't want to leave any stone unturned we all to attack on every we are doing on the youth and we have started new campaign in the industries level vote for Akhilesh vote for Uttar Pradesh we have done all the religious work also we have done all the minorities work also so in in in fact Akhilesh is talking about the minorities issues he has just raised the issue of Anglo-Indian also in the last rally so definitely we are we have to face every challenger I can't say that it's a very hard liner that we are totally not going to temples and not talking about the Lord Ramakrishna why should it's a matter of people they want to hear he bought Akhilesh other things about the Ram so we say that we worship Ram but we don't Ram in the we don't pick Ram in politics hmm but is it how many people would take Samajwadi party seriously if you if you are going on a temple run but but but that's that's the point besides and whether it gets converted to votes or not that's something to watch to you know watch out for but professor Purva Nant given the aggressive pitch of Hindutva I really wonder that what about the issue of anti-incumbency how does it really get blunted or how is it really going to unfold nobody's talking about anti-incumbency against the Yogi Adityanath government how do we see that issue unfolding I was reading the reports filed by Anubhav Chandra's role where he discusses these issues and he says that BJP has an edge over others despite economic deprivations that people are suffering from as Venu rightly said but this Hindutva thing and this aggressive anti-Muslim is that the BJP has has played this has put BJP in advantage so this anti-incumbency is not being talked about or at least Hindus are not thinking about it because a more pronounced anti-Muslim hate campaign has been unleashed from all corners and media is participating in it so the Hindu mindscape is has been captured by this anti-Muslim and anti-minority studies are yet to be done because what we are speaking we are speaking based on perception and and some observation we need serious study to understand the voter psychology and how voters behave and what do they think and over a period of time how their choice is developed and what exactly is the anti-incumbency because if you were expecting this government to deliver Hindu victory that is what this government has delivered Hindu victory so did the electorate ever expect development from this government as we understand development to be or is Hindu electorate always expected it to it to deliver that victory of Hindus over Muslims and that it has done successfully so when we when we talk about anti-incumbency we also have to think about what the expectation of the electorate was and and so what has been done and I I I think what generally political parties have done they have turned people into certified objects bound to government schemes so you give 6000 rupees 12 000 rupees to give this scheme and you give that scheme there is no vision of good life which is being which parties offer to people what good life is so you promise them we will give you 6000 rupees so what's the difficulty for a BJP government to give them 6000 rupees or 12 000 rupees or some other scheme so that's what the BJP government has done the political parties will have to think seriously why don't they talk about what a decent society is and how people should live and what a good life is what is that vision and why do the fall for I I understand the predicament which parties like from Ajwathli party suffer from and and my friend rightly said that he would like votes to come from all parties and this is this is how it should happen that you should get votes from all sections of society and you should should not be a political party tied to only one social base that is a truly democratic aspiration of any political party the BJP has made it very clear that it doesn't expect and it doesn't want votes from Muslims and it so it's trying to I would say craft a Hindu which is so decide decisively anti-Muslim that it would forget all its material wants and material will bring to to or sacrifice all of them for this spiritual spiritual gain it is yeah that is how I look at it right but we know that what Apurbanan just said we see a complete psychological annihilation of of a voter if you particularly talk about UP and of course it's happening across the states with doles with freebies where people have stopped thinking about issues like governance issues that matter to them they are happy with cylinders being doled out they are happy with a monthly emolument which is being given out so does really BJP wants the does BJP really want an awakened voter or for that matter other political parties as well? See Neelu there are you know there are two things to me are very clear you were talking earlier about anti-incumbency now UP in the last 35 years has never returned the same government again right this now people are speculating this might be if BJP has an edge this time it could be probably the first time that that an incumbent government you know you know is returned to power right so now my sense is within BJP in their internal deliberations there is some worry worry about anti-incumbency which is why my information is that until about two months ago the the main slogan for UP was to be Firek Bar Yogi Sarkar now it was it was to be hinged entirely on Adityanath but then they figured that that there are problems with with Adityanath his leadership probably he was he was to be projected as a Hindu leader but he's coming across the messaging is that he's coming as a Thakur leader there are all kinds of problems with and and therefore Modi Prime Minister Modi steps in in a big way and they from a campaign which was supposed to be sent centering totally around Adityanath it is now you know Modi coming and taking pictures together Mr Modi putting his hands around Adityanath's arm doing the you know Kashi thing also you know inaugurating roads but it's it's always Modi also there so Modi is trying to bring his it's very clear his vote catching ability to the table and and they are worried about non-yadav obisis this time one good thing in my view one one interesting thing Akhilesh Yadav has succeeded in doing is that he's struck alliance with small small other non-yadav obisis you know Rajbhar's and you know Patel's and others it is it is bothering them this is bothering the the BJP because if two to three percent of the voters leave you know you know there are about I don't know there the total non-yadav obisis are upward of 30% in UP, 35% but they are there they are in very small denomination two to percent one percent you know like that four percent so so if if he managed to pull some of you know nibble a little bit from each one of these you know sections there could be a there could be a surprise and and I for I for one I was very I was it was very instructive for me to see in a televised program in a in a proper debate on UP elections Swami Prasad Maurya a senior you know leader minister in the cabinet he very openly said that that we I mean he left the BSP he said we have joined BJP for real power sharing so far and he said we have not got real power sharing so far we have just been fobbed off with I mean he didn't say so many words but he he implied that so far we are just getting symbolic you know kind of now that is also why it's a it's a very uphakur oriented government and they are worried about Brahmins being not being very happy which which newspapers are reporting why so all I'm saying is there is anti-incumbency but there of course their hope is that their Vindutva campaign as Apurvanan said their their dog whistle campaigns Kabiristan you know you know Tirstan, Kashi, Vishwanath Naum, Mathura all these they are hoping will will stem this this fall or this erosion in there in the various non-Yadav UBC you know words after all they're also Hindus so so I would end by saying that in 2017 and also in 2019 Mr Modi successfully managed to you know earlier there used to be the narrative that that it was Mandal versus Kamandal right there was the two used to be seen as binaries but I think Modi succeeded to some extent in infusing the two in converting Mandal into Kamandal so Hinduization of you know OBCs now that in my view that will not sustain unless he delivers on the ground delivers genuine power sharing on the ground I'm not just saying economic development now they they're all they've all become very aspirational the Rajbars and the you know Moria's and all they want they want real power as Swami Prasad Moria said that to me is an interesting sociological or whatever you know social engineering study absolutely but Ashutosh if you had a look at the ABPC voter survey it still says that BJP is going to form the next government in Uttar Pradesh and Samajwadi party is on number two with 130 to 139 seats so don't you think that you would have stood a chance better if you would have aligned with parties like Congress or BSP which which so far seem to be a strict no-no for Samajwadi party so I think Mr. Venu has hinted something about Swami Prasad Moria and he has diverted the thing so look Congress and Bahujan Samajwadi party has already been joined with the Samajwadi party in the last four years most of the influential people from both parties have joined and the perception of Uttar Pradesh has been very clear that neither Bahanji nor Congress is contesting fairly enough in any seats even their prediction that Congress can hardly is a seat hardly one of a single seat or two seat in Uttar Pradesh so I don't think we will be benefited and the previous experience was also not so happy with all these things so definitely we hit on this mandal because we always know that this mandal is always heavy on this command and that's the way the Bharti Janta party has also changed the past their path at various times if you talk about the July they have extension they have given the extension to union cabinet and inducted about 15 members of OBC committee in the cabinet and it was the first time in the history of India that Prime Minister had shouted this loudly in the parliament that we have made it such amount of OBCs in our cabinet and none of the Prime Minister has said like this so initially they want to come on attack on non-Yadav OBCs and then want to give the cabinet but suddenly they feel that now the development issue is also very important the rolling prices of petrol diesel is also a problem the LPG prices is also a problem but the general perceptions of the five years yogi Adityanath Sarkar is there that this is the upper caste mostly dominantly Chhatriya party which has been if you see about the cabinet there are about 12 about six cabinet of Brahmin committee about eight or nine cabinet of Chhatri committee and only five of OBC and what you said that Swap Sath Moria has come from the smart party to this way BJP just want to have a sharing of power but what is the actual reason what your actual position right now majority of Bharti Janta party OBCs MLA say that yes this is this is not like that what we feel is sorry for that and I think in in a day or two when the board of conduct has been regulated you see most of the things will be changes because this is a clear cut concept why you are ignoring some some sundays not only the Muslim they're also you know they're making the powerless MLA's of OBC committees even the SC committees so I think that this party is very strong then they are they are also defaming our ourselves by making charges on corruption on a Kaleshi they are making CBI and IT rates so I think the public is very very open-minded sweet in 2007 the Uttar Pradesh has first time given full majority to Bhaujan Samaj party what happened to same public in 2012 they have rejected Samaj Bhaujan Samaj party and given full power to Samaj Bhati party and the same public the same voters have given full power something majority to Bhati and the party so they don't excuse you if you have a mistake then a mistake so that's what we want to say that this is a new Samaj Bhati party who is neither anti upper caste anti lower caste neither radical Hindu nor radical secular you want to have a very soft and if when you're talking about the why Samaj Bhati party is talking about the Vishnu and see if you see about the Delhi election why Arvind Kejriwal was chanting about the Hanuman Chalsa in the open forum because Delhi is a population of progressive people they want they want the party a part of our extreme right or extreme blood so similarly Mamta Ji has done right so what we feel that Indian Indians are more sentimental to the religious we can't be a very right way or very left way so it's a matter that ticket right wing is coming in the power but they don't expect to come like this way you are you are meeting somebody yeah and but if you talk about creating a very sane and a very logical democracy people say that you have to keep politics and religion away from each other but that that's a different I think that's yeah no no I know that's what that's what I said it's it's a utopian concept in in the Indian context but Professor Purbanand in this whole fight between BJP and the Samaj Bhati party people are really not talking about the the noise made by Congress look at Piyanka Gandhi the way she is wooing the the women voters especially you know with these marathons and she she has done her bit so to say if not Rahul Gandhi has put in his entire might but where does Congress really stand at the moment in Uttar Pradesh in in many ways it's a beginning for Congress party organization of Congress party had withered away in the last 20 years Congress had demoralized there were no there were no real leadership left and in in the state all the presidents of the UP Congress spend their time in Delhi so workers were feeling left out there was no relationship between leadership and the head of Congress party in I think this is the first time the leadership is making a serious bid to rebuild its organization and it's a welcome thing I I I would say that what Priyanka Gandhi is doing would ultimately help the Samaj Bhati party because Priyanka Gandhi is organizing a water base or people's base which could be definitely and BJP and it would help Samaj Bhati party because as my friend like rightly said that still Congress is not seen as a serious contender for power in Uttar Pradesh so the people who are supporting Congress would vote for Samaj Bhati party is the one to vote out because they believe in the ideology of the Congress party and if you talk to Congress people privately they would agree and they would say that we don't mind it because the prime objective is to oust BJP because it's very dangerous and and I think what Priyanka Gandhi is doing and it it looks it is very feverish it's the temperature is very high and it would be a challenge for the Congress leadership to sustain it for the next two years or three years till 2024 so the problem with Congress has been that the only adhesive force for Congress workers is in power so if you don't offer power I should I come to you but this is the first time they are trying to build an ideology base and it's very good Priyanka Gandhi it has also taken because she has talked about attack on Muslims that people have visited families of those who were assaulted or killed during anti-CEA movement she offered security Congress party offered security to Dr. Afil Khan so it was very open support to Muslims and it was huge risk because to be seen as sympathetic to Muslims is now seen as an electoral risk nobody wants to take so privately they would go and sympathize with Muslims but publicly they don't like to be seen in company with Muslims so I think what the Congress party is doing and the leadership of Priyanka Gandhi is is very healthy for Indian democracy and for for the state of the nation but it needs to be sustained over a period of time next two years three years they will have to organize your organization and then they will have to make a serious pledge for power because in India change changes take place through elections and you have to be seen as a serious player in elections right but you rightly said that you know somewhere down the line Priyanka is trying to galvanize you know all the efforts of Samajwadi party before I go to Wayne yes Ashutosh you wanted to button at that yes since I'm a not official spokesperson of Congress party but I do agree with what the Puranji has said so what we feel as a layman as a layman since most of the my relatives are in rivalry what we feel that there is a lack of communication between the Congress party leaders and the normal public see a Puranji is telling that Dr. Kapil has got a security personal security for Congress and Kapil is my good friend even I don't know about this Dr. Kapil is also predetition I am a predetition we talk regularly but even I don't so what that the major problem is communication from 2014 to 2019 they have lost almost all elections except Rajasthan and Madhupuresh and the party who was one of the part of Indian independence and the party who is not ever in the independence struggle is giving a certificate of nationalism so this is a part of problem with Congress they have not changed their communication strategy with the people and that's the way they are not I do agree that Prenkaji is doing very good but it's too late for Uttar Pradesh and as a Puranji has said that the people want to vote Samajwadi party just to pull out Bharti and the party and then we will see what to do next and this is my personal view about that but what do you really think that you know has Congress really thrown the gauntlet and they've said that okay we've surrendered because yesterday the way they announced that of course COVID is the reason why they cancelled all their rallies but it is also perceived as a fact that you know they have sometimes I mean they look like in a surrender mode they know that they are not going to win and they've taken a moral high ground of course making COVID as a reason but they've surrendered altogether. Yeah in the sense you know that's the impression that Neelu what you just said is the impression that even people have so that's not very good for a political party if people perceive that a party like Congress is not seriously fighting elections and to some extent I feel like when Priyanka made that big speech about reserving you know 40% of the seats for women should have come about a year earlier and should have worked through that strategy I don't know whether they have so many women candidates I don't know how they're going about it I got the impression that the announcement was made and then they were thinking it through I don't think they're taught through the whole thing before announcing that that's the impression I have but having said that it's a good strategy to bring that many women you know in politics making them you know bringing them in the electoral fray and the other point Neelu is that Akhilesh Yadav I remember after the last elections defeat he in one of my meetings with him he told me that the the alliance did not work because both either with both with Congress and BSP because because the vote transfer didn't did not happen you know in the sense you know the BSP votes were not coming to him his votes went to BSP in the case of Congress because they were alive with Congress the you know Brahmins who would otherwise voted for Congress did not go so so in a way it's good that these people are fighting separately so the finally I would say the the real if you keep aside I mean I go with Sanjay Kumar's analysis CSDS he wrote a piece recently Sanjay Kumar he said that BSP is say 18-19% vote is like it's it's solid and it doesn't move anywhere now besides that for the remaining 92% votes there is a bipolar fight between BJP and Samaj. But if that is a situation I think it's it's it's a good it's a good thing to happen because I think the the opposition votes will not get needlessly fragmented if that is the case if what Sanjay Kumar says is the case. This entire campaign in Uttar Pradesh is really going to be interesting and all eyes would be on the narratives which are built over the next one month what all does BJP say and how does Samaj Vadi Party really counter it it's a big challenge but all eyes would be on the campaign which is built up over the next one month. Thank you gentlemen, thank you gentlemen Professor Apurva Nan, Dasya Toshwarma, I am Kibenu it was wonderful talking to you and we'll keep bothering you on news click with your discussions and insights thank you so much. My pleasure. Thank you. Thank you.