 Good day and welcome to the Government Information Services panel discussion on two very important bills, which will be discussed in the House of Assembly on October 30, 2018. Now the two bills are the Child Justice Bill and the Child Care Protection and Adoption Bill. And to discuss this, we have three guests in the studio. We have Mrs Elizabeth Lewis, Director of Social Services, Beverly Ann Poyott, Director of Family Court, and Yolanda Jules-Louis, Director of Probation and Parole. Welcome, ladies. So let us start with the purpose of these two bills and a little bit on its background. Can you speak on that? Well, yeah. This morning we are here to discuss the two bills, as you indicated, and so we should take a step closer to improving our legal landscape with respect to how we engage and deal with children and families. And so we will hear a little more, a lot more, in fact, about what is referred to as the Child Justice Bill, which speaks mainly to children who come in conflict with the law and the Child Care Protection and Adoption Bill, which speaks to how we deal with children who are victims of abuse and who need support from the state. Okay. For now, I just want to speak briefly on the Child Justice Bill. The bill mentions the age of criminal responsibility. Could any of you explain what that is? Okay. Age of criminal responsibility in St. Lucia currently is 12 years old. It is the minimum age at which a child can be held responsible for committing infringing penal law in St. Lucia. In other words, a child at age 12 can be arrested and charged for committing an offense. After the bill is passed, the age will be 12. Or is it currently 12? It is currently 12 and it will be 12 after the bill is passed. It will remain 12. So what are the sort of implications that you foresee with the passing of this bill or with the age of criminal responsibility being 12? The age of criminal responsibility, what really it does is to allow us within the juvenile justice system to really look at whether that child has an understanding of what it is that they did. And that is what the age of criminal responsibility really speaks to. As we know, all children go through their development in a progressive manner, but some quicker than others and so that will allow us to be able to determine whether that child understands what it is they have done and whether they can actually be held responsible for the action which they have committed, an action as we are speaking, something that would be against the laws of the state. Has there been any sort of psychological research to determine that at that particular age, a minor would understand their responsibility? Yes, there are studies that have been done. And if we just look at the general child, the way, the manner in which a child develops, general developmental stages of children, it has been determined that that is a reasonable age at which a child should have a basic understanding of right from wrong, good from bad. Things that a child is normally taught, you know, from a very early age. And what sort of, does St. Lucia have any secure facilities that can house children who have committed offenses at that age? Yes, we currently have the Boystream Incentre, as everybody knows, that is our detention centre for boys who have come into conflicts with the law. For us in St. Lucia, it's the only institution that we have. And Boystream Incentre also houses our children, some of our children, who are in need of care and protection. The facility has been separated in two, so that they are not completely together. So you have that facility. It is our hope that we will get a facility for girls. Currently, we don't have a secure residential facility for girls. However, having said that, we, when we look at the Child Justice Bill, one of the things that it speaks to is diversion. And I guess we will discuss that a little bit more. So diversion really is going to allow us to be able to assist children, to be able to put programs in place where children don't necessarily have to be housed, don't have to be in detention centres in order for any kind of rehabilitation to take place. So what exactly does diversion mean? If they're not housed in the detention centre, so that means they will be taken care of in another facility or in a sort of transit home or at their own homes by their parents? Okay, basically, Diverian is going to speak to a procedure that the courts will use for children in conflict with the law. To send them to programs that will help with their rehabilitation. So these programs may be their programs, hence they will not stay in any residential facility for that matter. Just to add a bit, and let me just take us back a bit in terms of a brief background and history. One of the things we've recognised, or it was recognised back then, that's San Nushan, other OECS countries signed on to a number of conventions and treaties, and of course we have to live up to certain standards if you're going to sign on to them. So these bills actually came out of, these two bills that we are discussing this morning there are coming out of another group of five or other bills that were put on the table as areas that we needed to improve on as we deal with children and families. So there's going to be a lot of changes. Now I heard you ask about the issue of the age. Age becomes a big issue, not just in respect of the criminal responsibility, but age is going to become an issue in respect of the changes of who is a child. So this in those bills, a child will be considered somebody under the age of 18. Now that is a major shift for us. That is going to be a major shift for us, because as it stands now for us at the family court and at probation and at human services, a child is considered somebody under the age of 16. So with the passage of those two bills in particular, we will see age of a child now changing and so we are going to have a wider spread, a wider net by which we can provide support for children. And so the whole issue of diversion is for us to ensure that we provide enough services and support to young people, that we don't just take them and place them in institutions, that when we pick them up on offenses, minor, minor offenses in particular, then we can provide them with a way out that they don't necessarily have to get themselves within the juvenile system, the justice system, and of course, be labeled as criminals as we do. And so the whole idea of the bills is to now ensure that our young people, our children, our families are given greater support within the justice system. In terms of, as you mentioned, that the punishable ages is, well, children are considered children under 16. What does that mean in terms of punishment of a minor who is committed to crime? Will they be held to the same standards as an adult committed to crime? Well, like anything else, if a young person commits a crime, we will under this child justice bill, there will be a particular way of dealing with and managing with this child. Of course, it doesn't mean that children will not be punished, as we say. You know, we always want to know that people get punished for doing something wrong. But certainly we are going to look at several other issues surrounding the child as to why the child got themselves involved with such, you know, in such a behavior. And so it is not just going to be you have stolen from X and so now we are taking you to court and now you're sending you to bodily or, you know, or to BTC, the boys' training center or somewhere. But now we are going to look at your history. We are going to look at your background. We're going to try and understand what made you do this. And of course, once it is deemed that this child, there is hope, you know, that we can work with this child, then we are going to provide services for this child under the whole idea of diversion. Diversion is a major aspect, as you would have heard from Ms. Poirot and Mrs. Mrs. Louis under the Child Justice Bill, because it really now is going to cause us as practitioners to work much closer with other entities within the society, because it doesn't mean that we see diversion, that diversion has to be done at the family court or at probation and parole or at human services. Now we have to engage the entire society to see how we can all now wrap ourselves around this particular child, all group of children, to ensure that their lives improve and so they don't remain out there and they end up, you know, as criminals, as we want to make our name. So what would be the role of the police officer in terms of apprehension or attention of a minor offender? Let me let Mrs. Louis, because this is really the role of probation. Actually, under the Child Justice Bill, the police are the first responders to apprehending a child. Once the police apprehends the child, they need to inform the probation department, so that this word is, this word that a child has been apprehended is actually communicated to a probation officer, who will then, in all respects, begin to handle the matter from then. So the police actually are the ones who are going to apprehend and they have to communicate to probation. And what is the process when it goes? Within a specific time period. What is the process when it goes to the probation officer? Child's matter of case is reported to probation or to probation officer. The probation officer will engage with respect to carrying out assessments, risk assessment, mental health screening tools, getting parents and all significant others involved. And the child, after all these assessments and reports are going to be submitted to the magistrates who will be sitting along with two other social workers on what is called an inquiry. What happens in the event that a police officer is unsure of the minor's age? This is verified, having hold of both certificates for the child. That's one of the first things that has to be done. The age of the child, you spoke of uncertainty of the age of the child in as much as the police officer who makes the apprehension reports to probation. The child's parent or guardian also has to be called in. So in that manner, all of the biographical details and all of that would be part of the preliminary assessments that Mrs. Louie was speaking about together with the mental health screening and all of these kinds of things. Mrs. Louie also made mention of the initial inquiry. It is at the initial inquiry that our first level of diversion can come in. Because at that inquiry, we would already have a background of the child. And it's very important for us to note, hey, that is one of the major differences that we are going to have in our system. Generally, when a child is apprehended now and brought to court, we know very little about the child. It is only right before sentencing that the probation officer is required to do a pre-sentence report. With this new system coming into place, we're going to have information about the child prior to going to court. So we already know who it is we're dealing with. And it's important because we are now looking at dealing with children who come into conflict with the law in a very individualized process. It is no longer one-size-fits-all. And so knowing about the child going into the initial inquiry, whether the child takes responsibility for their actions, all of these are going to determine whether diversion can happen at that point in time. And that is what we call pretrial diversion. What are the sort of the rights that a child or a minor would have while being detained in police custody? Rights of the child. The child has the right to have an attorney. That, again, is another major shift in the manner in which we deal with children. So attorneys will be made available for children who require it. The child also has the right to have their parents and guardians present. The child has a right to speak and to say whether they understand or don't understand something. So these are just some of the basic things that the child is going to be part of the process and not the process happening around the child. Is there any circumstance where a minor could be sent to a place like Bodley Correctional Facility? Based on our current system, because we do not have any additional facilities, there is a unit at Bodley that has been designated for age 16 to 18. And in the absence of any other institution, that area at Bodley can still be used to house our children age 16 to 18. But as I said, it is away from the general population and it is designated specifically for that category. With the passage of the new legislation, all of the processes and procedures will also be extended to them because they do fall into that category as children now. Okay, we are actually due for our first break right now. So this is the Government Information Services panel discussion on the Child Justice Bill and the Adoption Bill. We'll be back in a moment. I'm with my 13-year-old child. She's driving me crazy. I just don't know what to do. All that I need is some good leaks to wake up. Alice, ignore the counseling pension given. Government employees have free access to professional counseling services under the Employee Assistance Program, known as EAP. EAP? EAP? What's that? Not me that telling people my business. Listen to me, Alice. I was struggling with my child. I made an appointment to see an EAP counselor and I was very satisfied with the service that I received. And you know what? Up to a day like today, my information remains confidential. Cox, how come nobody in the office knew anything about your counseling? Ah, that's because EAP counselors, they work on the strict clauses of confidentiality. I know you know what confidential means. EAP, providing professional counseling services? How much is it? Girl, the counseling is free. Free for you, free for your child. And you know what? Your information remains confidential. Call the EAP unit at the ministry of the public service. Telephone number 468-2269 for more information. EAP Works, let it work for you. Welcome back. So before the break, we were speaking about the Border Lay Detention Facility. Could you speak on what circumstances would lead to a child being sent to the site facility? How specifically for minors? The main reason would be because of age. And the second reason would probably be because of the nature of the offense. Offenses come on different levels and based on the level of offense, the law speaks to what can and cannot be done at a particular level. Say for example, if a child is accused of committing murder, that would be one of the instances where the child would be sent to the secure facility at Border Lay. And could you speak on when the Division of Human Services actually becomes involved in criminal matters regarding juvenile offenders? Right, so the Division of Human Services really does not. When it comes to children engaging in offenses, there's children who would be dealt with through probation and parole under the Child Justice Bill. Division of Human Services, however, comes in where we talk about the Child Care Protection and Adoption Bill. Currently, we have one act that is a children and young persons act that would guide us, provide guidance to us and the court for both dealing with juveniles and children who require care and protection. And so with the separation now, which we are going to see with the passage of those two, with those two bills, Human Services now becomes the agency will have legal responsibility to ensure protection and providing support to children and families to improve the social situation. And so this is where we'll fit in. When this bill, the Child Care Protection and Adoption Bill is passed, Human Services will be named in this bill as having that legal responsibility, as I mentioned earlier. And so one of the things that is going to be different for us, apart from now having a wider span of children to deal with, now we are moving from just focusing on children under 16, now to focusing on children under 18, is that we will also have the responsibility for adoption. Currently adoption is being done at the Ages Office, the Attorney General's Office, they are responsible. But this new bill is going to move forward in that there's going to be an adoption committee, working very closely with Human Services for adoption because we recognize that adoption is still a child protection issue. And it's not just facing a child if anybody anywhere, sorry. So it's going to change how we do things at Human Services really and truly. We are going to see a difference in the type and number of orders that the court can provide to ensure protection of children. We are going to see changes in how we do our own processing at Human Services. There's going to be issues on time limits for investigations that is going to be very critical as we go forward in ensuring that we respond in a timely fashion to issues of children, anything that comes in for needing child protection. And of course, another major one first is going to be the issue of supervision. So whereas a child may present in challenging behaviors, presenting challenging behaviors, currently probation and parole would engage them. It would now become the responsibility of Human Services and we would have the option, if after working with the family, that we are not seeing that kind of synergy, that kind of work with the family and the children, then we can go before the court and ask for a supervision order to ensure that things happen in the manner as was planned with the hope that it's going to improve the child's situation. I want to get to the adoption bill in a second, but before I move on to that, I want to explain the issue of confidentiality with regard to the Child Justice Bill. And it's important regarding the identity of alleged child offenders. Could any of you speak on that? Like anything else, I'll start off on what Mrs. Louis take on. Confidentiality is always very important when you're dealing with children and families. I mean, for us, even on the adoption, I mean, there's a penalty. There's going to be a penalty for anybody who gives out any information regarding adoption. And likewise with young people, that when they come in contact with the law, what we certainly do not want is for the information to be out there in the public. We have to respect that, notwithstanding that they are children, they have rights too. And one of those rights is to ensure some level of protection and support for them. And this is where the whole issue of confidentiality is coming, how we are going to engage and process them. It's going to be very, very critical in their own development and how they turn out under the system. Then, if Mrs. Louis wants to add a little more. Yes, just basically to state in the initial inquiry process to maintain confidentiality until only be persons who are important to the process of what is happening to the child. For example, significant others, no other person will be allowed in the initial inquiry process. Okay. I want to stretch that a little further and speak to the whole issue of record, a police record, as far as a child is concerned. When we speak of confidentiality, when we look at people who come into conflict with the law, we know that there's a police record that follows them. With our children, there's going to be no record that follows them. So if anything happens before the age of 18, yes, it is logged, it is catalogued, it is kept in confidence. But after the age of 18, there is no criminal record that carries over with that child. So in the event that I'm thinking of a scenario here where a minor offender gets to the age of maybe 2021 and they're applying for a job or a scholarship or something of that nature, their criminal record from under the age of 18, it will not have to disclose that, it will not affect them in any way. It should not affect them unless, let me just clarify, unless it is one of the level three offenses which are the higher category of offenses. Such as, as I mentioned earlier, for murder and things like manslaughter. But if we're talking about things like stealing, petty theft and so on, that is not going to be on record. Okay, the other thing I can share on that is, this child having a teen age past 18 can now apply for their records to be expunged. Okay? Okay. Now I want to speak about the child care protection and adoption bill. With the child care bill, will this give children more of a say in their own welfare? And what exactly does it mean that they will have more of a say with regards to their own welfare? Currently, and I'm going to speak from a wider societal issue that we seem to think that children should not have a say in things that concern them. Part of what this bill is going to be is that when we sit to discuss plans on behalf of a child, once a child is of an age to understand, then the child is allowed to make an input. Because if, let us face it, if you are going to make a decision on my behalf, shouldn't I be part of that decision making to say what I would like, what I would not like? I mean, it doesn't mean that it will always take what they say into consideration. I mean, to do what they say. But of course, this bill is going to allow for a wider discussion to take place, to allow children to be able to present their side of the story. And not just us as adults sitting and making decisions about them. I must say though, currently what happens when a matter is taken into court, the magistrate at the family court does sometimes allow the child to come in and present their issue. So it's not going to be very different. It's just that it's not going to be in a bill. Because sometimes you need to hear from the children what really happened and what would they like, especially when it relates to placement of children. If you are going to remove a child from their home for whatever reason or the other and you're looking to place them somewhere else, they may be able to guide you in terms of where best they can be placed or who is the best person to have them. And that is also taken into consideration in adoption situations where when children are of a certain age, you can ask them. I mean, Jacques wants to adopt you. How do you feel about it? And so this is the whole idea behind that. Now you mentioned the child being removed from their environment or their home. What sort of circumstances would lead to that? Well, as happens now and as will continue to happen when this bill is passed, is that when a report of child abuse is made to the Division of Human Services, so we now have to investigate the matter and to move immediately into determining the safety of the child. And so if this deems that the issue is within the home and the child needs to be protected almost immediately, then what we do is make an application to the courts to have the child placed in another setting. Always and always, we look at family first. So we may look for an aunt, an uncle, somebody who is directly related to the child or somebody who has stood up for the child in the past. And so this is something that we are currently doing and it is going to continue with this new bill. Now, I also, you mentioned that the, obviously earlier on that the child would have more of a say. How do you ensure that the child understands what is going on? Are there provisions in place to ensure that the child, let's say a five-year-old, if he's being removed from his home or his environment, how do you ensure that that five-year-old understands exactly what's happening? Well, for a lot of us who deal with children, we know at different ages there's a language that you can use. And of course we are going to have our clinical psychologists, our counselors, persons who understand where the children are at and we'll be able to explain to them in their language what is happening and it is very important and that is certainly there in this new bill that we explain to the children in their language and at the age and stage of development what the process is going to be. The bill, just to expand on what Mrs. Lewis was saying, the bill also makes provision that human services can place a child with a perspective adoptive parent even prior to the adoption and this kind of situation would allow for the kind of synergies we want to see to see whether the parent and the child is a good fit, to see whether everything is working properly. So having the ability to do that, having the law state that it can be done is also very important. Along with that there's also the whole issue of foster care. Foster care is a system that we have had in St. Lucia for many, many years but it has never been legislated. This bill is actually going to legislate foster care and allow the division of human services to take even more stringent measures in terms of who can become foster parents, what are the responsibilities of the foster parents, what are the responsibilities of the division to the foster parent and in addition to which what are the responsibilities of the child who is now going into foster care. Because in as much as a child is placing foster care for say some sort of abuse, that child also has some sort of responsibility in that new environment that they are being placed and the responsibility obviously is for their own safety. Okay, we are actually due for our second break. This is the government information services panel discussion on the child adoption bill and the child justice bill. We'll be back in a moment. Pamela, I noticed that you built your retaining wall on my property. You'll have to give me my land back or compensate me for that. My contractor isn't dumb. I trust that he will not build anything on your property. Where is your proof? Let's go to court. This situation does not require you to go to court. Looks like we have to go through mediation here. Mediation is a way people resolve conflicts like this. Someone, a third party comes to speak to both parties. This person is called the mediator. The mediator is impartial. He or she makes sure that communication between both parties is effective and efficient. So, the mediator is a judge? No, the mediator is not a judge. Mediators, unlike judges, do not decide cases or impose settlements. Let me get a mediator to handle this retaining wall and that kitchen. Kitchen? Yes, your kitchen also falls on my land. Let me call the mediator. Welcome back to the Government Information Services panel discussion on the Child Care Protection and Adoption Bill and the Child Justice Bill. So, earlier you were talking about foster care. Could you speak a little bit about the role of a foster parent? What is a foster parent? A foster parent is somebody who puts themselves forward, wanting to assist a child who's in need, a child, say, for example, who has been abused or neglected. And so the foster parent now becomes the legal guardian of that child, taking full responsibility for the child. As I indicated earlier, the Division of Human Services has that program in place, but now the law is going to speak to it and is making it something that is legitimate if you want to call it that. So, let us say that I have knowledge of a child that is not being adequately taken care of or abused in their home. What do I do? What is the process that I have to initiate to ensure that that child is removed from that environment? If I am a neighbor and I notice something's going on, what happens then? I'll start and then I'll let Mrs. Liss continue with that one. If you are aware, your first responsibility is to report it. And you can report that abuse to either the police or you can report it to the Division of Human Services as well. OK, so that is the first responsibility report. What it is you see, how often you see it, what is happening, and what are your perceptions of what is happening. And once you do that, of course, you now are going to do that without any fear of your name being mentioned or anything. So again, it's a confidential process. So once human services get that report, then they start with whatever processes, with their processes of investigation. Yeah, and to add to that, one of the things that I'm going back to the bear, one of the things that we're now seeing is a whole issue of persons who are mandated to report. So we have the issue of mandatory reporters and persons. I'm speaking of persons like teachers, persons who work with children, doctors, nurses, counselors, school counselors. They will be mandated reporters, and that is actually in the bill. But apart from that, I mean, anybody who sees a child being abused or neglected should be concerned. And your concern should lead you to reaching out to some agency or somebody who can provide support to the child. Hence the reason, and we always ask people to make that call to the police or to the Division of Human Services. And I mean, as Ms. Port indicated, we commence the process of investigation to determine the issues of safety and protection of the child, and of course, move it through the challenge to be removed, the challenge to remain in the family. If it's a situation where you just work with the family and the child, that will be determined after we have assessed the whole situation. Now, Mrs. Lewis, this other question is for you as well. When is the decision made by the Director of Human Services that an investigation should be launched into the welfare of the child? Once a report is made. Once a report is made, that starts the ball rolling. Is there anything specific you can mention in terms of a red flag? Well, a report is made, and I would imagine if somebody makes a report, they would say to you, I'm a way of this child, and this is a situation. And once a report is made, it is our responsibility. But even more so when the bill is passed to launch an investigation immediately to determine the safety of this child. And what happens if a report is made falsely well through a malicious intent? That's interesting, because we had just had some major discussion on that some time ago. Because as it stands, before I answer your question, we have lots of persons who see things and do not want to report. And these persons will be protected under this new bill. But of course, we have those persons who report with malicious intent. And that new bill does carry a fine, if it is found that anybody reported something maliciously. And I guess that is left for the court to hear the evidence and to make the decision. And you mentioned that you could ensure the complete confidentiality of the child throughout the entire process. I don't know that I could say it's full confidentiality. We recognize it's a small society. We always say to people, you can call anonymously. You can give the information. And we will as much as possible protect once you say you do not want to be identified. We have persons who call and say, it's me. Put my name down. And so they're happy to come into the court and to come to our offices to give reports. But there's going to be something in the bill for persons who also do not want to identify themselves. My other question is, when a child is removed from their environment, is their education interrupted significantly? Certainly not, even as we speak now. Once a child is placed, whether as we spoke earlier in foster care or placed at the new beginnings transit home, to some extent at the boys training center, the education is continued. They do continue with schooling. And of course with the bills, this is going to continue as far as possible. The child's education will continue once it's on the situation of care and protection. And is this whole process, in the entire process, what happens with children with developmental or physical disabilities? Yeah, well, it always poses a challenge in terms of getting placement. But when you look at the care and protection process, should not be any different for them. As it stands, now I know sometimes within the court and my colleagues I will tell you, issues of women dealing with children if speech difficulties and the blind child. We are very limited currently in terms of persons, experts who can provide support, whether it is for Braille or sign language. And so that is something we recognize as a society we have to work on, especially for those of us working with vulnerable children in that way. But it shouldn't be any different in terms of how you're going to process a child, whether it's what child is special needs or a child. A child, a child. Child is a child. A child is a child at all times. Yeah, and so we just have to look at this child as a human being that we need to assist. There's something I want to go back to is what we, earlier we were speaking about the adoption committee. Who is on the adoption committee? The adoption committee really is a new dimension in our process. And the adoption committee really is going to be there to assist and to guide the Division of Human Services. Division of Human Services is going to present all of the information. And they sit as a committee to determine whether this is a feasible alternative for the placement of a child. So the adoption committee for us is something that is really new for us in the legislation and something that we are hoping is going to make a significant difference. When we speak of adoption, the other thing too is that we are going to have some changes are going to have to be made. Once the bill is passed, as Mrs. Lewis indicated, the Division of Human Services is now going to be responsible for adoptions. It means that certain structures are going to have to be put in place in order to allow the Division to carry out that mandate. So there are some things, some structures, in all of the departments, as a matter of fact, that will have to be made in order for the proper use and fulfilment of these two pieces of legislation. And could you speak on who exactly is on the committee? Who will be on the committee? The committee would comprise a pediatrician and attorney from a representative from the attorney general's office, the director of social services, a clinical psychologist, a member of the NGO. But that committee is really under the remit of the minister with responsibility for human service. So he is going to look at what is needed and to identify persons who would suit the criteria in the bill. OK, we're coming closer to the end of the program. But what I want to talk about, the bill makes reference of care application, care orders and protection orders. Could you expand a little bit on those terms? OK, these are the various orders that the court is going to grant with respect to an application that comes before it for a child. So depending on the information that is given to the court, the Division of Human Services brings in the application and requests a care order or a supervision order. And then the court, the magistrate grants that order. So each of them is dependent on what specifically the child is required for the child and the order would be granted based on what the child really needs. So each of them, there's a slight difference between each of them and so the information and the evidence indicating whether which of these orders is necessary will be brought before the court in order for that to be made. And is there anything else that you, ladies, would like to add before we end the program? Just to say, I think, and I am sure I could speak from Ms. Boyotan, Mrs. Leigh, that we are extremely pleased that Senouchia is moving a step closer to legal reform to ensure greater protection and support for our children. We all know that our current laws are a cake. They do not reflect what actually happens now in society. It is a process that we have been on from since 2001, this model family legislation process. A lot of our partner OECS countries have gone ahead and passed some, one or two. But Senouchia has left, has been behind for some time now. And so we are certainly looking forward to this legislative change that is going to empower us as practitioners, empower families, ensure that there are proper guidelines and policies and protocols that are followed to ensure that our children and families get greater support. We sometimes, we say we live in a very punitive society that we want punishment. It is not always about punishment, but it's ensuring that there is development and growth for the better. And so it is, things are going to be different for all of us when those bills are passed and different for the betterment of support to children and families in Senouchia. Okay, well, I thank the three of you for joining me here on this panel discussion on child care protection and the adoption bill and the child justice bill. My name is Jacques Kingston Compton. Thank you for watching and stay tuned to more programming and to the, in the station. ["Pomp and Circumstance"]