 Okay. This evening we have three counselors attending remotely, therefore let the record reflect that counselors Darcy Dumont, Evan Ross and Andy Steinberg are attending remotely via speakerphone for the meeting on September 17, 2019 at 5.30 p.m. because it would be unreasonably difficult, which is permissible under 940 CMR 2900 for them to be here in person. So Darcy, can you hear me? I'm sorry. Darcy, can you hear me? Darcy, can you hear me? We could just drill it in. Hello. Darcy, can you hear me? Thank you. Can the other counselors hear Darcy? Okay. Evan, can you hear me? Evan, can you hear me? Evan, this is Lynn. Can you hear me? You have to be quiet, please, so I can hear Evan. Evan, can you hear me? Okay. You have to be very quiet, but if you are, can you hear Evan? Can you make yourself louder? Can I assume Darcy is still on the line? Yes, I'm still here. Thank you. Okay. Andy, can you hear me? Yes, I can. Can other people hear Andy? Yes. Thank you. Evan, we're going to try again. Evan, can you hear me? And can you hear Evan? Sort of. Okay. All he has to do is be able to do a roll call. Okay. So we've tested that out and let the record reflect that Councillor Damont Ross and Steinberg's attendance via speakerphone can be heard by all present at the meeting. All votes taken during the meeting with a remote participation shall be by roll call vote. Therefore, at all votes, the town clerk, I'm sorry, the clerk of the council will ask for the individual votes. If technical difficulties arise as a result of utilizing remote participation, I will have to suspend discussion while reasonable efforts are made to correct the problem. However, I just want to warn you that given the time limited nature of this meeting, we won't spend a lot of time trying to do that. If remote participation is disconnected, that fact and time, it shall be recorded and the remote councillors when you speak should state your name. And meantime, our technical assistants who are back here will indicate that a councilor participating remotely wishes to speak. Evan, basically that means you're going to have to just speak up and say, I'd like to speak since I understand you're on a cell phone. Okay. Seeing that we have a quorum in the room, which is important, we therefore can convene this meeting and I call to order on September 17, 2019 at 5.30 p.m. We have one action item on the agenda. It is a motion that is already on the floor and has been seconded. That motion is to move that the sum total of $90,000 be appropriated for purchase of a school bus and to meet such appropriation and to meet such appropriation transfer $90,000 from repurposed prior capital appropriations. The motion has been made and seconded. Is there any comment at this time? Oh, Mandy Jo. I moved to postpone to September 23, 2019 at 9 p.m. Is there a second? Could you just repeat exactly when you're postponing to? I didn't hear it. September 23, 2019, so next Monday at 9 p.m. 900. We have several other items on the agenda that are known. We have two forums. We have two and then we have a lengthy presentation on parking. So that's our answer. I will second the motion. Okay. The motion has been made and seconded. Does anybody like to speak to the motion? Alyssa? I'm totally lost us where we're at. I don't believe a postpone, if it's the postpone motion that was made last time, doesn't need a second. That's a completely different kind of motion. So I'm just trying to be clear on what we're doing tonight and what we're doing on the 23rd. And if we're not doing this item tonight with an official nuclear postponement like we had last time, then I don't believe we can take public comment on the item either because discussion is over and I don't know why we would take public comment on something we're not allowed to discuss. I wasn't asking for public comment. I was asking for councillors comments. And my understanding is that a motion can be made to postpone to a date certain. And that's the motion that's been made. The motion was made to postpone this vote until September 23rd at 9 o'clock. Right? Yes, please. Thank you. I'm making this motion because when Councillor Dumont invoked her right to postpone, the charter required that it be heard at the next council meeting, which happened because of our quirk and scheduling to not be a regular council meeting. It is my preference that votes like this be heard at regular council meetings. And if we had not had two special meetings scheduled between last meeting when she invoked her right and this meeting, that's a September 23rd is when it would have been heard. In addition, the person who invoked her right, Councillor Dumont, is not here in person tonight and all of us know participating remotely can be very hard to actually participate. We have a town council rule that when a person, when a councilor sponsors a motion or sponsors a measure, that if they cannot be at the meeting, that we postpone the discussion of that measure until a meeting they can be postponed, they can be at. And I realize she's attending remotely here and that she is not a sponsor, but she did invoke her right and I think it would be courteous for us to postpone this discussion until a time at which she can be present. A slightly further delay is not going to affect the vote and if it passes the purchase of a bus, but it would also allow time for Councillor Dumont to gather the information that she was seeking on the motion to refer that failed last week, a little more time to be able to be present here and discuss that information as it relates to the motion on the main motion on the floor. Lastly, there is a secondary right to postpone in the charter that if four councillors invoke that right tonight, the meeting cannot take place for at least five days. It has to be under the charter postponed for not less than five days. If that right is invoked and if that happens five days under the charter is not, is after the 23rd. And so doing this this way would allow us to hear the main motion quicker than if that right happens to be invoked tonight. Sean, Councillor Dumont, please speak. Yes, we can. I'd like to say that what Mandy Jo is requesting us is very simple. As the maker of the motion to postpone, I would just like to be present for this, what I think is an important discussion. It would be very simple just to postpone it to the 23rd. I'd like to do that for, I would do that for any of you. I really feel like collegiality is a value we honor as well as concern for the climate. I move to postpone not to be an obstructionist, but because I actually really feel deeply about the urgency to act on climate change immediately. And I think we actually all feel that now, especially with the huge climate strike happening this week and the Gazette quadrupling its coverage of climate and basically everyone upping their game. So I would hope that you give me that. I can't effectively defend my motion while participating remotely. The motion's been made. I feel like simply delaying to the 23rd would allow us to get some more really valuable information about the issues that could affect the vote and result in the whole council feeling better about the outcome. So I hope my colleagues will respectfully vote for this just simple delay of a few days until the 23rd. Thank you, Darcy. The motion has been made and seconded to postpone to a date certain that date certain being September 23rd at nine o'clock p.m. Are there additional comments? Alyssa? So I appreciate the technical explanation that Mandy Jo offered. That's very clear and it makes eminent sense to me and I don't think there's any argument here about that. My concern remains normally we don't take public comment after we vote and so will we allow for a brief period of public comment before we vote on the motion to postpone? Since the motion is to purchase the school bus or to postpone if people would like to comment about those two issues they can but this is not a motion about whether or not we're going to invoke any kind of climate change rules or anything else. It's only about purchasing a bus or postponing a meeting. I just want to be clear what what the motion is and what the discussion is. Yes. I'm sorry of all three. Okay. We only have 10 minutes left of this meeting. Are there other comments from the people here? I'm going to just continue to let them try to reconnect. Are there other comments from people here? I have a question. Dorothy? Last meeting Darcy wanted to make a motion to send this to the Finance Committee to do the research on climate change. Has that motion been withdrawn or not? That motion was defeated. Okay. And so I assume if a motion is made and defeated does it get brought up again? I'm just wondering if that's going to be brought up at the meeting on the 23rd and we have an emergency request for a school bus? I have not been informed one way or another that it would be brought up on the 23rd. Pat? Dorothy presented a series of questions that I thought were good questions. Would we have some answers to those by the 23rd? Thank you. The Council voted 8 to 3 not to ask those questions. Kathy? I am going to support this, the motion that Maddie has made to postpone it, but I wanted to know whether we could get an answer to one question I have right now, which is, is it possible to rent a school bus? And I just, and I don't need the answer to that now, but if we postpone it, because what I thought is if we could rent it, we could buy time to know whether there's a grant to buy the other school bus. And I have no way of knowing if we can rent. And Lynn, you're the one who mentioned rental might be a possibility. And I see that some of our school buses now are contracted. We don't own them all. So I'm assuming it's possible or someone would loan. So I just would like that answer next week if we could get it by the 23rd. Mr. Bachmann. I can look in if that's what the Council would like. You'll look in. For those, are you back on? Yes. Darcy, you're back on? Okay. I'm hearing Darcy, but is Andy back in? Looks like he's not. There we go. Okay. And is Evan back in? Yes. Okay. We have all three back connected. Steve. So I'm like, I'm going to vote no on the motion because I think we should deal with this issue tonight. 10 of us went through a great big deal of trouble to be here on time. I think it's courteous to us to deal with this now. We discussed this date, you know, at the last Council meeting, and it seemed to be, you know, at that time there were no objections to this being the date. Another option would have been a special town. I mean, essentially this is a special town Council meeting. That simply takes the call at the call of the President or the call of any three more members. So I love the three people that are not here, but 10 of us are here. That's way more than a forum. I think that we have the agency to deal with this issue tonight. Are there any other comments to us, Shalini? So this was a question for Paul. Question for Paul. What are the consequences? I mean, how, when we say this is an emergency, what does that mean? Like, how soon does a decision need to be made and what happens if we don't make a decision within a week or two weeks? What are the consequences? And then I have the same question as Kathy. Can we rent? And while we figure out all of these things. Sean, thank you. And we'll come back to your questions. Okay. Andy, go ahead. So I have a couple of things. One is that my recollection of the last meeting is that Mark Darcy made a motion that we voted on that motion. And then she made her rightful request to postpone on the main motion, which was the motion to adopt the order as presented. And so I wanted to make sure that I have my understanding correct. But also speaking as a matter of courtesy, those of us who are participating remotely, it was not an easy thing for us to do. I'm out in Colorado and visiting friends. I'm on the edge of Rocky Mountain National Park and I abandoned my plans for what I would have done today because I wanted to be a part of this meeting. It was important to me to be there. But I think there's a courtesy to those of us who put ourselves out to participate remotely, too. Okay. And, Shalini, you had a question about whether there is a consequence by delaying the approval of this regarding the purchase of the school bus and the urgency of it. Mr. Bachman. So my understanding from the school department is that waiting one week or two weeks does not impair their ability to deliver the service. If they get much later than that, they really need the bus when the winter season comes. And they have to do field trips and the electric bus isn't available during those periods of time, really. Are there any other comments or questions? Shalini. So I pulled up the reason. We have one electric school bus in Amherst that was part of a pilot program, which included Cambridge, Concord, and Amherst. And there is actually an electric school bus pilot project evaluation which has studied the energy and costs and so forth of running this bus in Amherst. And I think there's some really relevant important data in there, which I just found that reported. I'm happy to share it with the group. If you would please advance it to Athena and myself. We will make sure it's posted. Okay. And I think. Paul. I would just like to clarify for the council that you don't have a proposal to buy an electric school bus on the table. Only the town manager can advance that. And I have not advanced that proposal. The only proposal you have is to purchase a new school bus. You can vote yes on that or you can vote no on that. Those are the options available to you right now. Or postpone the decision. So the motion on the floor is to postpone to a date certain. That date certain is September 23rd at 9 o'clock p.m. If there are any further questions. Okay. A roll call vote. Councilor Baumann. The motion, if you vote for the motion, we postpone until the 23rd at 9 o'clock. Okay. Yes. Please use your mic. Yes. Councilor Brewer. No. Councilor D'Angeles. Yes. Councilor Dumont. Yes. President Griezmer. Abstain. Councilor Haneke. Yes. Councilor Pam. No. Councilor Ross. No. Councilor Ryan. No. Councilor Shane. Yes. Councilor Schreiber. No. Councilor Steinberg. No. Councilor Swartz. Yes. That's six yeas, six and one abstention. Okay. I'm. Fails. It fails. It fails. Okay. So we are back to the original motion and the original motion is to for the sum total of $90,000 be appropriated for the purchase of a school bus and to meet such appropriation transfer $90,000 from repurposed prior capital appropriations. The motion has been made in second. Are there any further comments? Shalini. So I understand this is not regarding the electric school bus and but I would I want to share helped me think about this question of this particular one about the bus right now. And so I just wanted to share some of the thoughts that went into it. So this is based on the report of the current but it's informing my decision about what I'm going to say. And I think it's important for everyone to know that that anyway what I want to say about because this is something whether we do it now or in the future. I think this is something we all need to discuss. I totally agree with you and as president of the council have spoken with councillor DuMont about that and we agree that there will be a discussion about this at end year future meeting. Okay, but I'm a little confused. If you don't have that discussion, how do we make the decision about this particular? You either vote to purchase this bus. You vote to go ahead and do the purchase. You know allocate the money accordingly or you don't. And then the school has to either come back with a different request through the town manager or not. Okay, so that motion on the floor that we are to vote on is the motion about the 90,000 dollars. Okay, okay. And I understand there's lots of other discussion that individuals myself included would like to have about energy efficient vehicles, energy efficient equipment. Okay. Okay, I'm just going to go ahead. That's not the motion on the floor. Okay, got it. But I just wanted to anyway, I'm going to still say this that just I pulled up a lot. I spent a lot of time on the report, so I just want to share some of the results. And then the reason is that, okay, not the reason, but here's what it is, that we, what was proposed is that there are a lot of savings, but the report actually shows that the actual energy usage was higher in the electric buses because there were a lot of issues with the initial round of buses. There was lack of training. We've talked, I mean, the proposal is that the operations cost is supposed to go down, but there were a lot of breakdowns with the electric bus we had in Amherst. So all I'm saying is I'm going to share the report with everybody, but I think the report really highlights the importance that if you're going to go ahead with electric buses, which we should be planning for in the future, we do need to really pay attention to the pilot program and what they found because that talks about training the bus drivers, it talks about having the right kind of equipment, it talks about a lot of different aspects that I will share. So that's my reasoning for wanting to wait and have the ECAC and other people look out for grants and also look at all these different aspects of what goes into making this successful and do it in a thoughtful way. So for right now, that's why I'm leaning towards saying yes for what we have right now. We need to go ahead with what we have, but in the future, these are the things we should look at seriously. Thank you. Are there other comments? George? These are all good questions and need to be addressed, but winter is coming, we need a bus. And the motion before us is to either purchase this bus or to send it back and ask for another request. I don't have any confidence that these very good but complex questions, including what Shalini has mentioned, can be answered by September 23rd or even by October 23rd. These questions need to be looked at. We need to have before us some kind of plan that makes sense going forward. We're not going to have that in the next couple of weeks or even next month, I don't think. And so my feeling is that we simply need to act and I will vote yes on this motion. Are there? Yes. Darcy, please. We don't have information. We've now started. We have now run into the time for the school committee to have their meeting. Is anybody connected remotely or have they all gone down? I'm sorry. Yes, please, Dorothy. I have a question to town manager Backelman. And is there a procurement board or people who work for the town of Amherst? We have a procurement officer, but every department is aware of the laws of the common wealth which governs our procurement process. Because to my mind, it seems that we need a, I can't use the word working group, but an ad hoc bylaw committee that of some people from the town who are involved in buying things and the school and some of the people from the climate action committee to do the research to talk about how we would go forward in the future. I am for voting for this bus, which has been an emergency request. But I don't want to sit here trying to make scientific decisions on this. I think that a group could go into a report that would guide our future actions. I'm just going to be very clear. We're going to have to stick to the public issue. The issue is, are we buying the bus? The issue about future vehicles, the issue about future equipment, furnaces, et cetera, buildings. We have the ECAC committee. Dorothy and I have most recently talked about that and what will be included in not only their goals, but in their implementation plan. And this will clearly be among those things. So are we back and connected? Okay. Dorothy, you wanted to speak and then it failed. You heard before, but I was just saying that I believe that we need, we still need to find out a lot more about the availability of grant money, of which there is a huge amount in Massachusetts, which would make a lot of sense to take advantage of. But we need to find out more about that as a council, what's available and so forth. And we also need to find out what, if there's a possibility of a temporary solution, like Kathy was mentioning, of using our contracted bus service for a short period of time, pending, applying for a grant. So, and the other question that I had is, are we having public comment? I'm going to just be very clear. This is a special meeting of the council, although we posted public comment we are not required to. I also want to be completely respectful of the school committee who has scheduled a meeting for 10 minutes ago, which is one of the reasons we're all here. This is not the last time that we will be discussing energy and clean energy policy before the town of Amherst. It is one of the first times, but it sure ain't the last. And I do feel we need to bring the meeting to a reasonable closure. Steve? I'd be happy to make a motion if that moves us along. You just call the question? Well, has there been a... We have a motion on the table. I move to call the question. Okay. The question's been called. There's a roll call vote. The motion that's been made and seconded is to move the sum total of $90,000 be appropriated for the purchases of a school bus and to meet such appropriation transfer $90,000 from repurposed prior capital appropriations. The motion's been made and seconded. The question's been called. There'll be a roll call vote. Unclosing debate. Was there a second? Second. Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Brewer? Yes. Councillor D'Angeles? Yes. Councillor Dumont? No. President Griezmer? Yes. Councillor Haneke? Yes. Councillor Pam? Yes. Councillor Ross? Yes. Councillor Ryan? Yes. Councillor Shane? Abstain. Councillor Schreiber? Yes. Yes. Councillor Steinberg? Yes. Councillor Schwartz? Yes. Councillor Baumeil? Yes. 1111. 11-4, one against, one abstain. The motion has been... The vote's been called. We'll now move to immediately to the vote on the original motion and that will be a roll call vote. Councillor D'Angeles? No. Councillor Dumont? We are voting on the original motion which is to have the town take some total of $90,000 be appropriated for the purchase of a school bus and to meet such appropriation transfer $90,000 for repurpose from repurposed prior capital appropriations. But that's what we just voted on. We voted no. We voted to vote. When somebody calls the question you have to vote to close debate. So we have... Would you please start over again? Councillor D'Angeles? No. Councillor Dumont? President Griezmer? Yes. Councillor Haneke? Yes. Councillor Pam? Yes. Councillor Ross? Yes. Councillor Ryan? Yes. Councillor Shane? Abstain. Councillor Schreiber? Yes. Councillor Steinberg? Yes. Councillor Schwartz? Yes. Councillor Ball-Millen? Yes. Councillor Breuer? Yes. 10. 10-2-1. Thank you. It's 10-4-2-0 and one abstain. I move to adjourn. Is there a second? Second. Do we have... We should do a roll call vote on that. Please quickly. Dumont? Griezmer? Yes. Haneke? Yes. Pam? Yes. Ross? I think we have to assume absent at this point. Continue. Ryan? Yes. Shane? Yes. Schreiber? Yes. Steinberg? Yes. Schwartz? Yes. Ball-Millen? Yes. Breuer? Yes. D'Angeles? Yes. Thank you. The meeting is adjourned.