 You seem to have made Haunted and Forced and Untold in a similar way. I wondered if you could talk me through your workflow. Is it a case of going out and gathering the material and then scripting your story through that material? Yeah, I have to sort of quite a definite process now I guess and it's sort of talking to the people, the inter-UEs initially and getting a sense of their story and the sense of the story and sort of to some degree mapping out the story before I've done the proper interview with them. So you know talking about email on the phone so I kind of have a sense of that and then being able to sort of shape the inter-UE and sort of direct the inter-UE in terms of that kind of story I want to tell. Then you know going to meet them and with Haunted you know it was generally going and meeting them in their house and hearing their ghost story sometimes traveling some distances you know with Forced and Untold I was traveling all across the States we did about like a thousand miles of driving and 24 hours of flights in a week you know going from like California to Nashville and but so collecting all the material and then bringing that material back and I get it all transcribed and I sit down with it and I go through it and I'm listening to it and reading the transcripts and piecing together my story and writing my script at the same time so I write script and I'm cutting and pasting the sort of transcribed material into that so you know it's a very sort of tightly woven, tightly told story mixing between narration and interviews and that is very time consuming by its very nature. So I come up with a script which is a mixture of audio material we've collected and and my narration and then I'm not I should learn how to edit I can't edit you know so then it goes to an editor or the producer depending on you know the setup if the producer can edit so then it's assembled into this kind of rough you know edit kind of thing and then I sort of make cuts to that and I sort of decided that should go or that should change and then the sort of final layer is it goes to this guy Pascal Wise who I've worked on both Haunted and Forced and Untold who is a brilliant sound designer and musician and he does the sound design and he writes music for it and with Haunted it was very bespoke music you know each episode had very different music to it and again you know these are all incredibly labor intensive layers and expensive layers because you're paying for people's time and so I make life very hard myself you know I mean I'm not sure I am advertising this as a kind of perfect way to make a podcast because it took me kind of months and months to make both of these series and you know it was kind of exhausting and and you know brilliant but exhausting and you know brain numbingly hard work you know but at the end of it I feel like I've got something I'm very proud of and and I feel like it's a kind of lush texture listen because we'd be able to have all these different stages that's Danny Robbins and this is the podcast producers podcast with me Neil Mossy it's a place where podcast producers share their tips and experiences so that everyone can start a podcast and keep going there's details of how to subscribe in the description thanks so much for getting to this point in the podcast and thanks again to Danny the links to him and his podcasts are in the description and if you've got this far into the podcast it's really good to have you here why not give me a thumbs up or a comment or tweet me it'd be lovely to hear from you and there's also details in the description for where you can find the next episode can you please help my daddy get 1000 subscribers just click on his face thanks bye