 Good afternoon everybody and welcome to today's webinar Express new product development in a virtual world Which has been organized by the CIM higher and further education group So I'd now like to hand you over to David Smith who is our guest speaker today over to you David Great. Thanks very much to you. Hello everyone. Thank you for joining It's really good to have you here, and I hope that you find this session interesting I found it really interesting in the preparation of it I'll start by introducing myself. So my name is David Smith, and I'm the head of marketing at the University of East London I've got over 15 years experience in education marketing and communications, and that's primarily in the London Higher Education Institutes my experience in HG is quite broad It's from brand management to campaigns market insight research strategic position in and portfolio development and obviously portfolio development It's going to be a key focus of what we're talking about here today For those of you that don't know the University of East London You might not be surprised to hear that we are a university in East London But you might not know that we were established in 1898 as the West Ham Technical Institute So we've got quite a rich and deeply rooted heritage in our local community We're now a forward-thinking university with an ambitious vision We essentially prepare our students for careers of the future So we support them to develop the skills the emotional intelligence and creativity To thrive in a constantly changing world and that vision was actually introduced back in 2018 In the context of the impact of technology on careers and industry of the future But actually since the pandemic out our vision has become a lot more Relevant as change and uncertainty and more prevalent in everyday life And I'm really proud to be part of such an ambitious and inclusive institution And equally proud to be part of the amazing award-winning marketing team at the University of East London So we were recently named a marketing team of the year of the year at the Heist Awards And for those of you that don't know the Heist Awards are the higher education sector awards and In terms of other other accolades We were also shortlisted as the only education brand For marketing team of the year at the most recent CIN marketing excellence awards So I'm now going to turn my camera off partly so that you can enjoy The slides in full glory of the full screen But also to give my Wi-Fi a fighting chance to make it through. I will turn my camera back on at the end So just going over what we're going to cover today And it really is within the context of the global pandemic as I think the title of this session Will have suggested that's going to be the backdrop and I'm going to be using examples from higher education and beyond And talking about how organizations have adapted their product portfolios in response to the pandemic and lockdown restrictions What lessons have been learned and how these can be applied to the way that we operate as we transition back to the new normal And what will be the opportunities and the challenges that lay ahead And I'll be using the theme of the acceleration of digital transformation and product innovation as I work through these points Looking at the opportunities that the pandemic has presented organizations and how this has been used as a platform to innovate Where perhaps traditionally risk adverse organizations might have otherwise lack the appetite or the culture for change So looking at product development, and I want to start with a definition and this is a relatively Simple one New product development is the transformation of a market opportunity Into a product available for sale And I'm going to take a relatively glass half full position on this one and say that the pandemic whilst it's been extremely challenging for businesses. It's also meant that they've had the opportunity To develop and adapt their product offer because life has continued to go on And obviously there's been a need for them to continue to trade as organizations as businesses in that time I also wanted to look at the different types of new product development And I think this is an important distinction that we look at before we go into the detail of the presentation So new product development can be bringing a new product to the market It can be renewing an existing product and this is going to be very much the focus of This session because obviously the pandemic gave us all that opportunity or challenge to look at the way that we were taking our products to market and the way that consumers were consuming our products in a very different world and Also new product development can be introducing a product into a new market And this is another thing that I'm going to touch on as we go through the session So to look at the pandemic and I just wanted to take a few minutes to Go over and remind us of the main factors that have impacted business in the short term because of the pandemic and I think One of them has been the lockdown and the practical barriers of delivery. So people haven't been able to leave their homes They've not had access to the products and the services in the same way that they did pre-pandemic Businesses have been forced to close their doors or find other ways of bringing products to market There's also been the financial implications of the pandemic So people have been spending less whether that's because they've got less disposable income Or they've chosen to spend less because of uncertainty in the economic climate and there have been some some industries some areas that have Seen increases over the last 12 months groceries alcohol books for example have all seen growth in that time but I think more broadly there have been a lot of challenges for business and companies have had to Really respond to to some challenging situations. So I want to start Looking at some examples of how businesses have responded to the pandemic and how they have approached new product development during that time The first example I want to draw on is from the restaurant industry and this is obviously been one of the biggest impacted areas Because their restaurants have essentially been closed and I think there's been two Broad responses to that one is that restaurants have pivoted To the delivery and takeaway models. So many fast food outlets will have already been exploring that as a revenue revenue stream Prior to the pandemic with the emergence of online food order and delivery services such as justy delivery and uber eats But the pandemic really meant that they had to fully focus on that as their main business income Other restaurants have Needed to close down completely. So those high street chains those slightly higher end restaurants that perhaps can't adapt their food Preparation times and their product offer for the delivery model completely close their doors and I think taking one of the biggest brands In the restaurant industry McDonald's and looking at what they did So after the initial closure for them So they decided in in March when the full lockdown hit to close down completely They started to open up and started to do that home delivery And they're already in a good position because they had launched their muck delivery service in the uk In partnership with uber eats back in 2017 and that had had some traction But it was a smaller part of their business the pandemic really allowed them to expand that and to focus on that as their online offer And they they opened up their reach to also include partnerships with just eat And now actually In terms of sales They're back above pre-covid levels. So despite all of the restrictions being in place McDonald's have managed to to pivot to this new model of of product offer and and build their business which is really quite quite impressive another example from the Restaurant industry that I want to go through is cote at home and this this image. Hopefully tantalizing your taste buds on a On a Thursday lunchtime So cote is a french themed restaurant and it's been During the pandemic given its customers access to many of its dishes and products That have been sold in its restaurant at their homes This is actually slightly different model to the one that we've seen in the fast food chains and that online delivery and ordering service Because they're not essentially delivering freshly cooked meals. They're delivering ingredients for their customers to cook at home So I think it's really interesting because it's a slightly different take on what the rest of the sector was doing at the time I think it's really interesting from the perspective of brand as well because it's still allowed them to maintain What's important to them, which is the the quality of their food And it's given us the customers and full disclosure here I have used this service and and enjoyed it very much It's given us a different option other than being left to our own devices to cook Which if you're anything like me in the kitchen isn't a good option because I'm not very good at cooking And the other option being the the array of fast food takeaways, which for me got very boring quite quickly as we went through Lockdown so I think this was a really interesting example I think for the chain it gave them a new revenue stream in the short term Not something that was going to Replace the loss of the the physical restaurants that they've seen for something that had at least given them a supplementary revenue And some think that hopefully they'll be carrying forward as they open up their restaurants And I think that it kept them front of mind to their customers And hopefully encouraged their customers to return to their restaurants when they open Another hugely impacted industry that I want to look at is air travel So as we know flights were grounded travel and tourism had stopped for many many months And airlines had no option but to cease trading in most cases But there are a few examples Of how some airlines have used the time During lockdown to to innovate and look at their product offer So the first example that I want to look at is contests. So they're an australian airline And back in october 2020 They started to offer a flight to nowhere So customers got on to their flight. It took off from sydney It was a seven-hour round trip going over byron bay the gold coast a great barrier reef and then landing back in exactly the same place um, the cost of this was around 500 pounds to 2000 pounds. So it was um relatively expensive for essentially going nowhere And I think broadly this was seen as a bit of a gimmick. Um, they they didn't Scale this up. It wasn't a big revenue Generator for them But I think that what it did do was um, it gained a lot of press coverage when there possibly wasn't a lot of press coverage around Airlines It also kept their customers front of mind and showed that they were thinking about their customers and The people that went on the flight were very happy to have done something that was a bit different and Got an element of travel back into their lives Another example that I want to touch on from the airline industry is finnair so finnair is the airline in finland and During the christmas period they started to offer virtual holiday flights So essentially it was a virtual flight which customers could Could experience could engage with on their laptops on their phones through virtual reality headsets Um, they could experience a flight an element of a flight look around that in virtual reality It lands in lapland and they get to visit center at the end So I was served this opportunity actually as an ad Back over the christmas time and I think it was because I had been searching for a center visits for my daughter So I think from that perspective. It's actually quite a good piece of digital targeting But from a strategic point of view, I think for finnair It wasn't about income generation because the flights only cost 10 euros and all of the profits went to fund To unicef's fund for children who were adversely impacted by the pandemic For finnair, it's more about taking the opportunity to reach a wider audience and tie its brand into the festive periods And to finland and the home of santer and I think that it's a really interesting one from the perspective of virtual reality because virtual reality really is a growing area beyond gaming And it shows how the pandemic allowed the brand and And finnair to really look at product innovation in the virtual space I think that this could possibly be seen as a bit of a gimmick But for me, it's slightly more meaningful than the contest example And I know that for finnair, they actually see this as part of their product extension going forward Um, they've cited this as being something that they're going to carry forward after the pandemic and that's by No means saying that people are going to stop traveling and And continue to do it virtually, but I think that this will complement the physical travel Allow in customers to virtually visit destinations and then look into book or virtually experience some of finnair's service features so their flights and their in-flight facilities So I think it's an interesting example from digital innovation But also an interesting example from the perspective of strategic alignment and product extension So i'm going to switch back now to higher education and the sector that I work in and look at how the pandemic impacted us So broadly we went from this so lots of students in in lecture theaters students on campus in classrooms To this students on their own in their rooms on laptops and I think this is probably quite a common picture for a lot of people and not only students but working as well and you know ourselves at the moment Experienced in this as well so due to the nature of products in higher education, which are courses, which are Consumed for a long period of time. We had a commitment to support our students To complete their studies. So we had students that perhaps were in the final stages of their degrees and really wanted to complete those degrees And to to build on the hard work that they've put in we had students that were earlier on in their degrees who Had already started that journey and were looking to complete their their learning journey as well So for us, we were fortunate enough to have a product that could be moved Completely online and that's what universities did. But it did present us with significant challenges Now first of all, there were varying degrees of virtual course delivery across different institutions Some institutions would have had experience offering online degrees and had quite sophisticated virtual learning environments Others are more Traditional setups and they would have found that pivots are online To be a much bigger challenge from a technological and a logistical point of view Not to mention cultural point of view There were also challenges in terms of access to To hardware and to internet connections as well So in a recent JISC student digital experience insights survey We know that 93% of students said that they had their own laptop So the majority of students would have been ready to set themselves up for online learning But actually it shows that there were still some students that wouldn't have been able to Transition straight away onto online learning and I think that that would have been disproportionately waited Towards certain demographics and certain universities. So a challenge there just in terms of getting students set up to learn online I think there's also the challenge of there being A differences in courses as well in higher education So some courses lend themselves better to online learning than others Some have that kind of practical lab based Element to them which means that learning online might not have been as simple as Another course which is more lecture based And also student expectations was a big challenge for us as well So when students started their degrees certainly their expectations of higher education went beyond lessons and learning There's the support services and social activities Were all very key to the student experience And then of course there's the challenge Of universities Having to adapt their delivery at the same time as having themselves to navigate the challenges of lockdown and the pandemic And as all of us will know it was a extremely Unsettling and scary time. I think that We had to work out how to adapt ourselves to work in remotely at the same time as working to support Students to get online as well. And I think there were some real challenges there I think from a staff point of view Certainly to manage that anxiety of everything that was happening Health issues of staff as well The technical setup of them at home and also the The focus that we needed to maintain on doing the right thing for our students and continue to provide that service And it wasn't really important that we continue to provide that service because a lot of universities rely on tuition fees So there was that real need to Deliver our courses and continue that delivery of the courses And due to the way in which the recruitment cycle work in higher education There was also a real pressure on continuing to attract prospective students for future intakes So this is a An overview of the timelines within higher education. So it shows the the various different academic years So the years where students are studying But also highlights the fact that overlapping those are recruitment cycles. So at the same time Um as students are studying Prospective students are also looking to study in future cycles. So during that full lockdown periods Um, it was really an important period for us because we were seeing out the 2019 academic year Coming to the end of that year and we're really trying to get those students across the line But we're also towards the end of the 20 21 recruitment cycle. So students who had been looking at going to university for many many months Were now presented with The prospect of starting in september to something that was very different to what they'd originally set out to To put themselves forward for and at the same time We had that 21 22 recruitment cycle where students would traditionally start looking at university options And um again having that uncertainty. So there are a lot of um Challenges there's a lot of uncertainty for universities as to how students would respond from that recruitment perspective Particularly for international students I think there's that you know uncertainty in terms of what the university experience would look like in september Concerns around affordability of going to university in a global pandemic and a potential economic recession And also general questions about the value of higher education in in this new climate And I think for for us at the university of east london these points became really prevalent and really key to our messaging And we launched a campaign at the beginning of lockdown to reassure our applicants and prospective students that we were still open Um and to provide clarity and I think this is a really important point That providing clarity of information to them was was really essential at this time because there was so much uncertainty and so much change In terms of recruitment there was also um disruption to to lead generation and conversion activities So we lost physical events and from a recruitment point of view. That's that those events are really important For generating lead and forgetting our brand out there. Um, the government response was also shall we say changeable? So I think that that gave us um a lot of challenges in terms of making it difficult Um to to plan and to forecast and and also decision making had shifted. Um, it was just unknown We didn't know how students would respond To what was happening and and what the future would look like. So a lot of uncertainty That said there were were some factors in our favor for a recruitment perspective We know that there was likely to be less employment options for school leavers. So recruitment Um To higher education then becomes slightly more attractive Travel had stopped so gap years anyone considering gap years may not have been an option anymore Um, and we know that older adults may have been out of work because of the pandemic Um, so looking to reskill or react positively positively to the pandemic and looking to higher education for that So looking now at how higher education responded to the pandemic And I think broadly before the pandemic This was the split of course provision at a standard university So it was mainly on campus the lecture hall type experience with physical access to campus facilities support services social activities and so on There may be have been some kind of online provision mainly through the sharing of resources of online information and support Resources for learning So obviously this is a very general view for most universities and some universities would be more advanced than this Particularly institutions that had online courses. So really just caveat and this is a general view As we then went into full lockdown The sector pretty much went completely online and I think that we actually responded very quickly I know at the university of east london within a matter of days we transitioned to a fairly seamless online delivery that was consistent if not slightly different to the learning provision that our students have had prior to the lockdown as restriction has lifted that delivery shifted back slightly to on campus and that was for courses that needed access to facilities and had some level of practical element to them That was to challenge in to fulfill virtually But there was still a lot of online learning still happening because of the restrictions in in place I think a really important element of this is the blended element of it Of online and on campus And so taking the learnings of the previous months when we've been purely online delivery To then support that back on campus delivery to provide synchronous delivery model for those unable to access campus And given them access to a range of resources and interactions in the virtual space So I think despite huge concerns as to what such a dramatic change might mean to recruitment in higher education The sector actually saw growth in 2020 so participation and except both increased for the for for the sector And I think there's a few reasons for this. I think part of it is the demographic increase So, you know that there are more 18 year olds in in the uk in in the past year Also the lack of other opportunities that I um that I flagged earlier And also I think part of it is to do with the positive response from universities both in that interim solution And being able to provide that online option for students But also in the communications from the sector So I think we did a really good job in being clear about what as clear as we could be About what the future would look like and how we can support students and what the value and benefits were to students of continuing or Deciding to take up their study options in during the pandemic So what does the does the pandemic look like? What does higher education look like after the pandemic? And this is the the model that we just looked at and I think this is purely my view on it, but I feel that we're going to be in a place where we're going back to on campus in a slightly more Fuller way. So the reason I think that we'll be going back to campus is because we need those access to facilities students need social activities and a big part of the student experience is that that access to campus I think from a regional national international perspective as well There are reasons that a particular location is going to be important to to students And working for a london based institution as I do There's that real focus on london as a destination to for some of our students So it goes beyond just them having a qualification from a university. It's about the experience and the themselves immersing themselves in a particular location But whilst I think some universities will be able to trade off of their brand and their reputation and deliver completely online and to give students a Valuable degree Because of that, I think other students will be looking for that added value from being able to be immersed in a particular location And I also think value for money as well is is an important point about that return to campus because It gives students slightly more in terms of what they are getting and that perception of value for money But I think there is going to be this increased level of online Synchronicity so really taking what's been learned during the times of fully online learning And applying it to enhance and curate that student experience and allow for an improved product offer So it's going to continue to allow us to deliver remote access to classes and lectures For classes that don't necessarily need to be on campus given students choice and flexibility For people who can't make it onto campus for personal reasons and we've seen a lot of that During the pandemic and it could be that there are elements of that that carry on as we go into the future And also allowing students to revisit and review content as part of that online offer And obviously this will look different for different courses to some courses We rely a lot more on being on campus than others And allow them to flex between the two in a bit more of a synchronous way But probably I feel that this is what it's going to look like going forward It's also interesting to see how the pandemic has opened up a range of opportunities from a market in a recruitment perspective For higher education So having to do everything virtually has made universities more quickly To move more quickly into the virtual space for engaging with prospective students So whilst virtual tours have been a staple tool for many years now for universities I think the pandemic has accelerated the development of them And the integration of them with virtual experiences for prospective students And my prediction is is that as we go forward we will have a hybrid of physical and virtual events So I think students will still take the opportunity to visit campuses physically but also at the same time Use the opportunity to to expand their research to be able to engage with other institutions Virtually and I think this very much reflects that shift of consumer behavior and the advancement of digital literacy that we've seen In the course of the pandemic and I think looking at an example such as Santander They've had Mobile banking online banking as a core part of their offer for a long time now and it's definitely a growth area but The pandemic has really accelerated that in terms of how their customers are using Those options to the extent that they have recently announced the closure of over 100 physical branches in the uk Because their customers in the past 12 months have really Started to lean towards those more virtual and online product offers So just touching back now on the variations on new product development that we talked about earlier And how I think that these relate to higher education So we've clearly seen that renewing an existing product The pandemic has given us the opportunity to trial fully online and take learning And best practice and up-steal staff And introduce more robust capabilities and infrastructures to provide better products for our students So it's given them more flexibility and more support In terms of bringing in new products to market I think that it's allowed us to to think about blended learning when we're building new courses And building that into our products to take to market rather than trying to retrofit it as we have over the past 12 months And in terms of introducing a product to a new market I think this is a really interesting area because it's allowed a lot of institutions a lot of universities to explore online learning In a way that they wouldn't have before And whilst some universities will revert back to that on-campus model that I presented Some universities might take the opportunity to think about actually how can I get our products our courses To students that can't travel to a particular location and and do want to engage with us online So it takes that that product of the course offer to a much wider audience So just to sum up and I think there's been some really interesting examples here of how How businesses how organizations and how sectors have responded to the pandemic? I think that theme of acceleration of digital digital transformation and product innovation Has been a key one and the pandemic has clearly given us significant challenges But also that unique opportunity to focus on digital transformation by immersing ourselves fully in the digital space I think that organizations have had little choice but to invest in this area. So they've up skilled staff increased digital and virtual capabilities and infrastructures And I think that we've seen that in the growth of online learning in he that product Delivery in a virtual space for the hardest hit sector such as the restaurant industry and airline industry I think that consumers have become More accustomed to a more digital world and product research and person behavior has shifted But whilst I think that it's almost certainly going to swing back to some extent It's going to have opened up the virtual world to a much wider audience I think the products were forced to adapt to the new world and while these were generally Measures that are unlikely to fully replace that pre pandemic offer. I think elements of them will no doubt have extended The product offer going forward for businesses I think as a sector higher education has really risen to the challenge and shown that we can be agile and creative focusing on the needs of our customers And we've gone above and beyond to deliver in unprecedented times And I think we can all take this more courageous way of meeting our customers needs forward as we look at those more innovative ways to develop our product offer And I think marketing teams play a key role in that. I think by being strategic and identifying opportunities for growth and innovation By being insight driven and evidence based but also learning from the agility and the experimentation that the last 12 months has afforded us And given us that license to take calculated risks and do things differently And I think by remaining true to brand so ensuring that as we take new product development forward in the virtual world That we keep brand purpose at the core of our plans for the future So that's everything for me. I'll hand back to you now Judith Okay, that's great. Thanks very much David for a really good presentation So we're now going to have a short Q&A session. There's still time to submit questions if you wanted to And we'll try to get through as many as we can in the next 10 to 15 minutes And just a reminder if you're enjoying today's webinar and you want to post on social media You can use the hashtag CIM events So the first question I'm going to combine two of the questions that we've received Do you think that universities can continue to offer value for money while moving to a more virtual model? And then someone else has asked have you had to differentiate your prices from the physical product to the digital setting? Good questions. Yeah, a really good point. Um, so I think on the on the pricing point of it I think the answer is no for now I think that during the pandemic universities responded in the best way that they could considering the restrictions and I think that We managed to develop an offer that was an interim solution and I think that solution Served its purpose. I think going forward if we're talking about fully online courses For a long time for for the duration Of a degree, then I think that's something that a price of discussion could be had But as I said, I kind of see that my prediction is that we're going to go back to that more on on campus or more synchronous way of working and I think that the price will be less affected by that Apologies to use of what was the first part of the question Um, it was do you think universities can continue to offer value for money while moving to more virtual models? and and then it was About the differential in price pricing. So I think you probably could yeah Yeah, I think I mean definitely from a value for money point of view. I think that's the whole point really Of of the presentation. So, um, I think that it's really not about Um us taking anything away. It's actually us adding to that university experience So I think that what the pandemic has done is allowed us to experiment in that in that virtual space And actually add that on in the same way that coat have as well if you think about that kind of coat products offer Um, it's allowed that they will go back to opening up their restaurants But also it gives their their customers the opportunity to to engage with their brand in a different way as well Okay, um, and then another question and and accept that you've said that you've seen in the long term Moving back to the traditional more traditional model. But one question we had is in in the meantime How do you build trust with students that online courses are as good as bricks and mortar classroom teaching? Um, I'm sort of I guess they're thinking of people who may be looking at starting in this Coming academic year and they've got to make that decision now Yeah, I mean, it's a really good point and I think um, I touched on Communication as part of the presentation. I think that's been a key part of it for for us at the University of East London as well Um, I think just really being clear about what that's going to look like Um, I think that um being clear about where the added value is that we're not just Moving the teaching online and leaving it there Um, think about what else? What else students expect from their university experience? I'm really trying to build that into that Intrim offer so an example would be social activities on campus Obviously students have access to the to the student union the bar To social activities and so on. So how can we replicate that in the virtual world whilst these restrictions are in place? um, and you know, we we've put on virtual movie nights virtual quizzes and so on so I think that It's just being really clear about what the entire package will look like rather than just you're now going to be learning online instead of in a lecture theater or in a classroom Sure Next question, um, do you feel the level of involvement of marketing departments across the uk he sector in the npd process Is as extensive as it could or should be? Um, yeah, another really good question. I think the answer is is that it depends on the institution. So um, I'm lucky enough to to work in an institution where Um, marketing does have a voice on on the executive board. Um, and I think that's a really important distinction between the impacts that we can have as marketing and communications teams, I think um having that influence having that that voice at the very top level Means that we can kind of make a change and make a positive change um, I think that in the time that I've worked in higher education, there has been a real shift in the professionalism in in marketing teams and I I think that um We certainly have the skills and the passion and the courage to be able to do it. So Um, as long as we've got that process within the institution to be able to have our voice heard Then I don't see why not Okay, thanks. Um, and then um a comment followed by a question saying that I'm not sure that they mean it's great to see it But I think it's a comparator for the person similar challenges at uel because of the pandemic And they're wondering how big a team have been involved in delivering student recruitment campaigns during this time from developing the messaging To executing them because usually they're a lot of traveling involved, isn't there to um international student recruitment Yes Could completely yeah, definitely. I think I mean the presentation I mentioned that those um those kind of physical Recruitment events have been taken away. Um, I think broadly they've been replaced by Recruitment events and I think um Actually similarly to the way that our courses have kind of transitioned and pivoted to to be an online I think recruitment activities have done the same. So um, in some ways it's given us an advantage and This I think is reflected in a lot of different ways that um, that the pandemic and and remote Remote access has has really moved things forward in that. Um, we've been able to access bigger audiences So if you think about this um, this webinar, for example, if this was a physical webinar Um, not as many people would have been able to attend it and it's the same with our our recruitment activities Our our open days have seen much bigger numbers We can quite easily attend international recruitment events without having to physically travel there and incur the cost and the Time restraints and results of that as well. So I think there's been some some real benefits of the of the pandemic It's interesting though because I do think there's this um, this kind of paradox of the situation In that it's afforded us this this kind of greater flexibility and greater reach But at the same time, I think that um, there's this digital fatigue and a lot of people Um after 12 months of sitting in their bedroom as I am at the moment in front of a screen Do you want to get out there and start to have those physical and in-person interactions? So I do think that we will shift back to to some level of in-person Interactions, and I think the students will want to go onto campus or go to physical events Um, it's just the virtual side of it will support that and I think that that kind of fits with the overall theme that that I've been looking at Yeah, um next question. Um, what about long-term effect on recruitment and enrollment of students who may not like to return to classroom? Um, are you seeing any of that? I mean Overall, you you're feeling is that people will want to go back to more traditional way But what of people who aren't able to or perhaps there may be travel restrictions? um, yeah, definitely Yeah, completely. I think in the short term obviously any kind of travel restrictions You know our reconsideration and I think that that's something that Universities are preparing for and and will adapt for and Because we've got that experience of the past 12 months will be quite easily able to to to manage I think in in the the longer term um, I do think it's unlikely that There will be as much Want that but I think where where there is that type of demand then there will We will respond and there will be online courses. So um, and you know, they're already a lot of Online options as well. I think pre-pandemic there are institutions that solely focus on that Institutions that started to build that into their models So I think that the important thing really is us as as a sector listening to Our customers our students needs and responding to that and that that's really what new product development is about Right, um, and I think we've got time for one final question Do you think that big events and they mentioned UCAS which for People who are not in that sector is the central admissions system that we have in the UK for university admissions And higher education recruitment fairs. Will they pay a large part moving forwards? Or do you think that's more events on campus at universities and more digital events like you just described before? Will they continue to play a greater role? Yeah, I do honestly think that the physical events will continue to play a big role but I think that it will be In combination with those virtual events. So Yeah, it will give people that still want to physically Visit a university or to go to one of those kind of big fairs the opportunity to do so But also then have that kind of wider audience that can't or you don't have the appetite to To be able to engage virtually because of the the various different Kind of infrastructures and practices that we've developed over the past 12 months Okay, excellent. Well, thank you very much David. That's brilliant. We've had some really good questions there from our viewers And just to just to recap as a reminder CIM is a qualifications body as well Um, and we've had to respond with our offering in response to the covid pandemic as well Both with our study centre partners who have adapted their teaching methods and and our assessments But we also have around 90 plus partner universities who we work in partnership with Mapping their marketing degrees so that their students can then go on if they wish to to gain exemption from the CIM qualifications later on And we've also developed things as well as this webinar express series We have our marketing club events which are now online to help students develop their skills Which is webinars and student newsletters and articles that you can register for Obviously the exemptions that we mentioned from qualifications new modules And we also have the annual pitch competition that you may want to look out for So you can find more information about that on the CIM's website And if you want help as a as a an HE institution in getting involved in working with CIM in that way We can put you in touch with our colleagues who can support that So that's all we have time for for our webinar today I'd like to say thanks to David for today's presentation and the CIM and higher and further education group for organising the event We do hope you found it interesting and worthwhile Our next webinar express is shifting perceptions of B2B It's on thursday the third of june at 1 p.m. And it is hosted by CIM northeast You'll find further details listed on the events page on the CIM website where you'll also be able to register for the session So on behalf of CIM thank you once again David for a really good presentation and thank you for joining us We hope you enjoy the rest of your day. Goodbye