 Good evening. Call to order the meeting of the Arlington Redevelopment Board for Monday, May 2nd, involving the second floor conference rooms and town hall annex recorded by ACMI. First on our agenda this evening is public hearing to reopen special permit docket number 3476 and 248 Mass Ave. So that public hearing is now open and it has the performance to step forward and introduce themselves. I'm Mark Newman. This is Joseph Arlington. Parking. Great. Thanks for coming back. Thank you. You can walk us through the changes here. Is that Parkway, ARTO? ARTO. And prisoner? Joseph. So essentially we're requesting to modify the special permit to the degree of the practical needs of the private. The primary changes are what differences would be the siding and the windows. And then we've also asked to add a roof deck and to take a door off of the right side exterior. So while the court project is the same, it's a modification to the exterior. We do have some discussion pages that George is going to be able to talk to in any details. Do you go through the background at this point? Or why we're here? Just go. We'll go right ahead. Before we get any further, I should tell you that because we are only three members tonight, you only need to name this vote from the three of us to pass. So I'll give you the opportunity to come back next week if you want. So you have to do that as a matter of procedure. If you don't want to continue, that's fine, too. I think we do want to try to continue for a lot of reasons. We've had a number of short delays, which is not the fault of anybody. But it makes sense for us to keep going here and try to get a unanimous decision. I think we're all fairly familiar with the history of the project. If you could just give us a thumbnail sketch and then get into some of the changes and the reasons why. Yeah, so we brought the project a year ago, a little over a year ago. And the project at that time, the full support of planning, it met the requirements, including the conditions and the standards for environmental design review. The project improves the properties around it. It was an old slung ranch house, pretty decrepit. And this project is three stories. And it fits the streetscape, as you can see on the plans. And we've discussed before. By the way, since we last met, we've actually had a lot of interaction with the neighbors regarding these changes. And they are not controversial. The building department has no objection. And I believe may have sent an email to that effect. Thank you. So I can also comment that Pam Hallett from the Housing Corporation of Wellington, who's immediately at a butter, also called and said that she had no objections with them. She liked it. The way it was, you know, the new plan. Thank you. That's great. Is it a new plan? Well, not a new plan, but just a new plan. The revised plan. The revised plan. How is it revised? There's no treaty. It's revised on the exterior. From the last time we... Well, let me... No, no, no. No, no, no. We were here some months ago. What was the difference between now and two months ago? Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. So why are we back... Aren't you bringing something as a result of our comments the last time? No, the reason we had comments last time, they wanted approval. And we decided after discussion that it made sense procedurally and legally to reopen special permits rather than just give a group tassel or verbal approval to the special permit to be reopened and amended. But the comments that we made last time were not addressed at this point? Well, perhaps they will be addressed. Oh, I see. I mean, I... So this is Queen Slade again. Well, that's... You know, I'm not an expert at the process. Okay. I thought we made enough comments that you'd come back with some of the reaction to those comments, but it sounds like that's not how it works. That is what we'd ask for. You're right. Well, let's let them get through it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry about that. We need very well to be addressing all of your comments. Okay. When she said new, I was trying to see it's not really new at the same moment. Yeah, it's the same project. We have changes to the exterior. Perhaps it's allegory and the discussion that Detail with Joe will, you know, address perhaps some or all of your comments. I can't be sure because I didn't really take great notes. I tried to have a good memory. It was a couple of months ago. Get it? Okay. So as you know, we originally applied for the special permit for the project, which had a modern look. Okay. The modern look was the Nietzsche Ha siding with trans and jeldon windows. When we freshened up our quote with Nietzsche Ha last December, and I've met with these folks now like three times, you know, the quote was considerably higher. In fact, the cost to do the Nietzsche Ha siding is prohibitive. And it was really a decision we took all the way back around Christmas time that we needed to make a change to this exterior. In taking that decision, we tried to consider, okay, what are we going to use that's different. The Nietzsche Ha product is really a one-of-a-kind product in my humble opinion. Okay, I'm not really an expert, but we've looked at other flat panel siding. And you know what, it just doesn't compare. This is a really, really strong product. Unfortunately, it's made in Japan. It's shipped to Macon, Georgia. The illumination panel is custom-painted. It's a 12-week lead time. So in addition to the cost, it became very difficult for a practical perspective to work with it. My builder puts a hammer through, you know, a couple of panels. You know, you have to wait. There's just no choice. So we took a look at what might make sense. We still wanted to use fiber cement. We, you know, examined all of the houses in the neighborhood. We tried to look at what would be in character with the neighborhood. You know, the houses adjacent are stucco, lap siding across the street. There are three shingled houses. And in the next array of houses, you know, a number of the same lap-sided houses. So we chose to go with the lap siding, which we took to be a little bit more of a traditional look. And consistent with that, we chose to use double-hungry house. In addition to that, Joe has got some technical details. We've added some classic danding. A couple of other small things. There's a page that's part of our key discussion pages that has some of that stuff. This may, in fact, include some of the things Andrew, you were referring to. And we think that the look is really terrific. And very much in the character of the neighborhood, the project itself hasn't really changed. It's really the exterior. In addition to the window and the siding, we're asking you to consider approving a small roof deck and the removal of the door on the inside. And I believe that in discussing these with all the neighbors, it was a little bit like having a discussion in a vacuum. They look at one, they look at the other. Frankly, they want to talk about other things. It's just not controversial. You know, they think it looks good and it's going to be really nice. Colors and trees were the other two topics. But should we pause for a second in case you have questions on some of these details? The big concerns we had in the previous two months were the addition of the roof deck, the change in the colors and I'll let Andy talk about that. Yeah, we'll discuss that in a minute. And the comparison between what exists what you're proposing and the initial plan. And I apologize, I don't have my prior plans with me from what I was supposed to have. Is there any I think that I'm concerned about is the impact of this roof deck? Who's going to have access to that? Is that for utility shielding? Is that for exclusive use to any one of the units? Well at the moment it would be available to everyone but we would consider having it be exclusive use for the third floor unit. The three units are floor through units or flats. So that would just be for use for the third floor unit. That's to me, it's a marketing decision that's months down the road and we haven't really thought much more about it. Okay. One of the other things that just came to mind was there was some discussion about adding utility services, compressors outside the building. That was one of the questions. That was one of the major concerns. I'm sorry, this was one of the points. The three condensers are going to be on the roof. We've taken bids from several contractors and had the discussion to confirm that. What is going to, where are they going to be placed and how are they going to be shielded? They're going to be placed adjacent to the staircase or the targets at the top. Right as they are on the original plan. Okay. That's one of the things that I was concerned about. The other topic that came up the Alzheimer's is strong that I think that you were interested in was I had said that one of the things that I might like to do is consider having a pad for a generator and bringing gas to it indicating that I wouldn't be putting it in. This would be something someone would come back for. Yeah. We're probably just not going to do that. That's another decision that we've made since we saw you last. Okay. I think that's the time. I may have more questions, but can. Well, I'm going to sort of read what I said last time. I realize that you're transitioning from a very contemporary building using the Jihad and case and windows to a more traditional building with the double-hung and sight. But you didn't take it it looks like a kind of kind of hybrid right now to me. And I had certain issues just the way it's detailed out. I was hoping you were going to address it, but I want to bring a couple issues right now. Right now you have more or less three equal segments representing every floor. Yes. And I took strong issue last time about how these windows break that band. I know that these windows here are right at the landing, the intermediate landing. That's why it breaks that band. I just don't didn't do it back then. They don't because it seems like a mistake. It looks like something we just put in there afterwards like okay, we put a steering and we just pull a window in and it doesn't matter what's outside. So to me that looks kind of like a not thought through with the more traditional area. I don't want to only make some suggestions. The only suggestions okay. Between the second and third floor that band there, I would not continue all around. I just get rid of it. Maybe stopping it right at this recess in the balcony here and just get rid of all that all along the back and all the way around until you get back to the front again which you get up to here and then you have something right here and so this whole thing sort of stops around so now it has a base, a middle and a little top. It looks to me scale wise. It brings a scale of building down a little more with or without the banding? Without the banding. It takes the scale? I think so, yes. And I would somehow try to figure out where to place this window so it doesn't interrupt this band. It looks it just bothers me that it looks like it's stuck in there. Looks like a rehab. It doesn't look like a new building. Interesting because I know you raised this the last time but I don't think I had the benefit of the detailed thought that you've been providing here. We did discuss this and said well, it really isn't another place to put a window other than in the landing. But maybe we were wrong about that. Let's get rid of it. Oh, no window. Is this a suggestion? No, I don't know. I mean, I'm just saying you don't necessarily need a window it's not by required by code or anything else. You don't need a window in the window in order to stay well. It's a nice thing to have. Yes it is. I mean, I just disagree. That's all. I mean, that's what this is about. I mean, I disagree. That's why I'd like to have the back part of the band stop at the window and the band itself, whatever the components of that band are, return onto that back part. And that stops it. I mean, we're not trying to be in the 19th century now here. So we are trying to use traditional elements in order to bring back and also I mean, I think if you get rid of the band the band is what sort of brings some scale to it. And if you take the band out then I think it looks bigger than rather than smaller, right? I mean and these are all these are just opinions. If I look at your old drawing presentation, okay? You had a base and you had a middle. You didn't add anything here to make it scale it down. I've got a color differently that's where the difference has come from. These are just suggestions. I'm not here to say these are my feelings that I'm trying to say I like to bring the scale down a little more the way you want to see each other. I don't think it's it seems like it's an afterthought as far as the way it looks. It doesn't look a brand new drawing to me, okay? If I were going up that stair and I had that window on the stair landing it would be vastly improved if you didn't have it. I mean if you didn't have it it would be a lot less of an experience going up the stair. I think it's a nice amenity and that's why I kept it. That's why I'm going to modify it. I would maybe see if you put a window above it. I never said you're rid of the window. It was just something that came out saying look, this thing here I like the fact that you have a big strong band on the bottom here and this could be a different color and I think you talked about that. I think we planned different colors that was nice. If this one moved up higher and this band goes away maybe stops here I'm not exactly sure how this docking band here turns the corner or does it not turn the corner? It looks like it stops here and it doesn't turn the corner so it looks like it's It's supposed to be integrated with it. That's part of it integrated with the band and when you do your section it's a little tough to make sure that it's going to work out. This thing here comes out and it doesn't quite line up I don't know The intent is that it lines up and continues around the corner. That's the intent. I don't know what this was on which side It doesn't seem like it's landing on either side of the elevation 45 of the corner. It's on the back. This is the this is the back. This light here? So that one's way back there and this band here is this band up here then? Yes. Right side elevation to the back. I'm just I'm just Could you just draw right on the other half what you're talking about Well here's the stairs here You probably want to put it up here somewhere just above this landing here Let's say this is the window right here and this goes across this way if you're standing here at the landing your head still I'm wondering if that would look off-putting with the way the smaller window is on the other side with that double window This one here you mean? No, the smaller window You've got an offset half window there and then that smaller window there will have an effect with that half visually on the actual appearance of the building And just holding that another half window here half here, half here Is that your idea? No it's not I leave that window right there which window? This one's fine because I'm talking about eliminating this band So it doesn't go through the band That's just You're going to have a band through the window if you want You have two windows above and one below I'm not here to do this I'm not trying to give I'm just giving you my opinion of what this has come up to It's okay I appreciate it I just want to make sure I get it Fair enough As far as the balcony in the back here I'm okay with the balcony in the back here I'm okay with it being public because it's in the back of the building It's not up front on the street So it's more of a reconstituted private space up there which I think is fine I'm just bringing that up I think that's a nice touch You're adding it, I have no problem with it I think it's a nice touch If it was up front When I looked at this I was trying to look to see if this corner turned and this is actually up It's very hard for me to tell there's a shot shadow on it but now that I've looked at it and the plan shows it but now it looks like there's a chunk So the scale this goes down like this and then it spans up and then this thing pops out a little bit more, right? Recess No but doesn't this pops out a little more, right? I'm just trying to get a little more dynamics interest to the front of the building In fact, you do try to scale it down, I like that I just think you just want to bring a little more excitement to the entryway So if maybe this just pops up a little bit this one here It's a little campy over that entryway that goes around both and they corner out Just pop it up just a little bit I'm not talking about I want to, no all entryway I like because you got some sort of steps You got steps coming up here? I like this to be covering the steps That's good Well that can't happen because there's a landing in front of that and the steps will be on the landing so we have a five foot turn around in front of that piece there He's just bringing a lift over the top I'm not talking about steps or anything else You said you wanted to cover the steps I'm just bringing it just above with the EVE Yeah okay I'm just looking for a little more excitement and dynamics I'm not worried about his setback I thought trim and canopy stuff is excluded from setbacks To a certain point Correct Yeah It might be possible I'm not opposing that Something you get out of my sentiment You get a special permit here anyways You're not pulling a straight permit here Okay I'm not trying to No I like the suggestions I kept it similar to what we had up here Whatever the overhang is here that's two feet, it's the same detail I'm just looking at it sideways it looks like because now you have something coming out It has a little dynamic elevation, it brings a little excitement And the comment last time was something that could just strengthen the front entrance a little bit That is a change from before This is what he put in there to try to do that I like that I just want to I mean what I looked at the building before it looked sexy and it looked nice I understand economics and in fact it doesn't make sense That's okay But I don't want to just settle for something that's you know I prefer to have it take some minor steps and just make it a little more Look we like it too and believe it or not that's on like 30 or 35% of the residential homes in Japan which is a huge number But here in the United States it's almost all commercial and the residential that they do is really a lot of residences 17 White Street, 126 Child those are 8 unit buildings maybe even 9 I think the business plan for Nijihara Nijihara in the U.S. market is meant to go on a commercial site and it's meant to go against the luka bonds and aluminum panels and stuff like that Nijihara's what 18 bucks a square foot Well in fact to get it installed now you're looking at 22 We had an original quote good for 15 days alright that changed Well the last time I looked at it it was around 18 bucks a square foot yeah it's changed I know the stuff hardy siding is what you know it's you got me I don't know I just know it's a lot less okay that's fine we're not here to talk about that those are the two sort of issues I have right now Andy I think it's an interesting comment you kind of touched on the materiality I actually don't mind the horizontal I think in a way it's it's strong it comes right off of 251 Mass Am across the street really just it's right there I thought about it a lot I went through this there's something unusual about the materiality you had before and I know you're in the budget and so forth is there something you can do maybe it's in the hardy plank it's going to be allura it's the same thing allura category not real wood but natural wood look and get the idea that you have already of the layers maybe one layer is painted and then the other layers are wood real wood not real wood but fake wood looking good stuff a natural thing just looking around here's a project somewhere in the area here's another one this is not natural wood it might not be but it might be a related thing this is that same company if you could get something that pushed it up a little bit because you're not doing a traditional building you're doing a kind of woodwork as we said something that will make it a little more interesting and appealing to this is way out there Andrew that material well I'm just reacting we're all friends here this is way out there he's talking about the material not the detailing maybe I should clarify just talking about the materiality design windows anything in there at all just imagine that this material here is a natural looking plank it's a fake material but it's got something different than just paint I know that these companies make an artificial looking wood product that's used a lot and it's interesting and it's a little different than what you're getting here if you put this over the edge a little bit to make it a newer look of what you're doing well it's just scary I mean I'm just going to give you my honest reaction I will look at it and you're right I can't remember which brochure no you're right I've been through all these brochures and there are some products like you're talking about I have no idea what they cause chances are it's not going to be terribly dissimilar for this it will be because it won't be a painted wall no no no I mean the cost it's the cost that has driven the decision no I get it push me to try to go safe look at your budget these days in plank I think you should look at that and I'm going to suggest that that gets reviewed and brought back to the planning board I don't see anything wrong with the rest of the special permit if I promise I'll look at it will you consider my plan tonight and approve it and consider approving it because I only have what I have here tonight yeah I would if we put it as a condition then review several options for the planking and the coloration and that it's either material and or you present what your color idea is so we can see it in a way other than like that you start with the color idea that you're proposing and you say okay we could use hardy product X that is wood like maybe you already have something I'm just doing a little showing setting up the show and tell me try something that has a little more of a natural look and it would really change the way this building looks you might even just use it on one floor will I need to go back to the neighbors again maybe I don't know that's my opinion about this building you did sell us on something that's a little bit different and I'd like within the context of what you proposed if you could look at other materials that would be no I promise I'll look at it and on that basis I would be willing to say okay and have a review by the director and if you see one send it I'm going right out now I'm meeting I'll pick up my check from now setting what we do there is add some additional condition 5 applicant to review natural options for approval by the director yeah that's still in there well we already had it the plan has changed it's already in there that isn't a meteor it's actually already in there given that that's the case on this particular I'd like a little more footage I like that if you also look at this in detail the exposure is the same right now do you maybe change it up a little bit maybe the base has a tighter exposure of 4 inch and above maybe an 8 inch or something like that just to play around we could do that I think I'd like to see that too and that's something that you could look at and work with Jenny on without having to come back in front of us necessarily something I'm saying that's not good or you don't do or what it just scares me I'm going to look at this stuff right away I think these are minor changes I don't think these are I get it I'm not really on board calling this a hybrid because I think that you know it's like any house I would design or any addition that I do is that everybody wants a traditional look so you use the traditional elements but they want that changes have to do with we want to live a modern lifestyle and that's both interior and outside they want everything to be you want it to look like a bunch of little rooms on the outside but it's all open up inside and outside is the cornices and the corner boards and the traditional casings around the windows you take these pieces and you put them together the four inch increments of siding cable and so I think that every element that's on there is a more traditional kind of basis of of trim and field and siding now doing something like that trying to make it acknowledging that it's a hybrid I'm not sure where I'd go along with that but also changing up the siding increment is that's something that's pretty easy to do and it will look I've resisted it to be honest because I see other people doing that and it's kind of that's what you do if you want to have something that's a little bit more modern but to still use the traditional elements I can certainly do it and I'm happy to do it for you guys to look at and you pay him that's that's what I mean that's what I mean and we're very similar I think we think it is a hybrid we want to take up the next step make it a little more exciting and I think we should say take a little look at this when I ask you to take a lot of expensive changes when I ask you to go back to different siding which is actually the work that we have presented here just detail it a little bit differently but it gives it a little more pop that's all we're asking for and I'm willing to I'm willing to both say keep on going I don't want to slow you down I know we had a snow day that threw you off and that's you know it's an act of nature you know there's nothing to do about it I'm not here I couldn't go to April because we didn't have time to advertise so I feel for you I understand the issues and I'm not here and so you know we'd like you to keep going when I got this package I went by just like over the weekend I noticed you had the foundation and you got it all framed up I mean you're going about 80% of the first floor but that's as far as I can go without having this I don't really do anymore I think we've kind of hatched things out I do want to open up to public comment if anybody has anything to say in support of questions for the performance before we move to a vote is there's a public hearing if there's anyone in the audience who would like to speak I just my name's Donald Gary and I wanted to raise you on an island town and I think it's a great project and I support it wholeheartedly he's a shield you're dressed oh I'm not a resident okay do you want to talk about the tree I know you're going to go I do want to talk about the tree and the landscaping in front that was one of the concerns that I have I think what we had was a nice street skateboard in every way and I do want to see what that looks like well I think we can still do it this was actually a suggestion of a board member a little package a second page it's got a revised look at um the tree that Mark found was a what's it called Cleveland Peak Cleveland Park that's along the walkway and the other tree is a cherry tree you know the cherry is on the back cherry tree was supposed to be a three inch tree is it not it's a two inch tree two inch caliper the original permit is a three inch caliper tree oh I happen to do three it's probably the bad eyesight it's freaking the two but we're working with the arborist okay we have a restriction in the front okay it's three feet by twenty one and the major issue with the other trees that were suggested which was a catch saw too far you can sure chew up the sidewalk it will do it fast and the sidewalk is on both sides so we were trying to find something that could function as a street tree and allow for passage in both directions he kind of interesting season to season we came up with this one here we like it a lot I'll just pass these around that's flowering and green okay this is in the winter it would look like that and in the fall it turns okay really nicely and then this last picture I just want to share with you because these trees do serve well in constricted areas like this so this is an example of the willingness to plant this tree do I have that? I don't know it looks like Paris let's go I think we need a site visit here but we actually examine about twenty different trees to try to find something that fits the small space it's a Cleveland pear Cleveland pear it's not a fruiting tree no one of the trees that was recommended actually does that because it gets sticky it's not a good urban tree no but this way people will be able to walk by and it's not going to three years from now have a root structure no I think you're probably going to have a root structure and not pushing up the site that's very important okay anything else? nothing so that's my emotion well yeah I think following the letter that was provided to you which outlines each one of the modifications I think you should include those in your vote and then any direction that you want to give to my office is to condition for follow up yes I'm not at the original plans so I'd like to put the condition in there that they bring color elevations to review with the plans department that's in there is special condition for the originals and that you consider a natural looking material as well as paint in your investigation to show us to show the planning department and then they are authorized by us to make the decision I'll make myself available to show you I also had the window too the window I'm not saying one way these are the windows in the stairwell yes I consider the windows in the stairwell the detailing of the windows in the stairwell in the impact banding or no banding I'll write this down we'll have a minute I know but we got to should I take a shot I'm kind of writing one bigger move to approve the special permit for 248 masks for conditions conditions as stated in the original special permit conditions as stated in the original special permit actually back up move to modify the special permit granted whatever date number 3476 regarding 248 masks per plans dated granted February 23rd, 2015 as amended for plans submitted dated March 30th, 2016 April 4th, 2016 yeah the most recent thing is April 4th, yes in hand, it was April 4th are we writing this now? yes, apparently I have Laura's the condition that describes the bringing of the materials which is that number 4 it's in there, color palette, sample building it's very old college, shall be submitted for approval by the director for consistency of the plans and condition for in addition to not natural material that would like material to be considered in your palette to be reviewed with the planning department no second? all in favor? aye are you going to vote? enough? so we can continue yeah, you can move on you can continue staff will get on writing that up this is Gil Garry the work of Jenny talking about any suggestions here as far as building materials thank you thank you I know what you're going to do I don't know sorry to delay you so long treasure it is it going to be bundled right? yes make sure your bylaws plan to get your chairs to read the counterfeits good luck anyways, yeah thank you alright that's a rush you out of here moving on Susan Stamps is here to treat me regarding what I was going to say Susan, I want to introduce yourself for people watching at home yeah I'm Susan Stamps I'm the city committee and I was hoping we might get your vote of support for Article 22 of the two preservation bylaw the selection would be unanimously approved it the last week I got the unanimous support of the conservation commission and the open schools committee and the Arlington Land Trust has endorsed it essentially the bylaw regulates removal of trees, mature trees on private property during major development major development being demolition building a new house or building and putting an addition on which adds 50% or more to the footprint of the structure so it doesn't impact a homeowner's right to go out and cut a tree down in their backyard there's nothing to do with that just major development the trees, which are called protected trees in the bylaw that are covered by this bylaw are defined as healthy trees which are 10 inches or more DBH diameter of breast height so it's called diameter, 10 inches in diameter which is a pretty good size tree personally I wanted to make them smaller in some towns do have smaller ones but that's not editorializing anyway 10 inch DBH healthy tree not at imminent risk of disease in fact infestation located in the setback this is the other key thing is that this is just a major development and we're only talking about mature trees in the setback so this is only in the residential it's commercial as well also commercial as well now boards such as the redevelopment board and the conservation commission which have jurisdiction over a project which this tree would apply to has the ability to waive the requirements of this tree bylaw so we don't have to have a clash of you guys go first so for example with the conservation commission they said well what do we do if half of it is under a jurisdiction because it's in the wetland and the other half isn't what would they do first go to the conservation commission get all their conditions and then as to the rest of the property it would be under this bylaw I think when this comes to residential development this is an excellent proposal I'm looking at the pictures that you've provided and I think I think a lot of the discussion around some of the residential changes we've seen in town some of the building that we've seen in town solves it's not a total fix but it's not a bandaid fix either I think it is well thought out and the way that keeping some of this streetscape landscaping in place really keeps our streets looking like the kind of neighborhoods people are used to and helps to offset the size of some of the development that's done when you keep the green in there you keep the landscaping you keep these trees that are decades old you have that leafy welcoming neighborhood feel and I think it's great and I'm also glad that we have control over it as far as commercial projects because you don't need to take trees out and move them out of the sidewalk as opposed to actually on the property so I think I would support this well I do unfortunately have to disabuse you of some of the wonderfulness that you think this bylaw represents I wish I could say that this bylaw means that the chore trees and the setback will remain there but that's not what it means all it means is we don't feel that we can tell the owners to do that sometimes they need to take trees down for whatever reason the roots are too close to the foundation or they need to get the equipment in or something like that so what it says is that to the extent that they are going to remove any trees in the setback they have to mitigate that removal by either replacing a tree replace a removed tree with a tree which is caliber somewhere on the property or they have to pay $500 into the trees please fund and then that's for each tree and then the town is tasked under this bylaw to use that money to replace the tree preferably in the vicinity of where it was so let me ask you this we can kind of sync up my understanding of what you're proposing here your picture is from Hillstale Road in 2012 and 2015 would that have required builders to put trees in on this retaining wall top of it it would have required builders to mitigate the removal of those trees by either replacing those trees somewhere on the property or by paying $500 per tree into the tree fund and that would not have prevented them from taking the trees I guess what I'm asking is mitigating that replacing those trees would have meant some sort of trees gain along this we placed the trees anywhere in the property the idea is we felt that the best we could do was to look at the tree canopy as a whole for the town and that at least this will to a great extent reduce the loss the net loss of tree canopy in town unfortunately I understand I'm just coming at it from a different perspective we did all those pictures people were sending us all those pictures early in the process and we were like oh this is great we can prevent the clear cutting well and we came to realize we really can't that's the unfortunate truth of it but we can I guess you can't force but you can encourage the replacement of a lot of these trees that are cut down and that requirement I think will kind of get to what I was hoping the by-laws in the long term looking at Appleton Street they had to replace trees there that would be a much more inviting I don't know something that's really important about this by-law and maybe the most important thing about the by-law is that for the first time that I know of in Arlington it brings the preservation of trees on private property into the discussion when everybody is talking about a development, a major development and even though the by-law doesn't prevent the clear cutting it's on the developer's radar screens now they're thinking oh I can't just come in and take all those trees out without having an answer for it what do I really need to do because I'd really rather not have to pay all this money into the trees is it $5 per tree what's the enforcement so the tree warden is going to go out there their site plan with the trees drawn on it by the surveyor they're going to show it to the tree warden the tree warden is going to go out and look at the property and make sure that it's representative of what's on the property and then it's going to check on the property now and then do a final check and then they're fine because they don't do what they're supposed to do I am mindful that both Andy and Ken may have some comments I know we have another person that would like to speak to us tonight and we are getting up against town meeting so I apologize for talking so long on that Ken? I'm just it's only trees on the setbacks on the residential commercial as well? no no, I'm saying it's the same commercial with the residents for now and if they choose to take the tree down they have to replace it with a 2.5 inch caliber so let's say they have four trees there, they're all 10 inch caliber trees they have to replace four trees that are 2.5 inches I'm afraid so I'm not trying to win you right or wrong or pay $2,000 correct as a fee and then do any tree planting at all yes right, that's right and you know and the sad fact is well I'm not going to say it's a sad fact but the fact is that I think a lot of developers will don't just clear cut and pay but at least they'll pay that the tree canopy can be replaced part of town the only thing I have is generally when people submit permits for an addition or a renovation they don't include a landscaping plan all they do include is a site plan which just shows the property line and then the house, they don't show trees, they don't show that so I don't know how that could be enforced until now so part of this is a requirement for any major thing that you have to submit a landscaping plan this is going in parallel with the building permit process or the demolition permit process but we're saying that we had a very complicated fancy bylaw that was our first draft and then we had to go redo the whole thing the builders hated it the selectmen hated it we came up with something a lot smaller and one of the things we had before was that a certified arborist had to do a plan of the property and then do a letter explaining what was going to happen with each tree and the setback what we ended up with was submit the site plan that they have to do for the building permit have the surveyor when they're doing surveying the property also put the trees up to 10 inch dbh or more on the 10 inch or more in the setback now this is going to be signed by a licensed surveyor so we don't expect that they're going to not put trees on if they're there and so it's that very same document that they submit to the building department where they're building permit application that's going to go to the tree ward and take a look at so this amendment adds that extra requirement in the building permit process it's not part of the building permit the process goes alongside but there is something that says there will be no site work on the property until you get to sign off with the tree ward which has a survey and so they can look at how this might work the fact always requires them I support this alright I guess we should move to support article 22 I move to support article 22 pre-preservation I'll second it all in favor thank you other business Elizabeth Pyle has asked to come and discuss her proposed substitute amendment for name and address please Elizabeth Pyle 66 and I wanted to talk with you thanks so much for having me come here I've been working on some of the residential zoning changes and I'd like very much to continue working with you going forward I understand that you recommended no action on articles 8, 9 and 10 and I was concerned about article 10 because of the public safety issue involved and I was at the precinct meetings where I heard Mr. Bunnell and others talk about that the reason for the 15% slope maximum was the public safety issue and how the cars backing out of the driveway couldn't see the pedestrians and the mom with two small children and this really speaks to me and so I am bringing it up again as a substitute motion which will be heard on Wednesday and I was hoping that you guys wouldn't speak against it since it was your article initially and it seems different than the other residential zoning matters because of the public safety issue involved and if it was a public safety issue two weeks ago it's still a public safety issue today and I would just feel so awful if a house was built that had a greater than 15% slope on the driveway and in the next year and somewhere down the line that kid was her killed and I felt like we should that if I'm going to get up and make a substitute motion on it I just don't want you guys to get up and say please everybody vote against this because you have such weight that I think that that will carry the day and we have a real chance here to revive this and address the public safety concern Ken I don't have any comment on this I think I would say there yes that's fine great thanks so much I put it on the chairs is there a Laura I heard you say at a piece of meeting that there was an engineering report about the 15% slope and why that grade was chosen I just have not written reports I do not it was a it was a comment those discussions okay great thanks very much and I just had a question about it too because this is your article it's 15% up or down right you're right that's above the element commercial allows I think they are 10 to 12% okay great you know and garages it is allowed by special permit that was a little addition because of the up more than the down because sometimes you have a house that's up high off the street I'm less considerable to say how did they get up to those strategies it's amazing thank you so much see you some more thank you other new business we got a letter from some folks in town who are interested potentially in property at 93 Broadway Jenny do you want to go into that I had the opportunity to meet with people from springboard schools they are currently or learn to grow they are currently housed at the good school and as you may know the good school is likely to be renovated and put back turned back into a school yes and that is creating a constraint on that current tenant such that they need to find a new space for their facility and they need to find it and leave that space at the school within a year so they've been and they also want to stay in East Arlington given their clientele so that's led them to look at this potential opportunity at 93 Broadway which is currently one large parcel that has a small building on it with a lot of parking of cars parked in the lot this is a cross room don't condone this I'm sorry I don't remember the side street now what was the Broadway this is on Broadway but there's a side street it's not by the way Donner it's further down it's a cross from the Dunkin Donuts so there's the same side of Broadway there's one that's adjacent to what was the Donner and is now the food pantry and there's one further down and they actually don't reference what that side street is called thank you so there you go the side street so they are looking at they're in the process of thinking about acquiring that property which would mean they'd have to basically build a brand new facility in a set time frame so they came to me to just understand what is the process and roughly when they should come in to present for a special permit which would involve a lot including a driveway curb cut completely different and restructured lot also a subdivision of the lot in all likelihood where they would take 6000 square feet and sell it so a lot of potential conditions and then of course the design of the structure so I walked them through the process I suggested that they put together a letter of introduction just to kind of let you know about this and definitely let you know about the importance of the process and why it's important to have that program are they in the process of purchasing the land? they are in the process of purchasing the land and the property the property with you telling me six to eight months I told them that in all likelihood we could potentially start the review on June 6 depending upon when they let us know that they're ready for a special permit hearing because we need time for advertising and that that would just be the beginning of the special permit process which could likely take months depending upon what they present to the board and any conditions that need to be worked out during that process as well as the summer months and your meeting schedule so I let them know that it depends I did not commit to a specific timeframe that you would say yes or no no but I think things are already running through my mind about what we might be able to do with this knowing that it's now going to be active so this was really just an introduction to it and it sounds like a good use any other business there are minutes but I think you're going to have to postpone those before we go I want to thank the board the master plan implementation committee and Jenny and Laura and everyone has been involved in the process for the mixed use of warrant articles and all their work that went into that which were passed overwhelmingly at town meeting excellent work and everybody who was involved deserves our gratitude congratulations thank you that's excellent alright with that we'll entertain a motion to adjourn and reconvene at town meeting motion to adjourn second all in favor