 Welcome back, it's time for our first hot topic and we have been joined by Reverend John Hayab, who is the chairman of Canada State. I want to take a look at the situation unfolding with regards to the coup in Niger, President Nubu, Ekoaz, and the dilemma as the deadline has expired on Sunday. Good morning, Reverend. Good morning. Good morning. Can you hear me? Yes. So, Reverend, let's first of all take your views on this coup. What do you make of it? First, I would say it is sad, it is unfortunate that we were back to the era of coup d'etat, though in the Ekoaz region, this is not the first. In the last few years, we've had that in Ekoaz and others. Since coup started in 1963, actually in Pobu, we've been having one coup or the other within the Ekoaz region and actually in other parts of Africa. As we know what everybody, anybody or any right-thinking person is to clap for, it's not what anybody should support, it's not what anybody should speak favourable about. But it has happened. Unfortunately, the democratic institutions have also not helped matters. They have not helped to make people or convince people that really we need to all reiterate coup. We need to say no to coup, because when you look at what is happening in Niger, since the coup, the people are celebrating as if they have won a World Cup. And you know that this is actually the attitude of every country where there's a coup. People will celebrate as if they have written relief, not knowing that after a few months they will go back to a terrible situation. But this is the situation when you have poor governance, when you have bad process of certain election leaders, coup d'etat will come. And when it comes, people will ignorantly support it and think that it is something good because they are angry with the system, they are angry with the way things are going on. Niger, we thought, would not have anything to go back because there are two key things that I have actually reflected about. Number one, if you look at Niger, the last president of Nigeria or the immediate past president of Nigeria had a lot to do with Niger during his tenure. He actually brought about so many projects that will connect Niger and Niger. Some Nigerians can even say by the side that look, Niger and Niger. And unfortunately, when he just left power, then the coup, the dreamtas just came over and took over power. So what is that? And what is that telling us? Then Tinebu is coming angry that we're supposed not to go back to the era of coup d'etat and is might be making some pronouncement that also has its own implication. So this is the challenge we are facing at the moment. Alright, so now the deadline given to them to reinstate Mohammed Bazoum expired yesterday. What should be the next? War, silence or dialogue? I think from the onset, I didn't actually clap for the actions or the statements or the direction that Eko was and her chair were actually taking because, you see, we have to be honest with ourselves about Niger. Niger's chair bound with almost about seven states of Nigeria. If you go to war with Niger, just get ready that those seven states will have an influx of refugees. So who are you fighting with? It's like Nigeria or Benin saying that they want to fight Nigeria but they want to fight Idyroko. And Benin Republic nobody knows that a large number of those who are Idyroko have connect to do with Benin. So how do you fight that? Same thing if Nigeria want to go and fight, they may say, no, we want to go after the junta. How can you go after the junta without touching on civilians, without affecting the general populace? So I would subscribe that dialogue would have been the most important thing because if we dialogue with them, we'll be able to have better understanding and then just give them a space that won't be long for them to give way and let us restore democratic institutions. But for us to say that we want to go after them, we want to send our military to do that. How have we done with Aboko Haram around? How have we done with the bandit that have been commenting on us? What have we done with Ipob? What have we done with other people that have been creating unnecessary security tension in Nigeria? We couldn't solve that problem and we think we want to go and get rid of junta elsewhere. Well, in our country people are even grumbling, people are complaining. I felt that it was just a show of force that has no meaning. The government wouldn't have even said that it was possible because if now they do not go after them after the 70s ultimatum, they will now begin to be seen as the weak echoers. So they just went to say what they supposed not to say in the process. I don't know. Does that tell us that a tinobu presidency or a tinobu chair of echoers is going to produce next to no results? Can we judge his... Well, we may not say next to no results. We don't know what they have or what they want to do. But we simply as Nigerians will advise that any action that needs to be taken, certain things must be put into consideration. Well, do you see a West African echoers, any kind of intervention from echoers having any kind of bite? Considering... Reverend. Okay, sadly we seem to be having audio disconnection. Hello Reverend, can you hear us? Okay, we may need to... I was going to ask if, you know, because echoers over the years is not being seen as a weak organization, including the AU. You know, including the AU. And so one begins to wonder how much bite, how much influence, how much authority does echoers carry these days with an intervention from echoers, mean anything to the coupists? A lot of people who are talking about this issue are saying the legitimacy of the people who constitute the echoers community, that the leaders of the echoers community is in question. So how can someone whose integrity, whose legitimacy is questioned, be the person to tell another person that what you're doing is wrong? Okay, sorry to take words from your mouth, but I hear that Reverend Haya, the connectivity is back. Hello Reverend, can you hear us now? Yes, I can hear you. The second part of it is not just the legitimacy of echoers' leaders. The second part of it is that how far have echoers' leaders really proved to give the people their government good governance. Since there is bad governance in virtually all the echoers' countries, you see, they have tempted the twinters to now come and tell the people that they have something better to offer. I have said this several times and I want to repeat here, that when a democratic elected government celebrates democratic success as construction of roads, then there is a problem. When a democratic elected president celebrates the success of democracy as building houses, then something is wrong, because even junters can build houses, even junters can construct roads. So what separates a democratic leadership and military dictatorship is simply the freedom. Are Africans free? Are West African people free? Are they free with their leaders? Do we have faith in them? Can we truly exercise our right as citizens? So they have failed in this. So when others challenge them about legitimacy, then people also look at them that what makes democracy a true government is not even there. It's all freedom. So people are actually slaves in their country and they know very well that these civilians were their friends yesterday where their name was two days ago and just because they became senators or they became federal representatives or they become governors or they become prime ministers then. And suddenly they became around so that he has the might, he has the power to challenge them and stop them. People would clap for him. So I think our leaders in Echo was more sit-off, but he is sure that there is good governance. Two, he is sure that it is democracy we are practicing, not some kind of autocratic governance, sitting on people's necks and even making mockery of the pens people are going through. That is why dictators or junters are having their way back to governance. And truly speaking, if we don't take steps to correct this, we don't belong in more other countries we're talking about. All right. Well, there was a threat of military intervention and even the president, our president had sought approval from the Senate, which was turned down. Earlier in the week, Burkina Faso, the military junters in Malia and Burkina Faso had said that any sort of intervention from Echo would be seen as a declaration of war. This is not looking good for the region. Our senators were showing maturity and not giving in to that cheap request. And rejecting the request. Connectivity this morning? Hello, Reverend. Burkina Faso, the junters in Burkina Faso and Mali have said, they are aligning with the Niger. And they are saying any form of military intervention, anything that is not acceptable to Niger, is not acceptable to them. My worry is, like my people say, when a small child insults you in the early morning, look behind an adult maybe there that may be pushing him. So who is this adult behind Mali, Burkina Faso, Niger and all that? Because these people, these countries, none of them is as big as Lagos state. The population in Lagos is more than some of these countries that are making mouth, as we say in Nigeria, with Nigeria. We still are a big brother in terms of might, in terms of money, in terms of everything. But they can talk this way. That means there is someone somewhere who is putting the flame, putting the fire and making sure that they can talk like this with confidence. And if those people are still Western powers, then it is just moving from fry pan to fire. So if Nigerians, or not Nigerians, now Africans are looking for a way to break away from this colonialism. Are they breaking away totally from colonialism or they just want a new slave master? That's what I'm asking myself. And I'm worried about that. Can they stand on their own and do what they're doing? Now, Niger that we're talking about, they're chanting on the streets and saying, long live Putin. So they're not having meetings in Russia. So instead of... I mean, we're in Russian flag. Yes, in Nigeria. So they're leaving France for Russia. They're leaving France for China. They're leaving France for Germany. Well, I think they are saying that Russia is treating them with respect, unlike France. And then the question is, for how long is this going to go on, as you have said. But again, no money is an island, right? And it's the failure of AU and AQAS as giving birth and giving room for these kind of alliances that they are craving for and accepting. Because if AQAS and AU, you remember during Maman Gaddafi, one of the things he sought to establish was a united African front. He wanted Africa to unite against the West. Unfortunately, he was betrayed even by someone who... Well, I was watching the documentary. Hello. Yeah, can you hear me now? Yeah, can you hear me now? Yeah, I actually enjoyed the line of discussion you were having. I think we must acknowledge the fact that there is a solidarity by all the junta presently in West Africa. So if we think that they are separate countries, the solidarity from other countries with Niger junta. So let's be careful because we'll start a war or not finish. We may be thinking that those countries are small, but you see there's power in unity. The other countries that we are thinking that maybe with us, there are people also angry with their leaders. And when this war starts, they may have some factions among the military that will not go with them. So it's something that we cannot guarantee success. And that's why we have a proposition that our leaders must be careful and toy the part of that one. Number two, you talked about the presence of Russia and China. Russia is already having a challenge in this war. So she's looking for partners, she's looking for allies, she's looking for people who are so solidarity with us. So ordinarily, Russia will go with them. Russia will support them because Russia, if you look at Putin's governance altogether has been more of military might. So since they are made to junta, he would have identified with them that he would identify with some democratic people that tomorrow I want to sincerely appeal that we must find a better approach by using dialogue to find solution. And then go back to the drawing board and ask ourselves, what have we been doing wrong that is now attracting and bringing back junta that they are studying? Who did that? Well, we address those and then we will stop anything in the future. But I don't see any meaningful success at the moment. Even if those countries are small, they are united, the junta are together and they are threatening. If you just disgrace us and humiliate us in the face of that. Is it looking like Niger is becoming like the greatest challenge for Echoers yet? Since we've seen this wave of coups, I mean we've seen it in Burkina Faso, Mali, Sudan, Chad. But here we are at this point where it does seem as if this Niger coup has become a major challenge for Echoers. Oh, why the interest? There's so much interest in Niger. It's not perfect. Number one in Nigeria is actually Nigeria. Nigeria is Nigeria. To be honest with ourselves, Nigeria is just like a father and a son. A large number of Nigerian states have many of their civilians in Nigeria. And the large people in Nigeria have their civilians in Nigeria. I keep repeating here that Niger is a country with about 7 states in Nigeria. Go to that state and take a total statistics of people who are living in Nigeria. You'll find that there are a large number of people from those states. So there are lots of things we share in common. Religion, agriculture, and many things culture we share in common. Sometimes what we do in Nigeria and people used to cry and say people have brought outside Nigeria to come on board. This is the picture. Let's be honest to ourselves and stop repeating. Now you are fighting people who think they are fighting their civilians. People who think you are fighting their heirs, neighbors, and allies. See, the first people that would betray the war would be Nigerians. Nigerians from those who have affinity, who have attachment with the jack, will betray the war. So our government must not be blind and must not assume all is worth. It is not well. So Niger has to come in because Niger is that close. The affinity between Nigeria and the jack is too close compared to other countries. Go and check the map and you will see no other country has such large number of boundary connect like Niger and Nigeria. So, lots of things we have in common. We may not have, why did the previous leaders continue to bring in some kind of economic development with Niger? Because they have just attachment connected with them. So now that Niger is having a problem, I am happy that at least the government have done something right by sending the message to the former chief of staff to go and mediate. We just hope that such engagement and conversation could eventually give us solutions. But also to know the situation where we think that they must come back to democracy right now, right now, right now, as we are going to go to war with them. People are celebrating that of a trend of If you bring back the governor or the president that was coupled, is he going to immediately restore sanity, restore confidence? No, so you have a better way of discussing it. And then politicians must learn from this that what do we do to win the confidence, the trust of the people that we are governing? Because the people have the power. You may have been given the budget, but the power still belongs to the people. Okay, Reverend John Hayab, I would like to thank you for coming on the show this morning. Your thoughts are very coincides and educating. So we do hope that Nigeria or Africa will emerge better out of these conflicts and not plunge ourselves into more conflicts than we already are. Thank you so much for your time on the show this morning. Thank you too for having me. That was Reverend Joseph John Hayab, Chairman Khan Kaduna State talking with us. We'll take a short break and when we return we take on another topic still related to this. Stay with us.