 All right, so we have with us the capital planning committee and I'll turn it over to his chair to make the introductions for his team. Hi, I'm Chris Moore. I'm a chair of the capital planning committee and we have a slide for the introduction. So we'll do it that way. And my co-chair is going to start off with presentation and then we'll switch among the different member. Okay, so we have the presentation up. Again, the vice chair on the opening act tonight. I'm going to start up with the in progress picture of our renovation of the high school. It's certainly a capital investment, although it is not part of the capital plan to make them projects, but still paying for this. This, this new asset decks and constraints, town, finance. So we wanted to put that up there. It's the favorite example of a project happening right. Uh, Tara next slide please. Okay, here we have nice agenda. We're asking you to do a little bit on who we are and what we do on this many. What capital is an overview of the major issue that we, uh, this year and that we think will be with us for a while. Um, what the capital plan achieved recently or currently achieving and how it fits into our town budget. Then we'll have to detail on the main sources of funds and our recommended uses by depart. Finally, some specifics on prior borrowing, reappropriations, and then the recommended vote. Next slide please. Uh, tonight we're asking you to vote payroll action on our recommended, uh, budget for FY 25. Uh, and the reappropriation of BBC borrowed funds. And also to, uh, endorse the five year plan covered by 25 29. Next slide please. Okay, this slide is our membership. Um, and how each of us can get capital planning. There's town, um, citizens who are appointed by the moderator. There's, uh, vice chair, Gerald, uh, Darrell hammer from, uh. You're Harvard from income. Sorry, uh, I know, I know. All in MC for that for short, and then we have 4, 10 officials on the committee. So, um, just to do the direction right now and get Chris. More Yontar Alex McGee, the deputy manager finance director. Uh, Joe bar, remember? You know, Cody Tom controller. I've been brought a citizen was a Ferris the, um, APS, assistant director finance. And go Solomon, and MC, Harvard. We're missing, uh, Julie wayman is our treasure. She can't be with us tonight. Yeah, and also, um, John, yeah, don't. All right, next slide. All right, so, as you do, we divide up our, uh, tasks into committees or subcommittees. So, you'll see how we have 4 standing committees and we divide up the 11 members across them as shown here. So, public works, recreation, administration, finance, safety. You'll meet with a few of these departments every, um, uh, every fall to go through all the requests. And then we, uh, we present them to our, to our full committee and discuss them. Next slide please. Okay, and then, just want to go a little bit into why we do our capital planning approach. Um, these are for long term assets. Often their costly asset, we have to borrow pay for. So, therefore, need to self naturally to long term planning and in doing a plan for many years, we try to help reduce uncertainty. Also try to weigh the different priorities from all different stakeholders in order to keep in our budget. And having this dedicated group that we hope. Helps to reassure our citizens and our community members. And, so our process, I think that you've all seen this before, because there may be 1 or 2 new members, but here's a refresher. We look at the towns year by year, I did revenue. And we allocate 5% for capital, um, finishers, and this is for the non-exempt spending. We don't count the exam portion. What's exempt. That's the part that is included in exclusion votes. So, the best example of that is the high school separate pool of money raised, uh, like extra taxes for a specific. And finite length project, um, so back to the 9, again, portion of the budget. We asked the town departments when we are begin in the summer. Who tells about the request for the next fiscal year. And also for their look forward to the next 4 years beyond that. These are also made to us by early September, and then we use the committee, we split up into our subcommittees and they meet with all the different departments. That's when we just request in detail, we also talk to facilities to talk about physical plant. We have each company comes back to present for full committee. And then we approve or not the requests and we prioritize. Looking to balance spending, uh, getting within the 5% rule over the full 5 year plan. We've been doing this in the 7. And we've been able to adhere to 5% rule with the occasional debt exclusion. To meet the debt the town needs and also having the 5% rule able to keep us. Within guard rails, not spending a little, but also not trying to overburden the town with debt service. 5% has worked for the last 30 plus years and it's very much in line with what we see at other cities and towns. I'll pause here for any questions before I turn it over to Chris. All right, all right. So, uh, next slide. What is capital, um, the committee has a specific definition, which might be a little different from what you've seen in other parts of your life. It's an item that has expected useful life of at least 2 years. And the unit cost of $3,000. Or is purchased in a program to gradually purchase and a set of identical or near the identical items for $25,000 or more. You might think these, uh, I'm an answer a little on the low end. They've been this way for quite a long time. We're also looking at eventually making some changes there. But this is what we have. For this year, a capital improvement is just adapting a capital asset to some new use or appreciably linking its life by, say, replacing the roof on a school. Something more than just kind of ordinary names. Next slide. So, some examples on a new roof, like I just said, electric wiring, a new floor, new plumbing, strengthening a wall by adding structural elements to it. Interior painting is 1 of our canonical examples of something that is not capital. Unless it's part of, say, building the building, some larger project, which is. So, expenditures make it into the capital plan when they are for capital improvement. So, an improvement to a capital asset for the purchase or lease of a capital asset. Or for a study or plan in preparation for the purchase or lease of a capital asset or capital. Everything else should go into the operating. And you'll see some examples as we go through tonight of things that have been kind of lurking in the capital plan for a while that aren't really capital. And we're slowly pushing them out in the operating budget as the operating budget has room to absorb them. Next slide. So, we'll try this to use the right words here. And I'm 1 of the people who fail sometimes, but to distinguish between the capital budget for 25, which is the thing that we're asking you to approve and it will go to town meeting. That's where we're spending in real money. We also do a 5 year capital plan, which is guess things will change for sure. But we want to know that, you know, the big blocks are in place and that we're not looking at some, you know, terrible shortfall, hand me out here. So we go through the process of doing this plan, but we know that things will move around possible change, etc. So, we don't worry about whether we hit the 5% limit in every single year of the out years. We only worry about it over the course of the whole plan, because in the past, we found that the process of moving things around to balance a year year was sort of a silly exercise. And yeah, so 10 meeting votes to approve the plan, but get it wrong already. So, there are a couple of things that have moved a little bit this year. First of all, the one that I already mentioned, things are getting pushed into the operating budget where that makes sense to do. Another one, which is completely new this year is most IT projects these days are cloud based, which means their expenses should be operating. However, when something needs to move from, say, 1 cloud service to another cloud service, there's often an overlap. And we've agreed as a committee to fund that expense in the overlap year only as a way to make it more. More tractable to switch services without a huge hit to the operating. Can you give me an example, an example would be, let's say, pick 1. I was going to say the word 1 of the things that's in the budget. We'll see for this year is changing the. Agendas and minutes software that the time you use on the time website to post all of our minutes and minutes. That's a service that is being sunset by the company that runs it. So, we're going to have to transfer to something else. And in the overlap year, we're probably into paying for 2 services as we make that happen. And so capital is agreeing to pay for that 1 year of 1 of the services. Licensing and transitional costs for just licensing. For the expectations that there are some overlapping of transitional costs, we've been from the old system that that 1st year. Is the new system is just, you know, it's ironing itself out for client. Yeah, yeah, so we're trying to avoid disrupting the operating budget and make it easier for the time to make those kinds of shifts. All right, next slide. So, this year, we're looking at 12.4 million for capital, the 4 offsets. So there are going to be some offsets that related to other sources of money. For instance, enterprise funds. And 10.3 million net after offsets. For the last several years, the capital plans felt pretty tight by which we mean that there's more stuff that seems like it's worth doing than we can actually pay for. That's as usual lately due to inflation and especially inflation in materials and labor for building things. So capital projects can be more expensive every time to turn around. Even some projects where we thought we had enough money in last year's capital budget and then put it out to bid and we'll swing it's more. So a few things like that have happened. There's a lot of long term cost uncertainty in the market. How much will a fire engine cost you in 5 years? Really hard to guess. So, you know, we make a guess with some reasonable number for inflation and we hope we're reasonably right. Since it's just a plan, we can adjust as we move along. We're also, we have a lot of agent facilities in town and we're trying to do a good job on maintaining and also upgrading them as we go. And the borrowing costs are up, which is great for everyone who's collecting interest and not so good for account. So, we have to take multiple approaches to bring the plan into balance. Some of the notable ones here are the Odyssey is a, sorry, the lurking capital expense. The plan is eventually to do some sort of rebuild there, but that plan has not really been fleshed out since we're still finishing up the high school. We're avoiding spending money on things that we were going to not do rebuild a lot of some, we probably be spending money on. So the plan is getting a little bit of break right now, because that's not happening. Eventually, presumably the other project will be an exempt project, but remains to be seen what that really looks like. As I've said before, we were pushing operating expenses off as much as we can into the operating budget. So that's cloud IT services. Schools had some proposals for sort of a fund for replacing ceiling and floor tiles kind of on an ad hoc basis where they were needed. That structure committee is really an operating sort of expense. So we left that off library after some painting and carpet replacement. Those are sort of our canonical examples of things that are capital. So we didn't do those. And the police wanted updates on flashlights and batons, which also aren't capital by our definition, unless you find a $3,000 flashlights, which I have a different problem. So those are some examples of things that were requested that the committee did not accept because they weren't capital. Once we got the list of sort of everything that seems to be capital, we ranked them off. Each person went through a ranking exercise with, and then we worked at what the committee as a whole came out with, and that caused us to make some scope reduction. We reduced funding for school front office renovations. So you'll see some more detail on those renovations when we get to the schools. There was an idea to expand Thorndike dog park, which we removed. Ron's library, you get to work on the entrance, including the front doors and the masonry surrounding the entrance, which we did accept. There was a proposal to put in a snowmelt system that cost nearly 400k and we decided it wasn't. Blue bikes. Blue bikes is an ongoing program. They had some out new requests for expansion, new stations with more types in them. They have current funding from grants and other places and the committee decided to remove that future funding, waiting to see how it works. You know, does the expansion of the system and the new contract, which is anticipated next year, get us to a place where it makes sense to spend more time capital money on the system. Another one is from the schools. Audison made a request to move to a one to one device program. We currently have a bring your own device optional program. And I guess there's some. Issues in that discipline to say that come from that program. And so they wanted to move to a one to one device program funded by the town. The cost of that was roughly 170k a year for us. And so the committee decided not to fund that. It's capital, but we thought it wasn't necessarily a great thing to sign up for. Similarly, the age s when one device program was initially funded by the building through the funding for the building and they were looking to move that on to the capital plan at about 150 a year. And we also decided not to accept that doesn't mean it won't happen. Either of those things, the schools will just have to find other funding. Any questions on all that. Yeah. Yeah, I just want to just mention, I see, you know, in the budget, there's a lot for Harlingen high school. Yeah. It's a phase out. We decided to phase them out over time. We're not helping them out. Right. Good point. What do we need to do for our office renovations and schools that are not very old. Can I put that question off until we get to the schools. Thank you. All right. Any other questions? Okay. Next slide. Alex is going to take over for a minute here and talk about capital plan projects. So I'm just going to speak to sort of some recent benefits of the capital plan projects that are going on around down in the library, the robins library, there's been a new lighting system, which is sort of utility bills by about 40%. It's been a nice wind. I was also in the building management system is placed there to help manage that new lighting system. We have completed last late spring, summer and electrification study, which sort of is can act as a bit of a roadmap on electrifying buildings. We have money on the books right now, but we're going to wait on spinning that until a few more things come into focus. But we're going to meet our electrification goals. We need to start getting serious about figuring out a roadmap to build a new lighting system. It's going to be very expensive. And so finding it through the traditional capital plan that's likely going to be an issue at some point in the future. The new building building, which is like sort of the main building now open and functioning. This has sort of the main the W. The new building building, which is like sort of the main building now open and functioning. This has sort of the main the W. The employees facilities and sections are all over there. And then buildings a at the C and D are all sort of underway right now as part of that project. This patient is only closing that project out hopefully this year. So more to be said later on on this. CUNY center elevator and HGAC those projects are ongoing right now. Number of playground upgrades that occurred. Funded sort of by various funding mechanisms and profit has funded a lot of our recent playground work. We put just the new Lucas system and that's an automated chest compression system. Which fire department is very. Really enjoys being able to have it sort of saves people that's from doing really bigger CPR. They had actually a life save using this tool in December, December, December, which is really great to hear for vehicle replacements. We have. We're still having difficulty getting all of the vehicle to want exactly on the time that seems to be that log jam seems to be sort of. Releasing a little bit and so we anticipate being able to purchase everything that's funded in the current year this year. Over the last few years, we've had difficulty getting all of the vehicles that we needed. In the plan for next year we're funding almost three quarters of a million dollars in vehicle purchases. So. Requesting that. So this is a pretty significant chunk of money that's spread across nine. For different vehicles within various operations. School and county projects are ongoing minutes and agendas. Something that we'll look into redo. We have to replace our GIS system, which is aging and we're moving forward on. So. That's just all we were always marching forward with new technology. Capital plan. Some projects that are currently underway right now with more Robbins or construction, water and sewer improvements and roadways and sidewalks. Our almost to our spring, sort of our roadway construction season. So we'll be able to start opening up roads soon when the cross is no longer an issue. Robbins library bathrooms. Those are not really our capital project, but they are capital projects. That was a CPA funded project of the week. Yeah, so DPW campus. Working towards it. The Mystic street bridge is finally going out to bid. In the next month or so. And the high school as we all know faces 1 and 2 are now complete. We're on the phase 3, which is the athletic building. And then phase 4 will be field and I quite want and calendar year 25. Okay, that was a lot. Next slide. So how the budget is formed for our capital plan. Chris touched on this a little bit. What we do is we take our long range plan, which really guides a lot of our budgeting principles in town. And we take sort of as a point in time. That's sort of that is a dynamic document that changes as more information. But it comes to late. So we, you take the camp thought of that. This year, our pro forma number was $221 million. Our. We adjust for exempt debt service with just 12.5 million. We adjust for all of our enterprise offset. Which include water and sewer. And that brings us to 205 million dollar budget and 5% of that is how we determine what power of budgets. Next slide, please. You can see that sort of play out here. It's probably very difficult to see from where all of you are sitting, but the sort of fifth lying down the percept total is $12.4 million. We have a whole section of red. This bill of interest. We sort of exclude from that 5% number. These are various different kinds of offsets that we calculate and sort of fold the plan harmless from. So, for example, we have antenna funds, which we get certain dollars from AT&T and T-Mobile from a couple of antennas that we have around. We interpret those towards the plan. Same thing for any override money that's been promised to. Specific projects in the past. So in the 2011 2019 and most recent 2023 overrides. Those all had specific promises made. So those are held outside of our 5% number. Our debt service for our ambulance. We have a lot of different types of services. Our debt service for our ambulance. We pay specific projects down with our ambulance revenues. We keep that outside of the 5% number. And so really what this does, it brings us down to a number that we as a committee aim for to get into exact balance at 5% for our total budget. We achieve that to within $24 in the lab, which is quite the achievement it feels like. And then we balance it over the 5 years also. So, yeah. Right. Next slide please. Capital funding sources. The two main funding sources that we use are cash and bonding. Cash is just money that is entirely comes out of our sort of our unallocated funding. We just decided to pay for something up front. We're not going to borrow for it. Bonded is anything typically that costs over $100,000. There are certain. There are certain items that you cannot borrow for. And then we have to follow state law. And we interface whenever we anticipate bond, something with our bond council on whether or not we are eligible to borrow for that. Item or project and for the borrowing duration that we plan. All of the borrowing durations are then baked into our capital plan. And that informs our out years debt service. And then we have another funding source category called other. These are things like grants chapter 90 user fees. So just sort of your other different smaller pots of money that we cobbled together to make significant. Next slide please. All right, so our funded projects, our ARPA. Finning strategy. It really went into effect a couple of years ago. We took two. One time $5 million revenue offsets. So that was just money that came into the town's coffers. To the $210 million total dollars that let about $25 million to be spent on ARPA eligible projects over the ensuing roughly four years. All of our ARPA money needs to be tied up. So this is a contract. So it needs to be what the feds are calling. Convert basically by the end of that flight. By the end of calendar 2024. So this, you know, late winter and into early spring, we'll be making a big push at sort of. So out of the town manager's office and the select, the benefit of the select board to determine what sort of the. The rest of the runway for our spending is going to look like. Not going to make any huge wholesale changes to the plan that's been in place for years, but we do have some money that can be sort of swept into other projects and sort of re prioritized. So that money is coming through that plan coming. So we're not. We're not investing any major ARPA funding into this year's capital. I'm going to turn it back over to team right now next slide please. Okay, so one more slide for me here at the high level, we're going to give you a summary of what the acquisition expense is going to be for the F by 25 budget. And that's 16.1 million dollars that's different from the plan to the number that you saw before. This is the out of pocket cost this year. So it doesn't have debt service from bonds that we are newly issuing this year. Sorry, 5% of what you saw before doesn't have that service from what you saw from a bond that we're issuing this year. It does have. Debt service that we've incurred in prior, but this number doesn't have this is paying out of pocket this year is going to be a portion. A portion come out of cash portion that we issue bonds for pay for it now, and then we paid the bond bills later and has the portion that coming from other funds and we have a minute to go. So, this is how it breaks out. Again, 16.1 million dollars at the bottom comes out of 16, 6.5 million of bond is under 5 million of cash. 4.6 million dollars of other almost all of the other is in public works. You'll see that public works and schools together are about 80% plus of capital budget. And we wanted to give you a sense of what the breakout was here. But also to understand how we've been for the rest of our presentation, you've done them in the sending order from largest to smallest. So, you'll see public works coming up next. As we dive into the department by department. Part of the presentation 1 last thing I want to mention before we go on to the next slide. Is that we tried to and emphasize that we're asking you to vote on and I mean to vote on the FY 25 capital budget. And so whenever we show numbers for what's being spent in public works or schools or what have you. We have tried trying to be consistent about having them show in black. If they're FY 25 to drop into them and during the out years who haven't been great. So, focusing on what's actually in the budget for FY 25. And if it were we move on to the individual pieces any questions about sort of the big overview. I just want to be sure I understand this. Okay. So the other that's like grant funding, it's not coming out of the budget. Correct. $4,952 hatch is coming out of this year's budget. And then the bond. FY 25 budget. Yes. I'm already in there. Okay. Bond amount is we're going to bond that amount of money. And that's going to add something to the debt service that'll show up next year. Yeah. We go back to. Page 16 in the presentation. That'll show up in that non prior. And prior non exempt debt service lot. Yes. Whatever we're paying on that. It actually shows up in its own line called new non exempt that services right below prior. That's right. Excellent. Yes. I have to tell you, it is taking me 20 years to come to membership three. I want to tell you that that's how this works. I just had to do it. Thank you. It's basically. The, the bond is. What we're paying for with the credit card. And then we pay the debt. And then we pay the credit card bill next year. Yep. And all past credit card bills next year. Yes. And future years. I think about our budget for this year. This year's credit card bill. Yeah. Charlie. The other bill in public works is water. Sorry. How much is 2.9 million dollars? 2.9 million dollars. Sorry. How much is 2.9 million dollars? The 3, 3 million of the four and a half is water and sewer. Correct. Right. And the rest is like Rose chapter 90. Yeah, there's about three quarters million that is chapter 90. There's a portion that is from a department of environmental protection grant that will come to that in a few slides. And that's the lion's share of it right there. John, do you have a question? Yes. The breakout of the, I guess the other 4.6 million. Is that, is that good through the EPW's budget? Is that why it's all there? I'm just wondering why that's carved out. Yeah, the other is, so water and sewer is almost fully excluded from this plan. In a way, we show it there as a capital number, but water and sewer, like their, their 20 plus million dollar budget is not included in our pro forma budget, the 220. And their debt service is not included in our debt service numbers. That was almost exclusively within that enterprise. Got it. So it's like capital capital expenditures at the town, but not necessarily. Right. Thank you. Yeah. Just to clear my reading this right in the next year, you're not facing credit card at all. So, you know, new debt services zero. New debt services zero because we don't issue the bonds until December this year. Right. We can come to you until after the end of this year. Right. We did what's called a long first coupon. We're not going to be making any new debt service payments this year. So I can just sort of look at the, the sort of sort of shift to the left on the space. Or is that true every year? Through year. Yeah. Okay. So I appreciate the, the move to move things that are not. To bunch of budgets. And you've mentioned that there's still some things that hadn't been moved on that pick anything. Did you give me sort of a big picture of that? How much you think is still not quite a capital expense. We did look at that, you know, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very little actually. Okay. $15,000. Yes. It was in like the five figures. So not much at all. Yeah. Okay. We're almost there. Yeah. Small and it's really difficult to absorb things into the operating budget. Yeah. So it's just a tough. Other questions. So far. We're going to move to our secretary Joe Solomon. Talk about public works. Yeah. So the first slide here, the DPW new facility as Alex mentioned. Phase one of new buildings. Largely complete at this point. It's occupied by main departments. The goal is to have the project wrapped up by later this year. The work is moving into older buildings. Which is, you know, focus on the storage. The storage offices or some site work around the buildings. And to date, the project is at its current budget of a little over $46 million. As the board gets into older buildings, there is some expectation of minor additional costs, but there's no additional ask for money in the capital budget because that will be offset by essentially operating surplus that they have from unfiltered camps. Yeah. Any other questions on that project? Thank you. Design build. Construction company at risk project. Yeah, it's a construction management at risk project. So why, why are we funding their overruns through the operating book? Well, we're funding the overrun because of sort of unforeseen site conditions, which are basically the only reason why instruction management at risk contracts. The duration, if the duration of the project goes longer due to site conditions, which essentially seemed to happen almost all the time. It doesn't always happen, but it does happen a lot. Then your bottom line test tag goes up. They got a $10 million increase in this project cost long after they were in the project. So they knew the site conditions. Yeah, they're, they're kind of discovering new thing. We, it's very aggressive. Yeah. But we're likely to be able to keep it within the sort of, without having to come back for any new month. Why do we sign a contract like that? Not enforced. And then we're, we're, you know, you're saying that we have excesses in the surpluses in the operating budget. We don't have surpluses in the operating budget. We're not giving services to some of the, some of the citizens. I mean, we have surpluses in the DPW operating budget. It's coming from services, not being delivered or being delayed. Yeah, I'm not entirely sure how to answer that. We are enforcing the contract fully. There is not yet. I don't want to take a lot of time, but isn't there a conflict between funding the overruns out of the operating budget and enforcing the contract that to be the responsibility of the, of the contract? Yeah, it is their responsibility. Yeah. And then the town building committee that is sort of managing this project. We're managing sort of as best as possible. And the, the CM at risk contract is being enforced as best as we can. We're not, you know, sort of just handing over money, you know, we have to get the project done as quickly as we can. Any overruns, they have any cost overruns that we pass the tape or have to send it to someone. Can you tell me why we have to pay for them? That's what I'm trying to understand. Yeah, because we find dirty dirt underground and find problems within the walls of the project. Is that, are those things specifically excluded to the contract? Um, no, no. And then I'm, I'm at a loss about how we're managing. Right. The cost increases that are due to unseen site. And did I like the one, the one out for the at risk part? Correct. Yeah. Oh, it is excluded. I'm sorry. Okay. Thank you. How much money are you talking about? I think I don't know the pendulum seems to swing weekly where we sound like we're over by, I, if I had to place the best guess, I'd say in the low to mid six figures. Um, we've luckily had a really light winter. We're likely to be able to fund this even out of snow and ice. But, um, yeah, it's, um, who knows, like last week, we were 20,000 in the black. So, you know, just, you don't know until you're really working on these things. We get updates weekly from our construction manager. Um, and when we have a big overrun, we are usually able to negotiate that down to, um, to sort of reduce our risk, um, reduce their risk really, you know, um, and pay sort of a lower cost to move forward. That makes sense. Okay. So questions. I'm a little confused why, um, dirty dirt underneath the building was not taken into consideration before we signed a contract with them because we knew darn well that we had gas tanks under there that were there way before the current requirements and that the fact that they would likely be leaking was extremely high. Not to mention the fact that it's on the site where the old, um, that's a little bit once. So are you telling me we set up a contract where we didn't factor that in beforehand? No, it was factored in and test kits were done as part of the, um, part of the project. Uh, but I think that it's coming back worse than anticipated. It doesn't take much for it to get really bad. Okay. So. I can understand this in the terms of my world. You signed a contract with a certain scope. That scope included every risk and contingency that you could identify in conjunction with the construction manager who was going to take every opportunity to add to that scope, and I felt like that possibly run into that because they were going to be at risk. You signed that contract and what we're discovering now are things that are legitimately outside of the scope that was agreed upon in the contract. Right. Basically, I mean, um, yeah, you know, you can say that it's like the scope, the scope remain roughly the same, but it changes over time when you discover who conditions you have to deal with. Right. So, sort of giving you an example of my world, you know, the client says, we only need to move 100 fields from this object to that object and we only need to migrate a thousand records of data and then you wake up the next morning and suddenly it's 5,000 records that you found. And now you go back to the client and said, your scope doesn't cover that. You've got to either add or you have to not move as much data or give you other examples. You didn't rebuild that form. We're not going to do it unless you have this scope. Oh, but it was implied by no, it was nowhere on occasion. You had two forms listed in there. I think the other thing to think about is if you ask a contractor to take on all of the risk, then they price that completely into their debt. Do you want to pay the full amount regardless? So there's sort of this point of, you know, hopefully ideal point that maybe not where you sort of say, okay, we've asked you to take on a lot of risk, but if it's beyond that, then we have to sort of share in the recipe, otherwise you're going to charge me, you know, a lot more, not just a little bit more to accept that sort of low probability, but still non-zero risk. This is the fixed fee problem. If you tell me I have to work on a fixed fee, I'm going to double my fee. If you tell me I consume time and materials, I'm going to take the risk to the tips of other than this. There are a lot of unknowns. Yeah, there's always a lot of unknowns. And you don't want to price the 5,000 brectors. And if your last thing shows you that, like, reasonably, you can say, I only have 200. You and the client don't. I, the consultant, would love to price the 5,000 brectors. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. I remember everybody's motivations. Okay. Okay. This project is on the jurisdiction of the permanent town building. Correct. Okay. The chairman of the permanent town building committee came before town meeting. With almost tears in his eyes. I'm talking about all the problems they're having with the town hall project. I'm meeting. That's the strength. So it sounds like what you're saying here is that. Is that. You won't have to come back. For the permanent for the, for this project. That's how we can get. Hold you to that. Thank you. Okay. I think, I'm. Throwing back to construction manager risk. I assume that is a more expensive contract. Just time on materials. Yeah. Is there any, I don't expect that answer right now, but is there any way to say, okay, we paid this premium to get the construction manager at risk. And this is how much. Let's put into that to save. Or is. Is it worth it? Can we retroactively look and see what the. policy cost us and how much that's saved. So it was a better deal for going forward. We should not do that anymore because it would be cheaper to sell it. Essentially. Yeah, I mean, it's sort of like my house burned out and the insurance guy says, well, okay, but it didn't cover the roof. Yeah, we can like do a look back, you know, we're locked into this. The CM at risk. Sort of model for these big projects is when you have a lot of unknown you try to typically show the CM at risk and it's more of a. When you have more unknown to use it when you have less unknown to do it like a design traditional design is build project. Right. A lot of unknown. Well, yeah, given where the given a very old building where it was located. What was there. All these things that we've discussed right now that caused overruns. We had gone with the design design big build like a more traditional build. I don't know what the cost would have been but I would imagine we'd be right in the ballpark of it. But I was like Carolyn pointed out everybody knows. I guess I would, it was possible at some point, do a look back because going forward. Right. There are a lot of cases where we decided to self insure cheaper this field of form insurance. Right. Yeah, I think it's probably a lot about even doing that. Thank you. And Charlie and Sophie. Thank you. I have a question about what was just said here in this presentation about this building. I thought I heard you say that it's just about used up to $46.5 million budget. And then I also thought I heard you say that we're now starting to move into more buildings. In those two buildings. There's nothing. No, we haven't, we are on budget. We haven't, we haven't extended all the budget. I have to get back to you. I don't know. I can send you a report. Thank you. So what would I am curious about is. This idea of finding the money in the operational budget savings. So those are the budgets to be reviewed. So. Are you making decisions in the operations of not filling big positions or not doing things and that's in the idea of keeping some money for this or. No, I mean, we would always love to have all of our positions still. We have a huge need. It's just extremely difficult to hire. Especially, like, especially, especially for our DBW positions right now. Very, some of our very lower paying positions. It's impossible to find somebody with the CDL that'll work for 25 bucks an hour. Just, it's like really hard. Finding labor. So at what point do you ask to increase those and actually fill them and then not have the money for something like this? I mean, it seems like a. Yeah. Yeah. It's very complicated. These are all collectively bargain positions. It's a lot more difficult than just sort of like saying, we're going to add 5 bucks each position because we don't have the money to do it. And at what point do you just how long until you say when we can't fill positions, we haven't pulled up the next number of years. Take it out of the budget. So you're talking about like reducing like sort of headcounts. Right. I mean, but then you don't have the money for this. I'm just wondering at what points those just stay as we know we'll never hire. The thing is, is like the sort of the vacancies or excess snow and ice, those are not things you plan to have, right? There are things that like, they become a funding source because it's not by sort of design. It would be fantastic. We could have an entire workforce still because then we could be doing all the work that we need to be. Instead of falling. And so where would you get the money? If, if you were a capacity, you were using right. If we were at capacity. Yeah. If we were at capacity, then we would have to find money elsewhere from reserve fund transfer or. How many, I mean, we'd have to find the money. It's not. Or we'd have to cut scope. We'd have to not do one of those buildings in the project. Or someone I think that's, I mean, yes. Some of the money went from 24 unused ones though. Right. Like the 24 unused. Yes. It's this year. Right. I mean, that's an obvious rate. Thank you. I took her and then Jennifer and then Dean. So I'm just curious some of the things we knew the dirt. We knew it was dirt. How do you, how do you, how do you measure that it's more dirty than the contract. I was not even thinking about it. Like during the project. Yeah, like when they say, well, you know, you have over, you know, this is outside the scope. I mean, you know, it was a toxic wisdom. Right. It's outside of my sort of sphere of knowledge, you know, experts come expert contractors come in and they tell you. Okay, so I'm part of some party. I think to any point we could say there's a million square yards of dirt. Should we pay upfront to remove. I'm just curious what they're natural or, you know, which is like, is it parts of the lawyer or some sort of. No, we did a test fit and then it was like more or is it more and maybe it's just. Maybe it's just more dirt. I mean, there's a whole field of licensed professionals who do this kind of work and they pretty much. I doubt that there's something going on because it's like a pretty well, you know, defined process. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So just having, I just posted this, sorry, but just to give you a sense of the scope, we have about. 600,000 extra money. But to your sort of questioning about it. Having looked at the budgets for a while. It's not always as an addition. It may be one exception, three parameters. But, but you'll see, you know, even from where the budget of the tier and then what's going on today. There'll be new vacancies and a different position. And then a position that would be here is going to fill. So, you know, so just sort of cutting one out wouldn't probably get. The only such nice treatment. I think I, which always seems to have a big secret, but everyone would love to fill it. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dean. So DPWR projects. So, I struggled with this. Because, well, this is the first time you've been over budget in the last four years of this project. Right. It's the fourth time overall. Like you asked for $9 million the last time we heard all sorts of things and we were told that this wasn't going to happen again. Now we're back. And so, for me, it's an incredibly frustrated thing. Like, I mean, I, I struggle because we're all neighborly and friendly friends here. So I, like, I have every note at 11 front of me. And I, I really struggled because I don't want to just read what we said every time. Right. And, you know, we went to a special town meeting to deal with October 20 with the special November of 20 was a special 2020. It's like, this isn't a reflection. Like, this is not a good one. It's just not. It's like, it's a bad one one project, which was originally a budget project that was originally 29 million $29.9 million is where it is now. That's really like, and what frustrates me the most. We talked about this over zoom in 2020, which was, you know, every time these projects go up, something else gets caught. Right. So you look at like, you look at a park budget, you look at rehab, you know, rehabbing a playground or something and things get cut because this sinkhole is widening. It's, it's, it's very frustrating to me. Like, okay, here we go again. W yard. You know, we're not going to ask you, I had learned not to ask him, this is going to happen again. Because I don't want to know it sucks. So I, that's why I don't, I can't articulate anything else. Here's a softball. I meant to punch on this later because of the runtime to ask, but writer street. I was looking at the five year plan. I see nothing to do anything with writer street discussions or plans or if you're aware of anything that might be happening in writer street after. Yeah, there's still some ongoing operations at writer street. I don't do anything to announce right now, but yeah, definitely have a making plans. Okay, but I'm saying find your plan. So they're just not cool expensive place. No, they're not developed. I mean, we can't ask for something that we don't know about yet. Okay, thank you. But it has been. Yes, definitely. I mean, we have operations that are continued there every day. Yeah. Plus, I mean, there are vehicles that operate in that are there every day still. So, I mean, the, the knackered site is a good asset, but I just don't want it to just. It will not go. Yeah. Charlie, then Michael. So, thank you. I mean, first of all, I want to say that the committee of large that capital planning committee is not managing this project. So these issues. You know, while this is a good opportunity, especially for me to vent frustration, it's not their problem. They've been doing their job. However, I think it would be appropriate. And I don't know how the chair would consider doing this, but I think we should ask for complete and detailed report. And then we'll have an initial report on the status of this project and how it got to this point. Because I'm not happy with the fact that we're clearly. Behind in our funding or somehow misrepresenting the funds of the operating side of the W budget. In order to fund the overruns on this capital project. And we need to get to the bottom of it. And the report is from building committees. It's from the town manager or current town building. I don't know, but I think the committee will be requiring. That's my recommendation. Michael. Chris the $75,000 for. This year's request plus 3 more years out for. Town hall renovations. Is that connected to to the roof and the whole there in or is that something else? We'll get to that soon. But yes, it's connected to all the men things that are falling part of town hall. The whole roof is 1 of the primaries against that. Parking heads put together their wish lists and the requests come up and eventually are. Are judged and graded and did anybody in the last couple of years say, hey, you know, I think the town hall roof is looking. Town hall has been programmed for about $75,000 in small capital repairs every year, quite a while. Even though we had studies about what needs to be done to the envelope, the building that show there's a lot of need there. It's just not something that I've been proposed for an actual project. The piecemeal stuff that comes here and there. Yeah, this, this last year it went from piecemeal to, oh my God, Lutarch sent. Yeah. Yeah, you know, the ceiling lowest collapse. And my list of capital nightmares. It's pretty hot out there along with us and then do other things. And those are things that, you know, we don't really know the scope of it. But I think it's a big and the best. All right. Dean and then Jennifer questions on the DPW project. Oh, no, I have one. Dean. I'll wait. I have something to do with general places. We're going to keep going on. Yeah. Okay. Next slide. Okay. So the next slide we're going to talk about is drugs and sidewalks. Over the coming five years as an average of just over $2 million per year for roadways. The last study we have has been 2019 and recommends that level of spend to maintain the current quality at 80 out of 100 score. Obviously there's been some inflation since then the next report will come up and we'll talk about that in a little bit more detail. Which we can use in our planning. One of the larger roadway projects that's coming up. And it's the. Not all roadway funding, but about $550,000 to address. Park Avenue as a corridor. You know, by 25. A large majority of that is engineering and design work. And it will transition away from design and more into. Construction work. Any questions on that before I go through the sidewalks. Yeah. Putting it politely, I think the condition of our roads. It has degraded. Considered we over the last. Five to eight years. In. That may be because of plus escalation. Maybe because of. You know, You know, You know, You know, You know, You know, You know, You know, You know, You know, You know, You know, Maybe because of plus escalation, Maybe because the infrastructure. People like a. National grid or wherever. Things up the streets doesn't. But I think, I think we're given Belmont a good run for the money. And well, it's a serious problem. And I think. You know, strategically, one of the things we have to consider here. Is we put hundreds of millions of dollars into our school infrastructure. And we've neglected streets and sidewalks. And somehow that imbalance needs to be considered. And, you know, I've been behind some of those hundreds of millions on the school site. So I'm not trying to say that my hands are closed. But the situation that we have with the roads getting serious is serious and getting worse. So I don't know how the capital planning committee thinks it's going to address that, or if you have addressed it. Yeah, I mean, I can watch the approaches on a five year cycle, the town hires a consultant who goes out and creates a PCI score. So for roadway segments, they'll determine where it is. And then as an asset, a roadway, in terms of the replacement or repair costs, isn't it doesn't degrade linear linear. If you take care of it with sort of lighter treatments, more regularly, the quality of the road can be maintained. So your score will be maintained at a more acceptable level. If you wholly neglect the road, it starts to really accelerate down a curve where the work required to repair the road becomes, I need to dig up the whole thing and rebuild it. So you're talking about, you know, $1 to $2 per hour going up to, you know, 20 to 30, right? Very serious difference. What the town does is they take the report that's done every five years, they take that data, they put it into a program, and the program gives them based on the town saying, I have X dollars. It says, here's where you need to make repairs to minimize the degradation of the system as a whole. So our approach has been, and this is sort of the first cycle through it, is to get that data to understand what the report says, and it says to maintain spend X and try to get close to that so that we stay away from that other end of the cost curve where this just spirals and becomes untenable. And in terms of what we've done on a capital plan in the last three years or so, it's we've been notching up the amount of the total amount that they will spend on both roadways and so on. Really? So we are now at the point where we're essentially meeting the goal offered to us five years ago. Better than we were, still not probably where we need. And how do we solve the problem? I mean, then we have to put more money into the road. This is not a unique problem that Arlington faces. It's sort of maybe a discussion for another time about how much does it cost to maintain a road system. And is it something that a municipality should take on? Should the state maybe provide more chapter 90 funding when I was in my first year of trying to learn about this? I searched chapter 90 funding in road condition. Every town is going to state saying you don't give me enough to maintain my roads. It's, it may not be a problem that is going to be solved at a capital funding level. But I don't think we want to let it get away from ourselves. So we're trying to get close and trying to make sure we maintain it as best as possible. But I, what was it? It was to get from a 79 or 78 to an 80. We needed to spend an extra quarter million dollars per year. So to be B minus students, essentially, we would, we would be, you know, giving up two police cars every year forever, right? It's a lot of money to just maintain it. Yeah, so Christian on this, um, so when national grid comes and there's up the road, so they patch it. But today, then who's responsible for really fixing. At that point, like once they're done with everything in the major. Do they come back and be David or does yeah, they come back and David, depending on when it is, they do a temporary or permanent and then they eventually get to a permanent. They eventually get to a permanent. We sign out. Great. Yes. I think we also want us to inspect and finish that. Right. Can we also benefit their ability to dig up roads when we freshly. Right. If there's something that didn't like fresh and paid, we. Let's say we want to sign off. And we try to find efficiencies where, you know, the roads open that we're doing. We're doing stuff training. So the easier than done though, the line that can happen. Hey. Sidewalks. Yes. Sidewalks are a little bit over $1 million per year over the five year plan. The data here is from 2015 a little bit older, but it just looked at the entire system and said. At this point in time, you've got about a $26 million backlog. Of work to address quite a variety of efficiencies. And again, this isn't. The backlog doesn't get you to perfect. It gets me to the point where really your sidewalks are. Fair plus fair good. Excellent. And as Alex mentioned earlier, there was a recent override here towards mobility improvements. $200,000 per year. What we do is we carry that 200,000 and then. Each year that goes up by 2.5% in perpetuity. And there's a few examples of some of the 25 projects that will be supported by that. So any questions on sidewalks or the. Perfect. Yeah. So this is, I think, maintaining our current sidewalks. Or this take into account. I think something like there are places in town that tell us. How does that. It's at the discretion of the DW. What would be this. Yeah, yeah, it would come out. You're saying this point, this is. This is a huge backlog. This is. Maintaining. Sidewalks don't really degrade aggressively. What he has said is they use. Sort of. A few layers of data looking at, you know. Areas that tend to have higher pedestrian traffic areas that tend to come up on equity surveys. They use data to find hotspots where they need to. Increase the quality or maintain sidewalk infrastructure and that guide for their spending of. I do see something. I see 50% of sidewalks. Yeah, this isn't the discretion. Yeah, but, but it is driven by a. Yeah. There's also at dealing with accessibility issues because that's like, there's no more priority is adding. Upgrading ramps. Corners. Yeah. Yeah. We use CDBG funds for that too. But yeah, it's not, it's not enough. I mean, eventually don't get them all, but then. Then the accessibility change. Change. Yes. Yeah. So they actually decided to sign off from our neighborhoods needs your access to. That was in the budget. I understand. So I have a question. So the. Sidewalk and street money that are listed here. Was that check the money or check the money on top of this. Okay. I'm also really excited about the fashion beacons and the rodents library. I'm also really excited that that's something that you can do in their operating expense, which is. The industry's done for years, which is sidewalks shaving. So that when you see, you know, there's a side of it off here, they shave off the top. So it's, it's just not as much. I feel like we're making some. Yeah. The hungry hungry. Yeah. Yeah. We finally started doing it. So this starting last year. Nice. Just one question that's just a little ahead just so I don't keep raising my hand, which is, I'm just. I didn't get an answer from my. Um, the 750,000 voters. Um, it, if you do not go for this grant, we'll have to pay an educational 750. Is that true? The next five years. I didn't want to keep raising my hand. So that's a question I want. Granted across the level. Yes. Um, thank you. Um, I don't want to be any of your work by the way, I think you guys did a great job. Um. In 26.1 million backlog. Um, how much of that are we getting better for a year? About 1.04 million. Yeah. Is it growing or is it back like. A lot of backlog is missing. Right. Yeah. Again, so a sidewalk. When I, when I read the 2015 report. Really, it's things like tree roots, which will actually physically destroy the side one. Other than that, once you put a concrete sidewalk in. If you, you know, mix the concrete for the right way. It's kind of, you're good for a while. Um, so I, I, when I talked about the roads and how they degrade, and get to that, but that, that isn't the characteristic that you see in the side. That saying like 26.1 million dollar backlog at a million dollars a year, like none of us are going to be sitting here doing this when, when we solve the problem. So, you know, similar to. Oh my God, the road. What are we going to do? Like it does feel like quite a big lift. So we're not really progressing. Well, we don't. I would say we are progressing and it may not look overwhelming because we're progressing at about a million dollars of spend per year against a multi 10s a million dollar. Target. Sure. And again, like I mentioned, some stuff you say added, but maybe not more than doesn't. Never more than a million a year additional stuff. So we're going to somehow make it make in inroads inroads on the. Yeah. Right. Thank you. Okay. So that $26 million backlog. That includes places where there's no sidewalks. I submit excludes private ways. I understand. Yeah. Check it. Yes. Toners. Please. Yep. I would start with your question. The million. Okay. So this is a requirement of the pending renewal of the contract. So there's overalls where under the bed, it could go away. Um, Um, So that's where you see there's some of the other covered by others. Um, so this is a requirement of the pending renewal of the contract. So there's overalls where under the bed, it could go away. Um, Uh, but right now it's just to supply every home with recycling and a trash to odor to cut down on the labor costs. Trash program. So we're going to get grant. Well, Five year plan, Subway 50,000 for 10 years, And selling 50,000 voters grant. Is that missing a minus something? No, so one and a half million dollar project. So 750 would be sort of like our expenses. 750 is like sort of grant. Okay. But it's to represent the total cost. I just like to add to this that. There is like they didn't say there's a world in which this becomes very advantageous to us. If we do not arrive at that world then we could speak this money and not buy the toters. But this is a as I know that you are all very well aware of this is a looming problem for us. It's trash and recycling. A lot of the haulers these days want you to move to something that they can use their robotic arms to you know to remove the waste from your house. So having these uniform toters would allow for that kind of an operation. Who knows when we go out to you know when we issue an RFP on this like who's gonna respond and how they don't respond. It may not require this and it may not become a thing. We have to reserve well we feel like we have to reserve this in our plan in order to potentially land and have the dangerous contract. It's gonna be really I think very expensive either way. You're gonna talk about okay I channeled you the other night. It seems like maybe a good opportunity to consider pays you well. This is definitely an opportunity to do that. Part of the $750,000 grant broken into two grants because we're looking at sort of two different toters. A larger recycling toter and then a smaller trash toter. With a smaller trash toter comes a almost a forced change in behavior for residents and you only have a finite number you know number of gallons of trash. You would have to either purchase excess bags or for another toter or something along those lines and so that is sort of where the sort of calculus comes in whether this is advantageous to us as a town or not. So we don't know yet this is still being sort of discussed and negotiated I will not even negotiate it yet. This being discussed and sort of like conceived that with the town manager and the DBW director along with sort of a number of different people are talking right now to try to figure out what's the best way forward. So this conceivably could involve a pay-as-you-throw model. Really what that would do is it would shift a lot of these excess costs on to sort of like your user base who are using it more so they do more they pay for more. A basic level of service and then anyone who produces a ton of extra waste then they are going to have to pay for it a little extra. It just seems like going to toters requires a fair behavioral change and would be a good time to multiple that effort. How much of those toters if a resident needs to buy one? I think that that would be or depend on the contract. I don't know. I'm thinking I have had to replace half dozen recycling bins because of the treatment that they get. I haven't had these exact toters. Like the toters that are pictured I don't know when they cost me about 60 to 70 bucks each. And so how does this work with park cars? Yeah, so there would be requirements on how where you would be able to place your trash can. It would have to allow for access for this robotic arm and I don't know the sort of specifics of that but there are countless communities that are dense and denser than are going to do this. So I'm sure that there are ways to make it work but I don't know. I don't know what the specifics are. So when you say depending on which size toters are ultimately selected, so we would have to choose the right side total. Right. So the VP is calling for a 32 gallon size trash total just small. It's like a little bit bigger than your sort of normal round trash can, you know, like curbside one. And so the recycling cans are 64 gallons, so they're double there. And so that's kind of like the that's the like base level that you can qualify into the VP granting program. And as we looked around at all it's sort of like how much most people are growing hours. Yeah. Waste tonnage likely isn't going to change much. Okay. Because unfortunately less than 32 gallons, so that would be fine. But it's too much. Right. And it's hard to do this on like a micro level. We can look at it at like sort of we track this by light when the trash goes to the incinerator or recycler or recycling goes to the plant. So I don't know if it's easy to track on for household bases but we can spread it across all of our households and find this level of the 32 gallons would suffice. But there are, you know, every household is different. Like I have six people live in my house. And so we're going to produce a lot more waste than two people, you know, so it's stuff. You know, I'll make you do it. There you go. That's what we need. So your product works. Altos seed and then Topher and then Charles. Is there any other urban areas near us where these toasters are used? I mean, I've seen these used in a lot of places. But the ones I've seen and used are in suburban areas where people usually don't park on the street. Right here, people park on the street a lot and if they park in front of your trash cans or your toasters, the truck can't get to them. So I lived in Medford and we had these for trash and recycling. Yard waste was not one of the toasters but we had, it was just like this program. I lived in a two-family and a neighborhood full of two families. It was very dense. It was mostly street parking and that was how we got rid of our waste there. We're like, we're fine there. But so Medford uses this for trash. Right, Topher. Any other questions on toasters? All right, I'm going to slide. And then this is a more granular view of what we're showing earlier, or slightly a bit of what we're showing earlier on how the EPW breaks out against general and vehicles and then this coming year versus the out years. The administration line you see, the 750, or the 1.5 is the toasters and then within the highway and the water and sewers where you see most of the rest of the four and a half million and across the five years we're at 39 million a total spend within EPW, not net of street access. There we go on. All right, one question. Maybe not the right time, but it's right here. So the water and sewer is dear to my heart. And then the stature arc that's nearly here. Yeah, it's 2.9 million and it's all under other, right? And so I think I just want to verify this. So 901.5, that's MWRA is the other, I believe, right? That's the stuff we asked for kind of meaning. And then we have the 450 for drainage rehab and 50 for hydrogen and water replacement. Are those the separate bonds that get quoted? Is that how that is financed? Is that good? No, I'm not entirely certain how we're financing those next year, but yeah, we will borrow for them. We have, we keep some, we do fund some things out of the water and sewers operating budget that I think we finance almost all. They'll come from the water sewer enterprise fund in the end. Right, they'll just outside of this plan essentially. So they come from the enterprise fund? Right, yeah. Whether they're bonded and then bonds are paid from the bonds or they're not in the bond, that's what I'm saying. They're actually in the regular water sewer budget and that can be a little confusing because they are displayed here and we also show them in the operating budget of water and sewer but it's just for transparency purposes. I wouldn't call it the operating portion of the budget. Portion of the budget, yeah. To the debt service portion. Yeah. But okay, so they're non-MWRA and they're just funded club and retained earnings and so from the. From the condoms. Okay. Thank you. John, it is keeping track of the numbers. So I asked earlier about the 4.6, the 4.6 million, the other that was primarily public work. Is that 4.6 million here on this slide as well? And I'm just wondering if you're like basically like the first four lines, like 1.5? Um, it's water sewer, the water sewer line, a portion of highway and a portion of the half of the administration. So the 4.6 is kind of subset of that 7.7 million. I mean that we don't have to get it back. But yeah, I'm getting that. Got it. And actually real quick follow-up on that. The debt service on, you know, whatever the 4.6 million, you know, I guess the 7.7 the debt service on that, does that go through the DBW budget? The water sewer, you know, there's no water sewer budget. But that means a non-water sewer. Yeah, like, yeah. And again, I see 2.9 of the water sewer, but I assume there's a good chunk that is not water. So does that debt service go through the DBW's budget? I'm just curious because it doesn't go through your budget. So it shows us those previously bonded and it's capital. Yeah, it was in the capital plans previously bonded. Previous. So it comes through as an expense, but it doesn't get it. We bundle all of the prior issued exempt and non-exempt debt. We have those as their own lines within the plan. So it comes through as like prior non-exempt debt service. It's kind of painting those notes. Correct. Correct. And then anything that we buy in this plan shows up in the line labeled new non-exempt debt service. Yeah, but I feel like the DBW expenses do go through your budget. If you guys are paying the debt service, then you're paying for it, right? They go through our budget. They're not in a separate DBW budget, which is what I thought we were answering. I mean, we didn't ask for it through. Yeah, so we're putting it. So the 4617, which was DBW, and you're showing, well, like, what's the capital expenditure for the capital planning? And then you had a current expense for the capital planning, then you had other. And the other was 4.6 million. And I said, so those are capital expenses, but generally their DBW did not go through your committee. I probably didn't ask it clear. And you guys said, yes. But now, and I'm learning, but now it sounds like you guys actually do pay the debt service on that, on those lines. Yeah, anything. You have some other funded things. So if you look at the page 19, slide 19, under public works, which is the top row there, you see different funding categories, bond, cash, and other. So there's about 1.1 million of FY25 expenses that we're planning to issue bonds for. And it will be paid for under the line that's labeled new non-exempt debt circus in the capital budget, in future years capital budgets. So that's how you can see where that money comes from. There's cash, which is paid for in this year's capital budget. And there's other, which is paid by some source outside the capital budget. In this case, the Water Suicide Super Enterprise Fund is in the majority of it. The DDP grant is another chunk of it, but the anticipated DDP grant. Yeah. So of the 4.5, 750 is the half of the total. So we expect a grant for. There's 10 grand for headstone cleaning, which comes from the cemetery. There's 760 in roadway. There's 125 in the roadway. 760 in the city. And then the 2.9 that's public, that's water and sewer, 450 for grant and rehab. That comes from the enterprise fund, 50 grand that comes from the enterprise fund for hydrant, valve, hydrant and valve replacement. 900 that someone previously referenced for the sewer system rehab. 1.5 for water, and those are both. Those in Dorei, the last one. So there's, it's not bonded, it's other funding. Yep, knowledge here. So the other is truly other like really good place. They're not just part of the military. Thank you very much. All right. High school. Okay. Our other massive building project in town, the Arlington High School, which I'm happy to report is on time right now and on budget right now. Phase 2 of this, which was sort of the central spine, which is like the big middle section of the school along with sort of a bunch of other peripheral buildings. Sort of a major portion of the project completed in December, 2023 and it's open and functioning now. It's fantastic. If you haven't been there, I would encourage you all to go visit it. It's beautiful. Currently working on demolition and sort of staging for construction for the athletic wing, which is taking place this year, calendar year 2024. And then fields, so athletic fields and that's that. Yep. Fields and sort of finished site work will be taking place in 2025. Yeah. So moving right along. There's a very robust process surrounding that because it's an MSBA project. There's a school building committee and a number of rather involved subcommittees that are managing that project at a bunch of different levels. How could I deal with any questions on this one? Any questions on this one? So the picture you just held up, the one that the very oldest gentleman is thinking about. But the other two buildings from the 70s, I think that are close to the athletic thing, those are going to come down. Yes. So they're part of the athletic that's like this year. Yeah. So you think of the high schools being everything H. There's one bar of the age that's not there yet. That's the part that's the big hole in the ground that's going to be the athletic wing. And then these old building here will become fields because basically the entire high school sort of marched forward towards the street and lost some lawn and the space in the back can't work field. Which is great because that's also a fun plan. Oh, that's nice to me for the fields. Any no questions on my school? All right. All right. I'm starting to represent our biggest customer, the school department. I'm going to try to be convincing and hopefully you'll endorse it for the kids. Even when I tell you that we plan on spending around $4.6 million, let's put it 25, and around $12 million over the course of the next five years. Most projects are funded with that because they relate to building innovation and upgrades. And our largest projects in this plan are Bishop and Haughty for approximately $7 million. Bishop, we plan on spending $2.8 million in 24 the current year and fiscal year 25. We've already appropriated 1.6 for the roof replacement and fiscal year 24. We have the design complete and it is scheduled to go to bed this month. We're going to need $500,000 for envelope repairs to resolve the water penetration. We've completed a visual survey. The work is scheduled to start in April. And this is because we have active leaks and damaged doors that will be sealing of the windows, replacing the frames, glazing the windows, replacing doors. Once we've done with the roof replacement, we would like to have solar arrays. The cost is $348,000. The useful life is 20 years. And we hope to have a payback of seven years. This payback is realized via rebates and also energy savings from monthly bills. The school department would also like to have a reconfiguration of the front office. Their initial request was $500,000, but we brought it down to $350,000. We requested to adjust the scope. They want to add two offices. One for the assistant principal who is currently working from a closet and also a social worker. These people need space for confidential meetings. This is a lot of work and would involve moving the walls, the PA system, the electrical plumbing, and IT wiring, and so on. It also, it will also invent in CAHMS, help me out with this word, the vestibules, vestibules, security, and they will be able to lock someone in in case they have an emergency. Then moving on to Hadi, this is a bigger project. We need around $4 million between fiscal year 23 and fiscal year 26. We've already appropriated in fiscal year 23, $400,000 for the roof replacement, but the bids came back really high, so we're going to need another $600,000 in fiscal year 25. The design work is complete and is going to go to bid this month. The envelope repairs, this is a much larger scope than the bishop. It's going to cost us $2.2 million for windows and masonry. They completed the visual design. We don't have the written design yet. This project is really going to replace almost all the windows and the doors at this school and also the external part of roof parapets. They will replace the broken bricks, repoint and waterproof. Finally, when we're done with the roof, we would like to install solar arrays. The payback for this ones are six years and the useful life is the same as the other ones, 20 years. Any questions, Carolyn? Does anyone know when the last time the windows were replaced? The party? Yeah. The party was last going to be in 2001. On the hearty school, it says on the top $4 million, and as I add up, I add up to $3.5 million, which is $600,000 this year itself. Did I add one? I have three point eights. I have three point fours. Let's add it. I'm not good with numbers. We're talking in the spreadsheet. Tell me if you have a good number to be on the spreadsheet. You mentioned the HVAC at some point. Does this include anything in either of these schools? I'll get to the HVACs and RPEs. That can move on. Keep going. During this pride, I've learned that since I'm not good with numbers, I should move into the HVAC. They're so expensive. I don't tell you with a little concern. So we plan on replacing rooftop units, RTUs. This is part of the HVAC. So the HVAC has AC, ventilation, and teeth. The rooftop units have some of the compressor, the coils, and the fan in a box outside the building. They're roughly $150,000 per RTU. We plan on changing the RTUs of five schools. Hardy alone needs 11 RTUs. This looks like a lot of money, but believe it or not, we still have, in addition to this 1.4, we've also appropriated about 1.3 from ARPA in fiscal year 24. So it adds up a lot from the HVACs. The elevators need to be replaced. We have to replace four elevators. They're at the end of life, and some of them are beyond the life expectancies. We don't have parts for them anymore. So we cannot fix them. We just have to replace the whole unit. And the facilities director thinks that they're going to fill the stadiums section. So these are a must. If there are one elevator per school. One at Pierce and one at Dallin. Oh, I don't know. In each school, I have no idea. I have no friends. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's 250 each. And how many? Dallin is... One at Pierce. So in fiscal year 26, we're going to replace Pierce and Dallin. $500,000 to 50 each. And in fiscal year 28, we'll replace Hardy and Stratton. At 250 each. Pierce is three stories. Dallin is two. Hardy is three. Is this a safety issue? Yes. It'd be an FY25 expense rather than a 26 expense. He said that he can suck up some life out of it. Okay. Yeah. Let's pull that. We pushed that because they came with a big list. Questions? And so the RQUs on the schools, are those buildings electrified or not electrified? Yeah. They're not. So you're replacing those that are feeding fossil fuel system, a non-electric fossil fuel system. Correct. Correct. And what would it cost to instead of just... Is a rough number for electrifying whole schools around $10 million to school? How about just electrifying the people of the coin? Yeah. I think it's a pretty big portion of that tendering. So we really need to do this because we're not doing this. We're not doing this. Well, we can't afford to do the $10 million projects. And so this is a way to keep our students comfortable. Get the $10 million build over? That's kind of the arena that we're looking at. Josh. Thanks for the follow-up on my other question. I didn't think the schools were generally air conditioned, are they? I can clear it's the media center or... Some are. They want to put AC. They're going to put AC at Thompson. Like all the classrooms and everything. Have Kefti. Do not all the classrooms. Kefti or things like that. There are some schools that have some schools. Lots of, for example, bacteria to have. That's what we're going to be up with. And I kind of asked them less than 15 years ago when they were rebuilding. It seemed like it would be more and more during the school year. Would we think about fighting the bullet match that's going to cost, you know, become as much as the next 10 years? By fighting the bullet. I mean, electrifying the school. Well, I don't know. I just think again, like if we'd done it 15 years ago when we rebuilt the school, it probably would have added a million dollars to $620 price tag provision. Now it's going to add $10 million. And if we wait another five to 10 years, it's going to add $29 million. I mean, I have no idea. I'm just not going to be curious. It seems like it could be on the horizon on one of the roads. It's such a big project that it really doesn't fit in a capital plan. So we would have to figure out, you know, especially if we're going to march through all the schools electrifying them. How is that going to be funded? So the facility center, Rob's understanding, just this quarter of the year as well, was that the ARPA money was used to study the issue, right? And then to see how much it's going to cost to be able to add it all to the school and what that looks like and what's the difference between electrification versus non-SEC sound, right? It was we had an allocation from the ARPA to do the design for this impact at the schools, but we both so had appropriations for, from ARPA for Thompson. Okay, so we don't have to talk about it anymore. Right, yeah, yes, yes, yes, for each school. So that was additional. So ARPA carried a portion of the cost and a capital carries a portion. Yes. And now we're discussing only whatever the capital carries. Keep going. Yeah. Okay, Bobby. I'll go back one. Yeah, we're going to finish the rest. We'll miss it. Okay. Oh, yeah, okay. The Stratton, they need to do the lobby reconfiguration at Stratton. I know that this is a relatively new school, but the school added new positions. Same thing, they need two offices for the assistant principal and for the social worker because they have confidential meetings, especially the social worker needs privacy to discuss IEP plans. There's actually even legal documents when it comes to IEP. So this is necessary to add additional space. They plan on reconfiguring the lobby, the workroom where they have the printers and also the waiting room for the nurse. And Gibbs additional classrooms, this is $350,000. We appropriated last year $100,000 and they need an additional $250,000 this year. They want to convert the mezzanine into three classrooms. Right now they teach classes in an open space and they need to accommodate the fluctuating waves of kids. So they need additional classrooms. They have to be ADA compliance. So they have to, it's a complex project. That's why it came up a lot more because they have to move the wheelchair elevator and add extra stairs next to the elevator to be per the code, per ADA code. They also going to have to do HVAC changes in all other auxiliary adjustments like wire, fire, glomming, BA and so on. Where should some of it? Karen? As the Capital Planning Committee had a serious discussion with the school department over there, demographic projections for the next five or 10 years. My recollection is that our student population is just about at its peak and it's going down and the drop in population is going to hit the grade schools before it hits the higher, I mean hit the lower elementary classes before it hits the high school. And this is talking about expanding classrooms and making investments in these schools which maybe in five years they're not going to need. I'm just asking about how much the demographics have been examined by the Capital Planning Committee. I understand that the peak in the Python, the bulge is hitting GIVs and that's why we need these additional classrooms now. Because there's only one... You all get them now. And then I couldn't be ready for two years, three years. This is the only school that has sixth grade, right? Because all the sixth grade kids go into that room. So this was based on their study. They anticipated that they're going to have a wave of students that need to be accommodated at that school. But what's going to happen beyond this, that? We don't know, but when the kids show up to work, I guess they need classrooms to show up to school. They need to get classrooms. That might be a tiny question. Whether these classrooms will be ready in time for those kids. Yeah, I mean there are other solutions that you can have here. Sure, I just haven't looked at them. I know that the demographics that I saw are full... There's a couple of different projections, but they're all going down. And generally speaking, the colleges go up into the higher grades and then lower grades down below properly. And then that sort of rolls through the whole school system. So I'm just asking the question, whether these have been examined? Challenged, in other words. Were they? Examine is the point. We didn't necessarily challenge them. We assumed that the data they're giving us is accurate. We didn't audit it. But I can do that. We can have a discussion and find out if it's really going to be an influx of kids. We're not qualified to challenge their demographic projections. But they gave you demographic objections. We have certain that there's a bullet coming to get to school and then the timing of that bullet is why we have to address it with these visual classrooms. And I do believe in the same thing, there are different projections for that. That bullet will roll on through. We will hit... This will hit AHS in the meantime, or the drop coming in the lower grades of the elementary schools. So looking at it right now. So I would say this. The school administration is acutely aware of the concerns of regarding school projections. And I know Josh has been to more of that mediums than I have. But they get it, right? Like, they're not going to show up. Like, I get good when they come to their budget meeting. They're not going to show up with nothing. I mean, I think they've dedicated multiple pages to their budget report, that's here to talk about demographic. So they get it. From what I understand, these have a focus on community matters. Recently is a challenge with GAMS, I think they have a big reference, is it's a single grade building, right? So like what happens is in elementary schools is if you have a class, let's say you have a third grade, a fourth grade class that has three sections and a fifth grade class that has four sections, or I should say third grade has four, fifth grade has three, just go three, four, three, four, three, four. You can kind of move the kids around, right? You can, you know, this row of seven classrooms is going to be four for fifth grade and three for fourth grade. And the next year we're going to flip it, right? And we're just bouncing back for it. Challenge your range with the GAMS. Can't do that. It's one, six grade. So you can have a class of 400 children, a class of 400 children, a class of 400 children, and a class of 600 children. That's wildly made up by the way. But you can't, you have to deal with that one year it's there. And that's what they've been on saying, that years that they have stress on is they have no way to load balance those kids that are coming for it. So that's the challenge as they talk about it. Just a comment on projecting these things with, we don't know yet the impact of the MDTA Communities Act and potentially other zoning changes to increase the town's density. So I guess I don't put a lot of credibility on the projections further about a couple of years. We could have serious growth if we have no idea. At this point is a near term problem. So, right. Right. It's probably going to be accurate. Like ground. That's where you can. All right. So the school needs $880,000 to do a complete over haul to the bracket playground. We allocated $80,000 and fiscal year 23. And we're asking for another $800,000 and fiscal year 25. The project is in the design phase. This is the playground where we had an injury reported back in 2021, I believe 22. And they plan on replacing the equipment. Replace the wood chips with rubber and upgrade the basketball court. The project is in design and it's planned. It's scheduled to start this summer. Any questions? Caroline and Al Jones. Thank you. When was this playground done? It's when the bracket was renovated last time. Bracket was about to be renovated in 2000. Okay. A question right across the street. We're spending $1.4 million for a new playground. I spent a lot of time up at Robin's Farm and during school hours, the bracket playground is really full. There's nobody at Robin's Farm. And then out of school hours, Robin's Farm is full. There's nobody in the bracket playground. I was just wondering what you were talking about. Like moldy use of one big playground. And just to add to that, I went to the bracket school and we didn't have a playground on site when I was a kid. So we went across the street every day. Yeah, I mean, you have to cross the street. But that's not going to happen. I didn't plan it for the right year. Has there been thought about that? I know there's been talk about it. Of course, our playgrounds are sort of a weird animal because some belong to the school and some belong to the town. Yeah, but let's not play paperwork. But I think the town is not necessarily willing to exclude citizens from the playground in order for the school to take it over. So I think there's been some question about, you know, we really want to have a situation where we mix kids from school hours. There's nobody in the playground because the kids are in school. Younger kids in this case. Very few. Well, I spent a lot of time. Yeah, I think the problem has been the question of, you know, how wouldn't you exclude the public from that now school playground? I don't know if they didn't come to the conclusion. Well, we exclude them in a bracket playground. Right. We don't want them to take to get in the way of saving a million bucks. It sounds like there was discussion. There was a discussion that was rejected. Yeah, it was rejected. So maybe that's a million dollars. We wouldn't write 180,000. We wouldn't necessarily have to spend. Or could spend it on something else. Where's that looked? Okay. I think I would just like to suggest that in modern era, having as educated playground closer to the school building, particularly on the condition and state and security issues. You know, it's in the Robin's farm playground. If I were a parent of a great school child, in 2024, I would not want my child that far from the ability to get into a room under current circumstances. So when I went to bracket, we had three pedophiles living within the school. When you went to the bracket, they'll see pedophiles being on the air with the child. Yeah, sorry. Do you have a question? Have you checked? Have you checked? They didn't make the AR-15. It's not bad. No. You check to see if they have them now. All right. Moving on. Moving on. Let's move on to the facility. Yeah. All right. So we're going to shift gears here. And look at facilities. So the Robin's library, we're looking to do a, sort of from the main entryway plaza. There's stairs there. They're granite slides and they're in disarray. They're heaved and out of alignment with each other and tripping hazards. Looking to do, so a full plaza renovation there to the tune of $725,000. Town hall renovations. This is something that we request annually at $75,000. This will be dedicated to our roof and clock tower issues. But there is a massive needed town hall for work. I don't know if there would ever be an appetite to fund that on some sort of an exclusion, but the general needs are very high at town hall also. And then the DBW at the building, something that was value engineered out, is a dust collection vacuum system and maintenance shop. So facilities is requesting that. The various school projects, those have all been covered, but these are all the facilities department is sort of going to be managing the FY 25. I want to sort of put a premium on our facilities department. They're relatively low down, but it's about $203.5 million for 25 projects. So maybe we'll go to the next page and then we'll take questions on these. All right. Fire station can replacements in FY 26. We're looking to do mechanical, so that's like HVAC at headquarters. Water grouping also at headquarters in FY 26. That's kind of a larger combined project. And then in Highland, a mechanical system replacement FY 27. And then other these are things we sort of touched on a couple of these is the community safety building and elevator replacement in 27. That elevator will be 21 years old. The library storefront doors. So sort of a second part of the Plaza project is replacing the doors doing that in FY 27. And then already a solar arrays there in FY 26. Let's get on the facilities. So a couple of small questions. One is why is the party school solar right down here rather than up here? And there's projects. Yeah, I'm not sure why we're going to hear versus future years. Oh, okay. I think that was value engineer that are the shades and I think we're going to appreciate those. And there was just sun streaming in. And for the main conference room. But and third just a question. Where does the renovation of bathrooms and Robin. Is that this year next year? That's this year, but it's being funded out of CPA money. Oh, yeah, that is happening. CBG. Yeah, sorry. So, okay. Yeah, so I'm three areas of certain one town hall. When we get our budget reviews over there department heads, I mean, the slum boards office, right? The government is in need of repair. I'm a bit confused. I mean, you all. I mean, I mean, I'm not sure if we're going to be able to work there and see it. How, how we let it get to this without insisting that. And I understand asking for department heads. To come with projects, but is there any proactive. Of course. That says no, you need to do more than what you're asking for. Yes. So, so the. The general awareness of the need is high. Our town manager ran our facilities department for a while and sort of an intern basis and he's. So there was a certified contractor very sort of aware of these kinds of issues and how to feel about. It's going to be a hugely extensive job to fix. So I don't know if. I don't know why the requests have not come in the past. I don't know that I can't do that, but it is on our radar looking at the future and probably coming next year, the year after, for some envelope work. So. In the past, we used to allocate $100,000 every year for town hall and because of budgetary constraints, we've brought it down to 75 when in reality, we need triple more than triple. So, looking to see. Funds. One idea that we're considering is. Preservation. And then sort of along those lines, I mean, I do worry about Audison and what seems to me in the past couple of years and hearing this decision of not spending money on Audison. Because it'll eventually be rebuilt, but I feel like that's strong arming. When putting it in a situation. It's not that we aren't spending any money, we're being selected. But. I don't think we're creating a position, creating a position that already exists. Okay. And then my third area is a concern that came up when the libraries were here and talking about Fox library and sort of knowledge in 2015 to 2018 when plans were made that. There were lots of being non-compliant issues and that nothing was done really. Since then to fix those, is there any proactive. Or worse amongst you to sort of. Or some maybe a confines issues I see later in the presentation. You are doing a hundred thousand, I guess in. A. The The cost is not a. But they plan on building a new. Right. But it has 10 years. Yeah. So the whole was to. There's a. You know, there has been a town like 88 survey. Try to identify needs. And we've been slowly plugging our way through that. But it's slow process. And there's a lot of. Yeah. Just briefly, I'll let go. So if you could start off the time following. This when I was leaving the treasurer. You mentioned. One of the staff there, their workspace had got completely trashed. But. So in the ranking. That's. And it's acceptable. And again, the last year that they look for 385,000. I don't want to be this year. And then the total budget is 10 million. That's the right scale. Put down all. Yeah. I think it's much better than that. Well, for the envelope work for envelope work. Yeah. Great. We're building the whole. Great. But we're just going to get it out to you anymore. Yeah. That's fine. That's fine. Okay. Okay. Dave. Just a little historical. Many years ago, they had a position for properties. Director of properties and naturalization. And that position was eliminated. As a result of proposition two and a half. And as a result of that position being eliminated for a number of years. The maintenance of all our town buildings. Took a real major hit. Including the town hall. And if something had to come up, it was piecemeal, band-aid approach. Until. They brought back the bottom of. So. Facilities. And there was a pretty good gap of years. I remember when I was on the school committee. Fellow on the school committee, I feel carry type on saying. We're going to pay the price for this down the road. We don't maintain our buildings. Just want that. Yeah. The fire station that work that you're talking about here. Did you say the central station? But there's a picture of. Yeah. It's a representative picture. Yeah. Yeah. 10 years ago. Longer than that. Yeah. How long ago. 10 years ago. So. We have to, how much are we spending here in central. The fire station that work that you're talking about here. Did you say the central station but the picture of part. Yeah. How much are we spending here in the central? About 500 K. The mechanical system? Mechanical and water proofing. Correct. The water proofing is like 10 years. Water proofing last 10 years? Yeah. That's so amazing. Then it says that the high school is going to be leaking in 10 years. I'm just asking the questions. I'm not sure about what it should be like. I think it should be less than longer than that. And if we're flooding these contracts out and winding up with inferior work, it's costing us a lot. Also, I'm not disagreeing that the town hall needs work. But $75,000 a year for the next five years. That looks to me like operating maintenance costs, not capital costs. And I don't understand why I send a capital budget and not as an operating cost and maintenance budget. The plan for that money is for it to be identified to the actual projects that are big enough to be capital. So it's not supposed to be replacing doorknobs or anything like that. But that five years worth of actually identified projects that you've seen in a plan? Not yet. What we've done for that. Why are we looking for it? Well, we had a choice to not include them at all. And just, you know, say, we think it only takes 75 pay this year because these are the ones this is where we know we're going to spend money. And that seemed like it wasn't really straightforward at all, because we know that it's going to be bathrooms here and colds and rooms and who knows what else going on. So we try to make, yes, it's something reasonable. And then for every year, when we get to the actual budget year, we make sure that we're talking about projects that are capital. But that's been our approach to that and a few other issues. Okay, so we're going to do a chemical system replacement at. Highland or center or no center of town. About 1 and 26 and 1 and 27. And is that a complete replacement of the HVAC systems? I think it is not a complete, I don't think it does interior, so I'm not positive. Well, once again, I'm asking, are we putting any components in the cast here, or are we just. I'm not certain. Okay, I'd really like to know, I'd really like if we have the ability to move to like the left, right? Great. Yeah. So just another quick hit to the local. So there's a lot of beautiful. The honestly has been problematic of constructions or problematic site with this construction. And since before I went to the school. And, and it's also built on a for it, correct. And so, taking up more between literally before in the grant. Just so that everybody. Definitely. So you said about 20 minutes left. So. It's a new and people can focus their, their questions. So if you finish up tonight. Sure. Next, recreation, which I'll bring out of also for the kids. Again, I'll, I'll actually start with a note in the bottom left, which is that about earlier. The sort of funding, which is what, which is paid for a thing for a lot of playground work over the last few years is now all done. So we're back to paying for playgrounds and fields through the capital plan or or some cases CPA. So. Where we are today for, or for FY 25 is 1 major project, which is parallel part. Those who don't know it's that's on the other side pretty much of the cemeteries. Right where this valley parkway and that's for street intersect has a playground that was closed by the DCR because they actually own the underlying land. A few years ago, and so it really needs to be replaced. Well, the basketball court closer to the intersection for the rotary. So that's the sort of major park project. As right now, there are no other major park projects in the, in the 5 year plan. At least for this as opposed to CPA. And what they're proposing to do in FY 26 and 28 to master plan and one for fields. Any other for playgrounds sort of figure out kind of what our future needs to hold for, you know, work on playgrounds. One thing we have heard. So the question earlier about school playgrounds is that, you know, this is a very controversial thing to say out loud is that perhaps. We can't afford to or don't have to need to have as many playgrounds as we have. And so that's going to be part of what that's going to look at. And then field part will be looking obviously at, you know, sort of athletic field needs across the town. And the bottom right is a picture of the herd field project was completed with capital funds in the past. They have 3 things they do every year. They're sort of continuing expenditures. One is a study implementation plan. So that's improving the accessibility of our parks and playgrounds, feasibility study, which they basically use to plan out future projects. Those small and large scale projects and sort of figure out scope schedule and budget for those so that they actually when they do come to us with a request. They have a good sense of what the cost will be. And then something that was added more recently, which is the playground audit. It's the improvements, which is making sort of smaller, but still capital eligible repairs to playground when a piece of equipment breaks and needs to be replaced. That becomes the source of funding for that. Yes, so that they have the flexibility to respond to those kinds of capital repairs that are smaller. Yeah. Questions. Charlie. Thank you. Why do we need this ABA planning budget every year and the feasibility study of the year. We're going to do these master plans. So the ABA study implementation plan is really is building out the ABA improvements that were recommended from a study that was done several years ago. So that is actually building, you know, pathways for FY 25. They're planning and using it to create or to figure out a plan for accessible parking at the new universal playgrounds being built around this farm park, as we referred to earlier. So that really is implementation. We did ask that question for the playground feasibility study and I think for future years, there is a possibility that that may get pulled back. But yeah, I think it's a valid point that as they do these master plans that need the next few years for these kinds of feasibility studies may go down because they'll be broader range of questions. Second question is for a second comment is that. You know, I think, and I don't know who else to direct this to is I'm directing to the capital planning committee and perhaps the deputy town manager, but somebody's been going around town closing playgrounds. And the playground at the non-Yorks Park has been closed for whatever reasons, allegedly because it was majors or whatever. I was involved in having a professional engineer review it before it was shut down and minor maintenance could have kept that playground open. And I know there are two playgrounds closed at Thompson School. Same, same story is probably going on there. I said, so, you know, the children of the town are being held hostage to, I don't know, consulting firm for some, some jihadists on the commission committee. We need to have some rationale, fashionality slide, how we expand these large amount of funds at the same time the private citizens of service. It doesn't make sense. I have a conversation with the facility director. He actually sent me a report on Thompson. They actually closed it because of safety concerns, and that's why we have $404,000 budgeted for Thompson. But have we looked at what could be done for maintenance instead of $400,000? He needs to replace the whole equipment because probably, I don't know if it's in light of what happened with a bracket, but they said it's not safe and they actually have a whole report. We cannot challenge the architects report or the engineer report. We don't have the expertise, at least the facilities director accepted it as valid. And I guess what I would say is that's that was part of the origin of the $75,000 year line item was to be able to hopefully more proactively make some of those types of capital repairs before it turns into a closure or respond to closure. I don't think we've caught up with some of the past, you know, problems and obviously the Thompson is a school playground. Thank you. Anybody can change this so that when something quote unquote breaks or becomes quote unquote unsafe playgrounds that it can be repaired rather than have the playground closed and this is kind of crazy. Yeah, my response to him was our 10 year olds allowed to break their arms at the playground anymore. It's not an entire playground because somebody hurt themselves. That's insane. Well, I think that the $75,000 is to help head off some of these issues where like we have a broken piece of equipment. Maybe if we have a poor missing and somebody falls and breaks their arms different than if somebody just slips off like, you know, like monkey bars and like that right and so if we are. If it's our if we're at risk of being sued because we have something that's broken and that is why we do that now as opposed to it's your own fault. Let's go get it fixed. Right. So it's very fixing playground improvements very difficult because it's often like very good equipment. They like don't make it anymore. It's sort of a weird industry and it would be great if somebody could make more off the shelf components for it, but that's not the business model that most of these. I think some of these questions are. Maybe appropriately addressed director facilities. So that's conversation each might have with him it. And then make a case next year from moving this slide up and we'll be back. So in the interest of time, I'm just going to go through this quickly. The bulk of these are various infrastructure upgrade. Network computers, software and so on. The one I want to call out is the modernized agenda than in its application. So that's an application that's used by. Several key agencies to be able to post plans. Drawings and other large and complex files and if you I was looking for examples and if you go to the select board and look at their agenda page. There's, you can understand why they would need something like this to the post to cars, which is relatively close to work of no fester post a word document and minutes and things. So this seemed like a legitimate expense sort of 70,000 and fiscal 25, especially some of the vendor. So unless there's any questions. We'll stipulate and this really is the most important slide on the back. I'm done. So are we replacing know this. Yes. Yeah, it's, but it's the same complex of Granicus owns know this. Okay. They have other products that they're offering. Right. There's some saying that's we're shopping around at looking at what, what else is out there. Any other questions for it. All right. Okay, thank you. And now on to me taking results kids. We only have two items in the fire department's 25 capital budget versus 39 K for their turnout year. It's a five year cycle. 16 units per year at about $2,500. So there we have the amount includes the coat, the pants, the boots and the hood as shown here we have the coat. The second piece is the 17 K for a staff vehicle placement. This is an 11. This will be at the next year will be an 11 year old. For interceptor. So it's at its useful life and and new car. That's all for 25. And yeah, here you'll see eight vehicles, including five staff vehicles of the Dan actually pick up Friday. It's going to be on October. A ladder and ambulance is going to be an expensive five years for vehicles for fire departments. Also some equipment. There's life. There's a recap right and there's an equipment for fire. That's good. Excellent. Please. Police department only two and also in 25 and the annual. 150 K for people placement, which is typically three vehicles. In 25, the department plans on buying two marked and one unmarked. Car there is currently and they are doing hybrid whenever there is sufficient production to acquire. No. And the reason the interest of time, I'll say quickly. The vehicles are being used 24 seven. It's hard to fully charge that the vehicle if you can't hear for parking. Second item for the police is a electric. Park overnight parking control vehicle. And then it's covered out of the apartment fund actually. It's in other excess. There will be additional need for me out here as well. That's good. All right. Moving on to the grand other page 35. Let's see. Currently in this year, 24, we're paying the design and planning work for the best memorial park. If you were here last year, you'll see that this was very familiar. It was actually going to be done. So the actual. It was to be done in 2526. It's been pushed back one year. We could be 27. Total cost that is 2.65 million dollars of which town is taking in up to 895 K. And then any other funds have to come from elsewhere. So outside funds, state funds, private fundraising, etc. The materialize. We will not. Cover the rest of town. We're going to receive a grant. We're going to receive a grant for this project. Other large items we mentioned before, there's the ongoing $100,000 here for ADA upgrades. This really our architectural barriers. That's for the properties that hammer access. There is the usual 400 K of academic pieces for our students. We find about 1000 of these per year on a four to five year refresh cycle. And there's a K for our administrators, our school administrators. Chris. Alright, so back to where we started. What do we need from the funding committee? We're asking you to vote critical action on our recommended budget for this year 25. The reappropriation of unused capital funds, which I'll cover in just a minute. And to endorse the five year plan. So to cover. The sort of overall budget, this particular formulation of the budget is one of them requested over the years by the finance committee. Where we see both exempt and non exempt that service. Adding to about $20 million cash capital spending of about five. And then there is the. Access from the intent to fund capital very forward for carry forwards, which is capital projects which were finished under budget. So that money stays in capital plan. And the written enterprise funds would pay some of the debt service. So to do with those projects. So that other financing there, which is maybe a poor term because there's also the other category that we've talked about grants. That's something else. Bring this down to a net capital appropriation, including exempt that of $20. Being an outcome. Sean. I would like to move recommend folk Apple planning committee as shown on slide 37 of 42 with with a total net capital appropriation of 2969 for 35. I would like to further. Further approved the reappropriation of borrowed funds as shown on slide 38 of 42. Total amount of 405,342 dollars. And then finally, I would like to both that would like to move the finance committee doors. The capital planning committees. What did you call it again five year plan for six years. 25 to 29 25 to 29. Thank you so much. You're out there. They are. No. So, John and Rebecca have some questions. The personal control vehicle. So it's being paid for by the parking fund. The parking fund offset is a listed in that table. You can be a part of that. The table you mean change 37. Yeah. So it's a future purchase. Whereas table 37 is at 25. So we'll be there. Likely we would just listed as other funded. 25. Yeah. Oh, so it's an idea is another. Sorry. It's not an offset. It's another time towards. What's the person in town from the park. What's the difference. We can spend on. My understanding that's not fine as we collect the money. We can spend it on parks and. And recreation. So, so, but yeah, the parking fund. Where's the 32,000 come from. It comes from. It's already. Yeah. Right. Well, you've got, there's enterprise funds on that table. We have a couple of them. Yeah. What's the difference in the entire fund or enterprise fund versus. I think the other ones are listed as general offsets. And that is like. Okay. Not quite as. Yeah. John. Yeah, thank you. My question is related to the, um, the 4.9. And I think last year was 3.9 million. See a category cash capital. Um, I understand that, you know, we allocate 5% of our budget to capital expenditures. Um, but things like, the thing that kind of sticks to my head is we necessarily have to spend 5% every year. And for instance, I looked into the 3.9. I was out last year. And I think only, you know, it's 786 a bit spent so far. And I know this is a tough question for like 956, but I just wonder if, you know, could he had a column to the spreadsheet going forward or mis-considerate where you have, um, bank and save them on. Is there any mechanism where you can just say, all right, we don't really have any to spend this money on, but we know we need to spend 5% of our budget on capital each year. But we have nothing to spend it on this year. Let's just kind of bank it. We don't really have a mechanism to do that. That's not a problem. We typically have. We're trying to get rid of projects. Okay. So I look at the, again, that current year expenditures, it does seem like there's a little bit of like kind of filler in there. And again, just to support that, I said, you know, what happened to the 3.9 billion in that current spent last year, only 788 a bit has been spent. I know this. But there's also a conversation. So either Ram. And sent me that. Yeah. Several reports. So keep in mind, in the way government's spending works, we've never seen as light as the moment. Yeah. There's a lot of, whether it's getting quotes, getting procurements or with the DPW stuff, getting a lot of that at the same moment. So what you're seeing in March. Isn't necessarily really accurate. But then the, your other question about, you know, banking money, and I think really part of that, you know, there's overwhelming needs for really more than 5%. But we could do that. So the challenge seemed like there's like, we have like big expenses that would just, we have no real way to press the big expense, like town hall. But, you know, there's all sorts of 700 cage there and 600 cage there and 108 there. But there's, there's nothing like, you know, there's no $8 million. That's a dead exclusion to four. Come again. That's a dead exclusion to four. Five percent capital. That's a capital issue. What we can afford. Yeah. I just wanted to raise it. I know it's nine to seven. I wanted to raise the question. Okay. I also add that. Yes. We've spent 700,000, but we've also encumbered 5,000, 500,000. So I think we're going to use up about with all the nations. But then there's still $2,000,000 plus. That's a time. Most of it. It's going to, they're going to start to work. For example. Yeah. I just thought if you pick the pressure up of spending 5%, you know, putting 5% side is great. But you necessarily have to spend 5% and I guess that's not, That's basically the question to ask questions. question about something that's sort of missing from this plan and that is there's a separate warrant or a separate article of a warrant for using for the Fox library for the $150,000 to keep the planning for the rebuild of the Fox library. So I've sort of a two-part question which is why is that not part of the capital plan and is that something that you considered so why is the Fox library somehow weak in that it is a separate warrant article and and then the second part is if that were to go forward is there space in the five-year plan for the actual build of the Fox library? Is that something committee has called that? So the Fox library had been on our radar for a long time, so I expect the reason that there's a separate warrant article for that funding is that it's required by the mass Board of Library Commissioners from which we hope to get a grant. Which would cover 452% presumably at the cost. The exact cost is unknown at this point, that's part of what we're finding out, but should we you know decide to move forward on that library and get a bill for it so we know what we're going to spend, we'll have to figure out as a panel that that's something you want to try to fit in a capital plan or we want to do a debt exclusion or let us process with you. So there's no space already? There's no reserved space. We try not to reserve space for things that are a little too theoretical to know if we're doing it because the answer to the question is are we doing this library may depend a lot on whether we get that grant or not. Thank you. I'll pass this. Okay, three questions. On page 30 it says under other Robbins storefront doors. Now we get a lot of Robbins buildings in this town. It's not the Robbins house. The library. The library. The front door is at the left. Those are $300,000? Yeah. Okay, second question. I think Al Jones' comment was, I think, it's important in trying to simplify and be transparent to have all of the projects in one place and all of the funding sources in one place. Whether they're enterprise funds, parking funds, it wouldn't be hard to just add the cost up here and then down here have from parking fund and that way it's all in one place. So not asking you to change it now but think about that for next year. That's what we thought we were doing on slide 16. On slide 16 you'll see something that looks more like what I think you're asking for. Yeah, well this is like 15,000 from recreation, 13,000 percent benefit, and that's above the 5 percent. And my third question is, it doesn't sound like it. Do you have any rescissions or prior borrowings? No. Okay, in that case I'd like to add another motion to vote no action on Article 41 which is the rescission order. All right, so second to that. All right, I think we're ready for a vote. We have Dean's motion. We'll do that first when Alan motion second. All in favor of Dean's motion say aye. Aye. Any opposed? unanimous. Next is Al's positive motion on Article 41. Were Dean's motion supposed to be three separate ones? No. No. Okay. One joint motion. I jump. Okay. And Al's positive motion is no action on Article 41. All right. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right unanimous. Yes, Todd. I think I got a motion by the committee. I'll ask the chair to request that the town manager wasn't telling us that we have a complete analysis of the expense overruns because of the DBW program. Second. Any discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right. Thank you very much. You're welcome.