 Think Tech-A-Wai, civil engagement lives here. Welcome to the Asian Review. I'm your host, Bill Sharp. Our show today, Taiwan's Relations with Latin America, and joining us from Washington, D.C., where it's 11 o'clock at night, and we really appreciate that, is Dr. Garrett Vandeweese. He was a professor of Taiwan history at George Mason University. He also was a Taiwan fellow in Taiwan very recently, where he did three months of research on the Dutch period of Taiwan history. He's a return guest to Asian Review, and we'd like to welcome him back. Welcome, Garrett. To be on your show, thanks for inviting me. Appreciate that. Oh, no problem whatsoever. Should also mention that he's advisor to the Global Taiwan Institute, which is going to have a big seminar or conference, however you want to call it. This Wednesday in Washington, D.C., it looks like the panels for that will be really great, and wish I could go. Anyway, let's get back to Taiwan's Relations with Latin America. Well, Taiwan President Saini Nguyen recently made an official trip to Paraguay and Belize, and two diplomatic allies in Latin America. On the outbound portion of her travel from Taiwan, she made a stopover in Los Angeles. What's the significance of her stopover in LA? What did she do while she was here? How should we see it? Well, I think overall, we can say that the room for maneuver she has received from the U.S. on her stopovers has been significantly increased as compared to previous occasions. On previous occasions, she was basically told to keep a low profile, not talk to the press, not have public speeches, but this time around, those restrictions have been dropped, and we hope that they continue to be dropped for future occasions. She was able to give a public speech right in front of the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library, where she did quote the former president, who after his 1986 rectific meeting with Russian leader Gorbachev said, everything is negotiable except our freedom and our future. And of course, for her, that does apply to the Taiwan situation, where she has tried to portray a flexible image on the one side, but on the other side has been very firm on Taiwan's sovereignty, freedom, and the ability of the people in Taiwan to determine their own future. So that was really a high point of the event, of the visit. And she was also able to number of members of the U.S. Congress, including Brad Sherman, who is the Comedian Asia Pacific, and able to meet with Corey Gardner, who is the chair of the Comedian Asia Pacific, and he especially flew to Los Angeles to meet with her. So I think that is quite significant that she was able to have these high level contacts with people in the U.S. Congress, that she was able to speak at a public event, and that the Taiwanese press was able to follow her around and write about her experiences in Los Angeles. That's great. I remember she also met with House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Royce, who's a longtime supporter of Taiwan. Yeah, indeed Royce was also there, has been incredibly supportive of, and this is important because he is the chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, and statements saying that as a strong defender of the U.S.-Taiwan relationship, I will continue to work to make our partnership even stronger, and a prosperous Taiwan is good for the people of Taiwan, but also good for stability of the Asia Pacific region, and also good for U.S. national security. So he brought that in also. It's not just for Taiwan that we are talking, but it's also for U.S. interests in the region. That's really good. That's worth its weight in gold. She did have one little incident in Los Angeles. She visited a well-known coffee shop, which is Taiwan-owned, and then the main land was very upset about that. From the Chinese side, this is a coffee shop, 85-degree bakery, which is a very popped chain, which has branches in the U.S. and in China. And she just dropped in to have a nice little chat with the people in the shop, and she signed a pillow for one of the workers there. But after this visit became public, all hell broke loose, and Chinese netizens basically were in an orchestrated hateful harassment campaign, lambasting the coffee chain, and threatening to boycott its establishments in China. So the coffee chain, a couple days later, issued a big statement that they declared to support one China, which is incredibly silly of Beijing to do it this way because it really estranges people in Taiwan, people in Taiwan feel offended, people in Taiwan feel hurt. And this really doesn't do a positive image of Beijing in Taiwan. And that's basically what Beijing should try to strive for, to have a better image among the populace, but they do basically things that run in the opposite direction. Yeah, it does seem that China's voice is becoming more sonorous and lambasting, no matter what the issue is. We demand, we demand very, very sonorous statements coming forward from China, not only related to Taiwan issues, but also sometimes aimed at the United States, sometimes aimed at other countries. China is really filling its oats. Productive effect in Taiwan itself, of course, but you also see that here in the United States, where the general populace feels a lot more unhappy about the moves that China is making, whether it is copyright issues, whether it is stealing technology or repression of its own people, people in Tibet, people in East Pakistan. Right. Well, let's move on to Paraguay. After all this, she, Los Angeles, she headed to Paraguay. And Paraguay is a country that has, to me, kind of a unique history with Taiwan. Maybe you could talk a little bit about that. Yeah, well, at this point, they are the only remaining diplomatic ally in, and they have decades. I remember in the 90s, I was in a panel discussion with, say, somebody from Paraguay, and they were very, very supportive of Taiwan. So that has continued, and China has not been able to make any inroads there. I understand. The fact that— Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off. But I've never been to Paraguay, but I understand they have streets named after John Kaishak. Many buildings in Paraguay have been built with—and I believe the parliament building—I could be wrong about that—was built with Taiwan aid. Taiwan has invested a lot of time, energy, and money into its relationship with Paraguay. Well, I think it's also important that the new government, the newly elected president, Mario Habdes Benitez, invited President Tsai Ing-wen to come to his inauguration. That really shows that this is a continuous thing, and it's not dependent on which government is in power. So that is, I think, very positive. And of course, it does help that Taiwan has a number of development aid projects there. But they have used that wisely and not thrown it around. Basically, China is doing—they are putting a lot of money into a number of projects in a number of countries in projects that are totally economically unfiable. So this is really something that Taiwan has been doing quite well over the past few years. And hopefully that will be a factor in the continuing relations with those countries. That's an interesting assessment. I remember some years ago when the United States was having beef issues with Taiwan, Paraguay didn't seem to have any problem. They could get their beef exports into Taiwan, no problem at all. Well, from Paraguay, she went on to Belize, used to be called British Honduras, way back when. And what activities did she carry out then? There. Well, there, again, she had high-level meetings with the top leaders in the government. She was decorated, actually, by Governor General Colville Young. Belize is still under the—Queen of England is still formerly the head of state and represented by Governor General. And she met with Prime Minister Dean Barrow. She addressed the Belizean National Assembly. So all activities that really increase her profile in the country and the nation of relations with the country. And it is, again, like in the case of Paraguay, quite a long-lasting relationship. And I think that is one of the very good things that Taiwan is doing, they're investing quite a bit in terms of effort and energy and personnel in maintaining these relations. It's not just a development aid issue, but very much an issue of maintaining good relations with people up and down the governments. Good. And then from Belize, she headed back to Houston. She made another stop over there. I believe it was a 27-hour stopover. But she did something pretty significant in Houston. And what was that? It was the visit to the Johnson Space Center, the Cliddy Mission Control Center for more of the Apollo flights and the Space Shuttle flights had been directed. And she was welcomed by the WT director and given a tour of the facilities, getting their training. So they have mock-ups of the various Japanese, European, Russian and, as you know, Mike Finke accompanied her around there. And this was really the first time that had visited such a U.S. federal facility. So that was also, in a sense, a major step forward. And she met with the Taiwanese American community. It was a big banquet with some of the U.S. Congress present. And so in general, again, she was given a lot of room for maneuver, for various activities, public speeches and publicity about what she was doing. So I think overall, very positive. Good. I think we'll take a break here. We talked about her trip, her stopovers in LA and Houston, her visits to Belize and to Paraguay. When we come back, we want to talk about the events that unfolded upon her return to Taiwan. And we'll be right back in one minute. You're watching Asian and Review. I'm your host, Bill Sharp. My guest today is Dr. Garrett Van Der Wies, who's a professor of Taiwan history at George Mason University, also an advisor to the Global Taiwan Institute. Don't go away. Welcome back to Asian Review. I'm your host, Bill Sharp. Our show today is Taiwan's Relations with Latin America. And my guest joining me from Washington, D.C., where it's 11 after 11 in the evening is Dr. Garrett Van Der Wies, a professor of Taiwan history at George Mason University, and also an advisor to the Global Taiwan Institute, which is going to have a very interesting seminar this Wednesday at its headquarters in Washington. So if you happen to be in the D.C. area, you might want to check that out. OK. Sanya Wen has a successful trip to making stopovers in Los Angeles, making stopovers in Houston, meets with fairly big numbers of Taiwanese Americans, members of the U.S. Congress, members of both the Senate and the House, and visits the Johnson Space Center in Houston. She returns to Taiwan, and all of a sudden, bad news is laid before her. What was that? Garrett, are you there? Yes, Alitia. Yeah, that was the break in relations with El Salvador the day after they returned to Taiwan. And Minister Joseph Wu, the press conference, and announced that Taiwan was breaking its diplomatic relations with El Salvador. They had known for a number of, or was negotiating with China on establishing relations. And to the return, they received word that the El Salvador's foreign minister was on his way to Beijing. And that obviously meant that they were going to announce establishment of relations with China. So Taiwan was financial aid. Any idea how much that was? And basically, what they wanted to do is understand it. Do you think the timing was of the announcement of the breaking relations that is from the El Salvador side was purposely timed maybe in collusion with Beijing to embarrass Taiwan? Without that, it's more demand and decided to go ahead with that relation to the trip that Saingman did make. You know, the reason I ask is because I'm aware of some instances in Chinese diplomatic history where announcements have been purposely timed to embarrass other people. And I give you one example. When the United States announced back in 1972 that Nixon was going to Beijing, there was a Chinese insistence that nothing be made known to the public, that the Japanese in particular not be known. And so when it was announced, it was a huge embarrassment to Japan because Japan had kind of been egging to establish relations with China for some time for economic reasons. So thinking back to that, I thought, well, maybe there's still that Chinese habit of timing these announcements to embarrass others. Maybe, maybe not, you know, but we don't have any indications in that direction. I think the most interesting thing after the announcement was the Vermont almost right away, deeply disappointed by this decision by El Salvador and added that it was reviewing the relations with El Salvador following this decision. So this really had not been part of the lingo. And then a couple days later, there was a very strong statement from the White House itself. We accused El Salvador of making this decision in only months before they leave office. And this White House statement also reevaluation of the relationship with El Salvador. So this kind of statement we have not heard before. And I think that is the significance of the reaction from the U.S. government side. Well, why do you think there was that reaction on the behalf of the U.S. government? I mean, you know, other countries have broken relations with Taiwan, Burkina Faso, Gambia, South Tome, Príncipe. Cumulative effect, I think that the U.S. is starting to see that China is really trying to wiggle away and thereby changing the status quo. But the other aspect is particularly with regard to El Salvador that is really in the U.S. backyard is something the U.S. doesn't really like to see. And they emphasize that we will continue to oppose China's destabilization of the cross-strait relations. Let's explore that a little bit deeper. And political interference in the Western Hemisphere. That is the second part of it, which is quite important, I think. I want to pick up on the first part of your answer there. Well, you said, let's say Taiwan doesn't have diplomatic allies with anybody. How is that going to make the relationship, cross-strait relationship, any different than it is now? I mean, it's pretty acerbic now. Can it get worse? If you don't have any diplomatic allies, nobody is recognizing you, then you better give up on your semi-separate existence and join the motherland that's the line of argument that China is using. My sense is, okay, this is going to sound a little harsh, but the countries with which Taiwan has relations are insignificant, basically. Maybe an exception is the Vatican. They do some things for Taiwan in the UN from time to time. It seems to me the real heart of the really important relationships are with the United States, with Japan, with the European Union, with Canada. These are the relationships that really count. And although they're not official, they're very close in many cases. Well, what the Thai administration has been trying to do is maintain the status quo, and that has two parts here. One is maintaining the formal relations with the existing diplomatic allies. And on the other hand, maintain the informal, but increasingly substantial, relations with the United States, the European Union, and other democratic nations in Asia. But what we are now seeing is happening, that as China is whittling away at these formal existing diplomatic allies, this is catching the attention of the United States and the nations in Europe, and they are moving into the direction of enhancing the relations with Taiwan. As the one goes down, the other side goes up. And you see that in the statements by the U.S. administration, as I just mentioned, but even stronger in the U.S. Congress, where a number of pretty prominent people like Marco Rubio has argued in favor of upgrading relations, the chairman of the Homeland Security Committee in the House, Mr. Michael McCall from Texas, said at some point, we're going to have to recognize the independence of Taiwan. I'm going to jump in here because we only have two minutes left. In a sense, this breaking of relations might have done Taiwan some good, because it's getting more attention out of the U.S. As you said, these two members of Congress are sort of talking with the idea of officially recognizing Taiwan. Maybe there is a truce overlining. The other point that really jumps out, and you mentioned, I just kind of want to underlie it, there's a security aspect to this. When you have Chinese listening posts in Cuba, when China has flipped the Dominican Republic, there's a flipping El Salvador, you can only assume that there's going to be Chinese military interests there, and this is the soft underbelly of the U.S. One last point, and we only have 30 seconds. I'm really sorry to do this to you. There's an act brewing in Congress called the Taipei Act. Just very briefly, could you remind and inform our readers, our listeners, about the essence of that act? It's a bill. That's not an act yet. International Protection and Enhancement Initiative introduced by Corey Gardner, Marco Rubio, Ed Markey, Robert Menendez, so very bipartisan, two Republicans and two Democrats, and that is really unheard of in the present atmosphere in Washington. And this act expresses U.S. support for Taiwan's diplomatic allies around the world and mandates sanctions against those countries who break relations with Taiwan, or intend to break relations with Taiwan. Garrett, I think we're going to have to leave it here. I want to thank everybody for watching Asian Review Today. My guest has been Dr. Garrett Vanderweese, Professor of Taiwan History at George Mason University. He is a longtime follower of Taiwan and very, very informative. Next week, join us when my guest will be Mr. Sean King, Executive Vice President of Parks Strategies based in New York City. We'll see you then.