 rise up and you'll be another day to serve God. It's another day to worship God and the beauty of His holiness. How many of you are ready and expecting a miracle from God? You can come right up to the front and worship with us if you want to. Come on, put your hands together. Hands lift up your hands. Come on, sing along, sing along. Jesus, we love you. We worship you. Jesus, we honor you. We give you all the glory. We give you all the praise and we give you all the worship. Pastors, leaders, and ministers, we want to welcome you to this conference and we want to tell you we love you, we honor you, we celebrate you, and we're praying that God would refresh you, that you would go back to your churches, refresh, revive, and plowing on for the kingdom of God. Amen. Right now, we're going to be believing for the salvation of souls. If you haven't seen souls saved in your churches for a long, long time, I want you to believe God that that well would be opening your church. Amen. There was a time where we were believing as a church for double digit salvation, and we're seeing every single weekend souls being saved, but we're increasing our belief, belief for triple digit salvation. Amen. Why? Because there's people out there that still need to know Jesus Christ. And so right now, those that are in the front, if you can take two steps back, and right now I want to invite those of you that maybe you haven't seen souls saved in your church for a long time. Maybe it's been four months, six months, and then there's there's a bearing this, or something you've done to everything, you've tried everything, you cast your nets to the left to the right, and you just haven't seen that breakthrough. We want to believe God that souls will be saved in your church also. If that is you, I want to welcome you to come to the front, and we want to stand and believe in faith that as you come back to your church, that souls will be saved in your church. You know, the Bible says, ask me nations and I will give it to you. I want to challenge you. Ask for your city. Ask for your country. Ask for your state. Ask. God wants to give you souls. God wants salvation of souls to happen in your church. So if that is you come, come to the front, come to the front, come to the front. We have a whole altar here. Let's believe God that salvation of souls will happen in your church in Jesus mighty name. So right now, lift up your hands. Lift up your hands. Lift up your hands. Ask him, God, give me souls in my city. Give me that lost. Give me that broken. Give me that broken one. Give me that one that no one wants. God, I want souls to be saved in my city. Give me souls in Jesus mighty name. Yes, Father God, we pray for every single pastor right now that is crying out to you for souls, Lord. I ask you for your precious anointing to touch their churches, Lord. I ask you that you will just pour salvation upon their churches, upon their community, upon their cities in a mighty name of Jesus. I come against every spirit of barrenness that is stopping them from being fruitful, from seeing salvation, Lord. I pray that you will bring breakthrough, Lord. I pray that you will print in a mighty name of Jesus. Lord, we speak of blessing over every single pastor's wife and a pastor that is crying out for souls, Lord. I pray that you will bring that breakthrough into their churches, Lord, that they will salvation in their churches in a mighty name of Jesus. In Jesus mighty name, Father, we lift up every pastor, every city, every country right now in Jesus mighty name. Lord, open up those wells, God. Lord, we ask you for the fire of the Holy Spirit to be upon each one of them, O God. Father, I pray for souls, double digit salvation, triple digit salvation in their city, God. Father, I'm believing for their city to be saved, their country to be saved, their state to be saved. In the name of Jesus, Father, give us souls, give us souls, give us souls, give us souls. If you have your heavenly language right now, open up your lips, pray in your heavenly language. Open up your lips. Shigirorororobobo, Shigirabababa. Father, we're believing for breakthrough. We're believing for breakthrough in the spirit in Jesus mighty name, Shigirorororobo. Father, I'm not seeing one person give their life to Jesus and the cry of my heart was that we will have no services where somebody doesn't get saved. We cried for that for years. I remember I would hear of different pastors coming to Tri-Cities and minister of different churches. I would grab $20, $30 just to run to those services trying to stick it into their pocket. I was doing everything I could, sow a seed, sow what I can grow even though I don't believe in a lot of that stuff. But I, out of desperation, there was just a sheer desperation. I wanted one thing is to have no more barren altars. So pastors who are with me right now, those of you who are here, I want to let you know that you're standing in the place where God opened the womb, if I could say spiritual womb of this house. Today not only at this church where people get saved, but people get saved almost weekly, sometimes from 10 to 15 in a high school on Tuesdays. What I'm going to ask you to do right now, if you're physically able to get on your knees, and I want you to ask God right now that you're altar, because yes, you are at this altar at Hungry Gen. Ask God that your altar at your church will not be barren. Just ask for that. You just break your heart right now. Ask God for that. It is God's will. You're not pleading for something God doesn't want. This is more than about you. This is more than about church growth. This is about plundering the kingdom of hell. And so I want you to release your heart's cry to God and say Lord, for the sake of this world, Lord, we ask you. You tell us to go. We ask you right now for the supernatural grace. May it hit our house for people to be saved. May you services have many people being saved. Come on, everybody else. I want you to right now just open up your mouth, pray in the Holy Ghost, whatever that you need to do. You will remember this moment. You will have your own testimony. The same way it happened to Hungry Gen, God is no respecter of persons. God honors faith. God honors desperation. God says, call on me and I will answer you. I will show you great and mighty things. Seek me and you will find me, God says. It is the will of God that none will perish, but all will come to the knowledge of Jesus Christ. The only one who wins when people don't get saved is the devil. We don't want to play into his hands. Alters are going to be filled. Alters are going to be filled. Alters are not going to be buried. Hospital will have births. We will have births. We will have births in our churches. We will hear the cry of a baby. We're going to hear the cry of birthing. Father, we pray, God, that the anointing of the Holy Spirit will rest upon every pastor, every leader. God, as they go back to their churches, Lord, they will be casting their nets. God, Father, I pray that revival will hit their city. God, revival will hit their homes. God, revival will hit their families. God, Father, we're asking you for our cities and our nations to be saved, to be healed, to be delivered. God, give us souls. Give us souls. It's Jesus' mighty nation. Get out of the boat. We are desperate and we're crying out. Other in the name of Jesus, we prophesy to the dry land to gush with water again. We prophesy to the dry bones to live. We prophesy right now to that barren altar to have the sound, the sound of cry, cry of sinners crying out for repentance. Tears rolling down their eyes as they change from death to life, as they change from darkness to life. In Jesus' name, we break every spell. We break every dry spell over the ministry in the area of salvation. We cancel every plan of the enemy. No weapon formed against this ministry will prosper. We declare right now as pastors around their knees crying out for your reign, crying out for the dryness to come to an end, crying out to redeem the wells of revival in the church, crying out God that young people will come to know Jesus, crying out that you will God. The museum dissolving and transforming into a hospital. Then our church is here. Your church became a museum. And as we're praying, I saw the Lord switching your church's identity to a hospital. Your church is going to be a hospital. Not a museum. Let's receive that right now. Let's receive that right now. The Lord is transforming the identity of your ministry to a hospital where children will be born to God. Where saints will be deciphered in Jesus' name. Come on, let's just give the Lord a clap after him. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. You know, the Bible says that God made, if you can give me a little bit more juice, God made Abraham, Abraham before he had any children. When you receive a promise, you become a possessor of that before it ever manifests in your life, in your ministry. When you become, when you conceive, if I could use spiritually a promise from God, you begin to believe that vision. And today, as we were praying right now, I really, I feel that it produced an emotion in me. The same thing that happened many years ago when I was a youth pastor for over 12 years. And walking over here by the river and just seeing that image of kids coming running to the altar. And remember this for 12 years, it was a struggle. It was a big, big struggle. Couldn't break the 30, 40 in our youth. And it's not the numbers. It's the fact that people weren't getting saved. That's the problem. You can have a small church, but if people aren't getting saved, that is a problem. It's not God's will period, because that would mean that it's okay for God not to see people saved. And when the Holy Spirit, I would say impregnated my mind. When I saw this image, I saw this thing and it produced those feelings, produced those desires in me. And I pray that the same thing Holy Spirit is going to do here in your heart right now. He will plant a vision in your heart that you don't see your church as a museum, but you see it as a hospital. Receive that right now. Place your hand up on your heart. Say, Lord, plant this vision right now. Lord, I will receive this vision right now. Lord, that the church will not be a museum, but it will be a hospital. People will be born again. There will be a cry of sinners getting reconciled to God. Authors will not be empty. There will be births, conversions, repentance taking place in Jesus' name. Amen. Congratulations. You're becoming a church. God wants you to be winning souls and making disciples. Come on, somebody. Give somebody a high five. As you go back to your seat, I believe something was deposited in the heart today. Hallelujah. As we take our seats, we're going to watch a short trailer of our upcoming school. Do you desire to be equipped in the things of God? Do you want to discover your spiritual gifts, develop thoughts, habits, and practices of successful ministry and effective way of serving people? Hungry Gen is launching an online training program. There will be classes that we will offer, that we offer to our local church and we want to offer it to you. Whether you are a pastor, a leader, a brand new believer who actually wants to learn more and get equipped to be a soldier in God's army in these last days. For the last seven years, we have had internship where we trained young adults and teenagers in discipleship and ministry. Those programs have come to an end and we are relaunching something for everyone who can take part from the comfort of your home. So sign up today and become a part of God's army in these last days. Come on, we welcome you again today. We welcome everybody watching us on live stream and before I share what's on my heart today concerning discipleship and we will have a Q&A, I want to just highlight a few things. One of them is what you just saw and that is the HungryGenSchool.com. So in the past, for the last seven years, we have had what you probably have heard called internship. That has come to an end and it has morphed, transitioned into what we would now call HungryGenSchool that will be able to accept everyone anywhere, almost any time. The challenge with our internship program was this, is that people had to leave life that they lived and come here and this was not possible for majority of the people and so we saw that it limited our reach to help a lot of leaders, pastors, as well as Christians who wanted to be equipped. So what we are offering right now is pretty much, if we can put the graphic up, if we are offering and if I mentioned some things, if we can put them up there, what we're asking you guys is this, if you are interested and you're saying, listen, I want to learn more, I want to grow, one night a week, Monday nights is when we're going to be doing these. We do them already in our church, but we want to bring you along to do it with us. So this is for leaders, for pastors and also for Christians. So if you ever wanted to like, hey, I wanted to go to their ministry school, but I couldn't do it. So we are starting that right now available for every person. So this is not going to be just courses you're taking, we're actually going to do live with you and answer questions, have coaches and have a whole thing. It will be a year and a half track, seven weeks is the first step, 12 weeks is the second step and then 12 months, but even within those 12 months you can take different modules that we will offer pretty much seven years of our internship program broken down into a year and a half at your pace on Monday nights. So for those of you who are like, man, internship, missed it, we got you covered. We're coming to you in the comfort or discomfort of your home, depending on what your home is. Amen. So I would like to encourage you, you sign up for the life class first and then after life class we offer destiny training. After destiny training will start the ministry school. So the ministry actual how to cast out demons and everything we will offer that little bit later. And the reason why is because most people, they're very eager to prophesy paint off the walls and drive out demons, including pastors who a lot of them have not had a biblical proper foundational teaching. And for those of you who did have that, a lot of pastors reached out to us and they're like, how can we do this in our own church? And I say to them this, the best way to do it is to do it with us first. Let it drip, like in the hospital, they drip into your veins. Let us drip that DNA into you so that you can do that. If you already have a discipleship path, praise God. But if you're saying, hey, we don't have anything in the discipleship, we want to know how to do discipleship and to equip people into ministry. I would say this one night a week, you join in with us so that we can do it together. There is a small fee that's involved in that because we will have staff that will be dedicated just to this. So this is not just you joining on zoom. No, no, no, this is going to be a separate, almost like what we had for internship, except now this is going to be for our online training for leaders, pastors, as well as for Christians who want to grow in that, we will answer a little bit more about that, that little bit later. The second thing that I want to highlight and that is this is Daniela. Do we have the podcast graphic? So if we can put on the podcast, so something that we have that so many people don't know actually is we have a separate podcast called leadership podcast. So please subscribe to it. The reason being is that we only post things on this podcast that have to do with our staff meetings, leadership sessions, or pastor sessions. So today, for example, there will be a session on media that some of you might not be able to be in there. It will be posted there. So Monday, last Monday, I did a meeting to all of our life group leaders and all of our team leads. So you'll get a chance to honestly be equipped. People sometimes ask like, hey, how do you guys do your leadership? How do you train your leaders? How do you motivate your leaders? And that is pretty much the way through you can stay connected. It's a cost you nothing. It's absolutely free. So the online school thing is it's not free, but this thing is just our resource to you. And then one more thing that I want to offer to you guys today as just a blessing to your church in the area of small groups. And if our great ashes could hand a basket, could I have one of these first? If you could take one and then pass the basket around. And for those of you that are watching us online, they will drop a link as well to VladSchool.com. Now, do we have one where it's just all the e-courses? Instead of this, the growing one, Everett? Could you send it to Gracelyn? Yeah. So what you're seeing here is this. If you are a pastor, most likely you are like me who struggles sometimes to have curriculum for small groups. What we have here is about from right now, I think it's about eight or maybe even 10. I know there's about six or seven more courses in a queue where you can actually download these on your computer. It's 15 minute videos on different topics like marriage, demons, curses, fasting, relationship with the Holy Spirit. There's one for young people dating without fornicating. There's different courses that I offer and they're absolutely free. There's no cost attached to it. I'm not going to ask you for any money or anything of that. The only thing I ask you is you don't upload it to YouTube. Not so. It's exclusively made for churches. If you do upload it to YouTube for your team, make it unlisted so that only your life group leaders have access to it instead of uploading it publicly. Because if you do that, I will flag you and your channel will disappear. Threat is serious. The reason why is because the Bible says freely you receive and freely we have to give. We make this exclusive to churches and so I just want to make that exclusive to all of the churches. You can download it. You can have your people go through it. Most of them not all have actually small group study guide already. You pretty much just download it, give it to your small groups. We've used this and we continue to use this for our small groups. A lot of Bible study video material online by like John Bovier and other pastors and leaders, their videos are 40 minutes long. The challenge for a small group is the small groups cannot be videos cannot be that long. Because otherwise, you know, if you watch a video for 40 minutes and then you discuss it for three more hours, there you have an eternal small group. So what we've been wanting to do is actually to create one topic, break it into 15 minutes, 10 minutes, and then create discussions for the small groups. And so that's really designed for small groups mainly. And so I really want to encourage you guys to take advantage of that. If you're looking, if you're not looking for that, if you already have something else going on in your small group, that's completely awesome. But if you are been looking for that and you say, man, I really want to take my church through deliverance. So one of the best ways that we personally would encourage to take the church through deliverance is either take him through a book, all of the small groups, or take him through a small course like that, have all the small group leaders go through it, watch it, let people ask questions, and let them receive ministry in a small group. And this is how you bring something into the culture of the church. It's one thing to do a sermon on deliverance. It's another thing to build a culture of deliverance. You don't build a culture with one sermon. Culture is what eats every strategy for lunch. You can have a divine strategy from God. Come from this conference, come back and you say, you know what, we're going to do deliverance. If the culture of your church is anti-deliverance, you will do one deliverance service, and after that you will quit. Why? Because culture is aggressive. Culture takes 15 to 20 years to build. You do not change it in one day. You hijack culture by attacking it from every corner for at least three years. You create some systematic things like preaching maybe, you know, twice or three months a year about it. Then you do a small group curriculum with it, and then you interject other things because you must understand that to change the culture of the church, every church has a culture. Culture happens by design or by default. By default, culture will not gravitate toward the things of the spirit. By default, it will gravitate toward tradition, dry things, and things that are more, that are just more dead. To design a culture of the church, we have to get a blueprint of what we want the church to be, and then we have to, like an architect, intentionally begin to add those things into the messages, message series, then you expose the leaders, the key leaders to that by taking them to places like this, by bringing one of maybe our guys to your church as well and say, hey, let them talk to our leaders as well, and then what happens, you bring it through small group as well teaching and you start slowly shifting the culture of the church. The conference can spark a revival in you. It can spark a revival in the church, but if the culture of the church is not hijacked, it's not changed, it will not last. And so as pastors, God didn't just call us to preach sermons. That's why you shouldn't just preach sermons. You should use sermons to build something you want to see happen in the church. You want to see a generous church? Well, you got to use your sermons to build that culture. You can't just preach. Your sermons have to build something. What do they build? A culture that you sense in your spirit you want to design. Every church has a culture. It's either a design culture or a default culture. We want to move from the default to design. That means we want to see the church as God wants to see it, and it's not going to happen an accident. Now, great. So that's the courses that we have there that could be really a blessing to you and to your small groups, and it could just help you to build a culture if that's what you see necessary. Now, one of the things that I want to talk about this morning that is going to be not about necessarily deliverance, because we're going to deal with that tomorrow. Today, I want to address the issue of discipleship, and then we're going to have a little follow-up Q&A. It's going to relate a little bit to the school that I have mentioned a little bit earlier, but when it comes to discipleship, we must understand is that churches don't lack programs. Churches lack purpose. Most of our church members are not praying to God for God to give you another program. Programs is what happens when purpose leaves the church. The more programs we have in church, less purpose we have. The more programs we have in church, the less people are clear about what is the purpose and what is the path to fulfill that purpose. American Church, if I could say, is heavy on programs. They keep us busy, but not fruitful. Programs wear people out, and they wear pastors out, because programs is like you are in the kitchen and you have a frying pan, that thing that you do the eggs on. Have you noticed I say you and I mean, yeah. So imagine you're in the kitchen. Every program is a frying pan. As a pastor, you have to watch, make sure none of them burn, make sure the temperature is on each one of them. It's an extremely exhausting job. God did not create the church to be a kitchen for everyone's programs. If the church lacks purpose, it will lack a clear path. As a result, there will be many programs, and whoever comes to the church that has allowed personality and great ideas will create more programs, and because we don't want to offend them, we will give them a ride, and we will all say, well, we're letting people serve. Weeds grow like that as well. If you water your garden and you don't have a strategy or what you wanted to grow there, you will have a mess, not a garden. So that means that as a Christian pastor, I'm going to give you just a little different paradigm shift when it comes to the local church. Don't build the church on programs, build it on purpose, of winning souls and making disciples, and instead of creating more events, make a clear path where believers become disciples and disciples become disciple makers, and disciple makers could become people who function in the area of pastoral care. If I would say great commission in an American church, it would be like this, go into all the world and make conferences. Go into all the world and make retreats. Go into all the world and make events, that's my favorite one, and make events. Go into all the world and make services. That's really the great commission of, and when I say the American church, I mean myself included in that, and a lot of churches or pastors that are watching or re-listening to that. The Bible tells us that the great commission is not to go into all the world and make events, but to make disciples. Now, what we do have, though, is we have, and most of the churches have some sort of assimilation process. Assimilation process is a means or a path by which a visitor at our church becomes a volunteer, a member and then a volunteer. But at the end of the day, the goal is to use the visitors, turn them into members who will become volunteers to help us build a Sunday morning service. So the end goal is better services, not better Christians. So people are used in a funnel to really help build better services. The biblical understanding of discipleship is completely opposite, where the services are used to build better people. Jesus' understanding of the church's assignment is go into all the world and make better people, make disciples. Now, we have certain things that we need to implement to do that 100%, but the idea is not to build a better Sunday morning service. Nothing wrong with an excellent wow factor. Everybody wants to come and experience God's Sunday morning service. But I would submit to you that the dilemma in our day and age is that we build events better than we build disciples. And this was evident during COVID. When we could no longer have events, most of us did not know what to do. Why? Because when a pandemic order persecution comes, it throws the church, it pretty much strips the church and shows its true colors and its nakedness. Pandemic did not hurt our churches as much as it exposed our churches. That we were suffering, but because we had a band-aid called Sunday morning services and many programs that keep us occupied, we don't even have time to sometimes to stop and to think is what we're doing will work during persecution in China. What we're doing work for first 300 years of the church's history, where Christians, after becoming a Christian, you get slaughtered and eaten by lions and you cannot have a church physical building and you cannot gather as we gather and have a nonprofit status with the government. If the answer is no, that means whatever we're doing will not last if persecution or pandemic comes. Now, I came acutely aware of this about three years ago. First concerning our own ministry. As our ministry started to grow, you know, not every growth is healthy. Tumors grow. We don't want that growth. And a lot of times when we're young pastors or we're young in ministry, we don't have to be young people, we're just young in ministry, we're very eager to see growth. But to see growth at any expense is deadly. We must pursue health. Health brings growth, but growth does not guarantee health. Let me say that again. Health brings growth, but growth does not guarantee health. And I started to become aware of the fact that even in our own church, I am personally better at encouraging believers than equipping believers. And one pastor confronted me on that. It was from another country, so people don't do that in America, but in other countries, they don't have America's niceness. So he just told me what he thought, even though I didn't ask him to tell me what he thought. He has 7,000 churches under him, so I think he probably earned the right. And so I preached at the big event in another country with him. And he set me down afterwards and he said, there's 10,000 people trapped inside of you, a 10,000 member church. And he said, the only way you will unlock it is if you do what Jesus told you to do, and that is to equip the saints for the work of ministry. He says, you're better at preaching than you are at building. He just straight for the kill. He just went straight, like, no even preparation for that. And he said, you are really good at encouraging people. He says, you're probably not an equipper at all. And I was like, it's not one of my gifts. He says, who told you that? He says, it's your assignment. It doesn't matter whether you're gift or not. He says, if you call yourself a pastor, he says, you only have one book that gives you your resume or gives you your job description. He says, and it's not your personality test. It has to be the scripture. He says, and in Ephesians, it says clearly, you're supposed to equip the saints for the work of ministry. He says, you're bottlenecking your own ministry by only building Sunday morning services and instead of building people using services and other means. And the point blank asked me, what is the purpose of the church? And I kind of went, you know, like this generic thing. And he's like, you don't know, huh? And I was like, come on, it was three in the morning, we're driving him to the airport. So I was like, barely awake. And I was like, man, this is way too much too early. And he asked me a question. He says, if I come and interview just an average member who comes to your church, what does it take to be a disciple, make it in your church? What will they tell me? He says, if I ask 50 people, will I get 50 answers? I said, our church is creative. You might get 50 answers. He said, that means nobody knows. He says, do you even know? I said, well, and then I kind of started, you know, taking him on these bunny trails. And I realized as I was taking him on these bunny trails, I was confused myself. So I came back after that and it started a journey that it's, we've been on this journey and we're still on this journey of not just being a church that has a deliverance culture, miracles culture. And now the, for the last, I would say eight, seven years where we see salvation's regularly people getting saved, but to build another muscle within the church that is very important called discipleship. Yeah. Now this is not going to be an intense, because I only have very short time left on what is discipleship and all of that. This is where the Hungry Jen School, first six months of Hungry Jen School is really bringing that in to Christians, leaders and pastors, along with deliverance, healing, all of the other good stuff. And so that's why I really would encourage, I'm going to be like that real estate seminar where you come in and like, I'm going to give you one thing, but 10 more things. If you sign up for another seminar, I don't know, it's going to be like that today. Now let's look at some biblical understandings of that. Jesus invites those who are far from him to believe in him. Jesus invites those who believe in him to follow him. Believer is the one that comes to the cross. Disciple gets on the cross and carries the cross. Believer retreats to safety. Disciples embrace suffering. Believers cheer from the sidelines. Disciples are in the game. Believers read the Bible. Some disciples, they live that out. Believers are usually comfort driven. Disciples make sacrifices. Who is a disciple? It's somebody, I'll give you the five, just the Snapchat of what the disciple is. Number one, a disciple is somebody who has a diet. They feed on the scriptures. Jesus says, if you're my disciples, you will abide in my word. The second thing that makes a disciple is devotion. Jesus says, follow me. So this is more than just believing in Jesus mentally. It's actually following Jesus. And this is more than following him on Twitter or watching Chosen. It's actually living in devotion to Jesus. The third mark of disciple is discipline. Disciples forsake sin and they live some sort of a way of discipline, which is one of the reasons I believe that every church should practice as a culture, some sort of a prayer and fasting, whether it's once a week, once a month, once in two, three months. So it gives a outlet for disciples to practice their disciplines. Because a disciple is not a disciple without a discipline. So there's a diet, there's devotion, there's discipline. Fourth one is decisions. Is they lead other people to make a decision for Jesus? They fish for souls. Jesus says, if you follow me, he didn't say, I'll make you healthy, wealthy, rich. He says, you will fish for souls. Meaning one of the first marks of true disciple is that they begin to care for the lost. They win souls. And that's the fourth thing. The fifth thing is discipleship. You say a disciple, a fifth mark of a disciple is discipleship. Yes, they're not just winning souls. They're making disciples. True goal of discipleship is to turn a believer into a disciple who becomes a disciple maker. The end goal is not so you get a tribe of people who call you papa. The end goal is that you get a tribe and an army of people who replicate and duplicate and multiply. Amen. Now what I would like to encourage you with and so we started to look at discipleship even in our church and I'm just going to be transparent with you. I felt that as Hungry Jen, we were better discipling students that came from everywhere in America than we discipled our own church. Our own church, we did have small groups and we still do in small groups are very important. But when it comes to turning believers into disciples, I felt that that was lacking. Maybe the excuse that we bought into is the fact that people are busy, they don't have time and we don't need to take another evening. Plus, I hate having a church calendar being so packed out that even Jesus can't fit into it. It's so busy. And so I was like, man, we just don't have time. But interestingly, we would seven years ago started this program called Incheship. What we allowed other people to come to our church and take three months and find housing for them, find food for them. We found, we developed lessons. We developed training for them Monday through Friday. We developed things for them to practice. They paid money to be in that. Some of you are here, you were a part of that. And they got discipled. They got wrecked. They got impartation. So many of them started moving in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. So many of them became youth pastors after that. So many of them, their life, I mean, we saw in front of our own eyes people's lives being changed. Not because they had an encounter, but because they were equipped. But for our own church, we kind of like, honestly, we didn't do that for our own church, maybe because we're so busy to do it for everybody else. We didn't do it for our own church. And so we kind of started to notice that there's a vacuum. People get delivered, people move to tri-cities even because of the church, people get saved. And afterward, there's like almost like a vacuum. There's something is missing. And we started to go toward that slowly, but surely, and I'm going to, everything I'm going to share is really our process to get us to the point of where we at. We're not in any way experts in what we're doing. I'm just highlighting a need that I think every pastor here who specially has a simulation program. Now, something I want to mention. Assimilation is not discipleship. What is the simulation? There's a very popular concept right now called the grow model or the growth track where you have four lessons to become a member and to serve on the team, which is an incredible model. There's different other models of assimilating, meaning a visitor who comes to your church, a person who gets saved, how do they become a part of the church life? And so there's this very simple process, three weeks, two weeks, one week, whatever that you have. And you help them to learn about the vision, sign the membership contract, download the planning center app and serve once a month and not to delete service planning center app on their phone and to donate their tie to church. And also if they have time to go to small group, that I just summarized pretty much the whole model. Okay, there's nothing wrong with that. That is great. But please understand, it turns visitors into volunteers, not believers into disciples. And we had that for a very long time and we still believe in that. It's very important to bring people into the church family. It does not help us to fulfill the great commission in its potential. Why? Because people serve on Sunday, they downloaded the planning center app, but the revelation and the DNA of the house hasn't been fully downloaded in them. The deliverance has not really happened in many of them. They have hurts and hurdles, and then they leave after five, six months. A lot of times because there still have not, there are things that have not been dealt with them. The Bible says go into all the world and make disciples. It says this, teaching them. Sunday is usually not the teaching them moment, it's the preaching moment where it's reaching more to a wider audience of young believers, mature believers. The teaching component is the part where you are changing their mind, you are transforming their thinking, you're breaking their paradigm, you're molding them into the image and likeness of how Jesus wants them to think. Now we have that lacking in churches today. This explains why people can be in church, Christians speak in tongues and believe it's okay to live with your boyfriend as long as you're planning to get married. Christians believe that, a lot of them. Christians who believe that it's okay to identify as transgender if that's what you think because I don't want to impose my truth on you. Christians believe that. Our generation, especially the young generation, has a problem not with lack of encounter, not with lack of being zapped, fire, whoo. I got drunk in the spirit, rolled on the floor, smeared with oil. For most of us, after all of that is done, your thinking is unaffected because the thinking doesn't get changed by an encounter, it gets changed by equipping. And I'm not talking about just more preaching on Sunday, there has to be this component of great commission, teach them. Meaning you break their mindset, you don't, you help them not to think like the culture, you literally, if I could use that word in a negative sense, negative word, but in a positive sense, brainwash them. In fact, wash them with the pure word of God. And that happens through equipping and through discipleship. They're becoming molded and broken, and that's a very long process. This is not just one sermon. This is not just, yeah, we have Sunday morning. This is a very intense, intentional, and important necessary process by which we take not just visitors into volunteers, we take believers into disciples, and then disciple makers. Amen. So the snapchat of a disciple is diet, devotion, discipline, decisions, and discipleship. Ten truths about discipleship. Now, some, I'll give you a lot of notes. So pastors, if you're looking for a sermon material, just take my stuff and just re-preach it. Just make sure you do it better. And you don't have to give me credit. I'm completely fine with that. So ten truths about discipleship. I'm going to go through them just very quickly, and then we're going to talk about how deliverance goes together with discipleship, and some practical things we can implement that we've been practicing at Hungry Jet. The first truth is we were created in the beginning to be fruitful and multiply. Genesis 128, God blessed them and God said, be fruitful and multiply. Now we understand in the context it refers to making babies, but the principle is still the same. Reproduce who you are, meaning reproduce yourself. God created us to reproduce who we are. A similar component is eventually applied to us as believers to make, now we don't actually birth people spiritually in the sense that it's the work of the Holy Spirit, but God uses us to tell the gospel to somebody and bring them to salvation. So we were created to be fruitful and multiply. Number two, Jesus modeled to us the life of making disciples. Luke chapter 9 verse 1. Jesus was a master not just at attracting masses, he was also strategic in mentoring few. Jesus was not just doing big meetings, and I do not want to discredit the need of having great conferences, great Sunday morning services, because Jesus was great at those as well. He attracted masses, but I want you to notice is the masses didn't change the world. Masses didn't write book of Acts. Masses did not start churches. Masses came when he was offering free tacos and they left when he ran out of them. The moment Jesus' stock market or the moment Jesus' reputation went down and he got dragged and got executed, the masses were not there in front of the cross, because masses are flickering crowds. Masses, they come today, they don't have stability inside of them, they're not anchored, they're not disciples. It's the disciples that changed the world and Jesus had this strategy and not only Jesus had this strategy where he attracted masses, but he made disciples. Number three, Jesus told us to replicate his approach. He told us to duplicate his strategy. Jesus didn't just do this and gave us some other strategy and said, hey make sure you guys go into the world, do whatever you want. He says, no, go into the world and make disciples of all nations, meaning what you saw me do to you, do that to other people. Make disciples of all nations. Number number three, number four, I apologize, Jesus' disciples make disciples. So this is not something that stopped with Jesus' disciples because in the book of Acts we see when the number of disciples multiplied, but that's not how book of Acts chapter two starts. It starts with, and believers were added to the church. By chapter six, they became disciples. They were no longer just believers, part of the church membership, part of the church planning center, part of the serving app. Now they were disciples and they were multiplying so rapidly that it started to create problems in the church. The church's systems and structures couldn't handle the rapid, watch this, not just the rapid growth of members, the rapid multiplication of disciples. Please hear loud and clear. Disciples are not born, they're made. Nobody becomes a disciple an accident. Somebody invests into it. Somebody has a plan for it. Somebody has a process for it. That's why Jesus says go into all the world. He didn't say find disciples, he says make them. We never find disciples. Even if you find disciples in your churches because somebody made them and they just happened to move cities or they switch churches and now they're part of your church, but somebody made them. They did not become disciples on accident. Somebody was intentional about it. So disciples of Jesus, apostles, they made disciples. They attracted masses. Thousands of people got saved when they preached, but somehow they had a system, path, a purpose, because by Acts 6 we see the number of the disciples multiplied. Number five, Paul, who was not part of the original 12, expected Timothy to multiply. Second Timothy chapter 2 and verse 2, he says the things you heard from me among many witnesses, tell these to other faithful men who will be able to tell others. In other words, Paul had this idea that it has to have like this chain. There's always has to be a continuous. We don't want to stop with me. We don't want to stop with Timothy. You need to find other people, meaning this has to not end with us. The church should not be a retirement center. It should not end with you. The church should not age with you. With discipleship, you always have a flow of fresh blood. Without discipleship, the median age of the church is usually the median age of a pastor, which nowadays it's 50 or 60 years of age. God doesn't want it to be like that. God wants in the church to have all ages, elders, to have adults, have young adults, have children, and a lot of babies. Why? So that there's a continuity of the gospel of Jesus Christ being passed on to the next generation, to the next generation. So our God is the God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Jacob, God of Joseph, and so forth and so on. Number six, Jesus gave talents and expected multiplication, not maintenance. In fact, the man who maintained his talent was not called faithful, but lazy. We should redefine faithfulness. Faithfulness is not if I don't lose what I got. Jesus' definition of faithfulness is if I multiply what I have. And the reason for not multiplying, this is not my words, Jesus made it very plain. He says wicked and lazy. What if, I'm just suggesting, I'm not saying this is your situation, this accusation is probably about the church next door. What if the real reason we don't multiply is because we're lazy. What if we break the paradigm of I am faithful, I'm just keeping what I have to Jesus' definition of faithfulness and that is to multiply what I have. Multiplication is God's definition. It seems like in Matthew 25 of faithfulness. Number seven, the enemy is afraid of you and our churches to multiply. Exodus chapter one verse 10, it says, and the enemy, Pharaoh, he afflicted them and treated them with harsh labor. And it says this, lest they multiply. What if the enemy has caused more burdens, bad experiences, business, any other Bs I can think of right now, bondage. Come on, Ilya, open that AI chat right now so we don't multiply. What if the enemy has given us burdens, bondage. What if the enemy has given us bad experiences, discipleship models that maybe we've tried before that seem more controlling and then seem more like a Colombian cartel than a biblical discipleship. We need to ask your leader for permission to go use the restroom and where everything is, it's a control, it's not a discipleship model, it's just, it's a cartel. And so it runs more like a mafia than like a ministry of Jesus Christ. And so we have bad experiences and when we have bad experience, we tend as Christians to go from one side of the extreme to the other side of the extreme. We're like, we know discipleship, discipleship, and then we have bad experience that we go like completely not just do whatever you want, just love Jesus and you know, when God is everything and he's everywhere and go into spirituality instead of Christianity. So bad experiences and then you know, the enemy would use busyness to lest we multiply. Because the real reason, if we be honest, we are not multiplying is a lot of times we're so busy already. It's like man, and this idea maybe comes to your mind, you're like, man, Vlad, you have no idea how much stuff I have on my mind. The last thing I want is to start something new. No, I want you to burn everything to the ground and start something completely scrum scratch. Just don't do that this week, next year. Because I've done it right away when we came and right away burn everything to the ground. And then the fire trucks had to come. I don't mean physically I burn anything to the ground, but the church structure, I was like, that's it, everything we're doing is wrong, we only need to do discipleship and everything. And I'm like burning with fire and, and then I realized that, you know, you can burn everything to the ground, but the problem is that you're dealing with mindsets of people that you have by default allowed to be built for a very long time. You can't undo those mindsets just because you had an encounter at the conference and you got zapped with the revelation. You got to be slow in hijacking the culture by taking slowly the core team and exposing them to whatever got you all worked up so that they can be exposed so they could be their revelation as well. And sometimes it simply means you take them with you on a trip like this, or you bring somebody who is exposed, carries this virus of discipleship and exposes your team as well so that you can start having the conversation of what we can change. Before we change things in the church, we have to change the mindsets of the key leaders who have the influence to cause other people to follow their leadership. Amen? Is this helping anybody? I know this is not a typical sermon, so I'm just kind of sharing church stuff. So the enemy is afraid of us multiplying and he will give us burdens, he will give us bondage, he will give us bad experience, and he will give us business so that we don't multiply. Number eight, discipling others or making disciples shows our love for the Lord. John 2115, Jesus asks Peter, he says, do you love me? Peter says, Lord, you know that I love you. And it's interesting, Jesus, if this would have been, this is how we think. Jesus says, well, great, attend the church, pay your tithe, and don't sleep with anybody except your wife. That's how we most of us think because the Bible does say if you love me, keep my commandments. But I want you to notice what Jesus here says in John 21. He says to Peter, see in the beginning of the ministry, he told Peter, you're going to fish. At the end of his ministry, he told Peter, you're going to feed. In the beginning of his ministry, there was a miraculous catch and the emphasis was on evangelism. At the end of his ministry, the emphasis was also miraculous sketch, emphasis was on discipleship. He didn't say catch the fish, he said, feed the lambs. Because when you catch the fish, you pretty much gut the fish, clean the fish, and then from a fish, he becomes a lamb. Supernatural transformation. And when you get, you don't do to the lamb what you did to the fish. You know, you got to feed the lamb. You eat the fish, you feed the lamb. When you get the fish, you know, you got it. And there has to be work of the Holy Spirit, renewing of the mind, change. But once he becomes the lamb, you got to feed the lamb. Jesus says, feed my sheep. And so there is these two sides and Jesus says, if you love me, this is how I want you to love me, pretty much, Jesus says. So pastors, leaders, dear Christians, you want to know Jesus' love language? Feed the lambs. Disciple others. Jesus says, you know, it's great that you're going to pray more, but that's not really how it communicates love for me because I love people so much. And it really blesses me if you help my fish become my lambs. And if you don't starve these lambs or just use their fur to make a fur coat, but you actually feed those lambs so those lambs can multiply. Number nine is, discipling others grows us spiritually. First John chapter two verse 12 and 13, it talks about three levels of spiritual growth. It says children, youth, and fathers. Now, three levels of spiritual growth, child, youth, and father. A child is somebody who needs care. A youth is somebody who can care for themselves. And a father is somebody who cares for themselves and has enough capacity to care for someone else. A father is not somebody because of their age. It just means that they have a greater level of responsibility and fathers have children. You're not a father because you have a degree. You have a father because you have a child, right? And so when we begin to go from the spiritual level of child to adult, which means I take care of myself. You don't have to tell me to read the Bible. You don't have to tell me to tithe. You don't have to tell me to love my wife. I know how to do that myself. There is yet one more level of maturity that all Christians can reach. And if we don't have discipleship, we deprive them from growing up spiritually because it's part of their spiritual growth. And this growth is when you no longer care only for yourself. But unfortunately we have made that in our churches, our church included, where the top level of spiritual growth is you take care of your spiritual life. But biblical top level of spiritual growth is not when you take care of your spiritual life. It's when you have somebody else you're caring for. And this is not for the elite. This is not for people who don't have any other gifts, cannot run a YouTube, cannot run a camera, cannot run their mouth, or cannot sing. Now we have this place for you called discipleship. It's pretty much for all the people who cannot do anything else with their life, go and disciple. No, this is a spiritual maturity for every Christian. Think about it. For those of you who are parents, you're not a parent because you're perfect. You're not a parent because you're rich. You're a parent. Every human being is wired to procreate. Every human being that's healthy, it doesn't matter what your career is. It doesn't matter what your color is. It doesn't matter what your degree is. You can have babies. You can be a millionaire or you can be homeless. You can have children that you care for. Now, of course, if you're homeless, taking care of them will be very difficult. But you get the point. It's not limited to a particular sector of our society. We have people in hospital. We have people in Starbucks, in the fitness, in every sphere of our society, people have babies. When it comes to the church, we limited the issue of evangelism and discipleship to a particular department of some elite people. Evangelism and discipleship cannot be a department. It has to be the direction. It has to be the culture where every Christian perceives their spiritual growth as baby, youth, father. Where you now care for other people, where you now take care of the follow-up, where you now lead them to the Lord, where you now help them to grow in Jesus Christ. Number 10, discipleship helps us to have fruit that remains. This deals with John chapter 15, verse 16, and Pastor Illy did an incredible job yesterday talking about abiding in Jesus. But if you read John chapter 15, you see five levels of fruitfulness. So I'm spilling a lot of stuff. Just keep up with me and then download the podcast so you can listen to it later. Five levels of fruitfulness in John chapter 15, level number one of fruitfulness, no fruit. Some of you are like, I'm on that level. Level one of fruitfulness, no fruit. That's still level one. But you don't stay on that level very long because the Bible says those who have no fruit, he cuts off. Some of our Bibles have a footnote that says he lifts up. Theologians are still debating on what that really means. But in the area of vineyards, typically a gardener will take a branch that is on the ground and lift it up so that it can have a chance to breathe and to live. So if your ministry is not seeing fruit, the goal isn't to close down your ministry. The goal is to find a place where things are happening so you can honestly get a fresh vision. Without fruit, God wants to give you, God wants to give you an inspiration, not termination. He wants to give you just hope. That's what was happening today. That's a level one. Level two is fruit. Jesus says, and if you bear fruit, God has a blessing for you, a reward and knife. Pruning. Why is he giving us a pruning after we bear fruit? Because the moment we become fruitful, usually what begins to happen is that our sap is spread to all other suckers, other branches that are not fruitful. I call them church programs. So when the church becomes fruitful, typically everybody who has an access to your ear begins to plant ideas of what they think the church should look like. And many times what pastors run around is actually following everybody's or the most loud complainers ideas in the church. And it's very dangerous to build a church where you spread sap to anything that wants to grow. God appoints a pastor for a reason. That means that not everything needs to grow. What did God call our house to be? And we need to trim. Oh, but the other church, well, this is the way the Lord is leading our house and we have to learn if we are fruitful and we're not pruning things always and changing things and making things more narrow or more focused to who we are, we will end up being everywhere and nowhere and we will not make lasting significant change on the body of Christ. So when you're fruitful, that's the second level. You got to learn to do more pruning, less growing. The third day after that, the moment you begin to practice pruning, then the third thing comes in and that is more fruit. So no fruit, fruit, more fruit. And Jesus says, after more fruit and Pastor Illy did a great job yesterday, the idea to go from more fruit to much fruit is abiding me and my words abiding you. Meaning we got to deepen our prayer life and intimacy to go from, so in one way we get lifted, we need inspiration. Then when we start getting fruit, we need to practice elimination. That rhymes actually. And so we prune the stuff, we remove things and then we get more fruit. And then after we get more fruit, there has to be a deeper intimacy, deeper, deeper allowing God's word. So that was after we have more fruit, we can have one more much fruit. So no fruit, fruit, more fruit, much fruit, but there's one more thing. After Jesus finished talking about it in John chapter 15 and verse 16, he says that your fruit will remain. There's one more thing and that is remaining fruit. So five levels of fruitfulness, no fruit, fruit, more fruit, much fruit, fruit that remains. I truly believe the fruit that remains really deals with the continuum of our ministries where when you die, the ministry continues. When you're not there, the ministry continues. So it's not only connected to your preaching as a pastor, your vision, but it's in such a way. And that is really the true success of a ministry is when you have a successor. That's why one of the things that when God came to Abraham and said, Abraham, you know, I blessed you with so much. I'm your great reward. Abraham says, I don't get it. You didn't give me a successor. You can't call me blessed like that if I don't have nobody to continue my line. In our world, if God would come in and give you money and give you fame and exposure and blessings, which really what God kind of gave him, we were like, thank you, Lord. Can you give me that verified link on Instagram? There's one more thing I need, Lord, the verification on TikTok. You know, that's about it. Could you just give me one more thing? Can you give me a little bit more members? But Abraham knew the real success is not how much Abraham has. It's who can continue when Abraham's gone. And we have to redefine our fruitfulness. The final level of that success is the fruit that remains, meaning it's not about just me, it's through me and then God's kingdom continues through our ministries. Is this helping anybody? Now, a pastor who wins 10,000 people every month will win the world in 60,000 years. A person who wins two people every month and teaches them to do the same will win the world in 30 months. The power of multiplication. This is why the enemy is afraid of multiplication. This is why the enemy will fill your church with anything and everything as long as you don't do discipleship and as long as you don't multiply because nothing is a threat to him like multiplication. Programs are not a big threat. Business is not a big threat because honestly, he knows, you know, I know, we all know business will wear us out. The enemy doesn't even have to waste some of his spare demons. We'll just wear ourselves out. But discipleship is dangerous. Why? Because multiplication is going to spread the kingdom of God in a lot faster and every believer has a role to play in that. Now I want to address the part of deliverance and discipleship. I like to use the analogy of Matthew 21 and verse two. If you have your Bible, go with me. It's the story of Jesus entering into Jerusalem, riding a donkey, Matthew chapter 21 and verse two. And it says this saying to them, go into the village opposite you and immediately you will find a donkey tied and a colt with her. Loose them and bring them to me. And if anyone says anything to you, you shall say the Lord has need of them and immediately he shall send them. I want to just highlight when it comes to, now we're going to kind of go into more of a practical discipleship. I like to call it the hitting the home run. Write this down. Hitting the home run when it comes to discipleship. You know, when you play baseball and I don't play baseball, so, but I saw how they play baseball. I think I got hit one time. We were practicing. I think it was actually, remember that? Was it you that hit me? Yeah. See, I still have unresolved trauma from I was wondering on that who I see. I forgot about who did it. But I just remember I got hit. And so we were playing baseball across our street when we just came to the United States and, you know, Ilya didn't know what he was doing because he hurt me with it. And so the ball hit my hip so bad. I was hurting. Yeah, I was limping like Jacob. Yeah. And this was 20 years ago. And I still remember. I just don't remember that it was him. I forgave him quickly, but the trauma is still there. So ever since then I was like, baseball is not for me. This is bad, bad memories for me. But baseball has four bases, you know, first base, second base, third base, and fourth base. And I would like to use the idea of discipleship as hitting a home run. So the idea of a home run is you want to run to the fourth base. And with discipleship, it's pretty much the similar thing. So I'm going to give you just these four bases when it comes to discipleship. The first base is discovery. It's when you find them. Jesus says, go and find the donkey. Discovery deals with people discovering Jesus Christ and making a decision to follow Jesus. Coming to the altar. Sometimes that could happen with a small group. It could happen in school. Discovery. Go and find this donkey. That's the first base. Now most of us know what that is. We know what that looks like. So I will move faster to the second one. The second one is deliverance. Jesus says, when you find this donkey, I want you to loose this donkey. So after evangelism, when somebody gets saved, they must go through some sort of form of deliverance. People have hurts. People have hangups. People have habits. And people just have a lot of problems many times. Very far and in between where somebody comes to our church, gets saved and they have never been abused, never practiced witchcraft, never been divorced, grew up in a healthy family. That's almost unusual because if they lived away from God, there's no way Satan has been nice to them. So we have to automatically assume that when people are coming to Christ, they're coming with baggage and they're coming with stuff and that should never shock us. And that's why churches who would appeal to say that deliverance is not for Christians. I'm like, what kind of people to get saved in a church? I'm like, do people first get saved in a church? Or people don't get saved in a church. It's just you get church transfer where everybody moves from that church where somebody ready to deliver them and now they come to your church and it feels like you got all the perfect people because the church we have, the kind of people that get saved in that church, many of them need deliverance. And so in the Bible clearly, I mean, this is an analogy of course. So this is an analogy where Jesus says that go and find this donkey and he says, lose this donkey. In the paganism that we live in today where it has embraced the spirituality without Jesus, it has embraced all kinds of crazy stuff. People come to church and when they get saved, demons are still there and they do not evaporate. They do not leave. We don't see one instance where Jesus comes into a place and demons left by the sheer presence of his. We see Jesus casting out demons. Jesus casting out demons. And we see demons manifesting when Jesus showed up but not leaving. The idea that Jesus coming inside of you causes them to leave is not biblical because it didn't happen in the gospels. Jesus coming inside provokes them. It doesn't expel them. So this idea that if we just get him saved, all the problems will be over. It's interesting their hair doesn't change color when they get saved. They don't change their address when they get saved. Their debt doesn't get completely removed when they get saved. The flat tire in the car in their garage does not get air. There's a lot of things that don't change and one of those things that usually does not change is curses, traumas and demons. They usually will go either into hiding or they will get provoked and exposed faster. There's usually two signs. One of them is this. A person gets saved. Hell breaks loose. That means Jesus moved in. It drives all the demons crazy. Or some demons are too domesticated and they are too well petted and they actually go into the basement or into the attic. The same way as if you turn on the light, mice run. They don't run at you. They run from you and they go into hiding and they look for dark corners and places you can't reach. And that's exactly what happens when many Christians get their life to Jesus. Demons go into hiding. So that's why people can live for a long time. They're like, oh, everything is great. Everything is great except once in a while some rotten thing comes out. Oh, but I'm pretty sure it's my flesh. And of course, Melchia, try harder. You know, get some counseling and everything and counseling and trying harder can sweep the floor. It does not remove the mouse. Broom sweeps the floor. Broom does not kill a mouse. A rag can wash your window, but a rag will not kill a mouse. You got to have something else. You need to go to Walmart. You need to go to Lowe's and you got to buy them tricky things. And you got to set them up, put some little cheese on it and you got to bake that sucker and you got to come on somebody. A.K. Deliverance. Amen. So the idea that people present that Christians cannot have demons or once you get saved, all of that is over. Well, on a practical standpoint, that is not true. And we just see Jesus everywhere casting out, casting out, casting out. Why did he need to cast out if his sheer presence should drive them out automatically according to American theology? And then he tells us to cast them out. He doesn't say, just get people saved because that's what, if, if getting saved gets all of the demons out, why tell his followers to cast out demons? He should have been saying, just get them saved. Jesus doesn't tell that. He says, get them saved. He doesn't say, and automatically they'll get healed. Then he says, then get them healed. And then he says, get them delivered. That means that salvation does not equal healing or deliverance automatically. Amen. So the second stage of discipleship, and it's very important, and that is the stage of deliverance. That means whatever path, track you have for discipleship that does not have deliverance is going to lead you to defeat. Yeah. Why will he do that? Because you can't disciple somebody effectively. That doesn't mean we can't try. Who has a demon problem? Discipleship deals with the mind, deals with the soul, but it also has to deal with the evil spirit, with the trauma, with all of the stuff. And so in one of our ways, that's where the first track is life class. And some of you say, man, I need to learn about casting out demons. Actually, the life track that I would encourage each one of you to be a part of you, and those of you watching online, is the seven weeks that we give to all of our new members as part of being assimilated into the church. And in the middle of that life class, we take people on this outside of town retreat. We call it freedom weekend. What we pretty much deal with, majority of unclean spirits, they fill out some pieces of paper. We talk with them. We pray with them. A lot of it is in their healing. And why is that a part of the process of being assimilated into the team and into the church? Because if they are bleeding, if the demons are tormenting them, and we simply fed them with lunch, get their membership commitment signed, and they're serving, but they're literally, they're being raped by an unclean spirit. They're being, their mind is being molested. Their mind is being abused. Their emotions are being abused. We're not helping them. So discipleship, the first track of discipleship, I believe has to have some form of deliverance. Loose them and let them go. Do you remember what Jesus did with Lazarus? And he said, when he got him out of the tomb, and he says now, loose him. So that again, another analogy that this is not a biblical truth, but it's a biblical analogy of Jesus raising him from the dead, but he still need to be released from the clothes of the grave. So Christians can be raised spiritually, could be found by Christ, and still not be free. Found, but not free. Believers, but in bondage. And it's possible. Our goal is not to convince Christians can't have demons. Our goal is to convince the Christians shouldn't have demons, and we should just help Christians to be free. So that's the second base. The second base is Lusat-Donkey. The third base is discipleship. And this means bring it to me. So Jesus says, go find the donkey. Then he says, loose this donkey. So discovery, deliverance, discipleship. And I want you to watch what this discipleship, in an analogy, what it looks like is that you bring it to me. I love this. Take the donkey that's been loosed. Jesus doesn't say loose the donkey and let it go and walk around in the city of Jerusalem. Give it free, rain. A train can be free when it leaves the train tracks, but it will end up nowhere. Discipleship is when a person who gets delivered as part of discipleship already, they now have somebody who walks alongside of them, bring them to me. He doesn't say, give a donkey directions. Donkey is not going to read directions. You don't tell your kids when they get born, you don't tell them, say, hey, when your infant comes to the house, hey, just FYI, don't forget to drink milk. There's a toilet over there. You bring that baby into adulthood by walking alongside with them. You're not their god, you're not their mother. It is your other mother or their father. What I mean is you're not their lord, you're not their boss, but at the same time, with care, not control, but there are some moments of parenting in the beginning that does seem 100% control. And the baby doesn't understand that at first, but it's necessary because it's not control, it's care because the baby cannot care for itself. But that control shifts quickly where the parents now become more of a friend and other stuff as the baby begins to grow and become a full adult. Jesus says, take the donkey and bring the donkey to me. And this is what biblical discipleship is, is that we're helping somebody go closer to Jesus. We point them to Jesus. Now, clear distinction. Discipleship is not people being your disciples. Jesus didn't say, and take that donkey for a ride. He didn't let him sit on that donkey. That's for Jesus. That means we don't control their life. We don't dominate their life. We don't become their counselor. Now, we can provide them biblical advice, but at the same time, we don't take the lordship position just because we're discipling. And that's where the abuse of the shepherding movement went into when the discipleship went to the extreme where you didn't give people liberty and it went into huge control, legalism. And we have to be very careful because Jesus says, bring that donkey. That means you don't drive this donkey. You don't beat this donkey like Baylor, but not riding them, not controlling them. And then comes the point number four. So, discovery, discipleship, deliverance, discipleship, point number four is deployment. Matthew 21, verse seven, it says, they brought the donkey and the colt, laid their clothes on them and said, him who was him? It wasn't Saint Peter. It was Jesus. That means Jesus is the one that said, so the real discipleship, the real goal of discipleship that you really made a disciple is when he sits on them and the Bible says the city was moved. Now, they become used of God to reach their world. And now the Jesus you talk to them about is the Jesus they know his voice. And he now uses them. You're still walking alongside with palm trees saying, I know, I remember when this person was still lost and so much grace God has done and there's still my coat. Jesus is sitting on my coat, but God is doing great things through them right now. That is really the ultimate goal of discipleship is discovery, deliverance, discipleship and deployment. Amen. Is this helping anybody? Now, in the conclusion, how do we make this even more practical? Five things. How many points did I give you today? 20? I told you pastors, if you come here, you'll have enough material for the next three months of leadership meetings. You're like, I was in my prayer and sat on Friday morning in Pasco. The Lord gave me a download. Amen. It's fine. It's all good. Copyright is your right to copy. I don't have that privilege anymore though because if I borrow somebody's thought, if I don't give credit, I get eaten for lunch online. So, but five things that I wanted to share at the end. Number one is where you have discipleship, you will have evangelism. Where you have evangelism, you don't always have discipleship. Now, the concept for this came from a professor. I was, I'm in a Bible seminary right now and actually ironically had a discipleship class and somebody who studies this and he mentioned that and that really just kind of struck me that if you have discipleship, you will have evangelism because it's important part of discipleship to evangelize. But when you have evangelism, you don't always have discipleship. As we mentioned, we cannot disciple somebody who doesn't follow Jesus. It's the same thing would be as to discipling a corpse, undressing a corpse. It's pointless. Just let them be. That means we don't tell somebody to follow Jesus if they haven't believed in Jesus. That's why sometimes, you know, when somebody comes in and they have not been born again and it is good to teach Christian morals and principles and to stand against the cultural flood of immorality and all of this stuff, but to convert, to change people's behavior for just without them ever receiving Jesus Christ. It's not really the point of discipleship. We only deal with people that are born again. We help them to change their thinking and their behavior. So we focus on evangelism, but we also must focus on discipleship. Number two, it is difficult to have discipleship without deliverance, but it's possible to have deliverance without discipleship. If you don't have deliverance in your church, it is difficult to have discipleship. Sooner or later, even large mega churches that like the Chris Hodges Church of Highlands, you know, even they have freedom groups. They call them freedom groups. A lot of churches begin to implement that because every church begins to recognize that the issue of dealing with the demonic, with dealing with curses, dealing with strongholds, it's not limited to the Charismaniac churches. It's people have problems and people need help and we can't bury our head in the sand and pretend that they don't have any problems or just tell them to take an Advil if they need deliverance. And so whatever the discipleship program or system that we have, we must incorporate it with deliverance and for those of you who are coming here and you are like deliverance junkies like demon slayer, AK dragon slayer, giant killer, you're like, that's just who I am. Demons gets my blood hot. And so I'm just I'm excited. Tell me how to slay demons. And that is really, really noble. I think it's something incredible that is happening in the church today in the United States where God is bringing deliverance to the forefront where there's a bigger exposure even in entertainment industry. I mean, even people that are not even Christians or people who don't believe in supernatural begin to open themselves up to the idea that there is a spiritual warfare taking place because of all the garbage that is happening. But if you only do deliverance and you don't have some kind of a discipleship follow up or discipleship in the local church, you will be defeated. It will be disappointed. Plus the great call is not to go into all the world and cast out demons. The Bible does say these signs will follow, but the calling and the assignment on the church is to make disciples. Number three, deliverance is what God does for you. Discipleship is what God does in you. Deliverance is what God does for you. Discipleship is what God does in you. Number four, discipleship in the church. And now we're going to get more to practical discipleship in the church requires the church to be three things hospital home and a school. Discipleship in the church requires the church to be three things hospital. It's when people are born home is where people belong and school where people are built. And we will kind of break that down during a Q and A in just a moment, but in a nutshell when the baby is born, typically babies are born where? In the hospital. In the hospital is the birth. What happens when the baby is born? There is a delivery. Okay, maybe perhaps, because the baby, you know, is alive, real, nine months before it gets delivered. Could it be that people come to our churches and they get born again? They become real Christians, but after a few months they get delivered, come out of the whatever thing that they were in and like really live unrestricted now for Jesus, maybe, maybe a stretch to the knowledge just too far or maybe perfect. But home is after the baby is born and delivered. The hospital is where the baby is born. The baby is delivered. Then you bring this baby to home. Home is where the babies belong. Home is the baby has a mom and a dad. Home is when the baby is fed, when the baby is nurtured. Now mom and dad didn't actually go to a university and took a class on parenting. Most of the time there's just YouTubing their way out. Yeah, yeah, googling, you know, the baby didn't wake up for three hours. What does that mean? What are the symptoms of my baby having, you know, in reality, there is no university classes for parents. You're not a pro-parent. You just, you got a baby and you can have a PhD in science and absolutely not know what to do with this little human being. So you quickly call somebody and say, hey mom, what did you do when I did that? You know, hey, what do we do? You text other parents. But one thing that home has is not necessarily a bunch of expertise with the first child, bunch of care. They're willing to rearrange their schedule. They're willing to do whatever it takes so that this little minion survives and makes it into real, makes it and starts walking on their own feet. See, the church is the hospital where people are born again and get delivered from demons. The problem that happens when the churches do not have a home, meaning they don't have home groups, small groups. Then what happens is these babies are left in the hospitals. Now, last time I checked, the only babies that stay in the hospitals are the sick ones. When the church is only a hospital, but also not a home, we get sick babies because Christians do not just need a corporate gathering, which is very essential. Christians also need not just rows, they need circles. They need smaller circles over where somebody cares for them. This person who cares for them does not need to be a theologian. It just needs to be a caring Christian who knows a little bit more than they do. And if they don't, they can use Google. Their goal is not to be necessarily the person who will teach them all the Bible history and interpretation. They will teach them the basics. That's exactly what our parents taught us. They taught us the basics of life, how to make it, how to feed ourselves, how to make our bed. And then there's one more thing the church needs, is a school. Why? Because the parents don't teach us science, math, and PE. They take us to the school. So the church has to have to have a complete discipleship, if I could say. The church has to function in these three capacities. Is the hospital? People are born again, people are saved. Home is that there are homes of older, much more mature believers who preferably are equipped and they kind of know what they're doing so they don't hurt those babies and they care for those babies. They reach out to those babies. They follow up on them. They love them into maturity. And then the church has to provide one more thing. Where the small group leaders and the believers who got saved here can learn science, math, PE. Meaning they can learn theology, they can learn some biblical teaching and understanding, a framework, but the purpose of the school is not to just increase your knowledge. In the biblical sense, the school is to increase your obedience. The Bible says that we teach them to observe, not just to teach them to know. Meaning when they are in school, so whatever program we have for a Bible study, that's why I told people that instead of having a Bible study night, have some kind of a track that has a beginning and end. Why does it have to have an end? Because there has to be a purpose to why people go through it. I was just talking to a pastor a week ago and he tells me and asked him how their small groups are going. He's like, we don't have any small groups. And but he says, we have a Bible study night or Bible study evening. And so I asked how many people come to that. He says very little people come to that. So I'm like, honestly, it's really more like a small group. He's like, yeah, you're right. I'll just turn it into a small group. So it will provide a different environment than a Sunday morning service because you're doing exactly the same thing except for a smaller amount of people. Totally change the environment for the small group. But that's more about care. It's not about preaching. It's more of digesting what was preached on Sunday. Sunday is the information small group is the application and the focus is leaders facilitating conversations instead of preaching all the time. And this way you can have more leaders because not everybody wants to preach, but everybody can love. Not everybody. My mom and my dad, maybe my dad can preach, but my mom will actually, I think she thinks she can preach. So my mom and my dad, they're not preachers, but they didn't raise us because they were preachers. They raised us because they were caregivers. So if you if you make the small groups where it's another Sunday morning service, just in somebody's house, then what happens is you raise the bar so high where now you have to raise preachers. But that's not necessary for somebody to grow spiritually. What's necessary is brother and sister in Christ who helps them to love Jesus, read the Bible, pray fast and stay away from sin. And my friend, majority of mature believers who have been grown and taught can do that. And then you don't have to worry about them teaching false doctrine because they're not not part of the requirement to teach doctrine. They're simply digesting what was preached on Sunday in a smaller setting and providing care and providing connection to other believers because we need a hospital and we need a home. And then these leaders don't have to do all the training because they also have a school that they recommend people to go to. And the school is the training, is the training we provide. Now, not just ongoing 24 seven all the time, never ending. It has to have some kind of an end because if I will go to school for the rest of my life, no offense, I'll quit a long time ago. 12 grades is long, but at least it's 12. You see what I'm saying? And so that's what like the people who like, well, no, we just have a Bible study. It's been going on for 20 years. What did this Bible study produce? Well, our people know about the Bible. Well, that's not really the main point of disciple making. Do they make disciples? No. Then we have a problem. So most of us do not have a problem. We don't have enough time. It just we fill the time slots in our church calendar with things that don't make disciples. We're busy keeping programs instead of keeping a purpose, and we do not have a clear path. And the fifth one is disciples make disciples, not classrooms or programs. So think about one path, not many programs. Think about equipping, not just encouraging. Encouraging is important, but equipping is as important. Think about thinking disciples, not just making events. Think about building an army, not just increasing an audience. So we do that at Hungry Jen is Sunday morning is our the big thing for us. It's our celebration. It's our hospital day. And Monday night is our training day. It's when we train new believers to become disciples, disciples to become disciple makers and disciple makers to become pastors. This track, there's three of them. First one is very short. It's seven weeks. It seems long. Honestly, don't assume that our generation is as lazy as we think they are. They'll go for it. If there's a momentum in the church, they'll go for it. And then there's a discipleship school, and that is right after that, it's called destiny training. And then after that is ministry school. And that's something like, man, I would love to know what that is. That's exactly what you must sign up for HungryGenSchool.com. You saw how slick that was? That's like, amen. Awesome. So, but no, seriously, this is not me. This is not a sales pitch, but genuinely, I want you to experience that and do it with us starting in July. And so my, our idea of discipleship is discipleship happens in four ways. Did I just give you more points? That's good. Keep the notes rolling. The first one is attending Sunday morning is a form of discipleship. You're already experiencing something. I don't think it's there. The second way is the small group. As I mentioned that, if you go to a small group, it's a form of discipleship. The third way is we call it Monday night training. It's when we train people to be disciple makers, believers becoming disciples. And the fourth way, which probably every church here has, it's called the dream team. It's when you serve on Sunday morning or the teams. So every church has, you know, camera team or other stuff. So, so for Sunday morning, as we attend, we receive. And that's a form of discipleship already. If somebody's coming on your Sunday morning, they don't go anywhere else. They're already being exposed to the truth of the gospel. That's already a form of discipleship that, but that's not all. The second way is they need to be connected. The Bible says they broke bread and they met in houses. The third way is they need to be trained. The Bible says they dwelt in the apostles doctrine. So people have to be taught, go into all the world and teach and baptize them. And so that has to be some kind of a consistent training, not just getting them into a church membership. And then after that, like, yeah, I just watched Vlad or watched somebody on YouTube and stuff. So, and that's how a lot of us do. We just get him into church membership. And after that, we're like, whatever they watch and whatever they feed themselves and they develop their own doctrinal preferences because we don't actually bring that to them. And the fourth way is they serve on Sunday, preferably probably Sunday, or some kind of a ministry that helps to build the hospital or the school or the home. So they serve and we usually have, we call it in our churches now, dream team or teams where they serve and they can actually fulfill their gift and their calling that they have for the body of Christ. Amen. Does anybody have any questions? You're afraid of 10 more points? You're like, we don't have enough time to digest this. Yeah, we wanted to do a Q&A, so we're gonna do it right now just like that. If we can have a microphone ready, we just have few more moments. Is lunch at 12? Oh, okay. Yeah. If you have any questions, just raise your hand and we will just go ahead. Let's have a second microphone this side. You talked about that vision, that fire that you got. You wanted to burn everything down. I did burn everything down. You totally did. And then so, but you didn't give a, okay, so I did that the wrong way. What would then be the way that you would come back that would you set a vision? Like what would you do given you go back in time and not burn things down? What would that look like? Good question. So the bad thing would be to do is to come back to church and simple as say church, especially if you want to do something big shift, the culture of the church. If you just wanted to let's say implement small groups and your church is very small and you have literally three, four main leaders, you just bring it to them, you expose it to them. If the church is a little bit bigger, more established. So there's a difference between a jet ski church and a cruise ship church. So jet jet ski, you can flip it very quickly. You can turn it around. If it's a cruise ship, you have to pivot a little bit slower. So what we started to do last year actually is first what it started is that my recognition that the culture of our church is already so set. It's not that people are resistant. It's just the way the culture is. So doing small groups regularly without seasons is very difficult for them. It's going to be to swallow. Adding another night like Monday night training is going to be very difficult for people to swallow. Closing potentially internship so that we can do this and launch that online is going to be also to be too many changes. So and people typically resist the idea of changes until their mind is also brought to that understanding. So what we started to do is last year for about four or five months, every other month, we brought in different speaker at the church who preached on Sunday morning about discipleship, exposed our church corporately. Never mentioned what we're going to do. Just exposed our church and then privately exposed our leaders about how this is so incredible. Pretty much get them excited, get them passionate for that. It got to the point where the church was now asking, what's coming up? What's next? We say, we can't tell you yet. They're old me four years ago. Like I told all my secrets or the way and then people that just freaked out and just out that they did those secrets didn't sound very appealing. They actually sounded very scary, but they sounded very appealing in my mind. Remember that meeting of the Philippines? And so so that's kind of where this I exposed the church. We exposed the team to it. And then what happened this year is we took about 10 people of our team and we actually went to a different country where we see a different form of discipleship, but the idea of discipleship is there. To be there for six days, it took a lot of cost from that. And so paying tickets, they getting a work off, but it was important. And I wanted our core team to experience that because if they get exposed to that, it will be easier to present the vision to the rest of the church having the backing of the team. So exposing our church to it, exposing our team to it, then taking our team outside where they get exposed to a lot of exposure, a lot of exposure and also talking about it. Also talking about it, the need and kind of saying, what would that look like? And then we came to the agreement that there are a few things that are essential to our discipleship. And that is we want to, we want people to be mentored, meaning to be discipled in small groups. We want people to be taught. So like this whole Monday thing. And we also want not to have too many meetings because we don't like meetings for the sake of meetings. Most of discipleship programs, they suffer because you have gazillion of meetings. So we want to live our life outside of the church. We don't want every single night to have a meeting. So our requirement really is two nights a week. With our core team, it's three nights a week. So how it works is Sunday morning, we have church Sunday night. I meet with a group of about 12 to 10 men who are pastors, who have their own groups under them. I meet with them every other week. And then on Monday, we do the whole track thing, life class, destiny training and ministry school. On Tuesday is when we have small groups. So the pastors have groups one week. The second week, they meet with their leaders. Because what the problem with most small groups, what they struggle with is this, is that leaders start and they are no longer being poured into. So they burn out quickly. And so, and then the only leaders meetings we have, those leaders meetings are more like event planning and actually encouraging and building faith. And so to avoid that, what we did is that instead of doing groups every week and then having another night where our pastors meet with their leaders, we have groups every other week. And every other week, we have our pastors meet with their leaders. And then I meet with the core team or the pastoral team, I would say, every other Sunday. So the pastors, the people who carry the bigger load have one extra meeting a week every other week. But we become really a family. So meeting with us is not very difficult. We have a hard time keeping it short. And so, and then then now they have a meeting with groups one week and with their leaders another week. So we brought that in slowly. We first talked just between us, the idea is to get the buy in, not to force it in and by providing exposure so that the culture in their hearts can start being set. And once they got the buy in, then we started to present it to the church slowly. And so we're still actually in the process of it. Right now, in next week, we are starting our second life class. So we only limited to 80 people. So 80 people just finished it. They're doing the discipleship school. And then Pastor Ilya is going to start another set. And then in July, we already have people signing up for the July. So if you're a member, new person, want to serve, we have only one path. So how do I serve at Hungry Gen? How do I get Baptist at Hungry Gen? How do I become a member at Hungry Gen? Only one word, life class. Everybody knows there's only one thing we do. Life class after life class, we don't have to tell you about destiny training. We'll tell you that in the life class. You go to destiny training after destiny training, you go to the ministry school. So slowly exposing the team, taking the team to places, bringing places to our team. And then because the church is bigger now, not to Russia. Yeah, so please don't rush it. Let it cook in you. Do not come to the church and burn everything to the ground. Does anybody have it? Okay, go ahead. We're a very small church, so we're still like learning all the ropes and everything in the worship team and all that stuff. Like, what does it look like for, we're trying to get our Instagram account going. So like, sometimes we feel limited. I know we have to put it all through our pastor first and everything. But what do you normally do in that area? Like, do you let your team kind of just take over? You just give them the guidance of this is what I want. And you guys be free to do that as long as it's in that guideline. Or do you, do they have to put everything through to you first for approval? Like, how does that work? Well, it will work differently for a different size of the church. So when the church is usually smaller, it's like a mom and pop shop. So typically a lot of stuff will go through the lead pastor in the beginning, which if you are in that place, I would encourage to begin to delegate more to people who have administration abilities so that people can handle oversight over the teams. Now, the pastor typically is obsessed with like one or two teams. Just every pastor has a weakness. And so usually like, even if he gets completely delegation, there's still going to be one thing that he's going to be like looking at 12 midnight checking if that is done. And so just because every pastor has that for me, it's media, as you kind of probably guessed it. And so even though we have a person that runs that media who is my sister, but she does understand my compulsive disorder when it comes to media. So she's very patient with that and lets me influence her in a positive sense. When it comes to other ministries, we do have a person that oversees the teams. And then we have a person that oversees a team, each team. And then we have a director that oversees the whole ministry. And we actually brought that change just recently. Up to that point, I was really, I would say micromanaging a lot of stuff. I've wrestled with it. The Lord would constantly remind me, you need to delegate more, delegate more. But you also cannot delegate a lot of times if you don't have right people. If the people don't carry exactly your heart and your vision and they, if you don't have the right people, you can't delegate. And so sometimes it's the wrong people. And so when you find the right person that you can trust, 80% already to get the stuff done at different pace than probably the pastor, then the pastor has to relinquish control and let that person do that. And so in our case, most of our, I would say, administration and even operational things are now done by Bryson. So Bryson would be the person to go to and ask him a lot of those questions. And I actually would help to me to relinquish control is when I stepped away from the staff. So I walked away from the paid staff in January. And that actually helped me to give away. Cause as long as I was coming day and morning here, like I always kept tabs on the emails being answered, the phone really like just, just I'm a micromanager by default. And so it makes it very difficult for me to relinquish control. And so when Bryson took over that position, moved from internship to more of like a director of the ministries. So are online and all of the stuff. I still have my own little place that I check usually it's the media. And what started to happen is it gave me the freedom to focus more on preaching, on prayer, building curriculum, building things. And then he handles the HR of the staff, handles the other stuff. And I just manage mainly schedule of services on Sunday, kind of how the services are ran and some particular ministries and kind of tackle big issues. So me and Bryson and Pastor Ilya, we would meet once a week, sometimes once in two weeks, but mainly discuss the big things already, like who we're going to hire, who we're going to let go, or are we going to pivot, how are we going to pivot, how we change, but not the smallest details. He runs all the smallest details. So depending on the size of your ministry, that will be applicable. But I would talk to Bryson and explain your fullest situation so he can give you more input and advice on how you can better serve in your situation. Danny, we're still good at 12 for lunch. If we can put the clock there so that I could be. You mentioned that deliverance is a very important part of discipleship, but how do you disciple a group of people that doesn't necessarily support deliverance? How do you disciple somebody? A group of people or somebody, yes. Well, you typically don't disciple a group of people, you disciple one person. If they don't support deliverance, that's okay in the beginning if they don't have demons. Now, if they have demons and they don't support deliverance, then you're dealing with a deceived person because Jesus said to his disciples, actually, he says, abiding my truth and my truth will make you free. And their response to him was, we've never been in bondage to anybody. Sounds pretty interesting because in the Old Testament, they've been to bondage to everybody. So how can you, I mean, at that moment Jesus was talking, they were in bondage to Rome. So my question is, how could somebody be in bondage to everyone and lives with this illusion? We've never been to bondage in bondage to anyone. So that tells you something, bondage is very deceptive. That's why you meet smokers and they're like, no, I'm not addicted to smoking. I can quit anytime. Just haven't quit in the last 50 years. So when I would even say that I'm not sure if it's a lot of discipleship, if you're dealing with a person who's extremely resistant toward the idea of deliverance and there's no evidence in their life that it seems like they have unclean spirits, I would encourage them maybe to read a book. They're break free. My book is one of them. It's an easy book to read. A little bit heavier book, but a good one. It's called They Shall Expel Demons by Dr. Derek Prince. Very helpful to break some of the strongholds. And that I would just encourage, I'm saying, hey, check out this book. Let me know what you think and then have a dialogue with them. But some people are, they have made up their mind that they are right, regardless of how many proof that you offer them that they are wrong. And sometimes those people, I would just leave them alone depending on how valuable that is in your discipleship in deliverance. If your church doesn't practice deliverance at all, then I don't think you should abandon those people. Keep them pouring into them and just exposing them to the truth of deliverance on the side. Pastor, thank you. So I don't function in the role of a title pastor. My children in the Lord that are now pastors who actually were supposed to be here and then they backed out from Washington. So I'm making a transition from Oregon to Washington to stand in support as an older person in the ministry of what they're doing and growing there. So hitting a homerun win in discipleship, is that anywhere online or can they hear this teaching themselves? HungryGentSchool.com. Okay. Okay. Okay. For real. Yeah, because that's exactly what actually that's going to be. Life class just introduces them to it. Best in training starts going deeper into it. There is a teaching that I did, I think two years ago during pandemic, when we were exposing our church also in the beginning called hitting a homerun. And it's about two sermons. Two sermons, I think there's something online that's out there. I would have to check my theology during those days though. I'm just kidding. Okay. No, there is few sermons there. It's called a hitting a homerun. And then I have one more sermon called deliverance to discipleship. I preached last year and it's on HungryGent YouTube. Okay. They are definitely open to deliverance and they've been following you. I would encourage if they are, if they do not have, so like this is what my encouragement would be is that if you don't have a training in your own church, I would say, listen, before you go and start a training, learn from our mistakes. Take our training, take first one, take the second one. And just honestly, you can, if you cannot, it's a man Monday night, it just doesn't work for me, but I could actually rewatch it. You can rewatch that because we will offer that the next day for the rewatch. And so take it, just go with us and then you can actually take our material as well and tweak it saying, you know what, HungryGent covers this. We could cover something different and honestly copy and paste. If that's what's going to fit your system, don't just copy because we do it, but if you really feel it will fit our system, we will give you our stuff and you can do that. Just don't launch it online yet until our online ticks off. And the last question, pastor, would be as older season people in leadership, what would be your one counsel to us in any of the things that you've covered this morning? So what I would encourage is first of all, I want to introduce my pastor, my pastor, who's all the way there, pastor Vasili, if you can rise. I would ask you to ask him that question. Yeah, because I'm not there yet. So I don't know. So but our pastor is the one that delegated the ministry to us when we were young. And so he's supporting us from the sidelines, not only supporting, instructing. Now it's a little bit less correction because we've gotten better down the road. And so in the beginning, we were very rustic and very bad. That's the word he would use. So we needed correction, we needed constant correction, like every three hours correction. And so but then we've gotten better. And so I think it's maybe we've gotten better. I think we've gotten better. So now it's a little bit less correction. It's more of on just a direction. And so that's that's the role that our pastor still has. So like when you guys will look at us and maybe see, oh, you guys are just a bunch of young people, you don't know what we're doing, sort of true, but not 100% true because we stand on the shoulders of somebody who's planted many churches. And that's our pastor who planted this church. And so and we're also under his umbrella. So we're being covered by that. So major decisions are always not only consulted him, but we get his buy in. And then he's here every single week when he gives us direction as well in any times we pivot one way or the other way. If we do something that just doesn't look orthodox or doesn't glorify Jesus or the way we present that it just didn't glorify Jesus, you can be 100% certain we get a call. So yeah, I love how obedient this church is to discipleship. And my question is at the end, you have them go through ministry. And once you have people complete and they're capable leaders, and this is maybe for this church or smaller churches, what do you do when you don't technically have the space for them? But you know that they're capable and like capable to be sent. But how, where do you place them? I guess when you don't have a place for them specifically. So we do, we do focus more on people being sent into caring for other believers. That's kind of, and there is a place for them because Jesus says the harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few. So we don't try to produce leaders for every sphere of society. First, our number one goal is to produce within them leaders who will care for the lost and then seek to follow up on the new people who get saved and then turn them into believers. So for those, you always have room. Now if you only raise leaders to be in media, in kids zone, only raise leaders who will be preachers. You will always have a shortage of places that wants them. If you stick with the scripture, meaning laborers are few and the harvest is plentiful. The harvest Jesus refers to is not video cameras or diapers. He's talking about people, meaning if we raise leaders who will, like I said, go from a child to the youth, to the father who cares for the lost, then once they graduated from our destiny training, so it's the second track that allows them to start a small group, then the goal actually half of the destiny training starts putting ideas into them to start winning souls on their own, learning how to win souls. We teach them how to follow up on people on their own so that they could come to the altar, pray with somebody as we lead them into prayer, and then follow up to them during the week. And then we teach them how to start a group, how to run a group. And so for those people who say, man, I have so much great potential, we say, great, where are the lost people that you won in the last two months? Well, if you are so anointed, it should work. So unless the calling of a person is more like, hey, but I'm really called more into business, well, that's great. Then you go start a business. So we don't say that this is the only thing you do. If you don't do disciples, if you don't make disciples, you can't do anything else. Everything else doesn't matter. No, but when it comes to man, I have the anointing, I have the grace of God. Now, the moment they say, but I'm looking for the pulpit, we say, well, unfortunately, there's already one pastor and there's like seven of them waiting, you know, right after him that want to take his place. Not in our church though, but and so in other churches. And so there's already that place is kind of taken, but the place that is not taken is where Jesus actually wants every person to be including pastor. And that is to win souls and make disciples. And the sky is, I mean, it's the limit for that. The moment you limit everything to, we just want to build great leaders so they could just be great leaders everywhere else, except where God actually wants us to produce laborers in. And what begins to happen is that we will actually always have shortage of work for them. But if you give them work with people, there's seven billion people, plenty of work. I have a question. The people they call the core team, the serving team. And you have called different as dream team to serve God on Sunday. And I saw the attitude of a lot of people serving here. And that's a good, but do you have any criterias and you have the motivation, how they feel when they are in the dream team to serve the Lord and serve the people. So a very good question. That typically depends on number one, the pastor. So once a month, on Monday night, we do bring all of the team leaders who lead the dream teams and life group leaders. My majority of our small group leaders are also team leaders. Quite few of our small group leaders are also leading a team on Sunday. So they lead a small group on Tuesday and they lead a team on Sunday. And actually it helps because if they have a small group, they can take people from their group to funnel into their team to serve on Sunday. So we actually, our desires to have every team leader to be a small group, but it's not practical right away. So once a month, we do gather all the team leads, small group leaders, our staff and our pastoral team. We do an hour of power where we share first 10 minutes of just the basic stuff coming up. This is coming up, that is coming up, information that's related to everybody. And then we teach for about 20 to 25 minutes about one of our DNAs, our cultures. A lot of times it's really honestly building encouragement in them. And then we minister to the team as a whole. Now because I meet with the pastors, our pastors meet with our leaders and most of the leaders of teams are already in the pipeline of small group mentorship. If they get poured into it, this is where the culture can be transmitted. Now if we do notice for example, that we're struggling with hospitality, then we take it and we begin to take our leaders meeting and really emphasize that and provide some practical things on hospitality. Like I've noticed even as I was coming in and one gentleman came in and asked where the restroom is. And a wonderful person that was standing there pointed the finger and said over there, that's one of our rules. We don't point fingers and we don't show where we take them there. So I come up to this person and I said remember one of our values is we don't point and we don't tell them go right, left, straight and then go three steps backwards and then two steps forward. We actually take them there because our building is very easy to get lost in. So I'm like you don't take them actually to the bathroom because you're a female, he's a male, that'll be awkward. But you take them to that place and say sir, this is where the restroom is at. And so we correct those things. The moment we see constant repetition of something that is bad, we bring it on a whole leadership level, if we see something that's only struggling with one team, we don't penalize the whole church by teaching that thing to the whole church. If it's just one team that needs to be reminded, that we meet with, I would meet or one of our head team leads will meet with that team leader and say, hey, your team needs just a little readjustment or a little correction in that. So it's constantly tweaking, constantly improving on each team. It helps if that team leader is also a small group leader because then they're also involved in mentoring people. But it takes some work and we have still a lot work to do in this area. Thank you. This is maybe part two of the deliverance question. And if you can go into a little bit more, we know that God is the husband man who does the pruning. But as a pastor, how do you go about maybe having to have done some pruning on your own? And maybe this is a tough question that a lot of pastors might have to do. On pruning on ourselves? Well, not pruning on ourselves, but maybe... On the body? Yes. Well, the word of God is a double-edged sword. So I think one side encourages the other side, challenges people. And so we have to speak the parts of the Bible that we are comfortable with and we have to speak about the parts of the Bible that we are not comfortable with. And so this is where I think a lot of the pruning can happen in the body of Jesus Christ when we preach the whole counsel of God instead of just the parts that we like or the parts that could get people to come back next Sunday. And so we have to speak on those truths as well. And that's what I think the pruning happens. It causes people to leave who kind of like, whoa, I can't stand this. And it's okay. Jesus said some things that a lot of his followers left. And so they followed him no more. Jesus didn't run after them and say, guys, what I really meant was let me give you an explanation. Come on, stick around. And they were his disciples. They were not just the crowd. And so I think that every pastor does have to have a deeper commitment. It is painful, though, because we do love people. And we don't want to offend people just for the sake of, like, some of us, you really, maybe some of us have a gift of just, we just love to just piss people off, excuse me, offend people off. And so we just love to just, just, just, just to really offend people. But majority of pastors, we tend to be more people pleasing. We tend to be more, we want to serve people and help people. And so I think that's just overcoming the need to please people to understand that we need to grow people and that we have to preach the truth. But that could and potentially will cause quite few people to be offended. And so we still have to preach the truth and we cannot shy away from that. And that, that's how I believe it brings pruning. That's important not to preach a sermon because you want to correct one leader. And we as pastors, we're good at that stuff and stuff. So it's important you go to that leader and you correct that leader. So you don't build a whole sermon against one person who keeps showing up late. And now you build a whole sermon, how punctuality is a sign of integrity. And you're not looking at that direction, but you really want to look at that direction and says, thus says the Lord, you know. So it's just, it's better to just come to the person and say, listen, I want to preach a whole sermon, but let me just preach it to you, narrow my focus, drink water from the fire hose. Can you share about your fasting culture here? And how do you mobilize a whole church to participate in the three day fasting and prayer every month? So we're just all trying to follow up Ilya. Ilya fasts every other day for the rest of his life. Ilya is like a fasting machine. Sometimes four times 21 days a year. I mean, beast mode. We have a, so this is kind of our pattern for fasting. In January, we do a 21 day fast and then once a month we do three day fasts after that. But in August is when we are going to do a 21 day prayer and most likely shift the fasting from August onward to one day of fasting a week. So that there is just a break of the kind of like the flow of it to get people ready again in January for the 21 days. So because it could get a little bit style. So like we're going to start the fast again Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, right after this conference. So first Monday, first Tuesday and first Wednesday is kind of the goal to do that as a church. Now we also have a larger community online that follows our fasting. And then I've released a fast forward book to kind of help to kind of launch that challenge of fasting. But the idea would be that once a week we encourage Christians to fast. So when we merge three days together a month, it kind of equals to that plus it's a little bit easier to do three days sometimes than to do once once a week for some people. Early church Christians, they fasted on Wednesday and they fasted on Friday. And so from six to about three afternoon. And so we believe that we're not there yet to do two days a week. We'll start with one. And so but that's kind of our ideas three days a month, 21 days once a year. You'd be surprised how many people in our church fasted 21 days on water. I mean, I'm talking about businessman. I'm talking about I was shocked myself. We just kind of told people have the freedom. We don't impose on what they should fast. That's between them and the Lord. We encourage them too fast how they are going to fast because not every person can pull 21 days. And so but I was surprised and honestly shocked with how many people just came to church two months before that went for 21 days. And and I mean, it was it was incredible. So we want to really build a culture of prayer and fasting. Fasting is very important. I think for a local church, it can help to break things that other stuff cannot break. It has a very, very powerful dynamic. And I do believe it's a mark of discipleship. Discipline is a mark of discipleship. Can you share your approach to discipleship school, including activation and deliverance for children? So we're going to deal with a lot of deliverance topics tomorrow. Tomorrow morning, the teaching will be on deliverance and also the Q&A will be on deliverance. We when it comes to deliverance and when it comes to discipleship in here, we first want to activate people more to win souls and to follow up on new believers before we go and start giving everybody a semi-rifle. So we want to give them we want to give them a shovel first. We want to teach people to dig. We want to teach people to care and for to love because it is easier and far more exciting to carry a semi-rifle than it is to carry a shovel. And so and people typically are more drawn to that. There's nothing wrong with it. It's good. And we do have Pastor Richard. He has a also training online that he takes people through of learning how to cast out demons. And then we put those people in rotation to help do the deliverance online first. And then they help us to do screening here at church. And after a while, we release them to do deliverance. Overall, in our small groups, we don't encourage as a culture for our small group leaders to drive out demons. Few reasons. Why? Because the moment you get one deliverance and you start churning everything in your small group into deliverance all the time, you're missing the biggest purpose of small group. And the small group is not supposed to be a hospital. It's supposed to be a home. Nothing wrong with home deliveries. But our goal for small groups, so that's why we have monthly deliverances here. We have deliverances that we offer here. So we tell our small group leaders, listen, the task of casting demons out belongs to every single Christian. Demons manifest, cast them out. No problem with that. What we don't want to do is build a group around casting out demons. We don't want your group to be there because it will die out. Only people will come if there's demons. There's nothing to do about now, but the presence of Jesus, the purpose of Jesus, it's about the demons. And so we don't want to build that. We also don't want the group to turn into a prophecy group. Because the group is good to give prophetic words. There's nothing wrong with that. It's very important to practice the gifts of the Holy Spirit. But if your whole group is two hours, you're putting somebody in hot seed and then everybody giving prophetic words, and that's how it loses its purpose of winning souls and making disciples. So though gifts of the Holy Spirit, casting out demons, all of these things are tools and are arsenal, but they're not the main purpose of small groups. Small groups in this way, you allow any believer who loves Jesus, loves people, can digest Sunday's message for people, can function in that. And we do give them basic training on how to hear God drive out demons. We don't intentionally put them into some kind of an elite demon slaying squad and turn their small group into a Normandy beach. Thank you. Super helpful. My second question is, do you include part of your discipleship school in going out in evangelism within your community? So when we did intership, that was practiced. And it's incredible to help people build their boldness. What we've noticed is that what is more applicable to evangelism that actually brings fruit is to equip believers to live their normal life, being intentional about God, bringing people into their path who are ripe for presentation of the gospel. So that's our approach. We did honestly for about seven years. Every Sunday for one hour, we go to the parks to preach the gospel. But I would say in seven years, I can count on one hand how many of those people that we want to the Lord came to church. And I probably don't remember one person who actually stayed. But when we would teach, and that's pretty much the teaching of our discipleship school is that in your workplace, in your college, in anywhere you are, be attentive. That's why the second track, destiny training, is really focusing them on the heart for souls. Because I don't believe when the Bible says go and win souls, it means that you set this time right now, okay, from now to one o'clock, I'm going to go and win souls. I believe that as you go about your life, be intentional, be attentive, and allow the Holy Spirit to create opportunities in which you can share the gospel with somebody. And it's the same person who orders, who gets you coffee, let's say, in the coffee shop, is more likely to respond to the gospel invitation than a stranger that you approach who will think that you are Mormon. Yeah. I'm gonna be like, no, no, no, I don't want, I'm not Jehovah Witness. You're like, no, I'm witness for a different Jehovah, though. And then you have to explain a lot and stuff. Or the way we would do our evangelism on the streets is we ask for if people have any pain. And so then people think we sell weed, literally. Every person is like, no, no, no, I don't want weed. We're like, no, we're not selling weed. We're not praying for you. Yeah, I know. Yeah, no, we don't want that and stuff. So it becomes very difficult. Nothing wrong with the methodology though. There's at least like six or seven different methods. And one of them is this confrontational, let's go get into people's face. It's fine. I don't think it's very effective in America. In other countries, incredible effective. You go on the streets, literally, people get converted, cry and weep. You take them to the church, they become part of the church. In America, at least in our area where we're at, it's not as effective. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be used, but it's not as effective. What we find more effective or every person can be involved in, and that is kind of like what Samaritan woman did. She went to all the men that she knew. The interesting was all the men and then all the contacts and then they came. They saw Jesus. And so that's kind of most effective. Okay, guys. So we have come to 12 o'clock. Let's rise and we're going to pray for lunch. And this miss Bryson would you Lord, we just thank you for tonight this morning. We thank you God for the time of instruction and the time of equipping Lord. I pray God that the strategies that Pastor Vlad shared today or that they would just sink into our heart God that you are birthing something inside of us Lord to go and make disciples and to become more effective to sharpen our, our craft and to begin to dial in deeper Lord. And I pray in Jesus mighty name that as, as we go throughout this week and God that you continue to challenge us and equip us and grow us in this area of making disciples Lord. And I just pray that as we go and have lunch together and fellowship Lord that you would just help us to network together to make connections and bless the food, bless those who made the food and Jesus mighty name we pray amen.