 That's my pleasure. Thanks for having me right on. So our listeners and AJ and I were all just getting familiar with you. So we would love to hear how you got into a strength training and and what you're doing there. Yeah. So I've been a strength and conditioning coach for 13 years. I primarily work with athletes, military, but also general population as well. What got me into it was it's a simple story, but it was pretty dark. When I was 15, I was hospitalized for a year in my life. And this is when I really this story is really what led me down the path of not only strength training, but understanding the importance of social skills. I was a fairly competitive athlete my whole life. And we had just moved my parents had gotten a divorce. So we had changed schools. And just a lot of my social circle had changed. I had a friends that got, you know, we had played sports together our entire life. Now a lot of them were getting into pretty hardcore drugs. And I don't mean like, you know, the usual drinking and people just hanging out in their parents' basement. Like people that I grew up with are starting to do cocaine and sometimes like heroin and we didn't live in that part. I grew up in Omaha, Nebraska. Right. And so you just saw this stuff. And you know, how I dealt with a lot of that stress of that social circle changing and not really knowing how to deal with my parents divorce as a young kid, you know, because just there's always these the arguments and the fighting is I channeled it into training and working out. That's all I knew. I'd played baseball and football growing up. You know, the problem was you didn't have the right kind of education for what you should be doing at 15. So this was the time where low fat, low carb, all these things were just kind of coming into existence. So like any good extremists, I did both, you know, because you're like, I got to get ripped because that's what these magazines are telling you. I didn't know anything about strength and conditioning. And so I'm working out essentially three times a day eating like egg beaters, turkey sausage and fat free craft singles. And it was just a way for me to channel kind of anger and anxiety and not really knowing how to deal with some of this stuff. Long story short, one day ended up collapsing when I was running, you know, around the track and woke up in the doctor's office and they're like, you know, your heart rate is like 32 beats per minute. I was normally 130 pounds at that age as a high school athlete. I had dropped down to like 97. Really what I was dealing with was depression. I'd gotten this mechanistic just it was almost like you're a drone. All you do to escape any kind of stress or all I did was just strain. Right. You guys had a recent episode on how important pain is and people's lives and how people will chase that. And I think I became addicted to that. That was how I dealt with anger is I just I became obsessed with how far I could push myself. It became that kind of a drug for me. So eventually I was put into an inpatient eating disorder hospital because with my heart rate and my body getting so just whittled away, I mean, heart, the heart had suffered damage, kidney and liver just because I was going through basically a massive catabolic breakdown of muscle tissue. My body didn't have enough calories to sustain itself. And so you're in this eighth floor of this hospital in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Every week you have to meet with dieticians, psychologists, psychiatrists, they met you up. You know, I would try to tell them, you know, that what I was dealing with and they'd be like, no, food's your issue. You know, you're in here because you have unhealthy food behaviors, which they weren't wrong. But what you found is if you didn't fit into the narrative that these folks in this hospital, their treatment narrative, then you were kind of, you know, you were going against the grain or you weren't really listening to them. Now, to give you an idea of how punitive this place was, you don't get to go outside, right? You're on the eighth floor of this hospital, you wake up at 530am, your blood's drawn every day, depending on your body weight, they determine whether you can shower, because the initial shock of hot or cold would send somebody who's malnourished into cardiac arrests. So I spent a significant amount of time, like I'm just sitting here like a week and a half. I'm like, can I shower now just waiting? Yeah, you get weighed in, you sit in a day room surrounded by like plexiglass window, right? When you're not eating, like you're in this day room where you can only watch PG, like type movies, what you read is restricted because if there's anything body image wise workout, like you can even watch Rocky, because you're in there with other patients that have legitimate, right? Like there could be bulimia or it could be this. And what's interesting is you sit there and none of those people really had food, like food wasn't the central thing that these people struggled with. One woman was in her 60s and her husband left her for a younger woman. There was a woman who or a girl who is the middle of nine children, and her eating disorder became like a manifestation of a way to kind of keep attention on her because she just felt like she was lost amongst her siblings. There was a junior Olympic wrestler who had made it to nationals, lost and was beaten by his father. So he had exercise addiction and food related issues, because that was a control mechanism to try to, you know, make sure that he didn't lose again, or he didn't fail. So all these people are in there for different reasons. But you sit in and you do these groups, if you stand up, they knock on the window as a warning, because it's non exercise thermogenesis, you're burning calories, chewing gums, not allowed. Even if you were fidgeting, neither you or Johnny are AJ, but if you guys were fidgeting, you would get a warning. If you got three warnings, you were made to drink and ensure some kind of food caloric replacement, or you were fed intravenously, if you didn't take any of those. When you do eat, which you have to eat six times a day in a massive dining room, which it's a glass table, you get very little say in what you eat, like you get a select off a hospital menu based off food categories and whatever. And let's say we had pizza, and one of you, you know, smudged a little bit of grease from your pizza on the table. Well, they would view that as an eating disorder related behavior. So now you'd have to take the caloric reply. I mean, it was that punitive. So really toxic environment. So long story short, what you realize or what I realized soon is, even though I was around all these incredibly intelligent people, they had all these degrees, all this background, right? They were so much more socially skewed than they were socially skilled. So eventually, I knew two things. One, I needed to get the hell out of there. And it wasn't going to work on the way that they did it. I eventually gained enough weight where I could leave the hospital for like two hours, you get like a day pass as a reward, because you're not allowed to exercise, you're just there solely to crush food and get to a healthy BMI. Right, which their view of normal was pretty skewed, right? Sounds pretty skewed. Yeah, if you didn't put sugar on your cereal in the morning, like you weren't normal, no matter. And I'm like, you do know that half the world is obese, right? That's not an exact statistic. But right, metaphorically speaking. And so I leave and I steal two books. And I had to steal them because like nobody's going to buy me these books, like my parents would come up and visit, but they, they believed what the hospital believed. They see a sick kid and they're like, Hey, just go with this. But I saw a book on strength and conditioning and one on sports nutrition. And I hid them in the book jackets of like a book about golf and something about positive thinking. So we come back in the hospital rifles through the shit, you know, and they're like, Hey, this is fine. I spend the next couple of days reading everything I can on just proper strength training, diet, nutrition, whatever. I eventually leave the hospital. And with this kind of newfound knowledge gained a little over 30 pounds, 30 plus pounds in three months, was able to reverse some of the medical things that were going on with me. And that sent me on a path of one, understanding what the human body is truly capable of if you apply proper strength training and nutrition, and to how none of that stuff matters if you don't know how to talk and connect with people, because people died in that hospital because these nurses and doctors and people could not relate to them, or see the bigger picture of what they all struggled with. Right. They were treating the symptoms and not the root cause. Right. So that just led to a degree of you know, I went and got my kinesiology degree later on when got a master's degree with an emphasis on motor learning. And then a lot of that tied in with social skills and me studying human behavior, and got an internship working with pro athletes, one thing led to another and, you know, skip the boring pieces for everybody listening. But that's how it took place. That's how the initial interest started. Well, I'm mind blown. And I have a bunch of questions now. By all means. So while this is going on, you're in the hospital and obviously your parents have to be incredibly alarmed because here was this very active athletic teenager who who's now is being told has an eating disorder. And, you know, they have to they're going to take some responsibility for that. What have we done here of the fighting? So what sort of state that mentally and emotionally that that put you in outside of being just getting more obsessive with trying to figure this stuff out? Yeah. I mean, it's the core of that. It's funny. The more they kept trying to typecast me, Johnny is having an eating disorder. And keep in mind, I was a competitive high school athlete. And I felt like I was eating what these magazines. So I'm like, I thought of somebody with an eating disorder like what we traditionally think of with anorexia, right? Yeah. And what they had classified me as is anorexia and not otherwise specified because it wasn't that I wasn't eating. It was basically that I wasn't fueling correctly. But what would happen is every time they label or typecast me or even my parents would say something like, Hey, you have an eating disorder. Yeah, I get so pissed that I channel that into even more subversive behavior. So just like kind of like a bad movie. I had time when these nurses would come in and check on you in the middle of the night because again, you're not allowed to exercise at all. I'm a pretty energetic guy. Yeah. So I would time this up and I'd be like doing push ups in between when they would come in because you're just in this prison. You have to work the system. Yeah, you have to and like just this idea of like, so let me get this straight. I'm supposed to sit in a chair all day and eat massive amounts of calories and this is supposed to be good for me and the food quality wasn't high, right? Not that you should be choosy. This isn't some like illustrious rehab center. Not Club Med. Right. Which that's not the point, but they're just they chased the wrong things and you saw a lot of tie ins with strength and conditioning. Coaches will work with athletes and they try to get more and more nuanced or complex with their training methods. When really the simple things done savagely well when you communicate at a high level is what gets people to excel in life. But yeah, without a doubt, it made me way angrier and my relationship suffered because of it with my parents. Yeah, I could only imagine. And then the other thing is, I mean, this was what you were doing that whole comparison and wanting to be or see these ripped guys in magazines and all that. And we're now in a culture where that is everywhere. You're the comparing and the contrasting with the social media apps and everything. I'm sure that's the conversation that you would have loved to have had with yourself at that time. You got to have with these athletes all the time coming in with because they're also information overload. You can find statistics that back up any fat diet as well as this data that's going to to contrast that contradicting. Yeah, well, I mean, and spot the thing that most people don't realize is physical appearance, right? If somebody works with, let's say, a personal trainer or, you know, there's a big distinction between personal training and strength and conditioning. Generally, personal trainers are going to work with people and there are overlaps, right? This is in a universal. There are personal trainers who are performance minded, but generally it's more aesthetics and aesthetics don't really translate into performance. I mean, you look at the body types of Olympians, it varies widely. And there are a ton of people that look like Tarzan and play like Jane. They just so, you know, at the time, I just remember, I wasn't so caught up with having a six pack or would have you. I was just, I've always been infatuated with how far you can push the human boundaries. And that was an obsession that became the drug. But without a doubt, Johnny, I always have to talk because people will see stuff on Instagram. And you know, you understand social proof all too well. I'll have to be like, listen, man, I know that looks cool, but that has nothing to do with helping protect your $35 million a year contract. There's just no correlation. Well, and like you have to constantly find a way to say, I can't just give these athletes a research article, right? The nomenclature there is just, it's not written. It's not like they're not smart enough to understand it. It's just a lot of academics like to hear themselves. Right. It's not interesting, right? It's not a story there. And so you got to transfer it. You have to help somebody understand why doing, you know, rope slams with burpees is going to help them be more agile on the field or why creating some kind of pseudo doggy obstacle course doesn't transfer to a faster 40. And sometimes it's not what those guys want to hear, but that's the job. Well, it's, you know, for myself, I mean, I had to come to the realization of a long time ago of looking at these things and seeing what is supposed to be an elite athlete and like somebody in wrestling or MMA or or or even football and they don't have perfectly chiseled abs that you see in the magazine. So you're like, OK, well, something's not right. This is not athletically elite physical aliteness. This is for pictures. And this is also doctored for the aesthetics. The Photoshop and everything else, the lighting. Now, obviously, working with professional athletes, you're going to have to influence them to get them to follow the protocol that they need to get to that performance. And they're going to be pulled with all this information and what their teammates are doing or what the people that they see online are doing. So how do you get buy in with professional athletes? Yeah, the nice thing about that, AJ, is it's not that different from what you guys talk about, you know, all the time on your show and with what you guys do in your workshops. I mean, it's a multi it's the approach first off depends on figuring out what makes these people tick and actually paying, spending some time listening, right? And that's really, really hard for people to do. Most people have no idea how to not just critically listen to somebody, but empathetically listen to somebody. And I think so many times were we want to sit there and convince and prove ourselves first or we want to be the expert that we forget that you're only an expert if somebody else invites you into their life first. If they believe you're the right. If they believe you're the expert. And so I know how not to do it. When I was 25, I was so insecure because I got into the field like not not young, but I worked with I got to work with professional athletes at a relatively young age and I would almost kind of try to earn their trust and respect by you know, talking in a lot of this jargon, right? Or I'd show them how we planned out their program and when this should when everything's going to peak and what have you. And then you realize like so much of it just comes down to what's important to them? What do they struggle with? What are their hopes or their fears? How do you tie that in with a responsible message? You're not selling them bullshit. You know, but every athlete is going to have something different. So there's this kind of four drive model that two Harvard Business professors came up with that. It's like, you know, people generally fit into and there's over overlay here, but learn, acquire, bond and defend, right? People are going to fit into some aspect of that. So I have some athletes that really love the technical nuances of stuff, whether it's speed mechanics or cutting. I'm going to get really nerdy with them. If you look at some of the linemen I work with, those guys tend to be well, like high drive to bond. They love team competitions. The big teddy bear and they want to play the wide receivers. It's always acquire and defend. So they always want to do who's the fastest between these guys. It's always these one on one competitions. And you can even do that. We'll do stuff in the weight room where you can measure the velocity of the bar when they're lifting it. And that correlates to, you know, a certain quality of athleticism, right? So for example, if we're lifting really heavy weights, the bar speed is going to be lower. That's more force generation. So how fast can you accelerate out of a standstill where we'll do lighter weights moved at higher speeds and that correlates more towards top speed mechanics. So we'll get little individual competitions with guys moving the once they're technically sound, right? Moving the bar at different speeds. There's all these different things, but you got to listen to them and you got to help them understand, like, if you can just summarize what they say, summarize what's important, constantly tie it back. They know that you give a shit. And I think that's just critical, but it's really hard for people to do. Yeah, it's building that trust ultimately. Yeah. And if they don't trust you, they're not going to follow. Yeah. And I think it doesn't matter if you're training athletes or if you need your coworkers to participate on this project and get the slides done on time, you're going to need to get some trust and buy in to move things forward spot on. And if I could be I'll be a little bit more succinct than the word vomit I just did, but I just if there were three parts of it, I just say research, relate and reframe. Research is listening and seek to understand relate is all right. Now I'm going to listen or I'm going to summarize what you said. I'm going to give some information about myself and how this ties in. And then when I reframe it, right, we're going to mesh these two worlds together and kind of show you the new the new vision, right? Again, things that you guys talk about this isn't just athletes. This is to everybody. And yeah, it's harder for people to Well, I just love of these tools that you were referring to of research relating reframing. I mean, there are tools that I think everyone should learn these things that it's always mind blown to me. Obviously, they don't teach a lot of these things in school, but it's it helps with yourself and helps relating with others and helps putting your your reality together in a way that gets you excited about things rather than upset. Well, let's talk about that. I mean, self-awareness is the name of the game here. And what you're ultimately doing as a coach is you're raising that player self-awareness figuring out their blind spots, their strengths and weaknesses, showing it to them so they can work on the right things and avoid the wrong things. So how do we develop our own self-awareness to get to that level of being coachable? Yeah, I'm I'm biased on this and a little bit has to do with my background. But I think true self-awareness comes from having some kind of struggle, right? And that struggles relative. You don't have to be hospitalized and have to be a near death situation. But generally, you find that what's the old like Bruce Lee adage, the teacher appears when the student is ready. So everybody faces some element of the Dunning-Kruger effect. We all think that we're better communicators than we really are. We all think that we're better at a lot of things than we really are. And so generally, I find to get athletes, I mean, considering this is even below one percent of the world's population playing the NFL or even are part of special forces who I work with, like, they've got to experience some kind of failure. And then they've got to recognize that and actually like acknowledge it. Right. And I find that like special forces tends to do that a lot better than my athletes do because the stakes are a bit higher, right? It's life and death. If you if you screw up, they actually have systems in place and special forces where it's like, right, let's study that screw up. It's not okay that that happened, but it is understood that it will happen. Let's go back and check these things off. When you look at the NFL, I mean, listen, every year there's a new number one pick. And and these guys can have tremendous egos, but they're also fairly easily replaceable because it's just a machine, right? It's a sport, but it's also an entertainment industry. And so these guys just somebody throws an interception, they just got to think next ball. And yeah, that's critical for high stakes performance. But also like you got to go back and really own what you see on tape. So to get some guys to listen, I mean, I'll be honest, you've got to sometimes give them a taste of their own blood. Quick story. We had a guy that was one of the top receivers in the NFL. And if you guys ever done like the Versa Climber, are you familiar with this torture device? Yes, I am. So we were doing it was early in the off season. So we minimize the impact just because they've come off of 18 weeks of just taking brutal pounding. So we kind of, you know, there's got to be a tapering period before we ramp it back up. So we're doing a Versa Climber competition. New cat comes in just at rookie wide receiver records in the NFL. Everybody's gasping him up thinks he's the best. And I'm trying to give him some tips because he's joined in a group of guys that have been training for like three or four weeks now. And I'm like, Hey, man, you ever done this? And he's like, nah, I'm good. And I go, Yeah, no doubt. I'm sure I'm sure you're good. But there's like some nuances of this. And he's like, dude, I'm good, just chill. And I kind of put his palm in the hand of my face. And like 24, 24, 25 year old me would have been like, listen, right? But I'm like, okay. And I'm like, three, two go up and they got to do a 30 second interval. Well, three intervals into this, dudes on his back toasted and like guys are just laughing at him. I go, you ready for some advice yet? So I think self awareness comes from a little bit of you kind of having an again, metaphorically speaking, tasting your own blood, recognizing that you you failed somewhere, you're struggling, and then you really taking the time to reflect on that and not just be like, hmm, what did I learn mindfulness? I mean, like really dig in like, why did I suck there? What was my ego telling me? And how can I move forward? And the interesting part about all of this, whether it's special forces or athletes is they're in a constant state of training and their condition to train. And for most of us civilians were not in a constant state of training. And that's why it's hard for us to develop the self awareness. Oftentimes because we don't have that competitive side. We don't have that ability to compare ourselves to what someone else is doing directly, which you do obviously with your athletes. And with the special forces, even when they come through our programs, they are always on to the next training. Yeah, one of their training schedule and they're always training, because they're always in new environments where they need that edge. And when it comes to raising your self awareness, I think another big part of it is being open to feedback, right? 100%. And a lot of times it's hard to develop self awareness if you're just dismissive of all feedback. And think about how great that is for what you guys have done like with this show. You get feedback. I mean, you can listen. There's so many episodes, right? Are you guys in the 700s? Yeah, almost an 800. That's a lot of feedback should you choose to go back and listen. I know I have a really hard time even watching myself coach if I videotape it. And I teach other coaches how to coach for a living. And the point is not to be perfect, right? Nobody's ever going to do any of this stuff perfect. That's what's fun about social skills and communication and any of that. But if you there's so many opportunities for that feedback, it's just whether you want to take it. Do you want to listen back? Do you want to watch it tape? Do you want to ask somebody who, you know, maybe is a pretty harsh critic? But I just remember my my biggest feedback moment is I'm sitting in the hospital watching people do some crazy stuff with these food behaviors, right? Cutting them up into small pieces, smothering stuff and mustard so they can convince themselves it doesn't taste good. But you're sitting there watching all these other people and you're like, well, I'm also in this place like what got me here? Yeah, you know, and so it's always easier to point the finger instead of the thumb. Yeah. And like, I don't like what do you guys do for feedback even for yourselves? Well, I we had a really hard time in creating content, video stuff when we first started. In fact, we found that the best way to do it was to create so much of it that that it was too much to look at. But if if you just created your first piece, you're going to look at it, analyze it, cut it, cut it, the pieces. And you're going to do this until you finally just get sick of it. We just we had a pact to just keep doing it. Yeah, we sat down originally to and we'll talk about YouTube, perfect example of this and how we operate. We sat down and we said, hey, we want to start doing some YouTube videos. We want to figure out what the best people are doing, see if there's anything we can glean from that. And then we looked at our peer group and said, OK, who do we know that watches a lot of YouTube is pretty active on it because we're not really active YouTubers? Who do we know that's really creative? And we literally sat down in a room, showed them our first videos and said, what do you think? And they shredded them. Really? What do they say? Oh, well, they said you're fake on camera. You're blinking your eyes too much. It's clear that you're reading. There's no emotion. You're stiff. All of these things. And we just sat there taking notes. And what we learned is that, of course, the first time you do it, the first few are going to suck. And if you are listening now, you're trying to go back to episode one. Yeah, those episodes aren't as good as episode 700 because over time, you're going to pick up the nuances. You're going to start to assimilate these skills and get things moving. But seeking that feedback is the fastest way to improve. Yeah. Think about how long we would have been doing the same stiff videos. We call them two tools on stools just staring into the camera. No emotion. You know, we would have had 40 of those videos out on YouTube to even go along with that. I mean, I remember shooting a three minute video and both of us will be soaked with sweat from being in front of the camera. They shoot three minutes. Now I get on. We get on. We'll do a Facebook live. We're chatting, whatever it goes. Like, and it's fun. But I remember knowing that days leading up, oh, we're going to be shooting on Thursday and just freaking out. And of course, by the time that day has gotten there and we're there doing it, we're stressed out, we're flipping out, we're sweating, we're not having any fun. And we're like, good. I'm glad that's over. And now we're looking at the video like we can't use any of this. We look terrible. But that's where you touch on it earlier, right? We live in this culture now that I mean, people just want to see this success. And I actually think it's starting to turn, you know, depending on the audience, I think people appreciate the relatability of the bloopers. Sure. I mean, I remember, listen, I'm always running hot. Like, I'm the hottest. I'm the warmest person alive. And this goes back to even in college. I would like I went to college at Kansas State University. So I loved when winter came around because we'd leave the bar the house. Probably I'd be like, I got to take a call. Screw that. I was outside trying to cool off, right? You know, because I'm just like pitting out my shirts. I'm uncomfortable. And then I got into a profession where I could just own that, you know, you're you're coaching out. And it's 120 degrees in Phoenix. You're like, I'm supposed to be sweating. Relax. But even now, if I'm on camera or anything, I just kind of own it. You know, you just realize like, if you're looking for perfection, don't look here. I'm not your guy. And there's an audience that appreciates that. I think also the the end result becomes too important from everything else. And because you want the end result so much, you just finally just give up because you know what you're trying to create. And everything else doesn't matter. Yeah, that's a great point. And I love your three stages of internal identification. If you don't mind breaking them down for the audience here, because I think this is an important lesson for all of us in that development of self-awareness. Yeah, the tricky thing with that is like people, whenever I talk about this, they get caught up on what order this has to go in. And as you guys know, it's less about the order of things. Like, I mean, can that be important? Yeah, contextually. But just do it first, right? So when you look at observation, reflection, progression, the whole point is you need to really research who you are. A lot of people like if I ask another coach and I use a term coach, it doesn't you don't have to be some of the deals with athletes. A coach is a guide, right? But if I ask a lot of people in my field, like, why do you do this? Like you're going to get the response to make a difference. Like, cool. What the hell does that mean? Right. It's nebulous. Right. What does that look like personally and professionally? But, you know, just even looking back and saying, like, why do you do the things that you do on a daily basis? Have you really ever like dug into the whole start with why and not even that? Like, how is that manifested? And what, you know, is this really accurate? Have you asked other people if you're really consistent with this and just continuing to dive deeper? So there's this reflection. There's this observation. And then there's progression. At some point, you just got to own who you are. You know, I think that we've gotten really caught up with productivity hacks and all these other ways to kind of become people or not. It's like so much bullshit. You know, and that's why so many people are unhappy because all they're fed is you're not good enough. Have this morning routine. Do this. Do that. You know what? Like, even when you look at productivity is so much less about time as it is timing. Like, I'm I have to get up in the morning, but I'm not a morning guy. I'm way more productive at night. I'm way more productive between 9 p.m. and midnight. And who's going to tell me that that's not the right thing for me? Right. Just like, you guys have your own routines that are going to be for you. So I think a lot of it is just we're getting really critical about why you do things the way you do, seeking feedback for that, giving yourself more than just surface level responses for these things, getting beyond the bull. I don't want to cuss on the podcast. I've done it a couple of times already. So good. Yeah. And then and then just really progressing that at some point, being happy with where you're at and continuing to just like work on it. But quick getting so obsessed with all the external messaging. Well, yeah, I mean, we deal with a lot of people get a lot of letters and people want to do all these things, but they're so wrapped up and getting it perfect that it's never going to start. Yeah. Now, as a coach for professional athletes and high performers, obviously, you know, your internal struggles, you know what you're dealing with. Have you dealt with imposter syndrome thinking, what the heck am I doing here coaching these high performing individuals without a doubt? I mean, I even I probably dealt with it the most, not even just coaching them. But after I wrote my book, you know, I had gotten told by five publishers that nobody would care about a book on communication and relationships from a strength coach. Because, you know, the public persona or the public kind of image of a strength coach is just somebody that's almost, you know, this guy on the sidelines, it's crazy. You know, to me angry. Yeah. In reality, the majority of the problems we solve on a daily basis are people problems. We got to deal with head sport coaches and their agendas, athletes and their agendas, the medical staff and what they want and all these things. And so I remember I'd gotten turned down and when the book went well and kind of went viral and became a bestseller, I almost felt a guilt associated with it. You know, I had academics telling me, hey, you oversimplified some things. I had some just general readers being like some of this is too technical. And I almost didn't celebrate how the book did because I just felt like I wasn't not not deserving of it. It was just I didn't know how to process it. And I think a lot of that is imposter syndrome. And and you also look into the research of it. As you guys know, imposter syndrome is so much more common within science based fields because it's hard. Like if somebody is solving for cold fusion and then you know somebody else that's trying to cure can't like nothing you do seems awesome because we have a guy now that can literally shoot rockets into space and land them right back where they took off from. Like so there's always this how do you compete? So without a doubt, I mean, and I also get it having a company that teach other coaches how to coach. I'm not a perfect coach and I never try to send that message, you know, but you'll get that and you'll be like am I the right guy to do this? I'm still learning and I'm still growing. So but I would almost turn that back on you guys. Like how do you deal with imposter syndrome or phenomenon or that? Well, I think the first thing is owning it. Yeah. And I think more than ever now it seems to be a hot topic. We did a number of episodes on it and I talked about my own struggles with it. And I think there's more awareness around it than ever. It used to be something that you only felt internally and didn't share with anyone. And now I think people are realizing it and also understanding it is a part of the process of becoming good at anything. You're you part of becoming good at something means you have to take into account your strengths and weaknesses in order to improve those weaknesses. And sometimes those weaknesses will seem greater than they are truly. And when you also the one thing that I will say in all these years of interviewing successful people is it's a common trait of successful people. So, you know, hearing it from people that I consider wildly successful that I look up to is a little bit of a badge of courage like just push through it. It's going to be OK. Yeah, that's I mean that's a key point to to lasting success is not breathing your own exhaust and making sure that you just feel like it could probably be better. You know, I'm also in a field where it's it's almost shunned to a comp. Have you like, you know, it's a field that one of the recurring mantras you always hear strength coaches should be seen and not heard. So to have a brand like I took a lot of heat even when I decided to be more public. It's just not a field where this happens. It's very much. Hey, it's not about you. It's about the athletes. And so when I started writing a book and doing courses or even getting an Instagram account, you know, I took a lot and still do. There's a lot of people that are like, man, it used to be one of us. And now you have this persona. I'm like, dude, I'm just trying to spread a message because a lot of coaches just kind of really glorify this kind of coal miner culture. You know, it's still very much like this glorification of the grind, you know, just work shut up. And and that's kind of what a successful coach is. But a lot of these coaches are burnout and struggle with even going beyond imposter syndrome. Now it's almost depression or when we say burnout, there's this emotional detachment and cynicism. And so if left unchecked, it's dangerous. What about you, Johnny? Like, well, you know, if you're doing something that you love, that you want to be the best at it that you could possibly be, then you're always going to end up doing the work that is going to allow you to know that you're doing your best and you're doing everything that you possibly can. So if doing your best is good enough, then then you then you're there. Yeah. And then you're always working to get better. And you're always and if you as long as you feel good that you're putting that out there that you're doing the work to be the best that you can, well, then you're going to continue growing in that field. So it's something to to settle in and relax with. It does take time. Anything brand new to you, it's going to seem foreign. You're it's going to seem uncomfortable. But it's it's about getting comfortable with it, settling in on it and being OK with that. And surrounding yourself with honest people, you know, I think that's another big thing of not blowing your own exhaust. You know, a lot of times on the team, we can be hyper critical and then we need some of our teammates to reel us in and say, no, this is great. That podcast was a good episode or no, that video is good because we can be so hyper critical. And obviously with the comparison culture we're in, it's always easy to look at someone else's production on this or someone else's project and their success and surrounding yourself with the right people who are not just going to agree with you and say, yeah, that was awesome, but are going to either say, you know what you're right, we can do better or say, hey, we should just hit publish on this has gone a long way to orient us on that. And I think also seeking coaching. So as a coach yourself, are you getting coaching in other areas of your life? How much do you value coaching and strengthening other parts of your side yourself? Yeah, without a doubt, I mean, part of being a strength coach, you have to every two years you have to have a recertification. And so we're it's mandatory. We have to consistently go to workshops and events and things like that and a mix of, you know, practical research back stuff. And you just have to keep that up. So that is kind of ingrained naturally into being a strength and conditioning coach. What I found I needed more coaching in was this kind of stuff. You know, when I stepped out, I mean, people had told me, hey, you should do a podcast, you should do this. And I'm again, it's not, it's not something that's welcomed in in strength and conditioning. So I'm like, nah, nah, nah. And then finally when I decided to step out, like you said earlier with getting feedback on YouTube, I had to figure out like, what's worth doing? What's not worth doing? Oh, even on the business side. Now, thankfully, my father is a financial advisor for 40 years. So I could get a little help with the finance piece. I mean, strength and conditioning coaches don't make much money. The median income's like $35,000. And it's such a popular field because everybody wants to work with athletes and do this. They just get churned and burned. You don't want to do it for 50K. All right, we got somebody else at will. So I had to, I had to get coaching more on the business side of things. You know, when I stepped out and created my own company, I mean, there's no blueprint for any coaches of how to manage their own career. Now, of course there's stuff like the EMIF and all these other books, but to really contextualize it into the limitations of a strength coach, that took some digging. So I almost had to have a pseudo therapist. They had just be like, listen, man, he'd give me all these things that would work really well for kind of the white collar crowd. I'm like, that's awesome. I don't have that money. Or even my team now, like I had no idea how to even do the podcast thing or build a team that would help me with any, how do I write copy to attract the right executive assistant? Sure. I just, I grew up being taught, like do everything yourself, do it humbly and just shut up and figure it out. But there got to a point where it was like, I really needed help. I was getting super overwhelmed and I was getting angry because I felt like I was helping a lot of people but not doing it in the way that I wanted. So just getting coaches in those areas of my life, like how to find the right people, how to ask for help and it's still something I'm learning. Yeah, the getting coaching in the areas that you're not well versed that is only gonna help you be better because we all understand that practice makes permanent. So we don't wanna make any more bad habits than we already have. And then the other thing about this, and I know that people listen to this and they must think, oh, well, AJ and Johnny, they've been doing this for a while. They knew what they're doing and this guy, he's been doing this for a while. He's got it. That we don't have these conversations with ourself about the mistake we just made, how we're going to do it better or the fear that we have about doing something we've never done before. And then we're having this, the same old conversation with ourself and we're working through the theatrics that come with our own dialogue in order for us to do the thing that we know we need to do, even though inside there might be some fear there or that we don't wanna do it. Well, that's why what you guys do is so valuable, right? And the message preaching like put skin in the game, you just gotta continue to sharpen that sword and taking the stress off of what's the end result and just falling in love with the process again, something that really made this country, right? There's a lot of just groundwork that goes into laying good foundations of anything, infrastructure, skills, relationships. And that's, I mean, I think that's the message that even hooked me when I first started listening to you guys was, yeah, they're not really preaching some kind of glorified outcome here. It's just more the repetition, the repetition and the refinement of a skill set, almost like that Euro dreams of sushi, right? Like I love that. Like that dude just, what was he, 80 years old and he's still obsessive about the rice? Absolutely. And the fish and everything. Now people don't care about the rice. You're like, how drenched can this be in soy sauce? You're like, yeah, you kind of apply that to your social skills too, don't you bud? The look on his face. That's a nice analogy. Yeah, it just goes nuts. And I think, you know, to come to that realization that it's not just about the technical skills here. It doesn't matter if you've learned everything you can about strength and conditioning, you still have to motivate your clients to do something. And that social skill component is going to always play a role in any walk of life. And that's why we started the show. That's why we've continued to try to strengthen that. Just like we've tried to strengthen our physical. Now, obviously when you're coaching someone there's going to be conflict. There's going to be disagreement. And I could imagine some of these athletes, they walk in with a lot of disagreement and a chip on their shoulder of what they've achieved already. And now they got to listen to you. How do you deal with that conflict to motivate, to get the end result? But also, you know, you don't want them to fire you. So you're sort of beholden to the conflict in a way that a lot of us aren't. Many of us could just walk away from the conflict if you don't want to. Yeah, it varies. One, you know, there's three things that I try to look at and then I'll give you an example but just to give the audience something tactical, right? Like, I noticed when conflict occurs it can occur from a multitude areas but I try to just siphon it into these three for now. So there's people with internal drives and fears, right, that's inherent. We understand that everybody's got something that frightens them or what have you. And again, I'll give an example. And then there's realities of the environment. Sometimes behavior is elicited just because of the environment that we're in and how somebody perceives that environment. And then finally, there's the other social factors and social agents that are involved. Are they trying to put on a show for somebody? You know, is there a crazy, like youth athletes, you know, their parents even observing can be a huge factor within conflict or cameras. You know, and there's a story that was put into ESPN, the magazine of a conflict I had gotten with an NFL player who was our first time working together. I'd worked with his brother and he comes in and it was just supposed to be, like, we're like six to eight weeks in this program. Like, we have a thing like, oh, it's a finely tuned machine. And all of a sudden like six cameras come into this place that's like 2,500 square feet. And some guy named Todd comes in from ESPN. They're doing an E60 series. There's a boom microphone. And like, these are like the place that I co-owned at the time. This was a discreet place. The cameras aren't welcome, right? Athletes don't go there to be filmed. But now we have cameras and boom microphones and they're like, can we turn down the music? And I'm like, what is going on? And the guy like shakes my hand and won't even look at me, no time of day. So, you know, we started, I'm like, hey guys, I announced it to the group. I'm like, sorry, obviously we have some distractions today. Like just, you know, keep doing it. Like it's not like it's like 50 to 60,000 screaming fans, you guys are used to it. Just pay it no mind. There's no chance that's gonna happen. When there's cameras on there in this culture, everyone changes. Right, so now all of a sudden, all these people that were really technically proficient and a lot of the lifts and things that we had been working on, it all just goes crap because the cameras are in their face. Now there's one guy in particular who I'm working with for the first time and I had taken him into his side and I'd just been like, hey man, like I'm really big on technique. It's my job to protect your career. Like I know you got something going on here, but like lock this in, you know? And we simplified things for him. But it starts doing, we were working on a clean and jerk progression, right? And it just looks sloppy and sloppy and sloppy and the camera's zooming in on everything this dude's doing. So I'm like, hey, go down and wait. I'm refining some technique. Not guy keeps putting the weight back on. And I'm just like, you know, and you gotta give ground to gain ground sometimes. So I'm like, all right, I'll give him another set. Looks like crap, looks like crap again. Eventually it's just getting crazy because now all these other guys are trying to keep up with him and they're slapping on. This is why I say social factors, right? Social agents involved. Now it's like a peer comparison. And these are the most competitive athletes in the world. So I have to flip off the music. And I'm like, listen guys, like technique is crap today. I get that there's cameras, but we talked about this. Lock this in. I go, this is your career. Like you get hurt. And all of a sudden I get ready to turn the music back on and I hear, are you talking to me? And I turn around and it's the new cat. And this dude's like, you know, six, three, six, four. I mean, 200 and damn near 70 pounds. He's like, I go, if the shoe fits, man, I'm talking to anybody. Technique's critical. Quit being sloppy. You guys are professionals, right? Like give them a reputation to live up to. Well, we had a new staff at the time too. And I had just written my book and these guys are waiting to see like, do I give them the heat? Cause I can naturally be a little bit more of an aggressive persona if I don't, you know, check that. I'm a little brother, right? You grew up getting your butt kicked enough, like you fight and you scrap. Or am I going to handle it via some nuanced social skill tactic? The right answer is a little bit of both with these guys. And so we get into an exchange for a little bit and it starts to get nasty. And then I start noticing his eyes are darting to the side every time. And he just keeps darting to the side. What do you think's to the side? Cameras, they're all rolling. And I realize I'm not winning this argument. So I back down, I take, you know, I take the temporary L and I'm like, listen, all I'm saying is I'm trying to make sure you don't get hurt. Don't be an idiot. This doesn't need to be an argument. Flip some music back on. Right then I go and switch three exercises in his program to things that are a little bit more self-limiting, meaning if he screws them up, the low, the risk of injury is pretty low, right? Like it's a push up, self-limiting. If you get tired and you start doing it crap, you're gonna drop a farmer's carry walking with two dumbbells, self-limiting. Grip's gonna give out a prowler or sled push, self-limiting legs. And so he thinks that like he's getting some kind of individualized workout. The reality is he had to get moved to the kitty group. You know, and then afterwards, afterwards once the camera's quit rolling, I go up and I'm like, listen, man, like that, this is my job. My job is to make sure that you can sustain long-term success at the highest level. And he goes, oh yeah, that's cool, man. I wanna make sure that it was a good show for the cameras. And I'm like, you mother, you know, but like that's what I mean. You've gotta identify when there's conflict. Is it happening at like this intrapersonal level? And is it the environment, right? Is somebody, a lot of fighters that I work with, they don't like the weight room. They think lifting weights makes them slow. And that's not true. But I understand that when they come in there, they're fairly reticent. So I've gotta be compassionate to that. To go along with it, we're almost at a place where when does the show stop? Especially if you were an athlete and the attention is always on you. There's an argument to say that the show doesn't stop. And it's always on. Well, Johnny's just getting over AB, leaving the Steelers in the show a little bit more. I feel like you have more to say on that. Did you elaborate? Because I just trained a wide receiver that's going in to be a part of the new wide receiving crew. Oh, okay. And you should hear, I got a lot of inside information here. This is not a sports podcast. I'll table that. We'll have that outside of this podcast. But exactly what you're saying, this understanding of where is the conflict coming from first. I think everyone feels conflict and their internal kicks in. And they're like, okay, I don't want to be here. And when we are adept at handling conflict, the first step is identifying, okay, what is the root cause of the conflict? Is it truly me? Because we can handle that. Is it environmental? Because we can also handle that. And I love in that story the understanding that sometimes you have to give ground, right? It's not about always being the alpha and being the dominant one and winning every competition and conflict. Sometimes it's being able to walk away, take the L, reassess, readjust, and then know that the next time you're interacting, you're going to be in control. You're going to be able to handle it. Yeah, spot on, AJ. It's power dynamics, right? And sometimes just look at chess. Sometimes you got to sacrifice something in the short term for the long play. I mean, anybody that's been married before understands that. It's impression management and it's purists. Like you've just got to, and those things aren't, I think it's funny and this is why I appreciate what you guys talk about is people think that influence and persuasion and power dynamics are these dark Machiavellian things. They're not, you do them every day, right? It's just like fire or physics. It's neither inherently bad or good, they just are. It's all in how you wield it. But yeah, without a doubt, sometimes you just got to take a step back and be like, maybe I'm the problem. Or sometimes you run from conflict. I think people think conflict is also bad. You have to cross wires if you want to create sparks. What's bad is being passive aggressive about it and walking away from conflict all the time because it's a skill, just like any other social skill that you've got to refine. Yeah, and the management of it is going to be important. People think they could just walk away and avoid the conflict. Well, guess what? Now sweeping under the rug, it's going to turn into an even bigger conflict later. So understanding and dealing with it is a concept that we've covered on the show and it's great to get your input in that story was so illustrative because I know for me, it took a while for me to get into working out simply because of the environment. The environment caused a lot of stress for me. I didn't like it. I didn't like the endless comparison, especially here in LA. And my ego is taking a bruise because I wasn't racking heavy weights. I wasn't. And now it's funny because we're in an environment that's more supportive and we work out at a gym with these NFL athletes, quarterbacks and linemen. So you see all sizes. And it's funny because they're getting beat up, they're seeing us get beat up and we're able to laugh about it now. Even though we're not racking the same amount of weights, we're watching the bar bend with them. It's certainly not bending with us, but there's that mutual respect that's earned. The mutual respect is great. I remember the first time rolling in here like, this is where we're going to be working out. And I remember pushing the sled for the first time in my life. And only to have those guys who pointed me and laughed and go, oh, you guys are in for it today. Now, you know, when you see those things on television, you're like, oh, that looks like fun. Now you're doing like this ain't fun at all. And just those guys having the appreciation that we were doing the workouts that they were doing, pushing that thing was pretty, was great. And there's, there's a distinction here that I want you to help us understand a little bit more is how to be more responsive without being reactive, right? Cause you understand yourself. You understand that you can fight fire with fire, right? That younger brother mentality, but that's not going to help you. Being responsive is going to help you not being reactive. So how do we differentiate those two and allow ourselves to be more responsive without having that emotional reaction? Yeah, it's tough because you have to utilize time, right? You just have to take a step back for a moment. And I think that's why it's even more important. Everybody understands aspects of social skills. You have to, you have to distance yourself from the situation and be like, what's the issue here? Now I, I am always of the opinion that generally if there's miscommunication, it's usually on the fault of the primary communicator. So if I have an issue with an athlete or anybody, like I'm usually going to accept blame for that. So in that moment, I'm going to sit there and kind of go through this checklist. You know, did I not speak the language that they understand? Did I not take the time to really listen and reflect? You know, is the timing off and timing is critical, right? Or, you know, do I just need to be patient with this? Because sometimes people, if a message isn't received well right off the bat, they think the whole thing's blown. And this is in normal life. This is in, you know, competitive athlete world, anything like there's going to be some botches here. And so being able to take a step back and understanding like now I box competitively when I was in college and prior to that. So it's a counter punch mentality. And sometimes like not every punch is a knockout. Sometimes it sets up the next thing and whatever. So that to me is the analogy I always look at is, am I going to react or am I going to reflect? Or, you know, how am I going to respond to this? I just think like what punch metaphorically again, and that might be a bad metaphor, but what's necessary here and what needs to be moving this forward. And just understanding that most of the time I think what most it's valuable for your listeners to understand a lot of these athletes even at the highest level are super insecure, super insecure. And we all have those inherent insecurities. So just even accepting that there's some things you don't even need to respond to directly. You know, I think everybody gets into that react mindset because they think they have to fill this gap or they have to fix something. I'm bad at that when we're at a dinner, we're at a dinner last night. And there's this moment of silence when I was like, somebody was talking to me and nobody else in the table was talking to each other. And I almost got caught not listening to the individual talking to me because I felt like I had to bring the rest of the room back and I'm horrible at that, horrible at it. I don't know what that is. Maybe it's just growing up with divorced parents and like you become more attuned to this environment of wanting to reduce tension or any ambiguity. That's why like in college, I'd always be like the DJ guy because I, you know, you just like kind of manipulating that environment. But I don't think there's always a response necessary. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. And I think for a lot of us, we've been conditioned to that reaction and it's the self-awareness and understanding that sometimes that reaction doesn't serve us and working through it. And it is a process. Handling conflict is a process. No one is just gonna turn the switch and all of a sudden you handle conflict but understanding how you tick allows you to understand how other people tick and then understanding when is the right time to lean in and when is the right time to not be reactive is important. I think this is a nuance that I'm really interested in and I know a lot of our audience and some have even written in saying, you know, we can't afford coaching. We don't have personal trainers. You guys are talking too much about getting in shape. That's not of interest to me. But I do wanna talk about motivation. And when we think about professional athletes, a lot of us think about them as just being hyper motivated, right? They have millions of reasons to be motivated according to Torello. And so how do you take your personal training clients who maybe aren't high performers or just regular individuals, civilians, so to speak and tap into their motivation and how do you find your own motivation, right? Cause some of our audience is like, I can't afford a coach. I don't have a coach. How can I find my own motivation to push forward? Yeah, I'll touch on the first one. First of all, it's just meeting people where they're at. You know, when you talk about how do you deal with people that are having trouble finding their motivation? I think that you look at it and again, this is just being the son of a financial advisor with the idea of compound interest. Like I'm really not worried about somebody setting a PR or creating something like, it's so funny. Like I don't ever, even if I see somebody that is tremendously out of shape, jogging, I never think anything about that other than good, that person's making the choice to move, right? And so I don't even look at this stuff as working out. I look at it as movement and that is gonna manifest itself in any number of ways in somebody's life. And so I think meeting them where they're at and just managing those expectations and letting people know like, because again, having worked with Gen Pop usually they're like, oh, we know you train athletes. Like I'm not at that caliber. I'm like, dude, I could really care less. I'm here to just help you kind of improve day to day and this is a process like any other. Let's rock and roll. And I think disarming the conversation and just making sure you talk about things they do enjoy. Like very rarely is a conversation ever about anything training related other than, you know, I'll give them the technical know-how and what they need to do and the necessary feedback, but I'm far more interested in their life. And that goes back to that old Dale Carnegie principle like to be interesting, you have to be interested. And I find it, I love it because I learned so much from other people and just having a chance to connect with them in their lives. So I think that's critical. I think anybody, even if they ever do decide to find a coach, that's what you wanna find. You wanna find somebody that, yeah, they hold you accountable, but it's not like what you see on TV. You come watch me coach, this isn't this like extreme, oh, let's go. Like it's just like, you know, it's relatively chill but it's also process oriented. That's that piece. And allowing people to see their improvements, right? I think for us as coaches, one of the most difficult things and one of the reasons we brought video work into the boot camp itself is because a lot of times it's easy for us to see the improvement in others and our classmates and who around the gym is setting their PRs, oh, they're crushing it. It's very difficult to see your own improvement internally. And that's what a good coach can do. A good coach can motivate you partially by tapping into that environment, tapping into the emotion and then also allowing you to see those small victories as we say here so that it can fuel you to keep moving and keep progressing. Yeah, I'll go ahead, Jenny. Well, I was just gonna say, and even then, I mean, you could show them the results and sometimes even that's not enough and it takes a crowd around them to all point it out and then slowly for that person to slowly gonna have to accept that if everyone is seeing the same thing, community creates belief. And a lot of times you're gonna need that community for it to finally sink in. And we've had a number of clients who've either lost a lot of weight before their program and they're trying to get their mental confidence, so to speak, or after the program they've gone on to lose weight. And the one thing they always say is that they still kind of feel overweight because even though their physical has changed, their mental hasn't quite caught up with the transformation. Yeah, well, listen, it takes six to 12 weeks for any true physical manifestations outwardly to display themselves. But when somebody starts being more active or just moving more regularly in general, internally there's a ton of changes that take place. I mean, most people don't even know that like, angiogenesis, the body creates new blood vessels and enhances just the circulation capacity. My mother's 68 years old and anybody, no matter what vocation you're in, if you're an expert or even if you don't consider yourself an expert, they know that your parents will never listen to you. So my mom would ask me for advice, but she never really listened to any of it. Well, finally, she just, my father had had a stroke and I think they just realized that, hey, this is an age where we've got to start doing more. Now my mom, and she wouldn't mind me saying this, she's overweight but she's really fit. And any athlete or any person I work with, we give them a card where they track everything, we give them progress reports and visually we try to make that engaging so it's not just looking at some crazy spreadsheet. But at the end of the day, what my mom would say is like, I can get up and down the stairs a lot easier, I can do this, I'm not getting as winded doing that. And that's what most people should really just strive for if they're struggling with getting into a routine, is fitness is really defined as an organism's ability to complete a task. Fitness is not what we show on magazine covers and ripped abs and all that. Again, a lot of the athletes I work with don't even have that. It's just day to day, are your day to day responsibilities, are they as taxing on you? Do you have the energy to meet the challenges and the demands of what's going on in your life? Whether that's going upstairs, whether that's carrying stuff. A lot of people are like, I just wanna play with my kids and my back not to hurt. Awesome, go for that. And so I think those things become somewhat self-evident. People just also have to have realistic expectations. It's gonna take six to 12 weeks to see anything physically manifest at the level most people I think are conditioned to wanna see. Does that make- Absolutely. And in terms of motivating yourself to take on those challenges, to push through, what are your motivational tactics for yourself personally, not just for your clients? I think I just, I know that I've just gotta get moving because there's days, believe it or not, as a strength and conditioning coach, you don't wanna train. But whenever I feel like that, I take the dogs for a walk and core body temperature goes up. My mind starts racing, I start thinking about things. You're gonna get synovial fluid, just that lubrication and the joint. Everything starts feeling better. And then generally, I'm ready to train after that. So I know if I can just get through a five minute warm up routine or if I can go for a walk, if I can just get some blood flowing and change that physiological state, even at an acute level, then I'm usually good to go. But that is important for to note, we're not a bunch of fitness junkies. I don't wake up every day at five a.m. and just like, time to squat. There's plenty of days where I'm like, I just need to move today. You know when I travel especially, you gotta take some heat off yourself. Most people try to do this stuff over the holidays or really stressful periods. There's parts that you need to mark off your calendar and just say, what are the most stressful parts of my year generally? And guess what? During those time periods, don't try to do some major overhaul. Right, build new habits, try to put in a new fitness routine. Just check it off. Check it off. And where you have gaps, cool. That's a time to try to implement some kind of more significant change. But remember, it's all just compound interest. Do get going. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Tons of information around getting buy in, building trust and ultimately motivating yourself and others. We really appreciate having you on the show. Where can our listeners find more about your coaching and work with you? Yeah, just try to keep it simple. It's just artofcoaching.com. I like that. It has a good ring too. Yeah, right? There might be some relatability there. And then books on Amazon and all those things. But if anybody, it's my pleasure, it's my honor. I mean, you guys have been doing some tremendous stuff for a long time. So to learn from you guys and have the opportunity to interact with you is an honor for me. Thank you so much.