 It's a little bit after seven, so I'll call the order to the community of the whole meeting and I will start with asking for a roll call Burgs Surda present Davis graph Hannah Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer Montemure Radke Ryan Susha excuse Vanderwill here for Hassel excuse 13 present We have a quorum, so I will begin with asking for a presentation regarding the USS Edson Thank you very much and good evening to everybody here We did as we put together a real quick presentation different than our first one that kind of addresses some of the issues that have been brought up Just the first couple slides to rehash kind of our project It's a way to bring more visitors and dollars into Sheboygan Historic naval and military education is one of our missions Dockside cruises involves having youth groups come on board the ship and be able to spend the night a veteran's memorial Military reunions are a very big part of these historic naval ships and a place to hold gatherings and social functions a Little bit about the USS Edson. She is a national historic place Built in 1959 and served until 1988. This is One thing that I really would like to emphasize is that a lot of people have referred to this ship as a World War two ship and I don't want to mislead anybody the ship was built after World War two However, it is named after a World War two hero, so that could be where the misconception was with that It was named after Major General Merritt Edson a Medal of Honor winner Three tours of duty in Vietnam providing close-in gun support Featured in an episode of the Twilight Zone and was on display in New York at the USS Intrepid Museum from 1989 to 2004 and One of the interesting facts about when it was there is and during the 9-11 attacks It served as a recovery post for firefighters, which is also part of our mission statement The first issue that we'll address is parking Possible solutions or also things that are important to talk about is one of the conditions in the conditional Release is that we complete a successful? Parking study, so this is something that if it is not successful either the city and on us have to sit down Or it becomes a big hurdle We also will be paying a parking assessment to comply with the parking district So we're not trying to shy away from that one of the ideas that that has surfaced from some people is to use the water taxi There are four current pickoff and drop-off points. This could be expanded to include also the ship Street parking further west on South Pier Drive utilizing a shuttle We can always pick up a shuttle very similar to like the Milwaukee County Zoo Mobile and be able to get Tourist back and forth between the ship and where they're parked and remote parking utilizing the transit services of the city sightlines Here is a current overhead view of Sheboygan Harbor and where we would like to put the USS Edson The sightlines are both from the east end of Blue Harbor and from the Sheboygan Yacht Club What we have done is we have taken pictures and be able to drop the ship into that to the spot to be able to show You what the ship would look like the way this was done is there were two people Standing on the pier 418 feet apart with flags we took a picture of that and then was able to drop the ship in there, which is to scale So this is from the east end of Blue Harbor and then from the Sheboygan Yacht Club One of the hard things in doing these type of pictures is being able to recreate the notch as realistically as possible overall size This picture shows you a cross-section of the Edson and also gives you an idea of the different decks For instance the main deck is the main line that goes on the towards the top of the ship So this line right here is the main deck the first level up is the 01 level and then they go 02 and 03 The reason we want to tell you this is because the overall length of the Edson is 418 feet the 01 deck Goes 238 feet. So just over half of the ship at the stern or the back end of the ship The ship will only be 4.2 feet above the seawall The bow being a hurricane bow will be 19 feet above the seawall, but this is because the deck as you can see goes up The tallest significant part of the ship is the stacks you can see in both on this picture right here The top of that stack is for 44.2 feet above the seawall I'm sorry 44.6 feet above the seawall The height of the 01 deck, which is the first deck above main deck is 12.6 feet So this gives you some idea of how if you're standing on the south pier where the tops of these will be local support Here's a list of businesses that we have gone to and have supported the USS Edson project One of the most important ones here because it's always been brought up is the developer of where the green warehouse was going To be supportive of the project considering the proximity of that condos to where the Edson would be and you will notice the first name on There Paul why is he real estate he is very much in support of the project in fact when we met with him He joked that he kind of wished the ship was closer to the condos because he thought it would be a selling point Other support the shabuigan press had a poll for us, which we won 58 to 42 percent There's been over 4,000 cards of support that have been signed pretty much in the last six months is when we started doing that Campaign as far as getting the support card signed and forums on local website have showed much support for the USS Edson In fact just a couple of real quick quotes from some of the people that have posted Edson is a gift that will cost the city nothing Why can't the council approve the concept allow the group to move forward with their needed studies and see how that works out We're not allowing the group to show us the benefits fundraising a Professional fundraising company has already been talked to and will be contracted to run the major capital campaign This will not center in shabuigan Of course, we would like to see some support financially in the city But that is not where we plan on getting the bulk of our money from this is going to be a state and nationwide endeavor To put it in Perspective this oversimplifies it, but you get an idea in Wisconsin There are approximately five hundred thousand veterans if each veteran gave ten dollars you're looking at five million dollars now Once again that oversimplifies it, but you get an idea of where this money can come from There's also going to be donations and partnerships with major corporations People and companies that have built things that are on the ship that becomes a natural way to be able to raise money Grants from federal agencies state agencies. There are a lot of monies out there available for economic redevelopment In fact the USS Saratoga Museum in Rhode Island recently received a grant from the federal government to redo the pier Where the Saratoga will be moored? Plan giving an estate planning will provide for future repair of the ship If needed and also allow us to set up the USS Edson Scholarship Endowment Fund We believe that we should be able to give back to the community that is going to support us emergency access What has or can be done or groups that we can talk to to get their assistance? Obviously the shabuigan fire department and the course guard Both of them will have big inputs into how we can do this The Edson has been a museum and has been upgraded for fire detection in a tour where I was on her in June You could see there were all kinds of Upgrades as far as smoke detectors and things like that that will help with that all fuel oil will be removed That is a Navy regulation. We cannot have fuel oil on board And then redesigning of the South Pier to allow access for vehicles This will be done with the input of the shabuigan fire department. Oh, that is true. Thank you very much There is a there is going to be a supply of fresh water aboard the USS Edson for our overnights And then the fire mains on the ship can be activated for that as well So that is our Presentation tonight of the issues that have been brought up since we talked to you last So now if you have any questions during your discussion, please feel free to ask myself I'm Chad source the museum director and this is nor baby who is our plans and training officer He has unique insight into these type of vessels because his sister ship or he was on the sister ship Which was the USS Morton so he kind of has a working knowledge of these type of vessels. Thank you Questions from the alderman alderman Hannah. Yes. Thank you Just a quick question Where is the USS Edson now? Where is it currently it is in Philadelphia at the naval inactive ships area? Thank you. All right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was just Wondering how much money do you need to bring it here and how much have you raised so far? The total project cost will be between eight and ten million dollars Now this includes all of the money to actually physically bring the ship here to more the ship here to have the Dredging and the peer redesigned to have operating expenses for five years and to have money set aside in case the ship fails So we have to have a return bond so that money is all inclusive into that So that's the total project cost from start to finish now as far as what we have raised so far Do you have a total on that? We have not we've not been able to raise significant money because People aren't willing to give unless they know there's a place to put the ship in the I think most of you know we had originally started trying to bring any ship to milwaukee and With the money left over from that project We are applying that to this one and I believe we currently have about $20,000 in the bank and we have raised well over a hundred thousand For the preliminary work and in both ships Thank you Thank you. I'll remind all the men want to know. Oh, thank you chairman for hassle Who has the authority over the ship presently? Are you asking who owns the ship? Yes, the United States Navy currently owns the ship and will own the ship even when it is on display at any city All of currently I shouldn't say all the majority of the vessels that are on display as historic naval vessels right now Are still the property of the United States Navy? We are simply the caretakers and and that and it will remain that the Navy owns it Absolutely, and one of the one of the things that the Navy does is they were periodically come and visit the USS That's under any of the other ships if they feel it is not being up Kept up to their standards either we have to take care of that or then the ship gets towed away at our expense Okay, one more about this because the Navy owns it and we'll continue to own it which makes perfect sense, right? Who then has the financial? Responsibility of maintaining it the Wisconsin Naval Ship Association, so us the Association That's the Navy. No when son correct. Okay. Thank you Thank you all in the month mirror all of them in Hannah. Yes. Thank you. Thank you very much There was quite a bit of news on the radio today from the Corps of Engineers about our South pier Stating that the project had been There's no argument that the pier needs to be rebuilt But apparently the the Corps has pushed that project line back on that comment on the timing Let's say you receive approval or the go-ahead from this council What is the timing of all this coming together? If everything works out to plan which we live in a real world, so that never really works that way the Soonest we could have this ship here would be late summer early early fall of 2008 Now chances are this is going to be at least a two-year project the application process through the Navy is Extremely complex not only do we have to have money secured, but we have to have a museum plan a towing plan We have to present all of this to the United States Navy. This isn't something that's going to happen overnight by any means I might mention also that We understand the problems with a pier and one of the reasons that we've got a Not real sure what the total project is going to cost is if necessary we will try to pay for Repair and upgrading of that pier up Through the point where the edson will be moored We are also intending to try to get some push from our federal politicians to get money appropriated to Get that pier repaired at an earlier date, but if we can't get it done through the government will try to pay for that ourselves Thank you Alderman Davis. Thank you chairman Fendi will have several questions for you How many members this one's they have how many people are involved in your organization? At this at this stage of the game, I think we probably have about 40 members You say it's in a museum configuration at this time do you have rooms? meeting rooms, etc areas that have been cleared for Meetings and social yes gathering yes Is it functional now? What's functional on the ship now? electricity Chad Chad was there this summer The ship has power so the electricity all works on the ship If needed be I'm sure that they could work on the engines to be able to make those work But the Navy really isn't fond of doing that the Restroom capabilities those are all up to current standards the galley works Because during a lot of times for the work crews that would come on and do the maintenance The old director of the Edson would actually just cook for the men that were on their raid in the galley So that is currently operating as well And even as far as the forward five inch mount can still fire blanks if need to So there's there's quite a bit of the ship that is is already I mean, let's put it this way when I took when I went through the ship in June. There wasn't any part that was closed One other thing that I Know you have a very aggressive schedule on your estimate of people that would be touring this, you know And it surpasses the the museum and Manitowock and I Ten a question that was numbers there on your bill the way We came up with those numbers if you look at the Manitowock MSA, which is a marketing segment area versus the Sheboygan one Sheboygan is a lot bigger. We are also closer to the Milwaukee market Which will lend a little bit of help as far as getting people into the ship now That being said we could be overestimating our numbers These are our preliminary numbers that one of our studies will be the feasibility study that we want to do Once the lease has been approved we'll start to show where numbers will be more accurately One of the things that we will have that they do not have a Manitowock is Destroyer reunions The number of destroyers and people has served on them much surpasses that of submarines and These people like to have their reunions at destroyer sites. It's It's a very popular thing mostly ships have our unions every other year and I think that we will get a significant increase of tourists from these Destroyer reunions Thank you all in the recce. Thank you. Mr. Chairman of a couple of different questions. You mentioned Milwaukee. What happened? Why did Milwaukee say no? Well now one thing that has to be understood is Milwaukee was a completely different vessel and that was the USS Des Moines Which is a heavy cruiser and that's what you started with here, but you started with it there Correct was the original concept right what happened? Why didn't walking that wanted you came up to Sheboygan? That's the first question. Okay first the USS Des Moines was sitting decommissioned for 40 years The amount of work and money that would have gone into that project probably surpassed 30 million dollars The area that we were looking at on the lake is a very hotly contested area that they would like kept empty Okay The I think the cruel truth of it is we had cards of support for that project and excess of was 50,000 Cards of support for the project there were a handful of People in Milwaukee area Movers and shakers who for one reason or another did not want the ship there Also the Sierra Club and the parks people were vehemently against the project and Due to that relatively small number of people but very influential that We didn't get to first base there Okay, and next question you're talking about the seawall and the Army Corps of Engineers pushing that back a few years What would be wrong with looking at going up the river say up to the first bend and moving it up there? Where would be more accessible to the street more accessible for parking now say in the Northwest? Cornered by the first bend the river just before the road review Park What would be wrong with going there you're talking about you're willing to pay for the Reconstruction of the south pier if you would need to yet. There's dredging cost to get it up the river a little bit further I mean what would be the The trade-off to something like that I mean you're gonna also have to worry about the environmental contamination with the PCB sediments that have Been a problem. It's river for the past 30 some odd years, and that's gonna be a problem either way We had originally looked at having the ship further up river, and I think that we Could certainly take a look at that again, but When we were talking to some of the city departments that did not seem to be an option there will be Dredging costs involved on that and there may be Possible problems with the Corps of Engineers Because of the width of the ship blocking passage there I Would say that we could look at that again We I don't think we we have it in stone that the ship has to be right exactly where we put it but Everything that we've done so far seems to suggest that that is the only and best spot for it If somebody can show us Up river is better. That would be fine as far as the PCB contamination. We've talked with the DNR people As well as the Corps of Engineers in the area Where we're currently putting the ship it is suspected that there is No serious contamination there because the ship had or the harbor had been dredged I believe it was in the late 80s if I remember right and a lot of the PCBs were removed then and most of the sand That's there now has been washed over from the south side of the pier The problem that should be reduced when the pier is rebuilt because we're going to be building it at a higher Higher Above lake level to help prevent that sand it was the Corps of Engineers that came up with this idea of putting the ship there with that slot and I don't know if that answers your question Someone that's it for now. Thank you Thank you alderman reckey alderman Ryan. Thank you, mr. Chairman I Was wondering if you could explain to the council Captain dick Caswell has been kind of the spearhead of this project and he's not here this evening for An obvious reason that I'm wondering if you could explain to the council on captain Caswell position in this whole thing Our organizational president captain dick Caswell was working on his house And when he was coming down off of his ladder the ladder decided to fall off the house So he he took a nasty spill and is currently at freighter hospital recovering from several broken broken bones Including part of a hip Scapula and ribs he is recovering very well and is in extremely good spirits And I am sure that had he have figured a way to sneak out of the hospital. He would have been up here right now Well, we hopefully he recovers is there anything else on one more question if you could explain to the council Captain Caswell's position Relationship of the department of the Navy there are some questions out there as far as shaboygan being able to obtain this ship Winds of being able to obtain this ship as opposed to our competition over and I spoke with the Navy this morning and The ship's donation office thinks very highly of captain Caswell He keeps them informed of every little move that we make and and they're very appreciative of that because they can see Progress or where we're having any stumbling blocks So but for those of you who may not know captain Caswell was a seabee in the Navy with with 27 years in the Navy Six of them being active in the rest of them on reserves So he definitely put his time in with the United States Navy So but is very highly thought of at the at the Navy department of the ship's donation office Thank You President Perg Yes, thank you. This gentleman obviously there's competition for this vessel and I guess if you could just Address the process where you would be out of the words are you are you playing a catch-up game with the competition and the impact of that? And to some degree the urgency you feel for this council to Adopted approve the lease agreement That was really the primary reason that I called the Navy department this morning And this is exactly what she told me that Saginaw right now is in no better shape than we are They are one half step ahead of us in as far as having the lease. That is it They do not have their money raised they do not have any other plans in place as far as their museum plan or their towing plan They have been spreading a lot of misinformation out there about as far as where they are in the project But this came directly from the ship's donation office in Washington with the United States Navy For those of you that don't aren't real familiar with the process A Application is due to the ship's donation office. This application is very extensive. I think Probably a bunch of papers that thick it has Towing plans museum plans A business plan it's very extensive once the Navy Assets an application and that doesn't mean have it in hand. That means goes over it and feels that it is a complete application a Six month period starts Anybody else who's interested in that ship has six months to get their application in At the end of that time the Navy will go through every application that they've received on the ship and Make a decision which one they recommend to keep the ship that recommendation goes to Congress where The final steps are taken to authorize the ship going to a specific location so We would like to be the first to have our application in Saginaw has had application in Previously and it has not been susceptible but We would rather have ours in first and have to have to try to play catch up in that six month period Part of this application is getting Money or pledges for money And that can take a little bit of time when you're talking about the dollars worth talking about Thank You all the men For thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wonder if you could tell me First of all generally what is what are the admission? Admission charges for the public for the ship in other markets what get a ballpark figure what it would be here And then number two after you've been up and running for let's say two years What type of gross revenues do you think you would enjoy and then also what do you think your net revenues would be just ballpark? Just to give you and then thirdly Your gross revenues does that go into a reserve fund in your organization? And does that reserve funds stay here in Sheboygan or that can that be used in other communities? If the first part as far as museum admissions it Largely depends on the size of the ship other destroyers are anywhere between eight and twelve dollars You can go to see some of the battleships like the battleship New Jersey which can be between sixteen and twenty dollars Our prices are going to be more in the eight ten dollar range depending on the type of tour You want if you want a self-tour or a guided tour Now as far as gross revenues We're working on a business plan. I don't have those figures We're working on a business plan and We do not have or I do not have our Projected figures in mind right now but we are very confident that at a Number of sixty thousand visitors that we will have enough money to pay for staff keep the ship maintained So I think and in probably less than that but as we fine-tune our business plan and the the company that we are having Do our fundraising will first be doing a feasibility study and This is a professional company that's been in business a long time and Once we get some figures from them. We'll have a better idea of these things One of the things I should mention is the tin can sailors association, which is a very large association of sailors who have been on destroyers Donates yearly with a twenty twenty thousand dollars To help pretty stroyer to help maintain these ships and they currently have some money set aside For this ship that they're holding an escrow As far as any income Leaving this community We don't intend that to happen This is a project for this ship for this city and It's just money's not to go anywhere else that that's it If we have enough funds, we'd mentioned the scholarship fund that we would like to have so that might be some money that goes out of state to a University, but it would be to a student and we have a knot defined exactly what that's going to be but it may be for city residents for county residents or for Tin can sailors kids Those details are going to be worked out Thank you all the men in Montemire Thank You Chairman Vander wheel Let me know if I have this correct the Navy will always own the ship correct Windsor will always be in charge of the maintenance and the safety and when so will also Either hire or actually themselves run the tourist ship absolutely Okay now so being a property of the Navy, it's nonprofit Of course, it's a ship also very close look are supported by the state These are usually the battleships that are named after the state the USS North Carolina gets quite a bit money Appropriated from the state to help with maintenance and also Capital upgrades to the vessel but our initial numbers and our initial budget show that we can be self-sufficient Or and also have the return funds set aside that money is just that's got to be there and not touched To return the ship to somewhere else if it doesn't work correct that okay And you've got some sort of an idea how much that might cost in Well, we in five years ten years between it's between it's the bond would be between one and a half and two million dollars Okay, we should take care of it now, but well, oh no that would you right? Yeah That would just sit in escrow so it would collect interest it. We can't touch it right all right, so it's kind of right now Minza versus Winsa Well, I see where you're going with that. Yeah, they're the I think their official name is the Saginaw Valley Historic naval ship. It's something not No, no, no, thank you Thank you Alderman Kittleson. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess Marilyn Alderman Montemire Answered or got some of those questions out that I wanted to ask also. It's a different group competing It's it is a completely separate organization correct so and then I'm going back to why us And then the comment I had was can you talk about the proposed naval heritage trail? Is that oh absolutely? Is that one of the reasons why you would like it here in she well The the naval heritage trail for those of you who aren't familiar with this is something that has been proposed And something that can really take off depending on how it it works Very similar to a lot of the lighthouse trails that go throughout, Wisconsin, Michigan And even Indiana and Ohio we can do the same thing with naval ships starting down Actually, you can even go to Michigan and Muskegon with the USS Silver Sides come down to Chicago for the U 505 at the Museum of Science and Industry the city of Waukegan, Illinois is attempting to get a destroyer of her own the USS Connolly, which is a much more modern ship than ours Then you have us with the USS Edson here in Sheboygan and ending at Manitowoc with the USS Cobia so it's something that that Very easily could be picked up as a tour group or that people take for a week-long tour and just tour these these ships Because they're very very popular I have talked to so many people that they don't understand the realm of the project and then they go to see a ship I'm a very avid bowler and last year our nationals were in Corpus Christi, Texas And that is the home port of the USS Lexington and a lot of my fellow bowlers went down there knew I was involved in this project came back and they said we were on the Lady Lex you got to get a ship here We understand the project completely now. So when you take a tour of one of these vessels you understand the history Everything that goes on with it. So all of a sudden to have a trail that can go between our state Illinois, Michigan all over the place really becomes a popular idea. So that's kind of the basis to the naval heritage trail Real quickly. Yeah, the Connelly the USS Connelly is a spruince class destroyer that was designed in 1970s She does have missile batteries So she has one on the four and I believe she has harpoons on the back That's not really important to them, but the USS Edson has no missiles. It is a look at older Navy technology She was the last all-gun destroyer class that was built So you're looking at something older and that is one reason she is on the National Historic Placelist because she has not been modified too much the USS Wisconsin has and so unfortunately She does not qualify for that status because of all of her renovations in the 1980s Thank you all the men cleverness Thank you. I number my questions were answered as well What happens to the Edson if nobody wants it? Eventually if nobody wants it after a period of a number of years it will get towed to a scrapper and scrapped That is the fate of the USS Des Moines, which we tried to get it was towed to Texas And it is currently being cut apart systematically a very saddened to a very proud naval ship So it will get scrapped if nobody else wants it Or possibly sunk in a naval exercise So the I guess the people who want this have a love of ships love of naval ships And they're looking for a parking place that you know, I mean it's Our shoreline is a place to park this Symbol of history and and okay, correct. Yeah, I yeah You know why a ship and that kind of thing. I guess I'm really basic questions on it. So thank you That's part of the reason a Big part of the reason is we want to enable Our youth to experience What our sailors went through The kind of life that they have what it was like aboard ship So it's not just that we're looking for a place to park the ship the reason I Got involved in this Is because I wanted Something that I could bring my grandkids to who live in this area That other people living in this area could visit a ship There's No ship like this anywhere near here The East Coast has dozens of museum ships up and down it as does the West Coast except for San Francisco but I think it is a unique opportunity to for our youth to see What our sailors have gone through what kind of living conditions that they had when we're in Milwaukee There was one woman that got up and said that she had a young son who was having trouble in school Getting into trouble In the community he was a hard kid to handle He went aboard the Colbia for one of the overnight stays there He came back and His whole attitude was changed His grades went up. He stopped getting into trouble. That is the kind of thing that can happen With with kids on these ships When we talk about these overnight stays, we're not just talking about having them come and sleep on the ship and leave the next day We'll have programs for them Teach them some nautical skills teach them history and We'll have a very extensive Education program for these kids not just the weekend ones. We hope to have seminars or little talks during some of the some of the evenings for for adults bring some his military historians in and That type of thing so education is a strong part of this and What they get from being aboard a ship and getting this education is Very much different than getting it in the classroom Thank you. Thank you all of them and Ryan Thank you, Mr. Chairman You kind of touched on this with the youth groups, you know that I that's one thing I see is a is a big advantage to this community with this ship. It's not only bringing tourist dollars in But it's you know locally for for you know the local for the for the schools for the youth groups You know you mentioned the overnight campouts You know having overnight outings on the ship Can you even I know that there's been some conversation? Between the Rockets for schools group on this on this ship. Can you touch on that a little bit and the possibilities there? Well, I know that we talked and there's a couple representatives from the organization here So hopefully later if they have any input they can give it as well But we definitely want to work with them. We think that there's a very distinct Amount of things that we can do together as far as having the ship be used during their launches Having the kids be able to stay on board the ship on Friday night before they go into their launches There's a lot of ideas that we can that we can partner together And we've been working on a memorandum of understanding and I just got the first draft from them back from our draft So definitely is an organization that has been very open to us and very supportive as far as you know We sat down identified their needs and figured out where we can help them out and they can help us out So I'm very very glad to work with them Basically what you're looking here from this council is the Blessing of the city to say yes go ahead and let's let's explore this project if you can make this project happen With your business plan your feasibility study everything has to fall into place But in order to do that you need the approval of this council to get the ball rolling correct correct What we're looking for is that the conditional lease from the city what this is going to allow us to do is to begin our studies and These are your feasibility studies environmental studies Parking studies any sort of contingency that the city has set up or the Navy sets up now at any time if one of those contingencies if one of those studies comes back Negatively then we either have to sit down with the city and ourselves figure out how to solve it Or there's where the city has an out that they can terminate the process if they want So this is something that this lease that is before you right now is not the final lease This just allows us to be able to start our work because that like just for example the environmental studies is $98,000 our organization really does not feel like paying for that to come back to the council for them to say Thank you, but we're not interested now because then that is just a waste of time and money for our organization and for your city So that is kind of what we're looking for with this lease is to allow us to start our fundraising process to allow us to start our studies It's a chicken and egg thing somebody's got to get it started Thank you all the recce. Thank you. Mr. Chairman. I'm taking a look here at some of the museum ships around the country. We have the Cod which is in Cleveland, Ohio. That seems to be a submarine We have silver sides in Muskegon, Michigan another submarine. We've got the Colby and Madelof which is another submarine How many of these types of vessels destroyer such as this are docked in the Great Lakes and have to put up with the weather conditions especially in the winter months of the icing that The submarines are basically did not have the superstructure both the water such as this type of a vessel How is this going to weather out? I mean how many other communities in this far north have this type of vessel sitting in their community in fresh water like we are Buffalo has the USS Little Rock, which is a guided missile cruiser and Albany, New York has the USS Slater Which is a destroyer escort both of those operations are Very very well received especially in Buffalo when the Little Rock was decommissioned Buffalo jumped at the opportunity to be able to save that ship At the USS Slater was one of the first destroyer escorts to open in the United States and they were very Warmly received there as well as far as the maintenance and upkeep as far as I've been in contact with their executive directors They have had no other Significant problems and some of the other ones in more of a tempera climate such as the Gulf Coast because they have to Deal with the humidity all the time that we don't In talking with the USS North Carolina their executive director was a former commanding officer of this vessel the USS Edson and We went over plans with how to properly weather and condition the deck in the superstructure to be able to last More than three four or five years before it has to be repainted. So it's something that Obviously these vessels served all over the world. It's not like they just served where it was warm They served in the North Atlantic They served off the coast of Korea in the winter and they didn't have any sort of maintenance or general upkeep problems then But when you're moving the vessel, it's a whole different story than letting a vessel sit there to take on these types of conditions where they can be rocked in that birth and And take on the the seas that they take the other side is I mean you're talking about youths and everything else You're talking about the history of the Navy. I haven't heard one word about the history of Sheboygan's Naval Force I haven't heard anything about the Great Lakes themselves. I have not heard anything about what you're going to do to show Sheboygan's ship history There's a lot of Rex laying out here that myself and a lot of other people are interested in reading about as a matter of fact There's so many wrecks. It's hard to even keep track of them trying to read them What are you going to do to to bring that into the pictures? Well, I mean you're bringing United States Navy ship And here's what you want to do you want to immortalize the United States Navy in the city that really would never see destroyer otherwise So what are you going to do to help us? You know show the history of the naval or I should say the shipbuilding history way back into the 1800s the shipwrecks in Lake Michigan That's of greater importance to me than seeing in the United States Navy destroyer here in our harbor And that is exactly what we want to showcase. You're absolutely right. Sheboygan is a very proud naval heritage From the USS Eli, which was the last ship back through the lap wing. There were a lot of Corn Belt fleet ships That's served right here. There was a USS Sheboygan a patrol frigate That's served or that didn't serve here, but it served at the end of World War two There's a ton of shipwrecks. You're absolutely right from the Carl Bradley in Lake Michigan to the Christmas tree ship There there's so many opportunities We have to educate the youth to educate the adults to educate everybody as far as Oliver hazard Perry the naval hero of the Great Lakes in the war of 1812 Perfect example of how to let people know about all of that all of the naval battles of the war of 1812 fought on the Great Lakes These are the type of things we definitely want to explore we definitely want to get that out there You have the history of the United States Marine Corps The history of the Navy the history like you said Anything Great Lakes that we can definitely do this is part of the thing. We're Captain Bible said we can bring in guest speakers We can have rotating displays. I've already been working with one of a graduate student at UWM Who's a historical preservation major and she has began drawing up preliminary forms for how that we can rotate with other ships How we can develop our own programs for this area and for this region? So there's definitely a lot of history that we want to convey with this ship It's just it's a convenient way for us to do it on board a United States Naval ship And I have a question for you what is wrong with showcasing a ship that helped protect our Navy during the Cold War Nothing at all. It's just that there's what significance does it have to this city itself if you're just going to showcase a Navy ship here? I mean there's got to be some significance to this city There's nothing I mean other than the fact it's a it's a it's a United States Navy vessel that has gone around the world It didn't serve in the Great Lakes It served off the coast of Vietnam or Korea or the North Atlantic or whatever you said What are you going to do a project such as this there should be some type of Italian to our local ship building history The local shipwrecks of this area the local battles that may have been fought out there Maybe even some of the canoe battles between the white man the Indian when the city first came into being and also that this area Was used as an anti-aircraft training range in World War two One of the misconceptions is that these naval ships have to have historical relevance to the city that they're being Proposed in if you go to the USS kids website one of the frequently asked questions is what is the tie with Baton Rouge, Louisiana? And the USS kid the first sentence says absolutely nothing so there I mean I Love your ideas. I think they are outstanding and definitely something that we want to do and that we had planned to do Thank you all in much more Thank you chairman very Vander wheel the chicken or the egg right With this contingency lease agreement and they're doing the part if you're new and you would do the parking study the feasibility and so forth and so On then who decides the viability of all those the Navy that owns the ship Winston is going to run it or Sheboygan who Place it will be birthed. Yes all three okay pretty much Yeah, we all have to sit down and look at and agree probably not the Navy as much as the city and Maybe and probably definitely state agencies when you get to DNR and national agencies with EPA as far as environmental After going through all of it. We as a city could still say okay. No, thank you and that is does that least tie us to If you can say that with justification and good reason Well, I would just like to make sure we get that answer this lease At any time can we back out which as long as there's some justification or we like tied to it Is what she was asking I would guess I would like a more clear answer. Well, I You'd probably have to talk to the lawyers about that, but it's my understanding that This contingent lease will stay in effect Until There it would come across Some aspect of it that We cannot meet so, you know if you say I don't say there's a parking problem We'd have to investigate What can be done to resolve the parking problem and if there's absolutely nothing that could be done to resolve it In that case actually that the Navy's got first cut on this because in our application of them We have to answer a lot of these things and before they'll approve it. So I guess what I'm saying is if The city can't just say now we change our mind and back out it has to be with justification And you know in good cause All right. Thank you, and I'm sure before we have one on that part. We'll be talking to our city attorney, right? And and he Was instrumental in drafting this agreement All right. Thank you Oliver Meyer Thank You mr. Chairman. I just have a couple questions There's another city that wants this ship correct. What happens if after going through all of this you get the Lease contingency and you spend all the money on the studies and what happens if Michigan gets this ship and The other question is what is the liability to the city for having this ship in our harbor? The city has no liability What happens if Not only That city, but three other cities could put in applications also Like I said the Navy will study all successful applications that are in Six months after the initial application is improved and they will decide which one they want the ship to go to If it goes to a city other than Sheboygan We shut down or we look for another ship Thank you Thank you Alderman reckey Thank You mr. Chairman Read some of your information here as collected throughout the time you'd have some political endorsements one from the governor one from representative mark green of Congress another one from Congressman Paul Ryan, but I don't see anything from our local representatives. Why? Actually, I think Bob all of them and Ryan's in a better position to answer this than I can right now All right, that's one of the questions. Thank you, mr. Chairman I do have a verbal endorsement of this project a verbal approval from senator Joe libel At this point captain Caswell was in contact with senator libelman Unfortunately, they were supposed to meet the next day and he decided to fly off the roof So that we do have a verbal Approval from our verbal endorsement from senator libelman this project also as long as we're speaking of endorsements The Highlander 2 which they're spending several million dollars to build a new restaurant on the by the a street bridge they have also Given us a verbal endorsement and captain Caswell was also getting up with them He has been in contact with Representative van Akron from what I understand also, so there will be a local political endorsements of this Thank You mr. Chairman Other question is you said no cost of the city whatsoever No cost of the taxpayers No, we are not asking for any direct money from the city now Indirect money that depends upon what you're talking about you talking as far as the parking We're gonna pay a parking assessment to cover parking We're gonna pay our water bills We're gonna pay our own insurance Did you have anything specific in mind? Well, how much how much of this is gonna be funded by say the state or the federal government? We do not know now We will be approaching The state and the federal government for some funds we have talked to the State Department of Tourism and They will be very happy to give us some support after the ship is here For advertising the they gave us some leads to some other state agencies That may give us some help, but again we have not submitted any grant proposals or anything like that because It's premature to do that without a place to put the ship. We do intend asking the federal government for some help through some grants Whether we get those or not. I don't know we're gonna have to Look at all of our possible funding funding sources and go after money We do not intend to ask the city of Sheboygan for any money And like we said before if the project fails We will have had money set aside to get the ship out of here my next question is then How many years is it generally between dry docks on a vessel like this? In fresh water about 50 years 50 years, okay, so What happens if you have to pull the sea out early and you run into Situations like they run into New York City with the intrepid with the currents the way they run along that seawall down there at the South pier chances are you're gonna have that thing filling it with sand now It's gonna be much more expensive here to pull something like that out because we don't have direct access To tugboats just that quickly to pull something like that out I mean we're in a situation here. We're probably the closest types of Chicago or Milwaukee to even take a look at something like that We're possibly Sturgeon Bay What type of money would you have set aside to cover such an expense? To get the boat out of there and bring it back and that we would not lose it And you know because this could possibly break you mean right now the United States Navy Last I saw was about three million dollars. They kicked in in New York City. Now the taxpayers are kicking in for this thing again We're not saying that we won't take any tax dollars. We're saying we will not take any tax dollars from the city of Sheboygan And My problem with the movie ship out of here There's no reason to move it out in any kind of emergency. There's there's time to get tugs here and With this configuration If the ship needs to go into dry dock, there's a possibility of Instead of towing the ship out building a case on along that open end of the pier and Doing any maintenance right on site. It's a possibility So we've got we've been working with a Consultant a naval consultant who has been responsible for placing an excess of I think it's 18 Historic ships around the country and He sees no problems in putting that ship here He's very experienced in this the Navy Department Has a lot of trust in this guy. He's never let them down. He is Extremely conservative and his Projections and and his recommendations You know, I'm not the technical guy But he sees no problem in in doing this with a bigger ship. We would maybe have to tow it To the East Coast but this ship can easily be handled in our Great Lakes Facilities and just to touch on an earlier point about the weather being an issue One of the plans the mooring plan has to be designed to withstand a hundred-year storm And that is what the Navy deems as the worst possible storm that can happen. I'm not talking about getting this thing out an emergency I'm talking about with the sediment and everything else filling in as the rivers filled in over the years In the event that you're trying to get this thing out of here No, you're responsible for paying for this to get it out for drydock or whatever maintenance or repairs it may need You're saying 50 years, but that's not the guarantee that 20 years from now I mean not me to me need to go to Sturgeon Bay for repairs or something or some type Now we have a problem with the sediment and everything coming into the into the Into the river and you can't get this thing out. It's gonna break you I mean what guarantees do we have that you're gonna have enough money to pull this thing out and put it back in if the Same situation occurs here that has occurred in New York City because as time goes on We know it's gonna fill in with sand and sediment and mud. It's just get stuck in there Why does it have to get pulled out? What I'm saying is if you have to pull this out for drydock like they're doing right now What type of guarantee are we gonna have that you're gonna have the funds to do this without breaking your whole project just to give You an example the USS Alabama currently had to have her whole work done. She is more than mud They did not pull her off of there They built a drydock around her and just let the water out and worked on the ship right there So there's probably there might not be any need to pull the ship out if there needs to be any whole work done on it I should also say that These funds that we have set aside to take the or give the ship back to the Navy the exact mount of those will be determined by the Navy in conjunction with our Consult so that is something that they would have to take into account when they decided what the size of these funds were Or it can be something that as any of you have probably seen from for local schools colleges any time They want to do a major upgrade. They have a capital campaign So we just have a campaign that starts once again not centered in Sheboygan, but all over the nation So it's something that you see on a constant basis that if something that big needs to be done We'll just set up a capital campaign to raise money for it my concern is if something happens that you need to pull it up for For drydock of some type that the costs like I see they're incurring in New York City That could break your project and that's my concern here because if the project is broke Then we've got ourselves a big hold on the harbor we'd have to fill in and and you're and you're absolutely right That's a legitimate concern. However, I would remind everybody on the council here that the USS intrepid is almost a thousand foot long ship That is an aircraft carrier that has a lot more of a draft than the USS Edson does So you have to scale everything back that it's not going to be a 50 million dollar capital campaign like the intrepid is running right now That is why she's going to be shut down for a number of years is to be able to make those renovations with a smaller ship That's in better shape the intrepid also was a World War two veteran So she has seen probably 15 to 20 more years than the Edson has So there's a number of factors. I mean, you know, the what if I understand that and you're absolutely right But then you know, there's a lot of factors that go into where the Edson isn't going to be as costly or time-consuming as that venture will be one of the problems with the intrepid is it was the propellers on the ship that were Causing the biggest problem being buried deepest in the sand On the ship. We're going to be bringing in we're going to have the propellers taken off as well as the sonar dome to reduce the draft of it No, I don't think they're going to touch the rudders, but if they had to they could All right moving on all of them on tomorrow, thank you chairman Verhastel their promise system the last question When you talk about 2008 that best time 2008 was that the length of the contingency lease or was well was that the time when you thought it might happen, you know In 2008 if that's when we thought the contingency lease would be passed. No, I was gonna say I hope not Viable until the 2008 or was 2008 the date you would with the earliest date that it would be available for tourists Yes, yes, okay, but the contingency lease would be From now until then do we have an end date for that? I think the lease if you look at the lease it's written for 25 25 years 25 years correct So that part of the peer would be kind of Spoken for for the next 25 right correct. Thank you very much And there are procedures for ending that lease early if both sides concur Thank you all the Ryan. Thank you again, mr. Chairman You know, it's obvious that you gentlemen have done a lot of homework even without cat and casual here today No, I think you know this is a council here We can look either be the devil's advocate in which we you know, we are to make sure that everything is in line You know, I think we're to the point that you know We should not be grasping for straws to try to find you know perceived problems that You know may appearing if the Martians come out of space or something of a sort and attack our ship You know this ship is not the USS and that's intrepid, you know, this is a you know, it's third It has a 13 foot draft on it You know to compare it to trying to drag a a ship with a 30 to 40 foot draft out of the mud Is is is not fair to say the least You know this this is this is it, you know It's a great plan for our city that you guys are putting together. It really is I mean, I think it's it's something that I Think we as a as a city we need to do our homework. We need to give this our due diligence But I think we should feel we should feel honored that this could become a part of a part of our display Thank you. Thank you very much Thank you. I'm Ryan. I have a few questions Would you be open to I'm going back to the water taxi idea. Would you be open to? having that the only access to the battleship that that the water that there wouldn't be you'd have a Parking off-site and then the water taxes would take you to the battleship I think the one of the major problems with that would be that the water taxi charges and we don't want to Charge people to get to the ship to charge them to get on the ship Does that make sense because I think he charges what $4? Is it possible to do it on different way like maybe have your own? Bolts taking them to it not have a water taxi as much as a shuttle that you would provide Yeah, I think there's other reasons that would be impractical One of them being fog bed weather in the harbor as It stands now we intend to run the ship year-round that may change we may in the Winter months we may be open only on weekends or we may find we have to close on weekends, but that's that's Up in the air, but there are certainly going to be times when It would be impractical To have the water taxi be the only access to the ship There are a lot of times when parking isn't a problem down here we When we were figuring on our 80,000 Customers We figured we'd probably need a maximum of about 50 Spaces on a summer weekend People aren't going to park and be there all day long. We figured probably Maximum stay aboard the ship would be about a two-hour stay. So there's going to be turnover We figured Some people will be coming by bus The school kids that may come to visit would be coming on a bus They're figured in our 80,000 people Some of the tour groups groups will be coming by bus we figured average of about three passengers per car and so, you know 50 spaces When you look at the length of that drive and if we provide If we provide a shuttle service, you know, that's Not a lot of spaces So but like I say the parking study will will address that and we'll Work out what has to be worked out for parking And for the because we're on TV and people are watching at home could you explain a little bit more about the museum where it's going to be and So that everybody's on the same page with that certainly the museum will be self-contained on the vessel There will be no building on land So what I will do is show you a slide here This gives you an idea of all of the compartments in this vessel each of these compartments can be a different museum space So you can see there's quite a few of them Now obviously there's a few that we can't the uptake space by the smokestacks We can't use that as a as a museum space But all of these spaces you'll see on here It's kind of probably too small for you to really see but there's crew living spaces Those are already done as museum spaces the the chief petty officer's mess is already done as a as a museum space The barbershop is done. So each of these compartments is going to be a different piece of the museum So that's why and this is very similar to the USS North Carolina She is a battleship in Wilmington, North Carolina does not have a building associated with the ship the museum is The ship just the same type of program we want to do right here Thank you, and and I would like to thank you for coming tonight The let the citizens see your presentation and and get the information out there. It was a great presentation Thank you very much. It was very nice being here and thank you for all your questions. They were very good We enjoy getting Peppered with questions like that. So but thank you very much Is there any other discussion from Alderman? so I'd like to thank you also and If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to contact one of us and we'll try to if we don't have the answer Right off hand. We'll get an answer for you All right. Thank you There will be some public forum and some communications. We're going through so stick around Moving on in the agenda We have our own number 37406 was seven by city clerk to me in communication from John Mosul World War two Navy veterans saying that the common council should do the right thing and bring the USS and to Shabu again Is there a motion on that? There's been a motion to accept them file Is mr. Mosul here tonight? He is not so Is there any discussion on the motion? All in favor signify by saying aye Triple it's I motion passes Next on the agenda is communication number 706 07 submitting a communication from Robert Darling and Stating his concerns with bringing the USS as in to Shabu again Motion a second to accept in file under the Scott discussion is a mr. Darling here tonight Would you like to speak on your communication to the Alderman tonight? If you could come up to the podium, please Can we turn the lights on please? Thank you Go ahead. Thank you. I had communicated with sir if you could maybe adjust a little bit so you got the mic You can you can move the podium if you'd like Thank you I had heard Alderman Vanderbilt on WHBL several weeks ago. I'm sorry. I had heard Alderman Vanderbilt several weeks ago on WHBL and Communicated him some of my concerns regarding that. I realized that this is an emotional issue a lot of people have Put a tremendous amount of work into considering this I'm not unsympathetic to that my father served as an officer on the USS Cole a hand for the three years of the Korean conflict He's also contributed to a book on Fletcher class destroyers He and I've had a number of discussions, you know regarding bringing the Edson to Shabu again Although It may be a proud source of Naval history the forced Sherman class and the converted for a Sherman class of vessels which the USS Edson is one of them Only three have been reserved as museum pieces Five were sold for scrap and nine were sunk for target practice So the they may not have as high regard within the Navy as they do and some Causes to bring it as a museum. I Did not believe While some speak of a proud naval history of Shabu again Ours is at best tangential Cities like Portsmouth, New Hampshire, Philadelphia You know, San Diego Hampton Roads, you know, they have a naval history We had a small vessel here shortly after World War two Certainly citizens of Shabuigan have served, you know in the armed forces, you know in the Navy But they have in every other city in the nation. I Guess my principal concern is as a taxpayer The phrase at little or no cost to the city makes me very nervous My great concern is that there's a tremendous amount of money involved in bringing this vessel to Shabuigan money that has to be raised and If we commit to a lease or say that we're involved at what point Does it happen that well, we've spent this much money and we're almost there and can you help us out and That is is my great concern because There are very few things that are free when they talk about well, there's going to be no cost Well, dredging the Shabuigan River is going to cost somebody something, you know Whether it's the Army Corps of Engineers all of us pay taxes and that money goes towards You know paying for that project although Alderman Ryan had talked about the draft of the Being 13 feet the website says the draft of the ship is 22 feet When I kayak on the river on a regular basis, I can stick my paddle and touch the bottom of the harbor You know on the south pier. So, you know 22 feet is a lot to be removed and it's going to cost a lot in order to be able to do that With the federal government, you know trying to close all of the Spending you know items that need to be done, you know the Shabuigan may not be on their high list of priorities I'm concerned that verbal endorsements don't pay the bill You know, it's very good of Governor Doyle to say he thinks it's a good idea or Mark Green You know or or the Pope or anyone else, but you know, unless a lot of money comes with that You know, it's just not going to happen So thank you for your time. Thank you We have a motion and a second. Is there any other discussion? All in favor of the motion signify by saying aye Trevor sigh any opposed motion passes Next on the agenda is our own number 304 or 607 Summoning communication from Tina Weiss Gerber general manager owner of the seabird restaurant at the Blue Harbor resort stating her concerns with Bring in the USS as in to Shabuigan Could I have a motion on that? Motion is second to accept them files or any discussion Hearing none all in favor signify by saying aye Trevor sigh any opposed motion passes Next on the agenda is our role by Shabuigan transit Summoning communication from the same communication we just filed is there any discussion Could we have a motion? Motion a second to accept in file all in favor signify by saying aye Trevor sigh any opposed motion passes next we have Communication from Richard Caswell of the Wisconsin Naval Ship Association Addressing the concerns of Tina Weiss Gerber owner of the seabird restaurant regarding the birthing of the USS Edgerton Could we have a motion on that Motion in a second to accept in file is there any discussion Hearing none all in favor signify by saying aye Trevor sigh any opposed motion passes next we have RC number 250 306 or 7 from The director of planning and development Sumerian agreement between the city of Shabuigan and Wisconsin Naval Ship Association For birthing on the USS Edson in the Shabuigan Harbor recommends that the report of officer referred to the community of the hole Motion is in a second to accept in file on any discussion All in favor signify by saying aye Chair votes aye any opposed Motion passes Next is our own number two eight nine or six was seven Summary an agreement between the city of Shabuigan and Wisconsin Naval Ship Association for birthing of the USS Edson in the Shabuigan Harbor This would be the actual agreement we're voting on I believe Unless I'm wrong That was a previous one I'll remember Thank You mr. Chairman. Are we on 1363 now? When I am number 11, which would be 1363 I'm sorry run number 10 which is 1363 Okay, I would like to make a motion to make an amendment on the document on page three of the agreement Under number two after the first paragraph I'd like to make the following amendment Winsa agrees to make voluntary payments to the city annually after the second full year of their operation Honor before May 1st fees for police and fire protection for the Edson and the Edson project area The amount of the fees to be determined by the mayor director of public works and the city attorney The amount of the fees will be reviewed annually and adjusted on an annual basis by the mayor Director of Public Works and the city attorney If I could I go on to explain the reason for the There's been some there's been some concern about whether truly that there are going to be no cost to the city well there are going to be cost to the city because The city is going to have to provide police protection and fire protection down in that down in that site forever and so I would like to see with this with this Amendment to the agreement that a plan be put in place before the final agreement that the Windsor people agree to pay this Voluntary fee for fire and police protection. I've talked to the city attorney this morning about this and Perhaps if the council would want more information before they would vote on this amendment Or I would get a second on the amendment that maybe the or after I get the second in discussion Maybe the city attorney could go into the mechanics of this a little bit further But this is a way to recover the cost that we will be that we will be absorbing for police Protection and fire protection on that site and I think it's only fair that they make a contribution towards those costs So that there truly is no cost to the city. Thank you Thank you. Is there a second on that amendment? I'll ask all the men born after the meeting if you could give us that amendment to ensure to the minutes. Thank you All the men right Thank you. Mr. Chairman. I don't Personally have a problem with with that amendment I One thing I see in it is that you know the fees to be determined by the mayor the director of city development And the city attorney I think you know, I don't know if the winds of people would have a problem with this amendment But I think it does we need some clarification as far as Probably some type of a formula in there as far as what those voluntary fees can be, you know if you know If we if we have a Trio of a mayor city to you know city development person You know five years down the road that decides the city could use an extra couple million dollars I would hate to see you know the the ship gets left with that if that's the way it reads So I think that they're you know, this should be a voluntary Fee for fire and police services and I I personally do not have a problem with that provided that this fee is not excessive and will not inhibit the the success of this project Thank you all men Ryan all around tomorrow Thank You chairman van der wheel Asking nonprofits to do this is pretty much standard in the latest developments that have been going on throughout the city I think the Planning director always tries to do this with all nonprofits. This isn't anything new or special for them And I don't I think it's kind of inappropriate to assume that down the line There'd be three people that are going to be mean to the name Thank you President Burke. Yes. Thank you. I think this is consistent with the overtures made by the spaceport of Oregon folks when they came and presented to us they had talked about Wanting to get some experience in terms of their operational costs, but I believe that they were supportive of Considering a payment in lieu of taxes for these fees of this this tends to be I think a certainly a current fee generation topic for many nonprofits that operate in municipalities Thank you Is there any other discussion on the amendment? All in a minute. Thank you. I believe it's a good idea I don't believe we need to pass this tonight as an amendment to the motion that's to us It might be appropriate to do more research and come to council with an appropriate amendment That's further thought through and articulated with input from Steve McLean, etc So it's not overwhelmingly germane to the vote that we take I'd rather have that well thought out in detailed As opposed to pass it now as a part of the amend part of the resolution Knowing we're gonna have to change it next time we meet anyway Thank You city attorney McLean Could you step up and give your opinion on that please? Thank you, mr. Chairman I also think you know the proposal makes some sense the devils in the details And I guess what I would like to see and I don't know You know who comes up with the magic number, but I think there should be either a number to begin with or a Clearly delineated formula so that everybody knows what we're talking about and it's within the realm of duability for the wince group You know the likelihood of coming up with you know a million dollars ten years down the road It's probably a bit of a stretch, but I do think I guess Administratively it'd be a lot easier to Come up with a number to begin with and then have that adjusted on an annual basis At a rate say that's comparable to Our annual budget increase or something like that so that there is a you're starting out with a base That's clear, and you've got a formula to modify it instead of coming up with some sort of arbitrary number each year The trick is to come up with the original number and how you're going to calculate that I gave this some thought Today it's after Alderman Bourne gave me a call We we have talked about this with pilot agreements we we originally were going to do something similar with the landmark project before they realized that they needed some Some major assistance from the city through Tiff But there and I think the way most pilots work It's tied into a payment in lieu of taxes where you you make an equivalency valuation on the facility and it's Typically it's a building on land And you've got an assessor with some experiences to what land values are and what building values are and then you make You know sort of a comparable analysis with With a ship in the harbor You know you kind of grasping at straws one one thing I thought of just out of the chute and You know what relevance it has anything. I don't know but I took the length of the vessel times the width multiplied it gives 18,000 some odd square feet if you what we do with the South Pier land on the river that we're leasing to developers The assessor came up with at the beginning of the project an estimate of ten dollars a square foot as the estimated value of the land so if you do that with this 18,000 square foot came up to $188,000 value on this piece of piece of water. I guess is what you've got attached to the The pier if you take that hundred eighty eight thousand dollar value and then tie the city's tax rate into that at $8 and ten cents. I think rich told me it was for next year You got a figure a little shy of two thousand dollars a year And and I don't know if that's You know if that's what you're looking at or if you're looking at significantly more than that significantly less, but that that's one Possible scenario to come up with a ballpark figure out of the year But I do think the concepts a good one There will be need for You know, hopefully not on a regular basis, but the Police protection down there fire protection And I think that the city does incur a cost in providing that service Thank you Alderman Ryan. Thank You mr. Chairman Yeah, I think that's a good point there turning the clean. Thank you one thing, you know, we you know We would like this process to move along that These gentlemen can start, you know provided this passes counsel You know get the green light to start their project and try to make it succeed So if we can you know do this expeditiously that it doesn't hold up for a month or two the You know the the the nod to give these gentlemen the contingent lease I think the what attorney McLean threw out here right now is this Would probably be agreed agreeable to these gentlemen. It sounds fair to me. Thank you Thank you. I'm Ryan omen recce. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I would be in favor of saying this to the finance committee Let them try and figure this thing out As far as all of it born's Amendment they can come up with some numbers there possibly and workers from that end Well before we deal with any referral we need to vote on the amendment On the amendment owner Woman or vice-president Serta. Thank you, mr. Chairman given the suggestions made by the attorney Steve McLean and older person Manny Would older person born be interested in retracting his motion? Therefore we can get it to the council present that new information at that time and then possibly make a motion to refer I guess I guess I don't have a problem as long as eventually eventually this gets into the into the agreement and And and it's agreeable to win say it's a win-win for them and for the city But I do want to see them pay the you know the fees for police and fire protection if we do the research First and then come back When the final agreement is approved. I guess that's fine with me Do withdraw your I'll withdraw it All right, everybody agrees to withdraw Before we vote I just want to say that I think a lot of good things came out tonight and a lot of new information That I felt about the parking came out tonight and I just I like there were problem-solving and we're We're looking at give given it a chance at least I'll remember Thank You mr. Chairman. I have one more question for the city attorney if I may All right, it's not a different matter than we were talking about the attorney McLean I've read the complete agreement and I wanted to and I wanted to know if you feel comfortable That if the project would fail after ten years that the city is going to be held harmless for any cost if the ship leaves Thanks, hallmark born. I believe it would be one thing I did Note that I think could be strengthened in the agreement to To address that concern it's Where I feel it's somewhat in here in that one of the contingencies is that Once to get approval by the Navy Department of Ship donations for For of their application, which is going to require some escrowed money or a bond or something like that I think it would be beneficial to add a provision Something to the effect that that when so would provide evidence sufficient to the city That those funds are indeed Sufficient funds are escrowed to cover the cost of removing the Edson from the Shboygan Harbor At no cost to the city county state or federal government right now it's kind of it's not specifically in there and I think I Did look at some of the Winza literature I don't think that they've they would have a problem with that. They've got to Do that with the feds this would assure us that indeed that money is in place and right now We don't really have that specific assurance Other than that I You know as you know as well as can be Protected I think the city would be assured that there would be monies Set aside then in the event that for whatever reason The lease was terminated or the project didn't work out Navy wanted the vessel back that We would be held harmless as far as the cost of removing it Well, I was just going to follow up that As long as as long as we're going to be working on this thing that we talked about before that I brought up if attorney McLean would want to clean up that language that he's talking about and perhaps bring that back in the And final agreement it probably would be a good idea to as long as we're working on one thing We might as well tie up all the loose ends if there are any Thank you Go ahead just one comment there was reference to the duration of the lease as 25 years and that is correct The tie in there is that this is really the bulk of this lease is a sub lease From us to winca of the lease that we entered into with the Corps of Engineers and that's a 25-year lease So we can't we can't give a 50-year lease when all we've got is 25 so Other than the section dealing with the contingencies All of the if you will boilerplate provisions in this agreement Mirror the provisions that are in the lease Between the city and the Corps of Engineers for use of the South Pier right now And a lot of the provisions are such that we have to agree and also the The district engineer for the Corps of Engineers has to agree to various things and has to be satisfied so That's the reason for the 25 years and That's really the the essence of the bulk of the terms in the lease Thank you President Burke. Oh, yes with that in mind I would move to accept the adopt the report of officer Have a motion a second Is there any discussion and that motion I'm gonna want to murder Okay, we're going to repeat we're going to approve or disapprove the report of officer, which is just a report. Thank you All right, so the motion was to accept in doubt and adopt the report of officer Any other discussion Thank you, Mr. Chairman Vanderwill. We're simply Adopting or accepting accepting the report of officer. That's it This is not yay or nay to the agreement or is it? The the report of officers submitting an agreement between the city of Sheboygan and Wisconsin Naval Ship Association City Attorney McLean, do you have anything any comments on that? So what we'll be doing is giving the council our recommendation of yes, we want to do it or no Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you All in favor of the motion signify by saying aye. Aye Chair votes aye any opposed? No Do we need a roll call? All right, we got it Moving down to item I'll remember I would thank you. Mr. Chairman. I would like I would like a roll call vote, please. All right. Thank you Okay, those in favor of Accepting the report of officer born Berg sir, aye Davis grof Hanna Kittlesen Clayunas Manny Meyer No Montemay or no Radke Ryan Sushia Vanderwheel for hassle Excuse Motion passes Next thing Jenna's I am number 11 Resolution number one seven nine oh six seven by all the person Racky and Vanderwheel is a resolution terminating the city's Consideration of the proposal to locate the USS Edson in the Sheboygan Harbor Do I have a motion? Root file More motion a second to file under discussion My name is on this resolution, but because of the discussion tonight and the Discussion on the amendments that is why I have changed my mind on that I'm favor to accept and file The resolution certified by saying aye Traverse I any opposed hi We'll do a roll call Sir to I Davis Hannah Kittlesen Clayunas Manny Meyer Montemay or no Radke Ryan Vanderwheel hi Thank you vice-president sir, uh Next we have public forum regarding the USS Edson from all taxpayers residents of the governmental unit We're gonna limit a three minutes per person and if you'd like to speak would ask that you give your name city and address If you could come to the mic for the people at home In the Navy won in the army My son is stationed aboard the USS Louisiana nuclear powered submarine He is mm1 and a lead petty officer on that submarine Down he is stationed in Birmingham, Washington, and at the time we went down there last year We got to tour the sister ship of the USS Edson, and that's the USS Turner Joy and They had a little museum in there and they also had a little gift shop and that was the most beautiful ship I ever saw When you walk down there by the riverfront it was down there by the riverfront by the port whatever And then the parking was way up above So it was someplace we probably had a walk maybe a half a mile to get to the ship But then you walked around the river edge, etc And when you came into that area and you saw this ship It was just like that me the tears were brought to my eyes. It was just the true True meaning of being patriotic and what the Navy stood for and I above all especially and with my husband Would truly love to see the USS Edson birthed in the Sheboygan Harbor, and I hope all of you Look at that with a sincere thoughts and how should be honored with this and I thank you for that Thank you Go ahead Hello, my name is Jeff Schucho, and I reside at 2303 South 17th Street First of all, I'd like to say if any fees are assessed to this project I would like to counsel to get taken to consideration that this is a tour tourism project was has which has potential to bring Significant amount of money into our economy here What I came to talk discussed today is about a little research that I've done myself on a US Army Corps of Engineers website when I learned of Our our peer repair being set back I looked on their site and found that an article here Baghdad counts on local improvements I and I've heard just about every excuse in under the Sun not to bring this project here by the way But in looking into this I Found that their priorities clearly do not reflect their own goals and public service commitment on their website Example goals to provide strong protection of the nation's aquatic environment including wetlands I assume they're referring to our goal our nation Public service commitment listed there accounts list the number of things Including timeliness and accountability which I have a question regarding when what's that issue is? $500 million expenditures on 150 projects not to build but to upgrade essential services in Baghdad To me this is clearly Not addressing or Proper use of their priorities and their own goals I feel this response is unacceptable being pushed back like this And I would expect every council member to contact our federal representatives to request that the corpse provides Their priorities be adjusted to provide immediate action here Because of the time-sensitive nature of the Edson project and huge public and private investments in our lakefront We have The tax-paying citizens expect to be put on the top of the army corpse of engineering's priorities list Only action of this nature will maintain the public's trust not only with the US Corps of Engineers But also our local representatives here. Thank you Thank you Is there anybody else? Go ahead sir. Good evening. My name is Randy Lutz address 915 Wilson Avenue, Sheboygan We were in contact With Windsor they contacted us a number of months ago at the start of this project About our co-use of the South Harbor Forgot to mention. I'm co-director along with my wife Carol of Rockets for Schools they contacted us we've had a number of meetings and Throughout this process. They've been really Concerned and interested in learning about a program see how they can work with us develop some synergy between our two programs Like they mentioned we are working on a memorandum of understanding and in that memorandum a Couple of things were brought forward as proposals that may help our Rockets for Schools program Obviously the modernization of the South Pier is going to be a great help for us It is a little bit of a concern taking all the kids out in the South Pier with some of the Uneven surfaces out, you know with Rockets and out there We're even looking at possibly building up some launch areas Along the South Pier being able to get some SUVs out there with turnarounds to help us get equipment out to help us get Rockets out Possibly some electrical facilities from some of our equipment and our launch stations Increased safety through possibly some guardrails And some of the real interesting things as a possibility they mentioned a little bit earlier about Overnight lodging for some of our students Possibility of having some additional classrooms or meeting rooms that we could have some presentations for the students So there really does to be some synergy between the museum and our program Probably the main concern for Rockets for Schools is the impact that the USS Edson will have on our launch operations off the pier We have identified really one main issue and and that is our launch operations are governed by governed by NFPA 1127 and they have some pretty strict rules on Distances between the launch pads and any occupied buildings My reading of the standard defines the Edson as an occupied building We would have to have that building Evacuated during our launch activities We discussed this with Windsor. They seem open to working up some kind of a working Relationship on the days we launch to be able to accomplish that we need 1500 feet Obviously that pier isn't long enough to try to get out another 1500 feet So it almost pretty much comes down to that we'd have to evacuate the building I don't think it's of a concern of them that our Rockets are going to damp damage their ship Is that cardboard Rockets? It's more of the concern people Entering the ship leaving the ship like that being close to the areas for watching your three minutes. Okay. Thank you. Thank you Is anybody else I would like to speak go ahead Bidding My I'm rich Jordan. I'm at 1616 wallet and sheboygan Jim van der wheel and committee members I just want to say that I think that you've done the right thing tonight to start this going forward You've got a agreement and I have read it all it's a it's a forward-looking answer protective agreement and I understand as a citizen sheboygan that we need protections against these future expenses and Alderman Radke and and Alderman born's concerns as presented in the amendment Here which will eventually go forward to considerations for protecting the city from cost of the project are well taken But I think that one of the things that we need to look at as an advantage of this is in our concern for bringing tourism in here because I went to the Wisconsin.gov website to look for tourism sheboygan and sheboygan essentially an Invisible city when it comes to tourism right now regardless of what we think we've got just to give you an example There were 1600 almost 1700 projects in the state of Wisconsin. I sorted them by City so I could find sheboygan that goes here I was 1700 projects sockville sockville sockville Sharon Shorewood Sheboygan supposed to be in there. It isn't I went to The sections of the state northeast northwest southeast we should be in southeast here The only thing in Sheboygan County listed Kohler and Elkhart Lake When I finally found something on Sheboygan, let me read you the best thing they had to say about us Sheboygan in Places to go in Wisconsin says sheboygan is a great jumping-off point for visits to the nearby village of Kohler If you want these documents, I've got them for you We've got to start something here. I think that this project is gonna be a good one This isn't going to be the only anchor for tourism here, but we've got to start thinking about something's bringing here I think winca is bringing something that will be of value to us Please don't let us look this gift horse in the mouth. We've got the lease still to protect us but let's move that lease on and Let them start answering the questions They're not few and they're not easy, but let's get started on that for the city. Sheboygan. Thank you. Thank you Anybody else I would like to speak Ma'am. I'm Laura Spalinger. I live at 710 8 Broadway Avenue in Sheboygan. Can you pull the mic down a little bit? Thank you. Okay better. That sounds good And I'm a US Coast Guard artist and I'm a member of the American Society of Marine Artists So in my eyes there is nothing more beautiful than a glorious decked-out ship Which is to me a work of art I drove semi for like 14 years and I've been all over the country visiting various Museum ships on the road and I've always had a great time when I stopped to see them So she's a Navy ship and she's part of our history which in these times shows what our national defense is all about and She did do the three tours in Vietnam and physically took a hit and we do have a huge humongue community and Population in Wisconsin and particularly Sheboygan that we have graciously accepted For their services rendered in this war and this ship Edson She took this hit defending our integrity and I'm sure there wouldn't be any problem of obtaining volunteers for upkeep and maintenance of the ship from this humongue population And I've spoken with the local reps and veterans and they're all in favor. I'm working on an endorsement letters and stuff from them and They're These local American veterans that have served the border and the Edson Association is awaiting the final Location for the reunion. I've been emailing them and we are a port city This town was built because of it and a floating national historic landmark would continue to enhance this fact So I'd ask you to please review your options for keeping tourism afloat here. Don't let it go to the breakers It which may happen if Saginaw or Sheboygan can't take her and the Navy does prefer Sheboygan as Her location no question of why I needed there. I mean Saginaw also had a hit song, but that's about it so I Think the Edson is worth the home and I think she would be considered the Queen of the Harbor and She will be the one to put us on the map. Thank you Thank you. Is there any other discussion or some sorry is there any other Citizens that would like to speak Hearing none. We have one last item on the agenda and as adjournment Motion a second to adjourn all in favor signify by saying aye Chair votes aye for adjourn