 The appointed hour is 6.30 having been reached. I want to welcome everybody to this meeting of the Amherst Zoning Board of Appeals. My name is Steve Judge. As chair of the Amherst Zoning Board of Appeals, I call this meeting to order. Pursuant to Governor Baker's March 12th, 2020 order, suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law, General Laws, Chapter 30A, Section 18, and the governor's March 15th, 2020 order, imposing strict limitations on the number of people that may gather in one place, this public hearing of the town of Amherst Zoning Board of Appeals is being conducted via remote participation. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but the public can listen to the proceedings by clicking on a link in the town web page. In accordance with provisions of Massachusetts General Laws, Chapter 40A and Article 10, special permit granting authority of the Amherst Zoning Bylaw, this public meeting has been duly advertised and notice thereof has been posted and mailed to parties at interest. We will begin with a roll call of the regular members of the ZBA who have been in panel for consideration of items on tonight's agenda. Steve Judge, I'm here. Mr. Langsdale? Here. Ms. O'Meara? Ms. Parks? Here. Mr. Maxfield? Here. Ms. Waldman? Here. Mr. Barrick? Mr. Greeny? Mr. Meadows? Here. Also in attendance is Maureen Pollock, planner with the town, Christine Brestrup, Planning Director, and Rob Mora Building Commissioner. The Zoning Board of Appeals is a quasi-judicial body that operates under the authority of Chapter 40A of the General Laws of the Commonwealth for the purpose of promoting the health, safety, convenience, and general welfare of the inhabitants of the town of Amherst. One of the most important elements of the Amherst Zoning By-law is Section 10.38. Specific findings from this section must be made for all our decisions. All hearings and meetings are open to the public and are recorded by town staff. The procedure is as follows. The petitioner presents the application to the Board during the hearing after which the Board will ask questions for clarification or for additional information. After the Board has completed its questions, the Board will seek public input. The public speaks with the permission of the chair. If a member of the public wishes to speak, they should so indicate by using the raise hand function on their screen. The chair with the assistance of the staff will call upon people wishing to speak. When you are recognized, present your name and address to the Board for the record. All questions and comments must be addressed to the Board. The Board will normally hold public hearings where information about the project and input from the public is gathered, followed by public meetings for each. The public meeting portion is when the Board deliberates and is generally not an opportunity for public comment. If the Board feels it has enough information in time, it will decide upon the applications tonight. Each petition heard by the Board is distinct, evaluated on its own merit and the Board is not ruled by precedent. Statutorily for a special permit, the Board has 90 days from the close of the hearing to file a decision. For a variance, the Board has 100 days from the date of the filing to file its decision. No decision is final until the written decision is signed by the sitting Board members and is filed with the town clerk's office. Once the decision is filed with the town clerk, there is a 20 day appeal period for an agreed party to contest the decision with the relevant judicial body in superior court. After the appeal period, the permit must be recorded at the registry of deeds to take effect. Tonight's agenda, a public hearing on ZBA FY 2021-01, Harmsway LLC, pursuant to Massachusetts General Laws, Chapter 48, Section 8 and 15, as well as Section 10.1 of the Amherst Zoning Bylaw, the petitioner is requesting an appeal of the building commissioner's advisory opinion regarding Section 6.6 and 3.330 of the Amherst Zoning Bylaw. In an email correspondence dated July 1st, 2020, submitted to the Amherst Planning Director in relation to properties identified as map parcel 14B 250 and 14B 251. This is continued from September 3rd. ZBA 2021-03, Pioneer Property Services, requests a special permit to convert the existing detached garage to a residential unit, which will increase the number of residential units or converted dwellings from one to two under sections 3.324, 9.22 and 10.38 of the Zoning Bylaw, located at 275 East Pleasant Street, Map 11B, Parcel 63, Neighborhood Residential RN, Zoning District, and ZBA FY 2021-04, Greg Stutzman requests a special permit to allow a supplemental detached dwelling unit as an accessory to a one family detached dwelling under sections 5.0111 and 10.38 of the Amherst Zoning Bylaw, located at 1325 Southeast Street, Map 23D, Parcel 12, Outlying Residence RO, Zoning District. We will also have a general public comment period and any other business not anticipated within the last 48 hours. The first order of business is ZBA FY 2021-01, Armsway LLC. I'm accusing myself from this matter and Mr. Langsdale will be the acting chair. Alternate members, Ms. Waldman and Mr. Meadows, will sit on the panel. Mr. Langsdale, you have the chair. Thank you. So for this application, we have submissions from the applicants, notice of appeal of interpretation of building commissioner prepared by Daniel J. Finnegan of the Bulkley Richardson attorneys at law dated July 29th, 2020. We have an email correspondence from the building commissioner, Rob Mora to planning director, Christine Brestrup subject, Amherst Media sent July 1st, 2020. We have email correspondence from planning director, Christine Brestrup to Bucky Sparkle PE of the Zenegear at all subject, Amherst Media setback issue sent July 10th, 2020. We have submissions from the town of Amherst. We have one project application report dated September 30th, 2020. Email correspondence from attorney, attorney, Joel Bard to planning director, Christine Brestrup at all subject, Amherst Planning Board, Amherst Media setback issue sent August 2nd, 2020. We have email correspondence from attorney, Joel Bard to planner, Maureen Pollock at all subject regarding ZBA FY 2021-01 Armsway LLC sent August 28th, 2020. We have an aerial map, map 14B parcels 250 and 251. We have planning board SPR 2020-11 approved site plan planning board SPR 2020-11 approved landscape plan. We have then submissions from the attorney, Michael Pill representing Amherst Media, LLC. We have an email correspondence from attorney, Michael Pill to planner, Maureen Pollock at all subject ZBA 2021-01 Armsway LLC scheduled for public hearing September 3rd, 2020. Legal memo to Amherst zoning board sent August 18th, 2020. We have an email attachment correspondence from attorney, Michael Pill subject regarding ZBA 2021-01 Armsway LLC scheduled for public hearing on September 3rd, 2020 dated August 18th, 2020. Then we have email to and the two attachments email correspondence from attorney, Michael Pill to planner, Maureen Pollock at all subject ZBA 2021-01 Armsway LLC schedule for public hearing September 3rd, 2020 article in today mass lawyer's weekly newspaper sent August 18th, 2020. Then we have the email attachment Henry W. Comstock Jr. trustee one and another two versus zoning board of appeals of Gloucester and others. And then finally a variance not needed to exceed height requirement, Massachusetts Lawyers Weekly dated August 13th, 2020. We have also today from today an email from attorney Finnegan that was sent to Maureen Pollock at 1.58 p.m. today, August 1st. We have also an email from the attorney Michael Pill sent also to Ms. Pollock today at 3.23 on October 1st, 2020. So now is there anyone representing Armsway? Yes, good evening members of the board. Stephen Holstrum representing Armsway LLC. All right. Would you like to present your application? Certainly, thank you. I don't really need to belabor the point. I don't think essentially my client has informed me that they would like to withdraw this application. All right. So then the board we need to make a motion to accept the withdrawal of the application for the ZBA 2020-21. I move to accept the withdrawal. All right. Is there a second? Second. Okay. So now we have to go, of course. I'm Keith Langsdale, acting chair. I vote I, Ms. Parks. I. Mr. Maxfield. I. Ms. Waldman. I. And, oh, Mr. Meadows, excuse me. I. Good. So that's a unanimous five out of five. So the board then has voted to accept the withdrawal of this application. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Langsdale. The second item on the agenda is ZBA FY 2021-03 pioneer property services LLC, requesting a special permit to convert the existing detached garage to a residential unit, which will increase the number of residential units converted dwellings from one to two under sections 3.324, 9.22 and 10.38 of the zoning bylaws located at 275 East Pleasant Street, Map 11B, Parcel 63, Neighborhood Residence, RN Zoning District. Alternative member, Mr. Meadows will serve on this panel. Are there any disclosures? I was unable to attend the site visit with the other board members, but I did visit the property yesterday afternoon. Is there somebody who'd like to summarize the site visit any of the board members? Who attended the site visit? Yeah, I'll, we met with the applicant and he showed us the area in front of the garage where the concrete is to be taken up and a new curb is to be put in. The, where is concrete parking now will become grass. Then there will be a new cut in the curb to the east of the one that's in now so that they can build the driveway to the back of the property where they're going to make the parking area. We walked around the barn down through that area and he showed us, he specified different places where doors would be put in, where there's a proposed 20 foot deck. Then we went on around the barn, I mean the garage and he pointed out one of the lights that is on the house that is existing now. And we talked somewhat about what kind of lighting will be put there. We then went around to the front again and he had pointed out the trees and shrubs and such on the property. There were some questions asked about the size of the garage and the layout that would happen there. I can't remember others at the moment. Has anybody else, any other members can remember questions? We also looked at where the proposed parking would be and looked at the space below that the owner may use for storage and I think we discussed that the attic will have utilities in it. It won't be a living space and there will be a walkway that goes from the parking area into the center of, so there's a near the entryway of both of the structures. Ms. Maxwell, anything else you wanted to add? Yeah, that was most of it. I guess the last thing I would just say as well that I remember from that was, the staircase in the basement area that goes up to the first floor that that staircase will be removed and ultimately the floor expanded was what we were told would just go and be done. I guess that pretty much comports with what I, my experience at the site visit. We received the following submissions. The special permit application, Darling Park's management plan, a project summary. For the existing building, we received exterior building photographs and the floor plan of the existing one family detached dwelling. For the existing detached garage. We've received exterior billing photographs of the existing detached garage interior building photographs of the existing detached garage floor plan of the existing detached garage. Unit 275B converted from the existing garage. The floor plan of that, the basement plan for the proposed converted dwelling. Exterior elevations, north, east, south, and west. A site plan. Exterior lighting fixtures for both the entrance lighting and a parking lot and pathway lighting. We've received a parking lot, a mock up of parking lot signs for 275A and 275B. We've received photographs of the trash recycling area, a lease agreement, a complaint response form, and interior building photographs of the existing one family detached dwelling. Staff submissions have, there's a project application report that we're working off of tonight, and there's comments from the Amherst Health Inspector, the building inspector, Edmund Smith, dated September 10th, 2020. We've also received five public comment submissions, a comment from Mr. Bruce Carson, dated September 22nd, 2020. Comments from Mr. Bruce Carson, dated September 30th, 2020. Comments from Jonathan Holton Cohen, dated September 30th, 2020. Comments from Ray LaRaja, dated September 30th, 2020. And comments from Richard Rosnoy, dated September 30th, 2020. Those are the submissions to the, and the documents that we have regarding this application. Does the applicant wish to speak regarding the application? Mr. Chair, I do not see the applicant in attendance. If for some reason I'm just not able to see you in the list of attendees, please use the raise your hand feature, or if you're calling in, please press star nine. So Jennifer Mendelson has her hand up. Okay. Jen, can you hear us? Okay, here we go, okay. Wow, you had his nervous there. Sorry, I just saw Jennifer and I didn't think much of that. Okay, sorry about that. All right. Is it okay to, we can speak now? Yeah, please identify yourself for the record. Okay, I'm Neil Mendelson, and this is Jennifer. And I'm Jennifer Mendelson. And I want to first open by just thanking the planning department, the zoning board, and our neighbors for considering our application for a special permit to convert the garage at 275 East Pleasant into a three bedroom, one bath rental unit. My wife, Jen and I live on Gray Street in Amherst, which is about a mile from this property. We have a small business, Pioneer Property Services, which specializes in property maintenance, remodeling, and property rentals. I work at our business full-time and Jen works full-time too, but also works at Hopkins Academy in Hadley. In 2019, we purchased 275 East Pleasant and made significant improvements to the grounds and the existing farmhouse. The lot in the house were badly neglected when we bought it, but we did a lot of things. We remodeled it, we got a permit, round permit with the town and all the appropriate building permits to change it from a two bedroom to a three bedroom house. If the board grants us permission to pursue this project, we pledge to the town and our neighbors to do everything in our power to keep the grounds and buildings in very good condition and in harmony with the neighborhood and to select responsible tenants. We feel the movement of the parking area to the rear of the property and restoration of the front of the garage to lawn will be particularly beneficial as the existing parking area is very close to the sidewalk. Under our site plan, the sidewalk and curb in front of the garage would be restored and only a 15 foot driveway cut would be needed to the left of the garage. The parking lot would allow drivers to pull directly forward onto the street instead of backing up as they do now. So I feel like the parking area would be a good thing regardless of if this is approved or not, something we want to do just to make it safer. Our goal is to not only construct a very nice rental unit inside, but also to give the building good curb appeal. I plan to put four-inch white trim boards around all doors and windows and I would freshen up the clabbered siding, put a nice front stoop and a nice grass front yard. The grade of the area in front of the garage would be changed from slope to flat and consistent with the yard surrounding the farmhouse and the patio. Before I go through our application, I would just like to say that Jen and I take a lot of pride in what we do. We are very engaged with our tenants and enjoy providing quality housing and good customer service. We would assume all responsibilities associated with the maintenance and rental of both units on the property. Although there would be an appointed resident manager, we would respond immediately to any issues as soon as they are brought to our attention. We know there are impacts and concerns and we want to work cooperatively with the town and our neighbors if we are given this opportunity. And I'm reading this, but I truly mean this. I mean, we're willing to give our numbers to all our neighbors in the area and it's a pleasure for me to respond. This is what I do. I love property maintenance and management and I like to solve problems and be responsive. And so I did get, I know there was a lot of comments received like today or within a couple of days. And I have looked at them and I take them to heart. And I mean, we live right like 50 feet from a rental property. There's rental properties on our street everywhere on Gray Street too. And so I, we understand. I mean, I understand how neighbors may not be thrilled about it, but I think in the grand scheme of things, we're only asking for six bedrooms and two baths. I mean, on the whole entire property. So some of the comments I saw were like, we're asking for six units or something. And I just want to set the record straight that what we're asking to add one additional small rental unit that we would make very nice. And I don't know, but that would definitely take pride in selecting responsible tenants and ensuring that they're abiding by all the town rules and regulations at the rental properties. And the parking, we could have asked for four. We feel that three parking spaces per unit would be reasonable. So now I'd like to go to the application itself. So we're share a screen. Yeah, the application first. And can everybody see that? Or no. Nothing yet. Not yet. Okay. So in the center, in the bottom of your screen, there you go. There we go. Got it. Okay. All right, so. So maybe start with the site plan. Oh, okay. All right. Yeah, so we can go directly. So we don't need to go line by line through the application. No. Okay. All right. So let's just go, we're going to close this and open up the, okay. All right, so I'll start up where the existing house is. My mouse isn't working too good here, but there's pavers going up to the house. The trash receptacles, which I had pointed out, there will be another partition to separate the trash that won't be seen from the street. I built, yeah. So I built an existing partition to give privacy to the patio area that's connected to the front unit. And I plan to make something similar to shield the trash totes. The area in front of the garage, that's where it's sloped now, but it will be at least like eight inches below the slab of the garage. And then it will be seated. There's a asphalt path proposed from the driveway to the front door. The sidewalk and the curb will be restored in front of the garage. And then a new curb cut will be done. And also, this reminds me that I had spoke to the town, public works, Jason's skills about the parking. We first bought the house, because I had proposed to put the parking on East Pleasant since the address is 275 East Pleasant. At that time, Jason told me that that would be not good because of the intersection. And to have a curb cut that close to an intersection would be unsafe. And he suggested that we put the parking where we have it now. So that's why we had proposed this area. And because of the Arborvite that screened the parking area. So as you can see, also the deck will be off the back. That's the second entrance to the dwelling. And their stairs going down to the driveway. So there will be those two access points from the parking area to the new unit. And we would like, we had initially started with two spots for the front unit and two for the 275 B. But we feel like three and three would be probably the best setup. And then if we could have flexibility to change based on how many tenants are in each unit. And so I would have my parking signs like I have in my plan. But I would maybe have magnetic numbers so I could change out the designation for the parking spots. We do have an area for snow plow, excess snow at the rear of the lot. So it would be pushed straight down. The 20 foot separation there between the parking spaces would be ideal for backing out. So they pull straight into the parking area. And then they can back up and back towards the rear of the lot and then straight out to the street. There is also an asphalt path that goes from the parking lot up to the house, that the existing house that would be accessed by the patio. And all this development would not need. We would not need to alter like every tree that's on the lot stays. It's only grading of the area for the parking area. And like I say, we did keep it to three to six. And we didn't, I think, which I think is reasonable. The lights also are shown on the site plan. So there's a legend on here that shows the flood lights are on the corners of the, no, those are the signs, but on the corners of the unit are these motion sensing night sky compliant lights. And then the entrance is where we will make all the lights the same on both properties. And the barn lights are going to be at the entrance doors. So there would be barn light here, barn light there, and then these two. And so we feel that the pathways and entrances will be adequately lighted, but they won't. They'll be downcast and night sky compliant and everything and should not be a nuisance or anything. And does anybody have any questions about the site plan? I have one quick question. What's the grade between the end of the parking, proposed parking lot and the boundary, your property boundary, off to the, I guess that's the south? Yeah. What's the grade there? Your cursor is showing what I'm interested in. Yeah. I didn't see it on any of the maps. Does the town, does the town map have? Oh, yeah, there's a topography overlay that we could run it with or we could put on there. But it does slope. It does slope down. It's not, I wouldn't say it's steep, but I would say it drops maybe five or six feet from there. We don't have to spend a lot of time on that. We don't have one right now, but we should get one from the town. We may want to. OK. We probably want to know what that is. We are proposing asphalt on the driveway. I think that's on there. Can I ask a question? Yes, Ms. Parks. So the parking area is going to have asphalt on it or concrete or what's the medium for the parking? Asphalt. OK. And then you were saying that people could pull into the space and then pull out and back into like where you have the first excess snow pile. Is there going to be any kind of asphalt there or would they be backing onto grass to turn around? Yeah, that would be grass. But I was thinking putting maybe it would be good to put gravel or some. We just wanted to keep the paving at a minimum. But this is why I don't think I'll bring it up. Yeah, it would just be for the end for the end to spots would be backing into that area. But these would have room to back up and pull forward. OK. OK. Should we go maybe to the floor plan? Is that? Could we? Excuse me. Go ahead, Mr. Lineskill. Couple of questions. First of all, on the lighting, the barn lights over the entrances, are those motion sensitive? Yes, I would put those on, yes. OK, yes. The floods, are they dark sky compliant? Yes, I did make sure when I specced those out, they are. And at what height will they be affixed? Yeah, they will be all on the first floors at the top plate. So it's like eighth foot on the building. OK, except for the one on the house, the present house, that one's up near the gable. And that's the one you showed us. And that's, I don't know exactly how high it is. It could be 18 feet high off the ground. Right. So I'm concerned about that as a flood light, as flood lights. And so all of these lights are motion sensitive, right? Right, now the ones that are on the existing house now are not motion sensitive, except for the front. The front one is. The other two that are on there now are switched. So I would change those. Right. OK, we'd make that a condition, certainly. But I'm concerned about the height of this one on the house, their flood lights. And putting them up that high on a building, is there another place to put them on the building that does not exceed the present location of the light that's there? Right, yeah. I think actually we could remove that one and then do a light post by the stairway up onto the patio. And this area would accomplish the same thing. Because that's why I was thinking that that light would illuminate the pathway to the stair up onto the concrete. So I could put just a post, a lamp post there. OK. And take that, remove the other one. OK. And that then could be one of the barn light type. Yes. Light. Yeah. Instead of a flood light. OK. Now the other question I have is from that comes from one of the butters, their response, is you've said that you were told that a curb cut up on Southeast Street would be too close to the intersection for safety reasons. Is that correct? That's correct. OK. So I was but for the parking lot, but would there be a place that you could bring the driveway from Southeast down to the parking area rather than on Strong Street? I mean, that was one of the concerns of one of your neighbors is that the proposed entrance to the parking area would have cars coming and going across when there are children because of Wildwood School. And my daughter went there. I know what that's like with the kids walking and everything. In terms of that, in terms of you thinking about that, and I guess partly an answer for me to the butters is where the parking exists right now, you have three cars there. And they're literally almost back onto the sidewalk. And how would your proposed driveway be more dangerous than the existing parking? I agree. I agree strongly with that. Ever since we bought it, that parking bothered me. And I have wanted to get it away. Right on the sidewalk. Now, the only thing I would say for me that I would say about that is you have cars coming out of the parking lot up to enter on Strong Street, either direction. I guess part of the question is if children are walking along that street and somebody comes up the driveway towards Strong Street, if they don't stop, it then creates a problem, a dangerous problem, if there are kids who are just stepping into that area. As opposed to the existing parking, to back out of there, you're just starting to move. And you have to look and to back out for traffic as well as for pedestrian as well as street traffic. So would there be something that you could do at the head of the driveway so that whoever's coming out of there has to stop and make sure they stop, look both ways, as we always were taught, and then move on? I guess that's the only difference that I can see in terms of the danger of what you have as opposed to what you're proposing. Yes, I guess on your first point about the driving off of East Pleasant, if we made a path to the driveway or to the parking area, it's extremely close to the house. The site plan actually doesn't show it that well because the Arbor Vitey, if you remember any of the board members remember from the site visit, they're pretty close. It would be like you could barely drive a car between the Arbor Viteys and the house. And then it's making this the turn by that large maple right here and there's a roots all around the stairs up on the patio. So I think if anything, it would be the parking would need to be in the front yard of the property on the East Pleasant side. And like I say, that's what we proposed when we first got the property and we're told that wouldn't that would not be approved. All right. And then, oh, and then yes, so that's a good point on the pulling out with children in the area and pedestrians. And, you know, we could put a stop sign at the top of where it pulls out. And we could also, you know, I would definitely advise all the tenants and I could even put that in the lease and, you know, highlight it. And yeah, I'm willing to do what I- I think for me, I think that would be a good idea to put it into the lease only because you're gonna have, at least you're gonna have six people in, with six cars who don't know that area particularly and maybe over time they get to know it. But the fact that kids are walking by that not at the moment, of course, but hopefully sometime in the future, in the near future, that's a very heavily traveled path for kids. In fact, there's on the corner strong in East Pleasant, there's a crossing guard, isn't there? Yes. During the year. So it's a heavily traveled, it's that heavily traveled that traffic that I'm concerned with when they come back to school. So that if something like a stop sign would be good, if you could also make that part of the lease agreement so that people who move in understand immediately what the possible problems are. Right. I mean, for me that, I think that would be a good idea. Yeah, even with the current tenants that we have, I give them a printed map of the sidewalk and where they cannot be parking and that there is a school nearby. Right. And for them to be aware of that, definitely. We can make something like that part of the conditions. Yeah. Thank you. Go ahead, Mr. Mendelsohn. Oh, Mr. Maxfield. Yeah, I guess, I think we're pretty much given everyone has that concern of children crossing right there. Cause I know it's also kind of an incline, so people are gonna be coming up a hill to that sidewalk. So I definitely like the idea of some type of stop sign, maybe some type of rounded mirror so people can see farther if there's any obstruction from the house. Even just a careful of children walking sign. But I know at the bottom, we were saying that section just off, if we're looking at the map just to the left where people would be backing into, I'd suggest maybe putting pavers in there, the type of things that you can go on but grass can still grow in between them if you wanted to extend that parking lot. Cause I would like to see it mandated that cause they know anyone who'd be parking in 275A or 275B, those spots at the back, if they don't have that area to back out, they might attempt to back out. And I definitely like to see anybody leaving that parking lot would have to be leaving forward rather than backwards. So kind of ensuring that that's in there as well, that anyone knows they have to pull forward out of that lot. Yeah, all good stuff. I like it. All right, and you'd be amenable to a condition requiring some kind of additional area in the parking to facilitate backing up. Is that right? Okay. All right. Why don't you continue on your presentation on your application? Yeah, another thing came to mind also when we're discussing the public comments and our neighbors to the east, the larges and their, the headlights that may shine into their house. And I would propose, I'm happy to put a tall fence that would actually block. So the arbor vitis aren't good enough. Then there's another solid wood fence or some way to block the headlights completely from going over that way. So I'll just offer that. And what else? You asked, while you're thinking that, you asked for two waivers. If I'm right, one is the you had two waivers that you were looking for. One is landscaping and then a sign plan waivers. Is that correct? You didn't come up with a landscaping plan and you've asked for a waiver from the requirement for a landscaping plan. And also the sign plan, can you explain that? Yeah, I just, because of what we've gone over with the existing landscaping and the signs, I guess it's just since it's a smaller project. So the only changes you're going to make, if I could maybe a better way to say this, the only changes you're going to make is in that little front sec landscaping changes aside from the parking lot. Isn't that little lands patched in front of the garage. You're going to remove the asphalt and plant something there, put green space there. And then on the side, and everything else stays the same. I can't hear you, Mr. Mendelson. Right, yes. Yes, everything that's on there, on the map, on the site plan is what we're proposing and what you just said is accurate. And then on the signs, you would have six signs that are 12 by 24 for parking. Is that, that's kind of big. It almost seems, that's a large, that seems commercial to me, but more so than what you'd see in a normal residential place. Maybe you can talk to me about why you chose something so large if there's a reason for that. Yeah, I guess I was just like looking at a piece of, I said 12 by 24 on one and then I said 12 by 18 on another. I was just looking at like an 11 by 17. I just pulled it out of my, I'll make it smaller, right? Yeah, smaller would be better, I guess, too. I mean, but like nine, like 10. You can suggest something. I think that's, it just seemed large to me and it just adds sort of a commercial look to a residential neighborhood. Yeah, I agree. So let's look for a smaller sign that would be, you know, I don't know what signs are less than 11 by seven, something like that. How does that work? Matt may have to find something. All right. Okay. Yep. It's my understanding that you're intending to use the basement for a workspace and storage for your business, correct? Yes, that's correct. Which would lead me to believe that the trucker van that you use for your property management business would, of necessity, probably have to go down into the parking area while you're in the basement working. Is that correct? Correct. Are you intending to reserve one of those parking spaces for yourself so that, I know that we see a lot of other applications that have less than one parking space per bedroom, which is what you essentially have got here. And if you're intending to use a parking space for your own use, which would be logical, are you expecting then to reserve one of those spaces for yourself and only have five spaces for tenants? Well, you bring up a good point and I would be willing to do that, to take away one tenant to get me one parking space. Because if I use, right now I use the garage as my shop, I'm in and out of there a lot. I'm sure all the neighbors would agree with that statement. And so I would agree to a condition where I give two to the front unit and I take one and then three for the other unit. And I would like the idea of making magnetic signs so that we could change up the parking spaces as needed based on the tendency. I think if you limit it for our purposes, if you limit five and one, five for your renters and one for you, and then in each of the leases you decide where who gets two and who gets three, that's fine with us. I think that would be fine. You don't have to designate that in perpetuity right now. But if you're doing five and one, that makes sense to put that either as a condition or some other kind of, as a condition, you should do it as a condition. All right, anything else that you wanna describe to us? Mr. Mendelson. No, I think we covered that pretty good. I know that the Marine said that she had the topographical, she texted me as she got the topographical map for the property. Is that right? Can you, do we know what that slope is behind the parking lot, Maureen? Sure, just bear with me for one second. Okay, so this is East Pleasant Street and this is Strong Street to give you a reference. I think this was the area someone was asking about where the drainage, where the topography, where the drainage flows as is. So here is 365 contour and then it gets decreases here. So this is the line for 260. So currently a water flows like this and like this. Yeah. It flows in this direction. Okay, but we have approximately a three-foot drop from two to three-foot drop from the parking, end of the parking lot to the end of the property. Yeah, yeah. Okay, thank you. Gentle. I think, oh, I'm sorry. No, go ahead. I was just gonna tell you can finish up or if there's something else you'd like to present. I think maybe if we just show the floor plan that would pretty much cover what we wanted to do. And I think if you can show the exterior of the house, exterior pictures as well, but that floor plan is great to start with. Okay. All right, we'll start with the- Oh, Mr. Chair, Mr. Mora is raising his hand? Oh, sure, but he's muted. Oh, mm-hmm, okay. Mr. Mora. Mr. Mora. I think he's still muted. Hold on. He's still muted. I'll let you do it. I don't know how to do it. If I can. Yeah, I think I'm good. Yeah, just a couple of points I wanted to make on some of that discussion. First, I'm headed with the extension of the parking area. I just wanted to point out that it looks like the lot coverage is almost maxed out as proposed. There would need to be some sort of adjustment if the applicant was gonna extend the parking area, some adjustment in another location. And the other piece was the discussion about the owner's business use of the property. That's not part of this application. So I would probably suggest that we don't get into conditions relative to the business use because it's not a buy-right allowed activity because the owner doesn't live there. So that would have to be handled for a different application. And Rob, do those papers that have cement papers that have spaces for grass to grow, are they considered hard? Is that considered a hard surface so that counts towards the surface lot coverage number? A portion of it, a percentage of it does, they can be anywhere from 20 to 50%. Usually it really depends on the design, but some of it is counted in lockers. So we need to look at the manufacturer's stack and determine what that percentage is. Yeah, okay. And then you'd have to take, because you are a tenth of a percent, I think off the maximum lock coverage, you'd have to look at taking some hardscape away someplace else if you're gonna do that, right? Right. Okay. Quick, why don't we go to the floor layout of the converted dwelling? So, yeah, there's the exterior photos. This is the existing farmhouse. We're not seeing. We're not seeing. Oh, we're not seeing that. We're just seeing the file. Do a new share. So stop this share and do a screen, share screen. Do a screen, share screen. Yeah, the top left. Top left. Yeah, that probably will help you out. And then there, now we see the exterior photos of the bombardment garage. All right. So there's that. And these are photos of the garage existing. You can see the construction of the garage has these tie rods that go up to the ridge and forms like a truss type of situation there. And then the basement has got large pilings, steel reinforced, it's like a five inch concrete slab. The turnbuckles, this is where the tie rods are connected to the beam and go up to the ridge. And then the existing floor plan, these are the stairs that we intend to remove and then put, make that the floor of the third bedroom. So you come in the front door, into the great room, kitchen, living area, bathroom, three bedrooms right there, and the deck and stairs down to the parking area. Does anybody have any questions about the floor plan? You can proceed. Okay. Excuse me. Go ahead. Just to the, as I'm looking at it to the left of the deck, there seems to be an appliance. What is that? Yeah, that was the fridge. And I was thinking that could be a pantry area, also probably electric panel in there. That's the area. If you look at the elevations at the elevation outside and meet just to the right of the patio, is stairs that go down to the basement. So that's that bump out, the only part of the garage that bumps out and it's over stairs to the basement. Okay. Thank you. Front elevation, east, south. So that's that area. Question. Yes, Mr. Langsdale. One of the butters, excuse me, in their comments, talked about the condition of the siding of the garage and saying that it hadn't been dealt with in 30 years or more. They're figured, not mine. But could you go back to the north elevation? Okay, thank you. Right now, there are two large garage doors there. They obviously are coming out. New windows are being put in and a front door. How will you match the siding when you have to take out those two large doors? And the same applies for the rest of the building in the back where it's changing out and wherever windows are put in. How do you plan to deal with the siding? Well, I can tell you, I replaced several boards along the front of the building when we first bought it. And I found the stain that matches it. And I think you barely notice it. So I did do that when, and I can even share with you before photos from when we bought it and show you that, because that was mainly where the rot had happened on the siding because you have the driveway going directly up to the foundation. And so the water was running off and hitting the pavement and splashing up onto the siding and rotting it out. So I did replace quite a bit there and I went around the whole building and I feel like it's got character and I really love it. And I would just fix what needs to be fixed and blend it in nicely. And like I also said, the elevation doesn't show it, but I plan on using nice wide trim boards around the door and windows and really give it a nice look. I'm excited if I get approval, I'm excited to make it look really nice for the neighborhood. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Any other, Ms. Parks. I just have a quick question. What medium is going to be under the deck? I think it's two slides down from where you are right now. Right now it's grass. And I would plan just to keep it as grass I don't know how well it would hold up, but I would like to try just to keep that area as grass. Okay. Well, if I may add with your coverage, you're so close to the lot limits, you're gonna have to maintain it as a soft surface, grass or some kind of vegetation because you're getting close to the limits on your lot coverage. Okay, is there anything else you want to present, Mr. Mendelssohn? No, that was it and I, let me just, in closing I just want to again thank the board, our neighbors in the planning department, especially Maureen for her many emails and phone calls and helping us navigate this process. We appreciate the opportunity to explain our application and hope to address any questions or concerns and connections with this project. Thank you. Thank you. Do the board members have any questions of Mr. and Mrs. Mendelssohn? Yeah, one thing that we didn't, excuse me. Yes, Mr. Langsdale. Yes. One thing we didn't address when we were talking about the parking area that was also again from one of the abutters, a question about the drainage with the asphalt of the parking lot area, as well as the driveway to the parking area because that's on a downward slope. So is there any consideration toward what drainage problems there might be? And also in the winter, if you have excess snow stockpile at the southern end of this parking area, as it melts and other snow melts and or rains come, there's gonna be a considerable runoff of water off of this driveway and parking area. So I wondered if there's any consideration has been given to what kind of mitigation could be done to keep water from flowing into other properties. Yeah. Can we address that? Yes, yes. Okay. We don't have a plan for that. So I would be happy to do some mitigation there to prevent that. I mean, it is, yeah, I'm not an expert in this so I can't speak to it. I would have to, if the board would like us to have another study or something done, I guess we could have this reviewed and... Well, there are people who can take a look at drainage and help you design something, whether it's a rain garden or slope or something that would mitigate the runoff to the neighbors and that is something that we may hear about in the comments from the public. You should think that may be something that is of concern to the board. And I would encourage you to give that some thought. I mean, if you're willing to do that, that may be a condition or it may be something that we'd wanna see before we vote on final passage of the special permit to see that it's done. But I would encourage it. I think that'll be brought up. I'm assuming it'll be brought up by the public comments. Any other comments or questions for the applicant from board members or from staff? All right, we should open it up to public comment then. Maureen, if you put the, you can identify, Maureen will identify you if you wish to comment. If you do wish to comment, raise your hand through the function on the Zoom meeting app, the raise hand function. Please identify yourself and for the record and have your comments for about four minutes if you would. Okay, so we have Ray-La-Reha who would like to speak. Ray? Sure, I'm Ray-La-Rajat-Seven Strong Street. Thank you, Mr. Chair and board members. Well, I appreciate the efforts to this point about how the Mendelssohn's have started to fix the property in some ways. We're moving some overgrown weeds, painting the house and some interior stuff since taking it over. By the way, as an aside, he told my wife about a very different plans for this house, but that's a different issue. I have several objections to this new project. If there's gonna be an exception for a permit for a residential manager, raises a lot of issues. First, we're gonna need assurances about qualifications in the context for this manager. He or she should be living in a separate house, not mixed with other occupants because I think that creates conflicts of interest and a psychic barrier to reporting violations and managing other problems. It's also important to see a management plan for the property, including a specific role for the residential manager, the relationship to the tenants, how long they're gonna be there on the contract and any other demonstrations that they're gonna be responsible for the property. In fact, I would argue the property manager should be a certified property manager or a licensed realtor or something similar. Second, I'm really troubled by the parking lot that's gonna be built for six cars right up against my property at Seven Strong and my adjacent property, which I own. Well, I don't, look, I don't wanna have six occupants. Few people do, especially on a small property and structures, but I understand that policies to increase housing density in the downtown campus area are public good, but this argument about public good and the exception for granting high density permits really becomes less tenable when there's not an offsetting commitment to limiting cars and parking spaces on property. I mean, these residents have easy access to public transportation, they can walk. There's campus parking across the street. These will be students. A significant argument for allowing high density is to minimize traffic pollution noise. And I see the applicants is getting all the benefits here of high density without the aligned benefits of the community of reduced car travel, noise, there's gonna be more of all these other things. So I think it's an unfair trade-off and poor public policy. The neighborhood is gonna get all these costs plus children walking wild, which is additional danger. We see the students peeling out from the other side. It's very concerning to us. There should be no new driveway, no new parking. There should be no more than three cars. Six cars will have to back onto strong street right at the intersection, dangerous, dangerous, dangerous. And I agree with what Mr. Delano said about the children walking by every day. We see them, we watch them go into school. Our children used to do this. Again, UMass parking lot across the street, they can apply for passes there. Third, I would wanna know the proposed surface area this was brought up. It's gonna cause runoff on our properties, which sit downhill. How's it gonna be mitigated? Thanks again, Mr. Lansdale for raising the issue. We already have some water settling in those areas even without that. Fourth, if there's a problem, there's gonna be a problem with lighting. There's no doubt. My house is right there with a bedroom right there, a study where I do most of my work right there and I work into the night facing that where the applicant wants to put a parking lot. And I expect headlights coming and going, turning on the floodlights, the tree line is spotty. So that, if anything's gotta be filled in, but I still, again, I appreciate Mr. Lansdale's question on this about the lights and the high floodlights. I'm really concerned. That's gonna be a problem. Aside from even the dangers of pulling off into the street. And then last two short points, we would like Mr. Mendelssohn said he'd provide a phone number. I think that should be on the rental permit to have the name of the owner and the phone where they can be reached. 24 seven, not the name of the LLC. And I don't know how the occupant rent is gonna work, but it should not be rented by bedroom at all. So for all these reasons, I urge you to reject the planned conversion of the garage and property at 275 East Pleasant Street. Thank you for listening to me, board members. Thank you, Mr. LaRosha. And next we have Ms. LaRosha. Let me, hello. Hi, can you hear me? Yes. Okay, so I just wanna echo the concerns that my husband just stated. You know, initially when the Mendelssohn's moved in, they were gonna do it Airbnb in the existing house. And then there was talk of making like a stone house farm, like afterschool program and summer camp and the garage, which if I could just say your neighbors would be jumping up and down for joy if that was going to be the plan. There's, it's just way too small of a lot. And in a way too, on a busy corner with school children walking by, it's just way too big of a plan for that lot. And I just really want to just echo the concerns of every neighbor who lives on property surrounding this one, that it's just, this should not go through. Again, we're really happy about the house that is existing there. And why not make the garage a garage? Keep it a garage. It could be for the parking for the people there who are already existing there. And potentially maybe it could be a one bedroom unit above that. But to have three bedrooms, six cars, all this water running off onto my backyard and my property, slamming doors, lights. I am 100% against this. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. LaRosha. Maureen, it looks like we have... Oh yes. We have Jonathan. Come in one second. Jonathan, can you talk? Hi, yes. Thank you so much. And I want to echo the comments that have been stated previously. We do, my partner and I live on East Pleasant Street. And we do also really appreciate the renovations that have taken place. It has, the yard has been better maintained. And we do really appreciate that. We are also concerned about traffic and noise. We already have these issues here, but I'd hate to add anything that would contribute to that. I'm also in favor of additional renovations that make the place nicer for the people who are living there. One bedroom place over a garage sounds great. Having, using the garage as the garage, I think would actually make it... By the point you put a stop sign in, that's actually at the point where people would be coming out of the garage anyway. So they would actually be stopped already and they could just look both ways, the way that the garage is intended. And I also agree that it feels like there's just too many people there. I understand that the limit on a single dwelling is four people. And I understand that these are two separate dwellings. And at the same time, they seem like they're going to be connected and they're cramped up against each other. We will not have the exact same issue of the lights because we're a little bit further away, but we do experience noise and cars and traffic. And I think that putting the driveway on the East Pleasant side is also not a great move, not just because of the Arbor Vite, but also because that's exactly where the crossing guard is. And as I mentioned in my letter, the crossing guard is an important part of this community as are the students crossing. And so I just wanna echo my urging for the board to please reject the proposal and also to encourage the Mendelssohn's to find another way to increase the value of the property, which we would very much appreciate. We have Richard, Ron, no, sorry, Richard. Mr. Rosnoy, would you please identify yourself? Yeah, I just hit an unmute. Can you hear me now? There you go. Now we can, yes. Richard Rosnoy, 11 strong feet. First, I'd like to note that I submitted a written statement and you did acknowledge it. And there was an error that I used in the syntax referring to six units. And of course, the reference should have been to six people. So I'm the one responsible for that. And I'm sorry about that. I'll support my neighbors, but I wanted to also note that for these six parking... Hold on, we lost you. One second, Richard. Hold on, hold that thought. Richard? Okay. Okay, continue, start over again. Sorry, Richard. Right. So I wanted to acknowledge for these six parking spaces, there's no accommodation should someone come to visit. And there's no parking on the street around there and certainly not on East Pleasant. And the nearest street is a wildwood court that where there's also no parking during the daytime. And so it's really an unworkable situation. I am not in favor of the solution being a stop sign at the end of the driveway before entering onto the street. I mean, it's a great idea and in theory, it should work, but let's face it, in the morning, when people are late to get to class or to get to work, there's going to be just non-compliance with any sort of a stop sign. You can put all the words that you want and at least about it, but it's just not going to be there. And I want to strongly encourage that you do not issue a waiver for landscaping. There should be a landscaping plan for this parcel. You've heard a lot of information about how the lights are going to be affecting neighbors and the neighborhood, how parking is going to be affecting neighbors and the neighborhood, and how they have maxed out on the lot covering. If there's ever a site that needs a landscaping plan, it's this. I'd also note that we haven't heard much about the management plan and none of you have really have queried the applicants much on the resident manager requirement and what they intend to do about this. I think just about everybody who submitted comments had grave concerns about who a resident manager would be, the duration of what this person would be, how they would be related to others in the living units. This is a very important part of this and really it has not been flushed out. There's not been adequate discovery on your part as to what the qualifications of a resident manager would be. We address this. And so I encourage you to address it further. I don't think it's been adequately addressed. I don't think according, there are standards in your bylaws for standards and qualifications for what is required of a resident manager. And in my view, in my view, it has not been adequately addressed. Secondly. We'll get you, Mr. Linesdale, when he's finished. Yep, go ahead, Mr. Rosnoy. Doesn't this deck expand the footprint of the building beyond what it needs to be for expanding and non-conforming footprint? Doesn't this go beyond what a special permit and possibly award? I'm not sure about how the footprint of the building was and what the status of this building was regarding its non-conforming status. But I'd like to hear an answer to that one. In closing, I'll just say, this is not site plan review. This applicant does not have the ability to put in three living units in previous garage as of right. You have great discretion in determining how to handle this particular parcel. And as neighbors, we are asking you to exercise that discretion. And if anything, ask the applicant to come back with a more modest proposal with fewer parking places and with fewer tenants. Thank you for your work. Thank you. Any other comments? I'd like to hear what the response was about the resident manager. I think somebody had some... Mr. Linesdale, we'll speak to it but we wanna get public comments and then there's the opportunity for us and for the applicant to respond to the public comments. I think there's Bruce. Bruce, yep. One second, let me... Okay, one second, okay. Bruce, can you... Please identify yourself. Can you hear me now? Yes. Yes. Bruce Carson, 8 Strong Street. I would just like to echo what my neighbors have said that I do appreciate the efforts that the Mendelssohn's have made in improving the existing house but I do think this proposal for another apartment is too much. For all the reasons people have said, too much traffic, too much noise. I would urge the board to ask them to come back with something more modest. And thank you for your good work that you're doing and thank you very much. And then we have Susan. Hold on a second and let me find... Oh, wait, hold on. I saw her. Yeah, there she is. Susan, can you state your name and your address? Can I cross a bit? Hold on a second. I'll mute. Sorry. Susan? You're... Susan Rosina, you're muted. You have some mute, there you go. Okay, now I've unmuted. Okay, okay, ready to go? Yes. Susan Rosnoy at 11 Strong Street. I've lived on this street longer than my neighbors have and I have experienced significant drainage from that Western elevation. Everybody's cellars are wet and this is only gonna increase the problem with drainage unless it's mitigated. And so I echo all of the concerns that my neighbors have had and we really do feel like this should be reduced in size. It's just too much for this small lot. It's a lot that's smaller than required now and it's just going to make this whole corner more congested, especially with the parking and traffic and the people coming and going. So I hope you will, oh, especially, especially do a landscape plan to require that because what you're calling arborvite are not arborvite, they're hemlocks. And although that's an evergreen tree, I think you should be able to identify what is being discussed. So you absolutely have to have a landscape plan. Thank you very much for your work. Thank you. Any other members of the public that wish to comment on this application? Mr. Langsdale, you had a comment you wanted to make in response then we'll ask the applicant if he has anything he wants directly to respond before we move on. Go ahead. Yeah, I think it's important that the butters understand that while we haven't addressed certain things that we're not done yet, we haven't addressed the management plan, we haven't addressed the lease, we haven't addressed the thing about the on-site manager, all of that is to yet to be addressed. So not to worry, stay watching and listening that's our job, we know how to do it and we're going to do it. Thank you. Mr. Mendelson, do you wish to respond to anything of the public comments? Any other comments? Okay. One second, Richard wants to say something again. Richard, can you state your name and your address again for the record? Right, Richard Rosnoy coming back again. Thanks very much for that clarification. From my experience when we had Planning Board public hearings we dealt with all of the issues and then we ended the public comment period. So I had the impression all public comments and all of your deliberations were going to be completed. Let me just ask, are you considering that you're going to continue this hearing and address those other issues and management plan and the other points that were mentioned further? Thank you, Mr. Lancel, for clarifying that. The hearing is still open. Whether we continue this to another time has yet to be considered. So there's no answer to that at this moment. So are there further questions from the Board for the applicant? Okay, now's the time. Let's go to the manager. Management plan is the first thing. Go ahead. Yes, Mr. Lancel, that's right. I was just going to say we should go over the management plan. You have the trash pickup you've identified who's going to do that. I think you have verbally said that you want to put additional screening in but I don't see it on the plan that you've provided us. That there's, I think you need to put more specificity about where you're the screening that you would have around the trash. The trash? Yeah, we did have that on the application. Fencing match, can I speak now? Or is that sure? Yes. Yeah, fencing matching the existing and the porch will be installed in front of the trash to conceal them from the street. And we'll have USA trash pick up the trash. And on our management plan, we do have that we are the number to reach our business is on there. And should I go through line by line on the management plan? Yes, that would be valuable. So I'll just go down the application. Well, if you can fill it in, just don't read that. I mean, do what you, you should do what you think is most advantageous to you, but you don't have to just read the management plan. You can describe it to us. Okay. So the lighting, that's the night sky compliant lights that we had. And we did discuss taking the one off of the farmhouse, which I think was a good idea to put that on a, on a post. And I am committed to, you know, putting the, building a fence, adding that as one of the conditions to build that fence on those East parking spaces. There's three parking spaces that may be offensive to our, to the larges. And so I would be happy to do that. So the lighting, discuss the signage. The landscape maintenance. Landscape maintenance. Yeah, so I would be doing all the landscape maintenance, mowing, making sure it's no greater than three inches. I do, I do take pride in keeping night of property in good shape. You know, I mean, I even sweep the street in front of, in front of the curb in front of it. And it seems like a lot of, you know, a lot of the comments are, are about the resident manager and contacting us. And I just want to again say that I am very happy to give all my neighbors my direct number. Like I don't, I don't want any problems. And we are selective with our tenants. I mean, as a matter of fact, you know, we, we culture like this mutual respect with all our tenants. And I want to continue that. And so, you know, we would, we would play. My word is everything. I mean, I am committed to this. I don't want any problems. I want to select good tenants. And make sure that we're not having issues. And if there is then 24 seven, call me, I will be on it. You know, I mean, that's Jen. She, she knows like I'm, I don't let anything sit. So. So do you have responsibilities laid out in your, do you have an agreement with the resident manager what the responsibilities are? I did put that in the lease. So this is what I have written in the lease. I'm looking for it. And I just, I, I didn't see a lot in the zoning bylaw about the resident manager. As a matter of fact, I think it's like one, it's like one paragraph. It doesn't go into a lot of detail, but I have the onsite manager that landlord here by designates so-and-so as the onsite manager was also attended under the lease. As the onsite manager, the person agrees to serve as the point of contact for the landlord bringing to his immediate attention any tenant conduct or maintenance issues that may arise at the property to ensure compliance with this lease. So, you know, our goal would be to have a long-term, long-term tenants in this unit and, you know, have that consistency that everybody knows who the onsite manager is. Everybody knows my number, you know, and one way or the other, we're gonna get, we're gonna solve any, you know, any problems. And also our, you know, tenant or lease specifies that all the conditions that are now in place because of the rental permit system in Amherst, which I think has done a lot for our town in controlling the parties and a lot of this stuff. And also we have in our lease that only 12 people can be onsite at the property at any given time. So we have that. I also heard comments about the parking. So people come to visit. Well, that would be strictly enforced. And I think there's a lot of parking right across the street, UMass, that we've heard from people associated with the university that, you know, I've said that parking is available over there. And so I would, I'm sensitive to that information about, you know, you don't want people parking on the sidewalks and all that. And the parking that's existing now is so close to the parking lot or so close to the sidewalk. And the fact that somebody has got to turn their cranked their neck around to see like if there's somebody behind my car, you know, I want to eliminate that situation. I don't want to have that parking there. And I do think that having the parking area would make this a safer property by allowing people to back up and pull out forward. And I will like talk, you know, I will definitely make sure the tenants are aware of our expectations with that. Is your business, are you saying that your business is property management? And so you are the professional property manager in this case, is that what you're saying? Yes, I am a licensed construction supervisor. I have my home improvement contractor license. I have many customers I do home improvement projects for routinely. I also have customers that are landlords themselves and they contract with me to do strictly the maintenance end of it. And that's what I really enjoy doing most. And yeah, so I feel like we have, you've got two of us here that are really, you know, involved. And it's not like we're handing this over to somebody else. And this is our baby, you know? And we want to get, you know, work with everybody to make sure that it's, everybody's happy with it. All right, any other questions from the panel and the board members? Yes, Mr. Meadows. It seems as though a large part of the comments that we're getting are in relationship to the number of tenets that are intended and the amount of parking that is expected there. If, as was suggested by the butters, a more modest proposal was to come back where the space was primarily teneted by a resident, separate resident manager, the number of parking spaces reduced down to just those spaces that are facing to the West towards East Pleasant Street. And a complete landscape plan was developed to encompass that and any problems that might occur with runoff might then resolve a good number of the issues that have been brought up. I think you heard Mr. Meadows concerned. Any response from Mr. Mendelson? Well, we feel, we do feel like the, I mean, the parking, having three people in this unit and the expectation of having three cars is reasonable. And we have, we followed what the zoning law provides for. I mean, we understand this is not absolute and there's a lot of discretion here with this. So we are open, but we strongly feel that the unit is, it's not a, it's not a ramshackle barn. It's a well solidly built structure. The existing farmhouse, I would argue like there, that's 900 square feet and this is 900 square feet. And this has a modern foundation with, you know, reinforced concrete, extremely well-built solid that has not moved since, you know, it's square. It's, and I feel like it makes a great unit. I'm kind of surprised that other people don't have my vision. I see it as being an attractive, quite essential New England Cape looking thing with the clabbered siding and I would make it nice and make a nice green, green grass in the front. But I think I've run off some, I'm some of the other issues that are not just the appearance but the other issues such as runoff, the parking and others are what people are expressed in concern about and what some of the board members have expressed concern about. Mr. Langsdale. The garage you have down as 916 square feet. 916 square feet. You have the house at 758 square feet. Does the 916 include the basement? And- Sorry, go ahead. Does it include the basement is my question. No, I think what's that, that is, is actually the footprint is 758, but then you've got the second floor, the two bedrooms up there that bring it up to the making it the nine, nine change. Okay, because Mike, when I'm looking at the floor plans of both of the house and the garage as it's proposed and in the house, you have a living dining area of 382 square feet, a kitchen of 183, a bathroom is 64, a laundry is 61, a bedroom of 195. And on the second floor, you have two bedrooms, one's 232 square feet, the other one's 233 square feet plus closets. In the proposed floor plan, which you say is 916 square feet on one floor, you have a great room of 432 square feet and each of the three bedrooms are 85 square feet and the bathroom is 83 square feet. These proposed bedrooms in the garage, I mean, 85 square feet is, as opposed to the ones in the house, which are all at 200 or over square feet. Why are you to me cramming three bedrooms which each are 85 square feet into this small garage? And it brings up, I think the question of, if you have a site manager, where do they sleep? With whom do they bunk? And are these two different houses than to be rented by the room or by the house? Yeah, it just seems that with the discussion of the size of the property, the size of the parking area and the size of the garage, which is one floor with three bedrooms is, to me, it's, I think it's like reaching for too much. Three bedrooms at 85 square feet is questionable to me. Can you talk to why you're gonna put three tiny, tiny bedrooms into this garage? Why are you going for three? Why not one? Because I feel like I can, it's safe. There's egress there, there's windows that would be compliant with the building code these, this meets residential building code. You have a closet and I think it's nice. A lot of people tend towards, are tending towards smaller dwellings now. And these are dorm rooms. I feel like I can make this nice. And I, you know, I appreciate your comments, but I feel like it's, it's reasonable. And it's, it's compliant with, it will be compliant with code, building code. And I think we're, I'm, we're picking up some concerns in the part of both board members and others about the project. And I see some things myself that I would like to have more information on before I vote on this, such as, I'd like to know more about the drainage and the landscaping plan, the ability to not affect your neighbors. I'd like to know a little bit more about some of this other, some other aspects of this before we, before we vote on it. That's, I'm expressing my opinion here and the other board members may have a different feeling. But I, I'm, I feel like we should, there's some work that can be done that may be, make this a more attractive and more possible application. But certainly the drainage runoff and the parking areas is something that, that I'd like to see some more information on before, but I, and I suspect some of my other board members feel the same. So I would encourage, you know, I would encourage you if you're, if you're interested and I wouldn't want to speak for everybody. So leave this up as my fellow board members to speak, but I would encourage you to maybe look at at least going back and getting some more information on the, on the drainage and the parking. I would also, and what you can do with landscaping to mitigate that because you are, you have quite a large hard escape that you're adding. And there will be a runoff there. And that can be determined by having less parking spaces, you'll have less runoff that maybe something you want to look at and whether you have rain gardens or some kind of collection of the, of the water. So you don't have increased runoff to the neighbors would be important. I don't, that's one concern that I have lights or another concern. I don't want to make sure that that, that they are the downcast and that they're not spraying into the neighbor's property. And we should probably have a little bit more information on that before we go forward as well. Any other board members have comments. At this point. Yeah, I think they need to come back with a. Specs on the fence. That they're proposing. And I would say that given. If, if we're to go ahead with the parking area, as it is, that fence is not just for those three little, those three parking spaces, it needs to, needs to extend beyond that. So that as cars come down and swing in the, the lights are going to go beyond those three parking spaces. So I think that has to be, you need specs and we need to have a, we need to have a, we need to have a, we need to have a, we need to have a photograph or a, something along the lines to show us what it is you're proposing. I think you need to look at the lighting. I think the flood lights are. Given the proximity to the other, the other, uh, butters. I think flood lights are not a good choice. They're flood lights. Um, I think that the thing about the, the manager. That needs to be really thought out because I, I tend to believe that if you have three bedrooms in each dwelling and there are three different. Unrelated individuals. I think to put the manager in one of those three bedrooms. Um, And in one of those houses, um, if they're all, if they're all students, I don't know how you're going to, uh, get a responsible person who's going to stay there more than seven or eight months, nine months, whatever the school year is. Um, and I think that's a problem in terms of managing the property. Um, I, I, I would like to see, given, given the garage, the size of the garage, I would like to see, um, I would like to see, um, I would like to see, um, something a different kind of layout with fewer, uh, uh, bedrooms. Um, 85 square feet is. Really tiny. Um, Yeah. Okay. So I, my, I would encourage. That we. I would encourage you to consider, um, I would encourage you to consider this. Um, I would encourage you to consider this. Um, I would like to get comments from the other board members if they're comfortable with that, but I would suggest that we suspend this, allow you to come back with some other, uh, some further plans, work with the town in terms of some, what it could be expected. Um, at least from a resident manager's perspective and also from the drainage and parking. Um, I would encourage you to consider this. Um, and lights and come back with something that may. Reduce the amount of concern that we have in the center of the, the butters have Mr. Maxfield. Yeah, I definitely like to see, um, I'd like to see some changes that the, uh, the butters can definitely get on board with there where my, my typical inclination is anyone comes to a board, um, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, if you want to build a seven foot fence at the, um, On your property, uh, you got to come to us. It's not by right, but if your neighbors don't have a problem with it, you don't have a problem with it. Great. You got a seven foot fence. If you're a butters, immediate butters have objections to it. I do have to take those into serious consideration and it, it sounds like from what I'm hearing, uh, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, the drainage of the parking is definitely something that would have to be looked at. Um, And I'm not entirely sure if, if the idea of having three bedrooms in there. Uh, is, is a no go for the butters as well. So I definitely would like to see some consideration, uh, in a way that this can make this more palatable. The immediate butters and, uh, the neighbors in the area. Mr. Meadows. And, and add that I think a, uh, a complete landscaping plan for the entire property is, is necessary in addition. To the other considerations that have been brought forward. All right. Um, seems like we have a consensus. To, um, suspend this for the time being. Or continue. I always use, I use the wrong word every time. I will get this right. We're going to continue this. Um, Marine, do we have to continue to a date certain or yeah, we do. Don't we are, or we have to restart the whole thing. So we, um, I think we probably can't continue this until sometime at the end of November, at the end of October. Or what's, what's our schedule like. So the next available. Uh, meeting date would be November 12th. Yeah. Um, I don't have time to work on those, those suggestions. Um, and. Come back with something that may be more, I mean, may have more support of the board. And so I'd encourage you to do. Um, so I move that we continue. The public hearing on this until November. 12th. Correct. If the applicants agreeable to that. Yeah. Um, my only concern is getting, um, I don't know. Um, I don't know. You know, a landscape plan. Ready and that, uh, I don't know. I, why don't we set that as a date and I'll, I'll get working on this stuff and. And then I will keep in communication. You know, let Maureen. And if you can't make it, let us know and we'll, we'll continue it to a different, to a later date. Okay. All right. The applicant agrees. Mr. Maxfield. I second your motion. Okay. All in favor roll call vote. I vote aye. Mr. Meadows. Hi. Ms. Parks. Hi. Mr. Maxfield. Hi. Mr. Langsdale. Hi. Motion is unanimous. Um, we'll see you back here in November. Good luck. Uh, the next order of business is, um, Um, ZBA FY 2021 dash zero four. Greg Stutzman request a special permit to allow a supplemental detached dwelling. Unit as an accessory to a one family detached dwelling under sections 5.0111. And 10.38 of the zoning bylaw located at 13, 25 Southeast street map 23 D parcel 12. Outline residents district. Um, On this manner, um, Ms. Waldman alternative ultimate member, Ms. Waldman will serve on the panel. Are there any disclosures? As in the first case, I was unable to attend the site visit with the other board members, but I visited the property of myself yesterday. Um, Is there somebody who would like to summarize what the, uh, the. Board members saw on the site visit. I can go through me and mine. And then you can add. Um, I'm going to go through the existing house. We walked up through the back through the, the, um, Garden and the rock way up to the building site. We explore the trees that would be taken down. We marked off generally. The, the, um, the site of the house and of the, and the boundaries of the garage. We talked about the trees that were going to be removed from the front, the arborbites and removed along to the side. Um, and then we looked at the, the, um, the, the, the, um, for the neighbor of budding the property. We also talked about a, a, um, a fence. I think the fence that runs from the street back along the property line. Um, We looked at, um, The, um, we discussed the floor plan. Um, and the, the sighting of the garage versus the, and the roofline of the garage versus the. The house, um, being used for solar. Um, was the house and the use for solar collection roof. Um, And we looked at the, um, I think it's Montpollack's drive, the road running alongside the property that does not have a sidewalk on it. I noticed that. Uh, that's, those are the things that we discussed. Uh, and on the site visit. Uh, but. Was there other items discussed by members of the board. Uh, at their visit that I did not mention. Here, judge, this is a share. Yes. I'm sorry, you got going and I didn't catch. Uh, the disclosure. I have a disclosure. My youngest son is friends with the knee butters. Uh, to the. West. Grandson. But I don't think it will affect my ability to be impartial. Thank you. Any other disclosures or additional comments on the site visit. Um, Um, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Any other comments in terms of submissions? We've received a special permit application, a management plan, a plan set. Um, Which includes a title sheet, a topographical plan, an existing site plan. Proposed site plan, a landscape plan. Um, Basement first floor and roof plans and exterior elevations, dwelling unit prepared by all these were prepared by child design. Um, 18th or September 12th. Um, and a garage exterior elevation. We've gotten a landscape narrative prepared by wellnessness. Wellness scapes design dated August 12th. A plan schedule prepared by them light fixtures, specification sheets. Um, we have a sample lease agreement. An addendum to the residential lease, a complaint response form. Specification sheet for proposed fence. An email correspondence from Greg Sussman to planner Marine Pollock. Uh, subject 1325 South East street additional materials. Staff submissions include project application reports. Of October 1st, the 29th and 25th, those was updated. The comments from the embers health inspector, the building inspector. And Edmund Smith. Comments from the town engineer, Jason Steele's data in September 24th and September 29th. I don't think we have any public comments. Uh, filed on this. Do we Maureen? Correct. Okay. That's what we have. Um, so. Who would like to present for the applicant? Nope. Mr. Judge. Oh, Mr. Reedy. Uh, so good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the board. Uh, Mr. Moore, Ms. Pollock. I'm Tom reading attorney with Bacon Wilson and Amherst here on behalf of the applicant Greg Stutzman. And his application for a special permit for a supplemental detached dwelling. Um, as an accessory used to a one family detached dwelling. At 1325 Southeast street in Amherst. With me this evening. The property owner and applicant Greg Stutzman. Um, I'm Greg Stutzman. Um, I'm Maria Chow from Chow design and then on the phone, we've got Tom Benjamin, who is our landscape architect. And so, you know, rarely am I afforded an opportunity where I'm able to present an application that is, I think straightforward and really fits into the zoning bylaw and the master plan, specifically relative to infill development. But you know, that's what we've got here. Um, it's an 800 square foot supplemental dwelling with one and a half bathrooms, and it's on a 33,000 square foot lot. Um, on Mount Pollock's drive in Southeast street. And I think you'll find this, if you walk the site, and I think as you'll hear that, that the design has really been informed by the landscape. And I, and I think there was. You'll see a lot of thought that, you know, Greg and Tom and Maria put into this. To make sure that it was located in a, in a place that made sense topographically preserved, the maximum number of mature trees. Sought to screen the, the westerly neighbor via the garage and also our varieties. And as you'll see a fence. Um, and really to fit into the existing terraced garden. So every time I look at it, I'm, I'm more and more impressed with it. And hopefully you'll be as well as you'll see. If you've read through the project application report, it satisfies all the requirements of the bylaw. Um, you don't have to worry about a resident manager here because he's going to be living there. It's Greg Stutzman. It's, this is one of the beauties of the supplemental dwelling is that the, the, it has to be owner occupied. And so, as long as I've been practicing in this town, owner occupancy is, is key because it really does provide. Um, it's ownership, but it also gives the person who probably cares the most about the property, the ability to control that property. And that's Greg. And he's going to be there. Um, he would be residing in the supplemental dwelling and he would be leasing that executive property. Um, he would be residing in the supplemental dwelling and he would be leasing that existing dwelling. It's a perfect setup because the new dwelling where he's going to be residing acts as the natural buffer to the neighbors in the existing dwelling is what's up on the roadway on southeast street. Um, I think you'll find that it's a pretty complete presentation with, with specifications and, um, you know, floor plan, topography, materials, et cetera. Um, so, um, I think it's a great way to, uh, stop us during it, ask us questions. We have, like I said, they've done a really good job of preparing, uh, thoughtfully for this. So with that, I'll, I'll turn it over to Maria to share her screen and walk you through the proposal. Hi everyone. Um, I'm Maria child architect working with Greg Stetsman and Tom Benjamin on, um, the design for this house. Um, I will share a screen now so I can walk you through. Okay. So, um, and thank you Tom for a really nice introduction that pretty much covered how we got to where we are. Um, this is a sheet. I think it was in your set. Um, you guys can see the screen. Okay. It's L 11. Maria, could you, uh, exhale the page thumbs to the left? Ah, sure. Thank you. I'll be bigger. Okay. So, um, as Tom described, we, we're going to be going to talk a little bit about this. Um, Tom Benjamin and I and Greg worked really hard to cite it in the, um, most appropriate place on this, um, large parcel and, um, Greg is, uh, going to be living here in this 800 square foot structure. There's a two car detached garage here, uh, exterior porch, exterior porch, and then a screen porch here. So, um, I'm going to be going to talk a little bit about this. Um, I'm going to talk a little bit about this. Um, from, um, Southeast street that this new structure was very much sort of secondary to the main house here. And so this is a view from Southeast street and you can, I actually couldn't even, there's so much vegetation on Greg's property already that there's actually, you can't even see the house back here actually, but I wanted to show something. So, you know, I'm going to talk a little bit about this, um, because usually when I design a, tend to put the long side of a building facing south to maximize natural light. And also if, um, an owner wants to use full of a text, you know, it's oriented properly. And so, um, I think someone had mentioned there be, we were planning that a full of a text would be on the garage roof and, um, the house roof actually slopes so that the high side is facing south. So there will be no full of a text on the house. And this is that little screen porch you can see. Um, you know, backed away a little bit more from this front set back, just so there's a little more sort of privacy for Greg. And like Tom Reedy mentioned, this garage is sort of a buffer between the neighbor and, and Greg's house. And this is that really large terrace garden, probably saw on the site visit. Um, and we wanted to make sure the deck and the porch didn't hover over too much. And this was as close as I could comfortably get it without it, but we had a lot of time. So, um, we had a lot of time to get it done. And so, um, I'm, I'm going to be recording the plants that Greg already has pretty well established there. And, um, and Tom will go through the landscape. So I will. Move on to the house. This is Tom's landscape plan, but I will talk about the architecture. So this is the first floor plan. Um, this is the attached garage. Do you come in? There's this sort of, um, a lot of space. Um, um, which opens into the living and kitchen dining space. That's all one very large space. Um, this connects to the screen porch, which also goes out to this back deck that has a really nice view to the north where it's like a thick forest and into the east is, um, the terrace gardens. Um, this is a hallway where there's a laundry closet. Um, this is the one bedroom with more closet space. Um, this is the one bathroom that we designed in a way where Greg was hoping that, you know, you could shut it off and it could be used when people are visiting or, you know, it, so that really we're just making one bathroom, one full bath, but, um, I suppose you could call it one and a half, but in a way it's, it's really one bath that has two sinks, one toilet, a tub and a shower. And that opens up onto another outdoor deck. That's very, um, you can purposely put the garage here to sort of keep this a private space and kind of shield the bedroom from the neighbors to the west. So, so everything was sort of placed with, you know, what's adjacent as far as the site views, the solar orientation, the neighbors, um, you know, keeping privacy to the east and west neighbors. Um, and as well as, uh, just trying to keep a very small modest footprint so that, um, you know, as far as economics, it's just a simple rectangle, a shed roof that's sloping toward the north on the house and toward the south on the garage, as you can see in the roof plan here. Um, this is the basement. It's going to remain unfinished. It's just for storage and it does walk out to the, um, north where you'll see later in Tom's plan, we've made it so that the, um, existing grade is peeled back just slightly enough to get, um, a small flat area here. And then these are the posts for the deck and screen parts above. Uh, garage is slap on grade. And these are posts for the, uh, the deck that's between the, the bedroom and the garage. And let's see. And these are the, I'll set that a little bit. These are the exterior elevations. This is the side facing south. Um, it's the front door. This is sort of where the living kitchen dining has a lot of, um, Southern light, but with this four foot overhang, it actually will let very little self light in on the summer. And then in the winter it'll hit this back wall pretty much. Um, this is that screen porch. So this is the face that's facing east. Yes. Uh, where Greg's current house is. Um, and there's that deck that sort of, uh, hovering over some of the gardens. Um, just the sort of back corner of this garden. This is the side facing north. Um, that was that walkout little space. I was talking about with the basement where we've peeled back just enough grade so that you can, um, have a flat area there. Uh, this is the garage. This is the bedroom. Um, this is the kitchen. That's the stair to the basement. That's to the kitchen. And this is the kitchen. And then this is that screen porch. And this is, um, cutting through this deck here so that you can see the, uh, West elevation. And this is not back deck. That's toward the north. Um, Let's see. I think that's it. Oh, wait, sorry. And then there's the garage just because they were cranked at two different angles. Um, So this is the garage. Um, And then another sheet so you can see all four sides. This is the side facing not Pollock's drive. And this is the side facing the. Yes, the dwelling in it. And then this is the side facing north. And this is a side facing west. So, um, That's the house in a nutshell. Uh, Let's see. Um, Unless that you want to talk, Tom, some more. Um, should we see if Tom Benjamin is available to go through. Landscape design. Yeah. If Tom's available, that'd be great. And then we can hop. If you've got those colored elevations, maybe we can show those and just point out some, uh, where the lighting is. Gotcha. Yes. Let me dig those up real quick. I. Tom Benjamin should be able to speak. Yeah. So, um, Um, If you want to share your screen and go through the landscape plan. Yeah. Tom Benjamin. Um, are you able to talk? I don't hear you yet. Maybe I allowed the wrong person. Hold on a second. Um, Uh, is Tom Benjamin's last four digits. If his phone number one, one, three, five. Yes. Okay. Uh, Tom. I don't see him on the list. There it is. I'll ask him to unmute. So he's, he's muted. I don't know why. Um, Hey, one second, folks. Unmute. Oh, we hear you. Can you hear me? Yes. Hi. This is Tom Benjamin from wellness scapes design landscape architect. Um, Thanks Tom. Thank you. Um, And to Maria child for the, um, Descriptions of the project. I'll just touch on the landscape. Um, Can you, can you all hear me okay? Yes. Right. I apologize. I'm, I'm traveling as, as I'm speaking. Uh, so starting on the Mount Pollack side, The south side of the house is primarily in lawn as is the case now. Um, we've tried to preserve as many trees as possible, Particularly to the southeast early side, Moving towards the, uh, Terrace garden of Mr. Stutzman. Um, And we are proposing to have some screening. Uh, tall, uh, Bed with tall shrubs, Possibly some small trees along the Mount Pollack's, Um, frontage. I believe that is shown on the plan. To, uh, Help buffer the street a little bit. And, um, moving, I'm going to go around from there. Uh, clockwise. So moving to the west will drain into a very west of the garage. That will capture, uh, The driveway and also from a downspout varies all of the Substantial plant schedule, Which provides just many options for places on the site, But particularly thinking about visually screen. To add some more shrubs there canopy trees, Then moving a little bit more easterly to the. North side of this tended for a long time and, uh, That will appreciate having some more water, Uh, its way, especially in the summer, like we've just had. Um, and then that brings us back around to the front of the house. I guess maybe I would suggest Mr. Chair while we've got Tom on the phone, Because everybody knows how finicky cell service can be sometimes. If there's any questions relative to the landscaping plan, I would just ask that maybe now we address those. You're muted, Mr. Judge. You're muted. Yep. Mr. Langsdale. Okay. Tom, the, uh, downspout on the. Uh, North East side of the house. That goes into the existing terrace garden. Yes. Is that above ground or underground? That would be, um, at grade. Basically would drain into, into grade. Um, there is the possibility. Um, you know, obviously in the field, there can be some adjustments that have to be made so that it's possible that it might, um, require just a little bit of a, like a piped extension just to get it over. Maybe another 10 feet into the garden, but that the intent is to have it run on the surface. And I believe we have the, we can make the grade there to for that to work. Yeah. I mean, I think that would only really need one to 2% to, um, send water in the direction that you need to go. Yeah. I understand the grade would only need to be one to 2%. But what would you be, since it's above ground, what would you be digging a trough to go into? There would be a very shallow swell, a very shallow, probably like a gravel swell. Gravel. Yeah. Yeah. You're moving, um, Tom, you're moving a lot of trees that are along Mont Pollock's drive. Can you talk about where those trees are going and the reason for it? Yes, those are, um, I just was anticipating that, you know, there'd be concern about screening the neighbor to the west in particular. Uh, so it seemed that they would serve a better purpose. Um, by being more clustered on the west and basically helping to thicken up the existing row of trees that's already on the west side, but adding, adding more with, um, seem to just help, uh, a deeper buffer. Mr. Langsville. As long as we're on that side, uh, when we, uh, walk the property, uh, the owner spoke about, uh, adding a fence there has, uh, I don't know if this is your purview, uh, but since we're there and we're talking about screening, um, is there to be a fence? What kind of fence? Uh, we don't, as far as I know, we don't have any pictures about that or any information about that. Uh, what would that be? Uh, how high are you asking for? Uh, and what would it consist of? Um, I believe that we submitted, um, and I think it was mentioned in the, at the beginning of the hearing that we submitted, um, some, a spec sheet on a potential fence. Uh, and I'm going to let Maria jump in on this one. I believe you have that. Yes, I do. Let me, uh, share my screen again. So many screens. Okay. Um, this is the. Um, who illusions V 300 vinyl privacy fence. It comes in varying heights for five, six, eight. We're proposing to work with those owning by-law, what they allow, which is four foot within the front 25 foot setback and then six feet from that, uh, beyond. This is sort of, um, what one panel looks like between the posts. Yeah. Um, although, uh, late yesterday, Tom Benjamin said four screen blends in really nicely with, uh, the vegetation in our area. So it's a green. Um, and here is Hunter green in action. Um, So, uh, yeah, that's basically it's vinyl because, um, I think Greg had a concern that, you know, uh, Let me see. I don't know if I'm doing this right, but I'm going to jump between sharing screens to, uh, Okay. Here we go. Let me share back this screen. Is this the right one? Are you guys looking at the site plan now? Yes. Okay. So, um, this is the 65 foot length that, uh, of area that were, um, Mr. I can't remember the last name. Uh, the neighborhood to the West, um, put a stake and, um, Greg and in the neighbor agreed on this being sort of the, the end point and they'd go all the way to the front property line. And, um, so it would be, yeah, four feet for the front 25 and then six beyond. And then. Like Tom Benjamin was saying, there's going to be a lot more planting there. Um, Oh, and back to the point why it's the vinyl fencing is that, um, Greg had a concern that, you know, it's between this row of two sort of really dense trees. So basically brought if it was wood. So, um, so Tom Benjamin suggested a really good solution of, you know, um, a hardy material and making it green. So it just sort of disappears into the, um, sort of double row of trees there. Um, so, um, Mr. Chow, is that right on the property line or is it off? Off by two feet. Yeah. Cause there is an existing, uh, cluster of trees right now. And so we're going just to Greg's side on his property where we'll be putting the fence. Zoom in so they can see that two feet. It's to mention here and here and the problem line is so thick that it's hard to see, you know, where the first tick mark is, but the second one shows us, this is the fence, uh, line, the square dash square dash kind of symbol. So that's where the fence is. Um, I can go back to the landscape plan. If you have more questions for Tom Benjamin about the landscape. Oops. This is right. There we go. Yeah. If you have more landscape questions while we have Tom. I just want to echo what Maria said about the fence. I think, um, that it's a good choice for durability. Um, and aesthetics. Um, I think it works. Any other questions regarding the land state plan. Before we lose the person on the phone, Tom on the phone. Mr. Rudy, is there anything else that you want him to present on the application? Yeah. Maria, I don't know if you want to get the colored elevations. If you, if you have them. Um, I just think they're very impressive and really give a sense of the kind of the, the feel. Yeah. And if not, I can probably share my screen and bring them up. Yeah. Do you want to do that? I have so many emails. Yeah. I've got it. All right. I'll try. Can you see a screen? Yes. Yeah. So, um, Is it the right one? It is. Yay. Yep. Um, so you can say I've tried to show how, um, you know, on the north side and all the elevations, there's a, it's, it's like a forest in the back. And then, um, you know, there's a lot of outdoor living for this dwelling in it because it's only an 800 square feet. We, Greg and I designed a lot of outdoor decks, the screen porch so that, you know, expands the living space and it's a really beautifully wooded site. So we're trying to take advantage of that. Um, the materials for the exterior cladding is all wood. Um, two different tones, as you can see. Um, And, uh, And actually I forgot to mention lighting. Um, The, uh, south elevation shows the, um, Lights in the root, uh, the soffits. There's, um, Yeah, exactly. Right there. So yeah, those are all downcast and they actually have this little adjustable gimbal trim, which points it directly down. Um, And in fact, we can angle it even more. So it sort of just washes the front face, but that's actually just really low level general lighting. There is a little light right by the, Um, Um, Um, Um, I think exactly right there by the front door that actually lights the space. Um, and by every front door, there's that same fixture and it is dark sky compliant. Um, I think there's one by the door on the west one on the north. Um, Yep. In the base by the basement door and, um, Uh, And the only other lighting I think is also, um, um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, I think there are three or four downlights. The same ones as on the south face. And I think they're also on the east side of the garage. Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, are also on the east side of the garage so that you know that deck between the house has sort of a light wash of light from above. Yeah. Perfect. Are these, Ms. Chow, are these the colors that you're intending to use? As close as I could get it with a computer, the wood stain is gonna be a more natural tone and then the black is this really cool Japanese technique where they lightly char the wood and it's a technique that's been used for hundreds of years in Japan and it's catching on on the north west coast northwest a lot and basically it's just slightly charred wood that protects the wood so that you install it and then you don't do anything to it for you know decades because it's it's basically putting a protective coat onto it as well as adding that color so yeah it's a really interesting material. Alright. Mr. Langsdale. Do you speak to the the soffits lights on the house and the garage? Specifically what's the pitch of the roof and what is the fucking shit? I'm sorry. The the soffit lights are made to be under roofs or ceilings but at the height that many of these are there's it's it's a it's a wash of light rather than a directed light. The lights you have at the doors are all dark sky compliant and very downcast and they light the area for which they are intended but the soffit lights there are one two three four five six seven eight eight on the house at least I don't know if there are any on the east side I can't tell that and then on the garage you have them as well and are those also then the question is are they on from just to dawn or okay so I can answer now or yeah okay so the roof slope is 4 and 12 it's a pretty shallow slope and I'll share my screen really quick oh sorry can I share a screen Tom? Sure okay okay so yes the oops these are the ones by all the doors providing the actual sort of you know safety light level lights for safety the ones on the soffit you can see they're adjustable and they're slightly recessed and they have at that height that I'm proposing which is around 16 feet they're only like two foot handles at the center beam they're very very minimal just enough for sort of ambient light and they would be switched they would not be like motion detector you know not like floodlights they're literally just for when Greg you know maybe if he has guests come over they can see the house you know when they're driving up or something or you can turn them on if he's going out to the garage there really just general ambient light and they're pointed there I chose a trend specifically to work with sloped roofs and and yeah they're they're about at the 16 foot mark and they will not trespass beyond they even showed one with like a 30 foot diameter and that was only point two foot candle so it's it won't go beyond their front yard at all they'll just be sort of on the surface of the house but the given the pitch of the roof and the angle that it shows that the lights can attain they're not going to be are they they're straight down they're straight down yeah straight down yeah you have a gimbal in them is it are they gimbal yes that's exactly what I call a gimbal switchable trim and they are designed for sloped roofs so that you can point them I think the angle is up to 20 degrees and you know 112 roof is I think it's like 18 so it's pretty much exactly you know it goes we can even crank it a little further to wash the walls but yeah it's it's adjustable and designed for this this specific purpose well it's designed to go under under under ceilings and like porch thing but not for 18 degree slope of a roof at 16 to 18 feet off the ground I'm just concerned that you've got a lot of these lights actually doing what they're not designed to do and that it's a spread of light with that number of them it's a spread of light that is not on the house I mean like the the on the front elevation of the house the top of the roof is 21 point 21 and a half feet so given that the roof is maybe I don't know let's even say 18 inches you're still you're well above 16 feet for those especially for those across the front so I'm concerned that what you're doing is lighting the yard and that if you're if we're concerned about the butters especially the man to the what to the West who's made objection what is what is necessary about these lights as opposed to their function or what is their function as beyond beyond aesthetics there what is their function beyond aesthetics so they would not be lighting the yard they would be either washing the space directly below or the face of the house and about 20 feet across the front of the house 20 feet to the to the ground level I mean double looking at right here it says 25 21.5 feet from the grade level to the top of the roof and the roof isn't the roof isn't that thick so those lights are gonna be at I mean at generous we're talking 20 feet off the ground so they're not made to light straight down for 20 feet that's so there's not a focus that they have that will that will transmit over 20 feet they'll spread and they spread the light and now you and you've got five of them five of them across the front plus the others on the on the sides I'm concerned about the the pollution of these lights and are you I mean are you concerned about there's two different things there's light trespass on to an adjacent property which these won't do or there's the ability of folks who are offsite to look on to the site and see the light which certainly that will happen here which I think happens with all lights and you know if you drive down the street and somebody has their bedroom light on you can see somebody has their bedroom bedroom light on so I mean yes the lights will exist but they're they're not going to trespass they do not leave the property from what I heard from Maria it sounds like they could be angled to wash the house to ensure that they're not flooding out onto the grass and and potentially it's a condition that you say they cannot illuminate the grass they must either be straight down or tilted back towards the house for accent lighting I suppose and that's that's what it is it's accent lighting it's not even gonna reach the grass as you pointed I just measured it's 19 foot six from the soffit to the grade and there is no chance it would trespass to a neighbor of course you would see it from the street Mount Pollux because like Tom Rick was saying you know you see lights and then okay that stated that stating the obvious and that's not what I'm talking about because obviously you go by anybody's house they have a light on inside you see the light that's not what I'm talking about I'm talking about their function which is is it just aesthetic and if it's just aesthetic is it something that is possibly trespassing on the night sky we're talking it's not just about whether it interferes with the neighbors it's about the night sky that's what dark sky compliant lights are all about okay so my question is these the function of these lights are to be met are they're made to be under roof lines ceilings but not on an 18 degree tilted roof at nineteen point six and I question whether the the the the tilting of these lights will shine on the house and not spread at nineteen point six feet off the ground it's like a floodlight it becomes like a floodlight because it you have you lose any ability to focus them so that height is there a way to know how much the how big a circle of light is and how and how intense that light is 20 feet away I went off of that foot candle diagram and it was only one foot candle at 16 feet below the light and then it was point two for candles at a 40 foot sorry not a 16 diameter and then that 40 foot diameter it was only point two so it's not a floodlight the angled gimbal trim is designed specifically for slope surfaces so that you can then point the light straight down it is accent lighting it will serve a purpose over the deck between the house and the garage where it is sort of a light for that space when it's occupied the south face it's for the walkway between the garage to the house so that that has some more ambient light for safety because the light at the door is really just lighting up the stoop area so it yes it's an accent light but it's also serving a purpose for the safety of people walking between the structures so I I hear what you're saying I can't agree with a hundred percent of it but I definitely you know know your concern and I'm all about dark sky can play I've done a lot of research on it in my past and this there is just no chance that this is a floodlight it's just too low a level of foot candles so in terms of purpose if you leave the garage the only way you can leave the garage to go into the front door is to at night is to be lit by those there's not you can't go out the back of the garage any other way so arguably to get from the garage to the front of the house you at night you this would light your way sure yes yeah all right but they can be tilted to just wash the house right and have very little very little yes they could be tilted a little more to wash the house and to not spread onto the beyond the walkway or much beyond the walkway at least they'd be very low candle power yes correct yep so mr. Langsdale should we be looking at a condition that has the lights trying to wash the house and minimum some way minimizing the the spread beyond the walkway and into the yard yeah I also I also have to say that the the explanation that these lights at the heights that they are granted they're they're they're graded from a lower to the nineteen points nineteen six that that they are needed to light the way from the garage to the house there are many ways to do that without having this kind of light this high in the air on an angle on a slanted route on a very slanted roof I just I would you know personally I would like to see some kind of a rethinking of this I understand that architecturally and design-wise it's desired and thought to be a good idea my concern is about the sky it's about the lighting and it's about putting lights that are not meant to be almost 20 feet in the air 20 feet in the air so it's a it's a concern for me it's a real concern and and I other than maybe or probably or we could do this or they're gonna tilt I don't know I haven't heard anything about what this light's gonna do to the area to the to the night sky I don't know I just like to see more to point a phrase all right any of you have other stuff you want to present time should we start with questions Mr. really or we start with questions yeah I guess I what I would just say is as far as the the management goes you know Greg Stutzman is the one on the complaint response plan he will be living in this dwelling he's gonna stodged landscaping is gonna be doing the snow plowing and then we also have I think you saw maybe the floor plans that the trash and recycling is gonna be in the garage and those are just a couple of things just to kind of round out the the management of the property so I think with that we've touched on everything maybe I'll mention parking because it was in a project application report there were there are two parking spaces in the garage and then also two parking spaces surface parking spaces on the driveway and I think that's where the arbor varieties and the fence all help with that screening kind of similar to the resolution from the previous hearing and those concerns so I think Greg was you know with his westerly a butter had some forethought there and proposed that fencing so so I did have a question about the parking we've got four parking spaces for for this unit the dwelling and only three people can live there a maximum of three but it's a one bedroom unit and so I'm wondering how many people are anticipated to be living there and why do we have four and why there's a need for that many parking spaces so I could actually speak to that it's okay what's that right Greg to that yes mr. identify yourself Greg Stutzman here thanks for hearing us tonight really appreciate it so a couple notes on the parking it is envisioned as kind of a dual purpose Maria had the good sense to recommend there'd be a way to turn cars around so it serves that purpose it also serves for guest parking and we didn't include snow management on our plan by envision one of those spots being the location for excess snow if needed and something we hadn't talked about was kind of the conditions on the street with the on-street parking in our neighborhood just driving over here tonight we had probably nine out-of-state vehicles parking on the street people like to walk up to Mount Pollock it's pretty common some of our neighbors use on-street parking when they don't have room in their driveway and I think it we really beneficial that we have sufficient space when we do have some visitors or we do have snow on the ground that we're parking on our property and not on the street and the other you know is there a basement to the important what will that be used for again that's not finished and it's just gonna be for storage correct is that correct that's correct are there other questions for the applicant for any questions any questions we're it's wide open miss parks so I guess I'm just wondering about the other the house that will be leased and I'm wondering I don't know how many bedrooms are in there are is there a maximum number of people who you'd be leasing to yeah I can speak to that so it's technically a five bedroom house but we wouldn't be renting to more than four unrelated persons and my guess would be we actually end up with a smaller group I'm pretty familiar with the rental market and with all the health issues going on right now tends to be smaller groups or family groups instead of unrelated persons looking for housing so that's our plan for it I have experienced with management having managed and leased properties over the year so I look forward to being on site there and being the go-to person both for my neighbors and for the tenants and and there's parking on that site as well there's yes number of spots there okay there's at least four spots in the driveway and two garage spaces for the main house okay mr. Maxfield you have a question no I guess not I'd like to raise your hand other questions I think you've answered most of mine and I've got so many pieces of paper in front of me I've got to find my notes so is anybody else to have a question we can we can stand silence for just a few minutes while we look at look through our notes so you're limited this is limited to 800 square feet of development which is the legal limit for the supplemental detached dwellings that correct we don't count the basement in that square footage right right we don't count the garage correct okay and in the the applicant tends to own up to occupy the the supplemental dwelling unit and there's one person living intended for one person to live in that unit intended for two no more than three no more than three yeah more than three can I ask a question yes it sparks so it occurs to me that it was it's two building lots and you've chosen to call one of them a supplemental building and I'm just wondering in the future would it be possible to divide that and sell those as separate lots that's one building lot actually it doesn't have sufficient building area for two lots it's I think around 70 or 80,000 square feet no it's less than that it's in the high 30s around 38 you've got 30,000 in the auto zoning district for a building lot you need 30,000 square feet Greg for this whole lot has about 33,000 square feet so that's that's the issue here is that while he's got sufficient frontage he doesn't have sufficient lot area but that's where the supplemental dwelling piece comes in so it can't be divided and sold is okay I'll just say that for to me a supplemental building is attached to the other building and so I'm looking at that idea that's different than what I'm used to so that they that the building that you're building will always have to be attached to the other house correct okay unless there's something by law changes but under this zoning bylaw this is this is exactly what it is it'll always be on this property attached to that single family home and with one of the two being owner-occupied okay and it has to be owner-occupied because it's supplemental correct okay you couldn't have four unrelated people in each building that would be like a non-owner-occupied duplex but then even under your bylaw there has to be like some connectivity between the two so this would be effectively like where we started in your question a separate building lot but it doesn't meet the requirements so that's why the only way to do this it's I'll use the word parasitic but I don't think that's exactly the idea I want to conjure but that's what it is it just occurs to me that it's in the future if it gets sold it's an unusual property it's a package deal yes mr. max Hill oh yeah it's a little bit history on that when you on Mr. Sussman when you when you purchased this property they were two separate lots and then you merge them into one lot of my was I correct about that yeah I purchased the main lot in 2010 and the additional lot I believe in 2012 and then there was a A&R done in 2017 which combined them into one parcel which would happen eventually by default with them being in the same ownership and then I guess the follow-up on that so that second parcel it never had enough space to be developed on that parcel that I purchased was never large enough to be developed or interesting okay this part and will it have the same address as the other house or is that an additional number that's a good question I think that's a conversation with the town where we when we apply for a building permit and Tom correct me if I'm wrong that issue would be addressed and they'd want to a number of signs of that I would say that as far as mail delivery that all the mailboxes for Mount Pollock circle are currently essentially on my property near the main house or in the public way immediately next to it so folks up on that cul-de-sac are already used to walking down to the mailboxes other questions for the applicant from board members alright let's open it up to public comment if there's anybody in the public that wishes to comment at this time please indicate your raise hand function and identify yourself Richard I believe is raising his hand Richard yes thank you Richard Rosnoy from 11 Strong Street in Amherst and I just want to go on record as supporting Mr. Sussman's project I know what he's seeking to do I know the kind of work that he does and I know what Maria Chow does in architecture and it's a very worthy project I think I leave I leave the question of lighting to you but as as it's proposed they don't bother me so I don't know how you how you want to handle that secondly I want to thank you for this fine meeting you've spent a lot of time on things and it's been much more pleasurable watching you then listening to the news tonight so thank you I think you're damning us with freight praise on that one but thank you anyway next we have Joyce Duncan Joyce please identify yourself Joyce Joyce are you there I don't hear anybody all right any other comments we have nobody else that's raising their hand oh she Joyce's raised her hand again all right you've muted yourself there okay Joyce we'll try it one more time try it again no we don't hear anybody I don't hear a comment okay Joyce all right okay so next we have Michael Morgan I'm here with my wife and Rothschild and this has been an interesting few hours you folks work really really hard it's very impressive to watch I know that Sam and Joyce next door did want to speak so I hope they can get through that a lot of things they wanted to say we just moved here very very recently after 37 years in Northamers so we're not long-term neighbors but I do have a couple of questions about this one is I don't understand why he needs to come to the board what he's looking for permission to do that wouldn't just be under normal zoning issues I just don't understand why he has to get permission for this another question is I don't understand why the driveway has to be so close to Sam Gladstone's property it's like four feet away or very very very close to why he has to be so far to the west why it can't be a little bit more to the east why it has to be so close to it I was very interested in the discussion of the lights I hadn't even thought about but those I got the impression I could be completely wrong that those lights are going to be on all night all the time or just when someone is going in or out because if they're on all the time that's our bedroom and the house next to Gladstone's where the lights would be shining that was news to me and very very interesting and concerning yeah and concerning and I was also really struck about the notion of there being nine cars out in the street which I don't see once in a while I see one car very rarely too and just finally I'll ask no just for your information my mailbox is in front of my house on my politics drive not out on southeast but I'd like to hear more about these questions and especially I do hope you get to hear from the Gladstone's and Joyce Duncan oh I just want to back that up we so we are identify yourself please Rothschild and I live with Michael Morgan and we we are not abutting we are so but we are on that we abut the abutters so we about Sam Gladstone and Joyce Duncan they are they live next but we would be seeing we be seeing the proposed construction from our bedroom right so this is a small cul-de-sac and we're the only neighbors except for the Gladstone's and except for Sam Gladstone and Joyce Duncan um so yeah we're wondering why the drive proposed driveway is so close to salmon Joyce's house I mean it sounds like it that would be a problem with sound for them and privacy and I don't see why there's additional turnaround needed we back into our quiet cul-de-sac with no traffic on it from our house I don't know why you would need to turn around additional guest parking well that's on the street there's not my part on the driveway or in the driveway there's not nine cars there's at the most two cars people do not seem to park here go up Mount Pollock's they they come on the Mount Pollock's thinking they're going to Mount Pollock's then can't find the parking lot and leave so I'm I see about two one or two cars a day parking here in their Sam's family the lights do really concern me and I really appreciate the discussion about it I don't understand from what Keith is saying it sounds like they're going to be on all night is that true I would like an answer to that no that's why it sounded clear and why are they not sensor lights motion lights motion sensor lights on so that Greg can walk to his car or garage whatever so I I'm really concerned about the light I love to go out the moon is is toward the east and that certainly affect the night sky I really really appreciate the discussion of that I so appreciate that thank you any other comments from the public could you try okay we have Joyce Duncan Joyce you're muted Michael I'm muting you now okay who's next I said Joyce can you you can go now Joyce you should be able to speak now choice I wonder if your microphone in your computer isn't working because you're you're a lot you're unmuted so we should be able to hear you but we can't you know what I'm gonna do hold on a second don't look at that okay Joyce this is what we're gonna do Joyce is something so it seems that Joyce your your laptop or computer is having issues so I suggest that you call this phone number listed here 3126266799 and when enter the webinar ID when prompted which is listed here 94463502818 and then once you get in you're gonna press when prompted to enter app applicant participant number press pound to indicate you wish to make a comment press star 9 so call this number then type in this webinar ID then press pound and then press star 9 let's see here if that she does that she raised her hand again so we're gonna try but it sounds like it's from her computer so let's see Joyce you are able to speak if you are you are not muted we can't we can't hear you Joyce well Joyce you should try calling that number and we'll we'll watch for you if you get back on I know you wanted to speak so we'll watch for you go to what I'd like to do in the meantime until Joyce is able to get online I'd like to have the applicant respond to some of the concerns that were raised by the public and any comments from the board of as well for though Mr. Stotsman we do is there anything you'd like to anyway you'd like to respond maybe Greg I could hop in here if that's alright and Mr. Chair if it's okay so maybe as far as I think the first question was why did why do we need permission to do it and I think it's as it's as simple as looking at the zoning bylaw understanding that I think it was town meeting it at that point had after planning board had proposed and the town ultimately approved this supplemental dwelling and then said that in these certain zoning districts here's the process that you have to go through so it isn't allowed use it just has a little bit more review than other like just a regular building permit why is the driveway so close to the abutting property I'll defer to Tom and Maria but my I would think that is because of the topography of the site and this is really where that site flattens out otherwise you're talking about a lot of cut you're probably talking about additional engineering costs and you're probably also you know I don't want to start talking about drainage but as you start to getting into earthwork you're starting to talk about different drainage so this seems like the natural place on the site to actually put the driveway and out of all sorts of uses the driveway is probably one of the most benign of those and then why have why have a turnaround why not just back out onto Mount Pollock's Drive and I think the best design is not to back out onto a roadway regardless of how busy or not busy that it is and I think you know you'll you'll see that in the zoning bylaw and I think just good planning practice is if folks don't need to back out they shouldn't back out and to have this additional area on site and avoid having people avoid parking on Mount Pollock's Drive to keep that public way clear for the public I mean it's just good design if there's a fire or some other emergency at the end of the cul-de-sac in a fire truck or on Mount Pollock's and somebody needs to get up there and you've got people parking on both sides of Mount Pollock's Drive then you know I don't I don't think anybody wants to see what happens there so having on-site parking the way that this has been designed is really just good design and as far as the lights go again we would suggest that there's a condition that requires that these be downcast and to not cause we'll say light pollution and I think hopefully with that you know the board feels comfortable enough to allow it understanding just how minimal these lights really are I think those are the those would be the items that we address like a chime in really quick there first I want to apologize to my neighbors for not realizing I had a mailbox outside their house it's probably why we haven't crossed paths outside on the street but I look forward to meeting you and regret this is kind of the the first opportunity we have you've done a great job with the house over there which kind of sat quiet for a long time I would just add to Tom's reasons about the parking that we did consider a configuration where the garage might be to the east of the house and of course the parking and the driveway are going to be associated with the garage and in that condition we end up with the houses essentially right next to each other and we felt it was preferable to have the garage as a bit of a screen between the two houses we do know it's an ongoing concern for the neighbors with the potential light and sound pollution we saw that with the last project and we think we've come up with a good solution by proposing the first go around a significant amount of vegetative screening and then adding in some fencing and I agree with Tom's comments on the lights as well I think that a condition that makes sure that we're not spreading light out beyond the property it's enshrined in the bylaw already and we plan to meet that criteria and not pollute with light onto the street. Mr. Chair there is a new another person that has joined us by phone yeah Joyce if it's you press star nine which will indicate that you want to speak but please continue and we'll wait for the person to press star nine if they wish to speak oh the person's raise their hand. All right. Yeah all right Joyce. Phone number ending in three eight three four three four three four. Can you hear me now? I'm going to suggest that you shut off your computer for a minute or walk away from your computer. Because it's echoing. Okay so it turns out I'm so sorry that it sounds like the microphone on our computer is not working. That's fine. So my name is Sam Gladstone and my wife is Joyce Duncan and I got to try to calm down with trying to get to talk to you because this is a big thing for us. So I'd like to start off by giving you a little history of this property because a good question was asked by Mrs. Mr. Maxfield and I don't think the full story was given. So we moved here in 1986 and we were actually sold the house by Greg's mother Ellen Stutzman was our realtor and when we bought it she told us this the property that Greg is now wanting to develop would never be developed because it was actually owned by five people. So there were five people along Southeast Street that had chipped in to buy this lot so it would never be developed. Greg bought as he said he bought the house on Southeast Street in 1210 and then unbeknownst to us there was never a for sale sign never any information anywhere that I saw that in 12 in 2012 the property was actually divided up in five as far as I understand Greg would know better and Greg this I know in 2012 he bought from Sonya Sofield who lives across from him across Mount Pollack on Southeast Street for $8,000 this the property so that now he could do what he wants to do. There was I surely would have paid more than $8,000 and again there was no information about this. Then in 2014 while Greg was on the zoning board on the planning board the zoning planning board recommended to the town council to create this supplemental detached dwelling unit as accessory to a one family detached dwelling which is now what Greg is using to do this project. Now I've been on all night watching and surely this presentation is very impressive. You know surely if we all have seen you know saw the previous one it was completely different. So this is a very beautiful project. And but the problem is if you if you go back and look look at the overall project it is like at our house it's not by the house that it's supposed to be a supplemental to and they have chosen you know I've been told by someone who was on the zoning board with Greg that he knows the rules better than anybody in town. So there's nothing that they're planning that is not within the rules. So the building is 800 feet but there's two porches and there's two decks and there's an office over the garage. And the whole thing could be sited much closer to his house. Now it might mean that some of the a tiny bit of his plantings might get shaded by the screened in porch that's going to be over the terrace in the north side just a little but it would get it away from our house and it makes no you know Tom really says that cars he's worried about the fire and cars parked on both sides of the street cars are never parked on both sides of the street and if they were it's a huge street there would be no trouble getting fire trucks up there so that the idea that you have four spaces two of them which are basically you know right up to the property line why because you have no laws about parking you don't have in any law laws about about the driveway you have a law about building so the building is 25 feet from the side. So I would request that you make this whole project move set move towards the east. He's decided he wants his house 38 feet back from Mount Pollux. So it could be nice for him but dad and but he's pushed that you know let it be 25 feet away from Mount Pollux and and he can move the whole project much further west. I came out when you did the site visit. I didn't know it was you Maureen. Maureen said I couldn't be there so I just asked if if the if people would look on the other side of the cedars that's the property line. I don't know if you did. It's a very unusual house where we live. It originally was 14 sided that and and it turns out unfortunately that the part that is closest to our property line is our bedroom and my wife loves to sleep with fresh air so the windows are open and she often likes the blinds open and we are very concerned and object very strongly to to it being so close because we're worried about noise and I'm very thankful for what Mr. Langsdale said about the lighting. We're worried about lighting. Already it's unusual but sometimes people trying to get up to Mount Pollux come come on the street and if it's nighttime and we're in bed and they go around the circle we will see the lights in our bedroom and we can only imagine what's going to happen when if you allow this parking turnaround and I want to reassert that nobody turns around in in a garage. There's completely no reason. This is a there's only two houses past what Greg wants to put in. This is not a main street. This is not like strong street or East Pleasant Street or South East Street. So it seems totally unnecessary to have it have those two extra spots and I think I would like the driveway to be at least 25 feet away. Our house is actually 49 our bedroom is 49 feet away from the property line. I'd like the closest thing that Greg builds the 49 feet away from our property line. Let me like you Chairman said I've got to try to settle down and look at some of the notes. It's interesting that the Miss Chow said it's a small modest footprint. It's a small modest footprint because the maximum allowed is 800 feet and that's what it is. But I would like someone to be able to tell me how much is the footprint if you include the two porches the garage and the the two decks. It's outrageous that this is what's been done with what as again I'm sorry I don't know all your names. Someone sort of suggested that usually what you see is this is a dwelling attached to the to the dwelling that's already there. You know you know as if you know my kids own this property and we got too old and they wanted to help us out and have us close to them. That's not what's going on here. We are very concerned about the privacy. If you allow this to go forward we're worried that there's a window in the garage that looks right onto our property. And if you allow it to go forward we would like you even though it's not allowed but we would like allow them to have an 8 foot fence and aesthetically before I would agree with the forest green that it be 8 feet. So you know to try to protect us as best we can from the noise and the light that we're really concerned about. I just want to uh I'm almost done. Just kind of sum it up if you would please. So the proposal would not constitute a nuisance due to noise and light that's 10.382. The proposal would not be a substantial inconvenience 10.383. The the proposal protects the adjoining premises against detrimental or offensive uses that's 10.385. The proposal provides protection of adjacent properties by minimizing the intrusion of lights including parking lot and exterior lighting that's 10.393. The proposal may the the view the zoning board may improve sit back side and rear yards graded in the minimum required by the borrower 10.4. So you know Greg is a very nice person he would he is a good neighbor he will be a good neighbor I know but but he should be closer to the house that he owns not closer to my to our house. So I'm going to give this over to my wife Joyce Duncan. Oh she says I've said it all she's gave me notes. So I really want to just thank you I'm amazed you know that you give your time to serve on on this important board and you've been at it now for two and a half hours just thank you. Thank you. I guess we give the app kind of a chance to respond and then we'll have questions from comments from the board. Sure so I guess Mr. Kerr if I could I we've got maybe one slide to show where Ms. Chalf has overlaid the proposed site plan with the with the GIS map I don't know if everybody can see it up there but effectively this just gives a little bit of context I think to proximity. I'm going to thank you. Thanks Maureen. Just gives a little bit of context to proximity to the adjacent dwelling and topography and I think you can see just with the topo lines you know what this site asks for and I think the way that Maria Tom and Greg designed it is to give the site what it asked for I mean this is just this is the natural place for this supplemental dwelling I'd have to disagree with the abutter that you know if it was my parents I might not mind having a little bit of yard in between us so I think you know folks are changing how like supplemental dwellings will exist. I think the lighting is probably something that we should talk about you know I don't know where the board's at on it I know where Mr. Langsdale is and Mr. Chairman I don't know where you are but maybe it's if you know is the condition going to do it I guess is the question. Yeah I'm not sure I'd like to get some more information as to how the one abutter who's not next door but who's I think across the street is impacted by that the wash of light on the front of the house that's what I I seem to understand that that they were concerned that they would see this big broad piece of of a flat space that would be um lit up and I thought that was their concern is that did I understand that correctly and can you respond to that. Is it this abutter here where my mouse is? I'm not sure I think so because I thought they said they were next to I thought it was that house across the over if I could yes it is that house 25 uh Mount Pollock's Drive had the concern about the lights as well. Yeah okay and their concern was more about how it washes the front of the house more so than um and more more than washing up the uh the ground and I don't know how you can solve that problem with that form of lighting. It kind of sounds like we're we're stuck between a rock and a hard place where somebody doesn't want it to illuminate the ground somebody doesn't want it to illuminate the the front facade of the house and so you know who wins here does it does it help if is it better to put them straight down is it better to reduce to maybe three of them on that south side just to reduce the number because I think you know the deck area here that's pretty well shielded I think what you've got on top of the garage is is really functional and if there's anything frankly I think it's that on the south side and and what do we do there and so I guess you know condition was our first suggestion save for that not working is it reducing it to to a lesser number like like three or something like that. I'm not sure if that's but that's something to consider the board will consider in terms of conditions here conditioning to not to wash or to reduce the number okay um is there any and maybe a Rob more I could tell me is there any limitation or is there any restriction on how close a driveway or a parking area can be to the lot line or to the neighbors I I I don't think there is but Maury do you have no have to know uh no there there is no setback for the driveway or parking area all right thank you all right um are there any other questions from the board and then we'll move to um we'll close the hearing Mr. Chair I do see two people raising their hand well actually one's Joyce but um her microphone doesn't work but Michael Morgan is raising his hand I think he spoke already did all right let's should we Mr. Morgan can you let me press it all right hon I'm you Mr. Morgan I think he is taking himself off oh okay Mr. Maxwell uh yeah I believe Mr. Duncan suggested uh he's okay with an eight foot fence there um I guess my question would be to uh most Mr. Duncan and Mr. Stutzman um would an eight foot fence uh along that area between your house and the property line would would that resolve the issues of that that property or that structure being built where it's built is would and if so would that be something that uh Mr. Stutzman is amenable to so I'd be perfectly amenable to it unfortunately we're putting in the largest fence the bylaw allows the maximum is four feet in the front setback and six feet beyond that front setback when it's along the property line as this is so we're proposing the maximum that the bylaw allows I will say that um in the probably four years I've had those arbor vitae they've grown about four feet and I'm happy to provide some tall arbor vitae to supplement that fence height I think it would be a nice amenity for us and it would help to increase the intensity of the screening. Mr. Chair um Michael Morgan is raising his hand hello hello are we there yeah okay this is Fanny Rothschild um I want to explain where we live I still don't feel like it's clear outstrive and it is not the access to mount pox conservation area so people do not come very rarely do they come very hardly ever mostly walking they they do not come and park and go up mount pox it actually is private property to walk up that side there are signs that say private property people do not come that we do not have a lot of cars there we do not have cars or people parking to walk up mount pox mount pox conservation area is about four or five houses further south on southeast street there's an access road and it says mount pox conservation area you drive up that and you park so people do not come and park on mount pox drive they may occasionally come and drive on the drive looking for the parking area and then they leave so we do not have not as I said nine cars parking we have one or two at the most and they're usually Sam's and Joyce's family um so again I do not see the need for a turn around we back onto this quiet street where we have two houses and now we'll have three um again I feel like the turn around is incredibly close to Sam's house Sam and Joyce's house the Gladstone and Duncan house um I do not see why the turn around is needed so so there's it's not there will be access to ambulances and fire engines there's not other cars parking there it's not an access to mount pox conservation area the other question that I did not get answered is will these lights these floodlights be on all night how often are they on how often are they on I don't understand that question in a second we're still talking about the lights so I think you appreciate your comments and I think we uh many of them we've heard before and it's good to hear them again so I did have a question about the the lights of where they'd be um motion sensitive or um how there would be what's your plan for the lighting door so kind of through the the beauty of technology we're able you know our side of things is able to speak um I guess as far as the lighting goes the I think the garage would be a switch and those wouldn't be on all night you know the soffit lights at the garage the same thing with the soffit lights on the easterly side of the garage and the westerly side of the house illuminating that deck in in this area if you're still looking at the screen right in there I think those are on a switch as well uh and wouldn't be on all night and then for these soffits here I you know hopefully this helps get across the finish line hearing that you know Mr. Langsdale had a concern um and that the neighbors are having some concern why don't we scrap those soffit lights and put two sconces one on each side of that entry door to make sure that it illuminates you know the stairs and the path sufficiently identifies the house and just get away from you know Mr. Langsdale's concern about it being high get away from the neighbor's concern about it washing against the building and just put more of a traditional sconce slide and and call it a day if that's okay all right we could make that you can change that on the plan or make that a condition yeah if it it would be great if that's a condition and then we can submit it to the planning department prior to a receipt of a building permit sconces all right um and is there a limit on is our eight foot fences permitted by special permit or is it the hard and fast but we cannot permit an eight foot fence I think we need a variance I think but I'm wondering as well uh under 6.29 I was looking at that myself here and we're not doing a variance uh well we're all correct me if I'm wrong but I believe uh I mean 6.29 is not listed in this application so it wouldn't be applicable for this public hearing but seems that um yeah so 6.24 is the section that has the um the limit on the size of the fence the height of the fence but 6.29 does a lot of modification of that if the board was interested in exploring that yeah for a higher with that have to be done in a separate um special permit it's not referenced yet Rob I sense uh I think that's up to you I think I think in this case the fence was part of the application and if the board felt uh modification was needed one way or the other up or down I think that they can make that adjustment so I would I would be okay you know suggesting that you could modify the height under 6.29 in this application all right thank you mr maxfield um yeah before we you go down this route um I just would like to know if it's possible get an answer from uh mr mrs duncan uh would an eight foot fence uh solve their concerns it's actually Gladstone oh I'm sorry that's uh they have oh I thought they had raised their hands they expressed up uh press star nine um Gladstone's because I I can't remember which I think I'm just gonna go for it Sam Sam Sam's here okay Sam can you hear me yes oh hallelujah so I want to go back to you we're all looking at the same thing now I think of the plot right in Mount Pollock's Drive in southeast street can you hear me yes we can hear you we're looking at that but I want you to uh focus your comments on the eight foot fence no no let me just that's not fair please let me just because Tom I totally disagree with what he said you can see that if he they were willing to move the house south and east then you would be able to move the house further away from the property line we it's just that they want to be 38 feet back but that puts them right against our property so and you haven't addressed that the driveway even though it's allowed is closer than 25 feet and these extra spaces are closer than 25 feet you're dealing with lighting which is great and I'm thankful for that and yes having an eight foot fence would surely be better but there's no reason that the whole project can't be moved southeast and it would not if you look at the lay of the land it could easily happen thank you mr gladstone dr gladstone thank you dr gladstone um did that answer your question mr maxfield uh I I believe so I guess it it doesn't solve all the issues but it would help it solves the effort helps all right any other comments or questions from the board I'd like to move to the public meeting on this if the board is ready to Maria chow are you go ahead Maria tonight or yeah if that's fine we're moving on to a motion or decision that's fine I was just going to answer mr gladstone's question but what were your next steps mr judge what were you proposing no I might is to move to the public meetings and make some decisions but if you have something pertinent to respond to mr gladstone you should do it now and before we and then we're going to move to the public meeting section gotcha okay very quickly um we can't we can't really move the house south what happens is with the grading we're not able to have a walkout basement we would have to excavate significantly there'd be a lot more cut into the site in order to have the basement to go to grade on the north and so that's the reason why the house is actually situated that far back in order to reduce the amount in order to balance the cut and fill that was the ideal location that tom benjamin and I found as far as not having to create a lot more fill that needs to be accounted for on the site so that's it okay all right I think we should move to the decision-making aspect and what I'd like to do is leave the hearing open while we while we open up the public meeting so if there is a need for further comments we can do that but I'd like to open now the public meeting on this and this in the public meeting is principally a way for the board to discuss what they would like to do and the questions they have and to identify conditions that they want to impose should they support a should they support the the application so I think we hear a couple of conditions that are important one the conditions I'd like to go run through those first in addition dealing with the the lights that there are there are fewer lights and that you're knowing the exact wording of that morning there were fewer lights and that they would be they would not they're gone from the front of the house is that right the lights have gone from the front of the house so the condition that they would not wash or the front of the house and they would not be lighting but instead there'd be two sconces on the side of the door yes how Mr. Langsdale you have some strong feelings about that does that satisfy your concerns yeah that's that's good thank you all right secondly we have we've talked about an eight-foot fence which we would have to which we could permit under 6.24 that seems to me that would minimize or at least reduce the problems with the neighbors is there general support for that and is there any problems with any member of the board on an eight-foot fence miss parks I thought mr. Studsman was talking about perhaps putting more arbor vd so that the fence didn't didn't need to be higher I I don't know what his position on that is if he prefers is does not want to do an eight-foot fence as that's a more imposing structure fine eight-foot fence okay and can I just ask one additional question so you are building a basement and but it's not counted in the square footage and it's only going to be for storage and so I guess that makes me want to go why do you need a basement so again 800 square feet is a pretty small house so we have minimal storage on the main living floor really minimal I'm not coming from a huge house but I'm coming from one where I have a space for storing lawn equipment and whatnot and I plan to be needing more of that as we have more to maintain with Tom Benjamin's great plan there's going to be a lot of maintenance to do so I think your main question is is that finished habitable space down there the answer is no and I think a condition to that effect was discussed okay okay we do not need to make that a condition it's not it can't be habitable space can it all right we'd violate then we'd violate the don't want to be ordered more than 800 feet and is there an office above the garage I had considered one but it's not part of this proposal all right um so I'm going through other conditions that we discussed on the prop in the uh project application report um there's some standard conditions first of all that things have to be built to plan as provided by to the staff that's provided to the town all rooms have to be labeled on the following approved floor plan 810 um no one family which is supplemental apartment is constructed or upon the property of which the supplemental dwelling unit is built maybe you simultaneously for an accessory lodging under any provisions of section 5.010 or any supplemental unit built upon the property such one family dwelling is to be so used um one of the properties one of the units on this property is going to be owner occupied um the unit shall not be occupied by this new unit will not be occupied by more than three adults the management plan the complaint response plan shall be followed and any changes to those you return to the zoning board of appeals for a public meeting um we still want to have the lighting restrictions that they be downcast and dark staff compliant we don't want to move that remove that condition any dwelling unit of the property rented shall be registered permitted in accordance with the residential rental law street numbers for both dwelling units shall be clearly marked with reflective signage parking shall occur on improved services only the parking area shall be maintained and parking and drive area shall be constructed in accordance with the apartments of 7.1 this would be the place to see if there is any if there i am not in favor of forcing the applicant to change the parking lot and access parking but i want to keep that open i want to hear the opinion of other board members on that if they want to move if they want to reduce the parking area as a condition of the of the application they say i'm not inclined to do that i think there's a lot of a lot of buffer to the neighboring property and there's no zoning bylaw that requires it individual parking spaces shall be painted marked or otherwise delineated you must have a line down here to delineate your parking the maximum number of overnight visitors per unit shall be three people with a maximum stay of seven nights the maximum number of people in the on the premise at any time will be 15 people that's both for your house and for the the main dwelling correct Greg do you want to take that i i thought this was just for just for you so a little bit of question on that i think the context we spoke about this wording with staff was in the lease context and so the lease would be for the property that we intend to rent so that that both the limitations you're referring to would apply to the least premise but is the least premise you know is that that is before us because the other because the supplemental unit is before us is that i guess all right i suppose that's a way to get there um so we have three people overnight unit of three people seven consecutive nights for the best yeah so the the maximum number of overnight guests per unit shall be three people with a maximum stay of seven nights so that the existing house is one unit so the maximum they could have is three people staying for seven nights and then the maximum at that existing building that the premises associated with the existing building would be 15 and so as long as it's for 13 and 14 on your list as long as it's called out that for the existing residential structure or the existing one family dwelling because that's the rental property correct um firstly the board could um or alternatively the board could consider you know the maximum number of people on the premises total and Greg could come up with a suggested number of what for the entire property or as mr reedy uh suggested um just focusing on this one unit for how many people can be on the premises it's just that uh these are two different ways that the board has handled this in the past so something to consider we can either we can limit the least we can limit the total or we can limit the total property mr maxfield i'm sorry maybe i just don't quite understand um the need for this or where this is in the in the bylaw uh why is it that we have to mandate how many people can can be on the property at any given time would that that not be the discretion of the landlord to write that lease is there something the bylaw i'm unaware of that that puts a limit on this we typically do this in order to reduce the likelihood of large parties and disturbances in the neighborhood for rental property now we have owner occupied rental property in the neighborhood and it's almost we almost always put the limitation on the number of people that can that can be there for an event or that can stay overnight in order to avoid having people living there beyond what they're what's supposed to be living there was action permitted so it's pretty standard that there's some number of which we work with the owner with it's what they're comfortable with and they include that subsequently include that number in their lease um so if i if i understand this correct that if it would be the case that if i were to simply purchase my own house there would be no limit on how long i could have guest stay number of guests or how many people i could could have an attendance and an event on that property obviously if i were having a a a party that was a nuisance whether or not i own the home that is an issue with the police and and we have laws in place for that but it's the zoning board of appeals it it's been our standard practice that when it comes to renters that we have hard and fast rules about how many guests are allowed on the property how long they're there for and how many people maximum can be there rather than that simply being a landlord's discretion i i just think of something of if there's a tenant living there typically i know in my lease it says without express written permission from my landlord so if in the case i say you know want to have a graduation party or a birthday party here i could write my landlord let my neighbors know hey i'm doing this and have a party with a large number of guests that would then be held in a responsible way that wouldn't be a nuisance but we i i don't understand why the zoning would do in order to in order to increase the comfort for the neighbors to reduce the so they they they then know if they if there's been too many people beyond the amount permitted at the property if there's a party that there it's a party or other kind of gathering that is causing a nuisance there's there's the ability for the neighbors to to report that and to get some some satisfaction and it also it also is a way in which to maintain to try to reduce the impact of um rental property on neighborhoods and so it's been one that has helped with the ability for people to have rental property because it reduces the amount of concern in the neighborhood and that's why we've done it but there is there is no no hard and fast rule on that and this isn't something that would apply to somebody who simply purchases a house and they'd be free of those restrictions well there be i'm not the i can't speak on that but i think there'd be some restrictions even on your own house for how many people could would you be able to live there if they're unrelated folks not part of a family there would also be restrictions on the part the party and how many people can be in the house even if you're not renting to them i guess there'd be a limit there's there's health and safety limitations but this has been used effectively by the zba to try to to manage rental housing expression in a in a student of a university town oh yeah i guess just kind of my my last question i won't hold it up because you know we can always certainly vote on that in a condition but uh i guess my last point to that would be if there there are limits on uh the same that would apply to home ownership in any condition that we're putting here wouldn't that be redundant because those laws that apply to homeowners would apply the same to uh renters so if there is a hard and fast limit then that would already exist without the conditions that we would put on there are there are limits and restrictions on owner on rental housing owner-occupied or non-owner-occupied that are different than than owner then family housing or single-family homes that you occupy and don't rent to so there are differences in the zoning laws but maybe either mr mora or mr reedy can explain that if we want to go down this road farther we can or we can talk about it when we we can vote on the on the conditions you know we can save for the discussion on this of conditions so we can you know kind of keep this moving okay um other conditions change of ownership the new property shall be required to return to the zba at a public meeting for review and approval of the management plan the property shall be free of litter and debris um the color of the fence shall do you want to condition the fence the color of the fence or is i i think we said it's you're you're happy with hunter green it or the hunter or forest green so maybe hunter or forest green hunter or forest green that's all right um the fence shall not exceed 14 i think we could move that the fence shall not to probably not exceed four feet on the front lot line and the the fence the part where the fence can go to eight feet is along the portion of the side lot line between the minimum front setback and the rear lot line so you don't have an eight foot fence right along the right along the roadway which would look kind of awful you have the four foot fence and then you can go to the eight foot fence at the after you pass the setback yes right we'd be okay with a six foot fence and the start there if you'd like that i feel like we talked about an eight foot fence i wouldn't want my neighbors to feel slighted that they got a four foot fence for the area near the parking area so i'm happy with it it's a six foot or an eight whatever you deem if you think it's too high that's fine too i i think i'm i'm comfortable with four feet i think it looks it's imposing to have a a fence right a six foot fence right on the on the street and potentially maintain a good condition are there other conditions that we want to consider those are the ones suggested by the staff and those are some of the ones that we've talked about in the hearing so with that i'd like to i know that i'd like to move that we that we adopt these conditions with the exception of the um we'll have a separate vote on the limits on the people there because i know that mr maxfield wants to to maybe talk about that some more but i would move that we approve these conditions as laid out in the in the project application report of october 10th with with a mod of october 1st with modifications that we've talked about aside from condition 13 and 14 which we can discuss separately do i have a do i have a second to that motion second um is there any discussion this part so if so it tell me what these if we vote yes what does that mean we then we'll come back to 13 and 14 next and we'll discuss those okay but and then after 13 and 14 so if we're voting yes we are approving the project no no reporting on the conditions and then we'll have and then we'll have to discuss we're voting on the conditions and then we'll discuss uh we have to make certain findings of 10.38 we make those findings then we'll come back and vote on the okay with conditions yep so you know where we were okay here you may want to just hold off uh approving the conditions until after you go through the findings just in case um for whatever reason maybe one of the findings could affect one of the conditions that you disapproved it might probably won't happen but i don't know but it might be possible to get a rent uh this is Sharon will then a rendering or a drawing of what a four foot to an eight foot or a six foot to an eight foot fence would look like along that property line it's hard to vote on something you really can't see it and the pictures we've gotten have been great but i would sure like to see what that would look like i mean we could certainly provide that i would just suggest that it be as a condition of approval so that hopefully we can get the approval this evening and then we can come back at a public meeting and then the board can decide between four to eight or six to eight because it sounds like everybody's fine with either of those and it's really up to the board with aesthetics to say here's what we want but given the balance of everything else that we've talked about it um i would hate to hold up the whole thing for that if you will Ms. Walden are you comfortable with that if i could think about that while we are deliberating i would appreciate that you got it okay um so that marina i don't think there's a i don't think there's many of the um findings that are going to affect that are going to affect the um conditions oh can you hear me this is sam glider am i allowed to talk we're no we're we're in up in the public meeting section mr langsdale um i think there there's a standard condition on our about uh like a project has to be done within two years or it has to for the permission i mean the right come back yes normally it's yes substantial construction has to be done within two years it's normally a condition of any special permit so two years to substantial as it's the wording is substantial construction isn't it so the motion before us is for um the conditions except for 13 and 14 and i think mr langsdale has asked would ask that an additional two years for substantial construction to take place would be another condition but we're so i'm looking for any other discussion on that or a vote on those conditions not 13 and 14 mr chair if miss waldman is going to decide to accept the suggested condition i think that this is probably where it goes because it would be good so that we'll we'll construct this up marie you can construct a condition that they the applicant come back with renderings of a four to six and it's four to eight foot fence various renderings that we had a public meeting that we can decide which is appropriate to us does that work for you miss waldman yes and i think it would be four to eight and or six to eight i think those were the two things we talked about the one right at the the difference being the fence that's budding right if it gets in streak perfect right and and i i didn't hear quite i'm not sure i heard quite clearly is mr langsdale asking for four years for substantial completion of project no it's two years to have substantial substantial work done i think substantial construction okay i just heard something so thank you all right any other discussion on the conditions or any other all right i just uh if the applicant needs to come back would that be at a public meeting for the fence elevation okay yep all right the question occurs on adoption of the conditions not 13 or 14 which we'll discuss next uh it's a roll call it's a roll call vote i vote i mr langsdale hi miss parks hi mr maxfield hi miss waldman hi the motion is unanimous and it carries then the two areas that we're still discussing is the maximum number of overnight visitors number 13 and number 14 the maximum number of people in the premise at any time be 15 people um these have been these are typical and often we use almost often almost always we condition rental property with limitations on the amount of people that can be there at any one time with a total number of people that can be there overnight as guests um mr maxfield do you have i support this and i would continue it but you have an opposition to it and please state your opposition and we can yes but my uh my opposition to this comes primarily from uh i think it puts uh renters essentially into a different class than than home owners of what they are and are not allowed to do where i can think of especially in this case where it's an owner-occupied house with mr stutzman living there with is not an absentee landlord um and i very much believe it would be in his interest to put in the lease this condition uh and then and there without express written consent from the landlord something like that would be typical and the reason i wouldn't want to put something like this in there is for the reason i suggested before it's something we want to have a graduation party something during the day something like that that that isn't intrusive they now can't because they're renters and another case i could think of with overnight guests we're talking about a time right now where we're in the midst of a pandemic and a lot of people are going homeless around the country i can imagine a case where there might be a tenant living there who might come to mr stutzman at some point say a friend of mine has fallen on hard times i'd like them to be able to stay with me for two months three months whatever that might be and then mr stutzman will be able to consider something like that where if we've gone ahead and put on a condition like that then mr stutzman would have no discretion there would simply have to say i'm sorry but you you can't help a friend in this this uh type of case where again a homeowner would be able to do that where we're now putting renters in a different class where they wouldn't be allowed to do that and i i'd be more open to to yeah the realities we are a college town a lot of this is to prevent partying things like that and so we're strictly a rental unit non-owner occupied i'd be more amenable to it but where we have the owner uh occupied there he is the direct neighbor he himself has an incentive to not have parties there i don't think that's the real concern i just don't want to tie mr stutzman's hands on this to say hey i'd love to help you but legally i can't because of this condition that's been put on here by the town and it's for that reason that i i really don't support this type of condition i um i'll be voting no on it and i and i hope uh i i hope the the rest of the board can can see that point of view and can can go along with that as well because i think our concerns will be addressed by by the lease um any board member with comment mike miss parks what if you add or with permission of the homeowner but have those conditions there i think the concern is whenever you change property or somebody else is managing it it's it's trying to not let it get out of hand i mean i understand what you're saying that you don't want to restrict uh you know how someone lives their life um so would that work for you um mr maxfield if we added that or with permission of the owner yeah i i'm certainly amenable to that because i i can't imagine that uh anyone any landlord would write a lease that doesn't limit number of guests without their permission um so the we go yeah go ahead i'm sorry yeah so i i i think if we mandated that condition where mr stutzman would have that discretion or rather any landlord would have that discretion um if we mandate that specifically i think that's that's no different than us making no mandate because any landlord would put that condition in their lease no my concern is that we're starting to but we've that we're setting a precedent and i don't want to i don't want to move away from the precedent that we've set for a long time for as long as i and i'm not a long-term member but as long as i've been on the board that we've had limits on rental property either owner occupied or non owner occupied i'm up with a number of people that can stay visitors and have people that can stay and i and because we don't want to allow um the good landlords it's not going to be a problem a lot of these rules are because landlords are either maybe aren't may not be there or they may be they may be very um they may not be good landlords but but and i don't say that in the case of this gentleman mr stutzman but i do think that if we start making exceptions because we think that um this one we probably don't have to in this case because it's a good guy or he's nearby i think that we then make it difficult for us to do it in the future and that has been an important part of making people comfortable with providing rental housing is these kinds of limits and this kinds of accountability and these kind of conditions make it easier and give the neighbors the ability and and perhaps not in this case but in other cases to ensure that there's not abuse of the rental housing in their neighborhood and i i would really be concerned about setting a precedent that we that we not impose these kinds of limits in this case could i add something really quickly yes mr stutzman sorry i was just there's a little bit of ambiguity about the premises so and this may be your intent but could it clarify that it's the least premises or clarify that these provisions go in the least because i was asked to come up with the numbers that seem we mentioned that you mentioned that before and it was for the least premises not that not okay property we had we had a couple of options and did not do the entire property so i think we just have a difference of opinion on this one and i think probably we just ought to vote um and whether we adopt these or not we can miss parks has an has an amendment if she'd like to offer that as an amendment to uh 13 or 14 that would be fine is it the time to do that and we could adopt that adopt the amendment and adopt the two conditions if that's what people want to do i would like to add that amendment okay so your amendment is would be to add the words without the owners of the permission of the of the owner all right and that'd be for both 13 and 14 yeah okay um be a discussion on the amendment mr. lion today yeah um um miss parks what her amendment is or by permission of the owner is that right um yeah we're with permission or with permission yeah okay this or with her permission yeah right so could we read 13 and 14 with the amendment so we know what we're voting on so miss parks it would how would you construct that sentence the maximum number of overnight visitors per unit shall be three people with a maximum stay of seven nights in the least if we want to add the at least add the least premises good good catch or with the permission of the owner or maximum or if you want more you'll need permission they would have to get permission from the owner so in other words you want to have a party with 20 people you need to get the the owner to say that that's all right i think mr maxfield had some good language when he said without the consent of so you've got to put in a negative so otherwise it's kind of a left out there so say the maximum number is at the least or these um without without permission of the owner that would then allow them to it's in unless the owner says yes you understand that understandable mr line kill yeah could we just read both of them now with the maximum number of overnight visitors per unit shall be three people with a maximum stay of seven nights without the permission of the owner in the least premises in the least premises there's gotta be a better way to say that there's gotta be a better way we got we got lawyers here that can do it out the maximum number of overnight visitors shall not exceed three people with a maximum stay of up to seven nights in the least premises without um the express consent of the way that's the express consent of the owner all right good it's definitely late yep it's definitely without the express consent of the owner yes my lawyer brain left me some hours ago yes well we're not getting the nine o'clock um same and the same with 14 all right so that's the discussion is there any other discussion on that amendment all those yeah just just just the last pet before we go in there uh yeah i understand the uh the precedent and i think it would be a different discussion uh if it's not owner occupied but i i hope everyone will consider this condition because i i do think this condition puts renters into a different class than than homeowners and uh there's a wrench in myself i don't i don't like that idea that i i have to be a different class of person and what i'm allowed to do on in my dwelling because i don't own the home so i certainly hope uh people can will be amenable to this condition vote occurs on miss park's amendment to 13 and 14 and we then will vote on adopting the amendment but first we adopt the first we will vote on the amendment it's a roll call vote um i vote no mr langsdale miss parks i mr maxfield hi miss wallman hi motion carries four to one now the vote is on the um the two conditions as amended by the parks amendment is there any discussion if not uh the vote occurs it's a roll call vote i vote no mr langsdale hi miss parks hi mr maxfield hi miss wallman hi vote carries four to one um and the motion is adopted as amended so we've adopted the we've adopted conditions and now we need to go through and make our findings findings can be found on the project um the project application report it is late i mean hard time with that this is a on page six of the of the report this is a supplemental attached dwelling unit um shall we free stand small freestanding accessory one family just permitted to co-occur on a residential property a supplemental incidental to a new to a one family detached dwelling a supplemental detached dwelling unit may be the result of new construction rehabilitation of an existing structure you shall not and um then we have general requirements 5.005.0112 it's it meets these it's less than 800 it's 800 square feet um may not be used for lodging simultaneously as point two point three is the dwelling unit shall be occupied by the owner of the principal one family residence which requirement shall be made a condition of any special permit which we have done notwithstanding perversions of article 12 a supplemental dwelling unit shall be occupied by no more than three adult residents which is a requirement design and principal established in this section shall be applied to all access from the use as under the section the proposed supplemental detached dwelling unit is located within the outline that residents our own zoning district which requires a special permit approval by the zoning board of appeals therefore the applicant is requesting a special permit to construct a supplemental detached dwelling and we it meets it meets the requirements of we the findings that we have to make under 5.0112 parking in access we find that parking in access regulations um four parking spaces two spaces inside and two spaces outside this is um in um it exceeds the amount of the minimum required parking spaces dimensional regulations we've dealt with a fence 6.24 um it there are several um sections on fences and we're um you operating under 6.24 to allow us to have a lot a higher fence in six feet um the proposed the proposed planning and struggling the applicant proposed this planting within the front setback along the southern lines there's no public sidewalk there therefore the proposal meets section 6.23 of the zoning bylaws the fence we've discussed um four feet high the color we've discussed and we had a specific condition on the fence height and color and uh dwelling units you intend to occupy we've done that so now we have so we've met the requirements of of um section 5 section 7 and section 6 now section 10.38 specific findings required the proposal is suitably located in a neighborhood to which it is proposed the proposed detached supplemental dwelling unit is allowed within the outline residential zoning district with special permit the site has adequate space for our main house in a supplemental dwelling unit with 800 feet of habitable space the site will have sufficient room for open space and required parking 10.382 383 385 387 the proposal will not constitute a nuisance due to air and water pollution flood noise order dust vibration lights or visibly offensive structures or site features would not be substantial inconvenience or hazard to others considering the the conditions that we placed on the lighting and the on the fence I think we've met those requirements the proposed planting also provides visually shield opposed parking garage and dwelling unit from the adjacent properties to the west north and south the property owner intends to reside in one of the dwelling units on the property which would be a condition of a special permit the proposal provides dark sky compliant lighting the proposal provides convenient and safe vehicular pedestrian movement within the site and in relation to adjacent trees property or improvements 10.384 adequate facilities for proper operation of proposed use utility services are there 10.386 is in conformance to the parking sign regulations has four parking spaces two parking spaces for each dwelling unit so and so we've met 3.8 10.3.86 10.387 the proposal provides convenient safe vehicular traffic no vehicular and pedestrian traffic is found on the site 10.388 the proposal ensures adequate space for off-treat loading and unloading this is not applicable to the project 10.389 the proposal provides adequate methods of disposal and our storage for sewage refuge recyclables and other waste trash recycling been to locate in the garage water and sewer connection oh you know we did not I did not update that yeah I think we it is on town sewer isn't it so so well the applicant has been in contact with the town engineer and the town engineer is satisfied with you know their their intention to connect to the town sewer and water town engineer satisfied yeah we need to be that again do we have to make that a condition no it's going to be done all right but we and we we've referenced it in the discussion so it's locked in methods of drainage for water service the proposal includes on-site stormwater management creation of rain garter's rain gardens etc a copy of the applicant's submittal was distributed to the town engineer and provided comments regarding the proposal on september 29th he does not have any issues with the proposal submitted 10.390 flood hazards the proposal is not in a designated flood zone and it provides adequate drainage 10.391 protects the extent feasible unique or important historic features this finding is not applicable to the project 10.392 it provides adequate the proposal provides adequate landscaping for residential uses provision of street trees landscape violence parking lot is not applicable but non-residential uses is not applicable generally the proposal provides significant new landscaping to the screen from adjacent residential uses 10 plus it has a fence to also screen 10.393 the proposal provides protection of adjacent property by minimizing the inclusion of lighting parking lot and exterior lighting through the use of cutoff luminaries light shields lowered light poles in short lighting includes architectural sign lighting all must be dumb dark-scarred compliant and dumbcast we've changed the the lighting through the through the conditions and we find that they meet with those conditions they meet the dark-scarred compliance and they meet 10.393 10.394 avoids steep slopes is not applicable 10.395 the proposal does not create disharmony with respect to the terrain and to the use scale and architecture of existing buildings in the vicinity the proposal detached supplemental dwelling is found to be in harmony with that which is currently existing on site and is found to be lower in height than the existing home 10.396 the proposal provides screening for storage areas trash and recycling shall be stored in the true car garage 10.397 the proposal provides adequate recreational facilities this is not very sufficient open space on the site 10.398 the proposal is in harmony with the general purpose and intent of the spy law and the goal of the master plan section four demographics and housing of the Amherst master plan states that a mix of housing be provided to meet the needs of and is affordable to the broadest possible spectrum of the community with the applicant providing supplemental red dwellings as infill on existing property the proposal has met with the intent of the master plan by providing a mix of housing within the neighborhood in addition the proposed supplemental detached dwelling is in harmony with the zoning bylaw in relation to section five point zero one one and other applicable sections those are our findings we've we've gone through the findings and met them we've adopted the conditions what remains as the final vote on the project and the application as with conditions so is there a motion to approve the project with conditions mr maxville moves is there a second second miss park seconds is there discussion on the motion to approve the application with conditions if not the motion occurs on the vote but the vote occurs on the motion all those in favor of um approving the application with conditions indicate by a voice vote aye vote aye mr langsdale aye miss parks aye mr maxfield aye just wallin aye motion is unanimous motion carries um thank you very much thank you the last the last item of good luck the last item of business is um the ability to open up the for any member of the public to discuss anything they want except for those items before the the board tonight um this is required by town rules and so we open up the floor for anybody in the public to discuss anything they want except for issues before us tonight is there anybody in the public that wishes to speak so please raise your hand yes please raise your hand star nine there being no other comments um the next meeting marine is on wednesday wednesday night on 132 north hampton at six o'clock we'll start at six o'clock and we'll have we'll be dealing with um some conditions and waivers for next next week you'll have material before you before the meeting so you can study it all right gang we didn't make that we didn't come close to hitting nine o'clock tonight i'm sorry but we dealt with a lot of stuff mr langsdale yeah i have something to say about this we're two hours over the nine o'clock every application that comes up they are told that we will make a decision if we can this evening i'm not doing this again i'm not doing two hours over the night if we can't make a decision even because it's going way too long then we say you'll have to come back we'll have to continue it but i'm not doing this again i understand no and if that's a problem i can resign but i'm not doing this again this is ridiculous i apologize we should it's not your fault but but no it is to be able to say look they they wanted to get it done tonight that's great that that's the first thing to do but that wasn't my it's too much i agree with i agree with you it's long and shouldn't have happened and i that's my fault i guess we could have but we would not have had it wasn't to get it done tonight we just have so much of other stuff we have to do this wouldn't be up until i probably until november by the time you get this stuff you know that's not our problem that's right miss parks i was just going to say also the the thing about getting materials so late is is also a little frustrating because it's you know it's kind of like i work and so i'm rushing home from work to read the latest thing and then you know and then we'll get public comment you know after i've looked at things and so i feel like i don't i don't have everything so i don't i don't feel as prepared as i would like to because a lot of applicants are just sending stuff in you know 15 minutes before the meeting yeah that's why i asked you about the fence i didn't i had no idea that they sent it in because i couldn't go through all that much i didn't have time to go through all that material a lot of it coming today or yesterday it and we've talked about this before well and if they don't submit until the day of the hearing i think we should tell them right up front we're probably not going to decide this tonight because we haven't been able to look at all of the materials we haven't been able to ingest it so that we know what we're talking about i don't want to look foolish saying well why don't you know we need a picture of the fence well we have one we sent it to you oh okay great you know it's just it's not the way to run the board i agree with that the way to run the board we should enforce the rule change that we made earlier this year on the material to us a week before yeah yep all right i'm glad to know that other people feel strongly about that and we will insist on that with our applicants in the future we will mr maxfield not fair to us you know our pay grade doesn't uh doesn't uh i'm getting rich off this especially on these already you're getting rich uh i i don't know if anyone else is is amenable to this and if they aren't that's totally understandable but even for something like this where we might want to continue something where we know where we're getting near the end of something we can kind of see the goal line i am certainly open to doing an off night where we know it's going to be a one hour meeting where we're finishing now that ain't going to happen that ain't going to happen because then suddenly we're making we're making adjustments for them this is the board when we meet is when we meet we get the business done as fast as we can with the materials in a timely manner or or are we continuing and they have to understand that it's their responsibility to get the materials to us not our responsibility it's not our responsibility to rush home at like after work and run through all this material so that we can start talking at 6 30 it's just not the way to run this board it's not the way it's been run before and it can't be run like this and i'm this 11 o'clock shit is you know mark and i dealt with this a long time ago and i'm not going back to it frankly again i think we've been really good in my in our defense we've been really good until tonight was trying to get it done by 9 9 30 this one went long and that is my fault i agree and we won't have it happen again but all i think the two points number one we're going to enforce the get substantive material to us ahead of time so we can read it and study it and two we will have we'll have a more firm limit on when we're going to when we'll be done 9 o'clock at night and we'll try to and we will strive to be as good as we've been until now this was the exception and and and with with all of this i'm amenable if it's 9 o'clock and we're you know going through one sort of thing that we need to figure out we go to 9 30 okay but to keep going on is just it just so that they can get it done you know no it's not why i'm here i understand that's not all right that up for it all right folks i move to adjourn second should we discuss this more oh yeah let's do that all right um i vote i mr. Langston i mr. Barton we just thought i by hitting leave if it's faster mr. maxfield and miss waldo hi hi all right we'll see you next wednesday all right goodnight everyone