 So anyway, welcome everybody. My name is Tiffany Vale. I'm the Southern New England Conference's Associate Conference Minister for Communications. And we're all really glad you're here. I'm very, very happy to welcome Eric, Ellie, to our staff and to introduce him to you. He's our new digital minister as of last week. So he's hit the ground running by putting this webinar together. We've heard a lot from churches over the last few weeks or the last few months that they really need a lot of assistance in this whole online area. So that's what Eric is here for and we're really glad. So I'm gonna let him introduce himself and talk to you all and I'll just be here in the background. If you have comments, questions, you can put them in the chat. If the number of attendees stays very low, we could even towards the end to let people unmute and ask questions that way. We'll see how it goes. But Eric's gonna talk, give his presentation for about 20 minutes. And after that, we'll open up for questions and discussion. So take it away. Thanks so much. Can I be, there we go, thank you so much. Thanks, Tiffany. Again, I've been called to promote and support digital media in the, in digital ministry in the Southern New England Conference. And I'm happy that we have folks here from California as well. These are definitely strange and challenging times for the church and we're experiencing what it's truly, truly means to being nimble. And I think and believe in my heart of hearts that digital ministry is a tool that we can use and that we are using to welcome those who one cannot join us in person but also to welcome those folks who may not know too much about the church, welcome them into church. So in this webinar, I'd like to talk about achieving good audio when live streaming to Facebook and YouTube. These best practices, even though I just said live streaming, they also can be applied to Zoom worship as well. So tonight's webinar is a starting point for our ongoing discussion about audio. The recommendations that we talk about this evening will be used as building blocks for future conversations, for future webinars, for future videos. So some of you may know and understand and probably seen the configuration that I'm gonna specifically talk about this evening. While others that may be new. So I asked that in a spirit of goodwill that we all be patient with one another. And in our question and answer session at the end of our time together, we can share and share what works and what didn't work in your own ministry setting. So I found that audio was one of the top questions that I've get asked about a lot. And I found that audio is one of the key elements in digital worship, that if it's not quite right, people notice, like your video doesn't have to be perfect but and it may not be perfect. But if the audio is a little off, if people can't hear properly, that's when people really start to notice and take pause. So this webinar is gonna assume some things. This webinar assumes that you're using a laptop or desktop for live streaming and that includes live streaming software that you may or may not be using. That software can either be VMIX, it can be OBS or a live stream studio now called Vimeo live stream studio since Vimeo has purchased live stream. So before we begin, I have some information in terms of terminology that we could go over. And I'm putting that up on the screen now as a way for us to kind of get on the same page. So I touched a little bit on what a streaming computer is a few moments ago. And the streaming computer again is any, like I said, any laptop that's running VMIX, OBS or live stream studio or Vimeo live stream studio. The next term that I'll be using this evening is a device called a broadcast mixer. Now a broadcast mixer, and I had to go back and put a picture of what I was actually talking about because if I said broadcast mixer, some people may think that I'm talking about a 48 channel board that you would see in some sort of a professional space. But these are compact mixers that sit between your house sound system or your church's public address system. And the streaming computer. So the next bit of terminology we're gonna discover tonight is a device called a DI box or direct input box. A DI box is placed between the output typically of your house of worships PA system. And from this point, I will call it a house sound system. So between your house sound system and the mixer. And what that allows, it allows the signals which are coming out of the your house sound system, which are pretty high, they're line level signals to be reduced to microphone level, the mic level signals, which is very, a very small signal. And of course I touched base this on this a few seconds ago, the house sound system. When I refer to it to your house sound system, this is all the components that make up your PA systems. This includes the speakers on your ceiling or sidewalls, the microphones on your pulpit, the main power amplifier, the mixers, compressors, limiters, all that stuff. Some of this, for some of you, it may be installed in a nice rack. Others, it may be like my church, it's kind of stacked up in a corner and then surrounded by a bunch of 1982 Himmels. So whatever it is that takes the audio from either from the pulpit or wireless microphones and takes that audio and fills the worship space. Another term is a tip ring sleeve or TRS plug and or jack connector or a TS. And the best example that I can give for a TRS plug would be the old style headphones that you may have had back in the 80s. They had a big clunky connector on them. And the reason why we call them TRS, that stands for the tip ring sleeve, the tip is generally the left channel, the ring is the right channel, the sleeve is the ground. And then you have the TS connector, which is a mono connection. And they're also called phone plugs or phone connections because these hearken back, they're not that dissimilar to the old original mob bell switchboard plugs that, you know, old-time operators would plug and unplug to make and break circuits and connect one call to another. So that's usually called a phone plug as well. And then the XLR connector. XLR connectors are basically the connections between that you would find on a microphone cable. So with that all in mind are... Oh, I had to go back. I forgot that I actually added more slides today. So we have also a thing that I, devices, two microphones that I would call crowd mics. And you can do a YouTube search on this and you'll see various scenarios where crowd mics are used. For me, it's a set of condenser microphones. Condenser microphones are microphones that are a little bit different than your regular handheld microphone that you would normally see. They're powered by the mixer, usually over a 48 volt lithium line. But they have a pretty important job. And these crowd microphones are tied directly to the broadcast mixer in two channels of their own, in the left channel and right channel. And what they do, and this is important for when we, they're important for us now and they're important for us in the future. Now they will, they're able to capture the pipe organ. And so you can use the crowd microphones presently to capture the sound coming in from your pipe organ. They're also important when we do go back into limited worship, perhaps you're in limited worship at this point, but they are definitely gonna help us when we are in full worship because they're gonna pick up the congregational responses. So in my tradition, they will say like call and response like the, for example, the call to worship or in ours in the Episcopal Church, the Lord be with you and also with you. And sometimes if you don't have those crowd mics, you hear one side of the response and not the other. And when you hear both, it reinforces the fact that folks are actually in worship and not simply just participating online. So with all that in mind, I'm gonna switch back to our slides and so we're gonna start and I'll take you step by step through how you connect all this together. And so we're gonna start with the streaming device, with the streaming computer, again, running VMIX, OBS, or Livestream Mimeo Studio. And there's two scenarios. I'm gonna start with this first one first. In this scenario, the computer, the only connection that the computer needs, the important connection is a USB type A connection. That's the common USB connection that you would find on an end of a phone drive. That's the, it's a readily available connection. It does not have to be a USB 3.0. Those are, and I'm reminded of that because I'm looking at the connection of the picture that I inserted into the slide, that it's a blue insert. That's an indication of a USB 3.0 connector. You could use a standard USB port for audio. And then after, so connected to that type A USB port, we connect the mixer, the mixer on the rear panel. And I think it's on the rear panel on most Mackey mixers, and that's the mixer that was pictured a couple of slides back. And I think if you buy a barringer mixer, I think it's on the top panel where all the controls are. That has a USB type B connection, and you connect one to the other. And when you make that connection, what you're doing is you're taking the available sound right off the main bus, and you're making that sound available digitally to the computer. So in other words, if you've ever added a sound device to your computer, like a pair of dictation headphones or Bluetooth headphones, it becomes another sound input. So the mixer actually becomes a sound card. On the input side of the mixer, and I would recommend using the microphone, one of the microphone in one of the first ones, so channel one, you would then connect the, you would start your connection back from there to your house system. But you really can't make the, you can't take a microphone, that you can't take a mixer and a channel that was designed for a mic level audio, and simply dump the audio directly and from your house PA system. It would just totally distort out. And it's one of the reasons why you wouldn't connect the house system directly to the streaming computer, because it would be, it would be, the signal would be overloaded. And that you actually wanna add, you want the mixer to be a tool so that you have more control over the sound and you can add things like those crowd mics or ambient mics. So again, output of the mixer is USB, input of the mixer is channel one on the microphone on one of the mic channels. And then from there, we add in our direct input box or DI box. Again, the DI box is responsible for taking that large level signal that has a, it's great in amplitude. And it takes a line level signal and reduces it down to mic level. The other thing that it will do is it has a switch on the device. And if I go back a couple of slides, I could show you the box actually because I have a box sitting here on the side. It has a switch for attenuation. It also has a switch for a thing that's called ground lift. And ground lift is something that you wanna do is when you have a hum. So what you will find out or what you probably are already aware of is that when you start connecting all of these devices together, you're going to get buzz. And it may come up in your headphones. It may show up on the streaming computer. It may show up in the mixer. We have one individual here that's on the call tonight where it shows up in their monitor on the monitor speakers. So what you need to do in, not in that case with a monitor, but when it's in your audio, what you need to do is you need to break the ground connection. And the DI box has a switch. They all have a switch that is called ground lift. So when you connect all this together and you're hearing a low hum and that low hum would sound like a low hum that you may have experienced back in the day if you had a old school stereo equipment and you didn't quite have things plugged in all the way. It would cause that too. As a side note, you could also get hum if you have a bad cable. So for me, it's easy. If you have hum, after you connect the house sound system to the DI to the house sound system to the broadcast mixer through the DI, connect the, hit the ground lift switch. If that doesn't work, then check your cables, swap a cable out and see if that fixes it. If you also have a hum after the fact, after you did those two steps, then contact me and we'll work through some troubleshooting steps. So again, the output of the DI box is going to, the connectors are gonna match. It's gonna be a male XLR and you just use a microphone cable between the output of the DI box and the input of the mixer. And then on the next stage, we now connect your house sound system. Now, for those folks who can, in their mind, as I'm speaking, say, oh yeah, I know exactly where the output of the house sound system is because when the sound contractors came in and installed our sound system, our new sound system that was installed, they included a, like a tape out, so tape recorder out, auxiliary out, and they put it like right there on the front panel, like it made a customizer and the church, I'm thinking of the St. Paul's Lutheran church and he's long enough, they have that. That's great, but the reason why I didn't identify the actual output on the church PA is that it may vary, your PA, you may be using a portable PA system that you're using for drive up worship or drive in worship, in which case, that will have a different type of connector on it. Your PA also may be old enough where it does not have an output, and in which case, please contact me and we could do a Skype call, we could do a Zoom call and I can help you out as much as I can using those types of ways to connect in our virtual times, seeing that I can't presently come to churches because of COVID-19 restrictions. So again, for the house sound system, look for tape out, look for recording out, look for an auxiliary out, it may or may not be stereo, so it may have one connector or two connectors, and it could be, again, it could be TRS, it could be that quarter inch phone plug or it may be a XLR balanced. Most likely it's going to be a connector that is TRS, that's quarter inch. So with all that in mind, some of you may be saying, well, I have, we already purchased a mixer and it doesn't have USB out, how can we connect this going forward, how can we best connect our mixer? And that is to use the main output, as you can see there on the broadcast mixer, it's a left TS and a right TS, so it's two quarter inch outputs and they do sell at Guitar Center, they do, and by the way, the DI box is available at Guitar Center, I'm not getting paid by Guitar Center. And in fact, if you have your own place that you frequent and a buyer thinks from my, beyond means continue doing that, but a lot of this stuff can be purchased locally. So with that in mind, the left and right TS to eighth inch TRS stereo is something that they, cables are something they sell at Guitar Center, it's made by HOSA, H-O-S-A, HOSA cables. And you will be plugging the left and right connectors from the main out directly into the blue eighth inch stereo TRS. And for some folks, when they, when you do connect that, just be aware that if you have a newer computer, as soon as you connect your, that cable into the back of the computer, you will probably get prompted. You just plugged in a connector. What is it? And I choose line, you choose the line connector or line input. If you are using a laptop, and I know I've hit this, I hit this the first time myself when I was the tech lead, halftime position for the brain injury alliance of Connecticut. And we had a person who was brought their laptop in to do some recording of a couple of our brain injury specialist training for some folks who couldn't make the conference. And so we're set up in Hartford Hilton and they hand me the laptop and the laptop has one connector on it. It's not black or it's not blue. It's not green. It's black. And I immediately knew that that connector is a combo connector. The combo connector means it's a connector and most laptops would have this. It's a connector that is used for both a microphone, a mono microphone and a pair of headphones, a combination. So what you will need to do if you have that type of connector, they have a splitter. They have a splitter that will split the audio into two different jacks. One plug into the side of your computer. And that'll have a, it'll be tip ring ring sleeve. So there'll be four conductors on that connector. And they'll, and that'll go into a Y where one input will be the headphones where you can ignore any other one will be the line input. Note that in that scenario, you will not, that connection will not give you a stereo input. If you want a stereo input, you will, I mean it'll work. But if you want a stereo input, you will need to use the USB method showing about four or five slides back. So, let me see if I have any more slides here. I don't think I do. Nope. So at this point, that's all I have in terms of laying out the architecture that kind of builds the base, not only for connecting what you need to connect now, but also adding microphones, again, adding those crowd microphones and the stereo mics in later to pick up your congregation. Or now, if you have a fair bit of recording to do of your organ, which is I'm, you know, we're a week out of, a little over a week out of, before we celebrate Thanksgiving. And I know some of you are planning, like how do I record our piano? How do we record our, you know, your person who may be coming in with acoustic guitar, those road and road and five mics, which look like this. This is what a box of road and fives and they're matched pair. I believe they're $200 or they're $100 a piece. They come with the adapters and the microphone clips, which is really cool. They're really good, really good quality and they're affordable. I recommend them. We're currently running those at, again, I'm a Episcopalian. So we're running those at Christchurch Cathedral. We're running them in Longmeadow, East Longmeadow and in Westfield. So with good results. So at this point, I think we will turn it over and, oh, and they also come, excuse me, just thought of it. They also come with this bridge. If you can buy the bridge separately and you can connect your microphones up that way in a stereo pair. So you don't have to use two microphones down. So with that in mind, let us switch. I know I've been doing a lot of talking. Let's switch to Q and A. So Eric, the question came, somebody sent the question to the two of us about whether you would share your slides after this is over. We could post those on the website along with the recording of this. Yeah. And my next, I'm gonna, and again, this is news to Tiffany. So this is, what I like to do is make a follow-up video or webinar on how to bring in those wireless, bring in those microphones from the piano, from the crowd mics. So you can record, record your selections for your choir. Because we had a meeting today and that's one of the things that I heard. You know, I made a note for myself that folks need help with that. So if people have questions, you're welcome to type them in the chat window or if you wanna just talk, you can raise your hand and I can unmute you. There should be a raise your hand button. And at the same time, what I'll do is I will put up, well, I'll put up at the end, I'll put up my contact information, including my telephone number and my email address. So do we have questions, comments, just, general, oh my gosh, what do we do now kind of things? Let's see. So Peter and Mark both have their hands raised. So here comes Peter. Hi, Eric, thank you for that. That was very helpful to see it all laid out like that instead of trying to understand it over the phone. The thing that I think that we don't have in my church is the DI box. Could you just tell me what that is again? Sure. Explain what the, because I think this also has to do with the buzz in the monitor problem, if I heard you explain it correctly. So would you tell me what that is and what? Yeah, so the, I thought I'd cover that, sorry if I'm talking in a busy minute. So the DI box, again, the one I recommend is from Radial Instruments. It is a pro, they make two versions, they make one that's a pro DI and one that is pro DQ, DQ is for posterior. What that box does is it reduces, it's a volume reducer, level reduces. And it'll reduce line level audio coming out of the, out of your PA system, which comes out pretty hot. That's a terminology in the audio world. It comes out pretty hot. And it reduces that level down to a more manageable level. And it also provides isolation. So, Tiffany, if you can lower the volume, I'll expand my screen again. Oh, yeah. Frequently, I should have included this in the slide, but it has this transformer inside. And that transformer inside provides isolation to a point. So it, and what that does is it, it reduces hum, it reduces ground loops and again, it gives you that opportunity to lift, to lift the ground if you are having those problems. It also gives you additional attenuation. So the unit will have, I'm gonna should have made a slide of this. It will have another, it'll have two sets of switches, one on one side for the ground lift and the one here on this side where they'll give you additional attenuation. So even if you put this in place and the audio is still coming into your mixer too hot, too loud, you can drop it more. I know that there is a cheaper version of this, not a big fan of it, that they, I'm trying to think of the brand name, they sell the guitar center. Forgive me if I sound like a broken record. I think it's, I don't know, it's their house brand, but their house brand has a four, it has a three level selector. So it actually gives you even more attenuation and it's cheaper than the, in the radio. But it's not that great at providing isolation. Did that answer your question, Peter? Cause I know I might. I think so. Cause I think that we solved our major problem with, by adding the broadcast mixer next to the house mixer, I think that'll solve the sound problem. I just haven't solved the buzzing problem yet. Okay. And I just don't know if I should go out and do this. So another thing for you to try, cause I know, so in full disclosure folks, I've been talking to Peter this week, which is wonderful. I know you've had the problem with the HD, when you plug in unplugged HDMI cable, what you may want to do is unplug the connection to the PA and see if that, you know, with the monitor connected. Yep. See if then it goes away. If it then goes away, if you don't hear the buzz through your, through the speakers of your monitor, through the HDMI cable anymore, then you know you're getting a ground loop through that audio cable from your house system. Well, that was a long sentence. Okay. I think I got it. I'll try it. Thank you. Give me a call. So we also have Mark Miller has a question. So Mark, I'm letting you unmute if you'd like to ask your question. Hi, Mark. Yeah, that's great. Eric, thank you so much for the help here. Yeah, the question I had was perfect that you actually called on Peter first cause mine's more or less a follow up on his. So if you can get the home from the ground loop, is there any downside to always doing the ground lift on the DI box? Good question. I've, when I'm lazy, I'm just like, I just, you know, I don't want to deal with it later. Just hit the lift button. In some situations, if you hit the lift button, you will get home because you're lifting the ground. That's actually shielding. You know, remember ground is, think of it the ground as the ground in your car. The ground in your car is the return path for the 12 volts system for the electrical system. So the know if you have a bad connection to the frame of your car to that ground, things don't work correctly. So yeah, it may be tempting to just hit the ground lift button, especially, you know, when you're dropping DI boxes all over the place and just say, I'll deal with it, you know, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna nip it in the bud. But what you may do is actually introduce hum into the situation if there is, if the product that you're plugging, if the two products that you're plugging into are have input and output circuitry that is properly isolated. And that's the difference between, I hate to say it, but that's the difference between like a soundcraft mixer. Well, actually it's not even dependent on that. I mean, a lot of it has to do with the building wiring. And I know that church wiring, some of it can get pretty old and it's pretty up there. So I'm not gonna tell you how many DI boxes we have at St. Mark's church or at my husband's church here where I'm actually joining you tonight from his prayer room because of, you know, knob and tube wiring, you know. So yeah, it will be tempted to just, you know, hit the ground lift button, you know, you can try it. Yeah, so that path may actually be giving you the ground you need. Ground you need. Gotcha. Okay. That was my question. Thank you so much. The ground loop is, is that when the, it's, it especially happens, like folks when they, when it happens in churches and it happens like for conferences, when they have one thing plugged in up here and they have another thing plugged in the back of the, you know, I'm thinking like, you know, think of your last conference you went to and there's a big ballroom and there's a, you know, million outlets all over the, over the room and those outlets are on two different branch circuits. In other words, they're, they're handled by two different circuit breakers. And that's where you start getting current buildup in the ground system. And that's where you get ground loops. All right. Very good. Thank you. So I don't see any other hands raised. Does anybody else have something they want to come on and ask or type something in the chat? And if I can just interrupt. Yep. Have hum. And again, if the ground lift didn't work, always swap out the cable because you may have a bad cable. Also, one thing that I hit at Christ's church cathedral, no line. I bought from, I bought from Amazon because it was, you know, they could, they could drone it to the, they could drone it into the sacristy of the cathedral, you know, in 24 hours. I bought a pair of my cables, HOSA. And online, they looked like HOSA cables. And I got them and they were, the packaging was a little different. You know, it's the, you know, it looked a little often the quality, the indication of a good mic cable is that the jacket of the mic cable feels rubbery. So I got these out of the box and they didn't feel, they felt really weird. I connected them up for an event we had about two years ago. And no kidding, I was picking up a radio station and it was over, it was, it was on a, it was on a pair of M, it wasn't pair of M5s it was a pair of condensers that we had connected to a piano. And, you know, you mute the, you know, every, the mixer has, you know, the broadcast mixer will have mute buttons and you hit the mute and the radio station goes away and you mute it and you get to hear a commercial and some talk radio, I think it was AM and, you know, I'm thinking, wow. So the, my advice would be is to, you know, if you have home, swap the cable first if you have one just like land there, you know, hit the button and if that doesn't work, swap the cables. And if you hear, if you hear interference like a radio broadcast, get rid of the cables because that's what I had to do. You know, this is something that, you know, I made a recommendation for the church to purchase this, you know, list of equipment they did and I came in to install it and I ended up going out to the van and, you know, grabbing my tote out of my kit and grabbing two of my cables. So we have another question from Carol Manahan. So Carol, if you would like to unmute and speak, talk, you should be able to. You're about 10 steps ahead of us. We are still worshiping on Zoom but we're in the process of planning what we need to get for when we go back to the sanctuary. We haven't really got the sound right on Zoom even but so I don't know if you know anything about that but it sounds like the equipment, I mean, we have a sort of a vintage sound system and it sounds like the things that we'll need to add in will be just about all of the things that you named at the beginning. We've got a computer, a mixer, a DI box and various cables to go between them. Does that sound right? Yes, and I can, again, if you email me, I can list the recommended, the recommended equipment list that you would need. Okay. Now just a step, now to take a step back, in Zoom, are you using your laptop for Zoom and how far away from the streaming device are you? Because there is a, I'll let you answer that question first. I don't know what you mean by streaming device. How are you getting, how are you connecting with your congregation on Zoom? How is the pastor or worship leaders doing that? The worship leader sort of manages it all at his house and his wife is also the musician. So he does have a mixing board and he uses his laptop sometimes they'll prerecord music on the organ at church, sometimes it will be live. Okay. Oh, good. Live piano, so what I, So I guess my comment would be, if you need help with your current setup. Well, we still, often this music still doesn't sound that good. And I don't know, our tech person isn't really an audio person at all. He's a software person, but you kind of have stepped in here. Sure. So I don't know. I could, the best advice I can do is give you my, I'll make my contact availability available and give me a call or an email. Yeah, okay, great. Thanks. Yeah, I mean, it is, I mean, we learned right away that you can't just do live music on Zoom. You have to vary some of the settings. And so we've done that and gotten better microphones and so on, but there's still, and sometimes I think it's just the internet connection too. So it's hard to know. Right. Yeah, not seeing the setup. Right. You know, I couldn't tell you, you know, what you may need or not need. I mean, in our session here, I connected, I had a pleasure connecting with Peter Johnson, who's on the call tonight. He can tell you, we've walked. Yeah, well, I might just, I might just have, I might just have Rosé connect you directly because he would rather than put me in between. Sure. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. I mean, I will say this. Digital ministry is, and getting to where we need to go is a marathon. It's not a sprint. When my husband's church first started live streaming, he started, you know, we got into this about eight years ago, seven years ago. It was because the matriarch of the church wanted to come to church and could not longer, couldn't do that any longer. So we started with like an old, you know, standard definition camcorder that was, you know, banging around the, I think it was propping some books up, you know, in a closet. And we used what we had. So know that it's a, you know, now they have a whole PTZ system and whatnot. But, you know, it was a journey and it was an over the learning process. And, you know, as we, as we traverse this journey together, we all learn. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I think it's been pretty amazing what we have been able to do. Oh yeah. And some people have been able to come who wouldn't otherwise be there. So that's been really wonderful. Yeah. But we do, I mean, it could be another year before we go back, given what's happening in California right now. So when we've gone back to purple zone and, you know, closing everything down, but at some point we will, and we won't want to give up the digital side of things for those people who couldn't come. Right. That's the hope. Yeah. Yeah. So we do have another hand raised. Jim Thomas, and then there's a couple of questions in the chat. Okay. I'm going to unmute you, Jim. And then Eric, I don't know if you could read while you listen. Tiffany and Eric, thank you very much for this. This is really helpful. I'm much in the same place as the last person to post question. We're still, I'm zooming from home and also Facebook live streaming at the same time. And then downloading the Zoom content and then uploading it to a YouTube channel so that folks can see it during the week and then resaving it in a 30 frame per second view so I can upload it to the local cable access channel which shows it three times a week. So we're trying to hit all the places we can. And what we learned really early was we made a little bit of investment in capital. I got an upgraded microphone. I got an upgraded HD camera from my desktop at home. And then we also upgraded the internet speed that we had which made a significant difference because it was the upload speed that was killing us not the download speed. And then we also have a complete worship deck in PowerPoint which runs through the whole worship service. So we've got that and that's going pretty well but what you're talking about tonight really is like the next step for us getting back to at least, because I can't do anything from the sanctuary right now. There's just no capability for that except to like drag my laptop in there and it would sound and look terrible. And so we've got to make an investment to get to the next step. But so this is sort of preparatory work for me just to sort of think about what we have to do to do that. And so it's really helpful. So I don't have really a question per se other than just sort of let you know that you know that we're all on different places on the spectrum here. And what we're doing is working pretty well but really the goal is to get back in the sanctuary whether there's worshipers there or not. And this is really helpful in terms of helping us figure what we need just to get started with that. So thanks. No, Brian, you're quite welcome. And know that there will be follow-up sessions to this and follow-up video to this. There's another similar comment that was sent to us in the chat from somebody else saying, you know, we're doing okay with Zoom but returning to the sanctuary and trying to live stream as a whole other that churches are trying to navigate. And then I also see a question here from Phil. Eric, you noted that Mackie Boards are and we are looking into one. How many channels would you recommend? So in Channel Count, I didn't get, I skipped over to Channel Count. I had notes but I just kind of didn't use my notes. So what I recommend for future-proofing is you add up all of your the pulpit, the selector. And I'm giving you a pissable ease here but, you know, all the microphones that you have that are, you know, hardwired to, you know, that you use the wireless mics, you know, add all those together that you normally would use and then leave yourself additional channels for an additional stereo channels. So in other words, whatever I'm telling you in terms of Channel Count, double. So if you have one piano, there'll be two microphones. If you have a guitarist, two microphones. So if you want to, at least it's my belief that broadcasting and stereo gives the best experience for people. So again, microphone count, add up all your microphones that you currently have. And then with that, and even though you're using only one channel right now that's coming off of your main PA, you wanna, this is just the first webinar. So what we're gonna talk about later is how to bring all the rest of those channels independently in so that you can create a separate mix. So ultimately what you're doing, the advantage of having a broadcast mixer versus trying to mix everything on your board that's attached to your church, the church PA, is that you wanna separate mix. The mix that you're using on your house system is being used for a different type of mix. You're mixing for reflections and sound absorption. You have delay and all that. And so people in house are gonna hear things a little differently than what they're gonna hear online. So you can't take the mix that you mix for your house system and just dump it online because it's gonna sound all over the place. So having that rule of thumb of having, do a channel count of how many devices you have and then take that and add for what you like to record for guitars and for organ and that sort of thing in addition to the crowd mics. And I purposely don't use, I always go to the microphone level input because I wanna save those line level inputs which are the line, those line level inputs the inputs that are off to the right side of the board. You wanna save those for line level. Like if you have keyboards and that sort of thing you can actually patch them in directly into the board. So there's another question in the chat. Okay. Do you differentiate between streaming and on demand? Meaning is there any post-production work done with a stream recording before you share afterward? No. Not generally, no. So and that's, I think that's just coming from our tradition and how we kind of do not be a possible tradition but the how we do things in at St. Mark's. There's a lot, we do have some prerecorded. So we are, so at this point our church is closed. So we, but we do have a core broadcast team that's about 12 people and they rotate in and out each week, but they, but we also have singers that come and do live, we do live singing but there's large enough and we don't have pews that are attached to the floor. So we can take all of the chapel chairs that we have in our church and push them up against the wall in space, everybody out 20 feet apart. So we have some live and we have some prerecorded that is injected via V mix. That's what we use at St. Mark's. And we just switch back and forth through the whole course of the service. And if you wanna see what that looks like, you could go to St. Mark's on Facebook, St. Mark's. In Springfield, right? East Long Manup. East Long Manup, sorry. I'm thinking there's more than one St. Mark's if people are looking. That's true. So I think we've gone through our questions and we're getting close to an hour, but we wanted to let you all know that we will make the slides available from this and the recording available from this. Eric is working on adding more resources to our website so we'll keep adding as much of this information as we can. We are looking to, we've added to our database a new designation for folks called Tech Deacons. And our intention is to put together a mailing list of the folks who are working on all this stuff so that we can invite you to come into community with one another, to come into Zoom offerings or what have you that Eric will bring together. So we're gonna plan to put all of you on that list and if you would rather we don't, then you can let me know. You should have gotten the email with my email address through Zoom with your link for tonight. So if you don't wanna hear anymore about this, let me know otherwise we'll put you on that mailing list. Right. And if you, the advantage of being on that list is that you hear when we're gonna drop video and webinars. So. And we need you Eric to put your info in the. Yes, I'll get somebody can copy it. So I don't have it off the top of my head. I will switch my cameras around here. Thank you for the reminder Tiffany. Yeah. So, and thank you all for being here. Thank you so much. Tomorrow at 11 o'clock, the bridge conference ministers, Don Remick and Marilyn Kendricks are going to interview Eric about his new position and some of the work he's been doing. So you all got to meet him first. The rest of the conference gets to meet him tomorrow. That'll be on Zoom at 11 tomorrow and streamed to Facebook. So you can watch it there. Can everybody let me spotlight that so that it's bigger. Cool. So Eric's email address and phone number. Don't ask me sound questions. Definitely send them to him. Cause I can't help. And don't ask me print media or communications question. All right. So thanks everybody. Thank you all for joining us. Thank you so much. And again, if you have questions, do not hesitate to reach out. So I think with that, we'll end this. Everybody have a good night. Yep. Take care. Be safe. Bye bye.