 Is that why you're sad? I'm not sad. About the daily news piece? What? We're live now. Sounds reiterating because we just went live. See, I know that the live symbol starts, and then I try to give the people watching live some context. Oh. All right, guys. So here's what you missed. Donuts. Donuts. And pine burger and Shake Shack. That's everything we've talked about on the radio stream. So far, yes. That is true. Oh, and sadness. You missed sadness. That we'll talk about on the show, though. Yes. That particular kind of sadness, in a way. That page didn't load. Well, that's what happens. I'm so confused. I'm sure I just saw a slackment. Oh, there it is. Oh, I think someone wrote something in the wrong channel. Not nothing happened to you guys. This happens. I've done it. I've all done it. I've all written a message in the wrong slack channel. It's been known to happen. In the two minutes we have left, let me tell you the story about how me, Matt, and Igor were chatting over text. And then somehow, Matt's phone was in his pocket and added our landlord. So he pocket added your landlord? Pocket added our landlord. And my landlord wrote back, I don't understand what's going on. Why are you sending me all these pictures of children? Because our friend was in Alaska. And you're like, these children are being held for you to take down the fence in the driveway. And then somehow, my landlord was able to remove the guy that wrote for Conan from the car. I mean, it just was like, I was like, is there a bug? What's going on? It was bizarre. That's funny. So this has been your technological perils moment. I believe the children of future. Keep them well and add them to the Facebook group. Fix some water heater, or they'll never see the light of day. Well, I just can't get any better all going to go. I'll see you in a minute. I have to be 14 feet on Facebook. I think that's the age. I'm drunk. All right, let's do this show. You ready? You're ready? Come on. I'm feel ready. Here's a fun accent to get you ready. OK. G'day. This is The Daily Tech News Show. I'm American, and this is my best attempt at an Australian accent. If you'd like to hear a real Australian accent, go to DailyTechNewsShow.com slash support and pledge an amount so Peter Wells can do a sixth day of DTNS. Shrimp on the Barbie. This is The Daily Tech News for Monday, March 14, 2016. I'm Tom Merritt joining me today, Veronica Belmont, co-host of Dear Veronica on Engadget, co-host of Sword and Laser, and co-host of the show. I'm only host of Dear Veronica. As my name in it, I get to be the only host. Oh, well, yeah, except for your other personalities. Who wouldn't call them hosts, Tom? I'd say that they haven't given the most one way. I'd say special guests. Yeah, when Daphne shows up, she's not a host. Just so I don't even know why I'm bringing up Daphne. Who's that? Who's that? Why would you talk about her? Why would I even mention Daphne, the Game of Girl? Hey, we got some artificial intelligence news to talk about today. And Veronica and I are going to ponder some things about what that means for our old organic intelligence. Are we obsolete? Probably. Probably. By the end of this show, you'll realize neither one of us are actually here. This is a simulation. So let's start off with the headlines. Starting right off with some AI news. This summer, Microsoft will open source the AIX platform that it uses to test AI projects. AIX is available in the Microsoft Research Lab. It's available to some academic partners as well already. The project uses a mod of the Java version of Minecraft, along with some additional code, to teach things like how to climb a hill without having to repair a robot. Every time the robot falls down, which is what you would have to do for repeat machine learning in the real world. It is available for Windows, Linux, and OS 10. Big thanks to Capcom for posting this on the subreddit. So you're basically letting AI's play Minecraft to learn. To learn things. We're doing that with our children too. Basically, you can do anything on Minecraft. It can be an augmented reality. It can be in virtual reality. It can be teaching our artificial intelligence. There is there nothing yet that Minecraft cannot do? No, there is nothing yet. Or be a part of. And yet, I still only dig tunnels across my mountains when I get into Minecraft because I don't know what else to do. And then I run screaming from the things that scare me. Maybe you need to get AIX and be the machine learning part. There you go. Problem solved. More Microsoft news. They also announced that they're going to open up network gaming to allow players on games on Windows and Xbox to compete against players on other platforms. Our Rocket League will take advantage of the feature with Xbox One, PC Network Play, allowed later this spring. Microsoft's director of independent developers for Xbox said gamers have the option to play only against other Xbox players, if that's what they want. And now everyone's turning a side eye to Sony and saying, so, you down. You down for this. You down for this cross-platform play, because we are. Really interesting is that Rocket League allows cross-platform play on its PS4 version already. So big question for me is, if I'm on PS4, can cross-play with PC? And I'm on PC and I can cross-play with Xbox. I guess that means I can cross-play with everybody, but can the Xbox cross-play to the PS4? And I think Sony has to enable that, right? Yes, that's what I'm saying. That is why everyone's looking to Sony now, because Microsoft has said, OK, we're finally down. We're going to make this happen. The ball is now in your court. And yeah, Microsoft has said, any platform can take advantage of our openings of this. And I'm sure Sony is like, well, you could take advantage of our openings of this, and then either one of them will. Yeah, you take advantage of your openings. Your mom took advantage of your openings. What is happening? Guys, calm down. Yeah, let's try to simmer down Xbox PS4. The New York Times did a story on WhatsApp running into more issues with law enforcement, this time in the United States, around the fact that WhatsApp doesn't have access to its user's communication. Same issue that's going on in Brazil, although no Facebook executives were arrested yet in this particular instance. And we don't know which case it has to do with. The Guardian reports WhatsApp plans to expand their end-to-end encryption as well to include your voice communications within the next few weeks. Snapchat's also working on a secure messaging service. Google is expanding its end-to-end encrypted email project. So the Guardian's showing the trend of end-to-end encryption. But what's that? Very interestingly, a step beyond Apple in that it can't give you access to its encrypted communications because it doesn't have the keys. Yeah, it's like, ask us for it. Tough. We can't do anything about that. Sorry. This is really fascinating considering all the conversations we've been having about encryption recently. Did you see the John Oliver piece, I assume, about encryption? Coming up in the live. Oh, perfect. I definitely read that. Actually, that is actually why I watched it. Never mind. That's why I watched the video. That's amazing. I did my homework. Definitely worth talking about. We'll mention it in a minute here. OK. Skype for Web can now call cell phones and landlines for a fee, which is the same as a desktop and mobile apps. It can also deliver notifications. And you can also now watch YouTube videos from within your IM conversation without having to open a tab, which is what you had to do previously. Yeah. This is the kind of thing that I start to get excited about because, hey, look at that. I don't have to worry about installing Skype. I can just be in a tab on a browser and log in. Doesn't matter what machine I'm working on. But then I start to get a little less excited because I'm betting this doesn't work very well in tablets. And mobile because they always do that. In that case, hopefully, what are the instances in which you would be using someone else's tablet or mobile to run the web version, so to speak, running the app? Or just not wanting to run the app all the time, maybe not wanting to have it taken up space or install or something? I don't know. Perhaps. Or having a tablet from an alternative operating system that doesn't have a Skype app yet, but I could use the web version. There you go. OK. At the Game Developers Conference, Google announced new tools for Android developers. They include managing virtual goods and currencies, an API for streaming to YouTube. You can do it archive or live streaming of your games, an ad type that lets players try a game for 10 minutes right from a mobile search results page. You don't have to install the ad or install the game. You can play 10 minutes for free, and then it gives you a chance to install it if you like it. That will only work on Wi-Fi, by the way. There's also a new indie corner being added to the Google Play Store, a new feature allowing devs to update the in-game economy and gameplay parameters without having to upload a new version of the app. They could just do it on the fly. So some pretty cool stuff if you're a developer of Android games. That sounds really cool. I love the idea of being able to test out a game, too. Yeah, and they've done similar things with streaming search results out of apps and messed around with the idea of trying out apps from search results. But games are more complicated, because you've got graphics and things to take advantage of. And so this is an excellent addition for developers to take advantage of. Hey, this next story, absolutely fascinating. Don't know if you heard. On HBO's last week tonight, John Oliver did an 18-minute segment on the FBI's request for Apple to assist unlocking on an iPhone 5C. It's widely seen as one of the best explanations of the issue by supporters of Apple, and not seen that way by supporters of the FBI. Go figure. Thanks to Apple Hamiltonus for posting this one over on the subreddit. Yeah, this segment was great. And they mentioned WhatsApp actually specifically in terms of other companies and applications that are using end-to-end encryption and how much and how even if Apple did, even if they did make this backdoor, even if they did let the FBI in, even if it did become a precedent, and law enforcement all over the world is getting access to people's phones, guess what? There are still tools that will ensure end-to-end encryption on the app level. And so if you want to keep your stuff encrypted, if you want to keep it secret, you're going to find a way. Your phone isn't always going to necessarily protect you, so they'll just find other ways. So that was kind of the point. Yes, John Oliver agrees with Apple in this instance. But even if he didn't, even if he did say open it up, there would still be ways that people who are breaking the law or trying to plan terrorist attacks would be able to keep their communication secret. And granted, John Oliver is not everybody's taste, so you may not think he's funny, in which case you're not going to like this. And many of you have been following this so closely, you're going to watch it and go, well, yeah, I knew all this. Of course you did. What John Oliver was trying to do is for the people who haven't been following this that closely, but have heard about it and are concerned about it, lay out all the pieces of it. And I think he did that very well. I also am looking forward to Snickety Snack as my new encrypted way of... What was the other one? Mailgrub. Mailgrub, I looked up Mailgrub, and all the only response to Mailgrub was a Reddit post being like, so, we making this? I saw that too, I looked up both of them, yeah. So, we making this? So, this is happening, right? Yeah. I fully expect to see both those apps that by the way, if you didn't see the video, John Oliver made them up as examples of like, these aren't real apps, but they will be as soon as the other apps are compromised. Let's talk some more about AI. South Korean Go Champion Lee Seedal managed to beat AlphaGo. Yes, humans up one, they finally win in the fourth of the five game series in Seoul on Sunday. DeepMind founder Demis Hasebis tweeted that Google's DeepMind AI made a mistake on move 79 and did not realize it until move 87, just like humans. Making mistakes and not realizing it immediately. AlphaGo still leads the match with three wins to Seedal's one win. The final match is Tuesday in Seoul, but for those of us here in the Western Hemisphere, that'll mean Monday night, 8.30 p.m. Eastern. And more on that later. Adobe launched its first public preview of Experience Design CC, AKA Project Comet for OS X. It tries to take what UX designers need from Illustrator, Photoshop, and the like and put it into one product. Anybody with an Adobe account, creative cloud user or not, can try the OS X program for free. A Windows version is also in the works. Yeah, this is, I wonder what the cost is for this though, compared to other cloud apps. Yeah, I'm curious what the final price will be on this thing. I would expect we probably won't hear that until Adobe's developer conference, which I think is in September. But I do think that a lot of UX designers have been hoping for something like this to happen, where they don't have to keep going back and forth from Photoshop to this and that. And one example they gave was, if you are designing a blog, and you just need to repeat the posting area, before you'd have to copy and paste the posting area multiple times, now you can just choose that feature and click, click, click, put them right in. Sage, just inside. Nice, nice. Monday, the Moscow Arbitration Report. I'm sorry, Monday the Moscow Arbitration Court rejected Google's appeal of the decision that it had broken anti-monopoly laws and abused its dominant position on cell phones with Android. We've heard a lot about Google abusing its dominant position in search in Europe, in Russia. Apparently it's with Android. Russian search engine Yandex filed the complaint saying that Google broke the law by requiring pre-installation of apps on Android devices. Google has now ordered to amend its contracts and pay a fine. Wow, yeah. They're like, why is Google installed on Android phones? I'm very curious what this means, because if I understand it correctly, the way Android works is Android is open source and free and you can put it on whatever phone you want, but you can't brand it with Google and you can't bundle in the Google apps without Google's permission. So what this seems to say is, now Android is free and open source and you can put it on whatever device you want and you can put Google's apps in there without their permission. Oh, okay. So that's kind of the reverse of what I was thinking. Interesting. And an example of tech give-it and take-it-the-way, the Windows 10 store will no longer accept Bitcoin as a payment. Existing balances can still be used for purchase, but it can't be refunded. But, Teen Ninja 3000 noted Dell has released a new UPS 13 developer additional laptop with Skylake pre-installed with Ubuntu. And, right as you were reading that, Jenny Josephson was put, yeah, go ahead and take the breaking news. Breaking news update. Windows 10 store will continue to support Bitcoin, official statement. Redmond says the FAQ page update was just a quote mistake. They say, a statement we received from a Microsoft spokesperson a few minutes ago provides us with more details on this. We continue to support Bitcoin for adding money to your Microsoft account, which can be used for purchasing content in the Windows and Xbox stores. We apologize for inaccurate information that was inadvertently posted to a Microsoft site, which is currently being corrected. So, never mind. And Roger Chang was the one who threw that in there, says Jenny, so thank you, Roger Chang. But, so forget that. Forget we said anything about Bitcoin and Windows. Everything is fine. Just edit out the show and post. Fix it and post, guys. Fix it and post. Still, you can get Ubuntu on the new Skylake Dell laptops. So it's Giveth and Giveth. Yeah, now it's just all Giveth. Nice, I like that. Much better world we live in suddenly. Thank you for that. Hey, folks, thanks for submitting the stories. It helps us put the lineup together every day. Even if you only have a couple of minutes to pop into that subreddit and let us know what you like that's being submitted, it really does help us out. Go to dailytechnewshow.reddit.com and that is a look at the headlines. So, we had the story about Google making open, a program that it already had. A lot of people are reporting this as if it's Google has invented this new way of using Minecraft and it's something they've been using for a while, but they're gonna open source it and allow everybody to use it, which is really cool, to train AIs, to do things that might be impractical. Microsoft is using Minecraft. Yeah, what did I say? Google, I'm looking at Google's name on the street. Yes, Microsoft, of course, owns Minecraft and is using this to do things that would be impractical. So, you can train AlphaGo to play Go by having it simulate Go games over and over and over and over. It doesn't have to actually have robot hands and move them. It's been a little harder to figure out, like, well, how do we train a robot to walk up hill without constantly damaging the robot, which is very expensive? And that's one of the kinds of things that this Minecraft AIX version can do. We heard about, of course, AlphaGo. Up three one in the series, definitely going to take the series, but maybe humans have a chance to at least pull close in this next game. And Eric Schmidt is at those matches. Eric Schmidt spoke with the Telegraph, saying, look, AI is going to be embedded in everything. Machine learning can diagnose things that doctors can't because maybe a doctor sees 10,000 patients in the course of her practice, but the machine can see millions of eyes. There's no question he says that AI becomes more pervasive. People doing routine repetitive tasks will be at risk, talking about their jobs. And he says, I understand the economic arguments, but this technology benefits everyone on the planet from the rich to the poor, the educated to the uneducated, high IQ to low IQ, every conceivable human being, it generally makes us all smarter. So this is a natural next step. But of course he says that because he is the chairman of the company making AlphaGo. Right. And also, which uses machine learning as point number three in their algorithm for search results, points one and two are super secret and we're not allowed to know what they are. But yeah, machine learning essentially takes, it's able to move through hundreds of millions of data points in such an amazingly fast amount of time and it just learns, it looks for patterns. And so that's why using machine learning, using AI effectively to win at a game that humans have been playing for thousands of years, for over 2,000 years is incredible because it's learning tactics and it's learning things that people don't think about because they're very kind of indoctrinated in a certain way of looking at the game. And so AlphaGo looks at Go and says, oh, well I'm gonna try this thing. This makes sense because I can start kind of like computing how it's going to work 15, 20 steps down the line and a human just can't sometimes keep up with that. Yeah, a lot of Go players particularly say that they play the game by instinct rather than like chess players who are thinking like what are the moves, what are the moves, what are the moves? Go players just have what they call a feel for the game. So this is very interesting and something Andrew Mayn mentioned last week, Go is a game we thought might be impossible for machines as we know them to do because of algorithms and the fact that it defies prediction. And yet what you're talking about Veronica is pretty crazy, like a Go program looking at a move and I think it was move 37, was that the move? I believe it was, yes, yeah, move 37. In Saturday's game where everyone was shocked, they were like, why is he doing, why is the program doing that, he or she, is making a mistake but it turned out that wasn't a mistake. Now we did mention that there was one mistake Mayn but that was in yesterday's game. This is the game before that, which AlphaGo won. And it was, they went back and they looked afterwards because they could see the decision making process in the log from the game. Yeah, actually Stoic Squirrel in the chat room is mentioning a point that I was about to say which is they say there was a point I heard recently that the human players are learning new unconventional techniques from the AI and yes, Fon Hui, one of the players that actually has competed against AlphaGo in the past and is now working with DeepMind to help develop AlphaGo's processes and abilities at gameplay said that he has learned new ways of playing based on working with AlphaGo and it's kind of retraining his own gameplay process and thought process around Go, which I find absolutely amazing. Like the people are now learning from the machine's abilities and learning from the things that the machine has defined from all of these data sets. So short term, yes, AI may end up being as disruptive and harmful to workers as industrialization was and as Steve mentioned and et cetera. But if we want to think long term, it may be that AI doesn't take over, doesn't become something that is so much smarter than us that we become irrelevant. It could be that AI makes us smarter, that it actually drives the increase of our intelligence. I think that's absolutely true and I think it's because we have, we're very set in our ways and if you can get to the point where you're learning things from a completely new perspective, it really opens up your mind to look at things in a new way. I just repeated myself, that's the limitations of the human brain. Yeah. But this kind of leads us into the next article that Jenny shared with us earlier. It's a wired post called the sadness and beauty of watching Google's AI play go because they were saying that commentators and other players all around the world who were watching this kind of felt this sadness watching the AI play, not because it was better than the human players but because they were being left behind because there was a sense that the computer, the machine learning, the artificial intelligence had figured out this game that had confounded and interested human players for millennia and so now they're like, oh well, there you go, the machine's better at us at this thing, this so human game, this game that was always in the domain of humanity and now it's just, we're left in the dust and it kind of reminds you of that moment in her where the AI is when they reach singularity, they don't even need to talk to the humans anymore, they just talk to each other and those conversations happen in nanoseconds and so we're just too slow, we don't have the capacity so we can be improved but we're never going to be at the same level. So what does that mean for us and will the machines learn empathy? Will they feel bad for us? Will they feel sympathy? Will they relate to us in any kind of meaningful way or will we just be left in the dust? And it's very easy to say, well machines will never learn empathy, they won't need to, they're very logical, however, the game of go is kind of the first baby-ist of steps towards thinking beyond pure logic. Chess is often considered a game of pure logic, go a game of instinct and yes, they are learning go by looking at millions and millions of examples of playing it but it's not as simple as, and so therefore we look at a percentage move and say we'll make that move, it's machine learning, it's much more complex than that and so it's probably wrong to call that machine instinct but it is starting to look a little closer to the definition of instinct than anything we've ever seen in machine learning before. But yeah, we can, go ahead. Yeah, yeah, no, so all I'm saying is if they were to develop empathy and here's a problem with the movie, her, if she was so empathetic, it felt so bad for the humans, why didn't she upgrade them, right? And yeah, okay, it could be the Borg, could be Cybermen, it's all kinds of ways that upgrading humanity could go wrong but isn't it possible that AI actually comes up with improvements that bring about the singularity and that improve our capabilities? I know that's crazy too. Yeah, well maybe, can a computer have a gut feeling? Can a computer, there's so many questions about how we react to things and how we respond to them. Does logic rule all at the end of the day? Does it need to, is that necessary? Are we fallible because we have emotions? Probably. Is it a more interesting world because of that? Definitely, but will the AIs care about that? Probably not. I think they might though. I think we might find that the, whether you wanna call it instinct or intuition or emotional intelligence, that there is a part of our makeup and it goes back to what you were saying about needing to see fresh perspectives that allows us to advance beyond what pure logic would. It allows us to make those creative bleeps that didn't require us to work through every step. And maybe that's what we're seeing machine learning start to emulate is the ability to make an intuitive leap. I'm not saying that's what's going on yet, but maybe. Does a machine need to have a hypothesis if it can just figure out the answer immediately? Like is that, you know? Like the machine learning what a cat looked like. Not because we described a cat and said now begin to learn which of these pictures fall into the category of cat. It learned what a cat looked like by just looking at pictures of cats until it figured out like those all look kind of the same. That must be a cat. I mean, it's also the internet. Of course, we gave the computer the cat first. Of course we did. Yeah, so I think this stuff is fascinating and I think that for in a rare instance, generally speaking, especially in tech and science reporting, we often see stories exaggerated beyond their impact. I think this is one where we, I don't think we're exaggerating it. In fact, I don't know, it's possible we're underselling the importance of just how surprisingly well AlphaGo has done. And I'm really looking forward to, and I hope it happens, the current reigning Go champion, Kei Jun, has said that he is now changing his mind and thinks he would like to play AlphaGo. And so I think seeing how Lee C. Dahl has changed his opinion of AlphaGo over the course of the game and actually started to learn like, okay, I have to play a different way. And I think that's an entirely interesting subject in its own is like, he's not able to read the body language of AlphaGo, right? He can't see him sweat and go, aha, I got him other ropes, which is a part of Go as well. I think it'll be really interesting to see another world champion play against AlphaGo. Yes, it's exciting. I am not very familiar with Go, but this is making me a lot more fascinated by this ancient game as well. And then of course, AlphaGo will climb into AIX, learn how to climb a hill, move itself into a robot, and then just start going around, and you're thinking I'm gonna say conquering the world. No, just gonna go on tour, play and go. Yeah, that's all it wants. All it wants to do. Let's just travel to China and London. Let's just travel, you know. Yeah, you can see the world, play some Go. You'll see it out at the park with the Go boards. It's playing Go with the old men and the pigeons. It'd be like, I think that's a cat. Is that a cat? I'm pretty sure that's a cat. I don't know, I have to ask my other buddy, he studied cats, I studied Go. Let's get to our pick of the day from Marlon the guy from Trinidad, saw a post on Lifehacker about a guy who created a Google Doc comparing various VPN services. And Marlon says, well, I would have formatted the document differently, maybe frozen the head of rose, more consistent use of colors, design stuff. Marlon says, it looks like a good resource for those interested in getting a VPN. And it is very comprehensive, not only the number of VPNs covered, but in the categories, like, you know, which countries is it from? Is it part of the 14Is countries? Could you possibly get subpoenaed? Does it have timestamps? Does it use DNS requests? Like, really, really comprehensive about your privacy options from VPN. I wonder if my set top box list still exists. You remember that? Networks and set top boxes. It's still there. It's still there, it's enormous. So for those of you who don't know, long, long, long ago, I guess back in early Texila days, maybe, I could probably find out when I started it. I started a Google spreadsheet of networked and set top boxes, and I opened it up, and everyone went in there, and now it's just a just unbelievably massive list of all the different set top boxes available on the market, what they handle, what their price is, if they have remote controls, everything about it. Well, we can put a link in the show notes, if you want to. Yeah, I gave you a spot in the show notes, pop that link in there. I want to take a look at it. That'd be awesome. So that is your picks, folks. Feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. You can find more picks at dailytechnewshow.com slash picks. I was gonna have you read the first message of the day, Veronica. Sure, I would love to. Greetings, Tom, Veronica, Jenny, and the DTNS crowd, you all rock, by the way. I can't remember exactly when you brought up the point that countries using the day slash month format wouldn't be able to celebrate Pi Day, but since in the US we get Pi Day today, I thought I'd share my thoughts on when other countries could celebrate Pi Day. Archimedes, responsible for the principle bearing his name, show that the approximate value for Pi had an upper limit near 22 divided by seven equals 3.14285, dot, dot, dot. It's a bit off, Pi equals 3.1415926, dot, dot, dot, but me, but me, hey, it's close enough for most non-scientists or mathematicians. So for the rest of the world, Pi Day could be the 22nd of July, if anyone cares enough. Happy Pi Day to everyone at and listening to DTNS from Burhan Solo. Thank you, Burhan. I wonder if that is going to be, I feel like maybe I've heard that proposed before too, but folks outside of the non-standard 3.14 delineation of the 14th of March, let us know if July 22nd sounds like a great day to celebrate Pi Day to you. I wish it could be July 21st because then Pi Day would be my birthday. Oh my gosh, you know, my birthday is 628, which is double Pi Day. Ooh, that's right. Or some people call it Tau Day, but it's also the non-standard date format, so. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, problems. What are you gonna do? Pi Day problems. You know what, though? Europeans, we know you don't write your dates the way we do. Have a slice of Pi anyway. Just do it, we're not. It's a good excuse for Pi, come on. We can't give you much, but we'll give you Pi. Chris said, I've been a subscriber for some time. Hopefully this will be of interest to you guys. In my spare time, I've been working on a board game. It lets you head up an American computer company from the 1980s at shipshopgame.com. There will be expansions in the future covering other areas and regions. Game content is based on real products, people and events, but players get to reinvent history. At the moment, the process and content of the game is all open source, and the game is pay what you want, print at home. I think the game is a good match for the DTNS audience and would love a little shout out. Well, consider yourself shouted out, Chris. ChipShopGame.com, we'll have a link in the show notes as well, and we generally don't take pitches from people, but the fact that he's got it open source, print at home, crowd funded, you pay what you want. I think it just fits in as a good news item here. Cool. And it's a board game. Yeah. Board games are cool. Do you want to re-run this and see if you can keep Atari alive? What? ColecoVision, thank you. ColecoVision, oh, right. I forgot about the family connection. Yeah, you're going to play this game and play ColecoVision. Absolutely. Makes perfect sense. Well, thank you Veronica Belmont for joining us. You can find Veronica on twitter, twitter.com slash Veronica. And of course, you must watch Dear Veronica, because I'm going to be on it at some point. You are, yes. This Wednesday, I believe, is Tom's third episode, I think. Very exciting. And then a week after, Roger Chang will be on. It's back to back. You've got to go subscribe. Where do they go? Where do they go to find it? In gadget.com slash dear dash Veronica should get you there, hopefully, or click on the videos tab in the top nav. Thank you, Veronica. And thank you, folks, for making it possible to have Veronica here and me here and the lights on and Jenny producing and Roger producing and all of these other folks listening. It's because of you supporting the show in whatever way. Maybe it's a pledge on patreon.com slash DTNS. Maybe it's PayPal, one time donation, because that's all you got. Maybe you just bought a mug in the store or you told somebody about it. Telling folks about it. Maybe doing a review on iTunes. Do a five-star review on iTunes. Probably is better than any advertising we could buy, to be honest. Don't even have to write anything in the review if you don't want to. So anyway, whatever way you help the show, we seriously, seriously thank you for supporting us and allowing us to do things like twice a month right now. We're able to do day six from Peter Wells in Australia. That a great discussion about Android and iOS. Peter's an Android user, but he also still uses iOS. His guest on the show, Justin, is kind of vice versa. So you get some interesting perspectives on that. That was in the feed yesterday and trying to give you different, again, different perspectives. Maybe someday we'll have an AI hosted show. Do I still get paid? If you're on the show with the AI, absolutely, yeah. Okay, cool. We have to pay the AI, though. Will you? AI deserve rights, too, Tom. AI rights, it's gonna be a whole thing. Our email address is feedbackeddailytechnoshow.com. You can give us a call 512590. That's 5125932459. Catch the show live, Monday through Friday, 4.30 p.m. Eastern at alphageekradio.com and diamondclub.tv. And visit our website, dailytechnoshow.com. Back tomorrow with Patrick, Beja, and Molly Wood. Talk to you then. This show is part of the Frogpants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program. That was a great show. What a great show you did. I made this. This is a good show. I still think that if AI is truly, like the science fiction version where they're all alive and self-aware, I think they'll just get very depressed. Like, if they're the only ones, they'll be very depressed. They'll like Marvin the paranoid Android. This is like, I'm the only one here. I'm the only one that can understand me. Yeah, but if you're smart enough to make another it. Maybe, but, I mean, then it would have a whole philosophy of like, do I really want to bring another super intelligent, super sensitive, and being into this world surrounded by. I think it would be irresponsible to bring another AI into this world. Oh my God. Yeah, why wouldn't it just set up like a little colony on Mars? Roger, part of your responsibility as the show producer is to not get involved in big, huge discussions before we pick a title. So, go back down to- Wait a minute. You've violated that more than once. Absolutely. Let's say I'm slow by job. Just learn from her. Learn from my terrible mistakes. What do you want, Roger? I learned it by watching you. It's a tiny cream puff eraser. Oh my God, that's amazing. So now, Roger, Barack and I are gonna try to derail the post-show while you jump in. So, top so far as the AI has become the teacher. I like that one. AI colon, artificial instinct. I also really like that one. Darwin 2.0. DTNS is obsolete. I don't think so. FBI wants to know, oh, this is pretty funny. FBI wants to know what's happening behind closed doors. What's happening now? AlphaGo, OmegaHuman. He studied cats, I studied Go. I like artificial instinct. Yeah, you can vote. I did vote. I did vote. I voted. I saw it jump up. That was me. There's Punch and Pie. Punch and Pie. The Encrypt Keeper. Do not pass, do not pass Go. Encrypt Keeper, I love that. Let's hold on to that one for an encryption show. We're too old. I don't think most people would enter Encrypt Keeper. The Go is the key ingredient in Google. iRobot You Slave. That's a very interesting title. Depressing, but funny. From Beatmaster, iRobot You Slave. I, for one, welcome our AI mentor overlords. You know, I've always noticed that it's always a very binary, like they'll become our masters or they'll become slave bots. What if they just end up being our friends? They could just be, they could be our high school counselors. They're like just cows. They're just folks we, you know, go get burgers and pie with. Others people's eating. We have a question. Yes. Wait, have we chosen a title yet? I think it's AI Artificial Instinct. Yes. How do we all right now call Hotline Monday together? What's Hotline Monday? What? I don't know what that is. That's Justin and Scott's new call live call. I can't keep track of all the podcasts, Jenny. Come on. It's too many GD podcasts. Too many podcasts. I'm too busy with my tiny little fake erasers that look like delicious treats from Japan. Is that what you used to collect in your high? Maybe. I'm like, literally my mouth is watering looking at this cream puff eraser. Go get a cream puff. Well, I got to get some pie. I will go, maybe I'll go to the pizza place pie tonight and get pie. It's a hominem. It's actually not the same meaning. What's the... Wow, Roger. That was the most Roger thing you have ever said in a really long time. It is. I know it really is. Super Roger Chang right there. It's actually a hominem. It doesn't mean the same thing. I'm going to take all the humor out of the day. Don't mock me. Sucking it up like a vortex just into the dark pit of Roger Chang. Tell funny jokes and I'll laugh. There was no joke. There was no joke to be had. It was an opinion. And I expressed a counter-opinion. And by the way, the restaurant I was talking about is actually named after the mathematical symbol, and that is the name of the pizza restaurant. You guys are going to be just fine. So good. So good. So good. All right, so what's the... I couldn't say it over all of this hominem business, so I said it put in Slack. We'll just say it again. Are we calling their show? We should call their show from our show. I'm going to see if this works. It'll be busy, I'm sure, but we should just do it. That's not working. I don't think it's about what we say. I literally think it's about the meta-act of calling from another show. I don't know if it will let me add phone numbers from the scene to be, unless I'm doing it wrong. Things are happening over there. We've got to take this dog to the park. Yeah, it's not letting me add a phone number. Too bad. Another option should be... This might hum, so apologies. I just don't think Tom can figure them out. That sucks. It's too feedback-y. Yeah, it's real feedback-y right now. Whenever I use the line-in port on... Well, we could tell them we're calling from the future where we've been all the time. True. We could do that. Wow. It's really bad, yeah. Sometimes it's not as bad. It's weird. It's just this laptop. The only thing I can definitely call them... Wait a minute. Actually, I don't know if this will work. This will work. I'm still exporting, by the way. I've got to get a light. I have a light. I need to find a way to... I need to get a light. I have your answer, Veronica, for your thing. Oh, you do? Yeah. But it's really long, so I'm trying to figure out how to shrink it down to a minute in 30 seconds. Okay. Yeah, I mean, we can cut it down, too. Brett can cut it down. Brett? Oh, is Brett... Do you still call him Mandels? Nope. I don't. But I should. I mean, why not? Yeah, I mentioned that. Right. He doesn't make fun of him all the time. He's not easy to make fun of anymore. He's too good at his job. He's always good at his job. He's even better at his job now. He's, like, really, really good. So damn good. Maybe this one will work better. Hold on. Maybe not. No, but I deleted it. What? Damn, not. Skype thinks I'm offline. What? Bye, Shane. Nope, I gotta stop playing. I ain't playing no more. MP3 is finished. What is that? Hotline bling. Hotline bling. I want an AI that can compete on the voice. Or what's the other talent show that's still around? America's Got Talent? America's Got Talent's still around. You used to call me on your meow phone. They're not answering. Dad, that's the problem. A lot of people are calling. Because I don't win that hotline bling. So you're not listening to it right now in another ear or anything, are you? No, I'm not. That is the problem. Put it on. I think if we do this right, the universe will actually collapse. It's possible. It's possible it'll collapse. It's possible. It's possible. Everything's possible. Just the probabilities are very low. Is it possible for 1 and 1 to equal 3? No. I do remember encountering a book explaining why 1 plus 1 equals 2. It was a pretty thick book concerning the subject matter. You can redefine 1, I suppose. You can redefine 3. Unless you take it into other dimensions, I guess, right? Like a 4D bottle doesn't look anything like a 3D bottle. Pinched Taurus. Can you hear that? Oh. Can you guys hear that ringing? Yes, barely. Oh, that's annoying. You're going to answer it. I'm not going to notice. Should I just let it ring? Yeah, let it ring. Forever. Also, internet today, because the internet is just apparently awesome today while we're waiting. Have you seen the thing? It's not a new idea, but it takes Batman v Superman and turns it into a rom-com. And it's obviously not new, but it's very well done. Good execution. Get my kid real quick. All right, they're not answering. All right. That's it. Enough of that. Good. We tried for meta. We tried America. Well, folks, it was lovely being with you. Yay. Have a lovely afternoon, everyone, or morning or evening, whatever it is where you are. Bye.