 Hello, everyone, and welcome to Navigating the Skies, a session on leadership. And as it's the first day here at the World Economic Forum, welcome to the annual meeting of new champions, and to everyone here in the room, but also at home, watching on the live stream. That's not for me, but for our guests coming up. I'm James Chow, the editor-at-large at China US Focus, and also a World Health Organization, Goodwill Ambassador. So here today, we're here going to be talking about leadership. It's a term that's used, and I think sometimes overused in many different contexts. But what we're going to try and use this time for together is to break it down to unpack it. So we begin to understand what leadership means in our own context, our own communities, and what it could mean to all of you when you go back to your own homes after this conference. We have a fantastic, unique story, which is Samantha Freeben, who this year was promoted to wing commander in the Royal Australian Air Force. She's one of only about 40 such women in that role, and there are only 700 pilots. So she really is not only at the top of her game, but she's one of the finest of the finest in the world today. Samantha started her journey when she went on a plane trip to Hamilton Island. She was born in Victoria in Australia. And in those days, pre-911, you could go into the cockpit and see for yourself what it was like. And the pilot turned around, and he saw her, and he says, what would you like to be one day? And she said, a pilot. So please join me in welcoming pilot and wing commander, Samantha Freeben. Thank you, James, and thank you, everyone. Thank you. So when you hear the words military, pilot, and leader, are there faces that you picture? Are there people that you imagine? I wonder how many of you, prior to that lovely introduction, would have pictured somebody like me. Because I stand before you as all of those things, and yet in many of our societies, and in our cultures, and in our organisations, I would represent none of them. Imagine if you will, the story of a little eight-year-old girl in her school class when a pilot came to talk to the school about their job. They were in the military. They had these green, flying suit coveralls on, and they had these very impressive patches. And they told the class that they would fly really low and really fast, and they had travelled the world. And because they were in the military, they were an officer, and that made them a leader. And being a leader was really important. And the pilot asked the class, who here wants to be a pilot? And a number of hands were immediately raised. And the pilot looked at the class and thought, oh, there's lots of boys here. Do any girls want to be a pilot? And eventually, one very brave little eight-year-old girl raised her hand. And the pilot asked her, would you like to be a pilot? And she replied, no, it's too dangerous, and girls can't do it. And I wonder how many of you had made some assumptions, perhaps, about that little eight-year-old girl and about that pilot. That was actually only a few years ago, and I was the pilot. And I look at this little eight-year-old girl who's growing up in an Australian society, and I just marvel that my upbringing had none of those limitations. I had an incredibly supportive family. I went to a school that encouraged women to be whatever they wanted to be. And this little eight-year-old girl wanted to be a pilot. And I had that dream, and I was allowed to realize my dream. So I joined the military, and I joined the military to be a pilot because they had the fastest aircraft. And I have learned a number of lessons on leadership. And the way I've navigated my leadership journey has been through flying in the highlands of Papua New Guinea where my crew tried to sell me off as a bride. I was offered two pigs. I've learned my leadership lessons playing the crash victim for a helicopter paramedic search and rescue exercise where I was covered in prosthetic theater makeup to make it look as though I had real injuries. I've learned my lessons on leadership by flying into combat, flying in and out of hostile environments. And I've even learned my lessons on leadership, flying missions to Antarctica where we landed on a runway made of ice. And I was once told that a mile of highway can take you one mile down the road. But a mile of runway, well, that can take you anywhere. And it has. It hasn't always been smooth air. It has had some turbulence. I could fly a plane when I was 16 before I was even allowed to drive a car in Australia. And that was me with my dream. I had a dream as a little girl. I worked hard for that dream. And ultimately I achieved my dream. But it did come at a price. In the early years of my career, I found myself as a young woman in a very male dominated environment. And I stuck out. And the lessons of communication, the lessons of diversity and inclusion, and the lessons of decision making were really about to begin for me. The first one happened when I was under training and we flew a tactical mission in the C-130. It was a low level tactical mission and we flew quite aggressively and very low. And in the debrief, the load master pulled me aside and he said to me, ma'am, you can fly the hell out of that plane. It just doesn't sound like you can. And I was a little dumbfounded at the start and I asked him to please explain further. And he explained to me that, well, he's a load master. He's down the back of the aircraft in the cargo compartment. He can't see what is happening up the front. All he can do with his helmet on is hear and listen the way I'm running and commanding the crew. And he recited my crew brief to me and then he recited it again and this time his voice was lower, slower and louder. It just didn't sound like I knew what I was doing. And he was right. In that environment, my style of communication was ineffective. I was the captain of an aircraft and my crew needed to know that not just what I was saying was good, but when it comes to communication, it's how you say it. It's where you say it. It's when you say it and it's who you're saying it to. So I changed. And then I kept trying to change and fit in. Has anyone else ever felt like this? Where you know deep down who you are and what you wanna be, but your environment doesn't really let you shine. And that all changed for me in October 2002, when I was one of the first crews to fly the humanitarian evacuation mission from the Bali bombing in Indonesia. As a crew, we were called into work and we didn't know why. We chatted quite excitedly about this mysterious mission that we were going to go on. And then the news broke and the news broke to say that there had been terrorist attacks and terrorist bombs had gone off in Bali. And as a crew, we fell silent. Our mission brief had very displeasing answers to questions like, will there be more attacks? Possibly. Will we be attacked? Possibly. Will we carry weapons for self-defense? Negative. This is a humanitarian evacuation mission. And so we took off and we landed safely in Denpasar. And the sight on arrival was really confronting. If you can imagine, these people were on a beach holiday. They were wearing shorts, they were wearing singlets, they were wearing summer dresses. And a bomb had gone off that was filled with things to pierce through their bodies. The ensuing fire, it melted their hair, it melted their clothes, and it melted their skin. And it took a while for us to be able to evacuate them back to safety. But eventually, we were able to take off. And during the take-off, my navigator lent over and he held my hand. First up, I thought, oh, that's a bit weird. But I looked at his eyes and just, he was shocked, he was confused, he was sad. So we just held hands for the majority of that flight home. During our mission debrief, we sat in a circle and our executive commander conducted the debrief. And at the end, he asked the crew, would anybody here like psychological support or perhaps speak to a chaplain to overcome what you've done today? And I looked around the crew and no one did or said anything. Not the navigator who had clearly been affected by that mission, not the captain who was the leader of the crew. I was literally the most junior person on that crew and I knew I needed a lot of therapy to process what I'd just seen. So I raised my hand. And we all received the psychological support whether we wanted it or not. But that debriefing technique that our supervisor employed to not fill the silence, it allowed me to raise my hand and it allowed that the difference that I could bring could actually be a value that I could add. And there are lots of techniques like this that the military have. Another one is decision making. I was always taught that it doesn't matter what decision you make, it will be wrong a minute later because time moves forward, information changes and a decision is only as good as the moment with which you can make it. And because of that, in my environment, where time effective and efficient decision making is no more important than when you are airborne with a time critical, high pressure dynamic environment, decision making can't be left a chance. So we're taught it. It's a process and we use a framework. The framework that I like to use, I'll share with you, it's a combination of a couple but it works well for me and it's called Grady. You have to gather the information and you have to gather the information from as many people as you can. And in hierarchical organizations, in my experience, you need to start from the most junior person before you move to the most senior person. And that's because without even meaning to, the more senior person will inevitably influence an outcome or set a tone. When you review the information, have you gathered it from as many avenues as possible? Are you making a decision on behalf of a demographic that you don't represent? Have you heard their voice? Review where you've sourced your information from? You have to analyze. And a good technique in analyzing to prevent group think is to appoint somebody to be the devil's advocate who's only job in the decision making process is to pick holes in everybody else's ideas. But then somebody has to decide. And that is the role of the leader, the decision maker. And my technique with my crew to ensure they understood the decision had been made is to simply say, crew, the decision is what? You then have to set the wheels in motion to implement the decision. But one of the most important aspects because a decision is only as good as the time with which it is made is you have to evaluate it. And if the person who makes the decision can also initiate the evaluation of the decision, whether that's a minute later, a month later, a year later, then it's very powerful and humbling that you start by saying, well, this is what we did. How did it go? And if you are working in an environment like I am where there's critical time pressures or perhaps there's routine and mundane process, then you can even take decision making further by making checklists. And as a pilot, I love checklists, I live by checklists. And the beauty of a checklist is that it will make sure that in the heat of the moment, at the time when you most need that information, you aren't able to forget it. You have a checklist for that. And it means that when I find myself airborne with an engine on fire, it's actually no big deal. I can make it safe in quick time, follow my checklist. When this happens, do that. And then as a team in slower time, we can decide the better course of action using Grady. So the aspects in leadership that I've really learnt from my military experience have been communication, it's been decision making, and it's been the vital importance of diversity and inclusion. And I envisage a world where all children can have a dream, they can progress their dream, and everyone can actually reach their leadership potential. So please, as Dr. Souff said, why fit in when you were born to stick out? And let's all make sure that we raise our hands. Thank you. You look a little shy. We're gonna make sure the entire Royal Australian Air Force gets a copy of this section over here. But as we reset the stage a little bit, we can just ask one or two people what their concept of leadership is. So just in the line, what would you say leadership is, Jordan? I think leadership is really about caring and taking responsibility. Okay, Camilla, what does leadership mean to you in the line? Being responsible and setting a clarity. Okay, so a lot of human values there are ready. Samantha, let's get you back up onto the stage and we're gonna ask our other panelists to join us as well. Please welcome Arvind Satyam and also Ilona Sabha who are going to join us up here. And we're gonna look at what this really means. So Arvind, you are the manager director for Global Public Sector over at Cisco United States. What resonated for you in that? And perhaps what surprised you? Sure. So first of all, Samantha is a proud Aussie. I'm very excited to see your journey. And as a kid that loved Top Gun as a movie growing up, I'm always excited to have a prop of this in the backdrop. So it's a lot of fun. One of the things that resonates to me is when we look at flying a plane, the instrumentation and being able to take the data at your fingertips to make critical decisions is important. But it's an analogy that applies to how we live our lives. It's an analogy as to how we actually make business decisions. So if you were a mayor, if you were a CEO or a business leader, would you drive down a street without a dashboard in your car? Similarly, would you fly a plane without a dashboard in the cockpit? So if you take that analogy, I think to me one of the most important things is knowing what data you need in order to drive the outcomes that you're looking for and then having that information in real time to enable you to make that decision. And so over the past 10 years, one of the areas I've focused in my work is working with mayors on helping them become a lot more dynamic in terms of decision making. So how do they deal with catastrophic incidents? They're dealing with a lot of changes in their lives. They're dealing with what's happening in cities, with what's happening with citizens. So you've got terrorist incidents. You've got cyber attacks. You're seeing climate change. So with that as the backdrop, how can you actually leverage data to make decisions in a more dynamic fashion? But we'll come back because I think some of the long-term decisions that we need to now contend and negotiate is worth discussing separately. But you touched on data points. And Samantha, you talk so much about the importance of information, how, what, when, who you say this to. And that also brings in communication. But I want to challenge this a little bit. And Ilona Savo, you're the executive director of the Igarapi Institute, which looks at everything from cybersecurity to citizen security to smart cities to justice and development and how that all comes together. So when we talk about the grassroots, is it really just about data? Is it just about people? After all, we heard about human values, emotional bonds when it comes to responsible and caring leadership. Well, first of all, it's just a real great pleasure. And I think it's so inspiring to have women in these unusual roles. And in a way, as a civic entrepreneur, a civil society person, I also took an unusual step on working with issues that were not, I'll say, bread and butter for civil society in Brazil. So I work with violence. I work with issues that are not also women issues. So on that front, I resonate a lot. And James, I think the data point, I think we cannot do anything without data these days. We have so much knowledge. We have so much, I would say, challenging complex problems to deal with. So my first approach in the think tank is data. But then you have to communicate to the broader audience. And today, in a polarized world, I would say that that's, I would say, my nightmare at the moment. How do you actually advance a balanced approach? Navigate the skies of polarization, of extremism, when we have very short time to take the right decisions to actually leave a better planet for our children for the next generation to come. So it's key, but I think we have challenges here to confront not only civil society, but a multi-stakeholder on how to use data in a responsible way to just manage the decisions that are not getting to the point at the moment. Sam, I just want to push you a little bit because I'm hearing the voices of civil society leadership, business leadership, military leadership. And there was a distinct aspect of your work, which is also humanitarian. So what about moral leadership? Where do you make that stand in that core so that the decisions that you make not only serve the purposes of your organization, which in this case is the Air Force, but really serves the interests and the needs of people? When do you make that jump? And have you been put in that position? Yeah, and it's a very, I guess it's a very loaded question, James, because in the military, ultimately some aspects it's to do harm to people. And some of the roles that people will find themselves in are to do that. So I guess you need to be very aligned with the values of your organization, the values of your mission. And certainly in my upbringing, it's been no and organizationally, if I have felt something isn't right, then we are encouraged and obligated to say so. So it's never a question of not having the courage to speak up. Either way, and I mean this in a very respectful way, you're a finely tuned and trained machine. You've been put through a number of processes and been exposed to some extraordinary situations which others, including ourselves here in this room, wouldn't have been. But going back further, you talked a little bit about your supportive family. What were some of the life lessons growing up, which imparted the values that you felt that you could leverage later on in your career that put you in an advantageous position? I think the main one, when I was learning to drive, and I have a sister, I don't have brothers, and I grew up in a small town in Australia, when I was learning to drive, before I could go for my driver's license, I could fly a plane by the way, but my dad stood there with a stopwatch and my sister and I had to be able to change our tyre, we had to be able to identify the oil and fill it up with the car with oil, and we had to change the fan belt with a pair of parity hose because no daughter of mine was gonna be stuck on the side of the road. So I guess I always was taught that it doesn't really matter what you do, just do it really well. And I think that is a philosophy for life. Okay, let's sit with that thought a little bit and head back to Arvind. Arvind, when we look at Samantha's story, this year she was promoted from squadron leader to wing commander, and obviously the military of all places must be hugely hierarchical. What's it like in business? Does it work the same way? And I also want to ask you, now that we have technology literally at our fingertips and within our own powers, that's enabled the individual to do extraordinary things beyond a role and a rank. Then what happens after that? Absolutely, I think one of the things that we're seeing from a Silicon Valley context, but more broadly is technologies enabling more of a decentralized structure. And so back in the day, whether it be a military institution or a traditional business institution, you had many layers and you had much more of a command and control approach. But today with the ability to capture data, you have a lot more empowerment of individuals in their particular roles and you're able to instrument policies to drive a decision. So I think the first thing is, you're not having as many layers as before. Two, a lot more empowerment to drive decisions. But three, it's also driven by using data to get towards a more accurate outcome. What do you think, Ilona, when you hear Arvin and Sam speaking about these issues, where does it chime? Where does it align or not with your work? Well, it totally does. But I think I'm taking a look at the society and how society is receiving all this data and how can we actually make more responsible leaders to act like that. So and I see challenges. I mean, I think both Samantha and Arvim and the principles, the training, we're doing the right thing, but it's not enough because in scale, we're not being able to do that. And I know most of our time and the military is very different in terms of the hierarchy, but we're trying to convince other people to do the right thing. So in a way, I think the leadership we need now is to do the right thing at the right time, regardless of it's gonna sound right to the people, but who is really willing to pay this price. So I'm in this kind of urgency call here for us to really try to make a way out of the sides. I think we have to bridge leaderships that can bridge across the divides. And just on the women's road to that, it's so immense because when you talk about the mental health, when you talk about giving hands, and when I work with police and I see they after like, we have a very violent police in Brazil and I look at them, they don't ask for help. Why are they violent? And as a woman, I can talk about this to them, but they feel very vulnerable. And as leaders, we can't show that vulnerability. So I think there are several issues you touch that would resonate so much to what I do, but in a totally different way. But there's an urgency here for bridging, for responsibility, but for communicating and for doing the right thing. And James, sorry. Please go ahead. And James, if I can just pick up on that, I think to me, the people aspect is the most important part of it. I think it ties to the theme of human-centric leadership, because it's about understanding people and across the board, up and down the chain, and making sure you communicate the values of your organization. People don't just want to work for you based on what you do, it's why you do what you do. And I think that part of it is important and it's imperative for leaders to have the entire organization behind the values. I want to talk about mental health because Sam talked about the psychological support that she and her colleagues were given in the immediate aftermath of Bali. We think of leaders being strong, you have to be robust, you have to be able to lead from the front. You're responsible for everybody else around and below you. It's the hierarchical structure that we spoke of. Who in this room, we can get a quick map, who would feel comfortable about saying, I would like to have some mental health support. I would like to have some kind of emotional support in the current roles in which you find yourselves in today. Hard, I'm learning. So he doesn't feel comfortable, he doesn't feel comfortable in that setting you're in, not because necessarily of you, but because maybe of the organization you're in or the sector or the person who's sitting next to you. Who doesn't feel comfortable? I mean, there can't be like a single hand going up here because only a few of your hands were not just now. Well, okay, I only saw one hand over here. Well, one over here, you would feel uncomfortable. Why would you feel uncomfortable about this in the year 2019? I think organized, so it's a cultural situation. So if you're in a male dominated environment, we had a meditation and yoga workshop. All the men rolled their eyes, they didn't want to go to it. So it's just not today. But I think situations like that, you feel the need to blend in instead of stand up and say, well, it does impact me, so I would like this. And what sector are you in? I'm in healthcare, actually, but in the business side. In the business side, but still even in healthcare, you would feel that way. I mean, Jonathan, Mari, would you feel comfortable about it or not? Thanks, James. I feel very uncomfortable about you questioning me off the spot. I do, I think it's changing. So I work in the insurance sector. We have an implication on a lot of the stuff, obviously, on the health insurance side. So I can say, seeing it from the data side, a lot more companies are doing a lot more. So I feel entirely comfortable to talk about these issues. Now, would I sign up and would I be the first leader moving in to take on healthcare counseling, et cetera? Maybe not, but I feel comfortable with the concept. Would you look at someone differently if they sought that help from you? I suppose it would be an odd answer because I think vulnerability is actually a great source of strength because only the powerful can afford to show vulnerability. Let's talk about Bali because you went into it in some detail and Bali was obviously, it wasn't a tragedy, it was a man-made tragedy. It didn't just happen like that. And you found yourself in a situation where you signed up, you essentially volunteered to do it, you didn't have to if you didn't want to. What do you take from that particular example, that very, very young age as well? Yeah, I guess I'd sign the dotted line to serve my country and Bali actually made me realize I had signed the dotted line to serve my country. So it actually forced me to decide was I just here to get enough hours to then go and fly for Qantas or was I committed to the military? And so that was a bit of a journey, those three hours. And then the debrief itself really taught me that I was recruited for who I was and my attributes and my skills. And then organizationally, we indoctrinate, we onboard, we kind of shrink everyone down in their initial training. And then I had this opportunity to sort of refined myself. And I wonder in our broader organizations when we go through that onboarding and the training and the indoctrination, do we allow people that the opportunity and the moments to then find themselves again so that they can bring themselves and their skills and attributes, which is what you first got recruited for or encouraged to be part of, bring that back into the fore. So for me, that was Bali with all of that and more. But I just remember sitting there thinking, I don't want to be like you. I don't, why am I trying to fit in so hard? I don't want to be like you, yeah. As you said, you could have opted for the private sector. You could have applied your skills to a commercial airline and like Qantas. I mean, it's amazing that the two of you have given your life to public service. And then there's Arvin, who went for the big salary after that. Thanks, James. He can still do good. He can still do good. Arvin, you know, the Robert Kennedy Center is, you should sign up actually. They're creating a course and they're encouraging leaders in public service. But on a serious front, on a serious front, you're working as head of the global public sector for major organization itself. It's then absenteeism. I mean, when I grew up, which is not that I'm 41 now, I couldn't think of anything greater. And I still don't think it's anything greater than to serve the needs of other people. What about public leadership, public leaders? And we're here in this incredible space with a lot of young global leaders here in the room, but we're also here at the World Economic Forum. And most people here are obviously committed to improving the state of the world, which is what it's all about. What types of public leadership are we missing today? Where's the gap between, say, for example, political leadership and moral leadership? Sure. So I'm part of the global public sector leadership team, so I just want to make sure I correct that. I think from a public leadership standpoint, you're starting to see different personas that are entering into the arena. So in the past, it would have been people that wanted to do good, be part of creating change. But I think, especially when you think about business leaders and technologists that are coming to it, right? One of the challenges we've faced as an organization is we notice that a lot of governments and public institutions want to leverage these tools. But frankly, if the institution does not have the capability to understand this, you're not going to be able to use this. And it starts with top-down. So I think in order to go through this change process, you need to have many different actors that are part of the team at the leadership level, but all the way up and down the chain. So that's one point. The second thing that I would say is, especially in the era that we're living in, of polarization, of anti-globalization, it's important for individuals like the YGL community and others to really step into this arena, because we do need change and we do need leaders from different arenas to help drive this forward. Ilona, when we talk about top-down, which has been mentioned a couple of times already, and Arvin has said so as well, does it work in the same way for civil society? And I don't just want to look at it in a vertical slump, but perhaps you can infuse us with ideas on what we can all do in a way civil society that is the body of people, for people. It's an incredible movement. I would put that all of us are part of civil society because I believe leaders can make a difference wherever they are, and that we have a business life and we have our civic life. So to start, we all need to engage. And it's not, I mean, I have my role as a think tank director, but I also have my civic role as a co-founder with other YGLs that are here in this room of a civic movement, a political movement in my country. So I think it's never enough. We have to do the best we can in our businesses to, like, also to advance the public good, but we have to put more there. Unless, you know, we're okay with the status quo, which I think we are not. So I think there's a role for everybody. And I think at the moment, we need to empower people because this idea that government will save us or even, you know, I think companies will play a much bigger role in the next stages of our, you know, planet. But I think all of us are in this to start. And when I listen to Samantha and when I think about decisions that were made, I also think we have to ask where we had value because when I started my work, I started very grassroots. I started working in favelas with children that were involved in the drug trade. I left a banking career before to do that, but I was, like, about to burn out because I couldn't work with those mothers close by. So I went to the policy side of this and I decided, okay, where can I make a difference in engaging the causes? I believe, reduce, violence, reduce inequality, you know, increase justice, but from where I will be healthy, where I can actually then build the coalitions and ask private sector, ask the military. I work with all sectors today to just, you know, pursue the cause, I believe. But I just say that the civil society, we should all feel part of that and choose your cause. It doesn't matter what is the cause, but choose one and start informing yourself, looking up to an organization that is doing something, build a coalition, but you know, unless really we don't wanna see our kids in a better place. And I'm just saying that because I come from a country that is in hard shape at the moment and I feel so many leaders are destructing, like, are destructive. They are not constructing something new. And I think this is a denial. We need neural models, we need Samantas out there for people just to say, we can do that, we need ovens. So how can we just rebrand, help, what are the inspiring leaders for today and what civil society can do to actually look for, you know, and allow these people to emerge? Because we're all being attacked by doing the right thing at the moment. Right. Do we have positive examples of leadership today? Well, Jacinda, for me, is top list. White gel as well, so I'm just like a little biased. But as a female head of state, I would say she for me is an example. And there was a huge, at the same day there was the massacre in the mosques in New Zealand. There was also a massacre in schools in Brazil. And if you see the responses of my leader, and Jacinda, I'll just tell you, just go and take a look what both did. It's beyond imagination what's also like a woman can play in this role with courage, with empathy, with compassion and being firm, being just. So I think, you know, we need more Jacinda and that's come like a, who will step into public life in a world that careers, reputation, defamation, polarization is up there. So we need to support new people. I would add Pete Buttigieg, who's also a YGL from this year. Pete Buttigieg, we're still learning how to say his last name. But he's the mayor of South Bend in Indiana and he's made an incredible impression in a very short period of time. He's gay, but he's one that's had lots of impact in terms, has commanded national attention in the Democratic Party. And I think when you think about being a role model for the youth, when you think about being a role model for diversity, when you think about being a role model in terms of change, I think we need these type of leaders to really change the status quo. Anybody in the audience with a question for any of us? Because if you don't put your hands up, I'll just ask one of you to ask a question. Abid, front row seat, always a mistake. A question for someone up here. He's not shy at all. I mean, he's very good at asking questions. Yesterday, you talked about India and Pakistan and you made the example that a couple of months ago, your country, Pakistan and your neighbor, India. And a lot of them are friends, sharing very similar cultures. You all came from the same place originally. Very, very nearly went to war. And obviously it was something that moved you and something was very, very emotional for you. How would you link that to what we're talking about so that navigating the skies doesn't stay up in the sky, but becomes a reality for all of us? Thank you, James. You're on the spot. Yeah, it does, for that, bringing the direction of the question also. Because I feel that in the case of Pakistan and India, exactly what we lack is leadership and compassionate leadership. And Pakistan and India both have had female heads of state. But I feel that because of the systems that they were from, they weren't allowed to have the impact that they could have. So what would you guys say to someone like Hina, for example, who's an aspiring politician, she's already a member of parliament, how should she do things differently in a male-dominated system like in our culture, in our country? Well, these resonates a lot with me in terms of gender because we try to emulate the male role, role model of leadership. And I think we need to be able to create the women's leading role. And I think we are on our way to that. But many of the women that were leaders of state were trying to emulate the same behavior. And I just quote President Santos, leading in war is very easy, but leading in peace and making peace is much, much harder. And that we have to learn. I mean, since we've got Hina Bhatt over here, why didn't we ask you, you're from Pakistan, you're taking lots of notes over here. What advice would you give us? I mean, you're actually in that position right now. You're wearing a name tag, although I wouldn't have noticed immediately. First of all, Samantha, I'm really proud of you. I think both of us were late, coming from the New World Hotel. So I noticed you immediately. So yeah, I'm really, really proud of you because as I saw that the breaking the stereotypes or the myth of, you know, having women not in these roles is excellent. But you were like very young and you knew your dreams. But there are a lot of girls who do not know their dreams. So I think, and they face a lot of problems, especially because of the culture and the society. I joined politics like five, six years back. And the first time I walked in the assembly, I was told that this is a male dominated field and women should not be there. And like you said, the military pilot and the leader. So a certain image comes. Similarly with women in politics, a certain image comes. So breaking that label is a very, very challenging job. So we need aspiring women like you. And to tell our story, even when I met Sharmine and Ben Chenoy, she was doing a great job. And a lot of other women who are coming. So you guys are the role models for us. I think more of the women should come and share the stories of what they do. It's interesting here you say that, given that you've had Ben as your buttoe, you've had Indira Gandhi next door, Sheikh Hasina, not so far as way that you would still be made to feel that you didn't have a rightful place that you had already earned over there. Thanks for that, Jordan Kerr from EY. Yeah, thanks very much again, Sam, for your presentation today. And one thing that I really like to understand is these days governments and a number of companies lack a lot of trust. And I guess as a pilot, a number of people put their trust in you, not only to get the mission done, but also for their lives. And I'm wondering, is there anything that you think that the private sector can learn from the military or from the civil service on how we can help governments or help improve trust in not only the way that organizations operate, but also governments as a whole and society as a whole? Probably, Jordan. So I fly for the military. In order to have achieved my wings when I earned my wings, I did a 12 month intensive flying training course. And at the end there was a big parade and we all got awarded our wings. And they're pinned close to my heart and I see them and I know I earned them. At no point do I sort of decide internally that I don't belong, because even when I have those feelings, I look down and I see that I earned these. Yet I have friends who fly for airlines, men and women, who did a different program and there was no time on it and there could have been delays. And whilst they have got their wings, they didn't really celebrate the success. So I think certainly from my perspective, knowing that you've achieved something and that you own that right to be at that table, that's probably quite a powerful message that it sends for yourself so that you don't walk into a room and feel like you don't belong. Okay, one last word. We've got exactly two minutes left and we need to finish right on the dot. Arvin, you brought up the very, very important question of how to navigate long-term crises. Climate change is one of them. Poverty is another. Food, waste, we could go on and on and on. We live in a time that you say is divisive, very confusing as well. How do you find our place within that and how are we going to establish the system that will see us through? Sure, so I'll give an example. So we've been working closely with the city of Copenhagen, there's many cities that are focused on climate change, carbon emissions. And to me, a lot of this starts top-down. So Lord Mayor Jensen a couple of years ago said, we'll be the first carbon neutral city by 2025. As a result of it, the entire city's decision-making process has changed with this goal in mind. So when you're procuring technology or when you're making operational decisions, you have this goal in mind. And that to me is a really important part of it because you have a leader that's essentially laid out what that compass is and the value for that institution. And then two, then you are able to figure out what data you need and that decision-making framework that you laid out. Once you understand what goal you go for, then you figure out what data you need and what you're going to do about it, but also how you communicate that to citizens so they can change their behavior. I've been Satya from Cisco. It's a great pleasure listening to you and also to Lorna Sapo from the Iguarapa Institute coming all the way from America and also from Brazil. And I think it's been wonderful and elevating and enhancing to listen to the life lessons that you've brought with us today and for sharing with us all to Samantha Friedman. Thank you very much for joining us here for now. Thank you very much. Thank you, Dave. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Well done, Dave. Thank you so much.