 Hello and welcome to this clip. Some of the deadliest clashes have been seen in Kashmir yesterday, after 11 militants were killed in three separate encounters carried out by the army. After these militants were killed, many protests emerged in the two districts where the killings happened, that is the districts of Anandnag and Chopian. So to discuss these developments and to discuss the other incidents that have been happening in Kashmir in the past few days, we have with us today Gautam Navlaka, who is a civil rights activist. So Gautam firstly talking about the clashes that have occurred yesterday. So we saw that we are seeing this huge support towards the militants from the civilians in Kashmir. After these people were killed, a lot of civilians came out to protect, to sort of shield the militants in the areas where these encounters were happening. So what is this atmosphere we are seeing in Kashmir today? Well, as far as the three encounters that you talked about, this is the first time and since 2010-11, I think, my memory serves me right, that there been such a mass casualty suffered by militants in a single day. So that by itself is a very significant loss for the militants. But the more interesting part of it is, as you pointed out, is despite operation all out, despite the threats and warnings issued by the armed forces, the army, the police, the CRPF, and the authorities at various times, people still come out and gather at a counter-site, shouting slogans in support of the militants, exerting them and doing everything to lend support to them and enabling them to also escape. This phenomenon, which began around 2013-14, and picked up after Burhan Muzzafarwani is killing in 2016-July, since picked up, and it shows no signs of abating. And it's in that context, if you look at the civilian casualties suffered yesterday in these encounters, it's pretty large. More than 200 people went to the hospital with injuries. A lot of them with bullets and a lot others with pellet injuries. And a very large number again with pellet injuries in their eyes. And it's this which also deserves to be taken note of that, yes, militants suffered a major loss in a single day, losing 11 of them. And by the way, they are all local youth. So the death of local people, the fact that civilians come out and continue to come out in such large numbers. I think it's a warning for the Indian government that the policy of military suppression is not going to work. Since this operation all out began, they've suffered a lot. Civilian killings have been on the increase. This year alone, roughly I think about 16, 17 civilians have so far died in these various encounters. It's just been three months. And just three months. And if you compare it with the number of militants who have died as well as the security force personnel who have died, it's pretty significant. And also, it's not like the militant numbers are going down. We're seeing a surge in the number of... Exactly. So the message also of civilians turning up at encounter sites is also that despite the fact that the militants get killed in encounters, in large numbers, there is no dearth of recruits to militancy. So at this level, this militancy can persist for a very long period. They don't require because it's the civilian support which is acting as a force multiplier for them. So that is, I think, a lesson that we should heed. Not the lesson that is being made out. I mean, people coming out and the army officers and all making this boastful claim that, well, we have dealt a major blow to the militancy and we'll soon bring it to an end or bring them to the knees, et cetera, et cetera. I think one should be more careful about declaring victory because there is very little that shows that it shows any sign of abating any anytime very soon. So the second major development in the state is the lifting of the house arrest of Sayed Ali Shah Gilani along with him. The other leaders of the Joint Resistance Leadership, Mirwez Farooq as well as Yasin Malik have also been given permission to carry out their social activities and political activities. So what sort of impact do you think this will have? Well, I think that the timing is pretty unfortunate for the government of India because if they believe that by releasing the three leaders, the three that comprise the Joint Leadership, Sayed Ali Shah Gilani, Mirwez Omar Farooq as well as Yasin Malik of JKLF, that they might be able to, that they were trying to send the message that, well, things are in their control. Actually what it shows is that they were compelled to release them because this policy of confining them to house arrest or arrest, ensuring that they don't come out in public, they don't hold rallies, they don't deliver speeches, et cetera, et cetera, would somehow bring the movement to an end. I think that has been belied. On the contrary, what has happened is the militancy picked up because when you close all other avenues, there are curbs on your freedoms and crackdown on all kind of protests and all, then you leave people with no choice but to end up not just owning the militants but also extending support to them as we have seen in the case of them turning up in large numbers at the counter-site. And with the Amarnath Yatra now due in June, the Anvil Amarnath Yatra, I think they had no choice but to release them to see whether it could bring the temperature down, so to say, in Kashmir. Well, it remains to be seen whether it actually results in that because they had also been, they have also been warned that while they have been released, they should not cause any law and order problem and not give in to any anti-national speeches and things like that, which is ridiculous because going by the parameters and set up by the BJP government, every statement itself can be considered as anti-national because any criticism of armed forces or of repression, of killings of civilians, lack of bringing the perpetrators to justice, etc. Anything can be construed as amounting to anti-national statements because it's directed against armed forces of India, etc. So I think it's pretty, but if they thought that by releasing them, they would be able to release pressure and bring the temperature down and maybe there would be a decline in civilian support for militancy, I think it's too early to say that. Also Dineshwar Sharma, I mean, he recently went on a visit to Thrall, I think. I mean, we're not seeing much resulting from his visit. Well, Thrall, it was reported by most of the Indian newspapers as though he went to the lion's den and was managed to meet people. Actually, the reality was altogether different. He entered an area where everything was shut down. There was heavy deployment of security forces and the usual suspects came to meet him. Nothing worthwhile came of it. So, I mean, his role, I mean, in any case, Government of India has declared on the floor of parliament that he was not meant to talk to anybody but to the representatives of people, which means those elected representatives. But those elected representatives have no quarrel with India. I mean, they still want their part of India. They declare their allegiance to Indian constitution. They have no problem with it. The problem is with those who are questioning accession to India, who are talking about the right of self-determination. You have to reach out to them and talk to them. And there has been a miserable failure. So lastly, moving on to the situation in Jammu. I think we're seeing this shift in people's attitude towards BGP. Even after the Kathua case where BGP was supporting these locals who wanted the case shifted to CBI. Now, even these people seem to have sort of turned against BGP. Like we saw, the BGP's committee meeting was shifted from Kathua. So what can you tell us about that? Well, for too long, we have ignored developments in Jammu and one has treated whatever was happening in Jammu and Kashmir. I mean, it was focused on Kashmir as though it's unrelated, that whatever happens in Jammu does not impact or contribute to deterioration of the situation and conditions in Kashmir. Now, it's become evident that actually one can't talk about Kashmir but also simultaneously talking about Jammu, which is in the midst of a deliberate attempt to create a communal polarization, including encouraged elements which speak of ethnic cleansing, getting rid of Muslims from the Hindu dominated areas. And even the muscular talk about Pakistan and teaching Pakistan a lesson and all, which swayed a lot of people who stayed close to the line of control or the international border with Pakistan. We are now seeing that signs of people actually being frustrated with BGP because they had expected something to change, to transform peace, to return to an area where the fields are so that they can carry on tilling the land and take care of the livelihoods, school education, etc. of the children uninterrupted by shelling and artillery exchange of fire between Indian and Pakistani troops. It's the opposite that has happened. Things have become worse. From firing bullets, now they are firing heavy artillery guns against each other, causing far greater damage than one had expected. So there is a sense of frustration with BGP. The frustration is also amongst those hardened Hindutva elements who feel that the BGP is not backing them in their Hindutva project. So this decision to move the state executive meeting, as you pointed out, from Kathwa to Suchedgarh, they realized that if they had held it in Kathwa and a protest had taken place while the state executive meeting was going on, they would have sent a wrong message to their own constituency. Having created this communal monster, now they find that it's demanding a pound of flesh, which they are not in a position to deliver. They can't deliver on the demand for ethnic cleansing, for instance, of Kathwa and other districts where the Hindus are in large majority. They can't deliver on a peaceful line of control and international border. Naushara, for instance, has been having more than 40-day-long agitation that went on there because they had promised that Naushara would be declared a new district. But they were unable to do anything about it in the last three and a half years. Of course, this is also coming from, as you've seen, this new parliamentary committee report which shows that only 22% of the 80,000-curve package that was assigned for G&K has been spent. Yes, although I must also add at the same time that BJP's or Prime Minister Narendra Modi's famous economic package is not the only package that has suffered. Almost all packages announced by successive Prime Ministers in the last 30 years have all failed to deliver on the promise. But it is true that BJP's performance has been miserable. To be able to only release in the last three years, 22% of the funds out of 80,000 promised that they were not even serious about what they had declared. If you remember two years back when Mufti Sahib was still alive at a public meeting after Mufti Mohammed Sayed had spoken and urged Prime Minister to reopen dialogue, resume dialogue with Pakistan and hold talks with Hurriyat and others, he had turned around and snubbed Mufti Sahib by saying that he did not need anybody's advice on Kashmir. But it seems this government and its Prime Minister actually needs a lot more advice and it's high time they start paying heed to advice of people who know what the situation is on the ground and this make-believe world that you can through military suppression bring situation under control showing that it's not going to be like that. When people are against, people are disenchanted and frustrated and there is no political resolution inside. There is no way you can bring either militancy or this movement to its new. It's impossible. So thank you Gautam for joining us in this discussion and thank you for watching this clip.