 Yeah, we're back. We're live. We're feeling very scientific today. This is likeable science. We're gonna talk about the Hawaii Space Flight Lab launch of the neutron number one satellite, which was only a week ago or so. Peter Englert, who we know from way, way back when, he was such a young man, then I swear. Okay, and then Amber Imaihang and Miguel Nunes, and all of them are scientists and all researchers, engineers at the Hawaii Space Flight Lab, working on a satellite. They actually built a satellite. I mean, that changes your life. How many people in the audience have built a satellite? Raise your hands. That's pretty good. So Peter, you built a satellite. Why? No, I actually did design the satellite. The Miguel and Amber actually were part of the people that built the satellite. This is always when you send something out into space to do science. There's always this thing, the division between those who do the science and define the object and those who then realize this. And that's very important because scientists and engineers must work together to have successful space flight missions. And they should work with talk show people too so that the public can know about it. So why is this satellite different from all the other satellites in the world? There's a lot of satellites in the world now. Let me take a first cut on that and then Miguel can chip in if possible. First, it is actually the second satellite but the first satellite that actually was built by numerous students of the University of Hawaii. It was basically launched sometime 2011, 2012 when we successfully got a proposal through me that I was a principal investigator from the science side and then Lloyd French from HSFL got this launch opportunity. But now it's 2020 right now. It's a long story to go from 2011 to 2020 and having the thing up in the space station right now. A story we can tell today but I would say it's a unique object from Hawaii. I hope you have some Hawaii UH logos on it somewhere so that if anybody stumbles across it in space they will know from whence it came. Miguel, you built it. Okay, tell us what it's like to build it and how you had to learn to do a soldering iron or whatever you need to make a satellite. Building a satellite is hard and people in the industry typically say space is hard and that's an understatement actually. It really takes a lot of hard work ingenuity to get it up in space. So it can only be done as a team effort. So you have the scientists that think about what science we wanna do and then we work together with Peter and try to come up with a science that we know we will work. It's not just a concept anymore. You start building the parts and like Peter said this has a long story but long story short it took us really dedicated two to three years to get these satellites working. So it's almost like an undergrad degree period that you have to really focus hard to make this work. Yeah, okay, so it's designed now and you're gonna make it happen and what do you do? You get on amazon.com and order all the parts. Ember, so and so. It takes a lot of thought and effort. We put a lot of thought into the design where we source parts from really matters. We were launched to the ISS so that requires special testing for the batteries to ensure safety. It requires us to fit into a bipod so we actually have this model. So this is the actual size of the satellite. It's about the size of a loaf of bread. And so it takes a lot of time and careful planning in order to design a satellite, make everything work both electrically and mechanically because we don't have a lot of space to fit in a lot of electronics. So they told you the amount of space you had, I guess. They said you only have X by X by X and make sure that it fits there and it fits right. So the whole thing is close tolerance, huh? You have to be measuring, testing, testing, measuring. But let me go back to the question I asked Peter earlier. What makes this satellite different from all the other satellites in the world? What does it do that the other ones don't do? And why is Hawaii famous for this satellite? First of all, certainly other satellites measure the same things that we do, but not necessarily at the same time. This satellite has one specific detector fitting into about a third of the satellite that can measure neutrons. So that's why the name says Neutron One. It's the first neutron satellite from Hawaii. There are others to follow, I am pretty sure. So what is a neutron? I am sorry to spend time on this, but if you could just tell us all what a neutron is. What is a neutron? So a neutron, we have lots of neutrons around us, but they're all locked up in an atomic nuclei. When they're in atomic nuclei with protons, they're stable. But if we liberate the neutron, if we actually make a reaction with an atomic nucleus and kick out a neutron, that neutron actually is around for some time, but it's actually an unstable radioactive and decays into a proton. So for a short period of time, neutrons are liberated, let's say, through reactions in the atmosphere where our satellite will be the atmosphere, and we can measure it, but then they disappear. Why do I wanna know how many neutrons are out there? Well, neutrons change. The neutron numbers change depending on where you are over our, in the altitude where we have our satellite. They change as a function of location and they change as a function of time. And that has to do with the production reaction. The production depends on high energy particles of the so-called galactic cosmic radiation. And then secondarily, on how well we are protected by our Earth magnetic field and where this radiation can do the interactions. And then how much of that radiation is there? Many things fall together, but let's take, for example, going across the Earth. Our satellite will partially cover the so-called South Atlantic anomaly, which there is a magnetic anomaly in the magnetic field. And so there is a higher production of neutrons in the atmosphere than there is at other spaces. So these kinds of things we can see. Okay, I guess I'll have to go on that basis. So where is the satellite now? What happened? You guys didn't lose it or anything. We know where it is, don't we? Yeah, so it's currently on the ISS. We are waiting for an astronaut to load us in to the Japanese subsection and deploy us out into space. Okay, so it's on a Japanese rocket somewhere, but it hasn't left Earth? It has left Earth. It left on, was it last week, Friday? It was a couple of seconds, yes. So it launched out of Waltz Flight Facility in Virginia on the Cygnus rocket. Okay, and are you talking to it? No, we are waiting for deployment out of the ISS. Okay, tell me what that means deployment and ISS would be good, we'd like to know that too. So the International Space Station is the ISS and the satellite was loaded into a pod and it will be pushed out into space by astronauts using a switch, but we have to wait until there's a change in crew on the International Space Station. So we're kind of waiting for that change over to happen and then we will, they'll let us know and we'll be released into space and then we can communicate with our satellite. Okay, so how do you communicate with a satellite? Does it have a radio in it? I mean, is it self-standing radio? And it's just ordinary radio or is there something special about the radio? We actually have a couple of different radios on board. We have one that communicates using amateur frequencies. So any amateur can listen for a beacon and find it and track it around the world. And we also have a global star duplex radio on board which means that it's a satellite radio. So it interfaces with other satellites and that network sends down the information. So do you share this data? You know, I mean, I like science that's collaborative. I guess you do too, because you're talking about how it takes a village to build one of these things anyway. But, you know, when the data comes back and we know the neutrons and we know whatever you asked it to tell you, do you share that? Do other people catch the radio signal? Do you share the results when you get the radio signal? Can I take this on in principle? In principle, this is a science experiment. So the data that comes down need to be processed. And once they are processed, we can actually distribute them. The first people that will get them will be our colleagues in Arizona. But the second set of people that will intensely be engaged with it will be students of our university. This is part of it. Like the building of the satellite involved, a lot of students, the analysis of the data and the workup of the data will involve students as well. Undergraduate students for that matter, not graduate students. So Miguel, how well did you build it? Did you test it? Are you sure it's gonna work? And if so, how long do you think it's gonna last? Will it degrade over time for some reason? Yeah, so part of the process is to test, test, test. And we spend several months testing the satellite. We did all kinds of environmental testing that are required, the radio testing. We have actually epic stories about that. So one day, I told Peter, one day we have to write a comic book about what we just did. Because it's just incredible. But we did all kinds of testing that are required and then desired. So we have a very high confidence that the satellite will communicate once it starts its orbit period. And we expected to actually be communicating with us just a few hours after deployment from the ISS. So once we have that pay, we will be prepared. We have a ground station in Kauai that we are working towards. And then we are working also with the Satnogs, amateur community, which is just a massive amateur community around the world that they will be able to collect those beacons. So yeah, we test, test, test, and then people can listen to our satellite. How long, how long will it last? I mean, I guess that's a function of the batteries and so forth. So our batteries can charge in space. And so you have a battery charge cycle every orbit. And the orbit of the satellite is estimated to last for about two years. So what happens is that we are released at about 400 kilometers at the ISS orbit. And then it's slowly over two years, that orbit will degrade and then reenter the atmosphere and then burn down. So if all goes well, we could actually be talking to the satellite for the two years. Oh, that's terrific. So I'm just wondering, you can't save it. You can't tell it to slow down when it, no, you can't do that. That would be nice, wouldn't it? It's speeding through space and slowly going down, but that's all we can look at. Yeah, also in a sense it is desired that it actually disappears. You don't want it coming down on somebody's head. No, no. In fact, part of the requirements of the design is to design a satellite that will desintegrate in the orbit, in the reentry. So these are soft materials that they will never reach to ground. So is this something where you get a patent on it? Do you have a special intellectual property on the designs, the protocols, the software that it is in the little box, which looks just like the one that Amber held up, right? That one, yeah, wow. That's smaller than my computer, yeah. So is it protected? Do you want to protect it or do you share everything you learn? I can take that one. If you don't mind, and maybe Amber and Peter should also answer. I think we have different interesting perspectives on these. Part of the technology is purchased from other vendors. So that is already known technology. Part of the technology, we build ourselves and it has new age property signature on it and then there's one element here that is interesting too. So we have two main objectives on this mission. One is a science objective and the other is a technology demonstration objective. On that technology demonstration objective, we are actually testing a software that we developed here from NASA grants many years ago to operate small satellites. So it's called Cosmos. And that's software, easy wage property as well. And we are validating that technology on this mission. So yeah. That's right, okay. We are validating something else as well. So we need to be very sure about that because the nutrient detector that we have is technology that has been developed at the University of Arizona. And that type of technology has not yet flown. So it is very important that our satellite actually is launched and that the detector works. Of course, we have tested it as well as have calibrated it. But that's a piece of science technology part. Science technology part that is also part of the mission and of our goals for this mission to verify that this thing works. So you're running a team, how big is the team under the principal investigator, Peter? How many people and what specialties? That was a soft team, so to speak. Historically speaking, many people have actually lend a hand and at any given point in time there were teams going away doing their work and coming back. So for example, we had one design for the nutrient detector done completely at Kauai Community College that even flew into suborbital space but got lost. So we needed to find another one. Many students were involved in that. To actually make a contribution to the development of the device. That is something, isn't it? Yes, yes, yes. So by and large, I never knew how large the team was because it was floating. But the other component is the Kauai students were part of the Hawaii Space Grant Consortium, fellowships and traineeships. And we had many trainees and fellows coming through the Hawaii Space Flight Lab as well as through HIGP, my home institution that have contributed piece by piece to this particular endeavor. So it was both a technical endeavor, it was a science endeavor, it's an educational endeavor too. So if I'm you, Peter, or for that matter if I'm Amber or Miguel or any of the other part of the principal team before you get to community college part of the team, what do I need to study? What do I need for a specialty? What level of degree do I need to have? Miguel, what do you have? What did you get? And what did you apply on this project? So I have an airspace engineering degree but I would say the most important aspect that we look into people is their motivation and dedication. They need to be passionate about these things. So, but we typically work with or electronics engineers, software engineers, mechanical engineers, it's really a combination of these three main science or engineering sciences that we look to build a satellite. And then of course you have the science part that I would defer to Peter too. Yeah, I also want to talk about the educational part as well because we're in the process of the university of formalizing the education for people who want to go into the space enterprise. The Hawaii Institute for Geophysics and Planetology has actually developed a certificate program that's now in its second or four semesters which does earth and planetary exploration technology. You can study it from any science degree. You can go into this program and get the certificate from any engineering degree. You can go into this program and get the certificate. Now, important for the future development is indeed the concentration in aerospace engineering which has been established to some degree already in the College of Engineering but my college, the college of SOAS, the School of Ocean Earth Science and Technology and COER working together to make this a big concentration and finally an undergraduate degree in aerospace engineering. So there are things coming. We have learned of this spacecraft design to some degree that we also need to provide formal education to get students interested, engaged into and being successful in space science and exploration. Yeah, Avionics, does that ring a bell for you, Amber? Yeah, so I'm an avionics engineer. I do electronic design and integration. So we do, like Miguel said, primarily focus on the bus side with electrical, mechanical and computer engineering. Programmers, definitely important and then interfacing with the scientists. So one of the things that I do a lot is talking with the scientists, understanding what the issues are and how to make what they envision as their instrument happens. So that's kind of big challenges you have to work with a lot of people. We had a team of about a little over 100 people, not all at the same time. So constantly passing information on from one person to another as people transition in and out of their degree program. That's great. So what about a publication? Is there, do you contemplate publishing what you've done already in terms of the device? Do you contemplate making inferences and analysis of the data and publishing that? Where does the publication come in on this? Miguel, you need to go first because you published already. We did publish last year a paper about the satellite at the SmallSat conference and it was well, very well received. So coming, once we collect more data in science, we will publish more follow on papers for that matter. There will be two directions in the science once we have established the data and the students are working in it, we will have a true science paper on what we have measured with respect to neutrons and what it means. And then because we also testing this detector for our colleagues in Arizona, we will have a joint paper with them on the success of this detector's performance, which is a technical paper that we actually will be publishing. So let's talk about funding for a minute. You know, this is not cheap. I know you don't get it from Amazon and I know you don't put it together with a soldering iron. I know that. But it does cost plenty of money and you have to go out there and get what government grants or private grants, you have to get grants in order to pay for the staff time, pay for the materials. You know, you mentioned you licensed software or technology from Arizona or whatever else. That costs money. So how much money does it cost to build a satellite these days? You know, it's not that I'm planning to do one in my garage. It's not, they're not in the future for me, but I wonder what a cost, cost the university, cost HIGP to build a satellite and where do you get the money? That's a very difficult question because we actually did this project with the lowest possible cost that I could imagine. First, we got the launch opportunity approved. Then there was some money from the School of Ocean Earth Sciences and Technology and then by and large, we actually were very savvy in utilizing all the other resources we had to bring this spacecraft into going. I've never done actually an analysis how much it really costs, but I'm pretty sure it was less than $300,000 or so. That's pretty good considering, you know, the implications of a satellite these days. What about the federal government? You know, research grants, I only know this from hearsay, but research grants are harder to get now. Did you apply? Did you get research grants? Are they harder to get for a project like this? During the time of the over the years, I actually had two specific grants submitted for the satellite. They did not work. They are harder to get, but now that we have the success, I can tell you when we're going out again. And I'm pretty sure that with the heritage, both having done the science and having done the engineering side perfectly, our chances to obtain additional resource for the follow up neutron tool or whatever we would like to call it are increasing. Yeah, okay, go ahead. I would just like to add, I think it's important to mention that there was a lot of student projects that we helped in, you know, the students, we engage the students in their classwork to help with this project. There was a space grant, Hawaii space grant funding that supported a lot of the hardware and even some of the students as well. And then there were other projects not directly related to this one. So we had projects, federal projects, et cetera, that somehow contributed to the parts that were on the satellite as well. So we want to recognize the Air Force for that and we want to recognize other groups like that have helped us. So our website has that information. I certainly have to say that I, that saw us as well at the College of Engineering, HIGP and HSFL, these were the three organizations, the four organizations that actually never lost faith and made it possible. And I really want to say thank you to them for these organizations for that. And you see, you're successful. You at least have a satellite in space. Yeah, it's great, fabulous. I mean, you have that achievement to your dying day. So, clearly, what about other similar projects running parallel or later on in the pipeline? What else are you guys working on now? I remember the word Mars that keeps coming to mind. The Mars trip, I've heard about that. But what else, Mars or otherwise, are you working on, will you work on? Yeah, I think. We have a very important project, which we're very into right now. It's called the Hyperspectral Thermal Imager. And that is a NASA grant that we were awarded a couple of years ago to develop a relatively small-sized bus. So it's a 6U CubeSat. So it's just as twice as big as Neutron one. And it's like a shoebox. And we're packing a lot of very important... What size shoe? This size shoe. Got it. It's about that. And it carries an instrument. This is a collaboration with the Jet Propulsion Lab, and they developed a very sophisticated detector. And we're testing that technology and then we're testing more technology that we developed here at the Institute of Geophysics and Planetology. Dr. Rob Wright is the PI for the mission, and Paul Lucy also is one of the principal scientists in this. So we're very excited about that opportunity because that is a flagship for NASA. It's a really important mission. And it will be deployed or launched next year. Amber, you guys work on the same projects all the time or do you do mix and match and change projects? Are you working on the projects that Miguel was talking about or other projects? I work on the same projects. I also have a couple other projects that I'm currently working on. I get drawn on to a bunch of different things. So I'm helping with the ground station development on Kauai Community College. I am working on an Artemis project. I am the project manager for this one new foundation enabler. And Dr. Francis Rue is the PI for that. We are creating a one-year CubeSat that will be able to go to space and we're developing the coursework behind it to enable anyone at the community college or undergraduate level to learn more about aerospace. So we're targeting a bunch of state who have not ever flown a CubeSat and trying to get them involved in the CubeSat launch initiative, have them get excited and get something into space. And we're working with a bunch of Native Hawaiian and Native American groups to kind of get them more interested or get them the foundation that they need to be able to do aerospace research. And I'm also working on a community project called Kiapo with the Hawaii Science and Technology Museum that's back home for me on the Big Island. And we are building a one-year CubeSat that will launch on the Firefly Alpha rocket, hopefully later this year. And our delivery date for that is less than a month away. That one was a fair part satellite. We grabbed things from around the lab and put them together. So I'm very excited about being able to launch this. And it was primarily designed, or the concept was designed by students in grades three through 12 on the Big Island. So it's very exciting. I can't wait to see more people from Hawaii get more involved in aerospace research. Sure. Well, and it makes me think of a monochrome astronomy. Is it possible to see any of these devices with any of the telescopes up there? Are they too small? Can you track them? So Mauna Kea is not the, doesn't have the platform. They're looking deep into space. So they're not looking for anything in low-Earth orbit. Possibly Haleakala would be the place that these satellites could be tracked at. One other thing about the launch and all that and putting it into space, I mean, that is a thrilling moment. So I assume you had a big party, a big party. You should have had a big party. You probably should have worn masks and all that, but a party would have been appropriate. Did you have one? We had a Zoom party. We all watched it together. Oh, Peter, you must be so proud. You must be so engaged on this. It's so good for UH. UH is making great strides in this area. And I wonder if you could just tell me what the future is as you see it, but also what the impediment is for the problems that UH has with COVID right now? I can't really talk about the problems too much, but I want to talk about the significance of the work of HSFL and Neutron I and the College of Engineering and so forth with respect to actually moving forward in the post-COVID environment to actually emphasize space exploration and space science and engineering. That is a new track. That's a new movement that will come because that is very important because of all the trends and tendencies that we have in the nation with respect to space flight and space exploration. The university should play and will play a major role by developing these programs and continuing the work that we have started but amplifying on it in order to make it a real, real strong part of our educational program. Absolutely. Before we go, I just need to know what planet that is behind you in the background. Is that the moon? That is a moon. This is actually a moon of Saturns and this moon is called Phoebe. I just like the moons of our solar system. They are the most interesting bodies. I'd like to send the cubes to anyone of those moons to figure out what they are but I probably don't have that much of a time left anymore to do any one of them. But anyway, yes, this is sort of a signature feature going far away and looking at things and understanding them. That's it. Thank you, Peter Englund. It's so nice to see you again. And thank you, Amber. Great to talk to you and thank you, Miguel. Great to talk to you guys. Pleasure. I would like to talk again. There'll be more I know and I'd like to follow your adventures. Thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you.