 Salam from the New Slick Studios in New Delhi. I'm Siddhantani and you're watching Play Things of Alien Forces. Unfortunately, times are such that we've been hit again by another wave of, or another variant of the COVID-19 virus because of which me and my man Leslie are separated again by this virtual barrier. Yeah. And that in many ways is the theme of this first show of 2022. Unfortunately, not too many things have changed on that front. We're still talking about COVID-19 and its impact on sport. Today, of course, the big story is that Novak Djokovic, I think who is the world's number one tennis player and one of the most successful tennis players, male tennis players of all time, has won a case against the Australian government for cancelling a visa that they had issued him once he arrived in country. This has to do with his undeclared vaccination status. And now Djokovic secured this visa. He's in Australia to play or potentially to play in the upcoming Australian Open Tennis Grand Slam. He secured this visa after a Victoria government independent medical committee cleared him or said that basically he fulfilled whatever criteria the Australian government had set for entry to be allowed into the country, into Australia. Now, while he has not declared his vaccination status and the assumption I think for most of us, based on what he's been saying and what's been coming out of his camp is that he is against the vaccination or against any sort of vaccination against coronavirus. But because he had COVID-19 and has presented evidence of enough antibodies, the government has said that he's exempt from vaccination requirements. Otherwise, Australia has mandated that anyone entering the country must be doubly waxed and then has to go through a quarantine, et cetera, et cetera. Leslie, sorry for that monologue. Just setting it up a little bit. You've been following this story, Leslie, from for a few weeks now actually before this Australian Open situation developed. What's happening, man? We saw scenes outside the courtroom where Novak just made an appearance. Hundreds of Syrians on the streets, of course, none of them wearing any sort of masks or other protective equipment. I'm not sure what their vaccination status is. But behaving as though Djokovic is some kind of hero, what do you make of it? I wouldn't, yeah, it's been at, the do-and-fro has been happening for the last three months or so because that's when the first discussions came up whether unvaccinated players would be allowed to play in Australia in the first trans-land of the year. And there was U-turns made by the Australian government who initially had said that no player would be allowed inside who are not vaccinated. And then they made a delay of it saying that they may be allowed, they might be allowed, there would be exemptions. And look at what it has led to. It brought it to this, which is actually a circus if you ask me, an understated circus where a player asked me, I mean, a player of Djokovic's stature, a player of, I mean, for that matter, any stature shouldn't go through that. And at the same time, if there was clarity, I'm sure Djokovic wouldn't have bothered to travel to Australia if they had clearly said that, no, it's not allowed. So the fault lies, I mean, not in people making a mayor or not Djokovic's stance as such because as far as I look at it, it's a personal choice. It's a personal right that he's exercising whether he wants to vaccinate or not. Whether that could lead to influencing people to go anti-vax is something that we need to, something that we shouldn't be getting into in the first place as such. Yeah, the player's stature, the reach of the player is very evident from the overwhelming support that he has got brought in Australia or from his country or from across the world. There are many people who are supporting Djokovic online or offline. So of course he has his way in things. He has the power to convey ideas and all that stuff. But ultimately, if you look at, if you take my example, for instance, I was always skeptical about vaccination. I initially delayed the vaccination but I took it looking at a larger picture as such. So I don't think a superstar tennis player saying things like he's against vaccination and he doubts the chemicals that is being pumped in and all that in a larger sense with the kind of scientific understanding that the world has now and the way science and its latest findings reaches via media or anything else. I don't think it's a question of whether one voice versus the entire scientific community. So I don't think that's even a factor here. So then what you asked about why you see become a hero as such because obviously it's an anti-establishment. The world has always celebrated anti-establishment of people who go against the tide. So I mean, he has stood his ground when the entire tennis fraternity, including the likes of Roger Federer or Raphael and they're all neutral about it. So he's one player who was not afraid to speak his mind. So let him be, I mean, in that sense. And as far as what he's going through in Australia, it's currently unfair on the player because it has been the fault of the Australian government here. And at the same time, what they did was that they use this as an election prop as well because elections are coming up and the federal government is under a lot of scrutiny on how they are handled the COVID-19 situation and the latest surge that is happening. And they got a good global superstar to make a skateboard, make a point even that we are very firm, we are very firm in our actions and all that. But then the courts question it. So because it was a futile and baseless attack. It was poor PR and so that has brought this out. And it's not this all that I would say because there are rumors again doing the rounds in social media that they are still government is again because apparently the health minister asked the veto power to decide on this again. They can revoke his visa again. And at the same time, also if it's not revoked whether Victoria government and any social media would allow his participation. Now that it has escalated into a crisis like this, will that happen? Again, that's also a question to ponder. Having said that, reports indicate that tennis Australia has been in touch with Norma Djokovic to the audience. And they are, I mean, defending champion, nine times champion of Australian football. The indications are that they want him to play. No, I'm sure. I mean, having gone through this entire process of even applying for this exemption and all of that, no doubt tennis Australia would have been involved in that process somehow. Because it's one thing to get a visa and enter the country but I don't think Djokovic and his team would have sort of gone ahead with this process if they had a thought that tennis Australia would then, even if he had a visa, would not allow him to play. So I'm sure they were involved in the process. It's interesting that you bring up also the Australian government and what's happening there with Scott Morrison's government's handling of this crisis. Australia is now at a stage where they have more cases probably in one day than they've had in the entire course of the pandemic. So at this time, when so much of the focus is on what's happening to this tennis superstar, the country is also going through a very tough time, particularly working people. Because like I was talking to someone who is in Sydney at the moment and they were saying that because of these number of cases, they just don't have the kind of preparedness. Rapid antigen tests, for example, are going for around 20 Australian dollars per test. So the kind of support that, let's say, a working class person is receiving from the government is around 40 or 50 dollars per day in which they have to survive, right? To eat, to pay rent, to do whatever else they have to. If you have to spend 20 out of those 40 just on getting one rapid antigen test, which allows you, and you have to keep testing, right? Because otherwise you can't enter any establishment, whether it's a restaurant or whatever it is that you have to do public transport to get to your place of work. So all of those challenges are happening and of course Australian politicians have not wasted any opportunity to jump on Scott Morrison and his government in their handling of the Djokovic story, saying that he's done a poor job with rolling out the booster doses for the vaccine. Rapid antigen tests are not available and now they can't even sort of keep control on the borders as it were. It's not an argument that we or anyone endorses, we're just saying or telling you the conversations that are happening. Yeah, so I'm a little glad in that sense that, I mean, though globally Scott Morrison and Djokovic are the superstars of the narrative in Australia, but at least within the country, they understand what the priorities are, which rarely happens in our country that way, right? Because we believe in pyrotex, we get distracted by pyrotex. Yeah, fair enough. So, Lezzie, what's likely to happen and when will we have final clarity on this situation? Let's wait, I mean, now it's, I guess, late for today to have any of such updates as such, but I think within a day or two because the tournament starts next week, right? So, within a day or two, I mean, give clarity to Djokovic that he can get into the secure bubble which is formed for the Australian Open and get himself tested again and ensure that he is clean and then get into the preparation and playing part of it. And I already, it feels that, I mean, and it would be an opportunity which we can manage to reach the final at least that title again, 10th title and also 21st grand slam. So, overtaking, better than that. But he already has an handicap because of that, I mean, detentione, I said, I mean, that's what the reports come out, I have come out, his mother and his parents have been very vocal about it. His father called him Jesus. His mother said that his son was in a windowless room. I don't know how true that is, but of course, training would have suffered and preparation would have suffered, he would have, and he is a person who has very strict dietary requirements. You can say hyperorganic. So, that has suffered to an extent. So, even as an individual, in an individual capacity, he has to refocus and make the best out of it. At the same time, Australia, and Australia also have to ensure that he is assimilated into the bubble in the right way. And bubbles are the key with the Omicron variant we have seen. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, which perfectly leads us to the next part of the show, where we're talking about India now, and I think two of the most high-profile ongoing national-level sports events or they at least, they were ongoing, I'm not sure, they are still ongoing, at least the Indian Superleague is. But the iLeague, which is now the second league of Indian football, which was being held in a bio bubble in Kolkata has been called off. The initial reports say six weeks, but our sources and people we've spoken to tell us that it is unlikely that that competition will resume before March of this year, once this wave is over and things like that, because the 13 teams that were participating in that tournament have now dispersed from Kolkata. Most players have gone home, et cetera, et cetera. So the timeframe of six weeks, I don't think is enough for them to go home and then come back and reform a bubble and have all of that quarantine process done again. So most likely that tournament will not resume before March of this year. And the Indian Super League, which was until now continuing to function in its bio bubble, secure and protected from what's happening in the world outside. That bubble has also been breached. Several high profile players, including one current or former India captain belonging to ATK Mohan Bagan, who also has returned recently from Novak Djokovic's neighborhood, not Serbia, but Croatia in this case. Not sure how much that influenced his behavior in the lead up to contracting the virus. But several other players in the camp have also, it has come out since, have also tested positive. Some of their family members have also tested positive. So clearly, let's see these bio bubbles not working as well. Like you were mentioning, this escape, whatever it is of the virus, this capability, whether it's the vaccine or these bubbles. What do you make of it at this stage? We are probably heading into, in March, April, another season of the IPL and sport. Sport is kind of pushing because sport is big business. Many billions of dollars are transacted on or around sports fields. So there's a big push for sport to resume as for long as possible. What do you make of these bubbles and how they are happening in India at the moment? It is an industry and it should be treated as an industry as far as big sport is concerned. And the money that is involved, the revenue that it generates, the economic impact that it would have on a larger scale in the country's economy. So we went via the bubble way, which is not how sport is run, league sport is run in Europe, for instance. I mean, we have discussed at this discussion before, especially when we discussed African nation of cup of nations, when we were just comparing how Europe, it works and one of the facilities that they have, which enable them to have normal competition without the crowd, but still club or manoeuvre club kind of competition and not exactly in a bubble where all the teams are within two, confined in two, three hotels. So we went via this and I believe that it was successful. Last year we saw ISL and ILE complete with our incident. In fact, you were there in that bubble, right? Maybe you can give some insight as to what exactly the protocols were. And see, when we discussed IPL and subsequently World Cup and how Indian players underperformed, one of the factors that we spoke about was bubble fatigue. And bubble fatigue leads to underperformance, demotivation and all these factors. Bubble fatigue also leads to laxity in implementing things. So a friend of mine was talking about how now he's based in Bangalore and he works for an university and the classes are online, but they are required to travel to the office for work, for what joy we don't get, but they are required to do that, they are required to log in and be there. And obviously some exposure happened and tested. And again, like you mentioned about Austria-Germany and how they do it, we testing again after two, three days when another someone said that I got it. So it's a tricky business. So, but what he was saying was that if she goes out somewhere else, it would be always focused in keeping up herself safe. But when you're in an environment where you're very familiar and you are sitting like eight hours, eight hours there, you tend to be a little lax about something. So someone came up and you, without a mask in your cabin and someone came up and spoke to her, that person turned out to be COVID positive. So that kind of a situation. The same thing applies at a larger scale in the bio bubble, plus the idea of this fatigue playing in because the players are completely confined. You experienced it yourself. So you will know what kind of a mental toll it takes. And so I believe that in the second season, third season with the two hyper-spreading variants doing the rounds. And at the same time, the combination factor of fatigue and laxity, in approach and all these things, all these are playing together. I still firmly believe that the protocol that's for the bubble can be made foolproof just as the human elements have to be in place, intact, sharp, which I feel is the reason why these bleaches have happened. And you can probably elaborate on that because you have experienced the bubble, so you may understand things differently. So I just like to know what you think about that. No, I mean, not much in terms of difference in understanding from what you have mentioned. It is pretty much, pretty much 100% in agreement with what you're saying, that it is possible. I mean, we have constantly, since 2019, debated the, you know, like, especially a sport like football, which is a mass sport that is very much based on people's feelings and emotions. So without fans, football is nothing. Now, the argument is that, okay, there are as many fans who are, or perhaps more fans that are watching the sport or any sport today via the internet, via television and otherwise. So predominantly sport is being played for television audiences and not for those who are coming to stadiums. If that is the logic, then, okay, I can understand wanting to have it in that kind of bubble environment. But it's far from an ideal way to have sport at all. And this is not even considering the fact that in holding these tournaments in bubbles, particularly in countries like India, it's something that we talked about last year when things were at their worst and people were dying by the hundreds and thousands. And on the other hand, right next to, like you very sort of emphatically wrote in one of your columns, that literally across the road from the Ferozha Kotla Stadium, where the IPL was happening, bodies were burning of people who were dying of COVID-19. So that kind of callousness has kind of permeated sport in the times of, I think, this pandemic and has shown that we don't necessarily, when it comes to a question of big business and the kind of money that is being traded around in these things, we tend to stop caring about the human impact it has. Not just on the fans and people around us, but also like you were rightly mentioning, on the players, on whose endeavor this entire structure is based. We even sort of forget about their reality. Now, of course, the fact is, like many people who are in management, they keep telling us that look at them, they are so lucky, these players, that despite what's happening around the country, at least they are getting a chance to play and train and they are staying in a hotel, what's the problem? They should be happy. They forget that ultimately, it's a glorified bonded labour in them. Have you asked the players whether they want to be with their family when the pandemic is raging? Yeah, absolutely. So exactly this, so when this ISA, iLeague break was announced that the tournament is being postponed, of course clubs had the option because whenever it does resume, it will resume in the same bubble in Kolkata itself, most likely. So clubs had the option and players had the option of staying on in Kolkata. Yeah, somebody decided this. I don't think anyone, probably unanimously to the last man, everyone has gone back home to be with their families in this time, whether or not they are, whatever the case, that is what human nature is. And the last part of it is how these breaches happen, you are absolutely right. It's familiarity. It's seeing what's happening in a wider environment. You can see from your hotel room, Bindu, right? People walking on the streets without masks, without any kind of, even an attempt to maintain some kind of distance. And then you're inside this glass and steel cage, watching them, you're bound to get lax. And in this particular case, I think what has happened at least at this one hotel where there was the most significant outbreak, I think 15, as many as 15 players from one team tested positive. It's because some of the hotel staff, which in the previous bubble, they were all given accommodation on site. So just like we were in the bubble and the players were in the bubble, so were the staff. Yeah. This year, because of all of the factors that you very rightly mentioned, these staff members were going home. Now their homes could be anywhere, obviously, which means taking public transport, being exposed, et cetera, et cetera, and then coming into the bubble and bringing all of that exposure with them. So essentially it was not a secure bubble at all. And therefore the breaches happened. I think probably when things resume, there will be, once again, the level of seriousness, hopefully. Because unfortunately some of this is also, the seriousness of it is also being reduced by this approach that this variant of the virus is somehow less serious than previous variants. Because the impact is less mild, people are vaccinated, et cetera, et cetera. So agar hobi gaya to, there's no big deal. That kind of approach is also starting to creep in. That these players are young, they are fit, they are athletes, so they'll get over it. No big deal. Two, four days of fever, and then we'll see. So all of this has to change, I think. The approach to it has to go back to a more scientific approach like you rightly pointed out. And if we are doing it and calling it a bubble, then we have to maintain that as much as possible. Otherwise, might as well then do away with even the farce of it completely. And you mentioned domestic, but we have a larger tournament coming up which is the Asia Cup and FC Asia Cup Women's Championship, which is happening in Bombay and Pune. And they are setting up a bubble for that. And I just hope that they are more serious about that bubble than what they have showed in ISL and ID. Because it's an international tournament and also a larger thing at stake because for Indian women's football, for instance, and we are, again, spoken at large about it, vibe of regular, and that keeps writing about it. And there is a series coming up in the news clip, on the news clip, that said, where we'll be following stories on women's football and how it has suffered over the years and how it's struggling to come up. And it is still, when you, on the outside, when you look at it, they are gonna play the Asian Cup, but how many matches have they played competitively or since 2019 women's tournament has not been held and it's a pity that it's not been held. It's a smaller tournament than the men's tournament and don't tell me that's all India federation, that's not, yeah, we're not unable to set up a bubble, but they can set up a bubble for the Asian Cup. So there, we are not just dealing with the virus, we are also dealing with that virus, larger virus that Indian sport and Indian football has suffered, which is gender disparity. So, yeah, and you, again, you were, we were discussing this, in fact, fortunately, let's show on this as well. So anything about the tournament, is there any applications coming up from the organizers, whether they should postpone it because by the time the tournament hits, it would be peak in India, Humbay especially. So, yeah, so Pune, Mumbai and Navi Mumbai are the venues for this tournament. 12 teams are coming from across the continent, 12 teams, of course, including India. The teams will arrive one week before the tournament starts on giant 20th. No apprehensions as such, because like you mentioned, it's an international tournament, Japan, China, Australia and several other countries are participating, they are sending their teams. No foreign nation so far has even voiced any apprehensions about sending their teams. So it seems like the tournament will go ahead and hopefully, I think, with Aditya Thakre being such an influential member of the Maharashtra government and being personally involved in sort of how football is happening, they have full support both from the center as well as the state government and because it's all happening in one state, relatively small number of teams and a short duration tournament, they will have to maintain a very, very strict bubble because like we were talking about on our show yesterday and this is a bit of a plug, please, if you are into sport and particularly football, in Indian football, please do check out our sister channel 420grams on YouTube and give that a subscribe and a follow if that interests you. We did a long chat on this with senior journalist Jaydeep Basu and Sharda Ugra last night and Arjun Pandit of course. But essentially what we're saying is this, it seems this will go ahead and it will have to be a very, very strict bubble because there's no scope for postponing, there's no, it's a two-week tournament, 20th it begins, sixth of Feb is the final. So there's really no scope for any kind of pauses or postponements there. If any teams are hit, I think the answer or the situation will be resolved by forfeits and walkovers which will be really, really unfortunate because I know a lot of us who have been following or who follow Asian football are very keen to see this tournament, it's happening in India so we're pretty excited about India participating after for the first time since 2003, India's national women's team will be playing at the Asian level. So a lot to look forward to on that front. Hopefully it will not be hit by COVID. But Leslie, we are also, I mean, I would love to chat more about the Asian Cup but we are very much out of time on today's show. So since it's the first show of the new year and it's the first time I'm seeing you in 2022 in this new season, I wanted to ask you for your two-point wish list. What do you want from Indian sport in 2022? Very quickly, if you can. India's sport, yeah, and maybe global sport as well. So right from, for India, I would wish, so I was in Bangalore, here in, I was there pursuing a couple of stories, just made it back before the wave hit and I was at a local football venue, Bangalore football stadium where the district league was happening, the Bangalore city league was happening and two clubs were playing. It was so beautiful to be there at the venue, regardless of what the quality or the level of football was being played. I was talking to some officials, I met some players and I just spent an entire day over there at the venue and it just felt like the year was made for me, whatever the lockdown that happened and all those things was forgotten in that one single day. So my wish list for India sport would be that I just hope that the authorities, the governing bodies, they look beyond big sport, beyond, and start organizing everything for the grassroots as well. And grassroots, yeah, I know setting up bubbles for the grassroots will not be the answer. So there should be a separate way of functioning for that. At least show the will to organize it when things are not escalated as far as COVID-19 is concerned. So Bangalore, when the action was happening, I mean, it was pretty stable numbers-wise, COVID cases-wise, and they had their own set of protocols to follow for the players to come in and all that. And things were functioning. So it is workable just that I don't see that kind of an intense happening. I'm not talking about Olympic disciplines as such because there are many disciplines like wrestling, for instance, all the age group nationals and athletes. So, but there are still many sport who haven't received access to. So I would like to see that happening right from the sub-district level to the national level where everybody gets the chance to play because ultimately when we talk about COVID-19 and its impact, it's not just the current plot of players who would suffer. Probably the sport in itself would be taken back years because the next in line, next two generations might be lost to the pandemic because they didn't get the chance to play when they had to play. So I would like to change that. And secondly, a very selfish wish that I would love to see the FIFA World Cup happening in full whatever, it's a festival. You have been there last time. You have been there a couple of times in fact. So I would like to see that happening in Qatar in a grand way. And also I would like to believe that instances like Novak Djokovic and all won't happen there. We don't want Lionel Messi, he's not vaccinated. I'm just saying to someone like a Djokovic version of a footballer having some issues. Apparently reports say that Qatar, the organizers have been clear that they would allow and vaccinated players in if they follow their guidelines of quarantine and all that stuff. And at the same time, it's a country which doesn't allow anyone entry without vaccinations status being declared. So that's a big, big, big, big stance for them, which is something that other countries are also taking. For instance, French open authorities already announced that they would allow Djokovic to play in the tournament. So it's again, it's a tricky call, but it also shows that sports should try to break because we are dealing with different individuals, different mindsets, different ideas. But ultimately we want sport to happen. We also want the world to overcome the pandemic. So where will you draw that balance? So I would, that FIFA World Cup can be as simple to show that this is how it is. And Tokyo Olympics showed it to a large extent last year. Winter Olympics is gonna happen. In Beijing in next month. Next month, so that is also a big festival of sports. So let all these festivals happen at the same time. Keep, let us also ensure that we are overcoming this by ensuring vaccines reach countries where it has not reached, less privileged people as well. Because we ultimately look at, talk about Djokovic, but we don't talk, he's a man of privilege, but we don't look at necessarily at people who genuinely need that vaccine and they are not getting it. So these are the discussions that should probably overwhelm the social media than at any player being detained. Though that's also a big topic as such because it sustains our job. All right, yes. So, and the one thing that you didn't mention on your wish list is that through 2022, may you continue to have that job? Oh yeah, and maybe sit in studio and chat because I miss that. Yeah, hopefully soon. All right, Leslie on that note, let's call it quits for this show. We will be back next week, hopefully, depending on the scenario and depending on what happens in Leslie's own bio bubble, perhaps we will both be in studio, chatting to you from here. But irrespective of how that goes for the next week, please stay safe, stay indoors as much as you can. If you do have to go out, please wear your masks, do your, wash your hands, try to maintain as much physical distance from people as you can. Look after yourselves and those around you. We'll be back next week. See you then. Thank you for watching. Bye-bye.