 When AWS introduced the modern cloud in 2006, many people didn't realize the impact that it would have on the industry, but some did see the future of an as-a-service economy coming. I mean, SaaS offerings came out several years before, and the idea of applying some of these concepts to infrastructure and simplifying deployment and management kind of looked enticing to a lot of customers. And a subscription model, or better yet, a consumption model was seen as a valuable proposition by many customers. Why not apply it to infrastructure? And why should the hyperscalers have all the fun? Welcome to At Your Storage Service. My name is Dave Vellante. And as an analyst at the time, I was excited about the as-a-service trend early on. And one of the companies that caught my attention back in the beginning of last decade was Pure Storage. Pure not only was delivering cloud-like simplicity, but it's no forklift approach to infrastructure was ahead of its time. And that's why we're here today, to dig into what's happening with the as-a-service trends that we see popping up all over the world. Today we're going to dig into three sessions with noted experts in the field. First, Prakash Darji is the general manager of the Digital Experience Business Unit at Pure Storage. He's going to join us. And then we bring in Steve McDowell. Steve's a senior analyst for data and storage at More Insights and Strategy, a well-known consultancy, an analyst firm. And finally, we close with Emile Stam. Emile is the chief commercial officer and chief marketing officer at OpenLine. OpenLine's a managed service provider. They serve the mid-market. And Emile's got a very wide observation space. He's going to share what he's seeing with customers. So sit back and enjoy the show. The cloud has popularized many useful concepts in the past decade, working backwards from the customer, two pizza teams, a DevOps mindset, the shared responsibility model and security, of course, the shift from CAPEX to OPEX, and as-a-service consumption models. The last item is what we're here to talk about today. Pay for consumption is attractive because you're not over-provisioning, at least not the way you used to. You'd have to buy for peak capacity events. But there are always two sides to every story. And while pay for use more closely ties IT consumption to business value, procurement teams don't always love the uncertainty of the cloud bill each month. But consumption pricing and as-a-service models are here to stay in software and hardware. Hello, I'm Dave Vellante and welcome to At Your Storage Service, made possible by Pure Storage. And with me is Prakash Darje, who's the general manager of the Digital Experience Business Unit at Pure. Prakash, welcome to the program. Thanks, Dave. Thanks for having me. You bet. Okay, we've seen this shift to as-a-service, the as-a-service economy, subscription models, and this as-a-service movement have gained real momentum. It's clear over the past several years. What's driving this shift? Is it pressure from investors and technology companies that are chasing the all-important ARR, their annual recurring revenue stream? Is it customer-driven? Give us your insights. Well, look, I think we'll do some definitional stuff first. I think we often mix the definition of a subscription and a service. But subscription is, hey, I can go for a pay-up front or pay as I go. Service is more about how do I not buy something just by the outcome? So the concept of delivering storage as a service means, what do you want in storage? Performance, capacity, availability? Like that's what you want. Well, how do you get that without having to worry about the labor of planning, capacity management? Those labor elements are what's driving it. So I think in the world where you have to do more with less and in a world where security becomes increasingly important, where standardization will allow you to secure your landscape against ransomware and those types of things, those trends are driving the classification of storage and the only way to deliver that is storage as a service. So that's good. You may be thinking about it differently than some of the other companies that I talked to. But so you've made inroads here, pretty big inroads actually, and changed the thinking in enterprise data storage with a huge emphasis on simplicity. That's really Puerh's raison d'etre. How does storage as a service fit in to your innovation agenda overall? Well, our innovation agenda started, as you mentioned, with the simplicity a decade ago with the evergreen architecture. That architecture was beyond the box. How do you go ahead and say, I can improve performance or capacity as I need it? Well, that's a foundational element to deliver a service because once you have that technology, you can say, oh, you know what? You've subscribed to this performance level. You want to raise your performance level. And yes, that'll be a higher dollar per gig or dollar per terabyte. But how do you do that without a data migration? How do you do that with a non-disruptive service change? How do you do that with a delivery via a software update? Those elements of non-disruptive updates, when you think SaaS, Salesforce, you don't know when Salesforce does an update. You don't know when they're increasing something, adding a new capability, it just shows up. It's not a disruptive event. So to drive that standardization and classification and service delivery, you need to keep that simplicity of delivery first and foremost, and you can't allow, like, if the goal was, I want to change from this service here to that service here, and a person needed to show up and do a data migration, that's kind of useless. You've broken the experience of flexibility for a customer. Okay, so I like the Salesforce analogy, but I want to jump out and do a little side for a second. So I've got to make some commitment to pure, right? Some baseline commitment. And if I do, then I can dial up and then pay for what I use and I can dial it down. Correct? Okay, I can't do that with Salesforce, right? I could dial up, but then I'm stuck with those licenses. So you have a better model in Salesforce, I would argue. Okay. Yeah, I would agree with that. Okay, so, and I got to pay for everything up front. Anyway, let's go back. I was kind of pushing at you a little bit of my upfront about the ARR model, the all-important financial metric. But let's talk from a customer standpoint. What are the benefits of consuming storage as a service from your customer's perspective? Well, one is when you start your storage journey, do you really know what you need? And I would argue most of the time people are guessing, right? It's like, well, I think I need this. This is the performance I think I need or this is the capacity I think I need. And, you know, with the scientific method, you actually deploy something and you're like, do I need more or do I need less? You find out as you're deploying. So in a storage as a service world, when you have the ability to move up performance levels or move out capacity levels and you have that flexibility, then you have the ability to adjust to meet demand as you deploy. And that's the most important element of meeting business needs today. The applications you deploy are not in your control when you're providing storage to your end consumers. You're gonna want different levels of storage. You're gonna want different performance thresholds. And it's kind of a pay for performance type culture, right? You can use HR analogies for it. You pay for performance. You want top talent, you pay for it. You want top storage performance, you pay for it. You don't, you can pay less and you can actually get lower performance tiers. Not everything is a tier one application and you need the ability to deploy it. But when you start, how do you know the way your end customers are gonna be consuming or do you need to dictate it upfront? Because that's infrastructure, dictating business inflexibility. And you never want to be in that position. I got another analogy for you. It's like, you know, we do a lot of hosting at our home and you know, like Thanksgiving, right? And you go to the liquor store and say, okay, what should I get? Should we get a red wine? We're gonna go white wine. We're gonna get some beers. Should I get bubbles? Yeah, I get some bubbles because you don't know what people are gonna have and so you over provision everything. And then there's a run on bubbles and you're like, ah, we run on the bubbles. So you just over buy. But there's a liquor store that actually will take it back. So I gotta do business with those guys every time because it's way more flexible. I can dial up capacity or I can dial up performance and dial it back down if I don't use it. Or you're gonna be drinking a lot more the next few weeks. Yeah, exactly. Which is not the last thing you want. Okay, so let's talk about how Pure kind of meets this as a service demand. You've touched upon your differentiators from others in the market. You know, love to hear about the momentum. What are you seeing out there? Yeah, look, our business is growing well largely built on what customers need. Specifically where the market is at today is there's a set of folks that are interested in the financial transformation of capex to optics. They're like, that definitely exists in the industry around how do I get a paper use model? The next kind of more advanced customer is interested in how do I go ahead and remove labor to deliver storage? And a service gets you there on top of a subscription. The most sophisticated customer says, how do I separate storage production with consumption and production of storage being a storage producer should be about standardization so I could do policy-based management. Why is that important? You know, coming back to some of the things I said earlier in the world where ransomware attacks are common, you need to standardize security policies. Linux has new vulnerabilities every other day, like find two, three critical vulnerabilities a week. How do you stay on top of it? The complexity of staying on top of it should be, look, let's standardize and make it a vendor problem and assume the vendor is going to deliver this to me. So that standardization allows you to have business policies that allow you to stay current and modern. I would argue in the traditional storage and appliance world, you buy something and the day after you buy it, it's worthless. It's like driving a car off a lot, right? The very next day, the car is not worth what it was when you bought it. Storage is the same way. So how do you ensure that your storage stays current? How do you ensure that it gets like a fine line that gets better with age? Well, if you're not buying storage or buying a performance SLA, it's up to the vendor to meet that SLA. So it actually never gets worse over time. This is the way you modernize technology and avoid technology debt as a customer. Yeah, I mean, just even the words you're using and the way you're thinking about this Prakash I think are different. And I love the concept of essentially taking my labor costs and transferring them to Pure's R&D. I mean, that's essentially what you're talking about here. So let's stick with the tech for a minute. What do you see as new or emerging technologies that are helping accelerate this shift toward the as a service economy? Well, the first thing is I always tell people you can't deliver a service without monitoring. Because if you can't monitor something how are you gonna know whether you're meeting your service level obligation? So everything starts with data monitoring. The next step layering on the technology differentiation is if you need to deliver a service level obligation on top of that data monitoring, you need the ability to flexibly meet whatever performance obligations you have in a tight time window. So supply chain and being able to deliver anywhere becomes important. So if you use the analogy today of how Tesla works or a IoT system works, you have a SaaS management that actually provides instructions that pushes those instructions and policies to the edge. In Tesla's case, that happens to be the car. It'll push software updates to the car. It'll push new map updates to the car but the car is running independently. It's not like if the car becomes disconnected from the internet, it's gonna crash and drive you off the road. In the same way, what if you think about storage as something that needs to be wherever your application is? So people think about cloud as a destination. I think that's a fallacy. You have to think about the world in the view of an application. An application needs data and that data needs to sit in storage wherever that application sits. So for us, the storage system is just an edge device. It can be sitting in your data center. It can be sitting in a equinex. It can be sitting hosted and MSP can run it. It can even be sitting in the public cloud. But how do you have central monitoring and central management where you can push policies to update all those devices? Very similar to an IoT system. So the technology advantage of doing that means that you can operate anywhere and ensure you have a consistent set of policies, a consistent set of protection, a consistent set of prevention against ransomware attack regardless of your application, regardless of where it sits, regardless of what content you're on. That approach is very similar to the way the IoT industry has been updating and monitoring edge devices. Nest thermostats, Tesla cars, those types of things. That's the thinking that needs to come to storage and that's the foundation on which we built Peer as a Service. So that implies, or at least I infer that you've obviously got control of the experience on prem but you're extending that into AWS Google Azure which suggests to me that you have to hide the underlying complexity of the primitives and APIs in that world. And then eventually, actually today because you're treating everything like the edge out to the edge, maybe mini pure at some point in time. But so I call that super cloud, that abstraction layer that floats above all the clouds on prem and adds that layer of value. And as a singular experience what you're talking about pushing policy throughout is that the right way to think about it and how does this impact the ability to deliver true storage as a Service? That's absolutely the right way of thinking about it. The things that you think about from an abstraction kind of fall in three buckets. First, you need management. So how do you ensure consistent management experience creating volumes, deleting volumes, creating buckets, creating files, creating directories like management of objects and create a consistent API across the entire landscape. The second one is monitoring how do you measure utilization and performance obligations or capacity obligations or policy violations wherever you're at. And then the third one is more of a business one which is procurement because you can't do it independent of procurement meaning what happens when you run out. Do you need to increase your reserve commits? Do you want to go on demand? How do you integrate it into companies procurement models such that you can say, I can use what I need and it's not like every change order is a request of procurement that's going to break an as a service delivery model. So to get embedded in a customer's landscape where they don't have to worry about storage you have to provide that consistency on management monitoring and procurement across the time. And yes, this is deep technology problems whether it's running our storage on AWS or Azure or running it on Pram or at some point in the future maybe even I'm pure mini at the edge, right? So all of those things are tied to our piracy service delivery. Yeah, technically non-trivial but hey, you guys are on it. We got to leave it there Prakash, thank you. Great stuff, really appreciate your time. All right, thanks for having me man. You're very welcome. Okay, in a moment, Steve McDowell from more insights and strategies is going to give us the analyst perspective on as a service. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in high-tech enterprise coverage. Why are customers making the change to pure as a service? Other vendors offering flexible consumption models will promise you the world. On the surface, it's just what you need but then you notice the asterisk that dreaded fine print that turns just what you need into long-term commitments, disruptive upgrades and unpredictable costs. Pure storage launched pure as a service to provide the flexibility to respond to your ever-changing needs with clear per-unit costs, no large upfront purchases and no asterisks. A usage-based model should be simple, innovative and adapt with the changing market. Unlike other vendors, pure is offering exactly that with options for service tiers and short-term contracts in a single unified subscription that allows you to improve your discounts over time. Pure makes sure you can grow and upgrade without ever taking your environment offline and without the constant worry of hidden costs with complete billing transparency unlike any other you only pay for what you use and pure one helps track and predict demand from day to day making sure you never outgrow your storage. So why are customers making the change to pure as a service? Convenient solutions with unlimited potential without the dreaded fine print. It's as simple as that. We're back with Steve McDowell, the principal analyst for data and storage at More Insights and Strategy. Hey Steve, great to have you on. Tell us a little bit about yourself. You've got a really interesting background and kind of a blend of engineering and strategy and what's your research focus? Yeah, so my research, my focus area is data and storage and all the things around that or whether it's on-prem or cloud or software as a service. My background, as you said, is a blend, right? I grew up as an engineer. I started off as an OS developer at IBM. I came up through the ranks and it shifted over into corporate strategy and product marketing and product management. And I've been doing, working as an industry analyst now for about five years at More Insights and Strategy. Steve, how do you see this playing out in the next three to five years? I mean, cloud got it all started. It's kind of snowballing, you know, however you look at it, your percent of spending on storage that you think is going to land in as a service. How do you see the evolution here? IT buyers are looking at as a service consumption-based as a natural model. It extends the data center, brings all of the flexibility, all of the goodness that I get from public cloud, but without all of the downside and uncertainty around cost and security and things like that, right? That also come with a public cloud. And it's delivered by technology providers that I trust and that I know and that I've worked with, you know, for in some cases, decades. So I don't know that we have hard data on how much adoption there is of the model, but we do know that it's trending up, you know, and every infrastructure provider at this point has some flavor of offering in the space. So it's clearly popular with CIOs and IT practitioners alike. So Steve, organizations are at a, they're different levels of maturity in their transformation journeys. And of course, as a result, they're going to have different storage needs that are aligned with their bottom line business objectives from an IT buyer perspective. You may have data on this, even if it's anecdotal. Where does storage as a service actually fit in and can it be a growth lever? Again, absolutely be a growth leader. It gives me the flexibility as an IT architect to scale my business over time without worrying about how much money I have to invest in storage hardware. Right? So I get kind of, again, that cloud-like flexibility in terms of procurement and deployment, but it gives me that control by oftentimes being on site within my pyramid and I manage it like a storage array that I own. So, you know, it's beautiful for organizations that are scaling and it's equally nice for organizations that just want to manage and control cost over time. So it's a model that makes a lot of sense and fits and it's certainly growing in adoption and popularity. How about from a technology vendor perspective? You've worked in the tech industry for companies. What do you think is going to define the winners and losers in this space? If you were running strategy for a storage company, what would you say? I think the days of a storage administrator managing rate levels and recovery and things of that sort are over, right? What these organizations like Pure delivering with their offerings is simplicity. It's a push-button approach to deploying storage to the applications and workloads that need it, right? It becomes storage as a utility. So it's not just the consumption-based economic model of as a service. It's also the manageability that comes with that or the flexibility of management that comes with that. I can push a button, deploy bytes to a workload that needs it and it just becomes very simple, right? For the storage administrator in a way that kind of old school on-prem storage can't really deliver. You know, I want to ask you, I mean, I've been thinking about this because again, a lot of companies are moving, hopping on as a service bandwagon. I feel like, okay, in and of itself, that's not where the innovation lives. The innovation is going to come from making that singular experience from on-prem to the clouds, across clouds, maybe eventually out to the edge. Do you, where do you see the innovation in as a service? Well, there's two levels of innovation, right? One is business model innovation, right? I now have an organizational flexibility to build the infrastructure to support my digital transformation efforts. But on the product side and the offering side, it really is, as you said, it's about the integration of experience. Every enterprise today touches a cloud in some way, shape, or form, right? I have data spread, not just in my data center, but at the edge, oftentimes in a public cloud, maybe a private cloud. I don't know where my data is. And it really lands on the storage providers to help me manage that and deliver that manageability experience to the IT administrators. So when I look at innovation in this space, it's not just a stored array in a rack that I'm leasing, right? This is not another lease model. It's really fully integrated into end management of my data and all of the things around that. Yeah, so to your point about lease models, if you're doing a lease, yeah, you can shift CAPEX to OPEX, but you're still committed to, you have to over provision, whereas here, and I wanted to ask you about that. It's an interesting model, right? Because you got to read the fine print. Of course, the fine print says you got to commit to some level, typically. And then if you go over, you charge for what you use and you can scale that back down. And that's got to be very attractive for folks. I wonder if you will ever see like true cloud-like consumption pricing. That has two edges to it, right? You see consumption-based pricing in some of the software models. And yeah, people like it, the lines of business, maybe because they're paying by the drink, but then procurement hates it because they don't have predictability. How do you see the pricing models? Do you see that maturing or do you think we're sort of locked in on where we're at? No, I do see that maturing, right? And when you work with a company like Pure to understand their consumption based and as a service offerings, it really is sitting down and understanding where your data needs are going to scale, right? You buy in at a certain level, you have capacity planning, you can expand if you need to, you can shrink if you need to. So it really does put more control in the hands of the IT buyer than, well, certainly than traditional CAPEX based on-prem but also more control than you would get, you know, working with an Amazon or an Azure. Okay, thanks, Steve. We'll leave it there for now. I'd love to have you back. Keep it right there at your storage service continues in a moment. Some things are meant to last. Your storage should be one of them. Say hello to the Evergreen Storage Program. Say goodbye to refreshes and rebies. Forget planned downtime, performance impact and data migrations. Forget forklift upgrades. Evergreen Storage starts with your agile storage architecture and covers the entire life cycle of the array from first purchase to ongoing use and whenever it's time to modernize and grow. Your satisfaction is covered. 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Make your storage one of them. A storage service. Emil Stam is here. He's the Chief Commercial Officer and Chief Marketing Officer of OpenLine. Thank you, Emil, for coming on theCUBE. Appreciate your time. Thank you, David. Nice, glad to be here. Yes, so tell us about OpenLine, your managed service provider. What's your focus? Yeah, we're actually a cloud managed service provider. I do put cloud in front of the managed services because it's not just only the service that we manage. We have to manage the clouds as well nowadays. And unfortunately, everybody only thinks it is one cloud but it's always multiple layers in the cloud. So we have a lot of work in integrating it. We're a cloud managed service provider in the Netherlands focusing on companies who ever had office in the Netherlands, mainly in the healthcare, local government, social housing, logistics department and then in the mid-sized companies between say 250 to 10,000 office employees. And that's what we think we provide them with excellent cloud managed services as it should be. Interesting, a lot of early on in the cloud days, highly regulated industries like healthcare or government were somewhat afraid of the cloud. So I'm sure that's one of the ways in which you provide value to your customers is helping them become cloud proficient. Maybe you could talk a little bit more about the value prop to customers. Why do they do business with you? Yeah, I think a number of reasons why they do business with us or choose to choose for a managed services provider. At first they of course are looking for stability and continuity and from a cost perspective, predictable costs. But nowadays you also have a shortage of personnel and knowledge. So, and it's not always very easy for them to access those skill sets because most IT people just want to have a great variety in work, what they are doing. Towards the local government, healthcare, social housing, they're actually a sector that are really in between embracing the public cloud but also have a lot of legacy and bringing it together best of all worlds is what we do. So we also bring them comfort. We do understand what legacy needs from a managed service perspective. We also know how to leverage your benefits in the public cloud. And I'd say from a marketing perspective, actually we focus on using an ideal cloud being a mix of traditional and future based clouds. Thank you. I'd like to get your perspective on this idea of as a service and the as a service economy that we often talk about on theCUBE. I mean, you work with a lot of different companies. We talked about some of the industries and increasingly it seems like organizations are focused more on outcomes, continuous value delivery via suites of services and they're leaning into platforms versus one off product offerings. Do you see that? How do you see your customers reacting to this as a service trend? Yeah, to be honest, sometimes it makes it more complex because services like you look at your Android or iPhone, you can buy apps and download apps the way you want to. So they have a lot of apps. But how would you integrate it into one excellent workflow, something that works for you David or works for me? So the difficulty sometimes lies in the easy accessibility that you have to those solutions but nobody takes into account that they're all part of a chain, a workflow, a supply chain and they're being hyped as well. So what we also have a lot of time in managing our customers is that the tremendous feature push that there is from technology, providers, SaaS providers, whereas if you provide 10 features you only need one or two. But the other eight are very distracting from your prime core business. So there's a natural way in that people are embracing SaaS solutions, embracing cloud solutions but what's not taken into account as much is that we love to see it's the way that you integrate all those solutions to something that's workable for the person that's actually using them. And it's seldomly that somebody is only using one solution. There's always a chain of solutions. So yeah, there are a lot of opportunities but also a lot of challenges for us but also for our customers. You see that trend toward as-a-service continuing or do you actually see based on what you're just saying that pendulum swinging back and forth somebody comes out with a new sort of feature product and that changes the dynamic or do you see the as-a-service really having legs? Ah, I think that's a very, very good question David because that's something that keeps us busy all the time. We do see a trend in as-a-service looking at, I'll talk about pure later on we also use pure as-a-service more or less and it really helps us. But you see that sometimes people make a step too fast, too quick, not well thought of. And then you see what they call the sort of cloud repatriation tendance that people go back to what they are doing and then they stop innovating or stop leveraging the possibilities are actually there. So from our consultancy, our guidance and architecture point of view we try to help them as much as possible to think in as-a-service thought but just don't use the cloud, there's just another data set. And so it's all about managing the maturity on our side but on our customer side as well. So I'm interested in how you're sort of your philosophy and this relates I think in terms of how you work with pure but how do you stay tightly in lockstep with your customers so that you don't over-rotate so that you don't, and send them to over-rotate but then also you don't want to be too late to the game. How do you manage all that? Oh, there's a world of interactions between us and our customers. And so I think a well-known thing that people know is customer intimacy. And that's very important for us to get to know our customers and get to predict which way they are moving. But the thing that we add to it is also the ecosystem intimacy. So know the application and services landscape of our customers, know the primary providers and work with them to create something that really fits the customers. To just not look at from our own silo where our cloud managed service provider. No, we actually work in the ecosystem with the primary providers. And we have, I think with the average customers I think we have in a month we have so much interactions on operational level and technical level, strategic level. We do bring together our customers also and to jointly think about what we can do together what we independently can never reach. But we also involve our customers in defining our own strategy. So we have something we call a customer involvement board where we present a strategy and say, does it make sense? And this is actually what you need also. So we take a lot of our efforts into our customers and we do also understand the significant moments of truth. We are now in this broadcast David. So you can imagine that at this moment nothing can go wrong. If the internet stops, we have a problem now. So we actually know that this broadcast is going on for our customers and we manage that it's always on. Where in the other moments in the week we might have a little less attention but this moment we should be there. And these moments of truth that we really embrace we got them well described. Everybody working on the line knows what the moment of truth is for our customers. So we have a big logistics provider. For instance, he does not have to ask us to have a higher availability on Black Friday or Saturday or Monday. We know that's the most important part in the year for him or her. Does it answer your question David? Yes, we know as well, you know, in these big, you know, big game moments you have to be on your top, on top of your game. You know, the other thing, Emil, about this as a service approach that I really like is it's a lot of it is consumption-based and the data doesn't lie. You can see adoption, you know, daily, weekly, monthly. And so I wonder how you're leveraging pure as a service specifically and what kind of patterns you're seeing in the adoption? Pure as a service for our customers is mainly never visible. We provide storage services, so private storage solutions and storage of its part of a bigger thing, of a server, of an application. So the real benefits, to be honest, of course, towards our customers all flash and they have the fastest storage is available, but for ourself, we use less resources to manage our storage. We're far more, but we have a near to maintenance free storage solution now because we have it as a service and we work closely together with Pure. So actually the way that we treat our customers is the way Pure treats us as well. And that's why there's a huge click. So the real benefits, how we leverage is that normally we had a bunch of guys managing our storage. Now we only have one. And knowing that's a shortage of IT personnel, the other persons can well be involved in other parts of our services or in other parts of an innovation. So that's simply great. You know, my takeaway, Emil, is that you've made infrastructure, at least the storage infrastructure invisible to your customers, which is the way it should be. You don't have to worry about it. And you've also attacked the labor problem. You're not provisioning lungs anymore or tuning the storage with arms and legs. So that's huge. So that gets me into the next topic, which is business transformation. That means that I can now start to attack the operational model. So I've got a different IT model now. I'm not managing infrastructure in ways. So I have to shift those resources. And I'm presuming that it's a business, now becomes a business transformation discussion. How are you seeing your customers shift those resources and focus more on their business as a result of this sort of as a service trend? I do not know if they transform that business. Thanks to us, I think that they can more leverage their own business, have less problems, less maintenance, et cetera, et cetera. But we also add new certainties to it. It's like the latest service we released was immutable storage. Being the first in the Netherlands offering this thanks to the pure technology, but for customers it takes them and give them a good night rest because we have some geopolitical issues in the world. There's a lot of hacking, people have a lot of ransomware attacks and we just give them a good night rest. So from a business transformation, does it transform their business? I think that gives them a comfort in running your business. Knowing that certain things are well arranged. You don't have to worry about that. We will do that. We'll take it out of your hands and you just go ahead and run your business. So to me, it's not a transformation, it's just using the right opportunities at the right moment. The immutable piece is interesting because of course, but speaking of as a service, anybody can go on the dark web and buy ransomware as a service. I mean, it was seen as a service economy hit everywhere, the good and the not so good. And so I presume that your customers are looking at immutability as another capability of the service offering and really rethinking maybe because of the recent ransomware attacks, rethinking how they approach business continuance, business resilience, disaster recovery. Can you see that? Yeah, definitely, definitely. I don't, not all of them yet. Immutable storage is like an insurance as well. I have what you have when you have immutable storage and you have a ransomware attack at least if you part of data, which never if data is corrupted, you cannot restore it. If your hardware is broken, you can order new hardware, but data is corrupted, you cannot order new data. And now we got that safe and well. And so we offered them the possibility to do the forensics and free up their data without a tremendous loss of time. But you also see that you raise the new, how do you say the new baseline for other providers as well. So the security of the corporate information, security of the service, TIO, they're all very happy with that. And they raise the baseline for others as well. So they can look at other security topics and look from say a security operation center because now we can really focus on our prime business risks because from a technical perspective, we got it covered. How can we manage the business risk, which is a combination of people, processes and technology. All right, makes sense. Okay, I'll give you the last word. Talk about your relationship with Pure, where you want to see that going in the future. I hope we'll be working together for a long time. I experienced them as very involved. That's not, we have done the sale and now it's all up to you. Now we're really closely working together. I know if I talk to my prime architect, Marcel Haider is very happy and it looks more or less if we work with Pure, like we're working with colleagues, not with a supplier and a customer. And the whole Pure concept is quite fascinating. I had the opportunity to visit San Francisco head office and they told me the vision of how they launched Pure being, if you want to implement it, they had to be on one credit card. The menu had to be on one credit card. Just a simple thought of, put that as your big, heavy audacious goal to make the simplest implementable storage available. But for us, it gives me the expectation that there will be a lot of more surprises with Pure in the near future. And for us as a provider, what we really look forward to is that for us, these new developments will not be new migrations. It will be a gradual growth of our services, our storage services. So that's what I expect and that was what I, and we look forward to. Yeah, that's great. Thank you so much, Emil, for coming on theCUBE and sharing your thoughts and best of luck to you in the future. Thank you, you're welcome. Thanks for having me. You're very welcome. Okay, in a moment, I'll be back to give you some closing thoughts on at your storage service. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in high-tech enterprise coverage. Welcome to Evergreen, a place where organizations grow and thrive rooted in the modern data experience. In Evergreen, people find a seamless, simple way to leverage data. Through market-leading, sustainable technology, financial flexibility and effortless management, allowing everyone to innovate with data confidently. Welcome to Pure Storage. Now, if you're interested in hearing more about Pure's growing portfolio of technology and services and how they're transforming the enterprise data experience, be sure to register for Pure Accelerate TechFest 22, digital event is also taking place as an in-person event on June 8th. 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