 Greetings ladies and gentlemen. My name is Janati Stolier of the second. I'm the chairman of the United States Transhumanist Party and today I am pleased to be speaking with Sylvester Geltmeyer from the Netherlands. Welcome Sylvester. Thank you. Yeah, I want to thank you for your for this opportunity to speak about this. And before we go delve into more techno-optimistic ideas that may benefit in the future, especially regarding any sort of virus outbreak, I quickly want to say one thing what I think is of importance and that should be considered. I notice that we as humans sometimes get stuck in this loop, this catch-22 if you will, but it's not a normal catch-22. It goes all directions, but it's still going down in a downward spiral. And this can be of all sort of sentiments, can be ethnocentrism, politica-centrism, religiocentrism, sex-centrism or other sorts of sentiments. We go in this mindset of squabbling, bickering, slandering and creating an unnecessary animosity. We get stuck with this constant amygdala agitations and hijacks. It becomes an algorithm, a habit. Albert Einstein once said, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. And I think it's best in the wake of this situation to transcend from our loops and seeing things from a helicopter view and develop a broader perspective. It's best we put aside our differences because there's more that unites us than what divides us. So that's my introduction. It's a more philosophical idea that we might take into consideration. So maybe you want to say something about that? Yes, indeed. So I have said previously that we should really think of ourselves as being at war with this virus and with disease and death more generally. And this is a war that all of humanity is fighting, that all of humanity should be united in fighting. And so these petty differences, differences of nationality, differences of gender, culture, religion should matter a lot less than they perhaps used to for some people when we're fighting this war. Because this is a common enemy that affects all of us. Yes, indeed. Yeah, I agree. I also think that some of these, I understand we as humans we get these amygdala agitations and hijacks and everything. But I also understand that it becomes more counterproductive than productive, especially in the long term, in the long run. And it becomes more as a distraction. And that's why I want to say this. Because I noticed that not only in real life, but also on the Internet, just put out the audio and analyze the facial expressions. And you can always see everybody is fixed in these amygdala agitations and it's not going anywhere. It's just going in a downward spiral. Sometimes you just have to snap out of it and see things from a broader perspective. A helicopter view and say, OK, we might have differences, but now it's the time to cooperate with each other and to find out what's the best way to beat this virus. Yes, indeed. So you have some ideas about how to combat the COVID-19 pandemic. And I would be interested for you to share them with our viewers. Before I want to say these ideas, I first want to introduce the idea of looking at great ideas. So let's start with the ideas that can be helpful in the future regarding a virus eyebreak of all sorts. And first we need to know what is an idea of a great idea. So if someone has a great idea, we should look at its potential. That might have some potential. And the idea may not be perfect, but it's best if one does not point out the holes of an idea and dismiss it as a whole. It's better to point out the holes and come up with something that fixes those holes and it's also better to build upon that idea so that the idea can be improved if necessary. So that's the first thing that I want to say and must be established is that if somebody has a great idea, think just as a great idea that might need some improvements here and there. That does not necessarily is like completely perfect, but it's a great idea. And that's where everything should start with a great idea. So do you want to elaborate on that? Yes. Yes. So essentially, every idea should be exposed to some sort of consideration of its merits, even if it's preliminary, even if it doesn't have all of the components that might be needed to implement it successfully. There may be some good concepts in there. There may be some promising beginnings there, which if the idea is developed further, could turn into a practical solution to whatever problem we're trying to address. Yes. So my first idea is not necessary about the virus, but the idea of a dynamic system. Often we humans try to create a system, whatever system of government or system you have or rules or laws and they're more static. But if you build something that's static, it can work for maybe 10 years, 100 years or 200 years. But we never know what might happen in the future. And if you don't adopt, if you stay stubborn, we might lose the game. So the idea is to have a system that might work for the moment of time, but also to consider that we might adapt things sometimes slightly or sometimes more advanced. The reason why I believe we should always adapt also our systems is because, well, in the wake of a virus, a virus can also adapt and so must we. So take that in mind that the adaptability of our systems is smart thinking. It's something very futuristic. It's very much like if we figure out something else, then we can adapt towards it. Yes, first idea. Yes, and that is quite an important point. I think prior to this pandemic, a lot of societies and economies in the so-called developed world were actually hyper-optimized for one particular system. In a particular set of arrangements, like a lot of the logistical supply chains were following a so-called just-in-time system where businesses were trying to figure out, well, how do we get supplies from point A to point B at the lowest cost possible, and just when we need them so that we don't have to stockpile extra inventory. But the problem with that is as soon as circumstances change in any significant way. If there's any disruption along that supply chain or anything that knocks out an aspect of production, for instance, if businesses have to close because there's a pandemic, then that throws the entire system into chaos. But if there were more adaptability within the system, if it were possible for the system to continue functioning, even if a lot of the nodes or a lot of the steps in the process were knocked out, it would have helped a lot. Businesses and individuals had been stockpiling a lot of goods as a habit, as a routine, then having temporary supply disruptions might not have been as bad as it has been with this just-in-time system that, indeed, the global economy had been utilizing for about the past 30 years. Yes, I agree. I mean, that's also the next thing I want to talk about is the idea of wisdom and why wisdom can be helpful, not just only information. And sometimes I look at, like, Dutch proverbs and you can find a lot of wisdom in, like, proverbs. Like, one wisdom is, I'm going to say it immediately in English, is if the calf drowns, so the son of daughter of the cow and the bull, then people will shut the well, that they will put a lid on the well. With that being said, is that we often don't make a backup plan first, and we often, when it happens, then we decide to do action or think of ideas. Well, it should be the other way around. We should always think ahead of the time. So there's a very wise proverb that teaches us that we should get out of this idea that we only should start taking action when it starts to happen. We sometimes must think in the future, in long terms. So, yeah, that's also a great wisdom of Dutch proverb. Another one is this ironic, but the people you hang around with are the people who infect you or contaminate you. So if you're going to meet people who are very much in despair or are cynic about life or think, oh, great ideas should be dismissed, it might take over your mentality. So it's best always to find people or to meet people who are positive, optimistic and want to bring the best about in each other. So that's a great proverb. And there's another one that says like splits and knots, where the one is connected, the other one is broken. So it's also good to meet people who think different than you, who have different opinions, just to figure out maybe we can find something in the middle. Like someone has ID A, the other ID B. ID A and B, you have a dialectical discourse and you figure out maybe we should develop an ID C, which is far more better than A and B. And that's also the central message about why the dialectic discourse is far more important than just having heated debates and discussions, because you're looking at figuring out the best outcome instead of just keep maintaining some sort of premise, some start. Instead of that, you're going to look what is the best outcome out of this. So that's also important to know that wisdom plays a role in this crisis, so to speak. Yes, indeed. And you spoke into the importance of being proactive rather than reactive, anticipating a crisis or an unusual problem before it happens, having a plan being prepared. The United States Transhumanist Party, as the third of its three core ideals, emphasizes using science, technology and rational discourse to prevent and mitigate existential risks to the human species. So, phenomenon such as a pandemic is a massive risk and a pandemic like COVID-19 isn't going to wipe out the human species, but it could do significant damage. And it would have been nice if there were some greater anticipation in pretty much every country, every human society of this event. If there were greater capacity within the healthcare system to absorb a major influx of patients so that public officials didn't have to speak about the so-called flattening of the curve and instead would have been ready to treat any number of people who got infected by this disease. The U.S. Transhumanist Party has put forward a set of now 17 proposals that can be found on our website at transhumanist-party.org. We will begin voting on them on Wednesday, March 25th. And the core focus of these proposals is to rapidly build up our capacity to respond to these kinds of events, including through the rapid construction of hospitals, the training of emergency response personnel for this COVID-19 pandemic but for future pandemics as well. And the stockpiling of medical supplies, the creation of facilities that would hold these supplies in large numbers so that in times of extraordinary need, any hospital, any medical clinic can request them and get what is necessary to treat its patients. So we need to set aside resources. We need to develop extra infrastructure, extra capacity to be able to deal with extraordinary situations like this pandemic. I agree. I agree. It's better to plan ahead than wait till it comes and then to decide what to do. This can be a lesson and from this lesson we will learn to be more prepared for the future. I agree. So I'm now getting more into the other real ideas, the idea of mental support hotlines during a virus outbreak. So I noticed in my environment, whether it's on Facebook, some people can't handle this situation mentally. They either lose morale or they go on the internet and they get all these incentives and they're going to watch more post-apocalyptic things and everything and they just lose it. They either lose morale or they have a mental breakdown or what have you. So it's best that in these times we also need to have some sort of support hotline. A mental support hotline can be by the means of video chat, can be just calling someone where people in the professional world like psychiatrist or something like that can help people to keep up the morale and to fix the bad thinking in people. It could be done mixed economies, maybe a part can be done by the government financially and a part can be done in the private sector. It could be done both. It could be even a cooperation between them. But this is one of the first thing I also think is very important because even if we fix this problem there's going to be a lot of people who stuck with a lot of anxiety and they haven't helped themselves with this anxiety. They're still living on with this anxiety. So that's also important to take mental health into consideration. Yes, indeed. And with all of these social distancing measures it's more difficult now for people to get support from those close to them, from people in their community because everybody is physically distant from everybody else. And it's necessary in my view for people to proactively reach out to others, to friends, to members of communities with shared interests and maintain lines of communication virtually. Conversations like the one we're having are extremely important but everybody should be engaging in these conversations within their social networks provided of course that the conversations are constructive and supportive and give people options for solving some of the problems that they face, improving their situation. And there are hotlines that have been established for other purposes, for instance suicide prevention hotlines exist throughout the world. And this pandemic is definitely having adverse impacts on the emotional well-being of a lot of individuals. So having some opportunity for people to discuss these thoughts and these feelings would definitely be worthwhile. But I would say in addition to a hotline of the sort, people should also rely on their friends and acquaintances to help support them in this time and just continuing to have conversations, continuing to check in, having a habit of engaging in virtual discussions every day, I think will help counter a lot of the adverse effects of physical distancing. Yeah, I agree, I agree. I have another idea, the idea of a ready-made, has-made suit. The thing about this is that in the future might be a virus which spreads quicker and might also dwell in the air and just by the contact of your skin already can be affected. So I've thought about if one can make a pre-made has-made suit that you can keep in like storage buildings in whatever province or state you live, different areas. It's just a matter of calculation how much citizens is within every state. Specialized has-made suits, so you can see the full face, so there's a transparent shield over it, but you can still recognize who you're dealing with, so it's not something that hides your nose and your mouth. And you can also advance that, that it becomes more comfortable, it can be used in warm weather, cold weather, it might even be adaptable in sizes. And it is allowed by the law, so you just show your identification and somebody sees you and you see the person and yeah, the police officer can say it's okay. And even like maybe baby buggies or baby wagons that has a specialized thing over it so that people can go outside as well, get their groceries. It can be used both to prevent to get a disease as well if you have a weak immune system or something like that, as well if you have a disease and you need to get out. And then we can maybe establish a system that you can put your suit in something that disinfects it and you can put it on and put it out and that these things are ready-made. So police officers might have an insignia with a police logo, medical logo, people firefighters have another logo so you can also recognize different functions. And that would be great if it's already been already been made and let's say if more dangerous virus outbreak will come that people can receive these suits either they will be send it or you have to collect it in a nearby storage building or something like that. So that's also an ID. Yes, and these hazmat suits could be included in these warehousing facilities that store emergency medical supplies. This could be one type of supply that exists within those facilities. Yes, I agree. The other ID is, say you have a hospital, mostly when you have a hospital, you have buildings surrounding that hospital, all kinds of big buildings. But the ID is of using nearby buildings as an extra hospital in time of crisis. So instead of just building buildings that is only built for a certain function for a company, you can build it with the routing and the hallways and how the toilets should be and the elevators and everything as if it should be a hospital. But it's now running by a company and when there is a government saying, well, we need that building, then these people can be sent home, they can work at home. And within seconds, maybe with a modular system or you can get stuff out of the walls, you can change it within a few hours into a extra hospital or maybe a quarantine type of hospital. So we have more buildings that are being used in a non-pandemic situation just by companies and in a pandemic situation you can turn them into a hospital. So that's the other ID that came into my mind. Yes, multi-purpose buildings. Exactly. That is promising because I think even now in responding to the COVID-19 pandemic, there will have to be some conversions of buildings for other uses. For instance, with hotels, many people are not traveling right now. They're not using hotel space, but that space is available potentially to hold patients. Of course, there would need to be some adjustments, but hotels are not necessarily optimally designed to be hospitals right now. They have these narrow hallways. You often have bottlenecks like a few elevators to get to a particular floor. If there were wider spaces, more modularity in the rooms, it would have been easier to make that kind of conversion. So focusing on those kinds of building designs is definitely a good idea. Yes, so that you can use those buildings in times of need as a hospital. That's the ID actually. Yes, and then I have the ID of super hospitals. It already starts with the entrance because most hospitals have just a couple of entrances. But this could be a super quarantine hospital that has multiple entrances, more than one. And maybe funneled in different lines with the use of inflatable pillar walls so that people, a larger group, get into smaller groups. And when they go into the entrance, and this ID came to me because I took the elevator and our elevator works. It opens, you go in, it closes, and on the other side, when you're at the right level, it opens and closes again. So maybe you have these systems in these different entrances where one can go in, it closes. The person could be checked if it is infected. And I think in the future we will have systems that can be much quicker to check if somebody is infected. And then it opens and there's a parallel hospital within the other hospitals. So there are actually two hospitals in one building. If it is infected, it goes into the quarantine sections. If it isn't infected, it goes into the non-quarantine section. And then that small compartment just gets disinfected and then the next person can enter. So this way you keep a minimal risk of contaminating people who are there who doesn't necessarily have the virus. It can either be done with a lift system, you can up, maybe go through the quarantine or down, or two doors. One door opens or the other door opens. So that's the other idea I have, the super hospital. And it starts with the entrance because then you can contaminate the virus more. Yes, that's an excellent idea. And I think it should be incorporated within the designs of new hospitals, including the hospitals that the US transhumanist party is advocating to be rapidly constructed in response to this pandemic. I think it's worthwhile to remember that hospitals are multi-purpose facilities. They treat patients with a wide range of conditions and they also provide a lot of diagnostic services like imaging scans of various sorts. So if a patient comes in for one type of service, we definitely don't want that patient to contract an infection from another patient who's coming in to get treated for that infection. But that's a very common problem in hospitals today. In the United States, hospital-acquired infections kill about 90,000 people per year as compared to, for instance, automobile accidents which kill between 35 and 40,000 people per year. And automobile accidents are quite a prominent cause of death in the United States, but hospital-acquired infections are even more so. So if there is a design aspect, an aspect of the architecture of the hospital that could separate the infected patients from everyone else, that could save a lot of lives. Exactly. That's why I thought of this super-hospital to already at the start separating the people who are contaminated and who aren't, so that you keep a minimal risk. Another idea is that the idea of both self-checking if you have the virus, or the idea of getting, I would say it, when you want to get rid of the disease with an, I forget the words, when you have a weaker sickness and you put it in your body and vaccination. Yeah, so that in the future maybe we develop systems instead of going to a doctor to check or get a vaccination, that it can be sent to you at home. It's some sort of a system that you maybe put on your wrist and you get red or blue, you're infected or you aren't, or something, and vaccination is less hurtful and you can self-vaccinate yourself. So maybe that can also be established like a system, because if you do that quicker, we can inform each other quicker, like I am infected or you are not infected, as well as I have a vaccination, et cetera, et cetera. It's much quicker than to go somewhere and also risking other peoples, et cetera. So that's the other idea I have. Yes, indeed. So efforts are already underway to develop these kinds of kits for the COVID-19 virus. There's a scientist named Jonathan Rothberg, who actually has a large yacht that he's using as a research lab. And his goal is to develop an inexpensive COVID-19 test kit that people can get mailed to their homes and they can do the tests in their homes without exposing other people to the risk of infection. So yes, the more opportunities exist for people to perform these tests on themselves within their own space without having to go to a medical facility, the easier it is on the capacity of the healthcare system and the safer it is for everyone else from the standpoint of infectious disease risk. Exactly. And the other thing, the other idea has more to do with the upcoming developments in robotics, because we see a surge in the development of robotics. I saw some robots of Boston Dynamic, which were very impressive. They can walk, they can run, they can even do a backflip. And I think these robots will play a role in our society, especially when a pandemic is going to happen or something like that, because a robot cannot have an infection. So that's the first thing. A robot can always help you. It cannot have an infection. So say somebody might have breathing problems and need to get somewhere. Robots can be sent and this person can be brought to a hospital or somebody, an older person needs to get groceries but has problem with walking. A robot can be helpful to help that older person getting the groceries, et cetera. So robots will also play a large role in the future if we use them wisely. Yes, indeed. And robots, as you mentioned, because they don't transmit infections, can be utilized to help people who are staying at home nonetheless get essential functions. If you have an autonomous vehicle that can be used to deliver food and then you have some sort of delivery robot in that autonomous vehicle who gets up and walks to your door and gets you the food, you have no risk of contracting an infection from that robot or that entire arrangement. Likewise, if you have more manufacturing automated, if you have more food production automated so that you don't need people to go into crowded factories anymore, that also reduces the risk of the spread of infection and more people can choose to remain at home if they want to protect themselves. Exactly. Another idea that I have is that every sovereign state in the world should have like a 50% balance between a producing economy and a thinking economy. Like the Netherlands outsources too much to other countries. I work at the airport and I stock Electronica Star and the thing that strikes me the most is not only during this crisis less people are going to buy the products, but also when we receive our stocks gradually during this crisis it became less and less and less because simply most of the electronics comes from China. So that's also an idea to create all our sovereign states a more balanced thinking and producing economy. So there are enough things that other countries that we outsource we can also do ourselves including making our own electronics including making our own sport shoes and clothings and other stuff. This is also needed because during a crisis some of these medical devices also comes out of other countries and you need to have these medical devices very quick. So it's just smart thinking to have a 50-50% of thinking economy as well as producing economy. So this speaks to robustness of our productive capacity in any given country because of course there's a lot of value to international trade to comparative advantage. If you can produce something less expensively in another country and then import it that can free up resources to produce something else in your own country. But on the other hand there has to be some sort of provision for disruptions in those supply chains like right now. There's no international travel anymore essentially and some goods may still be coming in but even the flow of goods has been greatly disrupted because of this pandemic. So what does one do in that situation there has to be some sort of backup capacity if a country is cut off from the rest of the world involuntarily for whatever reason. It still has to be able to produce the necessities of life as well as the widest range of possible tools, devices, components for devices so that everyday life and essential functions can keep operating. Exactly that's very great because although it's good to have trade with other countries it's also good to consider that some of these crisis can disrupt it and if your economy is let's say 80% of thinking economy and 20% only producing economy you're going to have a problem. And that's why I believe they should be more balanced, a little bit more bluer than we should be. Another idea is we need to have like a central place, a central could be the internet, let's say a black box where people can send in their IDs, tell their IDs, or maybe write down the IDs, and that we can collect these IDs and build upon these IDs, improve these IDs, maybe an A and a B ID doesn't work but together it creates a C ID so that we have this collective thing of IDs that we can gather and we can gather information and with this information we can turn it into wisdom. I think it's best to listen to each other's IDs and to improve it because that way we are going to figure out how to get this crisis done. So to fix this crisis just by listening to IDs first because now there's too much chaos, nobody has a great ID, everybody is telling each other it's that fault, it's that fault, it's that fault but we have to start with IDs and collecting those IDs. Without those IDs nothing will happen, it always starts with an ID. So that's one of the IDs to have some platform where people can center IDs and that maybe people maintain that platform and try to filter it and analyze it and think that could be very smart and that could be smart so that we have these IDs and that they don't get lost because there are a lot of people in their homes now who might have great IDs but they don't know where to put their IDs or who to tell them to because they only have great IDs and they don't have a million dollar company to execute all these IDs so we need to have one platform where we can collect all these IDs. Yes and the US transhumanist party has endeavored to serve as that platform by means of its exposure periods when we have policy deliberations we always open the opportunity up for people to contribute their ideas over a certain period of time here because we are dealing with a time sensitive situation. We've allowed seven days for people to post their ideas on our website on the post for our emergency seven day exposure period for platform vote number eight but often we would give 15 days or up to 30 days depending on the subject matters discussed and how many areas we're seeking to cover. And in the future we're going to continue following this process having more of these exposure periods so that people are able to contribute their suggestions and then as you said there's a process for evaluating them for putting them on the ballot for our members to vote on. Members can propose various options for wordings or policy provisions and then the vote is done using the ranked preference approach so people can rank order all of the options according to what they favor relative to other possibilities. Yeah that would be very smart because some people are just great at thinking of great IDs, other people are more talented in executing these IDs so if we cooperate with each other we might get good results. And the last thing I kind of said all my IDs it's not that much but it's powerful is the ID of in terms of vaccines and stuff like that to protect the vaccination because if somebody is going to patent a certain type of vaccination that basically means that somebody can stock that into a refrigerator and that others cannot use it. So the ID of protecting things that really can save mankind from more deaths. The ID of making laws and agreements about what can be patented and what cannot be patented and is protected. So that is also very important to realize that some things is dangerous if we put a patent on it even though people might have egos and want to keep it to themselves. It's just too dangerous and that we should work together all these people who are doing research about this virus whether it's laboratories or people who try to figure out how this virus works and that we can keep this community going without putting the facts in if somebody discovered into the refrigerator and nobody can use it or only a special kind of group can use it or what have you. So we need some sort of protection that humanity can always use a vaccine if needed. Yes indeed and I completely agree with you often medical patents can be an impediment to the spread of a particular cure or treatment because it becomes artificially expensive and artificially limited in its supply. So to counter that the U.S. Transhumanist Party has proposed greatly shortening the timeframes of most medical patents but I also think it should be worthwhile to consider ways to get treatments or preventive measures like vaccines developed without any patents and find other ways to compensate the developers for instance bounties instead of giving an exclusive right to produce and profit from something give an immediate large payment to the developer. If you develop some advance you should be compensated for it but why not give you the money right now in exchange for making that treatment available for anybody to manufacture if they have the ability. So private corporations governments small facilities with for instance biohacking enthusiasts who want to maybe even modify that vaccine to a certain extent. There have been biohacking labs that have been able to cheaply reverse engineer a lot of common drugs for example that would have cost tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. But in many countries this is illegal because it either infringes on a patent or the regulatory authorities wouldn't approve of that. And I think there needs to be a lot more flexibility if the knowledge about how to safely and effectively manufacture a given treatment or preventive measures out there people should be allowed to use that knowledge to help prevent or mitigate disease. Exactly yeah and and if you do that. The vaccines can be spread much faster if you communicate what you know about each other different companies maybe also government or a cooperation between companies and government and the outcome is more important that people are getting these vaccines. Then just the ego of course if somebody discovers it all credit and the name and the last name will be shown probably a Nobel Prize okay. But that it keeps open source that everybody can kind of use it if you do that it's far more better than just close it in and put it in the refrigerator and only be used by certain types of people or what have you because. It's better for mankind. These are actually all my ideas I have thus far. Yes indeed well thank you Sylvester I greatly appreciate you offering these ideas for our consideration. What I will do is include many of these ideas in the exposure period and prepare them for a forthcoming vote by the United States Transhumanist Party. Again voting begins on Wednesday March twenty fifth and it will go for three days so if you're a member of the U.S. Transhumanist Party anywhere in the world you would be able to vote on these proposals and I think it's fitting because the entire world is dealing with this pandemic right now. And many of these are solutions that could be applied in any country because any country can use improved infrastructure more resilience greater access to treatment greater social support for people who are affected by this pandemic. So I'm glad that we are having more and more of these channels of communication across borders because even though we can't travel across borders right now with the technology we have available at our disposal we can still have the free flow of ideas and that Exactly yes important aspect. Yes true yeah. Yeah that wasn't I've nothing more else to say so maybe you can finish it up by saying something important that you think needs to be said in this conversation. Yes indeed well for me this entire situation highlights the vast importance of emphasizing public health and longevity as a key priority for our economy and for our society this has been under emphasized in many economies up to now. But we have seen the consequences of not emphasizing it. We have health care systems strained in many countries that were supposed to have advanced economies and advanced medical systems. But they were indeed just in time systems systems that tried to optimize themselves for certain levels of typical demand but they did not anticipate extraordinary demand and furthermore it's important to recognize the number one risk factor for COVID-19 as well as many other common infections is biological aging. People who are biologically old are by far more likely to suffer serious complications and death from COVID-19 and other infections. Every single year in the United States alone 37,000 people on average died from influenza. Sometimes older people succumb to the common cold and it is a tragedy but if we can bring this problem of biological aging under control then many fewer people will succumb to infections. And this is one reason why the U.S. Transhumanist Party is proposing at least a $100 billion funding package per year to anti-aging research. This has to begin now in order to alleviate the damage from future pandemics. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I want to thank you for listening to what I have to tell. And I hope it might be of use and yeah, that's it. I don't have anything else more to say than that. And yeah, I just want to thank you for listening for what I have to say. Well, thank you, Sylvester, for having this conversation with me for offering these ideas. I think all of our viewers enjoyed what you had to say today. Thank you. I bid you farewell. Farewell. Yes, live long and prosper.