 Greetings, Lujban friends! In the last video, I translated the second sentence of the Hobbit, and I went ahead and opened myself up to some creative criticism, and I'm glad to say that I learned a lot, and I got some really useful advice. First of all, in the comments, and second of all, in the Lujban chat, so I just wanted to go over that, because I think there are a lot of good points and good alternative translations. So the first point was made by commenter microkernel, who says that there is a nice word called banzu, which means that x1 is sufficient for the purpose of x2, and it sort of captures a little better the meaning of the English. English, it basically says nothing in it to sit down on. My translation was zero things with the purpose of for sitting upon, but by using banzu instead of secosmu, you would get zero objects sufficient for sitting on. So in other words, there literally is nothing to sit on, or there literally is not nothing to sit on, like a chair would have purpose sitting on, but a rock would not, but a rock is certainly sufficient for sitting on. So banzu is actually quite a nice usage instead of secosmu. Let's see, aced gravity commented with a few points. One of them was using the word klahu. Klahu, if we look that up, it means x1 is without x2, and I was using not containing zero things. So of course that double negative is always going to be confusing. Not klahu would mean not without things. So not, well of course there is kind of a double negative in there, but it makes a little more sense than saying not containing zero. Not without, and then low banzu, bello nu zutze. Not without things sufficient for sitting on. So that was also a nice word to find. Ace gravity also translated the last sentence. It was a hobbit hole, and that means comfort in a really nice, concise fashion, which I like. And it goes ka ridder hobi kevna tefihe lo nu kufna. So ka it ridder hobi kevna was a hobbit hole. Tefihe is a modal tag. It comes from tefinti, finti means that x1 creates object x2 for purpose fx3. Te takes that x3 position and puts it into the x1 position. So tefinti would mean x1 is an object made for purpose x2. So tefihe is a modal tag, meaning made for purpose whatever. And in this case, it's this lo nu kufna, which is basically an infinitive meaning to comfort or for comforting. So in short, it was a hobbit hole made for comfort, which I really like. It's very nice and a lot less wordy than my awful translation. He also points out that there really is no need for shu whenever you use ka, and the reason is that ka is actually a prosumpti, like me, like doh. So everywhere that I use ka, it's just as if I used me. I don't have to use shu because there is no reason to, there is no way that ka could bleed into the salbury of the sentence. So ka na rigni, ka na sudga, and so on. So that is definitely something that I would just do right away, because that's very useful. And then we had Keldwick-Chelvin responded with their own complete translation. And I'd like to go over some of the differences and interesting points of that translation. So the first thing that was translated was, in a hole in the ground, there lived a hobbit. Now I went through contortions in the very first video about how to say this. And the reason that I went through contortions is that I did not use the place markers, fa, fe, fi, fo, and fu. These are markers or tags that you can tag sumpti with that basically mean this goes in the x1 position or this goes in the x2 position. So when you tag a sumpti with fa, what that basically means is it doesn't matter where the sumpti is, it's actually going to be in the x1 position. Fe would be, it doesn't matter where the sumpti is, it's going to be in the x2 position. And because I avoided that, I was not able to move the sumpti around. So in this case, while Nihou is basically a paragraph separator, but fe lo kevna be lo tum sfa, that means in the x2 position is going to be a hole, a hole in the ground. So they use the bet construction rather than the tanru that I use, tum sfa kevna, which is fine. Shuhabzhu and then fa lo ridochobi. So basically what this means is you can't, by just reading this, you can't really say this means in a hole in the ground. You can only say a hole in the ground was indwelt by a hobbit colloquially in a hole in the ground, there lived a hobbit. So it's not that, it's not that I don't like the translation. I mean, I understand the translation and it's probably, it's probably idiomatic lojban to do this. I just, obviously in English, I'm used to using prepositions before sumpti, essentially. And this to me doesn't have the preposition in it, so I'm not quite sure where the sentence is going. Now to be fair, Latin is kind of the same way, right? Because you can reorder Latin based on whether it's an accusative or a nominative and so on. So sometimes you really do have to wait for the verb in order to fully translate the sentence and that's perfectly valid. I'm just not used to it. You know, my first language is in English and I've never really learned any second language or if or, you know, even if I tried, I always failed miserably. So anyway, the next part is the part where I really learned something interesting. So here's that fa again, right? So basically, we're talking about la kevna, the whole. We're not talking about it yet. But what we're saying is namabla, which means not, did I use mabla? No, I didn't. So let's look up mabla. Mabla is a cursed or deplorable. Which is which is fine. It stinks. It sucks. I probably wouldn't use it, but it's a reasonable word to use. It's deplorable. So not a deplorable, I guess that could be nasty in in the in the more human sense. You know, if you're a nasty person, it means you're kind of despicable and deplorable. I probably wouldn't apply it to a hole in the ground, but that's okay. Let's go with it. So not a deplorable. Now here we're using jet. Now I thought that jet was just for Tanru. And it turns out, and this is mentioned nowhere in the complete Lajban language and nowhere that I can find. And yet the parser accepts this jet is an afterthought for brihla, not just for Tanru, but for brihla themselves. So it's perfectly reasonable to say namabla, jet oljinsa, jet shilmo. And now that's the entire celebrate. Fa la kevna. And fa la kevna, of course, applies to the entire celebrate and the entire celebrate is nasty and dirty and wet. So this is really nice. I used gihe and then of course I had to repeat na. They used oljinsa instead of tohe jinsa. Tol is a prefix that you can add to a word that basically is the same thing as tohe, meaning the polar opposite of. So toljinsa, unclean. So that was nice. So here's one other interesting thing that I've noticed. And I kind of agree with this. I mentioned that we have jhe here. Now jhe means and, so it means all of these things altogether, simultaneously. So we're saying that it's not a nasty, dirty, wet whole. Nasty and dirty and wet. Whereas the na comes outside that. So again, you know, I made the point that if you have not a and b and c, well that simply means not a or not b or not c. When apparently what I really wanted was not a or b. In other words, it's not any of these things even alone. So it's not just, you know, it's not even a nasty whole. It's not even a dirty whole. It's not even a wet whole. And I think actually now that I think of it, I think this is probably the better way of putting things because what Hulkin is doing here is he's he's drawing a contrast between two extremes. So the one extreme is a whole that is nasty, dirty, wet, filled with the end of worms and an oozy smell. All of those together. And the other extreme is that it's a dry bare sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat. That's the other extreme. So he's basically saying it's neither this extreme nor that extreme. In other words, it's not anything in between. And that's why probably jet should go inside and not should go outside. Whereas my translation had not for each one of these things. And then I ended them together. So I think that in the end, this is probably the better translation and probably the more true to Tolkien's words. Okay, so let's move on to the second part. Ijenai, this means and not. So remember that Ije basically is a Breedy connector with and and in order to negate the second Breedy, you just suffix with nai. So Ijenai and not ka it Vasru was filled Los Pisa. Now let's see what Spisa is. Spisa is a piece. So Spisa bello, sure new pieces of worms, which again is a reasonable translation. I kind of like ends a little better because you know, really what Tolkien is talking about is the wiggly end of the worm sort of sticking out of the walls pieces, not quite as Andy, but that's okay, we can go with it. Gihai and Der Specku, Sepanchi, which is basically the same thing that I used. So now Ijenai and not Kuhi. So Ijenai and not Kuhi, however, so in contrast, right, and there is that yet. So yet was nicely translated into Kuhi. Ijenai, Kuhi basically means nor yet, Sudga dry, jet. And again, there's that Brievla connector. Jadashau. So what's Jadashau? Now that would be the word for bear. And let's look up Jadashau plain. Sure. That's that's probably better than I had a bear. Let's see, I translated it as where is it? Kunti. And what was Kunti again? Kunti, empty bear. I think bear probably, probably, sorry, Jadashai plain, plain probably gets more of the nuance of bear, as opposed to, you know, empty, completely empty, which doesn't really make any sense. So I like that. Shanri, so Shanri, Shanri. Okay, I think this is supposed to say Shanre. There's a rule about Gismu that says that to Gismu cannot be identical with the exception of the last vowel. So this was supposed to be Shanre. So not Sandy Gihai and Klahu. So there's Klahu again. And without Tuha. So Tuha is an interesting schmafo. It's something that I that I never really got into. And I don't really like to use that much. But it has a great deal of uses. Tuha is basically an abstraction. And it basically says it basically means something to do with or something about or, you know, some kind of action to go along with. So for example, Loser Zutze. Now, if we look up Zutze, which is the sitting thing, right? So set Zutze would basically mean a sitting surface. Okay. So what this means is without something to do with sitting surfaces. Luhu is the terminator for that. And then of course is the connector. And here we've got another Tuha, Loser Schietka, which would be, you know, nothing to do for with eating. So without, again, it's it's difficult for me to kind of understand the way this is being used. We know what the translation is supposed to be. Nothing, nothing to sit down upon. And basically what this means is nothing to do with sitting surfaces, and nothing to do with eating, which again, kind of kind of goes along with the translation in that, you know, you have no sitting surfaces and you have and you are devoid of things for eating. It doesn't really specify anything about what those are. Again, I'm not really that used to using Tuha. So I can't really comment a great deal about that until I, you know, sort of understand more uses of it. And then we have cut reader Choby Kevna, it was a hobbit hole, Ije, and Loduhu. So what is Duhu? Duhu is an abstractor. And it basically means and that means that or and that means Loduhu gohi basically means go he means the previous breedy, which is the fact that it was a hobbit hole. Shunibli, nibli logically necessitates, in other words, it implies loka, the property of kufra, comfort. So what we're saying here is that it was a hobbit hole. And what that means, what that logically entails is comfort. So that's that's a nice, a nice another nice compact way of putting it. But honestly, I think that this really is the winner right here. I really like this this way of putting it. So anyway, that's all I wanted to really go into all the feedback that I got. It was really excellent. I learned a lot of new words, a lot of new idioms. And I definitely have questions about tuha. I really need to understand the usage of this more because I've seen it a lot of times in chat. So anyway, I guess that's about it. It seems like people do want me to continue with the third sentence. I have gotten a warning that the Tolkien estate is is pretty rabid about protecting their copyright, which means that for all I know this video is going to be taken down because it actually contains a few sentences out of the Hobbit. I am not going to say anything about that because otherwise I will just get just completely apoplectic and incensed. So anyway, that's it. And I will see you on the next video.