 Good evening and welcome to episode 233 of the Private Property Podcast. I'm your host, Ozaman Domoq, Khumailo. It's a Thursday edition of the Private Property Podcast and we're quite excited to have you with us. Unfortunately, many of us are probably being lurched right now, just as I am. But the show always continues. We certainly do make a plan to make sure that we bring you the hottest property show in South Africa because we want to get a better sense of how we can best navigate our property journey by all is, of course, talking to a great expert who can help us on our property issues. To all our new viewers, welcome to the show. You certainly must start on a lot of great episodes. So do make sure that you go to our Facebook or YouTube page to catch up on all the other great episodes that we have brought to your screens. And of course, for our regular viewers, welcome back. Thank you so much for tuning in. You know how we do it every single weekday at 7 p.m. We, of course, tackle a hot property topic where we better understand how we can tackle the issue and grow our property knowledge. And of course, one of the other things that we absolutely love doing here on private property is, of course, making the property circle bigger. I am, of course, talking about the whole host of other shows that we bring to your screens every single weekday at 8 p.m. On Mondays and Thursdays, you can look forward to Chad bringing you the Home Shopper's show. So if you are in the market for a new property, well, that is the show that you must tune into. And for all of you at home who are considering growing into agriculture, maybe you've started your own little veggie garden at home during lockdown. And now slowly starting to explore different ways that you could potentially commercialize your little hobby that is now sort of growing on you. They do make sure that you tune into Umbalino. Go on The Farming Podcast every Tuesday and Thursday. And I saw that Umbali actually won an award earlier this week. She was actually named one of the 100 most influential South Africans by Avan's media. So congratulations to our very own Umbali Noko for that accolade. So do catch her. She's an award-winning farmer. Do catch her later on as it is a Thursday this evening on the show, where she will tackle the latest in agriculture and our agricultural needs. And of course, on Wednesdays, Mr. Klassen brings you the first time Home Buyer's show that talks to other owners, current owners, who have walked that first time home buying journey and are now sharing some of the knowledge that they have gained from their experience and how they've gone about growing their property portfolio. So if you want to find out some of the mistakes that you should probably avoid and how other first time home buyers navigated that journey, then do make sure that you tune into the first time Home Buyer's show on Wednesday at 8 p.m. And if you'd like to be featured on the show, then slide into our DMs and Issy Klassen and the team will be in touch with you to see if we can't feature you on the show. Now, one of the other things that you know we do absolutely regularly here on the show. I almost said daily. I mean, we're doing it daily, certainly on this show, is of course doing a great competition. We're currently running our 12 week long Sherlock Holmes hunt. And all you have to do for the Sherlock Holmes hunt is of course crack the riddle that we share on our social media platforms. Every single Monday for the past nine weeks, we've been sharing a clue with you at home and we want you to crack the riddle and let us know where it leads you. Now, this week's clue is one that I think is actually quite easy for people who are in the KZRN region and it is from Onglorty to Westbrook. The apartment is one to watch in HD with three rooms for under three and space for two sets of wheels. Now, if you think you know where this property might be, then do go to our website on www.privateproperty.co.za and enter the competition. Not only do you stand a chance of walking away with a 5,000 round voucher every single Friday, but we also make sure that we do a spot price giveaway on Wednesday and Thursday where we give away 500 round in cash. And the way to redeem that 500 round in cash is to make sure that you're watching us live and you have to wait until the end of the show in order to drop us a message to let us know that you are indeed watching. Now, one of the things that's happening, I know a lot of us in South Africa are slowly counting to that one-year anniversary of when we went into lockdown. And for those of you who have been watching us from day one, you would know that we started with episode one of the Private Property Podcast when we were into lockdown and having that conversation with Gils Spirling as well as Uzziakiniyeza around how tenants and landlords can navigate the lockdown together. What kind of conversations do they need to be having and how they can both be proactive in order to get through the lockdown? Now, I know a lot of us naively thought that we may only have 21 days. Well, this is certainly the longest 21 days. I'm sure all of us have experienced. So as we get ready for that one-year anniversary of the show, I want to hear from you at home. What would you like to see for that big one-year anniversary celebration? Over the last year, we certainly celebrated the big milestone episodes from your episode 50 to episode 100 and 150 and 200. What would you like to see for the one-year anniversary of the show? If you have any great ideas that you want us to certainly do on air, then do share them with us. Perhaps there's a particular giveaway that you would like us to also have. We can't give away a property just yet. I know that I've always been saying one day we'll give away a property, not just yet. So if you do have a particular giveaway that you would like us to squeeze in, drop us a message down here below. And I, as you all know, I simply love doing giveaways. So I'll definitely make sure that the team and I work on it in order to put it off later on this month. Well, this evening, I'm joined by somebody who needs no introduction to the private property podcast. We have a very regularly one of my favorite women to talk property with and joined this evening by Katis Van Veet, who's a co-founder and a property investor at PropertyPick. And we're exploring property investment as a business model and how to grow your income from property. Katis, good evening and thank you so much for joining us this evening. Good evening, Zamaal. Once again, thank you for having me. Always a pleasure to be on the show with you. Thank you. It's almost such a pleasure to talk property with you, Katis. I mean, I think one of the big things in the views at Hogan Dore, I love talking property with women in particular. I mean, I love talking property all the time. I probably spend a good 18 of not 20 hours of my day, you know, doing some other property related things. But talking property with women, I think it's just that extra special and being able to see women sort of navigating the property industry in the property space and thriving through it is always just so great. And I think one of the great things about the conversation that we're about to have this evening is almost letting viewers, you know, get a good sense. And especially those who want to walk the property investment journey, those who are already walking the property investment journey, how they can almost best get a good sense of how property investment, you know, is a journey and it's a marathon, not a sprint. I know that one of the mistakes, I mean, retrospectively, now I can see how does a bit of a lesson is that I sort of treated it like a sprint and you wanted it to just go quickly. But as you kind of grow up and you're in it for longer, you realize that actually this is one of those long term things that require, you know, you to be very patient and have a fundamentally different perspective on how to handle things. But before we get into the nitty gritty's hand is perhaps first, you know, explain to our viewers at home what exactly we mean when we say, you know, property, when we say we want to look at property investment as a business model, because I think a lot of people right now are looking at different ways that they can get into the property space. And some of them, I think, might have the wrong preconceived notions around the kind of returns that they can quickly make. So what exactly do we then mean when we talk about property investment as a business model and the ways that we can make an income through property? Sure. So Zama, I think, you know, it's so important that if you want to seriously pursue property as an investment strategy, you are going to have to look at it as a business. And that means that you're going to have to have a mindset shift. And the reason for that is because if you just treat your property, you know, as a hobby, that's the type of results that you're going to be getting. And I'm sure you've heard the saying that if you treat anything like a hobby, you're going to be getting hobby results. And of course, because we want to pursue property investment as a strategy that can help us generate additional income. It's important for us to then see it as a business from the beginning, because when you look at it as a as a business model, as a business opportunity, what you start thinking about already is that there is an income element and there's, of course, a cost element and then there's a profit. There's a profit element. So, of course, we want to ensure that when we invest in property, and I mean, you've heard me say it and I'm sure some of the other case that you've had on your show as well is that you make your money when you buy. So we always want to ensure that we are looking at our property deals from that perspective, that we want to go into the deal to generate profit income irrelevant of what strategy we are going to be pursuing. Now, you know, can it's actually like the decision that you make around looking at property investment, not just as a hobby, but as a business? I'm going to, you know, confess and as I always do confess on the show, some of the mistakes that I've made along the my own property investment journey. When I started out, I certainly looked at property investment as a journey. It was just the side thing that I had an interest in. I knew I wanted to go into property and I wanted to own a lot of properties. I knew one day I wanted, you know, to be a property developer and have my own block of flats, but it was not a thing that I sort of strategically set down and looked at. Now, I ran my numbers in as far as making sure that I will, in fact, be able to, you know, afford the place and will be able to pay itself. I think with some of the properties, the numbers that were run were not as good as they should have been. So even the due diligence kind of lacked along the way. So when we then look at sort of people who are probably like myself, I was a couple of years ago who end up almost accidentally getting into it. Or when you started, you were not as strategic. It was the sort of side thing that, you know, you want a property and, you know, you have a tenant or two, but you're not treating it as you're saying as a business. What should we be then doing? I'll say to transition from, you know, treating it like a hobby and putting those steps in essentially turning it into a business. So just to share from my perspective, and I mean, similar to you, you know, when I started my property investing journey, I was in full time employment at the time. And like many people out there, we just heard that property investing is an opportunity and it's an investing opportunity. And I mean, I didn't know anything about making my money when I buy. I didn't know which areas to buy in. I just thought that, OK, I need to acquire property. And, you know, that's me starting my property investing journey. And you know what? I've really, my mindset has been renewed through getting the right level of education. And I really think that's where it starts. Starts and I mean, I say it from time to time, but it's so important. And that's what's really helped me to shift from the mindset of thinking I'm a property investor to actually becoming a property investor. It's because I needed to learn a few things along my journey. I needed to understand what it means to actually look at your property investing as a business opportunity. And if I didn't go on the right level of training and also surround myself with the right mentors and coaches, I wouldn't have been in that position to actually empower myself through property where now it's become an opportunity for me to actually generate income and use it as a vehicle to achieve my financial goals. So it really starts with getting the right level of information, the right level of knowledge and then, you know, really starting your journey from that point onwards. I am this evening joined by Candice van Veek, who's a property investor and the co-founder at Property Pick. And we're looking at property investment as a business model and how to grow your income through property. We're looking at, you know, you know, getting a good sense, rather, of looking at your property investment journey like a business. And I think one of the great things that I would certainly or one of the insights I'd like to hear from you at home, if you are probably like myself and you started, I'll say, accidentally in the property space, what have been some of the active steps that you have now taken to sort of transition from treating your property investment as a hobby to now treating it as a business and running it as a business, because I know that when you start sort of, you know, you just kind of doing it, there are so many different things that you let slip and so many things that you are not on top of. Whereas when you're running it as a business from the get go, you know that you need to make, you know, a profit and there are certain things that you put in place in order for you to essentially grow your business. And Candice, I actually want us to, you know, explore that, that when we now look at our property investment as a business, what are we then essentially doing differently? Because there might be viewers at home who are thinking, well, you know, I watch the podcast regularly, I go into the website, I look at that bar section and I know how to run my numbers. I know what questions to ask when I'm looking for a property. I've done the research in terms of the rental and whatnot. So I know that this property is essentially going to be paying for itself. And maybe they do have that rental property or two that are, you know, almost fully paying themselves, paying themselves. How, when we say then you must run it like a business, what are some of the systems that you think to be now need to start putting in place that look essentially slightly differently or fundamentally differently from those who are probably still running it as a hobby? For sure. So one of the first things that you also need to do is if you're now going to be pursuing it as a business is that you need to register a business. So what we call, you know, so you need to consider what structure you're going to be registering as part of you now pursuing your property, investing as a business. You know, so some of you will decide to register PTY and some of you may decide to register trust structures. It really just depends on where you are on your journey, what your ultimate goal is. And of course, you need to ensure that, you know, part of your power team. So the property professional that you will be working with will always be an accountant. You'll always be working with a tax specialist. You also need to have a trust specialist that is part of your initial power team. And you need to start engaging with your professionals, with your power team to identify what is going to be the best structure for you, obviously, based on your financial goals that you're wanting to pursue in the future. But let's just say, for example, OK, you are at a place where you've done all of that and you've not decided that you're going to be registering a PTY. OK, that is important. And, you know, it's also important that from the beginning, you also need to consider possibly maybe registering more than just one company as far as your property investing is concerned. And let me just share with you why I say that. So some of you might decide to pursue capital flips as your main investment strategy, so you want to be buying and selling of you want to be buying and selling properties, you know, in the short medium term. So you would then need to ensure that that particular strategy is then done via a business, so that will be a separate business that you will register. And the reason why we do this, and of course, some of the experts that you're going to be working with will share with you that, you know, it is also for to minimize tax implications, and there are various other reasons involved. So they'll be able to give you more of the breakdown in terms of the pros and the cons. But what I'm just trying to share with you is that it's important to start looking at it from that perspective, because when I got started, I just didn't mind the visual capacity. I didn't know anything about minimizing tax implications. And I didn't realize what impact it would have on my finances. You know, later down when I did get educated and I started pursuing it as a as a business. And then the other thing that you also want to consider is that for those of you are looking maybe to generate cash flow. So for those of you don't know what cash flow is, this is now when you start acquiring rental properties and you are wanting to generate profit income through those deals, so you find a property, you rent it out to a tenant and the income then obviously is more than what the expenses are on the deal. And as a result, you're making a little bit of a profit income, maybe small, maybe big, but you're starting to generate income through your deals. Now, if you are planning and this is what I say to my coaching students is that if you are planning to hold your properties for medium to long term, then it's best that you do it in a separate entity, because it's two different business models that you are pursuing. You know, the one is just quick returns in and out and it's obviously got its own, you know, system attached to it. And then the other one is more for long term. And of course, some of you even want to leave a legacy maybe for the future generation, so it just makes it easier and cleaner if you can actually separate it from the beginning from that perspective. So I think, Zama, the first thing definitely is to consider, you know, actually registering a business for your property journey. You know, Candice, as you were talking earlier and just mentioning how one of the things that you definitely did earlier on in your journey was buying certain properties through your personal capacity as opposed to under another legal entity and later on realizing the essentially the effects that that has the tax implications that that has and how it was essentially a costly exercise to do. I again, and I've said that I've shared this with our viewers at home, certainly fell into that same, I'll say trapped, but it wasn't really a trap because at the time didn't know any better and didn't know to, you know, buy a property under a certain legal entity. And I think those are some of the mistakes that so many of us make early on that sometimes do you cost us some money? I know some some property experts or even property coaches will say, look, if those first few were bought in your individual capacity, maybe it's just three or four, leave them for now just because, you know, transferring them might be quite the world actually not even might be will be a costly exercise. So if you're able to leverage off of them and buy additional properties and now in a legal entity, then rather explore that. But of course, this kind of speaks to some of the mistakes that not just you and I have made, but I know other viewers at home have probably made along their property investment journey. I think before I ask you what mistakes we should probably try to avoid when we are clear that we are going into the investing in property as a business as opposed to I'm just going to do one as a hobby. Before I even ask you what mistakes we should avoid, I'd like to hear from you. Perhaps if you can share with us one mistake that you've made along your journey that you'd like to share with us and what that particular mistake taught you along the way. So definitely one of the mistakes is definitely buying in the wrong structure, you know, buying in my personal capacity. That was a mistake, but it was obviously it was also ignorance. I didn't know any better. Now, the reason why it's so important is because as you're going to be building your portfolio going forward, you must remember that if you're buying your personal capacity, it's going to affect your affordability going forward. Now, when you start out early in your journey, the banks will consider the business structure that you have in place, but they will also look at your situation, you know, so what is your current affordability? And we all know that they look at, you know, what are what are the liabilities against your name, what income do you receive every month or every year? And also, you know, what costs are going out, what expenses do you have? So it's important to know that if you currently have a home loan against your name, that is obviously affecting your affordability. Whereas you could have been using that access, that affordability that you have access to, you could have been you could have been using that to actually buy a property that can now bring money into your pocket. And that's what I really mean. That was a that was a mistake for me because I didn't know any better. So I just bought a property and it wasn't an income generating property. You understand, so it wasn't bringing money into my pocket because I bought it at the wrong price and it was just not a very good decision. But OK, I was able to turn the situation around a few years down the line after I got some education. But what I'm saying is we aren't always that fortunate where we're able to, you know, turn some situations around. So you always want to ensure that you're doing everything right from the beginning, especially you are viewers out there who are starting your journey now. You know, you haven't maybe even bought any property. So I would say do it right from the beginning and consider registering a property business and then start buying your properties through that particular property business. And obviously it will determine, you know, which strategy you're going to be using. Is it going to be the cash flow strategy for long term or capital flips? And of course, there are some decisions that you also need to make as part of that journey. And to our viewers at home, I also like to hear from you. Some of the mistakes that you made along your journey when it comes to investing in property, I think, you know, Candice and myself will be sharing some of the mistakes that we've made along the way. And they do come to bite you sometimes. And oftentimes you make these mistakes to not because you already know better. And as Candice, you know, so rightfully points out, sometimes it's ignorant. Simply did not know perhaps you started and I share this part a lot on the show when I started on my property journey. Unfortunately, there weren't platforms like the private property podcast that was giving regular content when it comes to all things raising to property and helping us better make good decisions on our property journey so that we go and make some of these mistakes. Now, Candice, I did say, what are some other sort of common mistakes or perhaps not even so common mistakes that viewers at home should be mindful of to not make when they are very clear that they are going to be walking the property investment journey and of course, for the long term. Yes. So it's important to know that the numbers don't lie. You know, so when you are considering that property deal opportunity, the numbers don't lie. So you need to run your numbers. So you need to ensure, especially for you, for those of you who are starting out, you need to know all of the costs that are involved in terms of purchasing that property. And you know, I have some students that have come to me at times and they come with a deal and then they say to me, Candice, I've tapped into an awesome opportunity and I believe this, it is in a good area and people are wanting to rent in that particular area and that's all wonderful. But then I ask, show me the numbers, let's work through the numbers. What do the numbers say? Because that's what I want to see at the end of the day. And I mean, I don't just help them in that area, but for myself as well, you need to look at your numbers, you know. And of course, yes, you need to understand the dynamics with regards to the area, is it a good area? Well, is there demand? Because that's something that you also need to understand. Also, one of the mistakes that I also made early in my journey is that. And I mean, I'm still dealing with one of these issues up to today is that it's also so important that when you buy in, let's say, for example, a sectional title complex, so you're looking to buy maybe a one bedroom or two bedroom, where are you buying? Are you buying, you know, on the top level or are you buying on the bottom level? Because I'm finding in one of my with one of my properties that I have at this time, and I've had it for some time, is that I am. Generally, I have a challenge finding tenants who want to stay in the top unit. And I mean, this specific complex has got three different levels. You know, so those are the dynamics that you need to be aware of when you start looking at deals as well. So you need to understand what the demand is. And then also, what will your your client, your tenant be looking for? What are they looking for? And every every area, every tenant has got different needs and you need to understand. So you need to also work with, you know, your your your letting agents in the area. You also need to find good letting agents. Not all of them are good. I must also say that. So and that's probably another tip that we can give us to say that you really need to do your homework. Don't just go and work with the first letting agent that you come across or the first property management company that you come across. Ensure that you do your your homework, you do your reference checks. And you also want to know, you know, how many tenants they have within their their database. And there's a lot of questions that come with that. But it's also important to ensure that you work with the right professionals within that area, because otherwise you can also end up making bad decisions. Because a lot of people who start out generally think that, you know, maybe the letting agent that they're working with is the professional in this instance, and they're going to be giving them good advice and good guidance as far as purchasing that next property is concerned. And it's not always the case. You must remember that when it comes to your interest, you have your best interest at heart always. And you need to ensure that you look out for yourself first. And that is why it's important, you know, to expose yourself to obviously the right teams and also like I always say, the right education will help you to make the right decisions as you move your journey forward. But yeah, so Zama, I think those are just some of the things, you know, people can just think about when they start buying that first deal, you know, running the numbers, ensuring that they're buying in the right areas. Also, if they're buying a specific complex, you know, is the top unit the best unit is at the bottom unit, what are people looking for in that particular area? And also, you know, now with having to be so competitive, especially in this market, you know, I mean, COVID has even impacted the the space, the rental space quite a bit as well over the last couple of months. So now it's also important now to start, you know, when you look at that next investment deal is that, remember, a lot of people are also working from home now. A lot of professionals are working from home. So you also need to take that into account, for example, you know, and consider things like, for example, you know, the internet connectivity in the area, you know, is there an opportunity for people to, you know, bring in maybe a space within their home that they can convert into a money office? You know, so there's so many different elements that we need to look at, but you need to look at your tenant and you need to look at what their needs are and then ensure that you're buying in an area or in a complex where those needs will be catered to. Otherwise, I mean, you're going to be buying a property and you're not going to find anyone to range your property. Why? Because the complex right opposite yours has got more of the things that they are looking for, you know, so there are some of those things to consider. We're taking your questions and comments this evening as we're talking about property investment as a business model in ways in which we can make money through investing in property. We've got a comment coming from Facebook, from Zimqita, who says also consider changing with the times. Covid-19, especially student accommodation, considering online studies. And it's exactly what Candice was saying, I think making sure that you understand, you know, the area that you're in, the trends that are slowly emerging and what your tenants are essentially going to need. So if you know that you're dealing with students, some of them may still opt to not live at home because perhaps the home environment is not conducive for studying. So they want a place that will have, you know, fiber all the time. No student wants to be buying data at all. So that now becomes a non-negotiable as more and more students are working remotely. Another comment here that I'll actually pose as a question. Candice is coming from one of our top fan gang members, Omar Sashinani, who says, my interest, pay off a bond for residential property or invest that extra money into an additional property. So how do you almost measure whether you should be paying that extra bit every month into a bond that you currently have, or perhaps explore adding another property to your portfolio? OK, so for me personally, so I definitely would not be, you know, paying into the bond immediately or paying extra into the bond. So, you know, what and it also depends what your financial goals are. And it might be different for every single person out there. But the way I am looking at it is that generally when we start investing in property, we're looking for financial freedom or we're looking for financial independence. So that means that you want to start generating income through your property that will eventually take care of all of your monthly expenses or monthly commitments that you have at this time. So if you are in a position to use that extra affordability or that you have at this stage to invest into an income generating property that will be able to bring money into your pocket so that you can already start taking care of some of your monthly commitments, what's going to happen? Your monthly commitments are going to come down. Isn't that so? Because now you've got extra income that is taking care of that. And eventually, you know, all of the income that you're generating from property will be able to take care of all of your expenses. So my view on it is really start with, you know, really taking care of those. What do we call them? High, very expensive type of debt that you might have at this stage, which normally is your short or medium term debt when we're looking at, for example, like personal loans, credit cards, overdraft facilities and those type of things. So I would say be in a position where you can invest into an income generating asset that will be able to generate income for you so that you can take care of some of those, you know, challenges that you have financially in terms of meeting those commitments. And then once you've taken care of that, now you can start looking at, you know, taking care of the bigger debt. So that is just my personal view on it. And this is generally my approach to it. So I'm always looking to generate additional income and the additional income that I'm going to be generating will even be able to help me, you know, settle this bond that I'm currently already wanting to now just take the extra income that I haven't put it in there. So let your money work for you. So let your money go a little bit further than where it is today. If you're just going to be putting it into that home loan that you have to do, what is that going to be doing for you? Unless it's an income generating asset, you understand? So not talking about your personal residence, but you need to find ways and find strategies where your money can now start working harder for you. And that is now when we start looking for additional opportunities to generate income instead of just taking what we have and putting it into one pot. That's not going to be giving us a return in any way. We've got a comment from Natalie LeRoux saying also remember, if you're buying properties as an investment, you need to have home insurance for general repairs. That's an important one. I think sometimes people tend to forget that one. Candice, we're running out of time. But before I let you go, I want to get this question in because I think it's one of those questions that has made the rounds quite a lot. And I think the effects of COVID-19 have also meant that finding those great deals, I'll say, is sometimes either slightly harder for some people. It's slightly easier. Now, inasmuch as we know that it's currently a buyer's market and they acquire a number of first-time home buyers entering the market, but also we are seeing a number of repeat buyers who are adding additional properties to their portfolio. One of the things that I've often struggled with and I know that other property investors sometimes always have to rethink that particular one is when assessing a particular property. Let's just think it's an apartment intersectional title and you're looking at what the price is going to be and all the associated costs. Suppose it so happens that the rental that you're going to be able to attract, let's say it comes to 6,000 rounds for argument sake and the expenses and talking the bond and of course, all the other costs, your levies and rates and taxes. Suppose those come to, let's say, 6,500 rounds. Now, I know that a lot of property coaches would say then you shouldn't go for that deal, you shouldn't be supplementing that extra 500 rounds. Instead, you need to be finding a property where you're making that additional 500 rounds. But I know that there is a whole more probably thinking look, it's already so difficult to find those types of deals, particularly in sectional title communities. How do we then make the decision of whether you're going to buy that particular property? Let's say you're going to need to supplement it by, let's say it's less than 1,000 rounds for argument sake. What are some of the things you need to sort of think through before you buy a property where you would need to supplement some of your own money in order to make sure that all the expenses for that property are covered? Okay, so obviously also depending you're going to be if you're leveraging a home loan facility to buy that property. So I'm speaking from that perspective. So if you are already making a loss on that deal, I would say it's a very bad deal. You must remember that interest rates have come down now. And yes, of course, bond repayments are a lot more attractive. We can get a lot more or access to a lot more because of the interest rates that have come down over the last year and we've seen a drop a couple of times. So yes, now is a great time to invest in property. You've got very good repayments that you are making a loss on the current interest rates that we are experiencing. What is going to happen when the market shifts and we go back to where we were before COVID, which was, I think we were sitting on 10.25 as as as prime rate or 10, 10.5. I can't quite remember that. So in that last setting was 9.75 in general because we had had the few decreases in 2019. So when last year started, I remember it was 9.75. OK, so now think about that. So let's say in a year's time we go back to 9.75. How was that going to affect your numbers today? And I know it's not easy. I mean, I'm a property investor myself. I know it's not easy finding that good deal, you know, but property is a numbers game. And what I mean by that as well is that you are going to have to analyze a lot of deals before you tap into that one deal. But you must also remember that one deal can change your life. You know, so do it right from the beginning. Don't get yourself into a situation where you are now already. You already have a shortfall. You already have to pay into that particular property. Basically, you know, it's not generating any income for you. Because if this if the situation changes and interest rates go up, you're going to be in a very difficult situation. And some of you might find yourself in a situation now where you have to deal with properties being repossessed and that type of thing. So you're trying to avoid, you know, future situations. So if you are in a position where you can let and you've done your and I'm taking into account, obviously, you've done all of your research, you know, you're buying the right property, the right area, the right prices, all of that is in place. You then need to also ensure that if you do have let's say access to some capital that you could potentially put into the deal that can kind of bring your your home loan repayments down, then that's something that you can consider. So if you've got access to additional capital and it's going to make your numbers a lot more attractive, nothing wrong with that. If it's going to be generating, you know, some good profit income for you. And of course, based on your your homework, you know that you are going to always have a tenant. And of course, with the rental escalations taking place, you will be able to embed a profit income as you move forward. Now, you obviously also need to take the current market into account. Because remember, we're still recovering. I mean, we've we've we were in fact, we were in a recession before COVID. COVID has just escalated things a whole lot from that perspective. So we are still recovering as an economy. So you might not necessarily be able to put on 10 percent escalation on your rentals like we did in the past, just because of where people are today. So some of us have had to, you know, reduce that escalation percentage. And that is obviously to accommodate everyone's situation today. So also, don't be too optimistic to think that you can continue, you know, charging the escalations that you did maybe over the last couple of years. You might not necessarily be able to do that over the next year or two years. So we need to take all of those factors into account. So definitely do not buy a property that is taking money out of your pockets today, considering the current interest rates that we have access to. Well, Candice, we're going to leave it there. Otherwise, we I know you and I can, you know, spend quite a lot of time on property property. I think the one final comment I'll sleep in is coming from Moos in Kitapala saying, trying to avoid to buy in areas where explosions are happening, do your homework first. So the big thing and this is also something Candice has been saying throughout our conversation is you want to make sure that you do research, understand not just the property that you want to buy into, but also the area that you're looking to buy into be very clear and what your strategy is going to be and run your property business like a business from day one. Don't make the mistake that so many of us often make by, you know, looking at it first as a hobby, sort of for the first couple of years and potentially even losing money in the process and only waking up later when you're like, actually, I can make money from this if I just put in certain systems in place. Candice, thank you so much for joining us this evening. It's always such a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you so much, Zama. Always a pleasure to be on your show as well. Thank you. And that is Candice Van Veek, who's a property investor and the co-founder at Property Pick. Well, it's a first day, you know, that we give away that 500 grand in cash. We're going to go for a quick break and when we come back, I will be announcing the potential winner of that 500 grand. Do stay on the live so that if we call your name, you can drop us a text down here below to claim that money will be back just after this. Welcome back to episode two hundred and twenty three of the Private Property Podcast. I'm your host, Uzamantouma Kumalo. But it's always great talking property with Candice Van Veek. I know we'll definitely be having her back on the show in the weeks to come. Well, it is that time in the evening where we give away a 500 grand cash prize to one lucky winner. This is of course the spot price for a Sherlock Holmes competition. Now, the potential lucky winner of this 500 grand in cash goes to Zindlin Korsi, Zindlin Korsi. If you are tuned in and watching, drop us a message down here below in order to claim this 500 grand. And if you want to be just like Zindlin Korsi, all you have to do is to enter the Sherlock Holmes competition on our website. That's www.PrivateProperty.co.z. And of course, let us know where the clue leads you. Not only will you stand a chance of walking away with a 5000 round voucher every single Friday, but on Wednesdays and Thursdays, we make the winner's circle even bigger by giving away a 500 grand spot prize. Now, Zindlin Korsi, I'm going to give you a minute to just drop us a message. I'm also waiting to hear from my colleague if Zindlin is in fact on the live and watching us. And if she is, then she will get to walk away with that 500 grand cash prize. Of course, yesterday we had to be lucky winner being Megan from Skull Bay. So we didn't have a roll over in the event where Zindlin is not available. We're going to go to the next person who's potentially going to walk away with that 500 grand in cash. And if they are also not available, then we're going to roll it over where next week, Wednesday, the cash prize that you can walk away with is going to be 1000 rounds. So Zindlin Korsi, if you are watching, do drop us a message down here below. And of course, you're at home. I certainly want to hear from you. And the rest of the team certainly also does. We are, of course, slowly counting down to our one year anniversary of the Private Property Podcast. We're quite excited to be celebrating that milestone. Just yesterday, we're celebrating our one year brand anniversary at Private Property. We went green and we certainly loved all the love that you gave us on our social media, especially here on Facebook and all the green hearts that you tied to us down here below. Well, we want to plan something big for that one year anniversary of the podcast. And I think we certainly want to hear from you at home what you would like to see us pull off. I see that Zindlin is unfortunately not watching us live. And so the next possible winner who's going to be walking away with that 500 grand spot prize goes to Sherene Davids. Sherene Davids, if you are watching alive, drop us a message down here below. The 500 grand cash prize is all yours. We're going to give Sherene another minute or so so that they can drop us a message. And as I was saying, as we get ready for that 100 episode, we're quite excited. And I think one of the great things is we love hearing from you. So we want to hear from you at home. What would you like to see for that one year anniversary show of the Private Property podcast? Is there a particular thing that you'd like us to give away? Because we absolutely love doing giveaways. I think I want to also add a few surprises. So do send us a few suggestions of what you certainly want to see on the show. And we will make sure that we work on it to pull off a spectacular one year anniversary. And of course, we love continuing the conversation around our property journeys, what we're learning and how we're navigating our property journey across our social media platforms. So whether it's on Facebook, on YouTube, on Twitter or on Instagram. And you can follow myself at Zaman Dunwan underscore K on Twitter as well as on Instagram, where we continue talking all things of property. We're going to give Sharon David's a few more seconds. I'm just waiting for Ulyanda to let me know if Sharon is in fact in the live and in the event where they're not in the live, then we are going to roll over this amount to 1000 rounds next week, Wednesday. So if Sharon is not in the live this evening, then we're going to see a roll over of this spot prize. And I see that we've also got no sign from Sharon. Well, that means that next week, Wednesday, we're going to be giving away 1000 rounds in cash. And remember, if you want to potentially walk away with that cash, make sure you enter the Sherlock Holmes competition, tune into the podcast Wednesday and on Thursday and stay until the end of the show. So if we call out your name, you can drop us a message down here below and claim your prize. Well, that's it from me, Zaman Dunwar, Kumala and the rest of the private property podcast team. It is a Thursday, so I do not leave you alone. Umbali Nwaka will be taking over eight PM with the farming podcast. Until then, hope you stay in home and staying safe.