 So to discuss this is Commissar Kamara, senior visiting expert for the Sahel at the US Institute of Peace and Mali former minister of Foreign Affairs. Commissar, thank you so much for being with us. So why is, I mean, there's several issues at stake here, but let's just start with France and France essentially being kicked out of Bikini Faso. Why has France sort of seemed to sort of, I guess, fall out of favor with a lot of their former colonies? So Zayn, thank you for having me. This didn't happen just in a vacuum. In 2013, France first engaged militarily in Mali to liberate the country from an impending jihadist threat. And since 2013, France has been quite heavily involved in all of the Sahel countries, including Burkina Faso. Despite the initial objective of French, which was to combat terrorism, the jihadist threat actually grew in terms of number of size, but also the jihadist threat could not be contained within the borders of Mali and Burkina Faso is one of the victims, I guess, of the fallouts and the expansion of the jihadist threat from Mali. 10 years later, what we're seeing in the Sahel are young leaders who are in their 30s, in their early 40s, who want to break from the past, who do not feel intimidated by the former colonizer and who want to make their imprint and show their authority. And so the fact that France is being booted out of Burkina Faso didn't happen by accident. Right, it didn't happen overnight. You pointed to several factors, including the fact that the security situation in a lot of the Sahel region hasn't really improved as much as you would have expected it to, given France's presence for such a long time. Burkina Faso is saying, look, we can protect ourselves. You know, we don't need France. We can do it ourselves, can they? Well, Burkina Faso has for many years said that it wanted to take ownership of its own security at the regional level. Multiple initiatives have been created, including the G5 Sahel, which was supposed to be fighting terrorism in the region. But in Burkina Faso, the authorities have said that they have mobilized a certain number of men to defend their communities against the Jihadist threat. Now that the French are exiting, there will have to be some operational rearrangement and it is yet to be seen as to whether they're going to be effective or not. So France has bases in, from what I understand, Djibouti, Gabon, Ivory Coast, Niger, and basically most of their former colonies. Just what does France stand to get? I mean, they've obviously gone out of their way to have a military presence in the Sahel region and a lot of their former colonies. What does France stand to gain from those relationships financially? I have to say that the first French intervention in 2013 in Mali was done at the request of the Malian authorities. France didn't just come to Mali without an invitation. But again, economically, it's really hard to say what France actually gains geopolitically from a strategic point of view. France is actually projecting its power in the Sahel region, its military power, in ways that it's unable to do in other regions of the world. I would say that France gains more in terms of geopolitical and strategic interests than economic gains. So without France now, I mean, Burkina Faso saying they're gonna protect themselves, but can you see a situation, this is what a lot of people fear, that there's gonna be a situation whereby Burkina Faso turns to Russia, turns to the Wagner Group for help instead of their sort of traditional Western allies. What do you make of that? Well, I would say that this is completely, besides the point, I do not believe that the Wagner Group or Russia by extension have the willingness to be involved in such a volatile region for such a long time. And I do not even believe that they have the resources to be involved in the way that the French were. And so it's really, we have to be careful and Burkina Faso is not going to collapse. I think there will be some operational considerations that will be made in Burkina Faso, but also in neighboring countries to maybe collaborate more closely and fight the terrorist threat more effectively. All right, Kamasa Kamara, live for us there. Thank you so much. Good to see you, by the way. It's been a while. Always nice to have you on the show. It's been a while. Thank you. Thank you, Kamasa.