 a very special guest who will add a lot of depth to the segment Awakened. Now what? David, hello. Hi there Olga. So grateful to be here. Yes, I had so much gratitude for your very quick response and conversation with you yesterday. It was really sweet, sweet, sweet and wonderful. And the reason I invited David is because I would like to explore today from standpoint of those on mystical path, or those who derive to the state that many consider to be state of mystical existence. To explore a little bit about the path itself and what many can assume waiting for them at the end of the path, even though the idea of the path, obviously, just perception, right? There is no path as is, is it David? No, there is no path, it's really just an experience, yeah. Yes, yes. Would you like to share a little bit where you are right now? What took you to where you are right now and how do you experience the state in which you're in? Well, it's a little bit like sometimes there's Hollywood movies that come out that I can really relate to, and there's one that came out with Scarlett Johansson recently called Lucy, where Lucy starts to use more and more percentages of her brain and higher and higher and higher working. Basically, it seems to be a drug induced state, but actually regardless of the pathway, the ultimate goal was always to live our full potential, to live the love and the peace and the joy and the happiness that we were created as we are created to be like our source. So I see it really as kind of a journey in how willing am I to trust God or the source or the universe? How willing am I to trust source for everything to make no decisions big or small by myself, but just let the source give it to me moment by moment and I find that it started off as kind of like an experiment and a curiosity and then like yourself, oh God, I had some very big experience that seemed to change my perspective of everything and everyone, and yet that was just the beginning. It wasn't an end point. It wasn't something where I just announced, okay, I've arrived. It was the beginning of an ever-opening journey of how trusting can I be with my intuition, how trusting could to let go of analysis and critical kind of thinking and evaluating and just to trust my intuition. That's really what it came down to for me. Would you like to share about your experience or gradual experiences that led you to, a lot of people refer to that as awakening, what people refer to that as path to enlightenment. Let's just say that the opening, the opening and shift of, that's how I see that it's simply shift of perception because the state, there's nothing changes. The individual is still appear to be the same. It's still the world, it's still the actions, but the center of perception moves from over here, I'm perceived to be myself as Olga or as David, to I'm a unified consciousness. Let's put up these words. And all the interesting things about words always fail because the words are only pointers. They never can describe what it is. It only can describe what it's not, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. What happened to you? How it started happening and what the evolution is as well tricky word to use here, but let's call it evolution of your state and your depth of the experience itself. Yeah, I think if I had to go back to what seemed to be even a starting point, it would be like coming beyond crisis or beyond hurt or grief, the beyond the darkness. And there was an event that occurred back around, I think it was close to 1982 for me when my grandfather was diagnosed with cancer. And I loved him very dearly. And I watched, I would go to the hospital and visit him and he went down very skinny, almost like a walking skeleton. He lost so much weight and so forth. And it shook me up. I think a lot of times, whether it's a terminal illness for oneself or a loved one, it's like shakes you up. It's like, it reminds you of this temporal world and all the questions that come around this temporary world because there's something inside of us that knows where eternal beings and it takes like a shock to start to wake us up like a wake up call. So I watched him go down and pass away and that really triggered me to kind of allow these questions into my consciousness of what's it all for? What's the meaning of life? What am I doing anything for? What's the purpose? And then I had a series of expansive experiences where I felt as connected and one with the world, with the universe. There were synchronicities just showing me that everything was a reflection of my mind and there were signs and symbols everywhere. And I started to devote myself to what I called it like an inner calling. And then after about two and a half years of really deep devotion of study and reading and practice, then my intuition, my intuitive voice was very, very clear. I felt it was like Jesus within me, not Jesus the man or Jesus the historical figure, but just the presence of unconditional love, agape love within me, really my true inner voice. Interrupt me for a second. When you're referring to Jesus, does it come from your background to belong to Christian practice or because you teach Course of Miracle right now and Course of Miracle, there is connection obviously to Christianity. How so that you give it a name Jesus in this context? Yeah, I think it just felt like this presence that I had known very deeply, but it was like a universal presence to me. So I can use a lot of different names interchangeably. And of course, miracles use some psychological and educational and Christian terms. So those were just the words that came to me, Jesus or Holy Spirit, but it's really just like the universal self that we are, the universal spirit, that it's not tied to any particular culture or any particular religion. It's just who we truly are. And it can take many forms. So that's the beautiful thing about it. There's not like one form that's better than another. It's really just what serves, what reaches you and what is most helpful. So I see it's very universal for me. It's not tied into any particular religion or any particular theology. You know, when I was watching your videos, what attracted me to have conversation with you is your willingness to let go completely of the world. What I mean by that is the first one, first experience of awakening comes. And I refer awakening as ability to perceive everything as is directly outside of the veils of perception, of the filters of personality that we adopt, personality as my character, as a person, and that and other. And then there is a choice and experience happened. There is a still choice because the memory of the personality is still there, isn't it? So there's a choice to do I stay on the cliff and hold on to the rock looking in the abyss or do I let it go and allow to lose control because people always say, oh, there is nobody in control. Well, there is and there is not, isn't it? It's everything. The world, as we say, dual world is exactly as is, dual and undo. There is someone in control and there is not simultaneously. There is a universal consciousness, the big mind. And there is individual consciousness that proceeds to be an individual, a person, isn't it? But it's not one or another that proceeds. They exist simultaneously. Different people went through different from my observation. Please share your experience from my observation is a read people sharing the experiences or they share the talks or so on and so forth. People go through iterations, stages of iteration. And that's how it happened to me too. I had very vivid and very long experience of complete unified consciousness where there is absolutely, there was no ego, there was no center of perception, there was no I. The Olga vanished completely. It was very blurry memory that was not any different than probably any other individual. Just a little bit felt like there is just increased volume practically, right? And on the level of seven billion individuals and other life forms, many, many, many. So there's that increased volume, but there was no sense of ego, no one's desires, pains, there was no sense of time, there was no sense of separation of any kind whatsoever. There was very insightful, very profound experience. And then there was a collapse of experience where iteration happened, where memory of that experience remained, yet the center of perception almost like reintegrated itself. It was Olga again. Olga is memory of it. Now Olga sees the world very differently. She never, ever can go back to be Olga that was blissfully arrogant, ignorant, sorry, ignorant. Olga they didn't know. Now Olga knows. And the reason why I started this particular segment, because I believe a lot of people more and more coming through this experience, but then the question, now what? Now I cannot play the game in the same way I played it before because I was immersed in the game. I'm not immersed in this game any longer. I can still play the game because now I reintegrate it as a person and the individual mind, but now I know very clearly, vividly and undisputably that I'm not it, that I perceive myself to be, but I'm not it any longer. So how do you play the game of life? And I mean life is not life capital L, which is there is no how in it, right? There is no how to play. It just happened. Life happens. Then you don't exist in it. But the game of the world in which reintegrated self of individual exists. There is monetary obligation. There is obligations in the family and relationships. There is all which constitute world that the mind created and level of individual entities. How did it happen to you? How did it happen? The willingness or the moment where you actually let go of the world? Because that's what you showed. You let go of the world that was gradually or at once. Please share that. Yeah. For a while it seemed gradual because it seemed like this back and forth that you talk about, but then it came to a point where I could see it wasn't gradual at all. There could be no compromise in it, in the sense that the appearance would still be what the appearance looked like. So it was an allowance for that. But with an ego-less state, there's no sense of need or desire or wanting something. And even those beliefs like we talked about obligations and duties and things, it seemed to be so much a part of the human condition. In that experience and in the trust of that, then that was released as well in the sense that the spirit can use the symbols of the world without a sense of need or duty or obligation, as the stress can come in. If we feel personally obligated, then we're identified with the personality self. And that personality self is part of the illusion. So for me, it was very important to be fully in this experience and fully trusting and then let the symbols be whatever the symbols would be without any sense of control. And I like that you brought up control there at the beginning because there's a sense of no control over the world. You're not trying to control people and you're not even trying to control the body or control situations, but you're really in control in the ultimate sense of when you are in total responsibility for your state of mind. In other words, you have total control over your peace of mind. You have total control over happiness, of joy. It's the state of mind that you're in control of in a good way because it's the spirit flowing through you and the spirit has dominion over the world. Like Jesus said, be of good cheer, I have overcome the world. He wasn't meaning dominating it through force or personal control because he certainly didn't demonstrate that at all. But he had control over the elements and he seemed to be able to perform miracles. And he was not at the mercy of the laws of physics, even the laws of the world. He had transcended all of those. So for me, I went so deeply into this experience that three different occasions, the world just disappeared. And it was just all love and light and oneness and I knew everything and there was nothing else and so forth. And then what would seem to be back to preceding a world, it was to not hold on to any self-concepts. For example, even with relationships and partnerships, there's some concepts involved, one person and another person relating or family self-concepts. Or you could have concepts around a career or just even a job, let's say not even a career, but just a job or a task. If you become identified with that task or with that job and you think that's who you are, then that's just another self-concept. And the point is to not freeze in any concepts to be totally free, like a free spirit allowed to use the concepts and use the symbols and the images, but without identifying with them. So to me, that's the key. That's what it's all about. So tell me, do you find that there is ego in you or is it dissolved? What degree of absence of this iteration happens in your world right now? Well, I find my state of mind is very, very consistent. And so if we talked about ego, involvement or even percentage, there would be strain or stress or discomfort or even fatigue. Those kind of things are all associated with the sense of ego. So I find it's a very vibrant experience for me. It's a very consistent experience. And some of the people that have come to move to live near me or around me, the reason that they came in the first place is they heard some line about, oh, David hasn't had a bad day for 20 years or 20 some years. And they just were curious. They said, well, I'd like to see that. Let's test him. I want to go live with him. I don't want to just see a talk or presentation. I want to spend time in the presence of that. And I want to, if it's really true, if there's a lightheartedness and a non-judgment and a loving acceptance and a joy, then let me see it. Let me experience that. So that's really what people have come, not so much to learn from me, but to just be in the experience of happiness, you know, what we all want to experience happiness. And we don't want struggle. We just don't want struggle. We know it's not natural. Right. And let me ask you this. Since we are talking about struggle and joy and so on and so forth, from my experience, the memory of it now, when Olga disappeared, Persever disappeared completely to the degree that it was nobody was discriminating the state or experience. So it was completely irrelevant whether there is a joy or pain because neither of it would find place in the space I was in, because there was no I who would be experiencing any of it. And that's what I find a little bit challenging when people share that the enlightenment is a bliss and it's joy and it's love because it doesn't seem possible when there is no ego, then who is experiencing joy? Who is wanting happiness? Who is dealing with any discrimination of struggle or suffering or pain? There is no I to perceive the world with discrimination. Isn't it true? Yeah, I would say there's no I that has anything to do with duality. So if we talked about pleasure and pain or anything that has an opposite, that's still part of the ego because the ego is is a world of opposites. It's a it's a belief in opposites. So when I talk about joy, I'm not talking about like joy the way humans think of it like joyful at the birth of a new baby or joyful because they got the job that they always wanted that they worked at for years or joyful again about getting married or some people tell me they they're joyful when they finally get divorced they wish they'd done it earlier you know they say but see that's like a joy based on an outcome based on on a discrimination a perception of something in the world and that's not what I'm talking about I'm talking about something like you said it's so transcendent that there is no individual I but there's presence and you might say that I sometimes call it I am presence it's still it's the I amness but it's not a personality there's no person that can claim it because it's it can't be claimed by by the ego and in egos you know personality the latin word for persona is mask and you know that's what the human conditions we were talking about seven billion mask is really what it is and this experience is beyond the mask completely beyond the mask absolutely absolutely and it seems possibility to to have both dual experience simultaneously because non-duality is a combination of opposites really it's not either or people assume or if if there is a state non-dual state then there is only that no the whole point how mind designed somehow in the mystical way designed the world and the world appears as it is because there are opposites in order for experiencer to experience joy they must be paying to compare it with isn't it not actually I mean I I find that what pure non dualism is is just this we call it unified consciousness or unified awareness and it literally it doesn't even relate to the opposites at all it's in other words it doesn't see opposites from from memory it doesn't see opposites as opposites it just everything as is it doesn't discriminate is as good is it bad is it useful is it not useful is it is it meaningful pointless is it painful or joyful it doesn't discriminate but when it happened and for majority of people when awakening was experienced as a state in sites where downloaded let's put it that way but then there is iteration here I am in a state of unified consciousness for a moment and the next moment I'm fully immersed in the human experience and the only thing that changed since awakened experience happened is the witness the observer that before did not exist before there was complete immersion in the world and the world felt so tangible and real and that's what it is and I is I I am Olga I'm Olga and I have to put makeup when I go on camera right for example right now Olga plays with that Olga knows that it's all does matter but it's equally matters because the game is the game so might as well put makeup and some people I know some people it's I'm so funny some people say oh uh why someone would think about the look in the uh awaken we could sleep on the floor and we can sleep in a beautiful bed we can it's a game isn't it yeah I think the thing about it is is when we go back and forth then where you might say the process of forgiveness because what we want is is stability we want unification and and the I would say the happy game of forgiveness I call it is when we don't judge not because we shouldn't judge but in this state of joy and peace of bliss you know there's nothing to judge we we can't even conceive of a judgment so in that sense you know I feel like this is where I talk a lot about guidance and intuition if your guidance is to dress up or wear earrings or makeup you know that's your guidance and that's the key to coming into being as consistent the state of happiness I think is following your guidance it's not trying to analyze things or break things apart you know when people talk to me about um food and which foods are helpful and which foods are harmful I'd say it's thoughts it's it's consciousness you know if you're in the flow and you're flowing with that you you are not concerned about what you put in your mouth it's just all part of that flow it's the same with dressing up I mean probably like you I have a closet over here and and a wardrobe and I splash out and go all around the world to all these 38 countries and I'll just put stuff on and take stuff that just is in the flow I don't try to wear certain clothes or have a certain structure or a certain plan it's all spontaneous for me in fact when I was in Australia one time a friend of mine was traveling with me on all these gatherings I was doing and she would notice that every gathering that we would do I matched with the background and so she would in the morning she would wait for me to get dressed first because she wanted to match too so she would just watch and wait until I got dressed and then she would go get dressed and then she was matching too now I wasn't trying to do that consciously I mean I didn't even know the places or whatever but this is like the divine joy the divine play where we can be happy and joyful but we don't need to try to make a structure out of it or tell people they need to you know act a certain way or be a certain way or dress a certain way and here's an interesting you touched upon it it's an interesting for me at least conversational together about control control over life when personality is active the iteration happened towards individual mind right yes this is I find it very interesting paradox there is no control yet there is control there is no free will per se and there is free will it's it's depending where you iterate in the state so when when unified consciousness is perceiving the world from no center now there is free will because there is no separate should I say separate entities to impose the willpower on me on you on object there is no subject an object it's it's all non-objective so so then there is no free will it's just this flow and the time does not exist it's a it's a lapse it's there's the everything is linear else in simultaneous yet when the mind imagine itself for a moment to become a branch for a moment for a season for whatever it is become a branch of its own an individual being individual mind that has a structure of the ego then there is free will and there is control and there is shoots and woods because then individual mind plays the game of the world that it created around itself is it is it does it does it happen in your experience is this is equity observed it seems that way in the sense that for me I wanted to just let go of the world and what I meant by that was what of the thinking of the world I didn't want any sense of limits or constraint I wanted to feel that freedom but it wasn't like a personal freedom so it was like there came a choice point do do I want freedom of the body or freedom of the mind and and one was a pursuit and the other was was something that was offered there and I wanted the kind of freedom that was not circumstance dependent dependent on circumstances or situations you know I was inspired by Gandhi you know he stood for a principle they put him in jail he enjoyed cooking and writing and being with the prisoners and loving and he had peace but but he was in a jail cell seemingly informed the body of Gandhi was in a jail cell and that inspired me I thought now that's the kind of freedom I want I don't want the kind of freedom that that it depended on money depended on mobility depended on transportation dependent on money anyways yeah right because it's just a trick you know we we think you know you have more more choices and more freedom but if we can buy more things but you know or have control over things with money but that's just another illusion and trick so so we discover that there is a true free will and I think the true free will is spirit or God or love is for us to be happy that's when we're in our free will and when we forget that for a moment then it can seem the be that there's a human game that's that's there for an option but increasingly that that becomes less attractive you know it's it's like if you can just enjoy everything in a state of acceptance in a state of total acceptance then you see there's no point in playing little and no point in playing small tiny anymore and then it just falls away it's not something you fight against or you have to conquer or anything it just it just ceases to be in your awareness you know you touched upon that the god let's let's give it a name the god unified consciousness wants us to be happy you know I find that quite interesting too to to reflect on because it seems like if there is non-discriminatory experience it's not that pursuit of happiness matters it's experience matters yes because if we if we're looking for happiness then we're right there discriminating everything that god is giving to us it's giving to us all of it to experience the god is experiencing itself herself himself through individualized consciousness that that manifests itself in the body mind but it doesn't want experience just that I kind of say it doesn't want because it doesn't want it's not desires of the same kind but it's words it it's wants experience it's it wants to get to know itself practically it's want to get get expansion of experience through individualized consciousness and kind of back in and and humans is is it individual consciousness we are looking for happiness because that's we discriminate and it's perceived to be obviously better be happy than unhappy but even that is taking us away from what we are actually looking for its ultimate freedom because in the freedom there is no discrimination of experience on to be happy or not it's just to experience everything as is without labeling it in any way isn't it so yeah I think we we can reach this transcendent state of consciousness and mind and then it so goes beyond anything that we seem to know as a human being and then when that vastness if it if it goes away for even for a time then if there's any kind of attachment or any kind of clinging or holding then that's where the the limit comes in and it's not God hasn't gone away love hasn't gone away nothing has gone it's just the mind is not aware of its vastness when it tries to cling and hold on to something when it tries to be ignorant or be small play play tiny so to me the the whole experience is to is to be as open-hearted as one can possibly be and it just radiates and extends that's what God is ever extending love ever extending joy and happiness and what we have in terms of the people that I live with we and the guidelines I've used is no people pleasing no private thoughts just meaning it's okay share whatever you're feeling share whatever's on your heart you don't have to hide and protect anything because that's the only way that we limit awareness is by hiding and protecting playing like a hide and seek a game of deception exactly and that's what I notice this this iteration what causes this iteration is when you're in expansive state of consciousness when you are united with God it's not united because you're not separated but you're aware of that you are all of it and what kicks you back into human experience is the fear there's somewhere in the field the fear becomes stronger let's say on vibration level of you name it I don't even know how to describe it and I wouldn't even ever try it but it feels like the fear somehow arises and pulls you back towards individualized consciousness when you fully embodied you feel limitation of your body and limitation of the body mind and therefore your experience now is subjected to rules of the world in which there is a war and there is sickness and there is money that we invented because we invited them in the first place and and and we become subject of subject to suffering yeah start suffering because the fear itself moved us towards the structures that reinforce suffering right yeah so we'll say as a human being you know it seems like you're not aware of of fear some a lot of it can be unconscious fear most people don't go through their whole day just completely aware of fear all the time they have other emotions even some pleasant and very wonderful experiences but if it's unconscious we'll say that means it's just pushed out of awareness it's it's unwatched or it's hidden then what joy we have what a life we have in being transparent and being open in not hiding anything that's to me is the excitement of relationship that's the excitement of of community let's be transparent we have nothing to hide uh hiding is only going to keep it push it down out of awareness and and keep the fear but perhaps if we keep exposing and we just have a great allowance and to be very transparent we'll finally discover that there really is nothing to fear at all that that that was just make believe it was just a fiction that's right and you know this community is interesting too because when when you are aware that you are all of it then you don't need another to interact with yes yes equally you equally don't need to separate yourself from another yes that's a beautiful way of saying it that's so beautiful because i think you just we just draw forth witnesses but but we we are not obligated to those witnesses so much of human relationships there's so much obligation and and then there's guilt to try to please people to try to live up to expectations can we be truly free and be truly honest and say well here's what i'm feeling now or let it come up and this way of living i find has integrity it has honesty and you still can be guided to make commitments ultimately to be who we are to be the one i think is is our ultimate commitment commitments commitments are not decisions when you are fully expanded when you you are living some prefer to in the heart or you are in the state of unifying consciousness versus individualized consciousness the commitment is not even strategy or decision because it's a right thing to do it become a logical impulse of the universe because commitment is integrity and universe has this interesting way of organization where it's all based on some sort of universal integrity so whatever commitments are it just an impulse yes of of of existing in integrity isn't it so it is i think it's a natural impulse it's the it's the natural impulse of of spirit and it's it's always available to us and so there's no need for us to compromise and to play some games or to try to avoid that it's wonderful that's that's our free will that's our happiness too is is living in that integrity so i i think that's that that means that we really have a purpose for everything in this world we can't say that we don't have a purpose we do in a way but but how it seems to me it's you know people people often say oh discover your meaning of life discover the purpose well life itself is the meaning life itself experiencing life is the purpose and the meaning and there's not real on any of any magnitude are the meaning to individual life but people try to create it because it's scary to be in unimportant it's very scary to be nobody but that's where the freedom is in being complete nobody you can play somebody you can play to be somebody i play the ball with the ball all the time i'm writing blogs and and i have videos and i call myself executive coach because it's something in in that world right but what for fall the way is the identification with any of it that this is so serious and that's the way it's actually is not it's not it actually is it's how we projected the form to play right now because the form takes what how does it the world take forms the world of imagined which we created and which we live in it take forms it's not formless unified consciousness is feels formless because it's so simultaneous and vast that it feels formless because it's such an eagle view that that's how at least i remember to share from the memory of it or when i get into the state but other than that anyways nothing to say that yeah but i see that though you're you're a communicator and you you have much to share and much to extend and it's beautiful that you just allow whatever form to be used to be used you by your extending that that clarity that integrity that love that's how you keep it you know love is meant to be extended it's not extending itself by default because this is the property of love isn't it yes it is it's a property right it's not something that you can turn on or turn off or do a little bit here it's not a matter of degree and so i think you might say that a lot of us have been called to be like light workers because we have so much love and light to share we find each other we draw each other as witnesses not out of a sense of need not out of a sense of want to rejoice to to see and recognize like oh i recognize you i recognize recognition i love it it's a recognition that that's what it is i when i looked at you guys and the videos that that you you created you know the talks that you do and the community that you creating i would assume it's keep creating itself right i thought it's wonderful because when people come with the whole idea to leave the life of mystics even though we know that we are not always mystics because the individualized consciousness kicks in on its own accord and i bet you guys have there a lot of input the intention the impulse is to leave life of mystics life of truth life of authenticity is tricky word here but let's let's call it authenticity so the truth and what i loved one of your talks you were sharing somewhere you were saying uh i don't believe that ceo can be enlightened and and so i was laughing you know what the reason why i laughing because i just remember at one of the fundraisers i just had the same conversation with someone someone who said all conscious ceo's and enlightened we need to build the world of commerce with ceo's enlightened and you're listening and say it's just an impossibility of it that's what what obvious impossibility the world of commerce operates in so many different structures and it's fully based on you identifying with your role in the world with the world the world of four there's no it's impossible to run organization of thousands of people that the whose sole purpose of it is profit and profit connected with all the human emotion greed and fears and and separation and and now we start talking about personal brands and we keep creating us away from unified consciousness we keep we keep like painters we keep painting ourselves away unified conscious yeah and it's silly because when we see that we laugh we laugh at the question you know when they say can i can i keep painting and be a unified consciousness we say no that's painting away from it just come back and and let the unified awareness express and if it involves painting then you're not going to be trying to sell it or make a commodity out of it there's not going to be a possession of it because the vast awareness doesn't possess anything yet true so true how first experience happened to david your first experience of awakening what that result of the practice and was it course of miracle that you had at that point is your discipline or course of miracle that you teaching so much right now came as a your id your desire to explain your experience it actually came the course came as a as a helpful tool for me to give give myself over completely and then there was one point where i was with a woman and we'd we'd gone off into the woods and we decided to take some chairs and a table and just sit out in the woods and do like an open-eyed meditation just gazing at one another and then the figure ground the the depth perception the three-dimensionality just collapsed and then all this bright light started coming right around where her head was and and the trees in the background and then the whole world disappeared through tantric through tantric practice it was so much i was so relaxed and so still and my eyes were open i wasn't trying to follow a technique i just got so still and so relaxed and and the recognition was so strong that the light just burst through the form and then there was only light and then another time i went out with her we were out in a a rowboat in the water and the breeze was blowing us along we weren't even using the oars we were sitting facing each other again the same way and in just the very stillness and then same thing happened and then it happened like third time when we were in a kitchen and just sitting across the kitchen table but so the world and the whole world disappears and it's just all love and light then you you know exactly what what's real so she was a catalyst for you in a way right she was very helpful she was we were both there relaxing into it together and and i think that was very much a part of it you know because because we were just relaxing into the same experience we weren't there was no they were in love some quit call it that we it's so in love that the world disappeared exactly that's the way it went yeah it's interesting and and prior to that did you practice anything okay so here's a question where you seek in enlightenment or it just spontaneously happened i think it was for me just peace of mind and and feeling really warmed up in my heart and feeling really connected i don't think at the beginning i i called it enlightenment or i i didn't really want to think of it as a pursuit to pursue something like you pursue humans pursue many things i didn't want that i just i wanted to relax into an experience and then i wanted that experience to be stable and consistent not to explain the course of miracle came to your life yeah it was 1986 i went out to california where you are now except i was in southern california la joya down more towards san diego and i went to a humanistic psychology conference and there were people like uh car rogers uh who was speaking this is last time that he spoke on earth um at that conference in virginia satire transpersonal psychologists humanistic psychologists and then i i went and i met these two people who had this book of course in miracles and their teacher was on a videotape tara sing and it was i felt such a draw and a connection so i kept cancelling workshops and things i was supposed to go to you know how it is life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans i said i'll cancel okay today i cancel some more i just went with it and that's how i got introduced to it and then when i i had i was in a relationship but at the time with a christian woman but when i started to give myself over to this experience i saw that it was beyond christianity it was beyond theology and even the course says you know that that a universal uh theology is impossible but a universal experience is inevitable and i i said yes i i feel that so it was just a tool that i used but that's how it came into my life it kind of dropped into my life but after you had the experience of of expanded consciousness right i had some glimmers of expanded consciousness and then the course came it was almost like oh i've got no excuses i just have to give myself over to what seemed to be a practice but then deep enough where the the practice disappeared like people ask me what does your spiritual practice look like and i laugh i say i don't i don't have one beingness you know is has taken over your life is a practice and it's interesting it sounds like one does not need practice but but it's through and not through at the same time because you you you need practice to you get it yes exactly when you get it now you don't need that exactly that's exactly it so that's why i don't try to tell people you know that it has to be a certain way or look a certain way because i think all this fine practice and discipline is very very helpful and necessary until it's not and then then it's like okay exactly and then the very funny sometime argument around the practice my religion versus your religion my type of yoga versus your type of yoga and now let's protect yoga and let's let's let's patent it and call it transcendental meditation let's i mean all this interesting wars of of of teaching wars of knowledge which is it's not about the practice itself it's not one better than another it's what takes you there and sometimes nothing sometimes even nothing when i looked at what happened to me it was the most ridiculous thing ever i was pretty happy child and i went through my different experiences and i had a very traumatic experiences i was almost killed raped robbed betrayed i mean like a human being i experienced everything i could in pretty short period of time and then there was time when you start to have sense this world is just too small the world of the mind the world treated by the mind to which we subject ourselves there is that's not why i belong and it's not that i was depressed i was not depressed but there was the sense of there is something else i i needed to know something else i needed to see and it became such a strong longing it was unbearable longing to know something that i don't know see something that i don't see and it was became so unbearable that i remember one day i stay in the shower on the water and i start to bang the wall say fuck sorry if you less than 16 don't watch it fuck don't kill me i cannot stand it any longer god no god i don't get to show me or kill me and i was living without the wall and i was just yelling like that like crazy person next day i went to you know sometimes you entertain yourself i went to um we call it ecstatic dance and there's the music you know people's drums playing drums and i came there early and i sit down in the corner and musicians just they were just fixing the stuff and just preparing to the show and i sit and i just close my eyes for a moment and that was it and that was it i disappeared my body disappeared my mind and perception and ego disappeared and everything revealed itself in the glimpse of time as this beautiful dance created by the mind there was no time there was nobody in there and everything suddenly became clear there was no questions there was no more questions and the answers not need to be found because the questions transcended it was no more question nothing to see nothing to find nothing to find and it lasted to me about 22 hours or something it was the most bizarre experience at that point it felt bizarre because you cannot comprehend by the mind unless you taste the orange you cannot explain the orange there are a lot of people talk about spirituality and they use all this concept and they try to explain it and it's pointless yes the word only can point to it they never can translate it into it right and and the experience was magnificent at the same time very disappointing for the ego for the human Olga it was disappointing because the longing was so tremendous it was almost just i don't want to leave it's not that i was suicidal it just unless i know i don't want to leave and then when it's revealed itself it's magnificent yet it's so simple somehow it felt but it's just too simple hey my mind is my better now integral give me something to comprehend but there is nothing to comprehend any longer it fell away questions just everything fell away and i was really disappointed for months i was pouting you know this is a you're describing it so beautifully that you in the shower wanting it with all your heart and soul and mind and might and then having the experience and then then the ego it will pout it will say what way whoa wait a minute that i because the ego is afraid of love and that's why we have to let go of the ego because we are love we can't be afraid of ourselves we can't be afraid of spirit and god we're we're created by spirit you know as spirit so it's so delightful to hear that because it's it's very comical actually but the questions all leave and and and and you don't even you can't even describe it like you said it's the worst just point to it and i think that's the greatest thing that i've had in my life is i don't feel the need to have to explain it or describe i can just go along and be so so so content until i get an email from a woman named Olga and and i i immediately connect with you and it's just was the spirit does it through us it's so easy it's so natural it's like you said it's not really this is an interview this is we are the presence of love and this is just the form that it's expressing in but it comes so easy and natural there's not a sense of you don't try to go seek something or make something happened at all it's so easy yes it is tell me did you experience i really want to you to share but your life a little bit more because i i was listening your your videos and a lot of people who is in this conversation they might not done it so far but i invite you to do it um you share that at first you as you will let him go of the world you i assume pursued homeless life you didn't know when next meal comes where next uh a roof comes when you will sleep what you will eat what will happen you didn't know in five years or something like that it's a cartilage shares the same way that he just sit on the bench and that just it till things started to happen you know people invite you to speak because they hear you and somehow they they cover the cost of you living and that and another as long as you trust of course there's so many questions for people who who listen like i don't want to be homeless i don't want to let go i have this house million dollar in platforming here really there's million dollar house and i have a wife and kids and they're going to harvard or stanford and i mean you have i have my life organized and i have strategies for next 10 years and if you ask me my goal in five years i will tell you because it's elevator pitch and so on so forth so it requires great bravery for the ego to let go of what it's holding on to and it's very interesting because its ego makes the decision to let go despite its purpose purpose to get you embodied almost that's how i see that which is that's why i find very interesting to me did not happen david and that's why we might have this conversation because i have this huge when i'm not unified consciousness when i'm all gone and and believe myself to be despite knowing that i'm not it's i i cannot get to the point where i can fully let go and trust and so i'm grateful that i have opportunity to talk to you because in you that trust happened and i still when i'm all gone i'm conflicted about the fact that i am living in this world created by the mind and my mind is pretty pretty strong mind and it's creating structures and this then it holds on to structure so it requires this iterations all the time which sometimes can be exhausting because you really need to kick yourself out of of individualized consciousness into unified to relax and rest because the life the struggle in the world because it's always kind of struggle you it's always the the act of will it's always the act of effort it's always the moment of control so so this game is extremely tiring it's very tiring draining so much energy right so how did it happen to you that there was this moment of complete let go and complete trust do you remember anything about it to share hi i felt inspired before the moment of really complete trust i was moved in the direction of that like it was almost like the spirit was saying come closer i'll give you more experiences and hear some more and some more and more so you start to gain a confidence in the trust not a blind trust but i need experience and oh here's another one and then another one for example i was told i was i was impelled to start traveling and i was david was not a traveler even going as a child with with my parents on long vacations i didn't like to be in a car for eight ten twelve hours uh and just sitting in a car i didn't really enjoy travel as a child but something in this moment of big trust came it was a purpose for the travel i wasn't just going around the body moving around it was something much greater than that and that was all about the trust like the spirit was like saying i will take care of you i will show you i will give you everything that you need sometimes we we use the word divine providence uh life takes care but sometimes we think of mother chorizo or st francis or somebody like that as if spirit takes care of that person oh spirit took care of st francis and spirit takes care of mother chorizo and we think spirit doesn't take care of other people like they have to go have jobs and careers and earn lots of money and do it all themselves no but st francis you know we say oh yeah he could sit with the birds and be out with the flowers and not have a career because he was st francis you know what i find is divine providence is for all of us it's like when we believe that we have to earn our life earn it then we have a belief and that's what the ego is we have to earn everything i'm not saying that that hard work is is bad i'm saying that when you relax and you get inspired then what comes through you is your life's work but it's just given to you moment by moment you don't have to figure it out or you don't have to have a resume for it or you know package it in some way and try to sell it to somebody so that's what those five years were about for me they were i was impelled to travel and then i thought how how will i travel and i had enough money to go get a small car and then when i traveled people would take me in or offer me food or say would you want some yes money very different from my life i wasn't living like that ever before but i was willing and then i still had pride willingness came from this is what i would i would i really really really want olga olga wants to understand what you need fight consciousness she doesn't care there is doors and flowers and life is pretty and and she can just leave outdoor and everything is fantastic but the duration happened and then olga comes to play wait a minute i got all my education and by the next year i supposed to make seven million so no i'm not going to let go because i'm still in the way to get all those toys until you buy the buy karma i wanted that karma car electric uh so you know all this the stuff the stuff right and then and then you know you sit here and i just it's just so amazing that all you can do is laugh because there is somewhere in the middle there is opportunity to actually let go of everything but there is this play between oh i don't need anything and everything is perfect and wonderful and here but there is an olga there's olga and olga is married and then she needs to take care of her marriage and he needs to take care of of her clients she needs to take care of her parents and all that you know what everybody have their own notions what their responsibilities are and desires are and fears are right but do you remember the moment where you just just felt i'm willing i'm willing to let go of the world was it like something like i just had enough of it enough the game it just enough it's not entertaining enough or what was that moment we're just yeah that to me that moment it was a huge moment of trust like i thought nothing that i've tried as a person has worked uh and and i tried many things and so i just said why not just let go and really go for it i mean fully just pour myself into it it's like the spirit was like saying to me very good that's just what i want i want you to trust me completely and i'll show you oh you won't be sorry at all you will enough so then you go right yes yes and so you know everything and then you have no choice yeah that's it i mean i i had to say i don't know but i trust you i don't know but show me i i don't all my education every experience i've had in the world hasn't got me free i haven't experienced my free will from all of that so i'm willing to try this and then show me convince me and everything and then the spirit did i was so it just ecstatic i was so convinced with it that that there wasn't a sense of of a david to be concerned about uh it it's like there couldn't be a famous david or an infamous david there couldn't be a good david or a bad david i could just sit with somebody who was yelling at me just as easy as somebody who is smiling at me and and not be affected because it's because i don't believe there's a david to be offended you know i'm not identified with the david character and then from this wonderful wonderful experience i would do anything to give it i can only give it there's there's no other option but to give it and therefore when when those have come to join with me they say i want to join with you we have an awareness that this is for the whole universe this isn't a me and you experience we're not trying to gain something or become known or famous or figure something out or anything like that it's just simple very very very simple experience so for those that have come and say i want to join you and they and i can feel that the spirit you know knows it then it's just we we are going to live an experience of this joy and love and happiness and we're not going to give any belief to anything else and that shows us that it's it's all our mind our experience you know it's not we're not at the mercy of the world not at all yeah and and how did david deal with first years of this journey uh when he let go of control let go of his ideas about his part of the world in the world and wandered around how did he deal with adversity because probably not every day you had place to leave or comfortable place to leave and not every day uh you had any sort of security and maybe you were robbed and maybe you were beaten up by strangers i really don't know what was happening so i want i want to hear about it because maybe you were sleeping outside and they were raining in the wet and dirty and cold i mean i don't know that david is a body how did he deal with the transition well it actually was i have to say it was quite easy in the sense that i think i told you that i spent like two and a half years with the course immersing with it like very deeply and intimately and then then jesus was speaking to me and when jesus tells you where to go when to turn turn off call so and so do this do that it was i talked about like having a little bird a little jesus bird on my shoulder that was talk talk talk to me not just i love you and all those kind of things that you think maybe jesus would say turn here do this do this very specific so it would be almost like um you might have seen the movie like star wars uh there was a star wars episode with luke uh luke skywalker had to go into the big death star and he had to go not just into the death star but he had to go into the middle of it and take out the power knock out the power and as he got closer to the core he was flying his spaceship his ship there and then obi one kanobi comes into his mind use the force like close your eyes no don't don't try to do it yourself luke use the force use the force so when i before i started traveling i had a connection with my source with intuition with jesus and i was a very willing follower so i wouldn't wake up in the day wondering what i was going to do i i knew i would be listening and following and jesus would say go to this course group and there would be objections sometimes from the ego like one time i was driving along in oklahoma and i had a a a list of all these course of miracles groups and it was like a sunday morning and i looked at my list and i'm driving and jesus was saying go go to this group and i looked at it and it was close by but i said wait a minute the group's almost over i said oh no the group is there's only 10 minutes left in the group and he said go to the group i said with only 10 minutes left i want me to walk into a course of miracles group with 10 minutes left he said yes okay i mean i will follow i i don't i don't know my own best interest i will just follow so i go to the group they're having a big discussion on sexuality big big heated discussion on sexuality they they're so heated they don't even see me i'm just walk in and just sitting there and then they look and they go oh when did when did you come and i said oh just just a little while ago they said we don't usually talk about sex every week uh where they were a little embarrassed and so on and so forth and then one of them said i'll come out to lunch with us and then i'll come to my condominium and then oh i have to go do some things why don't you play tennis use the jacuzzi i never met the people but the kind of trust it was like the miracles were being led by the intuition where to go what to do who to meet and amazing miraculous experiences would open up so it wasn't so much david hoping that i could find a way facing all these adverse there were still times when when i would seem adverse to the ego like something somebody wanted to throw my body down or you know even some extremes but i got so into the guidance and so into the flow and my confidence grew so strong by listening following listening following listening following that i started to feel like i was invulnerable like like i was fearless like really fearless like nothing could harm me and that was the most magnificent feeling because then i would relax be very i felt like i was so cared for and there's even a part in the course of miracles that says talks about the spirit he will go before you making straight your path and leaving in your way no stones to trip on no obstacles to bar your way nothing you need will be denied you not one seeming difficulty but will melt away before you reach it difficulty melt away before you reach it and i was just like okay yes yes i'm going for this because i know with a lot of non-dual teachings we will share about this experience but the words you know they never they never capture it but what i found is when we join together in experiencing the guidance and the miracles we we help each other when we have a burning passion for it we actually help each other we go faster together when we want the same thing and that's where i think with human beings it's such it's so frustrating because with a lot of their relationships they feel very obligated they feel the people say give me give me yeah i need everyone world is very increasingly transactional world gets into thinking that life is transactional and even you know i don't know david how you see it but i find every relationship a transactional every single relationship a transactional you cannot say that there are altruistic relationship it's always give and take always give and take some things are obvious and some are very subtle some some people would argue no no no i don't need anything i am giving just but no as a human as long as you are identified with yourself as i you always given to get something either a recognition or just gratitude from someone or your emotion or i just gave or whatever whatever it is it's always transactional and it's as as a human it's experience experiences it it's frustrating yes yes the thing that the heart is always subject to closing closing closing even though you want to give and then and closing because it interactions come to get transactional yeah and and once you see that then and we know there has to be another way there has to be more than that for me my whole life has been an experiment in that in other words i started traveling around and going and being taken in and invited for talks and everything and it was just me showing up and i never knew what would happen or what i would say but i did have an expectation of like being taken care of if somebody said stay i could stay or if they said go i could go and what i wanted to discover was how can i learn to be truly generous i mean not transactional but truly generous so when i had this experience of trust that's when i would just travel and i would accept things but i wouldn't ask for them i would just accept them if they were given um jesus told me eat whatever served whatever served i said what what are you saying and you know because i know i've done vegetarianism i've done different disciplines of eating but whatever is served and just excited with love just see it's a gift don't judge it and don't push it away just accept eat whatever serve sleep wherever you're offered a place to sleep don't be trying to tell the world and tell people what you want just accept accept so i had to get into the rhythm of of that and then i found when i finally started doing some things like you're doing these google hangouts and blogs and different things i started to feel so wonderful about sharing and extending so i'd make websites and put stuff up and and i really enjoyed giving lots and lots and lots of free materials away trusting that if i was to continue in that way then donations would come to make websites or the servers or whatever you need email and this and this expectation isn't it there's still expectation though well it's not the thing was i was had so much love to give that i i didn't really care whether it would continue in a certain form or not i was just having so much fun i was like flinging my seeds all over the place and people like that they like the the generosity of that because what we are joining in is we're we're joining in there has to be more than this transactional world we know it in our heart we just know it so everyone that i meet i really feel is my opportunity to to go into that in other words if we had never met and we were on an island we came together this would be the most important thing just to experience this because it's our truth it's our reality and then you get into day to day thing a day to day practice with it so i i find i love being a giver but not a giver with expectations to me that that's just transaction you know give and get give and get give and get you know i'll do this for you if you do this for me i'll scratch your back i'm not even interested in that even collaborations i do i will come together and when some somebody says let's just do it we agree to do it we don't have contracts we don't write out all kinds of if this and this and this and this not interested i trust you know i feel the connection i go for it that's enough for me so it's it's exciting that we have this opportunity to to practice giving you know truly giving from our hearts i find the journey that you describe this is beautiful fascinating and as a human is Olga i'm almost a bit jealous that you was able to to let go of that rock on the cliff and you know the rock hanging or the brine should hang you know yes yes yes yes because we assume that something is holding on holding us but we are holding on there is nothing holding us holding on for me for example it's just a matter of decision and for and i know that my mind is very tricky it's Olga when you become 60 or 70 then you can venture on the journey because then you're not going to be young semi pretty blonde girl that every man try to get in your pants in so if you journey in a lawn expecting food and and the roof come whenever it comes you have to be ready for adversity because there will be a lot of abuse and pain yeah that's the conditioning that's that's what the storyline maybe showed like you said you go through the human experience and you have these memories and then that's where time comes in then you think aha that's what could happen in the future so i better take care of myself i need a career i need to do this i mean even with clients i wanted to be able to shine and write emails and this and this but without having clients because you know what if i was having a very deep experience and i didn't want to answer emails so i would ask jesus and he would say don't don't do anything out of fear don't do anything out of obligation don't do anything out of duty i have to i must i should live from live from inspiration let inspiration be your motive and i thought is this possible i can on this planet can you actually do that and he said yes he he said he'd done it himself it's like no this has already been done you're not doing something new you're just showing you're just experiencing what he knew was already true so i had a lot of discussions with jesus i'd say listen jesus money doesn't grow on trees i can't just go out to my backyard and start picking a hundred dollar bills just to see what he would say to me and he said yeah i know you believe that you believe that and he said but i'll show you just trust me i'll show you trust and show trust and show so now i like to give it away that's why i put up my youtube's or whatever and i'll talk with my groups and they'll say well what do you think should we monetize the youtube's you know with uh with ads and get some money off of everyone and they'll all sit around for a week up no we don't want you to do that what about your speakers you know where you do your audios and should we monetize it no they i've drawn forth witnesses all around me where they wouldn't want that they their reflections of trust too their reflections of no let's not turn this into a career uh let's just keep it simple and pure and giving and giving and giving and trust and trust and trust and besides who would you want to spend your life with except those beings that are reflections of your own trust that trust that even if you're having a bad day or somebody's going through some stuff that you're held that people come to you and say oh can i help you and and they just instead of trying to explain yourself for figure it out or whatever you're just held you know that's what we all wanted that's what i wanted when i was growing up i i had a dog that was pretty pretty good at loving me unconditionally but that's all i wanted was relationships where i was loved and accepted and now i want to give it you know now i see the value of it so i want to give it away with everyone that i meet how do you find people in community when they join in do you find the bring the old consciousness the the individual consciousness or they they step into life of mystics easy well some leave that together so so why you try to step out out of the monetary world that is so limiting and and and contractual and transactional into this way of being with full trust and willingness to meet adversity if that's what is they what they have to offer really right yeah well i'd say in the early days of community yeah the people that came in they were they were willing but they had a lot of undoing to go through they found it they found it difficult there was part of their mind that thought i want to live a life of devotion and happiness and then when the ego reared up they went oh this this dark this is very very dark and and some said no i can't do it some hung in there for a while and then said no i i can't i have to go back to the world i i can't i can't handle this uh more recently we have like indigo children uh and crystal children they're showing up you know 18 19 22 26 30 they don't come with a lot of baggage they some level of conditioning is different yes they don't fit into american dream or something else similar to that because the propaganda on american dream and everything's surrounding all the concept concept main mental concept that that surrounded this dream where the propaganda was so strong there was so much money spent on making the the thought real and actually stick in the mind right they are now they're witnessing the how in in not feasible the promise is how how much suffering it brought to those who bore into that so they are not as conditioned that other conditioning of course can happen there but because it seems like all this societal and economical structure right now are they so it's it's so easy to see how con how much conflict they they represent yes they are a little bit more free i think they are more free because there is no confusion so they are not buying when there is a confusion it's easy not buying into the idea but the the other generation bought into very clean cut of american dream it was the picture was perfect wasn't it yes yes it's very much that and now i find that the spirit sends those towards the community that have much to offer because they they didn't buy into it and they don't have much ego to deal with they they're very sincere and they're they're very trusting and they still go through some healing and some some intensity but but it's very different now i find that as i've just continued giving and giving and giving in a very pure way i am not trying to recruit anybody i'm not trying to grow anything in size i i don't even believe i think really we're all in community i i feel i'm in community with all seven billion you know because it's all it's all our mind it's all our consciousness how can i not be in community with anyone but in in terms of people who actually come to be around me or whatever i find more and more they come in they're lighter and lighter and the ones that feel a heaviness they feel it's a sacrifice or something then they they just go you know they they're they say i'm not ready for this they said i i love you and i'm grateful i'm happy but i i'm just not ready and then they go so i i don't even have to give it a thought you know the ones that hover around that that feel oh my gosh this is so great every day they're just so pinch me oh my gosh this is the most wonderful thing they the ones that stay and then the others seem to drift away so beautiful that is so beautiful look i so look forward to visit you guys in the summer as we discussed yes yes so grateful for this for this new friendship that somehow happened in the universe and it was dropped on our heads um you are love and and i want to extend more love into your space and for you to share with all your community and i will definitely come and visit you guys whatever will be happening that's so great well when you send me the link to this i'll i'll let them know and they'll play it and they're you're all just going to fall in love with you so you'll come and visit and and have a bunch of people that are just falling in love with you because that's you you know you just just extended so naturally and it's just so felt so it's very very wonderful and i'm very grateful for this too however the spirit did this i'm very very grateful for it so much gratitude for your time david so much love and made the day unfold something phenomenal in your space and i will reconnect with you okay very good thank you oga i love you thank you so much for this