 So welcome to the Amherst Planning Board. It's Tuesday, August 27th tonight Tuesday usually we're on Wednesdays And it's 6 p.m. Not the 7 Okay, so there is six of us one member missing We will start with minutes first. We have three sets So we can do those We'll start with Wednesday June 19th Does anyone have any comments or issues or changes for those minutes? I see none Move we approve the minutes second Any more discussion all in favor say aye. I agree Okay Next set of minutes was June 26th Again any comments changes suggestions move we approve the minutes Can I have a second? Any more discussion all in favor raise your hand say I great Yeah, yes one or two abstentions yet That's true so Jack abstained so we have four people Yesing and the third minutes July 24th any comments issues discussion with those move we approve the minutes and Any more discussion? All in favor say aye raise your hand Great, so and Maria abstained on that one. I assume yes, okay good So Chris, thank you for all those minutes. Thank you Pam Credit where credit is due So right now we'll do the public comment period. This is for anything that's not on our agenda for For this evening and if there's anyone here who just wants to speak to something to the planning board. I Don't see anyone so we'll move on The third item is public hearing site plan review and special permits We did have scheduled for six o'clock Main Street, but I hope you guys don't mind We're gonna try to squeeze in something that came to our attention regarding Craig's doors. No problem. And we have a mr. Gates here Chris do you have anything that you want to say about this? Okay So a number of years ago Craig's doors and the first Baptist Church came to the planning board and requested approval to use the trailer That's behind the first Baptist Church as a service center for homeless people homeless clients who? Take part in Craig's doors Shelter and the planning board granted that Approval but they were concerned about kind of a messy condition behind the trailer And so the planning board asked that if the trailer be in place in In two or three years that the church or Craig's doors come back with a plan for landscaping that back area so mr. Gates is here with a plan for landscaping and two members of the three members of the planning board took a site visit and Possibly one of them would like to Explain what they saw but here's mr. Gates to present his plan Mr. Gates is the green light on or yeah, Chris will and then just say your name and who you're representing Gerald Gates is my name. I represent First Baptist Church at this point, but it has to do with the concern of Craig's doors also The it was concerned from the Craig's doors that they didn't want something that was solid out in back because they felt the people could hide behind it and They wouldn't know they were there My concern for the church was that we had something that was solid enough So that it would Kind of screened a trailer, but still would have plenty of room in between it So I put I think they have the pictures. Yeah, Pam or Chris could we put one of the pictures up the just the one showing the Anyway spring trailer Mr. Gates, I'm sorry for the interruption you can continue and ignore Chris Bester beside you clicking away This spring I located some grasses that grow about seven feet tall and they survived right through the winter They didn't break down. They were strong enough. So that's what you're going to see in the picture is these grass plants Put apart so that you can see in between and then in the summer you'll see some pictures of flowers on the University side of those so there's you look you see the flowers they're they're Same ones they use in pots and so forth and that would add the color through the summer in the winter time we don't worry about it because of snow plows up piles of snow You have this one and I We did get that one sent to us in an email. So the board has seen that picture So that's what we're proposing. We do we also went over with the three people that came about Keeping the place in order. We do park Two trailers in there one of them picks up food today. It was 1,700 pounds of food for tomorrow Which we give out the church gives out to food pantry to about 90 to 100 families and we also provide food during the week for the community breakfast and We also provide food to the cafe that operates in the church Thank you. Now the other trailer is one that picks up bottles and cans from the landfill and We sort them in the back Everything is undercover when we get through Those are the two trailers the other items that are there are where the water comes up from the church Down into the trailer and also we have a marker for the sewage that goes out and goes back up to the church Thank you. It might be helpful to have a report about the site visit. I don't know if Maria or Janet one of you want to Thank you three of us sure The three of us were there I think it was yesterday and We did see the sort of hitch trailer being pulled off and it's like a 12 foot trailer That's just attached to the back of a pickup and it was pulling some recycling bins away And so that trailer and another sort of the food cart trailer you're talking about right the only two large objects behind the sort of temporary structure what we call craigsdorff's trailer and It was much tidier than I don't remember what year it was now maybe two years ago where there were a lot of Shop tools and paint buckets and just debris in general and a lot of bags of cans sort of Along the entirety of the backside and when we went it was just a stainless steel table with some tools on top that were covered by a tarp and Part of a plumbing system I imagine it was like a sewage ejector and then a holding tank of some kind behind the shed and it actually looked really tidy to be honest and We saw the grasses and they were maybe six to eight feet apart from each other The flowers that mr. Gates mentioned were not installed yet, but he provided a photo to sort of Illustrate that but in general it was much more tidy and clean and did not look like sort of the backyard of the space anymore and Yeah, I don't know if you guys have anything to add These are photos Thank you At this time are there any questions from the board for mr. Gates? So Great A few months ago, mr. Weiss came as I understood as the chairman of the one for craigsdorff's You're here on behalf of the church And there was you know during and you would appear before Previous And I'm a little just still confused as to in what capacity and who is speaking on behalf of craigsdorff's and what What and what Authority you know what what actions being asked and by Because there's when mr. Weiss was here That was that was the central question and that it's not really been resolved as far at least in this moment And so I'm just not clear as to You know in what in what authority who was asking for what here other than to me a several year ago several years ago planning or condition That's correct. That was craigsdorff's use of the trailer the Church rents that portion that the trailer sets on The land outside of that trailer His first Baptist Church. I think at the time that I came before I was chairman of the board of Craigsdorff's and I'm now off the board and so Jerry Weiss was Answering to the original Petition that came before the board to use the trailer as a medius Center for homeless and I'm here Representing the church and what goes on behind the trailer on the church property So he was concerned of the use of the church You granted that use but in that granting of that use there was a two or three year period that we're supposed to come back and give some sort of Landscape setup the shelter when Jerry Weiss was here Was concerned about people hiding out back, which we're concerned about also So I think that what I'm presenting to you last through the winter has camouflaged as far as a parking lot of the University and What they saw the other day and we agreed to keep it looking that way And so there's really two things going on here But Jerry Weiss is more concerned about answering the two or three year period that that really Craigsdorff's has That you granted So my understanding that sorry Chris may I follow up? my understanding then is that The church will be maintaining this covering of the grasses and the flowers Yes, that and and thus satisfying the condition for Craigsdorff's use of the of that space for the Planning board. Yeah, they don't the Craigsdorff's doesn't use that space the church uses it Church only has granted them Property that the trailer sets on so it's really the church that is saying to you Yes, we will keep that at this point. I Benefit because I didn't know this is on the agenda Chris can you? Provide some perspective and an intro just so I can get my head back into what we're talking about here Because I'm totally confused So initially if you will recognize me initially Craigsdorff's approach the planning board to have a feeding shelter or feeding station In the trailer behind the church at the Baptist Church the Baptist Church houses Craigsdorff's Which is a shelter for people in the winter from the 1st of November to the 1st of April But they didn't have any place to have dinner They wanted to have dinner earlier than the shelter actually opened So the trailer was set upon church property and the planning board gave Permission to have that shelter there have that trailer there Then Craigsdorff's decided it was easier to feed people Inside the church rather than have them be fed in the trailer And so they moved the feeding operation back into the church and then they had the trailer on site and they said oh Well, let's use the trailer for a service center for people who are using Craigsdorff's a Place where people can come to get advice about Looking for a job or looking for an apartment or whatever kind of help that they might need being a homeless people Who don't really have access to a lot of services? So Craigsdorff's has been operating the trailer as a service center for people who use Craigsdorff's During this process the planning board was Willing to grant permission for the trailer to be there and to be used in these ways But the planning board was disappointed in the way the back of the trailer was maintained There's also an operation that mr. Gates is involved in which Uses people who stay in the shelter as Workers for the bid and they get paid for working for the bid so they do a lot of cleaning up around the downtown And some of the material that they bring from downtown. They end up Storing behind the trailer so there are really kind of three uses I guess back there one is Craigsdorff's has the trailer there one is that the bid the business improvement district has two small trailers that can be Dragged by a car or a truck that pick up material from the downtown and three is that All three groups store materials in those sheds that are behind the trailer and a lot of that material Kind of spilled out into the area behind the trailer and it became very messy There were white buckets and orange cones and all kinds of things back there So the planning board said you really have to screen it and there was a discussion about should there be a fence to screen it Or should there be Planting to screen it and some members of the planning board wanted one thing and some wanted another Craig stores in the church were concerned that if there were too solid a screening there that people would hide there and You know, there would be nefarious activities happening there. So The Church is now coming forth with this plan to have tall grasses which will grow up to six feet tall placed about I think ten feet apart Maybe I'm not exactly sure but that seemed like about the spacing and then in front of those on the UMass side They want to plant Flowers in the springtime So the people who went on the site visit saw the grasses there They were actually planted in place and they were probably about four feet tall as of this point and now you're being asked to Determine whether that meets the requirement for Providing a landscape plan for the back of the trailer the third photo has Is that real or is that design Proposing what it will look like in time. It's a schematic Yes, Janet I'm confused about who applied for the special permit and whether a person representing that group is here is the Because my thing says it's a special permit Craig's doors filed the request for a site plan review approval And then there's no one from Craig's doors here. Is that correct? And then you're representing the church who hasn't made that application I was chairman of Craig's doors at the time that that was applied for and I was the one that came before you So do we have a representative of Craig's doors now or do you know Jerry Weiss came in Representing Craig's doors and what they wanted to do in the trailer. That was what So I'm just wondering who applied for the site plan for the permit I Did yeah as chairman of the Craig's doors. That was what two two years ago three years ago so Chris if I can just clarify so Mr. Gates has been before us a few times and then We had asked for by March of 2019 for this to be followed up on and finished and at that time it was Mr. Weiss who came before us and he said that They hadn't really acted on that I don't think it was forgotten, but it just hadn't been not gotten to so we said well, you still need to come back so this is the Plantings were made and effort has been made the place has been tidied up So I think what they're asking is do you have permission to be here tonight and speak on behalf of Craig's doors and finish Yes this Okay So yeah There's just confused about who was representing who and when I have a just a comment two questions another question is When is the trailer in operation? Like what times of the year is it year-round or is smaller trailer why I meant I meant the building the the portable trailer The portable building. Oh that's use year-round. Okay, there has been for the last two years Because they've had people in there. There's a nurse that comes The office was moved down there When we asked to go from feeding to Just office and a lot of the homeless meet in there to find homes and get Get homes or get jobs From us uptown And that's what it's used for now the last two years it's been open all summer Chris a question so is this still a temporary use like how is this whole process is there an end time on it or It is Quote a temporary use I think the church has plans to expand their building at some point and incorporate Craig's doors shelter into that Building I I haven't seen those plans, but I've heard mr. Gates talk about them and I heard others talk about them I think it's going to take quite a while for them to raise the money to do this project and It's a going to be a complicated project and so it's taking them longer than they expected it to take And so that's that's all I can really say so this is temporary in quotes, but we don't have an end end date Thank you. We have hired an architect the church has hired an architect and they've worked on the master plan in that master plan There is room for a shelter Up to or a little larger than what we have were a year round They would right now they can't come in too early because the church is a very busy church and when they came it's the only place they could find in the in the town and So we said yes, you can come in but it's it's got to be under certain conditions But when we build a new one we'll make a place for them for a year round Okay, so this is all helpful and the temporary part sort of puts it more and a framework of what kind of problem We're trying to solve here. I have to go the 17th, I think it is to Boston because Rob moral has to turn down the request of the church to use it for shelter because the church is not completely sprinkled So he has to turn it down then I have to go to Boston and they give me a variance for a three-year period and I think if the planning board is going to Take a position. It would be good to follow that three-year cycle Because every three years Rob has to turn it down Every year for three years and then this I have to go back to the state if we're not in the building mode at that time that would keep The planning board up to date with what the church is doing and what Craig Stores is doing. I Hear you in the sense of that. I just with regard to the plantings is what we're really talking about today Where we left it last time it was sort of like fence or plantings but the real problem was the mess and what I observed at the site visit is It was neat and tidy. Yeah, so and hearing about these temporary options Maybe a fence is not Needed and you have the grass is planted. I assume the flowers would be planted next spring. Yes Is there a way Chris that we can okay this and then maybe the town follows up next summer? Just to make sure not just the plantings, but that it's still tidy and neat. I Can make a note to myself to do that. Yes, any other questions from the board Okay, so we would need a motion now Chris to Approve this level of plan Approve that this plan that mr. Gates is presenting meets the requirement of that condition that was in the second review approval I will just before we someone says repeats that I just want to ask the public here if there's any questions regarding this this issue I don't see any hands. So Is anyone here comfortable? For anyone else have any other questions or issues or are we ready to make a motion? I move to approve the site plan submission and That the conditions have been met from the 2017 site plan review Conditions, I hope I said that right Enough that anyone want to second that Okay, is there any further discussion? Chris anything else we forgot good. All right, so all in favor say I raise your hand So unanimous Thank you mr. Gates. I hope you have a green thumb Thank you for being patient so We'll go to the next one We're going to continue the hearing from July 24th. This is SPR 2020-01 and SPP 2020-01 462 Main Street, LLC Center East commons and we have a Follow-up from our applicants their lawyer Chris do you have anything to add? I just wanted to say something before we get started which is that Ms Chow was not present and on July 24th But she has submitted a letter saying that she's reviewed all of the materials and watched the video of the July 24th Meeting and she feels that she is eligible to vote on this project and she submitted a statement in writing Thank you. That's the mullin rule. Is that? Great. Thank you So your role Thank you very much madam chair members of the board I'm Tom Redeem an attorney with bacon Wilson here in Amherst here on behalf of the applicant for 62 main LLC in its application as the chairwoman noted For a site plane review and a special permit for the property of 462 Main Street here in Amherst with me this evening We've got the manager of 462 main the property owner Property owner John Robleski and then we have our architect Christine Royal So as a quick background, we were here on the 24th. We talked about what was existing on the site We talked about the site. We had our engineer here. We talked about the parking. We talked about the traffic We talked a bit about management and then we I think the clock struck like 1045 and I think everybody Turned into a pumpkin. So we are back here to hopefully talk about architecture Respond to any questions that you may have as you may recall we had a what I would consider a short list of homework to provide to you Cut sheets for the lighting which Christine will get into photometric plan, which she will get into We have provided draft copies of the commercial and residential leases. They're drafts. They're not finalized yet But we provided those for your records. We've got a parking management plan And a complaint response plan, which I believe were submitted initially But we wanted to make sure that you had those And then you know other than that I think John did a really great job baking this to a point where there was a complete submission initially and I think that's why We're here tonight at this earlier hour. So with my thanks for your amenability and meeting I'll turn it over to Christine to talk about the architecture Good evening, everyone. My name is Christine Royal. I'm an architect working with Mabel Street architects out of North Hampton We've been working on this project I'm happy to walk through the architectural design with you at this point as you can see in front of you is a Rendering of the West facade of the building We've taken some steps to really address the massing and the scale of this project as it runs north to south Along this site. So we're working with a few different roof heights We're working with stepping the building back and forward Along that sight line so that the view from Main Street is not overwhelming as Tom Reedy had mentioned in or we had gone through the other Evening this is a mixed use. So this contains both residential One two and three bedroom units as well as a business unit the business unit in this rendering is on the right-hand side on the lower On the south end on the first floor So this is the view from Main Street and you can see the existing building on the left-hand side and then the proposed new construction on the right-hand side and The steps that we've taken to address the massing and the scale of the project So the fronts are also garrisoned There's a short overhang overhang on the first floor as well as a porch like Overhang that's similar in language to the original building we're also working with a Clapboard and shingle siding as well as the detail around the eaves and the gables To help unify the site and the language that's there on Main Street hard with a shadow of the light This is the site plan. I think we went through the site plan pretty exhaustively in the last meeting with a civil engineer the layout of the Parking the existing building all of the storm water management So you can see that we have the setbacks Along the sides and the rear of the building and That existing curb cut in from Main Street and the new parking proposal I think maybe one thing to note on this is that There was a renegade step and light at the rear of that office space Back here That has been removed. We have not removed it from the engineering plans yet But assuming hopefully we'll get approved this evening We would update those plans and submit a final set to the town showing that the step in the light were also removed So with regard to the overall height of the building You can see we're just over 37 feet to the midpoint of the average height of the roofs Which is well below the 40-foot restriction on this site This is the site lighting plan. So we have three types of lights on the building or in the site One is a site all mounted light Those are called out. There are 12 foot pole lights. There's one at the north end of the parking There's one in the center Me so this is the first one at the north end. There's one here in this Landscaped area that divides the parking and there's another here near the entry We're also working with bollard lights So low bollard lights along the pathways that are at the edge of the parking in adjacent to the residential and business area We also have recessed canopy lights in the porch like overhang that's along the west sides of the buildings at the entries and We've also in the site photometric plan and on this plan called out the existing Lights on the existing building. So these are recent. These are surface mounted Sealing lights on the porch of the existing building as well as some Wall sconces on the exterior of the existing So this plan shows the photometric distribution of the individual lights. All of these are being specified at 3000 color the Kelvin the color temperature of the light, which I think you're all interested in as well as No less than 70 for a color rendering index And of course, they're also all dark sky compliant So this is the existing sign on the property that calls out the business use in the existing building. We plan on refurbishing this keeping the existing form as it is not making it any bigger or relocating it enlisting the new potential business operations on the site as well as the Name of the residential development Center East Commons This is a general landscaping plan that talks about the trees and the strawberry and the plantings that we're looking at for Use around the site. Most of it is centered along the parking and at the edges of the new construction Lastly, this is our site photometric plan. We worked with a vendor to Identify the lights that we would work with as well as their performance capabilities all of the zeros indicate Zero foot candles, which is important for no light trespass at the edge of the property line We're working with an average of one foot candle across the parking lot So with no more than Four foot candle hotspot so that we're reducing the glare and keeping the lighting fairly even Although low across the site As I mentioned, we're looking at 3000 for the color temperature of all of the lights The site pole lights have both type 2 type 3 and type 4 Distribution which just means the shape of the light pattern as it hits the ground the bollard lights are all type 3 Which is long and retangular as they run along the sidewalks And lastly as I had mentioned the color rendering index the minimum that we're working with is 70 The color rendering index is what allows you to tell the difference between a black shirt and a navy shirt and a green shirt in the dark Sure, so so this Photometric plan is what we worked with with the vendor for the lights as we've put them across There is an existing light bowl at the edge of the site that light has not been Incorporated into this study clearly and this is the existing curb cut onto Main Street So I'm happy to back it up to the rendering and answer any questions or talk about any comments that you might have Any questions from the board? They're all looking at the plants. I have a little one sure either the Well, it could be the I don't have it the Site plan that shows the lights where you're installing them and then looking at the light distribution I do notice the trash room as sort of like the ramp that goes up to it Is there going to be a wall mounted light there anything because it does look dark there? Let me work on I have to look at the little screen Sure, so we have a baller light indicated here for the pathway and there's an existing wall sconce as well as an existing Surface mounted and another Existing wall sconce on the building. So in this area, there is a decent amount of light with the addition of The baller for access to that area and the site light is Not far away Just on the photometric. Yeah, if you zoom in there I'm just concerned about where the ramp when you're actually getting into that little nook to go into the trash room And just on a follow-up. We don't usually get on the inside But I sued when you go in there's automatic lights that will go on or something like that So I'm just trying to think of safety if you're sure bringing your trash out as far as occupancy sensors So there is a limitation when we're working with vendors for their understanding of the existing lights and what you know What light they put out which is why this says zero at that point So we do know that there are existing lights on the building that we plan on maintaining and that with the baller light In this space that were we should have more than enough. This is one foot candle right here at the in the middle and Two and a half. I know it's hard to read there two and a half foot candles at the baller light And I think that mr. Roblesky would if it if it was any concern put an additional light there It tucked away in the corner to make sure that there's not an issue. Yeah, or replace the existing with a light that could be Photometrically plan do any other board members have see a concern that I Have a question about where the door to the trash room is is it just dark there? No, the door to the trash room is not dark. Let's see. I think Trash rooms that back part of the existing building, right Yeah, so this is this is a sidewalk going into the trash room and the bikes On the side So I think this is the location of where the right John, this is where the trash door will be It's currently on the north side, but it's being relocated to this side at the end of that a sidewalk Sidewalk and if you could just pull that down a little bit This this seems to be frozen. It's we haven't talked about the wheelchair ramp. That's there for access Is that what that is there on the north of the north side of the building? There is no wheelchair around. That's what I was wondering. So what is the? There was the trash room where the existing door is and then I understood that it was being moved to the east side Which we can see the ramp there. It's a sidewalk. Yes, and then is there anything on the north side of the building? I see some lines a bike rack So I'm just wondering that area if we go back to the It's it says it's all zeros at the door of the trash room and the bike racks So that's what I'm sort of having the concern about Yep, I understand your concerns so as I had mentioned there is an existing light here and There are others along the porch to wall sconces and a surface mounted ceiling light But the vendor is only able to model the lights in the photometric plan that they provide That is really the limitation when the board asks for a photometric plan It makes us work with a vendor who can supply the plan But then they only will show the lights that they are providing I Understand that so you're saying there's an existing light on the north side. There are three Existing I just need you to assure us that those are Going to be similar to what you're proposing. They'll be downward-facing. They are sky-compliant, right? That's so even though the door will be taken out the electricity that will stay there and there'll be a light. Yes That goes on and off with like the other lights, right? Okay, that's okay Does anyone have any other questions about the other information they brought back to us? This I just had a question about the sign. I know we got a photo in here. Yes, it's showing a light that is in a bush Yes, so this is the planted area and there is the light here for the sign Yes Yeah, and you have some working are going to be replaced It's just will ultimately make sure that the lights there are functioning right now I think the photos you got were the ones that John you had sent Which just show that the the lights are in a poor state of repair and not functioning So yeah, ultimately we will and we'll make sure that they're focused I mean they're going to be up lighting That's the type of sign that this is but they'll be focused on the sign So as to not just be floodlights going straight up in the air They will be focused on the side and this would be done before the new building is opened and yeah, along with Janet did you have a question? I have a question about the lease and It's you There's not going to be students allowed on this property and they're not going to lease the students How do you enforce that is that in the lease or where will that be? Yes, undergrad. Thanks. That's a policy of ours You know, we have the property next door and that's really enforced through the vetting process the application process Students are not a protected class So it's not a requirement of the lease. It's just you don't lease to undergraduates as a policy Yeah, we have the you know, 12 units next door and we've never had undergraduates there. It's kind of a mix of professionals and graduate students working couples professionals from Japan Though it's it's a good mix and that's what we intend to do here. Also Michael to follow up on that question I I've been on this board for a number of years now and I Have always been under the impression That it was not possible to discriminate against undergraduates in rental Processes now you're saying you can do that I'd like some clarification as to why that is permissible and why it has not been permissible in other developments that have When where this issue has arisen sure so I think Put a finer point on it I think the word discrimination is the one we want to stay away from and I think what mr. Robleski is saying he's He's not discriminating against them by not allowing them in he is just as we've seen with other conditions of other developments Choosing marketing strategies that elicit the types of tenants that he wants and I think that buffered with the fact that Students are not a protected class Because I think stepping back if he went in and said I'm not going to rent any students There's probably going to be an issue with that whether it's That he that he is discriminating and somebody wants to take a shot at saying you're discriminating you can't do that and now's the Time and we're going to make an example of you or There are some other Reasons why they can say yeah, you're saying it's because we're students But it's really because we're filling some other protected class So I think we want to be careful about saying discrimination on the one hand because I think you're right While they may not be a protected class You always want to be you know, you don't want to discriminate But I think what mr. Robesky can do is gear his marketing efforts towards folks that he he wants in there And so it's it's the media through which he communicates. It's the references it's it's whether he goes through the undergraduate housing or he goes through a graduate study program or The different advertising devices, so I just I think we want to be careful about it because I don't want the representation to be He's discriminating against students I think he has done a great job in his existing property and I trust will do a great job at this property to make sure that it's appropriately managed and that for him to do that he finds that The marketing mediums he uses is the the best to accomplish that you want a lawyer answer That's a as lawyers I can get but So so It strikes me that this is Slippery I think a fairer question to the developer is Will you accept an undergraduate as an attendant is a matter of my policy to this point? No How do you justify that? Marketing aside, I understand that the marketing strategies But if if some undergraduate with the right amount of cash comes in off the street, how can you say I'm sorry? I can't I won't rent to you. I don't know that you can I don't I don't know that We haven't had conversations about that saying turn people down if they are undergraduates So I don't know how to answer I mean if you look on some of the marketing Sites, you know like gamers to rent comm and so forth a lot of them do say no undergraduates. I Think this has been through the process, you know a few times and landlords are able to do that And it's you know the kind of property we want to maintain Because you know I know what the undergraduate scenario could be and We wanted to we want to avoid that I mean I have a house further down Main Street That's always been undergraduates, but we manage it the same and we never had any issues So it's you know a lot to be said I think in a way it's managed and the way it's the application process goes Also, I meet with the parents down the air for the undergrad And give them my phone number my cell phone everything has communication back and forth. I understand the Goals of your policy and I'm in sympathy with them My question really is not so much To you as it is a general question relative to Many of the other developments that we have discussed in the last three years at this board in many cases It has been said that it is impossible to eliminate undergraduates from Buildings because it is they are Although the word protected class may not have been used that has been the assumption And I'd like to I just want to make it clear for the board and for the record that In this case we are assuming The developer has the option to exclude undergraduates So that when this issue comes up again We can tell developers that yes, you have the option to exclude undergraduates if you choose to do so and That may be an issue that we need to think about as a board in the future So I think that's a great question and we should figure it out partly I was just reading the Amherst housing market study and they were recommending that Apartments be built for non students undergraduate students to kind of open up space for families and you know people in their 20s and so so that'd be a great Legal question to answer But it also makes me look at this building somewhat differently Because you're not going to always be the owner of the of the building and so I think we have to consider that in the future You know these apartments could be filled with undergraduate students are partially filled in what would the impact be on the neighborhood in a Building that's maybe not so well managed. I know that we have the bylaw and things like that But I think we should look at it as this looks like it's going to be a really well managed situation But future owners may not adhere to that and so we should think about that impact as we discuss Another issue that's arising it has to do with Subletting and the potential Airbnb or the short-term rental possibilities and In just glancing at not really studying at all the Subletting provision. It doesn't seem as if that's there's there's protections against that And I'm wondering if you've given that thought what your thoughts are if they're if it's consistent with being concerned about short-term turnover And conversion of your use of these spaces for other purposes How you would protect against that Well our subletting policy as it says in the least there's you know They the subletter would have to go through the same application process as the original tenant So we would go through that same process and and not until I approve that sublet Are they allowed in? So as far as the Airbnb, I've never really considered that type of thing, but I understand what you're saying. I Don't foresee that ever happening. I mean I have two daughters One of them is very interested in a real estate and they foresee it staying in the family for a good long time So I guess I can't answer what's going to happen, you know 20 25 years down the road, but All I can say is that's our intention at this point is to manage it the same as we have next door and further down Main Street with the undergrads and I think if if the the short-term rental the Airbnb is I think it's likely deemed some sort of subletting like a quasi subletting and I think if if a tenant were to I mean because Airbnb's are advertised online and so if Mr. Robleski saw that one of his units one of the Units was advertised online I think the next thing is a call or a visit to the person that's there saying, you know what our subletting provision is And then I think the next step is for us to have a conversation about whether Airbnb makes sense at all short-term rental makes sense at all because I think part of it is If somebody's Hard up against it and they're a professor and they're going to visit at some other university can and they have to pay the rent To mr. Robleski, but they can't find somebody to take their lease. What can they do and is Airbnb some sort of Solution and we just haven't vetted the question yet But I don't think just on its face. It's something that we should immediately say no But it's something I think we have to talk about some more Could that possibly be a condition of the approval? I mean, I'm okay with that. I mean I'd rather than get into a situation like that I would let the unit stay vacant for a period of months until the next turnover time Is that something we usually do is that exactly what was the question? What what could be a condition of the approval? I wasn't sure that I understood that Well, it could come from the board or do you want to propose What you'd be comfortable with putting on that as a condition I mean, I would suggest that he not put that condition on if it was up if it was up to me It's hey, of course, I mean leave it to see what the market dictates and if there's an issue then I mean we can address it at that time, but I think just to I think John has proved himself as a Valuable property owner and property manager. I think you've got I've taken a look at the list of Potential conditions and you've got one in there where if John's no longer the manager The next manager has to come in at a public meeting and in review and have that new management plan approved Which I think if there have been issues at the property at that time There's the opportunity to address them. So I would suggest we don't impose that condition. Okay, thank you for making that clear So does the board want to propose something that's a condition? Are we talking about Airbnb specifically? I'm just thinking about the expansion of the The possibility of tenants current tenants posting online whether it's couch surfing or or or worse, you know you moving into Posting online the bedroom for short-term Rentals that may fly under the radar of the otherwise vigilant and scrupulous mr. Roblowski I'm you know, I'm not confident in the management, but but I'm just I'm as these things develop and we Are trying to not anticipate 30 years in advance, but be a little more proactive in in thinking about Developing you know changing uses to the projects that are approved Okay, could I jump in I have I have that in my leases with my tenants that they cannot Do Airbnb's I just not really want them profiting off of my that way. So that could be a lease condition So are you proposing that we put a condition that? They do not allow for Airbnb or anything like that in their buildings My issue with it right now is is it it's not exactly spot zoning, but This is an issue It is an issue that we have to look to to all of our buildings And and maybe we need to get reactive to this is holistically and come up with something on how we can apply this to To all and not just my girl on one this is where I get uncomfortable But Chris do you have some feelings on this? Well? I think the state is coming up with some regulations about this and the town probably should look at this very carefully I think the intention is there to look at it There just hasn't been the time and it does seem to me to be a more global problem than just focused on this particular Property so I think that you know as a town we should really look at this issue, but perhaps not Make this condition for this particular property at this time. I Feel comfortable that he's an experienced landlord and it's pretty obvious that he wouldn't want to have Airbnb's coming in and out of his building You expressed how careful you are about subletting So I assume that would just go to a higher level also It is an important issue and it's going to keep coming up but So, you know Chris, please Please you know keep us abreast of because I know the state is trying to you know They got the taxes out now. They're cranking on some and it is changing all over the country My daughter is in Hawaii right now, and she is in the last two weeks of doing Airbnb's and Well, she's in Honolulu because they won't be allowed to do Airbnb's anymore. So it is changing. Yeah Yes, Jenna, I have a question about the parking waiver and Which is section 7.9 of the zoning bylaw? And I just wanted to clarify that you're asking for a waiver under 7.910 Which is that peak parking needs generated by on-site uses occur at different times? Because there's not enough parking and you're asking for a waiver And I know that at the site visit you were saying that you know this day use by your offices And you're expecting your tenants to be off and you know driving about and so you they're going to be at different times I just want to clarify that's what you're seeking. That's the ground I think what we're seeking is two-fold. So that's part of it is that they're like complimentary uses You have the office use because it's a mixed-use site. So you've got the office uses which occur 8 to 5 9 to 5 and then you have The residential uses which occur at the opposite hours and 8 to 8 or 5 to 8 depending But then also your bylaw requires that two spaces be provided for every dwelling unit what we're asking for We're saying we're not going to meet that what we're meeting is some lesser amount Where we're providing the number of spaces? Let me get it out here. So I don't miss speed. So I think we've got One space per And I think it should be in your packet one space per one in two bedroom and in two spaces for each of the three bedrooms And so we're we're looking for a waiver from strict compliance with application of two you two spaces per unit Are those restrictions expressed in the lease? Yes, they they will be they will be for each so for one bedroom They will have one parking space designated to it. Yes And that goes to I think at the last meeting I said the property next door we have 40 bedrooms there and Through the years at the park and the number of cars per bedroom ratio on down I just had four grad students come visit today. They sign a new lease for number eight and one has a car They like the location, you know the bus stop right there in front of the building here So they actually walk from 22 High Street right to the front of that office that we're proposing there right to the bus stop Which is right at that telephone pole in front of the building So I think location has a lot to do with it and that's what they're looking for grad students don't typically have a lot of money and Sometimes don't have a car and that's what we've seen over the years even the professionals They have one car So you said you have 40 spots next door and I think at the last meeting you had said something that you had been doing some loose Counts and it was more and I think four years ago. We had Well years back when we first built it 20 years ago. I think we had like 30 cars and there's 34 parking spaces The last four years have gone 28 27 The last two years including the upcoming year 23 So that also means you do have some Overflow parking in that other building because it's not usually ever maxed out There yeah, there's always spaces there I mean you can drive in there most any time and you know even on the Sunday morning and see that there's probably Six or eight spaces easily Maria First I want to say I really appreciate the way the architecture has stepped down at the street to really keep with the scale of the houses So I'm just gonna put that out there and so we're talking about parking Have you designated which ones are for the business versus residential? I didn't quite catch it in the plan I think it came down to When you look at the ratio By understanding the question are you asking how many spaces are required for the business? Oh, no, actually is that actually designating? Yeah, so there are some compact spaces as well as full-size spaces And are you looking to designate the spaces for the office versus residential? And the other questions as far as the construction staging are the is the existing building still in use during construction or So do you have a plan for like I'm staging and management of the yeah the current time there He said he's like a two employees We actually had one of the bigger tenants just moved out They deal with some children that have speech difficulties and some physical difficulties and found that the old building Wasn't quite meeting their needs. They moved actually right to the center of town So the one tenant that's still there is the crossmen of properties and he's the one that's going to move into the new But he can stay there, you know during that time He's familiar to be FW and if you remember we have the permission from the VFW, which is directly across the street So we don't foresee that is an issue so I Have done some bad math on your Parking thing because I thought that you were had enough spaces to account for your your residential use And so I see in the parking waiver section that if you have peak parking needs generated by on-site use is Acquiring at different times. I was thinking oh, okay, so you know people are out during the day the office is I don't see anything in the bylaw that lets the board just say they wanted less They didn't think they were going to need that much and there are some conditions That we could reduce it, but I don't see where that would be met by just saying We just don't think we're going to need that much and so that's sort of my where I'm hanging right now Chris We have traditionally relied on section 7.9 of the bylaw which says any section or a subsection of article 7.0 parking regulations may be waived or modified by the permit granting board or special permit granting authority authorized to act under the Applicable section of the bylaw for compelling reasons of safety aesthetics or site design So I think that's what they're asking for their modification under 7.90 Also Chris When was that bylaw last edited or created do you know because to me it's sort of an old It's been around a long time and it's sort of like the Airbnb things You know trends are changing and this is another area that we're going to have to look at To bring up to modern times It might it might be an old law, but it is a law and I would just be happy if you would come up with a compelling reason of safety aesthetics or site design And so not any reason but like a compelling I think I mean site design is the reason When you look at how linear the site is and the number of parking spaces that can fit on the site Plus when you think one of the board members mentioned The scaling and the massing of the property When you look at the site and how it can be developed and I'll even step back further and say this was a site That was rezoned some number of years ago to allow uses specifically like this And so the only way to make a meaningful Development is to design it like this and so what we've got to do is because of the linear nature of the site Place the parking on each side of that drive aisle and as a result There's only a certain number of parking spaces that we can get where we end up with the 32 and I think with that Especially giving past planning board practice Mr. Roblesky's testimony relative to the the actual number of parking spaces that are needed We think that those are both compelling reasons and I think site design and even aesthetics Are what the the board should rely on Well, if I may speak, you know to the site design if you're a member, you know, I met with the neighbors And talked about designing so we could save some mature maple trees that are currently given them Some shade protection, you know from the buildings there and anything that goes on there So the one island that we have In between that upper part right there. There's like a 24 inch maple tree there And that you know gives shade to the property to the west and on the north end of the park a lot Or I think we talked about that one 12 foot light pole is that gives the shade and so forth to the house directly to the north and That fence that's actually shown there is is installed. We put that in last week So that white fence the six and six foot height white Vinyl fence that now comes around the corner and they like the way that looks Gives them kind of a sense of a more private yard So that's you know part of the design aspect to Jack you mentioned you have Access parking on the neighboring lot that you manage as well. Is there a path? that would be available in terms of Being able to walk if that is overflow parking is there well, like yeah, they currently do walk They walk like you see the existing sewer line there in front of that building They walk right down the sidewalk there and then right along Where the drain is right there they go right to the bus stop They've kind of created a path there. I don't provide a path there Kind of like cows go past or they get But yeah, I guess They can certainly park next door if I have spaces, but I don't want to say yes You can park over there. It's actually worked out this past winter for big snow storms I have my tenants from high street parking a lot that's currently on 460 to clean everything up So I see that you know happening in the future when both properties also just you know for snow management. I Will bring up the how you had gone to the historical commission and They deemed the I don't know shed or Sure and whatever it is So they did put a 12-month delay on it But they said that the delay could be lifted sooner if you Come up with alternatives to why it's or why it's not feasible and You know, that's not our jurisdiction, but I just want to say that if Whatever gets changed on the plans would have to come back here, of course, especially regarding the parking Of course and mr. Roblesky had been through the look before the last time we were here Mr. Roblesky had been through the historical commission and They waived demolition delay because they found that the building was not significant Fast-forward 15 months without anything materially changing. They have now found that it is significant Yes, there's only 15 months ago. No June 12th of 2018 was they here and Yeah, they seemed it not significant at that point and did not put a one-year delay So now No idea. All right, so as long as you know that Any other questions from the board? At this point, I was going to open it up to a public comment. Is there anyone here who has any questions for this? I Nope, someone just got Nope, no questions. Okay So Chris at this point, I have a list of possible conditions, and I don't know if you added any more but having not done this before do I go through each question and Just solicit comments from the board if anyone has So Staff came up with some suggested conditions for you that are based on other projects that we've done in the past I did review them with the building commissioner And I think there the conditions are in your packets the ones that were mailed to you And you could go through those one by one and decide whether you think those are appropriate or not another thing you could do is Just kind of put this public hearing on hold and go on to the next one the tree hearing because I know there are a lot of People here and they go back to this one I think it's going to take you a while to go through the conditions Exactly, and then you're also going to have to go through your site plan review criteria In 11.24, so there's kind of a lot of work that still needs to be done on this project and you know if you think you can Put this one on hold and go to the tree hearing and get through that quickly you can come back to this I'm just suggesting that as possible. I agree and do I go through the conditions first or go through the The other list which do I do first? Sometimes if you go through the criteria it elicits new conditions. I mean you can do it Okay, that's all right. We'll do the criteria and then we'll do conditions. All right, so Because we have a room full of a lot of people who I know who are waiting for the tree hearing I Have to maneuver you guys around again. I'm so sorry. Thank you for your continued patience, but So work do I have to take a make a motion to put the Public hearing on hold or can I take a motion to suspend the Late of this evening and come back to it later in the evening And it's okay for our architect to do a motion leave All right, our architect can leave we don't need to I Don't know if there's gonna be any other questions. Let me are there any other questions for the architect. I See none. Thank you so much So what yes, this is not so much a question is that is a comment And I want to I want to commend the architect and the developer for creating a project Which beautifully fits into the existing landscape? And provides in my view all of the aesthetic issue it solves all of the aesthetic issues that infill development raises so often in this town and I think this is an excellent example of Developing more housing at a scale that is appropriate to the neighborhood And I think the two principles should be commended for this Yes, my math was wrong So the 32 spaces fits in very nicely with the exception about the use So I I don't I shouldn't do this on the fly so I don't think you have to reach to compelling reasons So but I agree with the remark that this is a very attractive project. I appreciate that That the packet was very well-prepared Great, thank you. We'll see you later. So someone want to make the motion move to continue to Suspend the hearing to later in the day Second yeah, okay all in favor. Yeah, I great Unanimous, okay, so let me just organize my papers for a moment This they gave me to this thing And it's a two-sided with lots of writing We do have a preamble for this public hearing. Do you have a copy of it? I have that yes So I'm going to start the next hearing in accordance with the provisions of MGL chapter 40 5c scenic roads and chapter 87 three Shade trees this joint public hearing between the planning board and the tree warden has been duly advertised in the daily Hampshire Gazette and posted in town hall So scenic road tree removal for construction of a mixed-use building and site improvements In the town right of way 133-143 Southeast Street map 15c parcels 3 and 4 The public shade trees impacted by this project include the following sizes 6 18 inch Arbor by Arbor Vitae on the northern property line 142 inch Katalpa tree 124 inch spruce 122 inch spruce that is dead one 14 inch crab apple tree and one six inch elm or Hickory and one swamp white oak to be transplanted by the town Several large oaks and a red maple on the southern edge that might have impact to roots as a result of grading Yes, Chris, I have some photographs of the trees If you wanted to look at them now or we can look at them later Can I just ask if there's any board disclosures? Not I see none Sure These are photographs that were taken over a period of time The ones without any leaves on them for the katalpa were taken last spring And then there are some more close-up photographs that were taken recently of the The cavity in the Katalpa tree. We also have some photographs of the spruce trees spruce tree And these were sent to you earlier today, so I'm just going to run through them quickly and then perhaps There may be a presentation by someone in the room Could you hit the Expand square so they're bigger. That's better So this is the Katalpa in front of The building that's directly behind the Florence savings bank Taken from different angles This is the cavity in the tree where the three main branches come together I'm sorry if I jumped ahead of mr. Snow He may have been the better person to get this presentation, but I just wanted to show you these pictures It's good to see them because then we know we can refer back to them and it won't be the first time So these are the ones that were taken more recently This is the crotch of the tree And this is down into the crotch of the tree And you can see the tree is split splitting. It's being held up by cables at this point This is one of the really beautiful big branches So I think that's the end Katalpa, is that right? No, this is taken from the property line looking directly down the south down the property line And you can see one of the cables has disengaged But there are more cables holding up the branches And I think that's it for the Katalpa And then we have a couple of pictures of the spruce Let's see how do I get back there and this spruce is described by mr. Snow He'll describe it later as being a healthy mature spruce tree But he did note at one point or somebody noted that it has a split trunk So this is a close-up and this is what it looks like from a distance So I will seed my time to mr. Snow. Excuse me Welcome hi Alice no tree one the Board was I believe sent the Memo I sent out today about the condition of the current condition of all the trees If you want to refer to that and I just want to ask how many members of the board were able to visit the tree Just about everybody great Okay So the pictures are going to be very helpful if you want to go into more detail about the condition of the trees Again the blue spruce which is under up on the screen right now No, it's proof. Excuse me the Does have it's it's one potential defect is a co-dominant stem where the two, you know Terminal buds have grown in two competing leaders that are quite long and those are historically, you know the weak Link in a in a spruce tree like this of this size and There were there was another spruce tree in front and one behind as well Sort of east and west of that tree that also have already failed so It's a very tall Specimen with a lot of sale that is above the existing tree canopy around there, so it tends to catch all the wind Do you want individual questions on each tree or wait till the end? And go tree by tree is it is it better for The spruces to be together like is it at risk because it's exposed is it tougher tougher life for it? So I'm trees generally when they're grown together like in a stand trees Grove of trees they do protect one another and they do force the tree to grow sort of Straight up to compete for light So reduces the likelihood of having these co-dominant stems and things like that open grown trees, you know historically develop wider Crowns because there's less competition for light So they tend to fill out much wider than they would in a forested situation Chris I thought it might be helpful if mr. Snow either read or summarized his whole memo and Described each tree and what's going on with it? And then if you had questions, I think then everybody would know they'll be on the same page sure All right, so the we'll start then with the catalpa the 42 inch catalpa and his current condition Generally the tree itself is the the crown the leaves twigs the buds are healthy and growing They don't appear to have any major You know Insect disease problems that would be detrimental to the health of the tree So the living photosynthesizing tissue of the tree is is quite healthy at this point in time It had a nice flower of the spring as is evident by the abundant seed pods everywhere um The main leaders of the tree all have significant decay That have opened cavities, so it's not like a Cavity that you see a bird coming out of that's is walled off With a small opening these are wide openings that run, you know for feet along the trunk or the leader of each leader and The decay is quite extensive in there two of the All of the leaders of the tree have been cabled back to the center central leader of the tree That's a common practice to support the more horizontal branches Two of those cables have failed already So they they were installed either so long ago that the wood around it has rotted or the cable Material itself has failed and they're just hanging in the tree right now not supporting anything The main stem of the tree well back up The the decay in the leaders Continue from the leader down into the branch attachment point so for each one of these leaders or branches attached to the tree The decay continues into the stem through the branch So the main trunk so the decay is continuous all the way to the ground level in the tree So it's missing a lot of its holding wood Let's see the main stem again Has the same irregular cavity with openings That you can literally reach down into and I did To determine how much holding wood there was left in the main stem So the each branch is sort of Open to the air where it attaches to the main trunk. It's it's a very interesting It has a lot of characteristics a lot of character, excuse me for an old tree Pam could we put the one of the photos up of the tree the Or the catalba tree instead of the spruce just so people aren't Chris maybe even the one that shows this the the crotch of the leaders We refer to it as the branch attachment point the branch. Okay. I was following the Yeah, so right there that is where two of the main leaders Come down and attach to the trunk of the tree And you can see that they're not physically attached to one another and They move almost independently of one another And the other leaders of the tree and There again, I did climb up in there and I dug down with my hands To find out how far there's so much organic matter in there is impressive and You know to find the sound the sound wood that is in there And that continues up so I can literally stick my hand up into that central leader right there That goes about six or seven feet up into the main leader And so that would be the if you packed up one more photo that would be an example of the bottom side of the branch or leader and That would be the good hold. That's where the holding wood is right now That's where the sound wood is located in the in that particular trunk branch connection Again, you can see there you have long lateral branches, and then not more upright leaders the Leader that goes off to the left there heads directly towards the property that Particular leader there will need significant pruning in order for the building to be built because it grows well over the property line onto private property, so Physically in order to build the building we'd need to remove about 20 feet of that leader right there branch So in discussing Tree arborist tree People tree wardens, you know, we're always we're we're doing risk assessments on everything we look at We do it all day long So risk requires There to be something there that you don't want to be damaged It could be a car parking lot a house pick tables people walking on the street and You know, there's a there's a normal level of risk. We accept in everyday activities and in trees and everything the the risk Changes as you begin to add defects Known defects in the trees, so you have you know, it could be that co-dominant stem I was talking about in the spruce it could be The cavities and the leaders it could be the cavities in the trunk You know multiple things add up to determine the likelihood of Failure and Once something fails. What is the target? Currently under the current use sort of land use there the target potential is relatively low Because the property really isn't being utilized and it hasn't been you know Actively utilized in a while. I'm not quite sure how long but so the actual risk right now of something failing and hitting somebody or something is Relatively, you know low to moderate and That risk could be mitigated by installation of new cables bracing or Pruning to help reduce that risk even further of something failing. It's assuming that you know, we don't change the land use around the trade Again, this is just the assessment of current conditions Can you hold your questions till later? Thank you. I'll answer that question at a late date Don't let me forget So, you know, obviously so if those if the land use changes there which it's intending to that Form is going to change quite a bit in order to make the tree To mitigate that risk some of the common practices that are done is to do exclusion zones Where you physically put up a barrier to stop people from going underneath the tree This is done with historic trees and significant trees all the time and you know, whether it's an appropriate use for this particular situation or Not, you know, I'm not sure The other thing you do is the bracing of using physical structures to support the weight of the branches and then cabling again and doing things like that to support the tree to keep it growing and reduce Reduce the risk of failure So the the spruce tree we already discussed the one You know risk factor in the trees to go down the stem Which again could could be mitigated through cabling or bracing 14-ish multi-stem crab apple appears to be a healthy crab apple like most crab owls is full of full of water sprouts and suckers and Needs a lot of pruning to get it back into shape the arborvidee You know, it seems to be a typical arborvidee head that hedge that is getting mature and Doesn't appear to be anything necessarily wrong with it at this point in time There was there are the trees on the list that We're not requesting any kind of really don't require hearing the dead spruce tree That was snapped off doesn't require tree hearing. It's you know, just needs to be removed There's also another clump of vegetation to the south of the property with a dead elm tree in it. I think that was referred to as a Hickory I think maybe that was actually a dead elm tree So large oaks and a red maple on the southern edge Okay, those are the those are the trees that are outside the property line that are on the wood edge that if they Depending on how much they change the grade around those trees potentially could be impacted by the construction as well I don't believe they're on town property. They're on private property. So Jason Jason property Mr. Snow, are you going to mention or talk about your recommendation options? Yes, if you'd like me to do that now Sure, okay so My recommendation option for the catalpa would be to Based on knowing the type of construction that's going to take place there what it would You know involve to try to preserve it Without a guarantee that actually would preserve it for a significant amount of time would be to Permit removal of the tree with full replacement value My You know not preferred option probably would be to the do the exclusion zone and the retaining wall and the bracing and the cabling and the pruning To try to preserve the tree with no guarantee that we would succeed in doing that The spruce tree 24 inch spruce tree I recommend removal and replacement value Based replacement value is based on $90 per inch of diameter breast height so That replacement value would be $2,260 that could help her would be three seven hundred and eighty dollars Crab Apple I Recommend removal With full replacement value twelve hundred and sixty dollars and And our righty again recommend removal with replacement based on Sort of in kind replacement, so we'd be getting six new bald and burl up our varieties that are six feet tall Or the value there of those trees It's difficult to do a DBH on a Her providing The only thing I have to add is that in order for the trees to be removed both the tree warden and the planning board need to Make a recommendation that the trees be removed or need to agree that the trees are going to be removed if one or the other Does not decide to Agree with that Then the trees cannot be removed But we have received so so if the planning board and the tree warden do agree that the trees can be removed We've received two letters of opposition from residents So now even though the planning board and tree warden would agree that the trees can be removed The decision would go to the town manager We we've checked this with our town council Joel Bard and town attorney Joel Bard and he has Stated that the decision would go to the town manager So that would be the procedure that you and the tree warden it would make your decision And then if you agree that the trees would be removed then The town manager would also need to weigh in on the decision So we go through our process and then we will take a vote Am I to understand that the statement that mr. Snow just made and his document that we've been provided is that the So he's made his recommendation correct So that would be to remove all of the trees I and maybe Either of you can answer this so when I added up it's $7,200 which is a significant amount of money and I was wondering what happens to that money And if any of that money could be Funneled back into any of the trees that would be the replanting of trees, you know, there's standard trees we use I know mr. Snow, but you know, would it be possible to get a special tree or something to sort of start anew? So the money this goes into the tree Gift fund all this all the replacement value Assessed value on trees goes into tree planting fund So that money specifically to purchase new trees to be planted around town And do either of you have any thought that it just goes into that catch-all or could it be? applied back to Where the trees were taken? So the the applicant has a planting plan Already involved in that so the funds would go to not that we couldn't plant trees there but there is a planting plan for this project to To put back into the public way when these trees are removed the money would be used separately Because the landscaping plan that will be provided by the developer he's paying for those trees correct Do you impact choosing them or is that just what the developer comes up with? I'm saying this because it's public way. We should make that clear that the area We're talking about is actually town land correct, so the tree warden is required to Approve all tree planting in a public way, okay, so opening it up to the board questions about the trees Jack I just wonder how old the tree is and and is there some history with regard to the care of it Or the years with the cabling who did the cabling? Things like that I do not know the history of the tree It does it is an old tree. There's no doubt about that could help us do grow relatively fast and they tend not to live really long lives, but They're they tend to be a fast-growing weak wooded tree in general, but obviously they do they can live for quite a long time As far as the cabling goes that I'm not sure if those cables were installed by the town I Believe the property owner may have actually paid for the installation of those trees in the past, but The cabling those trees in the past, but he can clarify that come at some point So this tree is like a super senior tree. I Guess in tree age. Yeah, it's it's getting up there Janet So just to clarify all these trees you're describing are healthy and the Catalpa is old and kind of Full of holes, but it's still blooming and so are you risk? recommending removal because you don't think they're gonna survive the construction project or I didn't really understand like they're all healthy Recommending approval like what's the next what's the missing step in that? That's a very good question the so it is because the Project that has been proposed is to change the grade significantly by feet around most of these trees by several feet and You know most trees can't tolerate that the grade change of even an inch of soil the two inches of soil definitely But by changing the grade of soil you suffocate the roots essentially They can't get oxygen and they they die and the tree dies shortly thereafter So yes, I I do not see how If the grade changes are going to happen on this project that these trees can survive the other questions It was interested the if you read the risk assessment report by McCarthy and do you have an opinion? I know I know you spoke to risk assessment in your own Voice there, but is this is that a good report you think? No, well, I think it is good. It is a good report. It does point out all the you know all of the you know obvious issues with with the trees that are in question most of them are You know normal sort of tree conditions that you know can be mitigated the Catalpa is the one tree there that Happens to be the biggest tree and also happens to have the most significant The issues with it one of the things I didn't go into that the Report didn't cover was I did I did do a resist a graph of the tree Which is a tool that can be used to measure decay in wood and the a tree essentially has between Make sure I get this right 7 to 11 7 to 11 inches of holding wood so it's healthy wood that goes around the circumference of the trunk so out of a You know a 42 inch tree. There's roughly You know 6 to 11 inches of sound with there And that's not uncommon, you know in old trees in this particular tree You can actually see it though because it's of the open cavities. You can look down into the trunk and see the decay So is that More than half the diameter then of the tree that is Not healthy Yeah, where's the cavity? Yes Although the top is a beautiful tree now My understanding and my observation is that it's structurally unsound and that whether that Occurs tomorrow or in you know sometime in the future It's hard to know but with the proposed change of views and the increase of of traffic and Increase views that risk in the level Significantly changes that affairs, you know summary of your assessment Yes, it's a very good summary With your Recommendation change or be affected by if it was a historic tree like say Harriet Tubman had given a speech under the tree Like with that effect or have an effect on you or I mean, I don't think that's true here But I'm just wondering what the factors are Yes, I Mean I think I've tried to be very fair in my assessment of the risk and in the ways that we can mitigate risk So if it if the tree has a higher Just say social value to it, you know historic value That generally means that we're willing to spend more money on preserving it We can we can put as much money as you want into something to preserve it and keep it going But they're the ability to do that within reason Is what we're trying to I'm trying to balance So on that line if you were trying to preserve it you have if we have Three feet of fill coming in you have to build a retaining wall to hold back that Three feet of soil and you're saying the drip line So that's like the outer edges of where the branches are Which is Huge and then you'd also have to put bracing under the Vertical leaders and then now your retaining wall is Over 30 inches high and it's in a public park. So you might have to have fences So this this could run into some significant money If that was the and then a part of one of the leaders could break and then All that I mean, then you just have a broken tree in the middle of a Yeah, correct. Yeah, are there any other questions from Michael? From the picture we're looking at now the tree appears to be Kind of out of balance because of the long leader which is the leader which goes into where the building is proposed to be Constructed, is that right? The photo does appear to show that but you're not if you saw a photo of it in leaf As it is now where it was earlier this summer It actually has a very uniform crown Well, I'm not so much thinking about the crown as I am about the supporting architecture of the tree it I wonder whether it pruning eliminating that long leader and Allowing the rest of the tree to exist as it is would help The life of the tree that remains or whether that would be a useless kind of operation Seems to me that the shape of the tree the shape of the tree without that leader is Perfectly adequate as a tree and I understand that the crown fills out completely But I'm wondering if that would be a way to help preserve the tree to remove it from impinging on the development and Extending the life as extending its life that's another great question the So I mean old trees have a hard time balancing their their living tissue and In all their supporting, you know wood and everything so it's a it's a very delicate balance in old trees As it gets as is with some humans as we age that You know they you actually really need all of that and so if you start Reducing the crown or removing large portions of healthy leaders You're going to really disrupt the the available nutrients to keep that tree in the delicate balance That it's in right now. It's right now. It's it's growing. It's putting on new healthy tissue And it's decaying so it's a race between the decay and the new wood as to you know Who's going to win and as we all know The decay is going to win eventually so but we don't know exactly when that's going to happen Thank you There's a picture showing the property line running down that West property line So thinking of what Michael was saying if that was cut. There's other parts of the tree that still have to be cut on the West side Because they extend over the property line Yeah, so the property like where you see the broken Cabling the line actually goes sort of at an angle So it's probably mid-center of the photo there and sort of heads off To that back fence way in the back so There's other parts up here that would have to be cut to any other questions up from the board Okay, so at this point could I see a show of hands of how many people here would like to speak on Or have questions of the tree issue one Is that it or two okay, would you like to come forward and Thank you, and just state your name and great I'm Henry Lappin. I'm the chair of the shade tree committee We voted in favor of preserving the trees particularly this tree Because of the significance. You know, these are public shade trees This is a tree that's owned by the town in the public right of way I Appreciate what the developers trying to do but There is a taking here. So This tree may die soon, but it could live for quite a long time. I talked to Alan about this in length We don't know of course, but it could live for decades You know it is healthy. It's got a nice canopy So that's why we voted in favor of trying to preserve the tree If there's anything that could be done to preserve it I think it'll be a big loss for the street and for the town to lose that tree That's all I want to say. Thank you. Yes, if you'd like to come up and just introduce yourself I am Charles McCarthy. I wrote the tree risk report for a mere and I somewhat agree with Alan That was the tree There is a defects all through the different Leaders of the tree if you could move the mic just a little closer. Is the light on yes. Yeah, it's a better. Yeah, sorry about that So besides the main trunk having having a hollow trunk and I know Alan that it resist a graft test on the trunk If you go up those large leaders, they all have cavities that are Pretty large defects making the tree very susceptible of failure Particularly in wet snow or ice storms and as the as far as the health of the tree You want to look at it in two different ways You can have a healthy tree in that we're getting foliage and growth every year Well, you can have a tree that is highly susceptible to failure Because of past storm damage, which are basically resulting into these cavities that we have throughout the tree So we can have a tree with green leaves But a tree that is highly susceptible to failure. I think at this stage The tree is highly susceptible to failure and That's about all I have to say about it. I guess Do you want to speak on the spruce why you're up here? The spruce yeah, and the report I wrote about the three spruce because it's kind of interesting where you had a dead spruce a standing butt log from a failed spruce and a stump from another spruce that had failed before and so the middle spruce that the remaining one had a Very tall tree that Went into two leaders. I want to say the leaders might have been 45 feet off the ground by memory Now if you could look at the two leaders how they originated was more than likely storm damage Many years ago, and then we had response wood which ended up with two co-dominant stems and I think those two co-dominant stems are highly likely to fail again and so in my opinion that would be a Probably tree could be taken down because of that, but if you were going through and install support cables a Support cable between the leaders between those two stems You still have the issue of the greatest change that would that affect the help of the tree, you know And I think it would so it's But that one there was kind of an interesting interesting three trees to look at you had You had two failures, and you had the remaining tree That's left with a with a leader that's a set full of bail with two leaders that are susceptible to fail right now, so I don't know if you had a question on that Thank you Yes Good afternoon, and my name is Amir make she I'm the owner and the developer for that site 133 143 South is this tree You ask who maintained those cable and who took care of these three It was me all these years that you know, I did take care of this and you can ask Burt your design group my dear friend Mike Lou that is here that in the very beginning That was my intention to save these trees and you know because you know, I wanted to and I told him that you know They have a good nice character and like to keep it and that's why we hired Charles to basically come and give us assessment and the assessment was that you know This is there's a serious issue and the and the seriousness of it is that right now It is vacant. It has been vacant for three years this and nobody Travel goes there, but once you have people going there Then you know, we are talking about the risk and then what is going to happen if you know one of these branches would fail another thing is that many years ago when the in the town decided to have a village business village center in town they decided to have this east side to be developed and I promised that I would do that and But the thing is that no matter what kind of development we are going to have as Alan rightfully said even if you would have two inch of the filling there Yeah, it's going to bond to kill these three no matter what regardless of what the project is regardless of what the development is and if you want to have a nice pros of we look into every possibility and There is only there is one way we can you know To save the trees that we have to put the Build a wall three feet wall and once we build the three feet wall Then the question is that you know if somebody's going to fall into the pet then we have to create to put a cage so we are really going to ruin the Just the atmosphere what I mean is not going to be inviting place to have a tree with a cage And then around that you know with the three feet You know if you really look it's already low, you know, and you know, and then having three feet of Wall and then the cage around it Just you know trying to look into it. It's really not something that you know, I do at my I do my best to Take care of the trees. In fact, you know, I'm Create I got another consultant to create, you know Rain garden, you know hardly as my other properties are and even in Amherst a ride, you know by the other expresses that you know Mr. Root is you know coming up with the way to do it But it is really something that you know it has to be appealing something that to be nice and also making sure that it Would be safety that the safety of the public is preserved. That is basically why I ask that, you know You you will allow the removal of these three. Thank you so much questions from the board So, oh yeah, Michael I'm curious the chairman of the of the Shade tree Commission Suggested that the Commission was opposed to the removal of these trees Can you tell me whether that was a unanimous vote on the part of the Commission or whether there was some Descension among the members of the Commission about this issue. I don't remember exactly. I think It was a smaller group, but we all agreed I think it was unanimous among the smaller group one person had to recruit themselves because they worked for Berkshire design and I think one person wasn't there, so there were only four of us at that time Follow up question and was that vote on voting for saving all the trees or did you vote on the individual trees? Um, I think we voted on saving all of them, but in the thing we wrote which I don't have with me, unfortunately We were focused mostly on the catalpa tree at this point do we have to make a motion and Make a decision Unless anyone has any more information they need or thoughts Do I hear a motion anyone want to make a motion? I know it's a hard thing I'd like to ask a procedural question if we make a motion then do we discuss it? We make a motion someone seconds it and then we have more discussion. Okay, then we vote on it I move to accept to Move that the planning board accept the recommendations of the tree warden and the removal and the compensation For all of the trees regrettably including the cutoff and close the Public hearing, okay, so are there any other questions or discussion before we vote? Maria did Michael yeah, I'm moved by the notion that this tree is public property and that our appointed commission in charge of such property is In favor of retaining it and of not allowing it to be taken down It's a duly a duly appointed body of the town and I think we need to give it weight On the other hand our tree warden who is also a duly elected or a duly appointed member of the town's Governing body Has the opposite opinion I Don't quite know how to how to come down on this. I I can understand. I I think I understand both points of view and I am fairly certain that this issue is driven by the Proposal to construct property behind the land on which this tree is located if Such a proposal were not In the offing There would be probably no issue So that could that makes an even greater conflict here it seems to me that we're being asked to provide development opportunities at the expense of An environmental asset of the town and I am uncomfortable with doing that Recognizing that the area in question is You're marked by the town for development and also Recognizing that Well, I that's a that's enough I think on that issue, so I'm not I I think I'm going to vote No on this motion because I believe We're really taking something away from the town that it it owns and it values and and it Could continue to value for a number of years, although there's as mr. Snow points out there is certainly no guarantee as to its longevity but I Think it Deserves a chance I think that's a very good point Michael and that we're also a duly appointed board to look at things from the perspective of through a planning lens and We have to look at the context and we have to look at the bigger good and you're right This is taking but this project is also giving back something very significant We're so desperate need of housing and diversity and densities and areas that we've earmarked as village centers And I think that the amenity of this project in This case if we look at it from the master planning perspective is something that's going to be very valuable for the town It's in a perfect location. It's at a bus stop It's going to promote more walking more liveliness and other areas of town so if we take a step back and look at the weight of the two trees that are in most contention and Then look at how this would impact a serious issue of that We've seen come to this board over and over and you know well of our need for housing I think that we need a way that in the perspective of the planning board So you're absolutely right everyone serving on boards are putting their opinions about what they're sort of focusing on and I think as planning board members we look at it in that sort of lens and so I kind of agree and disagree so Jack I just want to say that we heard from two experts and That that says a lot to me in terms of the right decision in terms of Preserving the trees or not. Mr. Snow I just want to comment that on both of those both of those comments and and I Understand I mean I don't take this decision lightly in in looking at a you know significant public asset It's you know, it's it's Presence in that you know on that property I mean most people have probably driven by that tree, you know a thousand times and barely even noticed it Because it's it's so far back from the public way But you know the minute it's gone. I'm sure everyone's going to if it's gone That people will notice that there's a void there that this something is missing and the one the one when I make these decisions daily and That you know, I'm an urban forester and I'm looking at you know the long Long goal and our goal is to maintain a you know a balanced tree canopy in town A healthy tree canopy in town with a diverse, you know specimen in age class, so It's difficult to to look at a tree that is as charismatic as this tree especially and Say that you know Maybe it's time for this tree to go so that we can start planting new trees And trees that will grow to become significant public shade trees There's a lot of room on this on this particular area to plant new trees And the best the best time to plant trees as always is you know 20 years ago, you know, we should you know We should have been planting trees That we can join now, so we will be planting trees For the next generation to enjoy at this spot So I have a few points just to make one of them is that the planting board is making its decision under the scenic roads act which is Chapter 40 section 15c and so that's our decision I'd like I'd be interested in the board talking about southeast Street as a scenic road and the impacts of removing a tree of Southeast Street, so I think that we should focus on that a bit and then Mr. Snow is talking about public shade trees or public trees on her chapter 87 and so his decision Since it's been there's been a letter written The select board or the mayor will have to make the final decision, but our decision is Separate and there's no other entity in our town that could contradict it And so there's a case on that But I really do think we need to focus on the impacts on the scenic road southeast Street Which I you know I live on so I don't know if that you know it helps there hurts my case But I think we should talk about that you know because it's a beautiful road. It's scenic Has amazing views. We've protected tons of land along it. It's a priority And people enjoy it and recreate on it and I wonder what's the impact of removing these trees on that if we could talk About that and just focus on our our statute and not to say don't talk about the importance of public shade trees But we're taught we have like sort of parallel streams here. So I'll say um I Have to sadly admit I probably drove by that three hundreds of times And I never noticed it until this project came up and I will say looking at it. It has a beautiful form I mean when you get close you see it has lots of problems, but Just the shape of it was really something special and I wish I had noticed it long long ago But as a planning board member and looking to the future and thinking about scenic roads and where this is That's why I You know have high hope and want to do due diligence on this will be a loss But this public way it looks to be greatly improved from what it has been probably ever in its existence and You know counting, you know proposed right now. There's like 12 at least 12 trees proposed to be put back With sitting areas and walking multi-use paths and so I You know if there's a loss of the trees I hope it's not the same and it'll take like you Alan said many years for these trees to grow and Really become special and beautiful, but I hope that goes into what trees we plant back and Not just go with no fence, but just the regular trees that are always around town that we don't always notice Where yeah I'm just looking at the town map and the zoning and the the sparse that we're talking about is VC and then to its west is all education and then to the east they're currently Colonial Village Colonial Village Apartments, so The scenic roads we've sort of given advice on have been sort of more rural and setting and more You know about stone walls and trees and those we definitely Carefully preserve and and look at the constant context and you know if someone needs a curb cut and removes one tree We do agonize over it and this is not quite that setting Southeastry is beautiful when you go further north and south, but as you get closer to this intersection I'm not sure the scenic part still holds, so Absolutely, we we we are always you know careful about Taking context in account and I think this is a case where the context is a commercial and more urban settings, so even more so, you know Thinking about scenic roads we and then we have to think does that really apply in this situation? I know a lot of people think it still does and if you look as How the zoning and how we've been talking about this area as far as Village Center? I just wonder if that is still holding in this particular context Michael One of the things that makes the very center of town right outside the doors of this building Wonderful is the enormous trees that are in the common and the north end of the common So I think it's not quite right to say that because the Southeast Street or the East Village area that we're talking about is Developing into more commercial area that Large-scale specimen trees are inappropriate. I think they're just as appropriate there as they are in the center on the common outside our doors Jack I was gonna say that I to I don't think appreciated the tree until it was presented to us because of the development The Arbor Vidie. I think shade it from view when you're on College Street, but I'm encouraged by the Landscape plan and the additional planting of trees were I think There'll be more Connection, you know with pedestrians with the trees that will be planted there then it's currently appreciated For that stretch of property Janet so I appreciate those Views because there is a lot to be said for that new kind of plat front area I was sort of wrestling with you know, it's like these trees are Have to go or if this if this project is approved because it had it, you know It it could you could have designed it to save those trees and not increase the height there and stuff like that So I sort of wrestle with this that the trees will die if we approve this project because the way it's designed And it could be designed in a different way to preserve the trees like more of a con like creating a common and things like that so I sort of you know see Michael's point that we have lots of beautiful old trees on our common We have commons all over in New England and apparently quite a few in Amherst and so You know if this project was designed in different way it could be designed to preserve the trees and create like a place For people to say it and so I kind of I have to say I'm sort of seesawing back and forth It seems to me a condition for the removal the trees would be approval of a of a project that requires the increase in The grading increase and things like that not just to say yeah You can take them out and the project changes or it doesn't go through David I Excuse me. I think I Feel confident saying that Any vote here is a is a vote for consideration of the proposal and the and the group the Vision for the property and the vision for the planning and the planning for the town. No one here is anti-tree right And it it seems to me that the purpose of the scenic by looks the scenic road law is to If a road is designated as scenic by a town Which these roads were done. So it's sometime in the early 70s of memory serves What the law calls for is an additional level of review that's offered right here right now what we're doing and And That's what that's what we're meeting Seems to me that for the planning board in weighing and balancing and weighing the various interests We have here for housing or commercial development of a village center for preserving the beauty of the landscape and the viability of its greenery and the long-term cycles of growth and decay that that In weighing that we're performing our functions and and that in my view given the You know the beauty of the tree, but it's It's it's state of structural of the lack of integrity of it having Having admired it for years, but also and I have but being frightened of climbing on it or sticking my hand in its many gaps That that in weighing those various interests that that it seems to me the proposal The proposed project wants to Further encourage the greening of the space as it evolves into the future And so I would vote just again. I would vote to support Be consistent with the tree wardens recommendations Michael I was struck by something that Janet said a minute ago and it Reminds me that this Tree removal issue is entirely driven by the development Existing behind it and if the development existing behind it were to be rethought in terms of Providing a backdrop for this this tree Probably there would be some reduction in the number of apartment units available, but That might be a better approach from a planning point of view not just from an aesthetic point of view of the tree, but from the point of view of developing a project which is both More attractive and Equally useful to the area in question I think that's absolutely right except that we've heard from a couple tree Experts that They may not be worthwhile in doing that, but there are definitely projects where we have had them work and redesign around Existing trees and I just think that this is not one of those cases Janet I agree that the age of the tree and its condition is a factor for me just in terms of you know how long is it gonna last and that that Looking at the tree and it is beautiful that really weighs on me about the age of the tree or just It's precarious looking condition Anyone else have any more comments or are we up for a motion Well ready. I'm sorry vote on the are we ready to vote on this motion sure That's what I'm asking if we voted to for the removal the trees It wouldn't happen unless the project was approved right or would we would that be a condition on our motion actually we make our Recommendation, mr. Snow has made his and then it'll be mr. Backelman who makes the final decision okay because that that okay that I know we should then it would become Conditional on the project being going forward Could we make the motion with that condition? I have to say just I've been sort of holding this back There's a there's a court case that says that the planning board is making a decision under the scenic roads act and Then either the select board or the mayor makes the decision Under the you know public tree public shade tree act and you need to prove from both You know they're not there's not one group that trumps the other and so that case was jeopardized today has it's a It's a superior court case So it's not like an appeals court case But it does support the language of the statutes because these they each of the statutes referred to each other and they know that They operate independently together, so I don't this is like a legal question I think for you know our town attorney, but I don't see I think we just make our decision and we have to approve it and then The town manager kind of acting as because of the mayor You know or a select board and the executive function makes a decision under the different act and so we could take that to Bards our council, but I don't I did some research on that just because I was reading a Long treatise on Len use along I think well, maybe it covers this and I did have a case on point and so you know, but I don't I think you know if we if the planning board approves it and then the Mr. Snow approves the removal then I think we're good or the town manager acts Chris I Think miss McGowan's right that both the planning board and the tree warden need to approve this in order for the tree to come Down, but even so even if the planning board and the tree warden do agree it still needs to go to the town manager because There has been a letter to there have been two letters of opposition issued or submitted against the taking down of the tree and that relates to the Statute that mr. Snow operates under. Thank you. So are we ready to take a vote? Okay, so With the motion that's on the table all that are in favor raise your hand say I know so I think Got a five one Okay, how about we take a um break a little Break Amherst media we still running or do you want to restart great? Great so I'm gonna restart the meeting it was good to have a little break after two and a half hours So we're gonna juggle a few things around here because there's no way that For what we have on the agenda. It will take us hours so What we're gonna do is we're gonna reopen SPR Southeast Street Court how the housing reopen it and we're gonna close it. We're gonna postpone it until September 18th They've agreed that that's okay, and we'll get them first off for me meet again on the 18th and then we will go back to Main Street and Then we'll go to Spring Street and hopefully be done at a reasonable hour. So Yes, excuse me. I made a mistake. You already read the preamble. Yeah, the last time around So you don't have to read the preamble again You just have to announce that you're reopening the public hearing for It's not reopening your recon you're continuing the public hearing for mr. McCheese project and you're going to immediately move to continue it to September 18th because of the lack of time this evening to reasonably consider all of these projects and I need someone to make a motion to move it to the 18th of September great I move to continue SPR 201907 and 201904 to September 18 Great all any discussion all in favor Unanimous we'll see you on the 18th. Thank you so much So now we'll go back to Okay, so Chris do we need to reopen it did we oh we just Suspend it to later. So this is the later I Think they do so I was going to go through the criteria And I'll just generally say the section and the number and if board members speak up if you have Should I read the end I don't read this Boy All right, so I'll read it and just keep reading them But if you see something that you want to speak about like then just Raise your hand or say Hey, and then so with the conditions, I'm also looking to Them for agreement, right? Is this like if you have to have anything? Yeah Yeah, one that we would want added to so when we get there Okay, and did we have any do you have any other suggested conditions besides what's on this two-sided paper? Okay all right, so To go through the site plan review criteria We start with eleven point two four review of criteria and design guidelines Under the general eleven point two four zero general Zero zero is conformance with all appropriate provisions of the zoning by-law and goals of the master plan Zero one protection of town amenities and abutting properties through minimizing detrimental or offensive actions Zero two protection of abutting properties from detrimental site characteristics Resulting from the proposed use including but not limited to air and water pollution flood noise odor dust vibration Lights or visually offensive structures or site features Zero three provision of adequate recreational facilities open space and amenities Moving on to eleven point two four one environmental One zero protection of unique or important natural historic or scenic features So what we normally do here is if we find that one is not appropriate or not applicable, yes, then you say that if you see that one is not applicable, so Just wanted to remind you of that say that again. What I'm if one of these Criteria is not applicable to this project. You say not applicable I'm writing down that you know, so ten was not I Don't know well. It's a scenic. It was this No, you're right. You're protecting the scenic house. You're protecting the historic house So right because it had the historic commission and I mean, I know it's not a jurisdiction, but I can jump in I think actually that whole part of the Main Street is really beautiful And so I think you've done a really nice job of integrating With the structure the way you've kind of masked it and put it back it it when you drive up Main Street It's just filled with these beautiful old not all Victorian houses, but clabbered houses and it looks like it fits And so I think that is an important feature in our town It's just there's just a lot of beauty on our on our roads in our town. May I say one more thing? Yes So what normally happens here is you go through this list and if you think of anything you say it And then when I'm drafting the decision I fill in you know things that you've said during the public hearing that support these things that you're making these findings That you're making and then when you get the decision to read before you sign it you can tell me You don't agree or you agree That's the way we usually do it. Okay, is that a right? Yes, and some of these are in here What I can't oh, I won't always remember if wear these fit on You mean the conditions? Yeah, so some sometimes what I do is when I'm drafting the decision I'll say as this is discussed and or as imposed by condition X This condition is met, you know, so there's reference back and forth. I just wanted to remind us all of that there's a little bit of What license that I take poetic license in drafting the decision so Thank you 11.2 for 1-1 Adequacy of proposed methods of refuge disposal 1-2 Ability of proposed sewage Disposal and water supply systems within an adjacent to the site to serve the proposed use 13 adequacy of the proposed drainage systems within and Adjacent to the site to handle the increased runoff resulting from the development 14 Provision of adequate landscaping including the screening of adjacent residential uses provision of street trees Landscape islands in the parking lot and a landscape buffer along the street frontage When a non residential use adjoins a residential district an uninterrupted vegetated buffer shall to the extent feasible be established and maintained between buildings associated with uses under this section and The nearest residential property boundary When natural and undisturbed vegetation already exists on site prior to site preparation and clearance The majority of that vegetation may be retained and included as part of the buffer along with the addition of such new planting selective removals and Other management of site plantings as are determined to be necessary to maintaining an effective year-round visual screen 15 adequacy of the soil erosion plan and any plan for protection of the steep slopes both during and after construction 16 protection of adjacent properties by minimizing the intrusion of air and water pollution flood noise odor dust and vibration through appropriate site and Structure design and the use of appropriate design and materials for containment ventilation filtering screening soundproofing Sound dampening and other similar solutions 17 protection of adjacent properties by minimizing the intrusion of lighting including parking lot and building exterior lighting through the use of Cut-off luminary light shields lowered height of light poles screening and other similar solutions Except for architectural and interior lit signs all exterior site lighting shall be Downcast and shall be directed or shielded to eliminate light trespassing onto any street or a budding property to eliminate direct or reflected glare Perceivable to perceptible to persons on any street or a budding property and sufficient to review To reduce a viewer's ability to see All site lighting including architectural sign and parking lot lighting shall be kept Extinguished outside of those business hours established under the approved site management plan Except for light determined to be necessary for site security and the safety of employees and visitors 18 protection of flood hazard as stated in section 3.22 considering such factor. Yes, it's not applicable. What? It's not a good 18 is not you're right. It's not a flood. Great. Sorry. I was going into the transit Just like how fast can I read? night protection of wetlets so 19 can be skipped Historic regent it's not in a historic Okay, you may use the Criteria of the design review board, but you did not choose to do so tonight so you can say That you're not that it's fine or that you're not that's fine. Okay So 21 the development shall be reasonably consistent with respect to setbacks placement of parking landscaping and entrances and exits with surrounding buildings and development 22 building site shall avoid to the extent feasible the impact on steep slopes floodplains scenic views grade changes and wetlands 23 if there is More than one building on the site the building shall Relate harm harmoniously to each other in architectural style site location and building exits and entrances 24 screening shall be provided for storage units loading docks dumpsters rooftop equipment utility building and similar features Traffic and parking number 30 the site shall be designed to provide for the convenience and safety of Verhicular and pedestrian movement both within the site and in Relation to adjoining ways and properties 31 the location a number of curb cuts shall be to Minimize okay shall be such to minimize turning Movements and hazardous exits and entrances 32 The location and design of parking spaces bicycle racks drive aisles loading areas and sidewalks shall be provided in a safe and convenient manner 33 provision for access to adjoining properties shall be provided as appropriate Where possible driveways located in commercial and business district shall be located opposite each other 35 joint access driveway shall between adjoining properties shall be dis encouraged. We yeah, not applicable 36 a traffic impact report shall be required unless wavered under 11 section 11.2 222 Information required as part of this report shall be set forth in the rules and regulations of the planning Board 37 when a traffic import Did we still have Yeah, they've provided a traffic impact statement, but it's not the same as a traffic impact I agree, so I think you're gonna waive the traffic impact report and accept the statement great. All right So now we'll go through the Possible conditions So Are we to assume that we will include it and if someone one of the members doesn't want to include it Then they should speak up or if they want it Wanted a tweak to adjust it. Okay? And we all have found that good And I will be watching for Mr.. Ede just call out if you want to The same thing to you if you want to comment or maybe just two more findings or like one is the so the waiver for the traffic impact Like you mentioned the waiver for parking under 7.9. Yes, and then also Small car parking so 7.104 Planning board may allow upon application small park small car parking spaces be substituted for up to 50% of the standard parking spaces We've got 14 compact spaces proposed 14 of the 32 32. Yes. Thank you So that's less than less than 15 right For up to 50% okay of the standard so we should we usually include that in a separate list We don't usually include that as one of the conditions. Yeah, okay It's a finding prior to as I was thinking what you just went through your planning board findings. I was thinking of the other two Findings the waiver and then this as a finding and then to the conditions I'm not trying to muddy the waters at all findings under those that's section of the right. Yes, but the two waivers of the traffic and Parking Yes, do do we does the planning board impose as a condition? I know there's two handicap spaces could we impose that as a Condition or is that normally done? You approve the plan as it's presented to you and that plan would include the two spaces Okay, so under general number one development champ shall be built Substantially in accordance with the plan submitted to the planning board and approved on Whenever if you approve it tonight, it would be tonight. Okay, if you Yes, so I have a question. Yes It's about the relationship between the site visit and the plans as submitted to the planning board at the site visit Mr. Roblowski Indicated that his intention that might not be exactly the right word or desire Somewhere to both have solar panels and to have to at least two of the spots have Electrical be electrical charging station in the parking spot. Is that something that is? Do is that considered now a part of the plan submitted to the planning board or is that a different condition that we can ask to ask to To make a part of the approval Crest it's not officially part of the submission. It was a Discussion that you had with mr. Roblesky. So if you want it as a condition you need to state it as a condition when we get to There's someone here later Yeah, no not about that, but we can add it in and maybe just to put a finer point on that I think mr. Roblesky can commit to the electric vehicle charging station I think the solar panel if you want to couch it as he will attempt to do it But I don't think he can make the representation that it will have it will happen But one charging station. Well, it's one station. Yeah, two spots So you've got that Chris that would be the that's a condition that condition and then it would be nice, right? Thank you Condition that he will attempt to install solar panels if it's Appropriate appropriate feasible. Yeah So number two development shall be managed Substantially in accordance with the management plan submitted to the planning board and I have so much paper hair Did we get a management plan? Okay? Thank you. I know this is an experienced landlord, so Number three upon a change of ownership or if the property is no longer managed by John Roblesky, do I say that right? Roblesky Those easy names The new owner and or manager shall submit a new management plan to the planning board at the Public meeting for its review and approval the purpose of the meeting shall be for the board to determine whether the conditions of the Permit are being complied with and whether any modification to the site plan review approval or management plan is required For a sign plan shall be submitted to the planning board for its review and approval at a public meeting Question so they're improving of the light of the sign and all that does that have to come back to us So they're good to just go do that because it's existing. Yeah, I think they're good for the main sign But if they add any other signs like if there's the sign for mr. Crossman's office or any other signs like that they would have to include that in a sign plan So we might want to add That the sign plan comes back prior to installation of science Prior to installation. Yeah Okay, number five all exterior lighting shall be dark sky compliant exterior lighting shall be downcast shielded and shall not shine Onto adjacent properties or streets Six this property shall be registered and permitted in accordance with the Amherst Residential rental property bylaw loss or suspension of a rental permit shall Constitute in a violation of this condition number seven changes to the project and our substantial changes to any approved site plans or to the exterior of the building shall be submitted to the Planning board for its review and approval prior to the work taking place the purpose of the substantial The purpose of the submittal shall be for the planning board to approve that it change and or to determine whether the changes are Milmois or Significant enough to require modification of the special permit or the site plan review approval So I had so I lied maybe have two things could we add that maybe field changes may be approved by the building commissioner Feel can feel changes You know it can be approved construction something like that Yeah, so we don't have to stop construction come back before the board make the termination It's the minimists or not and then go forward so to give the building commissioner some Discretion just because your docket is very full And then it's in his court So he makes it so that it would be the building commissioner makes a determination whether it's beyond But you use the word insubstantial Okay insubstantial insubstantial may be approved by the building commissioner. Sure. Is that good? Okay? Number nine landscaping shall be installed in accordance with the landscape plan and once installed shall be continually maintained all Disturbed areas shall be loomed and seated unless otherwise specified Ten one hard copy and one digital copy of the final revised plan shall be submitted to the planning department 11 the office space shall be available to be rented by a member of the public and shall not be used solely as the management office for the proposed mixed-use building 12 shrubs and vegetation that block the site distance on the east side of the driveway entrance shall be cleared Construction number 12 prior to the issuance of any building permit a pre-construction meeting shall be scheduled with the applicant The applicants contractor the town engineer the building commissioner the superintendent of public works Planning staff and the fire chief and any other staff personnel that may have a role in the construction of the project 13 a written construction fire management plan shall be submitted to the fire chief and the building commissioner prior to the issuance of Building permit of a building permit 14 a construction logistics plan shall be Provided at the pre-construction meeting and shall cover the following items a Construction timeline and expected completion dates for each phase b location of parking for contractors See location of on-site and off-site staging such as for construction vehicles including cement trucks D location of fencing around the construction site e details and locations of directional marketing and job signs related to construction F emergency contact information such as name and cell phone numbers of developer and contractor g Information about construction signs including advertising signs for the contractor developer and architect H the company affiliation name address and business Telephone number of the construction superintendent who shall have the overall responsibility for construction activities on the project site I Proof that dig safe has been notified at least 72 hours prior to the start of any site work J Any other relevant information that they may request 15? The construction logistics plan shall be subject to the following conditions a construction activity shall occur only between 7 a.m.. And 7 p.m.. Monday to Saturday Sorry, could I just add and and Sundays if allowed by the police chief? Is that all right Chris? Is that allowed? I think we have to go through the it is allowed if it's allowed by the police chief that you have done that in the Past but you need to make the choice whether you want to do that this time Just when you get into interior work, it's it's all interior and there's no noise outside So you don't like to go plumbing that type of thing construction timeline I mean, I don't know when exactly this will start, but I can tell you from a couple of projects that are ongoing right now There's never enough time So I think to give John the flexibility of being able to construct on Sundays And if it becomes an issue then I know that you know Robin chief living stone will step in and say you can't do it Anymore if they're getting complaints I think that I would like to limit that to Interior construction then because I think it'd be super annoying to have people drilling and doing all that thing on a Sunday Especially because you're in a am yeah That's fine. Yeah, that's fine. You got that Chris. Okay great B Parking for contractors shall be restricted to the project site and then also so the VFW right unless maybe unless written consent is provided to the planning department Unless written consent of an adjacent landowner is provided to the planning department Is that good Chris? Yeah See there shall be no parking or idling of construction trucks and equipment in any Public right of way D any blasting or hammering of rock and morterio will be To be noticed to town officials and about as 24 hours in advance and completed between 9 a.m And 3 p.m 16 as part of the building permit application the applicant shall Provide the building commissioner the name address and business phone number of the project manager and on-site supervisor Who shall be responsible for all activities on the project site 17? There shall be no exterior construction activity including fueling of vehicles on the project site before 7 a.m. Or after 7 p.m. Monday through Saturday There shall be no construction on the project site of the following legal holidays New Year's Day Memorial Day July 4th Labor Day Thanksgiving and Christmas the applicant agrees that the hours of operation shall be enforceable by the Amherst Police Department or and or inspection services 18 the project site shall be fenced during construction 19 appropriate measures shall be take place to control dust dirt debris and construction materials On-site water for the dust control shall be trucked in from off-site If necessary Yeah, I get that 20 if necessary add that if If I wasn't sure this was a condition that we used on beacon But beacon was going to have its own well, and so it might have been part of that whole Thing so I guess normally you do truck water in yeah, yeah, you hire a water truck So you want to let this stand as it as it is I just know with an existing building if there's water already provided and he has it there And he can hose down to keep the dust down that I you know not to bring in one of those big trucks It's just but if not a big deal if it's part of it If the water shut off for the whole property for some reason and he has to truck it in then I think you've got it both ways I mean the intent here is to obviously keep the dust down so that it's not bothering any of the neighbors Right. I think you can use the water on site. It's not saying you can't right as long as it right But but if you don't have water on site, then you have to shell right because it says shall be trucking from off-site So I'm just saying comma if necessary Okay Then we'll bring it off site comma if necessary. Why would we tell them how? They understand where they're gonna get water I don't see why we have to tell them to get truck And there's actually contract like they just come with the water truck and this is what they yeah, I think it's a standard business 20 prior to and during construction physical barrier shall be installed to provide tree protection along the limit of the clearing line Erosion controls and tree protection measures shall be continuously maintained throughout the course of the construction 21 all catch basins shall be protected from soil and debris contamination during construction and shall be cleaned at the end Of construction 22 no stumps demolition material or construction debris shall be buried or disposed of at the project site 23 the town engineer and the building commissioner shall inspect the construction of the entry driveway and all on-site paved areas for conformance to town standards 24 the applicant shall Provide as built plans that show the building locations grades access ways Parking areas sidewalks and walkways curbing stormwater management Facilities lighting and utilities to the building commissioner town engineer and to be placed with the with the site plan review decision in the planning department 25 the final certificate of Couponsy shall not be issued until a Top the final top coat of paving for all driveways and access areas walkways and berms has been completed B landscaping as shown on the plan of record has been installed and C as built plans have been submitted to the Building commissioner and the town engineer by all design professionals for the site and the building construction and have been approved by the Building commissioner and town engineer Is there anything we forgot? Does anyone have any questions In the parking section Would be in the general section And it would say That the site shall have two one electrical vehicle charging stations with two Connection points and there was another one about and the Developers shall attempt to install solar panels if feasible Insubstantial field changes can be approved by the building commissioner and then interior construction may be allowed on Sunday if allowed by the police chief and The parking for contractors shall be restricted to the project site unless written consent is provided to the planning department The additional conditions are we ready to make a motion on this? So I think it's a multi-layered motion Number one you have to close the public hearing number two you have to Approve the project with the conditions and waivers as listed Number the site plan review approval number three you have to approve the special permit to expunge all previous special permits And we haven't really talked a lot about that But if you want to talk about it now would be a good time so I Think it would be under 10.33 the building commissioner's position is that because there's an existing special permit associated with this site? And it hearkens back to a time when the uses on this site were allowed by special permit pre-zone change However, even though post zone change they're allowed by site plan review, which is the process We've just gone through the building commissioner's position is that we still have to extinguish the existing special permit and so I think what we have to do to do that is Modify the special permit to extinguish The existing special permit somewhat circular, but that's where we end up So I would suggest instead of going through all 10.38 you probably want to do 10.33, which is the modification piece and it's Provided that the action is consistent with the purposes and intent of this by-law and a public hearing has been held So you've had the public hearing and we would suggest that it is In concert with the purpose and intent of the by-law specifically because the by-law has changed to now allow it Not by special permit, but by site plan review and you are in fact allowing it by site plan review I want to take two votes one on the site plan review and one on the special Should we do the special permit second or first? That's just the getting rid of it, right? Probably Christine I think you raised the issue about if are there any things in the special permits that way we might want to add to the site the site plan review permit Did you have any more thoughts on that? I think that would take a lot of research because I haven't read all of those special permits and the building commissioner is comfortable with expunging them and I read them just because I Can't stop reading paper, but it They were mostly about like allowing a hair salon and or a beauty Esthetician and you know keeping them as professional offices. I think that was it I think that was because this used to be in the RG zoning district So that was a residential zoning district and they wanted to have huses on the site that were very restricted And now it's in the bn which includes a lot of different uses that are allowed In business neighborhood and they're all listed in the use table. So I don't think that we need to get into that So why don't we do a motion to to is it dissolve or remove the special permits? Extinguish, thank you. That's the one extinguish. I move we extinguish the existing special permit someone second Any discussion on this? None. Okay all in favor say and it's unanimous. Thank you No, we only just did that now. I'm gonna do that, but I was gonna ask one more time. Is there any public comment to this? Do you we're good? No problem. Okay, so Then we can close the public hearing, but that can get tagged on to the next motion, right? Okay, so David if you want to do your thing again move to close the hearing to approve the conditions as And waiver discuss. Yeah, the findings and the waivers presented to the And close the public hearing Okay, good you did that first and approve this I plan review and approve this I put yes And that too and that too I plan review and I hear a second any further discussion Okay, all in favor say I And that is unanimous. Thank you so much Really, thank you. Thank you for being so flexible great job. I Know it was Thank you for waiting You're really Yeah, I know just raise hands. All right, I'll do that. I just always think I can't I can't see I can only hear but yeah You're right Yeah, that is a luxury Okay, so if I can find my agenda So miss McGowan was asking about her status in this since she wasn't here when this case was first heard She is now a member of the planning board so she may approve Submittals related to conditions as part of the planning board Miss McGowan was asking So we're gonna move down the agenda to Section 7 old business SPR 2018-16 and SPP 2018-04 Acapulago investments LCC 26 Spring Street Welcome, thank you. If you could both introduce yourselves Kyle Wilson from archipelago Dave Williams archipelago So I'm reading what we have here Chris do you want to Give a summary of Their return So the reason that mr. Wilson and mr. Williams are returning is that they are eager to get a building permit from the building commissioner and the three conditions that they need to satisfy from the site plan review That they need to satisfy prior to getting their building permit or these three So they needed to submit detailed plans and information about site improvements. It turns out they did show you the detailed plans and site improvements at the August 1st meeting of last year of 2018 and I believe that miss field Sadler has provided you with copies of those plans It just turned out that you never actually received copies of the plans mr. Williams brought them to the meeting But we never actually received hard copies and we didn't receive Electronic copies either but now we have received them And so I think it would be good if you went through the plan with mr. Wilson and he described What all the materials were and then the condition number 12 was for a complete lighting plan a photometric plan and details And I understand that mr. Wilson has a plan with him I hope he does and condition number 14 was to show the new location of the street light that is to be Relocated and I understand from talking to mr. Wilson that he's not proposing to relocate the street light He is just proposing to remove it because that's the lighting from the building will be adequate to Like areas so perhaps he can explain exactly what materials he has here Thank You Chris So you have some Conditions to talk about yes, thank you and Chris. I plug in right here for the flash drive right into this Pull this one out the town of Emerson and you all have hard copies of the the plans from 2018 yep 730 18 okay, and I have a hard copy and I'll bring it up on the screen. We have existing conditions For pro site plan and the grading details. Let me try to figure out how to get this I might need a little tech help on how to get into the flash drive on this. Oh gosh Yeah, you from the other people it dropped out Check you today Go over here to the way There it is Thank you, so I'll pull up the plans that were submitted these are the plans that the hard copy that you have that were submitted last year and the hard copy that I just gave you are Is right here and so when we met last year one of the questions was Public improvements in the street and whether we were going to have street trees out front or whether we were going to have parking out front and What we were planning to do with the power lines that were there so we have spent the last Six months working with ever source and have come to an agreement that they are going to bury the power lines along Spring Street Which has moved more quickly than we had imagined which is very positive in doing so then As you'll see here these the little islands that that are remnants from The project that the town and Amherst College started about ten years ago will go away and these poles Across the front will be dropped And I have another image that may help so Oh, yeah, that's good. Can you zoom in? So there are three poles adjacent to the site that will come down and there's a fourth adjacent to grace church That's right here that will come down These three poles a b and c are In the street as you can see here so Before the crash of 08 town and Amherst College worked to regrade all of Spring Street and improve the the sidewalk and The intent was to bury all of the utilities So the town put all of the conduit underground There are boxes which you can see here for power cable and telephone that were installed and And once the crash hit and the Lord Jeff project was put on hold Those plans were kind of stopped as they as they were at the time and the poles were left and a Somewhat of an accommodation was made to keep them out into the street and so when we began the project the intent was to try to use the new development to be a catalyst to help finish that project and and That's what we've been able to do So as that relates to what we're talking about today is one of the items that you know this Condition three was related to that previous conversation about parking or street trees out front Are we going to have spaces? Are we going to have? drop-off and a lot of that was obviously dependent upon whether or not they were going to be poles in that street or not because those obviously guide the Parking layout which is inherently inefficient because the parking was not laid out and or the poles were not laid out on 20 foot increments so what we're showing here is is is the is to satisfy Three and a portion of 12 and 14 so for condition three what we've shown is On the top is of this page, which I'll go to now so excuse me, it might be helpful for miss McGowan if Mr. Wilson were to kind of give a summary of the whole project because she's coming in not knowing anything about the project at all And I think your page two of six, which is the second page of your little group of plans here Shows the plan as a whole so maybe if mr. Wilson started there and described sure this building Then he could put the materials in context So this is page two that you're referencing. Yeah, so this is the new development This we have there is 10 feet of grade change So the northwest corner of the site is 10 feet higher than the southeast corner of the site so the building has done The intent the design of the building is to accommodate that and try to make a exterior space on the southwest corner that is commercial and In the southeast corner is the lobby entrance to building. So there are actually three different slab heights for the building There's the lobby there's the commercial space and then there's Which includes some of the back of house trash electrical fire and then there is the residential floor So those all step up to try to accommodate this grade that That varies over 10 feet across the site so we have Units on the ground floor residential units on the ground floor and then three floors of residential units above So it is a four-story building That sits on this site to the Southwest is a ramp an accessible ramp that brings folks up to Entrance to the commercial it also services the side of the building since there is no back this is the side so this is trash and electrical as I mentioned a lot of the connections and That is approximately three feet higher than the lobby which is here there are also steps a more direct route to another entrance to the commercial space and The lobby is directly at the grade of the sidewalk so the When the project to regrade Spring Street was completed the street sidewalk Was pitched it was dropped. It was lowered It was kept high up here for Grace Church. There's a handicap access ramp that needed to be preserved but and it drops down and right here is if I go back to This is almost exactly where the existing Drive-Ile to the parking lot is so all of those curb cuts The two the two cuts this one this one entrance and the two curb cuts are almost exactly where the proposed drop-off area and lowered curb will be for access to the building so As you'll see here That has not changed since last year We've been able to refine it with all the work that we've done in the intervening time and been able to provide all of the All of the pitches all of the spot grades all of the exact dimensions for The improvements related to that handicap drop-off So as you'll see here at this this side of the site. It's at two ninety point nine At this point and down here. It is at two eighty eight point eight eight so the all of the material is Well, let me stick with the grades first So this is matching the existing sidewalk obviously and as that continues There is a pedestrian ramp which will be more gracious than the one that's currently there a bit longer and have a five point two percent slope And then it's roughly flat here. There's a bit of a pitch And within the two percent max cross-grade That is allowed per ADA and AAB And then there's a pedestrian ramp that ramps back up which is about the same size as the existing and Connects back up to the sidewalk which continues to match existing grade here so We will be Keeping with all the town of Amherst Standards for the sidewalk as you'll see here that sidewalk is the has the paper On this side has the you know the cross Pattern in the concrete and the the brick colored pavers on on on the other side as well, so we'll be matching that This shows the the spot grades for The stairs and this shows the spot grade and the ramping for The ramp up to the commercial space the ramp here is Gracious enough where there is no railing. There is one railing that is here as required by code adjacent to the stairs and This is the entrance to the lobby What you'll see I think it's probably more clear on the lower portion, so I'll scroll down This this drawing is keyed, so it calls out each of the materials It calls out where they are This is and it also calls out For condition 14 the existing light pole which is shown here Which will be removed that light pole is currently right here and Provides some lighting to this the the parking area as it currently stands the The parking layout as such we have With the word this will come out with the removal of the power lines This will come out with the removal of the power lines and then the ability to restripe is there So the standard 20 foot parking spaces will be able to keep this one We'll be able to add one here. I'm sorry, and then we'll be able to keep these Make them a bit tighter, and then there is an opportunity based on How the town decides to strike the rest of this to potentially Keep those existing spaces or maybe pick one up if with the removal of this pole There's some additional length for an additional parking space This is per the approved plan, so we have the granite curbing that is Shown in front of Grace Church here, which is which was installed as part of the Regrating of Spring Street when they drop dropped it As well as well as the the stairs that were installed in front of the Jones property and the stairs that were installed here at Grace Church so We will be that that granite is going to be the same granite that we're using for the the number 12, which is the monolithic stone wall and The same type of grant that's used for the cladding The stone cladding on the face of this wall and the face of the building which was shown in the approved rendering So none of that has changed We have Granite paving as well that will occupy everything on the property north of the sidewalk That is shown on this plan here So that also has not changed again, this is really a Clarification and a bit more detail with the more information we have On what the front of the the building as it addresses the sidewalk will look like If there are any questions on this I could go into I could answer those before I got into the lighting plan Yes What is the depth of the landscape because it's a little different on the zoomed out plan than from the zoomed in plan The depth of what this? Yeah, it looks like it aligns with the stair like the full depth of the stair and the Site plan, but then here it shows it's a little narrower Yes, so that was a result of code requirement to allow for Access and turnaround in this location. So that line had to be reduced to meet building code The landscape plan It didn't impact the landscape sufficiently we had shown Service berry in that paper so in that area, so it's the same landscape playing just a slightly reduced Section there. Can you retrace My memory is sake the handicapped access route from the curb to the apartment building sure the apartments So this is that grade This lobby is a lobby that directly access is the elevator in the building Those steps just go To the up to the commercial space. So this is the entrance the granite the granite paving confuse me. Yeah, sorry And the center staircase only requires one railing The center staircase is is a second means of access to that commercial space could be satisfied completely with this ramp Okay, so that's why you have because of the sky Look at me and this is also the egress path for Building so that second stair that egress is the upper floors of the residential comes out and drops To the street here, that's very glad that the bump odds are being removed and the street lights So is there any other replacement light? I'll show you the exterior lighting. So we go from one street light to Lighting that that highlights the egress and then lighting around the perimeter and this lobby will be This lobby is a part of our egress path in the building as any Multifamily building will have and so that building has a certain foot candle that needs to be maintained 24-7 In in that space so that in the event of emergency egress from this stair or egress from the elevator is lit Chris I just have a question about the grading. I noticed that one of the ramps leading down to the drop-off area is five point two percent so How how is that going to be allowed without a handrail? It's part of the sidewalk, but it's probably something that's created new, right? 5.2 percent is allowed and in Inside walks with a lot. Yeah, I believe the threshold is 8% Do you just have a picture of the project some I'm looking at these lines, but what does this look like in? I don't These were in a picture pictorial way. I don't know if I put these on the flash drive. Hold on Chris might have it there Oh, and this is Actually, this is helpful This is a picture of the granite that was installed when the town redid this the sidewalk and dropped it So that this granite and this stair to Grace Church were required because the sidewalk was previously open about this height And so we're gonna take that same materiality into the into the site work for the building It's a Salt and pepper granite that's used for all the curbing all around Where does that curbing go? Does the town take it back or no that all stays? That's all that's on Grace Church property Oh, it is that is but it doesn't it run all the way. Nope. It stops right there. It doesn't so then there's a stair and then there's the That is Here Yeah, so this is this had this had to stay high Because this was when they dropped the sidewalk This is the handicap access into grace and so this pitches down down down and then it's flat for a portion Then it pitches down again and when it pitches down again is where you have that granite Again that you walk by things all the time and you don't notice So did you see to your question those are the renderings that On the project is the sidewalk just all concrete. Nope. It has the it has the brick paver on either side of it and then it has the cross Patterning in the middle Chris. Isn't that going to be changed? Please Yeah So it's being changed in other parts of town. Yeah here Mr. Wilson and Mr. Williams are replacing a piece just a piece of sidewalk in front of their property And all the sidewalk to the west of it and all the sidewalk to the east of it is already this Cross-hatched pattern with the brick edge. So they really need to keep in Conformance with that elsewhere in town. We are changing the pattern. It just doesn't have long good longevity But if it's to I didn't realize it was to the east too And I've seen most of the failing when it's perpendicular to the path of travel and this is parallel so fingers crossed Any other questions So for the lighting plan We have cut sheets Here's the exterior lighting Well, there's there are four different exterior fixtures e1 which is a downlight in the Canopies Which I'll show you in a quick minute here e2, which is a downlight in the walls exterior walls e3 which is Another downlight that is in one of the monolithic walls right when you come up to the commercial and e4 which is Only in the very back of the building on the north side, so The lighting plan here Shows those fixtures, so you have e1 only here in the canopy above the entry here in the canopy above the Commercial entrance and here in the canopy above the other commercial entrance. So that is This fixture that'll be installed in the canopy. It's flush mounted down with LED e2 is around the perimeter, so this this wall is a is a site wall that is The grade is higher on this side than it is this side to make all the egress work so that's all stay the same this e2 fixture is mounted in the wall and provides a Low, but required foot candle for egress light around that perimeter all facing on to the site And that is the e2 fixture here Yes, what height on the wall Well, the it's good question the wall changes because it's it's managing the grade as this pitches down and this is the highest part of the site and that is I believe it is 24 inches above grade trying to keep that as as uniform as we can without pitching So it's quite low. It's really to to to light the path for egress E3 is Just here and here so these two walls Again as per the approved plans are a large monolithic granite wall that will Resemble the wall that the town installed along grace and that fixture is also down lit a little bit different because it's more of a ribbon and So you can see it here that ribbon projects underneath benches that are installed along This wall and this wall again in keeping with the approved plans Sure So you can see the face of this is Flesh with the wall and then this is recessed into the wall And then it's a very simple black that is tapered back to allow that light to shine down onto the onto the walkway The e3 fixture is surface mounted, but it's an eighth of an inch thick It's a it's a ribbon LED ribbon that gets mounted underneath a bench And it lights the on the underside of the bench and that's the ballast And then e4 is just back here there's one Surface mounted light that'll be on the exterior wall of the building Scroll up here. There's one e4 that's here and that e4 fixture is this Which is down light down lit against the back of the building and picked so that it matches the cladding at that part of the building and Then as part of this plan we put together two photometric plans. So This plan highlights each of those fixtures Let me see And Then this is we've done two photometric plans because this We've done one that shows how the the foot candles for the egress And that is reflected in the requirements for the code, which is very small but the code requirements that we have for site egress and the lobby entry are satisfied by Effectively the lighting around this this site wall And then in meeting with the planning staff Asked us to take it to zero to go beyond that to show how the foot candles are Impacted beyond that so beyond where the egress is shown and at the patios and At that space out in front of the commercial area. So you can see In this plan there is no light impact anywhere here except around this periphery the entry to the building and it goes to zero in short order right along the property line So there's it's a it's a very low light impact approach to providing What's required for egress around the exterior of the site and have any questions Chris? Wonder if mr. Wilson would send me those plans the electronic means. Yes, I did Yeah Could you zoom in on the front entrance? It's yeah in this plan at grade right? Yeah, I just want to see what the numbers were we it's hard to see There'll be less than the street light and Where is the street light the street light would have been here which is gone So there's no other street lights. So basically the sidewalks are dark No, there's a street light here that one stays. There's a street light. Yeah, we're not doing anything We're only there's street lights on adjacent properties We're just the one that landed in the middle of this property when that those street lights were a part of the This I weren't any on the poles No bump outs. No, that's part of what they did do is these street lights were a part of this improvement This one was placed in the middle of property. There was one place in the right of way and then one placed here On the Jones property, that's what threw me off because they put one on the property. So, okay Can you go back to the light? Just Curiosity, what are the kelvins for like are you going for a white medium? It's a good question. We keep this the specification calls for 3,000 or lower. So a warm light very warm. Okay, we try to shoot for 2700 in the building Exterior is about 3,000. Great Any questions Chris? Do you have any questions? Are we forgetting anything? We're going on four hours here, so We're slowing down It looks to me like they've met the condition number three and number 12 Yes, number 14 sort of goes away because they're not Relocating the light Yeah, so condition three is you think Matt that was the detail plans and so We have to vote to approve this is it an addition or just that they've met the conditions right number three and number 12 Okay, so did anyone catch that is anyone brain still functioning at this point where they can articulate a motion that says that This has met the conditions that were Previously laid out on their parents. Yes. Have all the other conditions been met? We still have to go to town council In our conditions it was called It was a lot of work, but we still have to go to town council and we still have similar to the last On the last group we still have to meet with Rob and chief Livingstone and chief Nelson to finalize some plans that are Separate then plans that need to come back for the planning board So this is but so all conditions are met for planning board all conditions relative to the planning board All conditions are met relative to getting a building permit So I'm not sure if they have to come back to you later on I Didn't read the conditions With that in mind, but these are the conditions they had to meet in order to get their building So we need a motion that says that they have met the conditions laid out for Them to obtain their building permit. I Think it would be direct Chris three and Refer to missions three twelve and fourteen that they've met three conditions three twelve and fourteen. Yes That would be good That way we don't get credit for meeting when we haven't met yet If you want to it's on the agenda here if you want to look Move to approve the project presented by our compelling investments that conditions three twelve and fourteen have been Submitted and approved the submittals have been submitted We're gonna improve it Any discussion All in favor raise your hands Okay, no zero and abstain So it's five no, did you you all said yes, right? Yeah. Yeah, so it's five yes zero no and one abstain I'm like now. I'm seeing I'm like I thought I saw all the hands go up. All right. Thank you. Thank you And thank you for your patience. It was a long night. Thank you We got to skip the first two hours Unfortunately, we're getting used to it, too Okay, so Granite samples, do I want to see what sample they have granite samples in the back. Are you interested in seeing well? I Tempting but no, we can go see it next to Grace Church. Yeah. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thank you So if we back up to item six there's no ZBA report so we can skip all that and We have a signing of decision Can we just sort of do that and I can? Sign it after We need either Greg to come back or Perry Yeah, but the rest of you can sign it and this McGowan won't sign it. Yeah, so here here they come So you'll just pass. Yeah, and I can do that I can sign the minutes like after we close the meeting, right? I mean it to keep it rolling So can we postpone item new business item B downtown planning Do you want to talk about downtown planning right now? For five minutes. Is that okay with everyone five minutes? We'll start the clock Max five minutes for For Chris to talk to tell us about it for five minutes or I could talk about what Chris told me That there's money for sort of restarting the downtown conversation. So I was hoping to Let's schedule a date and do that and There's money for like a facilitator and then the other thing I was hoping is to sort of get a document that Incorporated what people said at the last two meetings But I thought there was a lot of good information that came out of that I went to it with the second session where they had the breakout groups I think with your husband was in my breakout group and there were a lot of really interesting ideas about things when people wanted to see downtown There is there are no names attached anything But there were like the groups had a lot of like fun and interesting ideas away things I'd like to see downtown So I think people if they could see the results of what they've said like, you know that they were heard Or there's a record of that that would kind of help us jump start and get people to re-engage because I know people care about a lot So that's that's my minute and a half. I think so Normally we do incorporate Or you all the planning department does and then puts it somewhere up on the website that never happened for that I think it happened forum We've happened for the first one, but it didn't happen for the second one So we have to go back and sort of reconstruct it for the second So you'll pull that together and put them back up. All right, and then Janet you were saying you want to schedule a meeting There's probably time in October because I think already sounds good 18th of September is getting kind of full. Yeah Good Good and then so item section 9 form a other any And ours hate to tell you there are oh god three. I think there are three Oh in the blue folder. Oh this in the blue there in here So if you pass me back, yeah, let me just pull out the signee things Sorry, I pulled them out already so I'm gonna come down and show them to you Or maybe I'll just pass them along Start with some of them you signed So the first one I'm gonna pass you is Property that is owned by Michael Kittrich's family and it has a very odd configuration currently They divided it into one two three four five six seven lots three of which are flag lots which are Really not very developable because the back part of them is in wetland And so the realtor who's representing the family is Suggesting that they Redo the lot lines to create I think three lots one of the lots has been sold off So when I come by and show you the big plan I'll show you which one has been sold off and then what you're doing here is Declaring that this is not a subdivision A and R stands for approval not required so subdivision approval is not required for this because there's no roadway being created There's no subdivision being created. It's merely Redoing lots on front it redoing lot lines for frontage lots. Oh, it'd be nice to know I think this is Leverett Road Yeah, as opposed to East Leverett Leverett Road. Yes, that's Leverett Road Jack actually I'll take them back because I haven't signed them. I'm just stacking my junk up But you and Janet sign these That's me don't worry about it. Well, that one's the dog part that I had Where is this thing That looks like Oh my gosh They're doing is there combining this These two access strips So the building circles show where the buildings are So nothing on this one This one already is no, I mean, sorry that goes to the back So they're only gonna four Right and four Yeah, because it's not in the back there's railroad, but there's power lines back there Well, that actually makes more sense what they're doing in the back is just power lines and railroad No, I wouldn't want to see anybody Is Yeah, yeah, yeah Yes, sorry the A&R gets weird I know yes, sorry They're like the back of Chris like what's going on Yeah, they will I promise As long as these two haven't come up with too much work for us. Yeah, this is property on East Leveret Road where There are very strange shapes to these lots I'm gonna pass around the plan that shows the existing shapes and then I will describe the proposed shape And the proposed shape is meant to include a well So there's a well between these two properties The person who has the house wants the well on his property obviously so he can control it And then the other guy can dig his own well if he needs to get his own well Yes fight well So that we were just over here with Kittridge and come down and State Street is here That is a house it's just a house and then these are existing houses My house I don't want to actually say who lives there, but I know So so they're splitting this off Wow So are these buildings there these are there yeah, there's two houses in a barn Yes, okay And so they're taking the well And then there's no house on this block Yeah, and they squeezed out that frontage by dragging the point out Wow I Know and the next one's even crazier When we haven't heard back from the town engineer we always send these in our plans to the town engineer in case he has any Questions or suggestions and for this one. It's a market Hill Road and As I said, we haven't heard back from him, but I'll show you Where it is located? Let's see Maybe miss field Sadler can tell me what's going on here. This shows the the location of the Lot and it's probably the location of the lot before it is subdivided. I haven't looked at the The proposal so I'm going to send this So this is a strange Integration as well. There's a kennel here So For some reason Not They're gonna turn out they're just cutting out that No building So why are they keeping it separate and not attaching it to this What's who's the next one over Christus side question Really Isn't it it's been closed it's been closed for six or eight years. Yeah It was The question here is once we hear back from the town engineer You authorize in the screen moment to come in and sign this right He If there's a driveway He probably looks at it a lot for septic And Right, and that was my only thought with this being such a small site I don't know because that's septic that they're on I mean they can The building commissioner This way But they would have to put a new one in and the new ones are good Okay, yeah, okay Well, what I think we're Chris is still torturing us a little bit. Sorry. Yeah, we're getting close So are there any upcoming ZBA applications just say zero Back When is that coming back The May I just say something which is that just for Janet's benefit One of the reasons that we tell you about these ZBA applications is if you Hear one of them hear about one of them and you want to have a presentation We can invite the applicant to come in and give you a presentation and you may want a presentation about the solar on the old New landfill that might be one that's big enough for you to want to see It's possible that you'd want to see the tip-up one as well with Two-family house non owner occupied on North Whitney Street. That's gonna have some Site issues related to it. And what is Aspen Heights? Coming back for Yeah, Aspen Heights has already been approved. It's shrunk from four stories to two stories It's only 88 units with 11 affordable units And I think this is just to prove similar to the way Kyle and Dave came to you tonight to show that they had met Condition requirements there to ask you for approval. That's what they're coming back. So on the duplex Is it owned by the owner? They're trying to convert it to a non owner or did someone buy it? it's owned by a Developer and someone who owns property in town who rents it currently and he's adding a new Dwelling I mean he's got a four a four Bedroom single family and he's adding he wants to add another four bedroom single family So it's kind of a big project and it's gonna have a fairly big effect on the neighborhood So if you wanted to see that I'm sure invite them to come in on the 18 right now our coping is low So we're like no not more but no I think we would we would want to see that yeah and the solar farm then No, it's admitted yet, right? So we don't have a date but it's out there, but you'd like to see it upcoming SPP SPR SUB I can't think of any. Oh, yeah. Okay, so at that point I think we should just have a motion to end or Reportive chair there is no zero and reportive staff. Do you have anything? Thank you for? Your tolerance and thank you Chris for we're all here together So adjournment motion move to adjourn Yeah, so again all in favor. Yes done you wow four hours and 15 minutes Thank You Amherst media