 Phoma President of Lushe Goumabasangao has declared that Western liberal democracy has failed in Africa because it was first, quote-unquote, first on the continent. The former president noted that the Western liberal democracy will never work as a system of government in Africa because it does not take into account the view of the majority of the people. Let's take a listen. We have a system of government in which we have no hands to define and design and we continue with it even when we know that it is not working. Those who brought it to us are now questioning the rightness of their invention. It is deliverability and it is relevant today, without it. Joining us live is constitutional lawyer Evans O'Felly. Baista O'Felly, good to have you on plus politics. Thank you. What can we say about the remark of this elder statesman on liberal democracy and his seeming futility or his seeming anarchalism of a sort in our polity? I think that the statement he just made is one that calls for a lot of interrogation. First of all, he meant that the western liberal democracy is one that we have practiced for a while but it appears that we are not able to practice it exactly as the west practices it. I think it is right to that extent. It is right to the extent that we have practiced it in a manner that leaves a lot to be desired. From the way we conduct our political system to electionary to getting to the tribunal and then getting the result and we have defined our own kind of liberal democracy, which in itself is not liberal by the way. I agree with him and said that the messenger himself also contributed massively to the distorted democratic result that we have had over the years. He has led this country both as a military head of state and as a civilian president and he should know. It was under his watch that democracy could not succeed as it were. He even created a layer of a third term attempt which was never democratic, which was unconstitutional and all that. I think that why he makes that remark, he should also let the public know and the entire international community know that he contributed immensely to the distorted value and the outright inconsistent democratic results that we have today in the country. He has mentored people too during his reign as the PPP leader. Of course, when the president of the country is the leader of the party, he introduced what he called you do or die after a kind of politics. He also should pretend that over human rights abuse and violations that was akin to genocide. He also contributed immensely to the distortion of the economic value of the Indian state given that for eight years he didn't perform as much as he should have done given that we're just coming out from a military regime. The democracy was fresh. The economy was not this bad. But that dividend of democracy that was desired by the citizens, we didn't get it. We're not up to this number of population. We had a good opportunity to fix electricity. For example, we couldn't do that. We had a good opportunity to fix the economic robust lady foundation for which the common leaders or successive leaders would have used them. But all that were not delivered. So, I think it's a message that is made in good faith but same message short the messenger at the foot. So, you find it a bit difficult to separate the messenger from the message. However, the color of the truth that the message wears to you. Is that what you're saying? Of course. The message is quite clear and is the truth. Is it true to the extent that it is given we have not been able to practice democracy the way this practice. Look at the issues of freedom of speech, for example. In the last four or five years, we've had a repression of the citizens. They want to assemble freely and protest peacefully. You have been held down today. So, that's not how it is practiced in the West. For where it came from. The issue of the security and welfare of the citizens. It's guaranteed where democracy came from. It's not guaranteed in Nigeria. Something aspect of the constitution in front of Nigeria is not just visible. It is just visible where democracy came from. What are the justiciable principles that would like to see replicated here? Let's talk to the specifics now because I tend to be hearing someone's utopian portraiture of democracy in the West. And I don't know anywhere now in the world where liberal democracy has not been faced with disillusionment. Indeed, in some respects, voter apathy. So, let's speak to what are the classical differences of our democracy to what prevails say in any Western liberal democracy that it was just opposing Nigeria's liberal democracy with. Okay, I will give you many as much as possible. Let's look at the issues of chapter two of our constitution, for example, where public health care is one of the fundamental objective and directive principles of state policy. Public health care, for example, is not visibly organized here in the West it is. So that one is very clear public health care is guaranteed in the West, not guaranteed here. That's one too. Human rights in terms of the welfare and security of the citizen is guaranteed in the West to a larger extent. To the extent that the public are largely secured, except for some cases, maybe in the U.S., where you have gone back to another, which is actually exceptional. It's not an attack on the populace in the city where it is usually an attack between people with differences and the rest of that. So to a larger extent, it is guaranteed that access to credit is guaranteed. You don't need to have 100% of forms before you access goods and services over there in the West. Okay, meritocracy, over there in the West, the policies of government, acceptability, employment is based on meritocracy. Okay, not on the autistic tendencies and tendencies that are programmed as to it. Okay, so it's guaranteed. When you look at also the issues of human rights, human rights generally on the right to life, to right of human movement, to expression. So, you know, the rest of it, largely so, I know that in the West, there are certain areas that they are challenged. But it is not to the volume or content we have it here in Nigeria, where, you know, the right of citizens are we fully suppressed by the establishment and the government will get it. How would you respond to the argument that says that some of the things you have itemized are working in the West, are not working in, say, our polity or in most, quote on quote, purported liberal democracies of Africa, that some of these things are functions of poverty, rather than the organic dystopia of democracy, that you fundamentally need to solve the problem of poverty. And if you really look at the history of the West, before they got to where they are now, they passed through what the kind of thing we are experiencing now because of the relative poverty that prevailed in their societies then. How would you respond to that? Well, from the get-go, from the get-go, if you look at the constitution, the people's poverty to be blamed on their government, because if you look at the constitution in section 143, it says that the government shall stir the economy in such a way that it will guarantee prosperity of the people. Section 14, that the security and welfare of the people shall be the primary purpose of government. So by the time you just oppose this with the West, is it? Is Barista O'Felly still there? Barista O'Felly, the connection is a bit raw. Hello Barista O'Felly, can you switch off the video unless it goes to audio? So the banks under the law by making consape owes to the shortage that governments guarantee the basics of the human condition on that. So people are so impressed. year's price is enough time to fix an economy and place it in a way in a in an area where it will guarantee the right of the citizens and give the citizens the dignity of democracy. I want it to be acquired by law but here rather than stay the economy to favor the citizens it is said to favor just the bourgeois the very few less than one percent of the people in our country are the ones that enjoy the dividends of democracy on down our our legal system as a currently constituted by so fairly and this will be my last question for you you don't think that it it is somewhat functionally delusional for a country that the only thing it has done consistently positively or indeed in fact it is is anathema to use the word positive in that instance the only thing Nigeria has increased on is our population since independence when we got independence in 1960 we were 58 million people now we are more than 200 million and with our 200 million plus population three times the population of South Africa we are just about the same GDP level with South Africa so it means that three Nigerians produce what one South African worker produces with such an economy where resources are daily tasks we add five million the population of Norway or the population of Gabon we add five million to our population every year and somebody who twice ruled Nigeria within those six decades now has the temerity to be finger pointing and be pontificating when ordinarily you have two major chances to make sure that population could have been positively controlled or productivity could have been positively increased i'm thinking maybe somebody like you need to review this more critically than just burning the sexy part of the submission yes i understand that the population has increased astronomically but that doesn't mean that government has also performed either yes over the years government have not shown but it's not fairly government have not shown but unfortunately we have to go on this occasion the line has not been too good we really want to appreciate you for your invaluable contribution the robustness of your intellectual of your intellectual contributions and uh thank you for enriching the program we really have to go at this at this juncture thank you