 Good afternoon everyone. When I first ran for office I said my three priorities are to grow the economy, make Vermont more affordable and protect the most vulnerable. I know you've heard this many many times before over the years but I want to talk a little bit more about why I set these in particular and why they're still my priorities today. The way I sought and still do is Vermont has had more than a fair share of challenges. We had an aging population, a workforce shortage and declining student enrollment for decades. We've also lost major employers with the lifeblood of their communities. Those losses and workers, students and jobs have disproportionately impacted communities outside of Chittenden County creating a gap between Chittenden and pretty much everywhere else in the state. And yet most of the spending decisions at Montpelier didn't take into account this regional inequity. So I ran for office and set these priorities as a way to focus on the fundamentals so we could address these challenges, attract more workers, revitalize communities that have been left behind for far too long and give more Vermonters the opportunities they deserve. Every proposal my team and I have put forward, every budget decision we've made, every bill I vetoed has these challenges and these goals in mind. Whenever we make a major decision we start by asking ourselves does this satisfy at least one of our goals? That's why we prioritize as a team so everyone understands the choices on the table and we make the best decisions we can for Vermonters. I believe this approach is essential to solving our challenges and make sure Vermonters get the most out of the investments we make because it's their money, not ours, it's their money and they've entrusted us to spend it wisely. It's especially important to remember that in years like this one when we don't have hundreds of millions of dollars in surplus. Take this year's budget for example, we knew it was going to be a tough year so we started with an understanding of how much we had to work with without raising taxes and fees. Then we heard from agencies and departments about new initiatives to move us towards our goals and cover additional needs. As a team we thought through the benefits and costs and weighed the value of proposals against one another. What we presented to the legislature was a balanced budget that grew by 3.57 percent without raising taxes or fees while still prioritizing housing, public safety, flood recovery and human services. Now as I've said there were more asks than available funding but we prioritize based on all the principles I talked about and made tough decisions based on our fiscal reality. I believe we owe it to Vermonters to have the courage to make these hard choices instead of asking them to pay more or increase costs that put that put on our economy and their livelihoods at risk. Unfortunately the supermajority and the legislature is talking about a different approach. Every committee appears to be doing its own thing without any spending parameters in sight. They did the same thing last year growing the budget more than what was sustainable which added to the level of difficulty when building this year's budget. This year they overspent in the BAA before understanding the full budget picture. So that put them in a $15 million hole before they even started working on the fiscal year 25 budget. As a result house appropriations on an eight to four vote moved forward with the budget to make cuts to some of our shared priorities like housing. The house budget slashes housing investments to help low income and vulnerable Vermonters which is bizarre. It eliminates funding for VHIP which has probably been our most successful housing initiative lifting people out of homelessness. These days our housing partners are reporting costs over $450,000 per unit that take years to build. In contrast the VHIP initiative brings units online in about a hundred days at a tenth of the cost. Another example is healthy homes and mobile home improvement programs which help Vermonters stay in their home but those were cut in half as well and our proposed expansion of the downtown villi's tax credit program was eliminated altogether which has helped smaller more rural communities the state so desperately needs to add housing. Now when you consider this along with the fact that neither chamber has yet to pass any reforms to make it easier and less expensive to build housing and the house is taking up a bill 8687 which will make it harder and slower to build for most communities is difficult to understand how legislative leadership can still say housing is a priority. Now I understand the house has housing investments in another bill but to gut these programs which have proven to have the greatest impact just doesn't make any sense to me. What also makes little sense to me is that the other housing bill has new and higher taxes and fees with very little to actually generate units which brings me to my next point they're spending a lot of money in other bills keeping them separate from the budget which is unusual making it less transparent more difficult to keep track of so we have to look at the aggregate and to pay for all of it they're increasing costs for those who live work visit do business and invest in Vermont. If the house is successful it will make Vermont the highest tax corporate state in America not exactly a great marketing strategy when you consider the businesses we need to locate here not a great strategy to keep employers here who are already dealing with high costs from property taxes to payroll taxes the utility costs and numerous other mandates much of which put Vermont at a competitive disadvantage disadvantage already making this change with the potential for huge consequences took about an hour of committee's time with virtually no testimony and we've seen in other areas from the people waiting changes in act 127 the clean heat standard and raise the age there are consequences when we don't think things through we should be striving to make it easier to do business in Vermont instead I fear the fear the actions that drive jobs and opportunity away exist and while we propose an exemption on the property transfer tax to jumpstart housing the legislature is contemplating the opposite they want to raise the property transfer tax which is paid for by the new owner these are just a few examples of taxes and fees on the table right now totaling over 100 million dollars as a reminder that's on top of the over 240 million dollar property tax heading our way it's safe to say I'm confused with the direction the legislature is going we hear from Vermonters every single day who are more than just concerned some are angry and some are just plain scared they simply cannot take anymore they can't afford the hundreds of million dollars in new taxes the legislature is considering at this point or even the legislature's hundred million dollar payroll tax coming July one they can't afford hundreds or thousands of dollars more a year to eat their homes and businesses and also see their electric bills increase as well even things like a 20 hike and dmv fees stretch budgets thin I hear over and over from Vermonters they don't feel Montpeer is listening to them when costs go up people struggle seniors on fixed incomes have to decide between their prescriptions reading their homes parents have to decide whether their kids can go to summer camp play sports take up musical instruments we're asking way too much of Vermonters and they deserve better and they've had enough I'd now like to introduce everyone to Amanda Shangrock a small business owner from Williamstown she knows firsthand how hard it can be to grow a business in Vermont last week she wrote to a group of lawmakers and shared her story she copied secretary curly on it who sent it to me it's a powerful example and it's one legislators should really really listen to so I invited her here to talk about it today because the things we do in this building have a real impact on everyday Vermonters so with that Amanda hi everyone thank you for coming thank you for having me my name is Amanda Marie Shangrock I'm a third generation Vermonter who was born with severe dyslexia and ADHD I was raised by a single widowed mom Nancy Griffin my father Barry passed away when I was young from a brain aneurysm I grew up in poverty in rural East Calus Vermont my mom took a job and worked overtime every week until she could retire from the United States Postal Service she supported a family of three of us children by herself I went to U-32 middle and high school and then continued my education at Johnson State College my entire life I wanted to do good I had dreams of a little kid owning my own business and becoming something making something of myself I struggled so hard in school that my own teacher advisor warned my mother my freshman year in high school that the likelihood of me even getting a diploma was very very slim and let alone being a contributing person in society but I took summer school and my mom worked overtime so that she could pay for private tutors to come to our home and teach me or in Gillingham so I could eventually grow up and learn how to read and write I did that every summer every year until I could graduate high school in fact when I applied for college and financial aid my mother had worked so much overtime that our family even though she was a single mom made just enough too much money to qualify for any student aid so I had to take out my education in private loans which I now burn like I carry that burden and I happily paid them in the middle of COVID-19 I met my now husband Peter Schengra he's standing with us here Peter is a single dad who has raised two incredible children on his own Peter is a multi-generational fermata as well he was raised by his mother k and his father Dennis Schengra he's one of four boys that grew up in rural Williamstown Vermont Peter's father was a truck driver and he is known in our community as someone who had the ability to work 80 to 100 hours a week Peter's mother k was a dedicated nurse until she retired just last year Peter and I by completely act complete accident in the middle of the pandemic started a now nearly a million dollar business it's called bergamot of more and we're located on route 14 in Williamstown we hand make luxury leather goods and we ship them all over the world we started our business out of Peter's garage with no professional tools we actually used a roofing hammer and whatever we could find to make these we cut our leather with scissors and eventually we outgrew that space in 2023 we found two abandoned properties on route 14 in Williamstown and we made the jump we were not ready to purchase these buildings but it was the last building in downtown Williamstown and everyone keeps saying do better help your towns lift people up Peter and I worked seven days a week for the last three and a half years we worked 16 hour workdays we have kids who are growing up we have sacrificed every day off we have not taken a family vacation we pay for the buildings in our town and the continuous upkeep with our own paychecks that we often skip with the goal of reviving a small rural town and promoting tourism we have people coming in every weekend that want to be in Vermont where do I go where do I shop they're so excited to be here we believe that Williamstown has and deserves the ability to build a better reputation for itself and survive post-pandemic and that's what we're trying to do the taxes that our business is seeing monthly to the state bi-weekly and payroll built into every transaction we take on top of increasing property taxes and the endless permitting and fees to upgrade our building to meet current state code and fire code and make sure that it's safe for people to come is bankrupting our small business since our business started in 2022 nearly two years ago we have paid a hundred and forty one thousand nine hundred and fifteen dollars and seventy three cents in taxes to the state of Vermont that number is about to increase drastically that's a price tag that Peter and I's take home salaries combined over the last few years have never met we employ eight incredibly smart motivated Vermonters some of which started with us as kids making three times what I did at their age starting out in the workforce with zero previous job experience and who are considered still dependents of their family I'm here today because I voted for a large majority of those of you in office and I'm feeling really let down and I'm hurting and I'm feeling really defeated just like thousands of other Vermonters and small business owners Democrats Republicans progressives alike I want you to see me and know who I am and when you go to vote for these bills picture my face and the hundreds of others just like me I'm asking you our state government as a representation of all of the working middle class how do we survive when we don't have pockets as deep as the big corporations how do we continue to build back better and keep our communities alive and thriving and helping people without having to accept a high interest rate loan or borrow money beyond our means or learn how to write a grant because we're already working crazy hours just to keep the lights on we can't afford to hire additional help when we need it we work nonstop to sustain between the costs of living currently and constantly increasing and having us to skip our own paychecks to make sure that the power stays on and we're keeping our employees employed we feel like we're drowning I'm reaching out because not only do we need help but I'm hoping this isn't the first time that you're hearing from a small business owner and I hope that this helps explain how your small hikes and taxes are truly killing the working class American dream I was told messages as a little kid that you want to grow up you go to school you do the right thing you learn even if you're different from everyone else and you've learned differently you get through it you persevere go away to college but when you're done come home start your family here start a business here help the businesses here that's what we're doing it feels further and further and further out of reach every day I stand with thousands of rural Vermonters and entrepreneurs when I say this we don't want to sit at home we don't want to collect from a system we want to contribute to it we want to work we want to create jobs we want to create housing we want to be a part of the the solution not the problem but we are all learning daily by our leaders right now that in the state of Vermont it is easier to give up and to stop fighting small businesses all around us in the state are folding they're leaving every one of our peers that owns a business that we talk to regularly and bounce ideas off of considers on a daily basis if they should move their business outside of Vermont close the doors go back to their house and work in the garage it was easier than but it's not helping our economy the taxes are killing us please I'm asking all of you when you go to vote on these things these little hidden things remember that they have great impacts and they are they're suffocating us that's all thank you it's powerful as the letter was when I read it hearing it in her own voice is that much more powerful and it's real and this is replicated across the state and this is what we hear this is what I hear and that's what motivates me to push it back against all the taxes and fees that I see being contemplated we simply can't afford it so with that open up to questions can I get an email of that speech sure please send it can you talk a minute about how this proposal specifically their under consideration right now like flow to your business um what do you do is yeah um well we peter and I make uh very little ourselves our business expenses are quite high um to keep people employed and make sure that they're surviving and being able to sustain their own households um money is tight the current bills that are in consideration and or have just passed are increasing our payroll taxes which are already very high um we'll see property taxes increase the buildings that we purchase need extensive rehab in order for them to be livable we have current tenants that we adopted when we bought these buildings that would be dispersed one of which is a mom of five these ripples are incredibly detrimental to our small business and our community Governor I imagine some of these these taxes that we're talking about today um you know DMB fees and others you know we these are going towards the expansion of a Medicaid for affordable healthcare uh for um you know the expansion of the criminal justice system the judiciary I guess how do you swear you know what you're hearing from voters and what they're asking from you and the services for you to provide versus how long the tears are interpreting that that message yeah well I think the judiciary public safety for instance um what they want is to feel safe they want accountability they don't want to to see the catch and release that they've been seeing over the last few years and what we're seeing in the courts is a system uh where people don't show up per court dates so all this time is booked state's attorneys show up lawyers show up judge shows up the perpetrator doesn't one charge does not that time is just eating up evaporates and so it it combines to a system that is inefficient um so that wastes a lot of time so with the budget that is being proposed by the judiciary it adds a lot of positions I think it's 70 something positions and I'm not sure that's going to be the immediate answer I think the immediate answer is get people into court have all of them accountable but there's other I mean there's other instances as well I just we should be we should be laser focused on this 240 million dollar tax bill property tax bill that's coming our way and from what I've heard and I'm not seeing us doing anything about it this year I've heard some talk about maybe next year but then it level sets it are it's a 20 25 increase and then you start from there so next year it'll be easier probably to keep it in line because you've already taken the big hit and that's what I'm seeing I mean this is all this is combining to something we can't afford as a state and it's all relative and there's a huge ripple effect across the state when any of these tax proposals impact us from you know they have to pass it on to somebody else nobody likes to hear that but businesses aren't going to be able to absorb Peter and Amanda aren't going to be able to absorb it they got to pass it on to their customers so it's got to come from somewhere and that just raises the the cost of living in Vermont raises it creates inflation we have to we have to make some tough decisions and I know it's difficult but nobody said this was going to be easy but we have to live through the the good times and the bad and when there's bad times we have to pull up our bootstraps and survive for a better day and and I think you know before last year I think we were poised to do that but the spending that we saw last year increased 13 percent increase in the budget that has an effect on today because it's compounded now we already have the 13 percent in the budget so when they hear about the 3.57 they think well geez you're just restricting us too much we can't live within that but they already raised that 13 percent last year and compounding if you took it all together did the analysis you probably come up with about in total between the two take out the compounding probably 20 percent so we're we're raising about eight eight to ten percent a year that's a lot so it's across the board and from what I'm seeing again hard to keep track of I know what they're going to say you know you're going to ask me the questions you're going to say well geez governor you know the budget they're presenting is about equal to yours what are you complaining about my answer is they cut everything out of what we need in terms of housing included a few things of their own now they got four or five other bills they have spending attached to them they're going to be that you have to take in the aggregate and I don't think they're doing that but we'll see I mean we're going to highlight that governor what would be your cuts number one two and three what would be some give you this okay what do I what do I change in this in their budget I go back to our budget that's one two I go back to our budget three I go back to our budget in particular which elements of that it's hard to deter you know all across the board again you have to take in the aggregate so all these other bills that are coming through are going to have an impact raising taxes and fees is my biggest concern at this point so what can you do so if they want to present a budget it's real that grows at 3.57 percent across the board let's talk that's about prioritization what do they want to prioritize versus what we did if housing isn't a priority to them say it we'll work with them in some way to not raise the cost of living in Vermont any more than it is today again being being the number one in terms of corporate tax in America nothing to be proud of governor before you talk about any battles in the building you said that you were planning on reaching out to maybe more fiscally modern democrats and dependents people right of center that type of thing what progress have you have you made on on you know recruiting and reaching out to to candidates making making progress can you exactly no you're you're engaged sure have you personally made calls i've talked with people talk with people who have approached me about running and their viable candidates and they're not all republicans if reducing the 249 uh increase in property taxes is such a priority why not update your six-year-old cost containment plan why not hand the legislature laws that they can just say yes we'll do this why not make it as you think they'll do that seriously i have going to give them here's my suggestion legislation they know them by the way you know them they know them here's my list what do you think well for example you've suggested lowering the excess spending threshold we've passed laws that have pushed that out for a number of years we've switched from a system that measures equalize pupils to a system that measures long-term weighted average daily membership there's complicated legislative changes that have occurred that make your old proposal impossible to implement why not flesh that out or we're ready willing to enable but they have to be willing as well i mean as i've said many times you know bipartisanship isn't a one-way street but it has been in this building seems like ever since i got here i've been giving i've been reaching across the aisle i said at my my budget address we say the state i'm not asking you to do across the aisle i'm asking to meet me in the middle i'm still still there and available to do that but we have to set some parameters we have to be realistic and for monitors are feeling this i mean if you're not hearing from them i i'm i'm at a loss because we're hearing from them you must be the lion's share of the proposed new revenue from a new tax bracket on income over five hundred thousand dollars how does that proposal exacerbate quality of life of the people that you're doing well it's just that the talk of increased costs anywhere and again to think that some of these costs won't impact anyone other than the people were taxing so there is a you know there's a flight risk to raising taxes on the most wealthy i think the jfo even recognizes that they put in a think 35 percent or something allowance for that so you know when i say it nobody believes it jfo said it it's a tax flight we're going to allow for that probably will come so how much is that going to be and who are the 35 percent are they the the ones making just barely 500 000 and i would guess those who are making about 500 000 next year are going to make 495 or maybe those making 550 are going to make 495 they'll figure it out and and those making a million two million whatever it is i don't we don't have that many they're going to make decisions too so what if it's what if the 35 percent is those are out of those making over a million dollars a year that'll impact us individually all of us because there's only so much money in the system and if they leave we'll feel it but we won't feel until next year so you know i'm going back to what i said since day one you know i'm i'm just i can't accept raising taxes and fees and i know it's tough but at the same time we have to do it in our own individual lives in our own households in their own business and we have to do it as a legislature as an executive branch working together to make sure that we're not pricing people out of vermont and forcing them to make decisions down the path they don't want to go they want to be viable they want to take care of themselves we're pushing them into poverty we'll see what they look like and i'm not going to but i i've said i'm not in favor of raising tax and fees i think we can do without it got a few folks on the phone so we'll start with tim mcquiston from business magazine wondering governor also about the the wages and that you were talking about you could meet the legislators in the middle somewhere is that something on on um you could meet them on the middle odd on the higher you know separate out the the high income wagers from some of the other tax increases back you know yeah nothing about your your strategy about yeah tim i i just don't know i mean you you must be hearing from your members the business community must be concerned about what they're seeing unless i i'm only hearing from if you dozen of them but maybe you're hearing something different are they concerned uh most of the concern frankly is on the on the property tax side that we're hearing from i'm concerned about both thank you and barbara newport daily express governor can i ask you to elaborate a little more on age uh 687 as to the effect that it will have on the rural communities of smaller villages and towns yeah well it doesn't you know they'll provide in time there will be more expansion of act 250 throughout the state and we'll be giving attack or act 250 exemptions to two other it's just some communities but i i think it's only maybe a couple dozen other communities the rest will be impacted but i might ask who's on is julie on today ed will get you exactly um some of the the concerns we have with that bill it's it is in tears um and it you know it from my standpoint we have immediate needs now for more housing and this that bill does nothing to help in that regard it may be something that we want to do and it's a long-term strategy longer term next you know four to six years and that's okay if that's where we want to end up but we need relief right now to get more housing built because this is a crisis that we have and if we have as i've said before if this is truly a housing crisis then we better act like it is and we're going to have to do some things that are uncomfortable for some in order to accomplish that and that may be some of the regulatory reforms we're talking about like is in some of them are in i'd like to see it go further but in s3 11 i think that's a that's a good bill it could be better but it's a good bill and would provide some of that maybe they'll maybe they'll endorse that and move forward maybe there's a way to do both but from my standpoint the immediate need is housing and i don't see the other bill accomplishing anything in the short term except making it more complicated sami's the more information at the art salon thank you very much ed is anybody up in newport concerned about taxes higher taxes i think everybody in newport is concerned about higher taxes there's no question about it um passing school budgets was not fun for other people here because they don't know when package is going to happen their taxes and till the legislature um that's everything set up for the end of the year i think that's a major concern that the voting on a budget they don't know what the dollars are that might be something to consider the future there's a way that you can get a better number of people in december to january when they're building budgets instead of may whether they buy past their budgets and march i don't know how you can do it but that's what we like to do that for thank you thank you ed tom davis comes from i thank you jason okay but uh governor um one of the latest revisions of 687 pushes out the date to start considering these municipalities out to january 2027 which on the surface is basically saying uh we don't see any urgency for housing we're willing to go back and on and set an average money to create a new environmental review for it did they provide to you or your office or staff any justification for taking the camera far down the road? not that i recall tom but i can i can check with julie and others who have been on the front lines but not that i am aware of do you feel that there's enough of a pushback that's happening in the legislature that that bill may come back to be more bipartisan we can hope i i don't i don't know you know a lot of things can happen in this building uh during the last month or two of a session so um i'm hopeful but i'm not there i'm not betting on it thank you another question back to the room governor you mentioned you've been in the political minority most of in fact all of your time as governor forever this this conversation kind of has a different feel to it uh you know we've heard at least i've heard at least a couple of republican lawmakers that are choosing to step back because of some of the issues that you're raising where do you draw the line as to whether to run whether to continue like where where personally where do you draw you know i i love my state and i think we have so much to offer there's so much opportunity here if we play our cards right if we follow through on some of the promises we've made i get frustrated when i see a new legislative session and there's always the shiny new objects that come along and they forget about the ones they started two years ago or four years ago they don't follow through and they instead find this new shiny object that takes all their attention away and and i i just think you know going back to the fundamentals trying to to give vermont is what they what they need but they at the same time being really realistic about our economy and and the the impact we have on every day for monitors this is gift creek credit uh to vermont public uh read there was a story that i read this morning about uh wanita nun i believe in the callus and uh heartbreaking to read the story well done but heartbreaking here's a woman lost her husband uh this home has been in the family for since the 1800s i believe and now she's had to buy a mobile home put it out in the back of where the home is the home she's lived in for three decades and uh because it's less expensive to heat uh less expensive to maintain she can't maintain she loves her home but can't maintain it so she's going to move into this mobile home uh and dismantle this piece by piece this beautiful old farmhouse that's out in callus because she can't afford the taxes she's on a fixed income she can't afford to live there in the in the same house she's been living in the three decades so heartbreaking story but my first reaction to that was i was thinking when i was reading i said we we got to go out there and help her we got to help wanita we we need to fix her home and then i thought that doesn't fix the problem she's we could fix the home so she could stay there but she can't afford the heat and and she can't afford the taxes we're not fixing that those are the fundamentals i keep talking about so until we fix the structure it's hard to know what to do next um because it's really the fundamentals those are the issues that we have to face but my hats off to Vermont public for talking about some of these stories the stories man and peter that's another powerful story wanita none powerful story we need to hear more of those well we have programs available and and maybe yeah i mean maybe now that we know maybe there is something we can do i don't know i first i've heard of wanita hill uh none i mean and um but we'll we'll be reaching out there's some talk in the house about getting the issue of property tax increase by eliminating the exemption on sales tax for software as a service again raising funds to offset this doesn't fix the problem we have a structural problem in our in our education system in general it costs too much for what they're getting so until we fix that why are we throwing more money at it why aren't we figuring out what we can do to fix the structure like that that's just a poor business decision as far as i'm concerned so you've hired a new secretary of education with experience in closing schools you talked about that last week a characteristic approach is that something you see your agency of education being active in and sort of pushing you out of closing small schools well i i mean it's part of part of what we have to i've always said that's not the complete strategy what i've said is that's got to be on the table amongst many other things everything has to be on the table in order to work our way out of the hole we find ourselves in but as i said i think it was maybe my first state of the state when you find yourself in a hole stop digging we keep digging and keep filling back filling with cash that's not fixing the problem so we've got to get realistic about what it is and then we should start with it with the kids the students and work our way back out from there what's best for them what are some of the other structural changes that would reduce educational again we have we've provided a number of those thoughts over time and some of them are still valid some of them has been pointed out probably or not but we've got to figure this out we we can't continue to have this inefficient system that is not helping our kids and it's just and it's actually hurting everyday Vermonters with higher property taxes and to switch it to something else just to switch it to an income tax or whatever it doesn't fix the problem it goes back to and we can do all that if you know once we fix the structure or simultaneously simultaneously fixing the structure while we while we fix the inefficiencies within the system sure but but just throwing more money at it we've proven that hasn't worked can you talk through the timeline of your appointment of Zoe Saunders so it's my understanding that in November the state court of education sent you a list of free names as it was required by law that was before she took her job in Broward County where it was reported she primarily led a school closure initiative did you know at the time when we received her name that she had taken a job in Broward County or is there some sort of arrangement where she was only going to take that job on for a short period of time no we we just received the names from the state board that's the way it works we didn't have any involvement in that decision and then forward the names with her resumes then we interviewed from there and so had you talked to her before she took that job like we there were many many levels of engagement with the candidates and and mine came at the end with all candidates so I can't say that I I don't know what they asked or what they knew but but these have been going on for a while multiple levels different people within our administration we want to get a full breadth of you know who who these people are and what are their capabilities and who's the right person at the right time for this position this important position and it wasn't a concern that a candidate took a new job in the middle of interviewing this job no I I wouldn't think that anyone would be precluded from from being considered they have to live too so taking another job I think her goal was to to get this job but to take another job in between I think you know I think we all have to do the math and think there might be a at least a 30 percent chance 60 percent chance maybe she wasn't going to get the job just don't know with three candidates so I don't I don't I don't see that that's relative well we've we've done quite a bit I think in the BAA for instance they took four million out of what we were going to use for shelters emergency shelters homeless shelters and gave that to VHCB so I mean we we think that's part of the answer but we need housing throughout all different levels of income in order to make this work we just plain need more housing so we provided for that as well we think that we need to we can't do it with state funds we just don't have them we need to make it easier for private entities to build as well so I know that you talked a lot about the what you see as a need for deregulation in order to encourage more building what do you make of housing or advocates argument that that does not necessarily help lower income folks as much as signal or higher income well I think whether you're setting up a homeless shelter or building a moderate income two bedroom home or a condo or apartments the permit process is part of the issue takes time to get through it I would think the nonprofits would talk about this as well they have difficulty getting through the permit process so again if we are serious about housing getting it put into place as soon as possible we can we have to do things treat a like a crisis and do things that may be uncomfortable and some of that is in regulatory changes maybe just short term regulatory changes and that'd be forever but let's let's get moving on clearing the path so we can get the housing that we I thought we all agreed we needed it package I think yeah I think opening up the payroll tax at that point in time was a mistake I I vetoed that you know so I still feel that way today I think I bet there are many legislators who maybe sit on different maybe appropriations committee at least they had that taxing capacity today that might help us out of a couple of jams we're in but they already took that step I'm still contemplating that I think I've talked about some of my concerns about about are we treating this as we do flavored alcohol and some of the other choices that adults make and so you know we we have we have cannabis now that's legal and we have edibles we have cannabis in there isn't that a concern as well I mean there's there's all these things that flavored alcohol flavored beer I mean we have we have it all and we promote it so I I'm having trouble justifying why this is so much different than the others so again I am not a smoker I never never have been never will be and my preference would be that no one smoked but that's not a reality and there are adults in this in this world that choose to do what they want to do that includes other areas whether it's alcohol cannabis or or cigarettes and tobacco the house is also advancing uh or maybe with the senate I think it's the senate I'm sorry um still assigned in the classroom um working group exploring therapeutic um benefits uh have you seen the idea what do you think I've seen um just I haven't looked into that um I thought we passed the mushroom bill but I understood that that wasn't the one that was passed but um I uh I just don't know enough about this one I'll confer with our our our folks to see whether it's something that can be utilized safely uh and whether it should be I'm sure the legislature is contemplating the same thing though governor are you still holding your weekly or bi-weekly meetings with house and senate leaders we have them on the calendar every week yes do you know I do are they not always but there's there's a lot of floor time at this point I mean I I get it I mean they're busy there's it's hard to carve out time to meet with me aren't they on Monday no they're typically on uh Thursdays or Fridays we schedule them every week every other week I haven't I haven't analyzed that I'd have to get back to you get my statisticians uh statisticians working on that well I ask because you mentioned earlier in the past talking with legislators I met with uh I think uh Senator Barouf last week I think so yeah we're talking do you think often enough well until there's something to talk about until there's some some reasonableness um I don't know what we'll talk about seems like there's a lot to talk about we're here yes I fully recognize that are things friendlier less tense what is that one-on-one yeah no no you know I try and put politics aside I truly believe in respect and civility there's always things we have in common we may not agree but but that's been the way I've conducted myself over my over two decades of political life and it served me well and I'll continue to do that I'm frustrated admittedly with some of what I'm seeing this year but that doesn't mean that they say animosity there with with the leaders can you understand there why for why they don't know this yeah I mean yeah I mean there's sure I mean it's I think it's a lot of it's politically motivated and worried about the next election and they have to show up their base you think that's the motivation to them primary motivation I think for the tax on high income earners and why yeah I think they have to work there they're not going to cut during an election year they don't want to I mean they need to they need to fulfill some of the promises they made governor I talk to a lot of teachers and they tell me you know we really like Phil Scott we like but it seems like he doesn't support teachers or public schools or or you know the unions and why do you think that is that they say that well because you know I'm the one that always brings up having to do something different with the system that we have and that always goes back to them I mean the reality is I think a high percentage of the cost is in is in labor and education so some of it is in inefficient schools and so forth and so on so it always leads to I'm attacking them but that's not my motivation it really is about I support our teachers I think they do a great job with what they have but we've given we don't we don't give them all the tools they need we spend a lot of money but it's not used wisely enough so if they were if we were able to get a work on a system that's that satisfies some of my structural concerns I think that they would see the merit in that we'd have better we've had better outcomes but it's this isn't an attack on on teachers or unions I mean we need them we need more of them they're we're in deficit there but this might be the time to consolidate in different areas so that we can all get what we need thank you all