 So, to close off the day, we're going to have, we're going to call on Amanda once again. I should say, I asked Amanda Ripley to moderate, you know, first we asked her to give a short talk at this conference and then we said, well, we said 10 minutes. You know, Amanda, I should say, our Emerson fellow here at New America is in the throes of writing her next book. So she's really busy and I said, Amanda, I just need you to come in and talk for 10 minutes. It was, well, Amanda, could you also moderate a conversation? And then it was like, well, Amanda, could you moderate two conversations and about, by the way, about your talk? Maybe you can just give your full talk because it's the end of the day and it really ties together a lot of what we're going to be talking about. So thank you once again, Amanda. The title of her talk here today is Resilient You, What to Do in an Emergency Now That We've Defined Resilience Today. Thank you, Amanda. So my next book is about education and I actually, although it is hard to be pulled away from it, it's a relief. I mean, believe it or not, disasters are much easier than education reform. So I kind of miss this stuff. But anyway, I wanted to just talk a little bit about very specific examples of resilience and very tangible ideas about how to increase your personal resilience, particularly when it comes to old-fashioned and new-fashioned disasters. So in a conference room like this, where you're sitting here all day, there's stale coffee and there's soda and it's hard to keep in mind that things can happen, that we are actually half a mile from the White House and about two miles from the Capitol and, you know, you just can't predict exactly what's going to happen from one moment to the next. So what I'd like to talk about today is something that we can predict regardless of what happens, which is human behavior in disasters. And I got interested in this through my work at Time Magazine where I just sort of by coincidence ended up writing about a series of disasters one after the other. And what I found is that in all kinds of disasters, the most interesting and surprising and useful things were being told to me by the survivors of disasters, things that they wished they had known before the disaster. And like I said, we unfortunately have a lot of experience with this, not just in this country, but around the world. And oftentimes, I don't feel like the voices of survivors are heard in constructive ways. You know, we go to survivors for stories of grief and suffering and blame and regret, but not always for stories of what to do differently in very specific ways. So I want to just talk a little bit about very quickly the three phases that most of our brains go through in actual disasters, because I don't think you can understand how to prepare for disasters until you understand what to expect, right? I don't know if anyone's ever had a baby, but if you've read that book, what to expect when you're expecting. Has anyone ever seen this book? This book, I kind of hate this book actually. There's something about it that just drives me crazy, but it's a best seller and everybody gets it when they get pregnant. And so this is sort of like what to expect when you're expecting a disaster. So that you know mentally and physically and socially what to expect. And there is evidence that that is very valuable and can improve your performance in the event and certainly your recovery afterward. So the first phase that everyone goes through, even people with a lot of training, is a profound period of disbelief or denial. And this is a very creative, actually impressively creative kind of denial, not the kind of everyday denial that we all use to cope. So to give you an example of this, I want to tell you about a woman named Elia, who I spent a lot of time with for my first book. And she was great. She had a great memory for detail, very funny woman who liked to smile. And she had actually come to the United States from Cuba when she was 11 years old. Her family had immigrated here and moved to West New York, New Jersey, a suburb of New York City, where she could see the brand new World Trade Center towers almost anywhere she went. And when she was 21, she applied for a job at the World Trade Center at the Port Authority as a secretary. She had no idea what the Port Authority did. But she saw the job listing and she went. And next thing you know, she got the job and rose through the ranks. And by the age of 41, she was managing five other employees for the Port Authority on the 73rd floor of Tower 2. And I want to just slow down the clock here and talk a little bit about this experience from her point of view. So she arrived on the morning of 9-11. She got to work a little after 8 AM, as she always did. And she had, you know, had a cubicle. She put her stuff down. She tucked her voicemail. The usual rituals we all go through. And she was getting ready to go down to the cafeteria to get some breakfast, another ritual that she followed. When at 846 AM, as we now know, an American Airlines Boeing 767 going 490 miles an hour hit the plane, hit the building. The same building she was in, 11 floors above her. Obliterating about four floors immediately. So this was not a subtle experience, right? This is very dramatic, shaking, lunging of the building. Unlike anything she had ever experienced in her 20 years there. So at that exact moment, if you sort of freeze frame on that moment, we know that Elia's brain changed. That your brain starts operating slightly differently when you're frightened. And the more frightened you are, the more differently it operates. So normal rules of engagement don't apply. It's really important to understand that, I think. So in Elia's case, what she remembers doing is grabbing her desk, lifting her feet up off the floor, and screaming, what is happening? And luckily for her, someone in her office yelled back, get out of the building. But what she remembers is that she didn't want to leave. She's not sure why, but every fiber in her being wanted to stay. And that is very common, that survivors will tell you, that they just wanted someone to say, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine. Don't overreact. And that is actually normal, and that is how your brain is wired. You know, we operate according to patterns, scripts, everything that's happened to us before, and we try to fit in what's happening into those patterns. And if we've not been trained for this or had an experience like this, then we will try very hard to normalize the situation, and to try to fit it into normal life and normal experience. And there's nothing wrong with that, and we should expect it. I mean, the only problem, of course, is that it can be time consuming. But in Elia's case, even though someone had told her to get out of the building and she knew that something was terribly wrong, she stood up and started looking for things to bring with her before she evacuated. Again, about half of the people who evacuated the World Trade Center also participated in what is called the gathering phase, where people will look for things to bring with them. And people do this in all kinds of situations. It's a big problem on airplanes, which in most airplane crashes, what happens is the airplane's on the ground, but on fire. And it's all about getting off very quickly, because the smoke is so toxic. And what they've found again and again, aviation safety specialists have found that people will immediately go for their overhead baggage. So the cabin is filling with smoke and people will go to get their baggage. And you know, if you try to take, I've actually seen footage of this, if you try to take a rolling suitcase down an overwing escape slide, it's basically like a missile, right? And it really slows down the evacuation. It's very, very dangerous. So they've tried to compensate for this by training flight attendants to scream at people not to grab their bags and that sort of thing. But again, I would just argue that this is not because, you know, people are just idiots, it's because this is what you always do when you get off a plane, right? You jump up, you check your cell phone, you get your overhead bag and that's what you will revert to and it is, unfortunately, time consuming. So in Ellia's case, she picked up her purse, sort of makes sense, right? But she still didn't want to leave. She started sort of walking in circles around her cubicle. And then she picked up a mystery novel that she'd been reading off and on. You never know. And she finally, luckily for her, unlike many people who worked in the Trade Center every day, she knew where all the stairwells were. So she, at that point, headed to the stairwell. On average, people waited about six minutes to begin their evacuation of the World Trade Center and there are lots of reasons for this, all good reasons. Some of them were told to wait, right, not to evacuate. But once the evacuation began and people were in the stairwell, what we know is that people behaved very well. People were very courteous, almost to a fault with each other. People would move to the side any time an emergency personnel came up or somebody who was hurt came down. In fact, this is one of the most common questions that survivors get from the Trade Center. It was, what happened in the stairwell, what was that like? And what they have to keep telling people is it was very quiet, very calm. People were sharing information to the degree they had it. People were sending water bottles down in an assembly line formation. You had more water than you could handle, in most cases. And, you know, this is, again, typical behavior. So it's not like a normal day. It's not like, you know, being at Metro Center at Rush Hour. It's not like that. People in high stress life or death events tend to form groups, including with strangers. They tend to be courteous to one another. And they tend to want to stay with their group, even if they're not sure the group is making the right decision. There's been some really interesting studies of U.S. mining disasters that have shown this. And you see the same thing even among strangers in, say, train bombings or other incidents. So in Elia's case, she begins the descent down the stairwell. And we know that it took people about one minute per floor to descend the stairwell, which was about twice as long as safety engineers would have predicted. Again, lots of reasons for that, but one of them wasn't that it was overcrowded because you'll remember that the buildings were less than half full on the morning of the attacks. So, again, people move more slowly than you'd expect. What you don't get is this sort of Hollywood stampede. It's very unusual. And something that you should plan for. You should plan for people to move slowly, including yourself. You should plan wherever you work that it's going to take at least a minute to get down each floor. And it makes a lot of sense, then, once you understand this, that you should take the stairs on a regular basis, right? So that you not only get a little exercise, but you have some muscle memory for how to do that and how long it takes. So, Elia descends. And while this is going on, what's happening in your brain is that the amygdala, which is sort of a small almond-shaped mass of nuclei located at the base of your brain, it's a darker blue area here on the slide, becomes more dominant in this kind of situation and overrides. This is your sort of, the amygdala is your sort of primitive fear response survival mechanism and overrides your higher functioning parts of your brain. So that means that it becomes harder to think, to make decisions, even really small decisions. To do anything that isn't, you don't have a lot of muscle memory for. You haven't done many times, becomes very difficult. So, for example, people in cruise ship disasters will report that it was very hard to put on the life jacket or that the life jacket was broken. The same is true with the oxygen masks that dropped down during a decompression of an airplane. People will have a lot of trouble putting that on. And that's because they've never been asked to do it. All the times that they've been shown it, they've never physically done it, right? So anyway, this is something that happens to all of us. And the more frightened you are, the more problematic this balance is, right? Which again goes to the idea that you want to already have some experience in a certain situation or ideally some training so that you can kind of stay in the zone and not have that get too extreme. So this period of denial took an interesting form with Elia. She, as she was going down the stairs, she knew that something was wrong, but her working narrative for what must have happened, because she heard in the stairwell that a plane had crashed into the building. And her working narrative was that the pilot must have had a heart attack and that it must have been a small plane, which is I think what I remember thinking living in Manhattan at the time and watching the TV and getting ready to go down there and report on the incident is that it must have been an accident. And then she was about halfway down and another plane hit the other building. And she knew this because she was in the crossover transfer hallways. I don't know if you remember this, but the Trade Center was actually not an easy building to get out of. So you had to cross into another stairwell at a certain point and there were windows and you could see the other tower. And that is when the plane hit when she was waiting in line to go down that second stairwell. So now she knew there were two planes. So as she continued descending, she came up with a new narrative for what was happening, which was that the pilots must have been racing. And now she was kind of ticked off because it's just not right, right? But still, you can see it's a relatively benign narrative, which was important to her, she thinks, in retrospect, to keep her moving. As she continued descending, somebody behind her pointed out that there had been a space of time between the first and the second plane. And so part of her brain thought to herself, oh, so maybe they weren't racing. And she remembers just sort of burying that idea, just sort of not thinking about that anymore and continuing to walk down the stairs. As she's going down, she remembers thinking that there were a lot of women who had taken their shoes off. Women were actually twice as likely to get injured in the World Trade Center evacuation because they were more likely to be wearing heels. So they took their shoes off because it actually, if you're going to walk down 73 flights, that's a pretty significant walk. And then they would step on glass and then there would be piles of shoes that people would trip over and so forth. And this is another very common thing is that your hand-eye coordination and some of your basic coordination tends to be affected the more frightened you are. We know actually that there are some really fascinating distortions that happen to you in all kinds of extreme stress events. And in every case is your brain, you know, trying to help you survive, but we don't understand exactly why they happen or how they happen. The first and most common one is that time slows down. Has anyone ever been in a situation where you feel like slow motion? Yeah, very common. And in a few cases, people will report that time seemed to speed up. So what's happening all the time, even right now, is that your brain is kind of syncing up all of the things that are coming at you so that they align. And so it sort of makes sense then that your brain could change that, right? And theoretically, we think it happens because when time slows down, maybe it helps you to process what's happening. But again, it's not very well understood. But we know that in police officers involved in shootings of civilians, there's been a large study of police officers in these situations. And afterwards, 94% of them report experiencing some sort of sensory distortion like this. So this is very common and pretty much guaranteed for everyone without training in a situation. Another very common one is tunnel vision. So where you'll find your brain will really focus on the perceived threat. So people who are the victims of muggings will be able to often tell you all about the weapon, but not about the perpetrator's face. Pilots have actually trained to combat this tendency so they will sort of sweep the horizon under stress so that they overcome this myopia, right? But it's very common. And in fact, you all experience it on a regular basis when you talk on your cell phone while driving. So you lose about 20% of your peripheral vision when you do that because your brain is really only designed to focus on one thing at a time, even in low stress situations. So another one is what you might call tunnel hearing, which is the same effect where people will report not hearing major things, which seems to be your brain kind of censoring distractions for you. So police officers will report not hearing their gun going off and not having their ears ring afterwards, which is kind of a mystery because we didn't know you could shut off your ears. So another one that's very complicated but also very interesting, I'll just touch on briefly, is dissociation, which is a sense of sort of outer body experience, being detached from what's happening as if it's happening to someone else. And there are different degrees of this. Most people experience some of it, but there's some evidence that the more you experience, the harder it might be to recover. There's a lot more to say about that. But anyway, we know that all of these things go on and that the point of this is just to say, again, these are the things to expect. These are normal. These are your brain, this is your brain trying to help you after, you know, all that it has evolved to do to help you survive. But you can tell, right, that it would be helpful to have a sense of where exits are and, you know, to memorize phone numbers or write them down even better so that they're not all in your cell phone because you won't be able to remember them. And if your cell phone dies, then you're kind of out of luck. These little things that we don't really think of because we can rely on our brain to function in normal times, we will not be able to rely on in situations like this. So, Elia eventually gets out of the building and walks outside and she's filled with relief that she's finally made it this far. It's taken her about 40 minutes. And at that moment, she looks around and, of course, sees that this is a very big deal, that this is much bigger than she thought. And what happened to Elia was what happens when that fear pendulum swings too far, which is she stopped moving altogether, again, very common. And, in fact, in her case, she stopped seeing. So, she remembers literally losing her vision and just standing there out on the mezzanine in front of the World Trade Center as people are running and people are shouting. So, this is obviously a very dangerous response, right? But then something else happened, which also happens to almost everyone in most disasters, which is a stranger came up to her and took her by the arm and said, come on, we're getting out of here. She never saw this woman's face. She just remembers somebody taking her elbow and walking with her away from the towers. So, again, the thing we can expect after denial is deliberation, that people will become very social, they will tend to help each other. And that is not because they are nice, per se. It's because it's in their survival interests to be social in these situations. So, she begins walking with this woman, who she remembers just talking and talking and talking. She can't remember what she was talking about, but she knows that she just kept talking and talking and talking. As Alia said, she never shut up and she just kept talking. And then at some point she felt the ground rumbling and all of a sudden Alia's vision came back. So, you see how your brain is just sort of censoring and revealing and senses kind of fascinating. And just at that moment, she took off running into the boarder's bookstore that was down there. And that, of course, was when the first tower was collapsing. So, long story short, she eventually gets home safely and she still works in the Port Authority today in Newark, New Jersey and is one of the volunteer survivors who leads tours of Ground Zero. So, another example I want to show you about the deliberation phase is a visual that is particularly compelling. This is a picture taken in Thailand in 2004, moments before the tsunami. So, we know there are a couple of warning signs that tend to happen, natural warning signs, before tsunami. And the first one is an earthquake, which had happened actually hours before, far away. And the second one is that the water will behave strangely, not always, but often. So, it'll recede, get very shallow like this and sometimes frothy. And you can see here that people have noticed this change. And they are, in many cases, talking about it and walking towards it. So, here would be a great opportunity for deliberation to serve its purpose if people knew what the signs of a tsunami were. But in most cases, people did not know, especially tourists, but not just tourists. And so, without that latent wisdom in the community, that deliberation phase was not helpful. This is a picture taken moments later during the tsunami, a different part of Thailand. And you can see in the upper left corner, the water is surging towards the shore. And this dive instructor in black had actually been running towards the water right before this because he had seen that people were congregating on the beach and walking towards the water because it looked so strange. And he thought maybe someone was drowning and maybe there was something he could do. So, he was running towards it and then he very quickly turned and ran away. And this is a picture taken by a survivor that I've spent a lot of time talking to. It's been very helpful over the years, moments after the tsunami when he walked out of his hotel room door and looked around. So, the water came and receded fairly quickly. So, that's an example of deliberation not working. And there are lots of examples of deliberation working. And so, I wanna quickly share one of those. This girl is Tilly Smith, she was 10 years old. She was from the UK and she was in Thailand vacationing with her parents over Christmas that year. And she was taking a walk on the beach with her parents when she noticed this strange behavior of the sea. And luckily, she had just learned two weeks before in her geography class about the basic warning signs of a tsunami and watched some video of a Hawaii tsunami and knew all about this. But I don't think that was the only thing that was fortunate. I think part of it is that she was a child. And so, she didn't feel, I think I'm speculating, but from my sense is that she didn't feel the same fear of being embarrassed or being wrong that many of us feel in these situations. So, she told her parents, I think there's going to be a tsunami. Look at the water. That's a warning sign of a tsunami. I just learned about it in school. And her parents sort of looked at her like she was crazy and they said it's fine. They normalized the situation. And they tried to sort of calm her down and they kept walking. And eventually, she got so agitated that she sat down on the sand and said she wasn't going any further and she was very upset. And so, the mother decided to keep walking and the father agreed to take her back to the hotel. And when they got there, this is very interesting to see the deliberation take shape. He did a very brave thing, which was he walked up to one of the Marriott hotel employees and said, you're going to think I'm crazy, but my daughter seems to think that there might be a tsunami coming because the water is very shallow suddenly. And it just happened that there was a Japanese tourist standing next to them over hearing this. And he said, you know, she could be right because I heard there was an earthquake earlier today, Sumatra. And so, between this random group of people, they managed to muster up the courage to take action and they cleared that beach of people within the next few minutes, screaming to Tilly's mother to come back, which she did, and they got to a higher level of the hotel and no one died on that beach because of this 10-year-old girl but also because of the people around her. So that's a small example of things going right. So the third phase is what you might call the decisive moment, which is in this case where they cleared the beach, where you take action or in many cases, not, where you sort of see this shutting down, freezing, lethargy that is very common. And usually that decisive moment is really determined by what happened in the first two phases, but also by what has happened to you every day in your life until then. So I wanna talk a little bit about one example of almost everything going right with regards to building resilience in advance, something that we've heard a lot about today. Rick Rascorla ran security for Morgan Stanley Deed winner in the Trade Center and he was an interesting guy. He was born in the UK. I don't know why I keep having these British heroes in this talk, but anyway, he joined the US military because he wanted to fight the communists in Vietnam. And when he got there, he earned a silver star, a bronze star and a purple heart in battles that were memorialized in this book, a 1992 book. And actually that happens to be Rick on the cover. So as many people do, he left the military and joined the world of private executive security. And it was a frustrating job in some ways, but a job that he also took very seriously. So Morgan Stanley occupied 22 floors of Tower Two. It was the largest tenant. And that's, you know, 22 floors is like sort of a village unto itself. And after the 1988 bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Rick began to get very nervous about the World Trade Center being a terrorist target. And he had a tendency to really kind of obsess over these things, as friends of his will tell you. And so he invited a buddy of his to come do, who did counter-terrorism to come do a walkthrough of the Morgan Stanley offices and check out the vulnerabilities. And then his friend came and he did that. And when he got to the parking garage, he said, well, this is a no-brainer. You know, I would just drive a truck full of fertilizer through here. There's not very much security. And he and his friend wrote a report to the Port Authority in 1990, warning of this vulnerability. And they said suggesting various defenses that could be changed, some of which were expensive. And according to them, the Port Authority did not make those changes. The Port Authority did not answer my calls for comment on this point. Three years later, as we know, Ramsay Youssef drove a truck into the parking garage of the Port Authority, leading to the first terrorist attack on the World Trade Center, which was really a fiasco of an evacuation. If you remember reading about that, or if anyone was there at the time. And what happened was the stairwells were not well-pressurized. There was not enough auxiliary lighting. There was smoke in the stairwells. It took four hours to get everyone out. Very frightening for people. And also did a lot of damage, I think, as far as people's trust for each other and the organization. And Rick, of course, was very pissed off about this, as you might imagine. He was in his office when he felt the explosion sort of tremble up through the building. And he grabbed his walkie-talkie and his megaphone and all of his gear. And he went out into Morgan Stanley's open trading floor to begin the evacuation. And no one listened. Everyone ignored him, which infuriated him, obviously. And so after that experience, because he had predicted a very similar event, he had the credibility to change the way Morgan Stanley operated. And he also had the backing of some top people at Morgan Stanley, which obviously makes a big difference. So he realized at that point that all of Morgan Stanley's employees needed to be responsible for their own resilience, that they couldn't rely on him or on the Port Authority or on the NYPD or anyone else to save them. And so he started doing a lot of things that to this day do not usually happen, even in skyscrapers. So he started running Morgan Stanley employees through frequent surprise mandatory fire drills, which you can imagine how that went over with some of Morgan Stanley's high net worth bankers. And he did it anyway, because one of his other gifts was that he didn't really give a crap what you thought, which was a great asset to have in an emergency manager in some ways. So he would run people through these drills and he noticed something interesting. He noticed that people went more slowly than he would have expected. And so instead of just getting enraged at people, he did something very clever. He got a stopwatch and he started timing the employees to see how long it took them. He didn't make them go down all 73 flights, but importantly he did make them go down several flights of stairs, which again is very unusual, but he knew they had to have the experience. And when they didn't move fast enough, he told them they needed to move faster, and they did. And he would keep timing them and letting them know. And they didn't always like it and they made fun of him and his various marshals, the volunteers who wore the reflective vests and made sure everyone was out. But he did it anyway. He also recommended that Morgan Stanley move its headquarters to a low rise building in New Jersey because he was so convinced there would be another terrorist attack. But the firm's lease didn't end until 2006, so they declined to do that. And on the morning of 9-11, Rick heard an explosion and he saw tower one burning from his office window. A port authority official urged everyone to remain at their desks, but by then Rick had already decided that the evacuation needed to begin. So he grabbed his bullhorn and his walkie-talkie and his cell phone and he went out to begin ordering the evacuation and it had already begun because he had trained his employees in advance to be in charge of their own resilience. They already knew what to do even, and this is very unusual, a class of 250 stockbrokers in training who were there visiting. Because we know from the analysis of the World Trade Center evacuation in all disasters, of course, the people who were not, who were new for whatever reason, temps or visitors were much more delayed and getting out, right? And they were less familiar, they felt more passive, they didn't know where the stairwells were. But Rick had a rule, which is on your first day visiting Morgan Stanley, you had to be shown where the stairwells were. And they knew, because it was their second day. So the evacuation began and as one Morgan Stanley executive told me later, knowing where to go was the most important thing because your brain, at least mine, just shut down. When that happens, you need to know what to do next and this is my favorite part. One thing you don't ever want to have to do is to have to think in a disaster. And I think that goes for everybody from the president on down. You don't want to have to think in a disaster because you won't be good at it. Rick knew that the brain responded poorly to extreme fear and that you wanted to kind of keep it in the zone. And so in the stairwell, he did what he had done in Vietnam. When he felt like he needed to calm his men down by singing Cornish songs from his youth. So Morgan Stanley employees, many of them still remember this, seeing Rick standing in the stairwell with his megaphone and a couple of his security team singing in the stairwell during the evacuation. Army Major Robert Bateman later wrote about Rick singing in Vietnam, in Vietnam Magazine. And what he said was mostly he sang dirty songs that would make a sailor blush. Interspersed with the lyrics was the voice of command, impossible to disobey. His men forgot their fear, concentrated on his orders, and marched forward as he led them straight into the pages of history. Which I think you could sort of say about Vietnam and about what he did on 9-11. So the sweat is leaching through his jacket, it's very warm and one of the security team members tries to bring a chair out for him and he won't take it. In between songs, he called up his wife. There's a great love story there that James Stewart from the New Yorkers written a book about Rick Rascorla that I highly recommend. And they had met very late in life and it's a great story. But anyway, he called up his wife and he said, she was of course watching on CNN what was happening and was very distraught. And he said, stop crying. I have to get these people out safely. If something should happen to me, I want you to know I've never been happier. You made my life. And then a few minutes later, Rick had successfully evacuated 2,687 Morgan Stanley employees, which was quite a remarkable feat. That tower had by then been struck and that tower as we know would be the first to fall. And when he got to the bottom, he knew there were a couple of stragglers and given who he was, I think it's fair to say he probably would have had a hard time living with himself given his own identity if he hadn't turned around and gone back up, which is what he did. And he was last seen on the 10th floor heading upward and his remains have never been found. When the tower collapsed, only 13 Morgan Stanley employees, including Rick, were inside and the other 2,687 were safe. So I like to end with this story. That's a memorial to Rick that his wife and some friends had built at the National Infantry Museum in Georgia. But I like to end with this story because if we think about everything that you've heard today, I think a lot of it is something that Rick understood. He understood that we could do better if we trusted regular people with the information that they needed. He understood that we have to understand how the brain works. If we're going to prepare intelligently and build more resilient societies. He understood that people almost never panic. That in fact, the opposite is the problem, what the airlines call negative panic, not moving or moving slowly. But he also knew that there was great potential for improvement and that you could train people and lead people through those phases of denial and deliberation so that they would not have to think. And that's what he did. So I thank you all very much for listening to this story and thank you to New America for having me back to tell this story. It's been a pleasure.