 Call to order. This is the 7th regular meeting of the 2009 2010 Common Council As is customary our city clerk will read the quote of the evening. Thank you mayor All government and all private institutions must be designed to promote and protect and defend the integrity and the dignity of the Individual and that is the essential meaning of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights Thank You sue roll call, please Born here bulk He will be late Bowers Decker Gisha Hannah Heidemann Koth Kinnelsen Clayunas Montemay or Rinflaich Suric Vanderwheel Voo and Wongamon 15 present we have a quorum looking for approval of the minutes of the Last council meeting oh I'm very Let's do the Pledge of Allegiance first, and I think we'll have Alderman Hannah do that. How's that side? Good idea. I Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America And to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God Invisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank You mark and thanks for the reminder Now we're looking for approval of the minutes President boring Thank You, Mayor Ryan. I moved to approve the minutes from the last meeting We have a motion and a second under discussion The discussion all in favor say aye aye opposed motion carries Resignations attorney McLean Thank You mayor. This is a memo from Angela Payne the HR director I Guess from Tom pitch to Angela Payne advising that They're requesting a change to their representative on the health insurance committee Presently the committee members Mike Dietz and informing The city that he would be unable to complete his term and would like to replace him with John Bridges President boring. Thank You very Ryan. I moved to accept and file the resignation second motion in a second all in favor Opposed motion carries Mayor's appointments Turning clean this date at July 6th. They hereby submit the following appointment for your consideration John Bridges to be considered for appointments of the group health insurance committee to fill the unexpired term of Michael Dietz whose term expires on 430-09 signed by the mayor I Believe that I believe that lies over mayor. Is that a lies over? Yeah It does lie over thank you And on confirmation hereby submit the following appointment for your consideration Peter may or to be considered for appointments of the civil service commission to fill the unexpired term of Eldenburg Whose term expires 420 to 13? I guess this is one of the mayor's appointments as well. That also lies over and At least in my packet there was a Resume from Peter mayor. I don't know if all the council got that or not I believe that is probably on the back of the document on the back And now the confirmation say everybody submit the following appointments for your considerations to the sustainable Sheboygan task force Aaron Brault to replace Jim Halbert representative Sheboygan County government whose term expires on 426 2010 Amy Peterson to replace Aaron Brault private individual city resident whose term expires on 426 2010 Thomas Holton to replace Thomas Henning large business owner whose term expires on 426 2010 signed by the mayor motion to approve Alderman Boren motion to approve the appointments there Have a motion in a second under discussion all in favor I opposed motion carries public forum madam city clerk first this evening will be Jeff Schucho and Mr. Schucho, can you give me your home address, please? 2411 Camelot Boulevard And you will have five minutes, sir Thank you Mayor Ryan your honor Mrs. Richards and turning the clean council members and citizens I Wanted to speak this evening just briefly perhaps to Provide a little information in regards to the Blue Harbor going to the station and This is in reference to the recent Sheboygan Press article dirty birds For those of you have read that article chip level who's a district supervisor with the US Department of Agriculture's wildlife services program and WAP on Said there's no silver bullet for dealing with the birds He mentioned they can be scared away using pyrotechnic scarecrows and other harassment devices These hundred to a thousand year old tactics are what Green Bay was offered as a solution to their problem last year Result was birds were scattered all over the area and to neighbor in neighboring communities and what a mess it was This approach may sustain their budget, but it does nothing to solve the problem The long-term solution One of them that I've worked out is an option of my abatement programs This program was submitted to the USDA and To our legislative representative an accurate they were both given a copy of my programs to review The USDA said their copy must have been lost in the mail being returned to me along with additional information I had requested because I'm working on products now to take care of geese and Let's see Mr. Van Ackren's office told me he must have lost it and that was after I had mentioned to everyone Involved with this that I had provided those two that I did a study that cost $15,000 and there was some patent sensitive information in there. So Well being government entities, I guess I shouldn't have been too surprised Now on the other hand though senator live ham I I provided a copy to and he reviewed his copy and Returned it to me personally and reviewed it with me in a timely fashion Well, I was very impressed with a lot of what I've been hearing about senator live ham lately Right after the USDA's appearance here. I Noticed businesses here experienced a huge number of gulls showing up on their roofs And I don't know if they did a demonstration of abatement or or what happened But these are businesses that are contracted with me to keep their roofs clear because of the obvious obvious health concerns and Facility inspections that health officials That they must pass these inspections to stay in business The age-old tactics that were recommended to us here Really, I can tell you from experience stand no chance of competing with the programs that we've developed if Nothing else from an economic standpoint And I guess I'd be willing to demonstrate again that again to anyone interested On another note with the intramural football season now starting in July at Coana's Park I've had some parents come up to me already and say that this site is already a mess with bird droppings all over In the past The kids uniforms were covered with bird droppings from Head to toe the end of these games and I can tell you that is not a healthy situation especially since we've been made aware that This flying virus isn't really just a flying virus and it's being carried by these migratory birds The gulls in particular which are scavengers pick it up normally first and they just migrated here from Mexico No wonder we have the highest flu rate in the nation right now, Wisconsin that is That's about all I have on that right now. I just wanted to say the fireworks mayor. They were great They were fantastic with some of the best fireworks. I've seen in a long time And I'd like to commend the police chief to the police department down there did a really excellent job They were really good with everybody. The coverage was great. They covered each other really well And I guess that's all I have to say. Thank you very much for this time Thank you. Thank you, mr. Schucho if I may add we do have an upcoming meeting with the Department of Fish and Wildlife regarding the gulls on South pier especially because they are a problem and we need to do something about it. Thank you Next on the list is Pat Dugan Good evening Pat. Can I have your home address, please? 1954 North 3rd Street you want to get the mic right in front of you and You will have five minutes sir. Good evening. My name is Patrick Dugan I'm the vice president of the public works union asked me local 2039 and a long time resident and taxpayer here in the city of Sheboygan as a citizen of Sheboygan I have watched the quality of life diminish many of our services and things that we enjoyed Have either fallen by the wayside or been dramatically reduced our roads Park sewers Along with the rest of our infrastructures and dire need of maintenance and repair Unfortunately for all of us who love this city. We are faced with a large financial crisis Tonight you the older persons will be voting on a resolution called the star resolution Hoping to address the financial problems for now in the future According to this resolution Bill Bittner public works director was charged with reducing his budgets to try and address this problem His proposal if passed will dramatically impact the future of our city services in a very negative way All but eliminating the very thing that with taxpayers of Sheboygan pay taxes for There was also another proposal put forth last week Unfortunately at the last minute by the DPW union that deserves consideration We introduced it late because as of yet The union has not been given the chance to give our input in solving the budget crunch And we had no idea what mr. Bittner had in mind the director's proposal According to him will cut or reduce services substantially Ours will not All the services that your constituents are paying for will continue with minimal impact on the taxpayer It will also generate the savings that the star resolution called for Please seriously consider this proposal for the sake of Sheboygan's future We also look forward to sitting down with the city to help that solve the city's budget problems Thank you very much. That's all I have to say. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Dugan Next on the list of the Lee Montemay or and Lee, can you give me your home address, please 1015 lobin? And You will have five minutes, sir Thank You madam city clerk and mayor Ryan council members. Thank you for the opportunity and time to be heard tonight on the star resolution. I Think the resolution is somewhat confusing With wording that may be difficult to understand I'm all for saving monies and making our city departments more efficient But at some level you have to care about services and the underlying needs of people and Not get caught up in the public relations fight around the 2009 budget The resolution deals mostly with the 2009 budget and not the 2010 budget that should be worked on at this time The 2009 budget was approved in November of 2008 The 2010 budget process is outlining our city codes sections to 901 to 907 clearly directs That makes your budget is to be addressed now We've been through tough budgets concerns before In 2006 we start with a 3.6 million dollar shortage in our budget We survive that shortage with a good executive submitted budget and then tweaked by our talented council members without a tax increase It was also accomplished in 2007 2008 and 2009 That ladies and gentlemen is very impressive accomplishment by our city elected team and our talented department heads Those accomplishments point out good leadership and I congratulate all the individuals involved in that historical four-year con success The star resolution does mention that state statues regarding police and fire department, but clothing it does not say Their 2009 Approved budget cannot be changed take it out of other departments instead This ladies and gentlemen creates distrust There shouldn't be any sacred cow department in our city We need to treat all our city employees equally and with respect and Fairness they deserve When our city has an emergency all of our departments respond if needed they respond as a team effort as it should be My understanding is that some new state statues just passed or will be passed shortly Will mandate that the police and fire services budget for 2010 be no less than the 2009 budget this confirms my This confirms my concerns of employees not treated equally Our police and fire department make up 54% of our city's budget So this means it will always be locked into that number or possibly more There's no doubt that our obsolete is department software should continue to be upgraded as Approved in our 2009 budget as well as the assessor's software improvements I wish former IS director Tudor Lee could have continued his work in our city But we cannot blame an employee for an opportunity of battered himself and his family By thanking for the work he did while employed when our city's team. He showed us how obsolete Our IS department was and started the upgrading of this technology Bringing the city's ambulance service in house has proven to be a benefit to our city's taxpayers as a source of revenue for tax relief Utilize and our talented qualified experienced firefighters slash paramedics labor for is to be commended To my fellow union brothers and sisters I say remember 85% of ours of Sheboygan's 2009 budget is for salaries and benefits If you were making up your personal budget and came upon an 85% figure You would also be focused on that 85% item for cost reductions Two cases in point one Having a 12% pension plan using only city contribution is unheard of in the private sector Most pension private pension plans required employee to contribute at least 50% to make a 6 to 10% pension plan number 2 The unheard-up practice of unlimited banking of sick days and then not and not using them as sick days But rather as revenue after retirement is also not allowed by most private sectors Most private sectors will allow you accumulation of only 30 days and are lost upon retirement I challenge my union brothers. Would you like additional please go ahead? I challenge my union brothers and sisters to be a true union brotherhood and willing to share a wage freeze furlough or wage cut All employees can be retained if all are willing to work and share the pain of less money available Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Montemare next Next is Milton storm Melt would you please give me your home address? Yes, it's 1736 modern court, and that's in the city of Shebaulig and And you will have five minutes sir Thank you. I would like to thank Sue Richards and her department for allowing me to address this council on a very sensitive issue Congratulations to Mayor Ryan for restoring my trust in city government. I do challenge some of the new older persons to Assist us to move the Cheboygan in a more positive direction attending last week's committee of the whole was quite an experience it seems some emotions went rapid Frustration set in and even a few tempers may have flared up a bit I want to compliment Alderman Gisha and Alderman Corey bulk for their restraint candor and truthfulness Alderman Gisha had every right to show frustration When some citizens had very little to offer I Still have to speak to Alderman bulk to see if we both share the same theology of love After listening to the city clerk's proposal at the committee of the whole I felt it an obligation to respond to some of the negative comments set at that meeting Therefore instead of asking for a 1% decrease in the city clerk's office. I'm recommending a 1% increase for the coming year To make up that difference. I recommend that the fire department and public works departments find a way to Reduce their budgets by an additional one-half percent. I Really is by making such a suggestion. I will receive a lot of flack from the labor union personnel In my opinion, there are some employees in the departments in those departments including administrative personnel Who are being overpaid and receive lucrative benefits to be fair there are some in those departments who may be underpaid I? Found it more convenient to pay my water bill at the water department office I must admit that there are also some young ladies who could give the city clerk's office some very strong competition in niceness I've discovered that over 60% of my three month water bill is Collected by the water department for fire protection and for public works department by my calculation less than 40% of my water bill Goes to the water department unless they are of course considered public employees I was saddened that the provision of the previous council fade out the storm water fee. I Asked for no praise or glory nor do I expect any competition that my last name being storm. I recommend re-instuting those charges, but Remaining those charges as natural disaster water fees The only two persons that I know that can calm a storm are Jesus and Milton although others have tried with very limited success We have the power at the local level to again restore the city of Sheboygan as a signing city on the shores of Lake, Michigan Let us show some honest compassion to Sue Richards department and her employees who have gone beyond the call of duty Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Storm Last on the list is William Nye house This bill here. I don't see him and that's it Okay, thank you everybody for speaking at the public forum this evening We will now move on to our consent agenda president Oran Thank You, Mayor Ryan I make a motion to accept and file all our oaths and accept and adopt all our seas and pass all resolutions and ordinances, okay Motion and second this will be seven one through seven twenty five under discussion We'll take a roll Oran high Bowers Decker Gisha Hanna Heidemann Cough Kittleson Clowness Montemay or Rindflash Zurich Vanderwheel Voo and Wongerman 15 eyes Communications and petitions to be referred 726 727 please Be aware 727 will also be referred to the board of Parks and Forestry Report of officers to 728 through 745 to be referred Resolutions introduced three 7-46 by all the all the persons bout Kittleson Gisha Cough and Heidemann lifting the hiring freeze in order to hire a part-time crossing guard Looking for a motion President Boran Make a motion to put the resolution upon its passage We have a motion in a second under discussion Alderman Hannah Thank You mr. Mayor. Just curious does this require a just a simple majority Any further discussion? Roll call please Bowers Decker Gisha Hanna Heidemann Cough Kittleson Clowness Montemay or Rindflash Zurich Vanderwheel Voo Wongerman and Boran 15 eyes motion carries 7-47 By Alderman Alderpersons bout Kittleson Gisha Cough and Heidemann waving the residency requirement in order to hire two summer help lifeguards for the 2009 season Looking for a motion president Boran. Thank you, Mayor Ryan. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage We have a motion and a second Under discussion Alderman Hannah Thank You mr. Mayor just if somebody could explain to me Whether we had contacted the YMCA north and south swimming team. How was the search conducted to fill these spots? Alder Vice President Gisha I Don't believe north-south swimming team or the YMCA or the Red Cross were Contacted however, I believe in the future. They will be contacted Thank You Vice President Gisha any further discussion Alder person Kittleson Any further discussion roll call please Decker Gisha Hannah Heidemann Cough Kittleson Clowness Montemayor Rindflash Suric Vanderwheel Voo Wongamun Boran and Bowers Nine eyes six nose motion carries 7-48 By Alderpersons Gisha Clowness Boran Montemayor and Heidemann amending the 2009 general fund budget and authorizing the acquisition and Implementation of new assessment software Vice President Gisha Thank You, Mayor Ryan City Assessor Dave Let's see is here this evening. Yeah, he is here because I would like to ask for suspension of the rules And I thought he'd be able to give us an explanation. You'd like Assessor, let's give you speak on this. If I may please we need to have a motion to suspend we need a Motion to suspend If if it's excuse me if it's proper to have a explanation before the motion to suspend if not, I'd be happy to make the motion to suspend Motion to suspend motion to suspend and to open the floor to Director let's we have a motion to suspend in a and a second It's under discussion and we have a motion to open the floor to Is there any objection to the suspension first of all Alderman Rindflash I with hold my objection until such time I can hear an explanation Thank you Just yeah city Assessor Lutsky Hi Thank you for the opportunity to come up here and address you What I wanted to just talk about regarding this is that typically we have a city ordinance that I was made aware of earlier today that I didn't really understand and Apparently the ordinance in most cases there's a purchasing procedure and After reading this I understand why it's been written in that purchasing Commodities if you're purchasing tires vehicles probably even computers these days being a commodity This purchasing procedure is excellent and It allows for Exceptions and that's what we're here to talk about right now the purchasing procedure There's an item B and it says all purchases shall be made in accordance with one of the following procedures and then it says Except as otherwise provided by resolution of the common counsel So that's what we're talking about right here right now and the reason I'm here is in most cases the the authority in purchasing is Pretty much at the hand of the purchasing agent But in some cases when you're looking at software such as I am It's not a commodity and it really shouldn't be At the hand of the purchasing agent rather it should be at the hand of the department head who has to use the software It's a significant decision and you have to understand the business process I've been here for a little over two years I spent at least the first year learning the business process and I've spent the last 12 months doing my job as well as investigating other software solutions With a full understanding of the business process a purchasing agent could never do that I mean, they're doing other things It takes a great deal of effort to do this and in doing that, you know being the department head I keep an eye on cost and The the software that we are looking at implementing is the most widely used software in the state It it's the software that allows for the best return on investment Which is you know, I think it was somewhere above a hundred and fifty percent after three years or maybe a hundred eighty percent so it's a good return on investment to the city and I just wanted to come up and make you know a comment on that because there's been some folks Thinking that I was trying to undermine the purchasing process and that's not true at all There's a need for a purchasing agent, but not in a case when it comes to a complicated product like this I also gave a presentation the finance committee and feel that The I should be held accountable for what I'm doing in other words If I move forward with the with the software if the software doesn't work properly or if I don't do it to budget I don't do the schedule then without a doubt that I you know some there should be something done in terms of me or my position Up to and including termination So I do take this very seriously. My department takes this very seriously So I just felt that you know, I think it would be good for me to at least address this In front of you tonight, so thank you If I if I may add also this same software is used by 26 of the 28 municipalities in our county So it's it's not like it's a it's a some very specialized software just for our city It's it's it's got a proven track record. So Alderman rent flesh Alderman Bowers, excuse me Thank you Could you give us a cost estimate of this and was it previously put in a budget or is there money set aside for this? Vice president Gisha Thank you This is not a budgeted item It became as part of the review and overview of the star proposal looking at having department heads look forward and beyond 2009 to 2010 It was obvious. There was some efficiencies with some investment in this case investing 84,907 dollars and the efficiencies meaning savings being paid back within 20 months so after 20 months at all falls on your income side and You never re reoccur those expenses. So Director Letzky did a extremely detailed presentation I believe to the mayor's office and then it was made its way to finance and it was a Was an impressive it's the first time I've ever seen refer return on investment on a proposal in the city ever and it really is an Important feature in what drives us in the future and if I may add the the savings in the future will come through Savings in cost of labor So that's that's the the purpose of this software package is to operate more efficiently I'll remember it flesh Thank You mr. Mayor Under the topic of discussion of suspension. I do not have objection on that I also think that any further discussion on this should be after a motion is made I don't think we actually have a motion yet after suspension yet So I'll wait for that before I bring it me okay any further discussion on suspension of the rules If there are none may we take a roll call it was a unanimous they didn't object So now we need a motion to pass the resolution. Oh, okay Looking for a motion to pass the resolution. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage Have a motion in a second under discussion on passing this resolution No discussion roll call, please Gisha. Hi Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Clayunas Montemay or Rindflash Suric Vanderwheel Voo Longamon foreign Bowers and Decker 15 eyes motion carries 749 through 753 to be referred report of committee 7 7-54 by finance submitting the fire department ambulance service financial activity report for 2008 Generated by the Sheboygan finance department Vice president Gisha, I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted, please We have a motion in a second under discussion No discussion all in favor say aye opposed Okay, let's take a roll. Okay. We'll have a roll call on that please Hannah Heidemann Koff Kittleson Clayunas Montemay or Rindflash Suric Vanderwheel Voo Longamon Boran Bowers Decker and Gisha. Hi 12 eyes 3 nose motion carries 7-55 by law and licensing recommending denying beverage operators license number for 2 4 3 based upon the applicant's Ineligibility for the license President Boran Thank You, Mayor Ryan. I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted We have a motion just in a second under discussion under discussion your honor is David Payne here tonight Mr. Payne is here We're called Mr. Payne up and just a couple moments mayor. I'd like to make a couple comments first first of all This is this is a report that that the law and licensing committee got from the Assistant City Attorney Chuck Adams. Mr. Payne revealed a 1988 conviction for delivery of controlled substances which make him ineligible for the license He also revealed a 2000 I second number of traffic violations And this was the note to the committee last Tuesday night if he hasn't Officially withdrawn his application by the time of the meeting you should deny the license now this Before we hear from mr. Payne Whenever there's a felony conviction It's a state statute that makes the applicant ineligible for the license. This is not a local ordinance so You know if we were mr. Payne was not at it was not at a committee meetings on advice from the attorney because He's ineligible for the license however Even if we thought that mr. Payne was the best applicant in in shabuagan for a for a license Because of the state statute we can't grant it because he has a felony conviction So with that I'll open up the floor to mr. Payne if you'd like to make comments to the council if I may first I'd like attorney McLean to speak on this Do you have anything? Sure I guess to echo somewhat the President Boren's comments under section one twenty five oh four sub five of the Wisconsin statutes Qualifications for licenses and permits for natural persons Under subsection be criminal offenders no license or permit related to alcohol beverages may subject to one eleven three twenty one Three twenty two or three thirty five be issued under this chapter to any person who has habitually been a law offender Or has been convicted of a felony unless the person has been duly pardoned the Exceptions there one eleven three twenty one three twenty two and so forth deal with the employment discrimination statutes and I Cite section One eleven three thirty five isn't well to begin with one eleven three twenty two Starts out subject to one eleven thirty three to thirty six. It's an act of employment discrimination to do any of the following refused to hire et cetera et cetera based on and one of the things is based on Arrest or conviction record if unless the Activity is substantially related to the license activity one eleven three thirty five is entitled arrest or conviction record exception special cases and subsection One c s there and says not withstanding one eleven three twenty two It's not employment discrimination because of conviction record to revoke suspend or refuse to renew a license or permit under chapter 125 and that's the alcohol beverage licensing statute if the person holding or applying for the license or permit has been convicted of one or more of the following One manufacturing distributing or delivering a controlled substance or controlled substance analog Possessing with intent to manufacture or distribute or deliver a controlled substance or controlled substance analog Then a couple other subsection so Apparently and I didn't see the I Looked on C cap this afternoon, but This conviction goes back to 88 so it wasn't on C cap, but I I'm assuming it's a felony conviction But even if it's not felony conviction These exceptions To the employment discrimination laws make it clear that it's not employment discrimination to refuse to revoke suspend or refuse to renew a license or permit on those bases And as I said Qualifications also preclude a convicted felon unless they've been pardoned and frankly, I don't know Mr. Payne circumstances. I don't know if he's been pardoned I don't know if as I say if it was a felony, but perhaps Mr. Payne could address Thank you attorney McLean. Would you like to address the council at this time? Mr. Payne, please come up here You can kind of twist the microphone that it's close it. I just I just um I'm kind of confused on the whole thing For 13 years after the conviction in 1988 I had a active bartending license in the state of in the city of Sheboygan and I was honest Straightforward bartender from 12 years. I made kind of a career out of it And nobody ever said a word about renewing or not giving me a bartending license for all that time. I How many people came into a bar that I served alcohol too safely went home safely I took care of them while they were there made sure they didn't overdrag and do anything wrong Now when I do need the job the most when I do need the license the most I'm being refused I feel that's very unfair. It's 21 years ago. I'm honest Hardworking citizen and I understand the laws. I understand what they're about and everyone makes mistakes. It's obvious to that Otherwise, I wouldn't have had a bartending license for 13 years when I wasn't supposed to have one I guess I I don't know what else to say. It's pretty much it Anybody on the council have any questions for mr. Payne? Alderman Bowers, thank you Since you had a license for 12 years directly following the conviction All right, and you gave that license up. I did I moved out of state for And I had a bartending license in California. I was out there California Are there different degrees of felonies or is a felony a felony and that's that's it's very unfair to me I think also my my I'm being looked at as a criminal I'm not a criminal. I'm not a violent person. I'm not I shouldn't be compared to these people at all. I'm I've been straightforward with everybody I do everything a law abiding citizen, and I I don't deserve to be treated this way when I need to make a living myself Is there and I and I just also I did push forward for the the pardon I Forwarded my paperwork to the governor for the pardon because I need it also because it's really difficult to get a job with this on my record So the way the law is written. We can't even make an exception Turning McLean, how could they have how could they have made an exception for 12 years directly following the conviction? Can hold on just second mr. B. Turning McLean. Well, I do know this I've been around for 24 years. This wasn't always the law. I believe this I Don't have all the legislative history here at sites Various changes to the law. I know this was changed somewhere along the along the lines so it very well could have been that This prohibition on manufacturing distributing or delivering controlled substances Convictions may not have been in the statutes in 1988 or 90 89 or 90 There were changes in 93 95 97 2001 I believe this has been in place for at least 10 years, but I couldn't tell you exactly when the Statute was amended Thank you attorney McLean Alderman Hannah Thank You mr. Mayor question for attorney McLean, and I guess it really gets back to all the person powers question Is there anything we can do? to Make an adjustment in this case or is the law pretty cut and dry well the Qualifications for licenses and permits does say That It is a disqualifier if the person's been convicted of felony has not been pardoned for that felony and It's clear to me that the legislative intent on the provisions for Saying it's not appointment discrimination to look at those sorts of convictions on alcohol licensing is that the Legislature feels that they are connected So I would I guess my short answer would be no on a person playlist Thank You mayor Sue Richards a city clerk. Is there something that you understand about this? Why this person would have been? Okay years ago and now not I see your head nodding well, mr. Payne, and I've had a discussion and What I am anticipating happened is The law has not always been that way. However, if you go back in history To the law and licensing which used to be J&L committee if you go back in history the committee was much less How do I put this nicely strickle Not even strict thorough Right now we have a law and licensing committee and have for the last handful of years a Very in-depth committee that looks at everything and I'm afraid that probably during the time when he was granted a license The procedures were not nowhere near the same We do like seven or ten records checks now Virtually nothing was done then and I'm guessing that's what's happened and it's unfortunate Because he has had one for many many years, but it slipped through the cracks and it should have been caught at that point But it wasn't I Did give him the paperwork to you know do the pardon the governor's pardon thing, but unfortunately he's been caught in a really Unfortunate set of circumstances all the person wants to be on Thank You mayor Ryan How long does it take to get a pardon? I'm sure you would clean any idea six months six years That's totally discretionary on the governor's part I was told they'd do it like twice a year. He does it, but it's it's only a couple They don't do very many each year so it could take up to five years it does the fact that that you're having difficulty getting employment or the fact that This is being you're being refused employment for an old old old Mistake help you to get your pardon. It's I don't know I know I know that I'm not being refused work as in a bar because I don't have a license I have jobs in bars, but I can't bartend alone and those are the major hours I need right those are the hours where they need me there the most is when I'm there by myself because I'm more Responsible to the next person that does have a bartending license who's a lot less responsible than I am It's very difficult to put a man out of work That has been working that is Extremely difficult to do. Thank you as the gentleman indicates Can act as a bartender without a license as long as he's under direct supervision of Someone who is licensed Thank you, man, right So every year Our law and licensing committee takes this list of bartenders and if they incur a felony during the year They are turned down or is it just a renewal process? It's not all felonies Not all felonies make them disqualified for a license. There's only certain that attorney McLean just read its Delivery manufacturer of a controlled substance. It's not all felonies Yeah, it's felonies that substantially relate to the license activity And yes, you got to make a value judgment as to what relates to the license activity but what I'm here to tell you is The legislature in my view has made a pretty clear connection between not being employment discrimination to Refuse the issue a license alcohol beverage license for Manufacturing distributing or delivering controlled substance when you've got a conviction of that sort So I I think the legislature is saying they are connected May I make another statement certainly on the arresting officer of the time of the arrest in 1988 He's no longer on the police force because he has been terminated from the police department of Manitowoc because he used Unlawful ways of entrapment and he's been kicked off the net, you know that I don't know if that has any bearing I wouldn't think so because I mean basically I mean you were convicted so that's I understand that You'd have to reopen the whole case on that and I wouldn't Maybe this is not related to it, but let's say we vote to give him a license Do we go to jail the council or what happens? You know it does seem to me grossly unfair that he had a license for X amount of years and now because he Let his license lap of laps when he moved out of state that you know He was good to bartend for 13 years, but now he can't but I guess the rules rules It does seem very unfair especially when he came to the law and licensing committee and admitted what he had done Which normally we have people in front of the law and licensing committee and the council that do not That do not state their offenses or is it otherwise president board? Thank you Mr. Payne did not appear before the committee But that was on the advice of attorney Adams because of the felony conviction, but he did put it on his app He put it on as he did truthfully fill out his application. Yes, there was so I was told not to attend that meeting right All the person wants a beer Thank you again, mayor Attorney McLean, so the state is saying that of control substance Conviction relates directly to tending bar Well to licenses issued under the alcohol beverage licensing statute, which includes Bartender's licenses. Yes. In other words, he can tend bar Right, but he can't be licensed to 10 bar. He has to be with the licensed bartender. Thank you. Thank you You know the obvious connection The legislature doesn't want convicted felons who are distributing controlled substances Licensed behind bars tendon bar for the Concern that they're going to be dealing drugs at the tavern Do we have any further questions for mr. Payne? Thank you, mr. Payne. Thank you. Any further discussion? Have a roll call, please Hi to men Would you like a clarification on what you're voting? The motion is to accept and adopt the report of committee and the report of committee is to deny the applicant His license so an I vote would be to deny All right, cut Kittleson Clayunas Montemay or Rindflash, I'm sorry. Thank you, sir. Okay, Vander wheel Voo Wongamun Boran Bulk Bowers no Decker Gisha and Hannah 13 eyes three nose motion carries 7-56 by the committee of the whole recommending approval of star program proposals from the public library in Sheboygan, transit Looking for a motion We have a motion and a second under discussion No discussion will take a roll call, please Kittleson Clayunas Montemay or Rindflash, sir Vander wheel Voo Wongamun Boran Bulk Decker, I'm sorry. Bowers Decker Gisha Hannah and Heidemann 15 eyes one no motion carries 7-57 by the committee of the whole recommending approval of star program proposals from the mayor's office finance department city attorney City clerk human resources city planning and city development and the department of public works Vice president Gisha if city clerk Richards could clarify the Suggested amendment does that need to be brought up at this time? No, okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Okay. We are still looking for a motion motion to approve We have a motion in a second under discussion Alderman Rindflash Thank you, Mr. Mayor I'm assuming that the amended this proposal is that's going to come up later on is going to deal with public works department Just clarification. Okay My initial motion was going to actually pull out that Department of Public Works for a separate vote Compared to the rest of them. However, since there will be an amendment coming forth I will not make that motion this time and we'll discuss the members later. Very good. Thank you for the discussion Alderman Bowers Thank you, Mayor. I Believe that was my question to what I would just like for clarification We will be voting on the dollar amount in this amendment, right? We cannot change the dollar amount But we can change the procedure or the We are voting basically I believe it will be on the timing of the Implementation for the Department of Public Works correct It's later, right that is on that is later right now you are voting on the whole package as is But there is an amendment coming forth regarding the Department of Public Works and the timing of the implementation Regarding the Department of Public Works All right, any other further discussion regarding Alderman Hatter Because I I think a lot of us got a ton of phone calls at home What will happen was 771 my assumption is if that passes there'll be a referral to Public Works and at that point we can have further discussions And I know most people at home were sensitized to the drop site and those were suggestions of the Department head They'll be further discussed at the Public Works Committee on Thursday So really that the procedure now is first that star and then the referral of the follow-up item I guess comes to public works the document wouldn't because it will have passed perhaps But the topic can be brought up it comes to public works Thank You Alderman Hannah next we have president born Thank You Mayor Ryan This is just a housekeeping thing that perhaps the city clerk can clean up under city planning under that item When the vote was taken it says 12 eyes and four nays There are only 15 people present and I looked at the other ones and they all they all total 15 But for some reason that vote tally is incorrect So just for housekeeping for the record you might know well might one I thought it's not going to change the vote No, I've got the roll calls here. Thank you It might be the person that took the minute It could be operator air thank you president boring Alderman sir Thank you mayor. I'm going to I'm going to vote no for this program because I think in a hole It's it's it's got to be good mares, but I think we're putting up the car before the horse I would refer to see the effect of the star program before approving what the star program is going to be. Thank you Thank you alderman sir all the first amount of mayor Thank You Mayor Ryan. I do believe this is simply the report of the committee the actual Vote on whether or not to implement is coming up at 764 Very good. Thank you Alderman buck Change your mind All right any further discussion roll call, please kittleson clientess Montemay or Rinfleshe Sirak Vander wheel rule Longamon Born Bowers Decker Gisha Hannah Heidemann and cut 14 eyes to nose motion carries ordinances introduced 10 7-58 by Alder persons boring bulk Bowers Decker Gisha Hannah Heidemann cut Kittleson clientess Vander wheel Voo and long a man just about everybody that was there Section 3 of general ordinance number 75-05-06 so as to reduce the city attorney's salary for the balance of calendar year 2009 Looking for a motion president born Thank You mayor Ryan Ask for suspension on this please We have a motion in the second for suspension of the rules The reason for suspension your honor if this passes tonight this would go into effect I believe For the first payday in July so that's why we need to act on this tonight if it's if it is to pass any Opposition to suspension of the rules Okay Do we have a motion we need a motion to be we need a motion to pass Motion to put the the general ordinance ordinance upon its passage We have a motion in a second under discussion Turning McLean No comment Vice President Gisha, I don't I don't profess to be able to speak for attorney McLean, but I think on behalf of the citizens of Sheboygan and this council a Thank you for the gracious manner in which you Handled this is an order. I didn't want this to go without that being said by someone Thank You vice president Gisha and I too concur to explain to the public what happened here is attorney McLean's office He would have to have laid off a member of his very small staff in order to meet the star resolution So instead he has decided to take a pay cut himself in order to meet that meet those numbers So he should be commended as such Any further discussion? Have a roll call please clients Montemay or RIN flash sir Vandereel Voo Longman Born Bowers Decker Gisha Hanna Heidemann Koff and Kittleson 16 eyes motion carries matters laid over 11 6-46 Communication number 13-09-10 submitting a communication from Aaron Balt program specialist for the non-motorized Transportation pilot program along with the results from the bike and walk to work week County wide public employer mileage challenge And the Sheboygan County's let's get physical 2009 National Employee Health Fitness Day results and for a motion to All their person Kittleson. Thank you mayor. I move that the communication be accepted and placed on file Motion in a second under discussion all in favor Opposed motion carries Other matters authorized by law 7-59 is referred to special committee on risk management 760 and 761 all referred 7-62 Resolution by Alder Alder person client is authorizing the mayor to execute a community video tour book agreement Vice President Kisha may I may I ask that this also be referred to a salary grievance committee? I mean party me to IT steering committee It lies over. Okay. That was lied over, but you had to be referred You wanted to be referred you'd like it to be referred to the IS steering committee, please under discussion It will go to the IS steering committee 7-63 we will hold for 7-73 We will take those two together 7-64 is referred to finance 7-65 Through 7-70 are all dealing with risk management Issues Alderman ours Thank you, Mayor right I Move that to be ported committee be accepted and adapted for item 765 through 770 Thank You all We have a second you okay. Sorry about that Okay 765 through 770 we have a motion in the second all in favor opposed Motion carries Now we have 771 in RC by the committee of the whole recommending passing the substitute of subsections of resolution number 6-0 9-10 as amended in order to add the last paragraph after 2009 with the Department of Public Works to begin implementation no later than August 20th 2009 and One the substitute of subsections of resolution of the same by Alderman Gisha Hannah and born establishing the 2009 start program and directing all specified department heads of the city of Sheboygan to prepare and implement a 1% to 3% reduction in their current 2009 budgets for a motion to accept and adopt Vice President Gisha, thank you a great honor. I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted and the substitute of the subs of resolution number 6-0 9-10 as amended also be passed and Put on file Period pretty good job That wasn't that easy. It's pretty good Under discussion. We need a second. Oh We're looking for a second also We have a second under discussion all the person play on us Thank You mirror In terms of the change in the resolution and the amendment and giving the Department of Public Works a semester time for implementation I hope that the public works hears from a lot of citizens We have been hearing from a lot of citizens We're going to the we're going to drop off site condition of city infrastructure streets Parks that kind of thing and I hope that this this summertime between now and August August 20th That we do have our ears open and the Department of Public Works especially is creative I think there are some citizens who have some good ideas and in terms of saving money at terms of alternative ways of doing this and I think we need to be opened weird and very So attentive to what people have to say and there's some people that want to speak two weeks from now Couldn't couldn't get on the agenda tonight who want to speak to this very issue. So I hope we are receptive Thank you. Thank you all the person cloud is if I may add also between now and August 20th We will we are diligently working on our insurance offering for next year We will have some labor negotiations between now and then and Hopefully we can find some true cost savings and those Alderman Gisha Thank you. I want to just note the That public works is being changed for a couple of reasons to August 20th One is has to do with union contracts and dealing with our part-time summer help would have been incredibly disruptive But the second is Alderman Hanna alluded to about 40 documents ago Public Works Committee has the ability and now they have the time if this passes The ability to deal with the drop-off site in another way There's many things that are done in the drop-off site like oil and batteries that could be dropped off someplace else So maybe we maybe there are options and this is a great opportunity for the Public Works Committee to step up and say hey We've got another alternative. We got another way of doing this yet still providing the taxpayers with the savings So this doesn't just cut the issue off. Nobody's closing the drop-off site tomorrow Nobody would have closed it the next day or the next day But now it gives I think the committee a great opportunity to have input up through August 20th So another month or so of diligent work. So hopefully that can be solved and I think it can we have a very talented Public Works Committee Thank You Vice President Gisha Alderman Bowers Thank You Mayor Ryan Like the rest of us. I have received numbers of email phone calls and I wish people would contact their Alderman or people and tell them what their suggestions are I've received some very good Suggestions and I welcome any Further suggestions now we have what two weeks to come up with something No, we haven't till August 20 gives us about six weeks That's when we vote on right so it has to be done That's a within four or five weeks Okay, so anyway, the citizens keep keep his suggestions coming and I myself will be attending public works And adding my two cents, and I hope everybody else does thank you Thank you Alderman Bowers. You know if I may add on the entire star resolution. This is not a painless matter by any means However, it's it's something that's necessary You know, we can't wait until 2010 and all of a sudden say our whole of the our budget hole is this big This is being proactive rather than reactive. It's preparing for next year This resolution can save us up to a million dollars We're all of a sudden our two point three million dollar hole just went down to one point three million dollars for next year And as we can get through some contract negotiations, etc. I realize some savings in our in our health care Hopefully we can can can balance our balance our budget and that's that's the entire goal one way or the other we will We have no choice. We're not like Washington. We can't You know we can't print money and I think it's the intention of this council not to raise taxes So one way or the other we're going to balance it. I Appreciate appreciate everybody's work on this and the cooperation of all of our employees. This is nothing that anybody wants to do I don't want to do it. I don't think anybody here does nobody takes delight in it but it has to be done now in order to Get through 2010 and hopefully look forward to 2011 All the person clowness. Thank you mayor I agree with what you said It was unusual in some of the calls that I received that some people said they would be willing to raise taxes I just say that I Just heard it and I just say that there is a sentiment that maybe we're going as deep as we can go and that That's them that might be the next step. I'm not saying what my opinion is at this point But there are some people saying we're scraping the bottom of the barrel. So thank you appreciate that comment All of them about thank you, mr. Mayor, and I guess I'd take a little different vent in that this is a very popular issue It's a very popular site very easy to use. I would suggest or Contribute that I lived all over because of my military years And I've lived in towns where the in the taxes were an awful lot lower and they come and get the grass clippings And they come and get the sticks and the bush pieces. So again You know what? We feel pretty like the world might end if suddenly we had to do something different with our grass clippings But there are a lot of other solutions out there some of which are a lot better And what the signal that I hope this sends is not that we're scraping the bottom of what the taxpayers are willing to live with Put up with with their city services Hopefully what it may be is a teachable moment where if the public works committee and the public works director have identified that as being a Practice that's so inefficient that the best thing we can do is shut it down and let Commercial people let people start a business where you take your grass for that that would be more efficient for the citizens And would turn out to be cheaper than having to raise their taxes I just I guess I just get really frustrated when the answer is either we got to do it the way We've always done it or we have to raise taxes There are a lot of great ideas out there where you can have what you want and pay less And I guess I just hope that people would be open to that. Thank you, Mr. Thank your ultimate bulk next we have all the person kettleson Thank you mayor, and I guess I just have to reiterate as well We've heard from so many people and as I said when we sat at the transit meetings that the sentiment was please Don't cut the services. I'll pay the extra to keep it going I and I know you know we don't want to do that to people But we have to come to the table all of us and and come up with some ideas and ways that we're going to do this as It's been said some creative ways. We've got to find a way to keep these services going and Satisfying everybody, but that means everybody our union people our department heads our our citizens our common counsel Everybody we've got to work this out, and I think we can I really believe we can do it without cutting service to our citizens Thank you all the person kettleson, and we have alderman wangaman Thank You mr. Mayor. I hear from my constituents Comments very similar to the ones that he heard tonight But I've also heard a great fear out there people are afraid that sheboygan is going to go down the hill I got a really great letter from a man who said that he's lived in the city for 70 some years as I have I've lived here 74 years now, and I fear that the sheboygan. We once knew we're going to lose Are we throwing out the baby with the bathwater? We seem to be absolutely terror stricken of the idea of raising taxes at all And I hear people out there say look be reasonable. I can't run my home on the same amount of money every year I don't expect the city to do it. I don't expect them to be wasteful I don't expect them to be inefficient, but if the city comes back at us with a small tax increase We could understand that as long as we can maintain our services, and there's a fear of this out there people wonder How can this work? How can we? Maintain the same budget amount year after year without raising taxes when everything goes up. I Kind of wonder that myself, and I I hate to see some of the services that we have out there Disappearing and waning away the closing of our ice-getting rinks their reduction of snow plowing things of this nature I know of course if you close ice-getting rinks the city isn't going to crumble up and blow away, but these are all You know little quality of life things that made sheboygan what it is and We could never go back home I mean we'll never get pregnant to build a store on either in Wisconsin and have Friday night Sound town like we used to that day has gone But people don't like to see all these things disappear and they I've talked to many of them that are willing to pay for it either Through user fees or even a reasonable tax increase And it seems to be a terror for this committee to say hey maybe we do have to raise taxes just a little bit and People I think would accept it they would not storm city hall with torches and ropes over their shoulders, you know and So it's something that has to be considered They considered What was mentioned that perhaps we should have a user fee for the drop off site All kinds of things are under consideration, but I hear that from from people out there Even Sunday, I dropped in at the hardware store to pick up a few nuts and bolts and three people had me in the corner You know waiting their arms and I was a little worried because we were near where the hammers are and But anyway Not to treat this lightly because it's a very serious problem And I understand the work that all our conditions committees and stuff are doing on this But I I think we've got to look at everything here and at some point. We've got to see okay enough We're not going to cut your wagon down anymore. I've seen Some cities where they do that and I rocked it up at the committee at a hole But I don't I don't think that's a road that our constituents want to go either Thank you. Thank you all to be one of them and Without being in danger of taking over this conversation, but you know, I was not I did not run for this office to raise taxes In my opinion Our way to get out of this situation is to grow our way out of it not to tax our way out of it And I fully intend to go that route now Of course, I don't have a vote on it the common council does if the common council decides to raise taxes We're raising taxes myself. I won't agree with it This is a temporary thing here. This is not a permanent thing a couple years down the road if we grow our tax base We get more money coming into the city We get more people moving to the city and it's done by providing jobs for people. It's done by getting getting plants here It's done by getting companies here This is not that we're going to hold a line on taxes forever and we're going to be broke for the rest of our lives here We're going to continue to shrink our city government But sometimes the best efficiencies are realized through necessity and that's the situation. We're in right now We're going to be forced to be efficient because we're going to have no choice So in with that I will speak no more on this subject, but everybody else is more than welcome to vice president Gisha Thank you, and I commend you for your comments on that Just because we don't do the things the same way doesn't mean we can't do them So I think that was kind of the echo of Alderman Bach There are alternatives to doing things slightly differently that then can Be less expense for the city. I do know that budget times like this You tend to look at things that never would ever be looked at before and I think mayor Ryan That's what you're talking about and it with crisis comes efficiency and I think this is a time for us to look at that and I just wanted to Responding to all of them and wongam and on the finance committee agenda Next week for the finance committee. We're going to have discussion discussion only on 2010 budget and potential budget scenarios and resolutions so to gather more input from from citizens and councilmen So if people have ideas Keeping in mind we can only raise taxes. I believe 3% this year which would amount to like 400 grand 450 grand which won't solve our problem Raising taxes will not solve our problem And nobody really it's hard to make the city attractive long-term with growth by saying Hey, we got the highest tax rate in the state and gosh turn it We have the highest paid city employees and the most city employees than anybody else in the state You sell your city with efficiencies and low taxes and a great efficient workforce and I think we do have a great efficient workforce in the city and I do think it's getting kind of thin and Maybe lightning will strike by some people think lightning will strike But I also believe that we're probably down to the end of From an efficiency standpoint on a gross level when it comes to the Department of Public Works. That's right I don't think we can a they always feel they're a target and I think for a lot of good reasons They were I think that's just about over so now we need the next wave of ideas This does save about a million dollars But four hundred thousand dollars this year and a million dollars next year But like Mayor Ryan said we still need to find one point three one point four million And that's before we look at bonding for the things that do sell a city like roads and sewers and Stormwater sewers and great sidewalks and neighborhoods that just gets us even we have to find more to bond for that So I agree with all the argument We need to be a great city again And we're not going to do it without getting back to the bonding for infrastructure And that's what we wanted to do. Thank you vice-president Kisha. We now have Alderman Rindfleisch Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I guess to echo some of the comments I've heard about budget fixes and props raising taxes and I have heard those same comments, too I've been laid off since April my wife works at Thomas. She will be laid off and in this year I've already myself a pay cut of six percent for what job I do have left that being an alderman job I can't afford to raise in taxes next year nor can I expect anybody else in a very small situation There's a lot of people in the city in the same situation as well I can guarantee you if we both are fortunate to find jobs in this town, it won't be the same way as we were getting before So yes, the cost of running a city does go up, but my income has not it will probably go down So I cannot afford the same thing and I cannot expect anybody else in the city to afford the same thing as well So I know it's on the table people are talking about it But it will be without my vote and yes, the council does vote on the budget mayor. You do have a veto I'll keep that in mind Thank you Alderman Rindfleisch Very nice to know even though I didn't know that before thanks We now have Alderman Hanna who we haven't heard from 20 minutes Couple things as Alderman Gisha pointed out the star resolution saves about 400,000 this year about a million bucks next year Still leaves us short by about a million three He also brought up an interesting point on bonding. We've got infrastructure projects to do You do not want to go to the credit agencies with a 14% unemployment rate Because once you get downgraded with your bond ratings, it takes you years to get those back so as as mayor Ryan said times will get better, but we've got a buyer time and all the person Rindfleisch and The other 14% of the people right now that wish they had jobs can't afford a tax increase Take your Alderman Hanna We don't have Alderman Bob. Thank you, Mr. Mayor The Alderman from the first district wanted some ideas on how we could save money. I have one Why don't we ask the police chief and the fire chief to get involved in contributing to how they can do things more efficiently? But we can't do that because the governor that Wisconsin just sent to Madison has signed a document Along with the Assemblyman we sent to Madison along with the senators we sent to Madison saying Municipalities you're not smart enough to decide how to structure your city You can't decide what level of public protection and safety is right for you I'm gonna sign a piece of paper saying you can't touch those budgets So it makes it frustrating for people who want to help out my good friend from the first district when the good governor says We can't thank you. Thank your Alderman bulk and finally we have president Boren Thank you, your honor This this predicament this predicament that we're in and I agree with with Alderman bulk goes back to Madison First of all with with coming up with this idea that all municipalities around the state All school boards all counties have to make good on the state retirement fund Because of the losses in the stock market I've lost a lot of money a lot of other people have lost money in the stock market and the retirements Nobody is going to refund ours The initial figure that I saw that it's going to cost us next year is $300,000 That compounds over five years to about 1.6 million dollars That was money that we that we have no idea where we're going to where we're going to get that money So for example, if we have a city employee that's making one hundred thousand dollars a year The taxpayers fund that retirement fund for that employee 100% at about 10.4% So just in the wrong numbers if that person makes a hundred thousand dollars a year in salary The taxpayers are funding that employees retirement by an additional ten thousand dollars that is unheard of in the private sector Years ago it used to be a 50-50 split and that was changed back in the 80s And I tell a number of constituents that and they're absolutely shocked They cannot believe in this day and age that a retirement that we have to fund the retirement fund for our city employees 100% of it and now because of the money that we have to pay back that 10.4% is going to be going up to over 11% There's going to be an increase in the tipping fees. It's it's over doubled I don't know what the exact dollar figure is, but that's another thing. We're being hit with 100,000 dollars a year in tipping fees that we're going to have to pay to get rid of the city's garbage You know, I would encourage I would encourage the cons my constituents and all of the taxpayers in Sheboygan to call Senator libham and representative van Akron and have them introduce bills that Public employees start making a 50% at least a 50% contribution and their own retirement fund It's just totally ridiculous. I believe that out of the the $5 billion state deficit that if the if the Public employees would start paying at least half of their retirement that would reduce the state budget by two billion dollars That's that's what the the state retirement fund does so And again, we had many projects we wanted to bond for and We wanted a bond for five million dollars We had to cut it down to a little over a million dollars because for every million dollars that you borrow We have to pay back about a hundred thousand I had I had constituents over on 10th and Florida last year that were in rowboats last June On their streets and they've been waiting for that sewer project to be done for many years And it finally got prioritized and was going to get done this summer Well because of the state retirement fund situation We have to repay that there when our bond our bonding for For those projects so a lot of the problems were in maybe we had something to do with with previous Negotiations of contracts of city employees But a lot of it is being put on our backs from Madison and that I agree with alderman bulk I encourage the governor to but out of city budgets. We're perfectly capable of Coming up with solutions to our problems Without having a maintenance of effort put on us for police and fire protection for the next two years It's totally ridiculous to tell us that we have to maintain Spending levels for police and fire for the next two years at the same level. We're doing in 2009 We are perfectly capable of making intelligent Changes in the table of organization possibly at the at the fire department and also making intelligent Adjustments to the police department's budget, but now our hands are our hands are tied which makes it even more difficult. Thank you Thank You president borne and we have alderman bowers, and I apologize for turning your light off earlier Thank you, ma'am. I like to just reiterate Alderman wangham and said we should probably look into more user fees I Know there's a lot of people say well. This is just another tax. Well, it isn't a tax if you don't use it So if we could use this for different things I'm sure public works will be looking into this and I think perhaps this has some merit to it. Thank you Thank you alderman bowers now it appears all our lights are off There's no further discussion. We will Have a roll call Montemay or Rindflash Suric Vander wheel rule Wongamon Warren Bulk Bowers Decker Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson and Clowness 16 eyes motion carries Vice President kitchens, I apologize. I should have caught this when we zipped through some documents 764. I was going to ask for a potential suspension to follow 771 which we just voted on because they go together and one includes the budget transfers If in fact 771 was going to be passed. I just missed it as we were with them through We referred this to finance, but I'm asking we pull it back out and to suspend the rules second for the transfer What are the Sevens, I'm sorry. I came through that just as quickly as I lost it 764 were the transfers related to star Which which I was going to ask to be moved back past 771 to give the council deliberation time I missed it when we went through the documents. I apologize So we have a motion and a second. Is that a motion to Suspend suspend Do we have any Objection to suspension of the rules on this No discussion that suspension of the rules who seconded it President born seconded so we have now 7-64 correct. I apologize again. Nope. All right Not like I've never made a mistake up here Then I I believe I need to make a motion to put the resolution upon its passage We have a motion in the second to put 7-64 on its passage under discussion All the person kiddlesen. Thank you mayor. Okay. I just need to under You were going to send this to finance and we don't need to do that now because you want to put this This resolution through is that it Jim? Because the cuz 771 passed the next logical thing was to remove those dollars from the budget as 771 dictated So the logical step would be to clean it up and to complete the process I was looking for a little red dot on me Okay, so we any discussion attorney McLean To the extent that this is proposed to be a budget transfer I would suggest that there be some language in here to the effect that The city clerk be directed to publish this Document as a class 1 notice within 10 days of the change being made That's required for budget alterations under 6590 sub 5 of the Wisconsin statutes And failure to give that notice precludes the Changes in the budget so it wouldn't constitute a budget alteration Alderman Rind Fleischer house parliamentarian Thank you Did not catch that thank you Steve But does that mean that actually that we're not passing it upon the published after until after the publication Do we vote to pass on it now and then after 10 days after publication? It would actually then be in effect or do we wait until after 10 days before we actually take the vote and post the announcement Take the vote the I believe it's effective upon passage and publication But publication not as a class 1 notice the class 1 notice is required by statute for budget alterations, but Would go into effect prior to that prior to that then okay, then if that was the motion to make that amendment It's using your language. I'll second that So we have a motion and a second on the amendment on the amendment only any discussion No, we don't need a roll on the amendment only all in favor see I opposed motion carries Now back to passing the Resolution as amended as amended As amended And a second under discussion on the resolution as amended No further discussion roll call, please Gene thank you mayor all the person kiddleson So we go ahead with this does that mean then we're with all of these departments say we disagree with I mean are we are we Written in stone here, then this is what we're planning to do correct The dollars are written in stone the dollars are written in stone But how we get there can still be how we get there is it's still up for discussion It's very much negotiable. Okay any further discussion Alderman Hannah just you know, I know there was an alternative proposal from the public works employees And that's up for discussion Thank you, Alderman Hannah president board Thank you. I just want to second what Alderman Hannah said I had a chance to look over those proposals from the DPW union And I think there's some very good suggestions in there So hopefully between now and August 20th as part of the discussions of what services we're going to keep and what services We're going to modify. I hope we take into consideration those ideas from the DPW union and it would be nice possibly if the The public works committee could invite the representatives of the union to come in and go over their proposal However, what I would like to see in those in that proposal if it could be amended before the public works meeting is I'd like to see some dollar amounts attached to their suggestions on the bottom one scenario Saves four hundred and eleven thousand and I believe the other one five hundred eleven thousand But I didn't really see how they arrived at those figures So that would be I think very helpful for the public works committee and ultimately this body if it comes back to us to see some dollar figures attached to those proposals and as I said, I hope that the union Along with management through the public works committee can fully can fully go over those ideas and Hopefully come to some compromises where they make sense. Thank you. Thank you president boring. We have Alderman Hannah Just a quick answer to Alderman born president Boren's questions I also I met with some individuals from public works. I had the same question And they shared specific dollar amount. So we've got those and those will be available on Thursday Thank you Alderman Hannah Alderperson Kettleson. Thank you, mr. Mayor, and I just wanted to say as well that Definitely these their ideas will be on the agenda for up for discussion Thursday at the public works meeting So that and I guess I just wanted to be perfectly clear with you know, how we're these proposals You know, we're not these are not set in stone again. They everything is up for discussion dollars are you know, those that were That's our reduction But how we get there and I guess I really want everyone to understand that how we get there is still going to be We're going to still be discussing that Very good. Thank you. Thank you. Alderperson Kettleson Alderman Bob. Thank you, mr. Mayor And chairperson Kettleson may also encourage them to talk also about the leadership changes They're proposing a lot of leadership changes so that she may want to encourage a discussion about if these people go away What are the span of control of of the other managers who would be taking that roll up? So it might be a good time to talk about how many people are needed to manage such a force as well Thank you, mr. Mayor. Very good I have no more lights no further discussion. We have a roll call, please Rindflash Siric Vanderweel Wongamon Born bulk Bowers Decker Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kettleson Clowness and Montemay or 16 eyes Okay, we have held 7-63 for seven seventy-three on 763 wait a minute. There's 772 Oh, I'm sorry one more one more thing here first. We're on 772. I apologize 772 resolution by Alderman Bourne authorizing the city attorney to engage the services of special outside legal counsel to represent the law and licensing committee and common counsel regarding the quasi-judicial hearing regarding the suspension revocation of beverage operators license number 70 site 79 79 and authorizing payment for said services President poor Thank You, Mayor Ryan. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage I'm sorry first of all I need to ask for suspension We have a motion to suspend in a second The reason for this suspension mayor Ryan and fellow council members is that in all likelihood We're going to be having holding a quasi-judicial hearing next Tuesday at the law and licensing committee meeting And the reason we need outside counsel is that Attorney Adams who is usually the councils or the committee's legal counsel acts as the prosecutor and we have to hire an outside attorney to represent the interests of the law and licensing committee and And the council ultimately the council. So that's the reason why we need Outside counsel for these hearings any opposition to suspension of the rules None we need a motion to pass it motion to put the resolution upon its passage We have a motion in the second under discussion No discussion roll call, please sir. Hi Vander wheel Voo Wongamun born Bulk powers Decker Gisha Hannah Heidemann Cough Kittleson Clioness Montemay or and Rindfleisch 16 eyes Motion carries. We've held 7-63 for 7-73 Do we need the final 63 first? Alderman Bulk we have a motion to suspend by Alderman Bulk in a second Who did the second? Marilyn if I may by way of explanation you're certainly this has to do with Hiring an attorney high hiring a law firm to help us through the Negotiation phase of our union contracts and to give you a little history on this We discussed this back in early February a meeting in early February and what was supposed to happen was We voted to hire this law firm and then we did not get enough votes to fund the hiring of that law firm And the purpose of that was to get more information from other law firms a request for information And that fell through the cracks through the transition of the previous administrations. I wasn't the mayor at the time I wasn't the H acting HR director I wasn't on the salary and grievance committee, but I'll take the heat for this I've been the chair for a couple of months now, so it is what it is We do not have more information from other firms about their fee structure thing We don't have that information we wish we had but what we do have our negotiation conversations about union contracts beginning tomorrow night Without a law firm that specializes in union law or labor law to help us through that process So given that your honor, I have moved to suspend the rule so that we can Begin that relationship now and have their help Beginning tomorrow. Thank you. You have a motion and a second to suspend the rules under discussion Procedurally should we file 763 before we take 773 or No, we should pass seven think you want to act this might first we want to act first. Okay. We're going to act on seven 73 first right now the question is regarding suspension of the rules. Is there any opposition to suspending the rules? Alderman Bowers, do you have a question on suspending the rules? Okay Given that then your honor, I'd move that the resolution be put upon its passage We have a motion and a second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion All the person cleanest which one are we Considering 763 or 777 73 which is actually making appropriations to the money first Davis and Kiehl though. Okay. All right. Thank you very much Any further discussion on 773 we need a roll call Vander wheel Voo Wongamon Born bulk I Bowers Decker Gisha Hannah Heidemann Cough Kittleson Clayunas Montemay or Rinflesh and sir 16 eyes motion carries. I'd move to file 763 then your honor Motion to file 763 we have a motion in the second any discussion All in favor I post motion carries No, we have some other matters I Got some other matters here. I believe they're all attorney McLean correct Other matters authorized by law attorney McLean 774 is communication from Dick and Donna Edmond Regarding their concerns about closing the city's drop-off site and their concerns about the lack of a crossing lane from the parking lot on North 25th Street to the Sporgan Aurora Clinic That will be referred to public protection and safety And public works and also public works 775 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting various license applications for the period ending June 30 2010 and June 30 2011 And that will be referred to law and licensing Now President Blan Motion to adjourn all in favor Opposed we're out of here