 Good morning to you. You are watching 1-2-5-4 and this is why in the morning your favorite breakfast show as you know it is Monday and it's about that time we delve into youth and politics and we talk about governance in this country and not only within our borders but also across our borders. Now last week we did discuss the African democracies and we were able to touch on a few issues when we did come to the Kenyan chapter. My name is Hilda Wadidi and if you do want to slide into our DM, it's a 2-2-5-4 channel on Twitter. The hashtag is 1-2-1, hashtag is in politics. If you like to be more specific on Facebook, we are 2-2-5-4, on Instagram, 1-2-5-4-andesco-channel and on DSTV channel 3-7-6 on Signet, H-2-4, Staten, 54, Kari, Bhuni, Sana. Today with me in Studio we do have a very special guest. Today we have represented all of you watching us from wherever you're watching us from. Today you're well represented. Today you're going to be able to follow up with a conversation. So it's a bad time I introduce the two gentlemen next to me and the young people in the studio with me because we're about to have a very interesting conversation where it comes to the merits and demerits of the hashtag because you are able to touch upon the political tension usually during the time that we have our elections. So yes, let's go right ahead. Sanctisana for coming, Watilio, Czech, Lawrence, Vosili. Yes, please say good morning to the people for the very first time. Good morning, white, 2-5-4 family. It's a nice opportunity again to discuss this very noble idea of the handshake and I hope you're going to engage and have a very splendid discussion. Thank you. Great. Good morning everyone. My name is Lawrence Vosili as you have rightfully heard. I'm from Horizon Sign Language Training Center and I'm also a member of the African Charter for Democracy Elections and Government in Kenya. Thank you. Great. Good morning everyone. I'm Kevin Chegev from the Catholic of Eastern Africa. Morning. My name is Diego Gracias. I'm a strategy and business development practitioner and a member of the African Charter on Democracy Elections and Good Governance, Kenyan Chapter. Good morning. My name is Muki Mburu. I'm a governance and development professional and I'm also a member of Update. Thank you. Good morning. My name is Daniel Bogonco. I'm a leader from the constituency and the chair of University Students and a Calendary as a student at Denan Kemadhi University. Thank you. My name is Caroline Nongbuing Bogua. I'm the deputy president of the military. Wow, great. Morning. My name is Sade Erik and currently I'm into matters of politics and governance and also I am doing my masters at Kenyan School of Government in Public Admin. Thank you. Okay. Good morning everyone. My name is Jayce Gerry-Marie. They're called the constitutional affairs director for Isabel Karibunisana. Oh yes, Karibunisana. Thank you guys so much for coming and for making time for us this morning. So yes, let's talk about the handshake. Usually when we have our elections in our country there's usually a lot of tension, a lot of division. So we'd like to hear what are some of the merits and demerits of this particular handshake. What can you say? So far it has been helpful in doing what and it has not helped us in doing what. When it comes to demerits there's an issue of opposition. We don't have an opposition anymore apparently. So let's hear from you Wakileo Chek. What do you have to say about this before we hear from Lawrence? Okay, fine. First let me be open in a category called the issue that the handshake has crippled the opposition is a fallacy because the opposition party, the odium party, is still very enthusiastic in its agenda of keeping the check on the current government, the jubilee government. So the the last matters that we are hearing about the opposition being crippled by the handshake is a fallacy and that going forward we have to really look at the merits of the handshake vis-a-vis the political tensions that we have had post 2017 elections and then look at our country in that direction that do we have to have political tensions after every election year in period or do we have to look at a way of how we can harness our political direction so that we can have a future of political peace after elections and that the handshake has achieved more than we expected that currently we can say that we can say with the density that the country is peaceful we can do business peacefully there are no there are no demonstrations you know you remember what political demonstrations could cost our country like we can lose multi-millions in a day when the political tensions broke in our country that if we cannot do business with peace then we are losing a lot of money and then our economy then does not do well so I'm saying that we must appreciate that the handshake has achieved more than we expected okay okay let's hear from Laurence before we slide over and this other side you can be thinking about it okay of first and foremost I'd like to say that the handshake has immense benefit to this country because when Raeela and Uhuru were not working together all of us knew what happened problems erupted we had a lot of demonstrations no there were a lot of breakages and damages in this country you see you'll see the people demonstrating and other communities demonstrating and then the business will fail but we see using the handshake there is peace development has been honest however the handshake also has some negativities which I cite because when Raeela was in opposition we all know very well that Raeela whenever he saw incidences of corruption in any government institute Raeela would also always blow the whistle but currently that Raeela is working with the president corruption is still happening untamed and Raeela is silent his mom he can't say anything about it because it appears he's dining with the government right now he can't he cannot open the mega incidences of corruption in the government so me I feel that despite the handshake Raeela should still go back to the opposition so that he continues to guide us from the opposition side because we die we barely need Raeela more in opposition as opposed to in the government okay do you agree with Lawrence when it comes to that no can you please give the young people an opportunity to say something thank you do you say something please thank you first just just to take ourselves a step back I'm here to like represent african-chartown democracy elections and governance and there is a chapter 23 actually actually chapter 8 article 23 of the african-chartown democracy elections governance speaks about unconstitutional you know change of government and I feel like the tension we were in as Kenyans after you know an election year in period that went beyond six months you know from as early as July actually earlier than that 2017 to as late as you know January when we had even then you know the famous swearing in of Raeela I feel like we were in a very tense situation that the handshake was you know was the only solution at that time and to just pick from the conversation here we cannot every time be assuming that over 40% of people who vote the other side that does not win are not part of you know Kenya and so I feel like what are the what are some of the key lessons we can learn from the handshake number one from me is what if we started thinking about quote unquote let's work together as opposed to saying I am the winner I run with everything you and you you know you have to accept that's my first point however just to agree with Lawrence there's a point of you know the demerit aspect of there was no public participation and how I feel about it is having learned as the lawyer says that there are benefits to the you know the handshake can we have a point of institutionalization of such a process so that then there is a direct you know defined process of post-election agreements post-election corporations so that then we can actually see who then you know becomes the opposition and who joins the government so that business goes on as usual nobody feels like they are left out of the government just because they voted the other side and we cannot overlook that all right now we can now we can okay I'll start by saying that it's always wise to fight a common war for last win so when Rayla and Huru joined hands for the handshake it was a white decision though we don't know what they planned behind the curtains so they must tell us what they planned behind the curtains for last to join them in this common war of fighting craft and moving our country forward great yeah um I think I I sort of agree with my colleague here and my problem is not the handshake my problem is what led to the handshake and because young people were rallied around you know free and fair elections you know demanding for free and fair elections but we were not involved they're like you know like the 2007 elections there was a the peace accord and everything but how did we that as in wake up one night and you know this you know peace accord I mean the handshake so my problem is that the the the formation of the handshake is a problem but the handshake was there it's important that we had it because then we had peaceful elections we had I mean we had peaceful um coexistence within the country and you know just to encourage business environment um but also moving forward is how do we then institutionalize some of these um engagements so that even in future when we have any disagreement any unfair elections even not just national but also in the county how do we then um move from the electoral period to also moving towards you know that transition that transition has to be um institutionalized so that even the the people of this country can be able to know this is where we are at and this is what we need to do so that we can be able to facilitate the process now I like the ideas that have been raised by deogracias and and and that deogracias is a representation of 40 more than 40 million Kenyans who want to see peace after every election and that would like to have this idea of the handshake institutionalized so how then do we get institutionalization of the handshake that is why we are talking about the referendum question and and and my friend has alluded to it uh uh that uh we were really not informed of the the the the the the brass tucks of the handshake and that what it really uh discussed and what it really engaged in because it was a a handshake of two presidential candidates who were after the election swanin uh uru swanin and raila was swanin so then they came together and had a handshake but then they did not tell the country what are the nitty gritties that we have agreed on in the handshake then after that is why we have the building bridges initiative the bbi that the bbi is supposed to move into every corner of this country talk to people engage in public participation and come to us as citizens and tell us this is what the people want this is the idea actually actually i'd like to stop you there they were come they were complaints about the bbi that you've just mentioned that young people were not represented when it came to some of those initiatives that were done during that time were you guys involved were you involved when it came to the building bridges initiative so the youth senate kenya is right to say that you are not involved okay but what what are some of the contributions that you can make yeah now that you are not involved in the bbi as youths as as they are the the leaders of the current situation we can take that initiative of publishing these things that we should be knowing about the presidential handshake and handshake and other things that are happening people should be knowing them all over the country so that whenever anyone is making a decision on something to do or rather one or two is aware of what is behind everything not that some people go talk and then come on board and tell us no now this what we are going to do and then we remain with the questions in minds now what if this and this comes what if this and this still the tension is going to be there as as well if the handshake was not to be there though the the the tension is going to be rather reduced in a way but it will not not end from the minds of us the the the common monange okay great and we are from the guys at the back now just to add on to what he has said as young people can take part in the building bridges by sensitizing by sensitizing i mean you know we are i believe you're the most energetic people in the country but we only use during elections to fight anyway so we can chip in by probably coming up with banners you know if i that okay if i'm to communicate something right now in the young person people will take it seriously like we have WhatsApp groups you can sensitize people you can come up with campaigns we can come up with one of these things called questionnaires we ask people what they feel and all that so i feel we should we have more to give we have a lot of things to give yes we have a lot to give and also to add on to something about i hear people talking about the merits that have been brought about by the handshake but at some point i feel there's a demerit by this i mean you know uh we had the people's president these people's president was to help our young people acquire employment people had hope i even remember guys being told guys being told you should not go to work you should go demonstrate and all that so by the handshake it's sort of disadvantaged some people because some people really invested people never used to go to work you're told not to refrain from buying this to not use certain products yeah then you refrain so as much as the handshake was there it's a good when in the opposition because things are not the way he promised us yes thank you so much and if i were to also add something here i would say that first the genesis of of the handshake it was a political issue and we know that the very nature of politics in kenya is you know like uh judging would say that it is like a riddle which is wrapped in a mystery that is actually inside an enigma literature today has come through okay that is to say that the very nature of politics in kenya it is in a way that it it has pushed uh and particularly the youth to uh uh cocoon that they cannot understand and uh saying that i mean that it is even odious to even think that uh the leaders who are involved in the deal uh heard the public interest at hand the way uh politics is actually done in this nation it is obnoxious to even try and uh suggest that the leaders of this nation has uh the the interest of the public at hand but having having said that uh i want to answer my uh colleague yes lorraine's yes that uh it is not about one raila amolo dingo the opposition in the country does not have to depend on one person the opposition has to be institutionalized so that in the event that even that opposition leader is incorporated in the government government then we still have a strong opposition to keep the government in check thank you so much all right lorraine you seem to have you want some you want to say something yes yes yes yes yes i strongly feel the opposition working with the government the government will not deliver if the opposition is assigned from the government then incidences of corruption which may happen then in case anything wrong can be done then they can shout and heckle the government for the government to change to stop that corruption but right now from the from the time we had the handshake i've never seen raila or any person not talking about the government and issues of corruption so we don't know right now why everything like these things are mom but we see as a country we need a strong opposition but we all know very well that raila is the opposition leader of this country we don't have any other opposition leader in this country better than raila or dingo hey what about inclusivity and the youth what happens to us wakilyo check please can you respond now um president obama um sometime in his speech in the u.s said that uh we cannot use 19th century bureaucracy to fight the challenges of the 21st century um if we have had hard stands politics of opposition since 1963 actually since 1966 when and we have had that hand hard stands politics of opposition till 2017 and it has not both roots we cut no longer we can no longer use that uh bureaucracy to fight the 21st century challenges and i then uh get to the idea that raila dingo in his uh view to shake hands with president was a good idea because uh sometimes we are told that if you cannot beat them you join them for a good purpose speaking of beating them and joining them we had wait let me just finish and that uh going forward we have to institutionalize this into the constitution and that is why we are saying that we should not have elections where we have a winner take all scenario that let's have a parliamentarianism a parliamentary system of government where we have the leader of opposition in in in in parliament we have the president in parliament we have parliamentary oversight of the executive in parliament so that we don't have the executive outside parliament people who cannot who can be summoned to parliament to answer to audit queries to answer to questions of of misuse and embezzlement of government let's have these members of parliament be part of the executive in parliament so we can easily question them that is what we are we are we are talking about that is why we are saying let's have inclusive it in government the incipient intention of the handshake was for cohesion and national unity okay and from what i'm hearing from you like you take no no no no no no no can we please can we please wallow wallow there i can see a lot of pro referendum talk so where does that leave us when it comes to the young people the people who are living with disability as well institutionalized now we'd like to hear those so according to the referendum or critics of the referendum is that um it only creates positions of leadership for people who are up there but when it comes to the rest of us down there everything else is lost in implementation so can be here because today when they are represented can we hear from you what more can we do for the people who are living how well are they represented when it when it comes to leadership thank you yes please say something yes yes please in the first place i think that the the handshake was that promote peace rights and cohesion but i think you cannot mend one place and destroy the other place because after the handshake it left us with you know the the leading party was what was divided divided into two the opposition was also like divided so at the end of the day it did not promote peace and it was supposed to promote well at the end of the day it ended up dividing us even more great can we hear from just hold on one minute can we hear from dear gracious then we'll go back to thank you um i just want to pick from her point and from my understanding the handshake happened at a high level i'm not sure if there are more than 10 people that's just my thought that understood what was happening as per the responses of the key politicians before it was publicized and i'm thinking one i agree that in as much as there is no uh participation and engagement of like everyone else including the lieutenants of these political sides including like the lowest of the people but most importantly the youth then we'll always have opposition because you can't just you know discuss things and then bring us you know what has been cooked and is ready on the table through the tv and the media and you expect that we just gonna buy it so i feel like in as much as the handshake may have not you know included or engaged everyone if you're talking about the bbi and the referendum everything i feel like this is the opportunity for the young people to come up and push for their position and their you know their active engagement in this otherwise when we also continue debating and let it go we will always remain on the periphery that's we're going to help us all right i like the fact that now we can hear ourselves thank you thank you so much and i am very much glad that the issue of persons with disabilities has been actually raised and it is very disappointing that the very much that goes on the persons with disabilities are always sad lined and i say this vehemently and i think the the elephant in the house is that we always beat around the bush but we know that the elephant in the house is the leadership that if we find the the right leadership in this country then i am very much sure that every everything else will follow the issue of plebiscite is that it it must be informed by the national issues at hand but now who decides the national question that is at is at hand as of the moment we only have a very few people and and this is the very question that is addressed to the the whole issue of the handshake that who are those that are involved in and who are those that are left out because if at all it is a national conversation then it should not be prejudiced to like in a way conclude that the the issue ailing the nation must be addressed through plebiscite because the persons that now come out now to frame the question and mostly this is done by the political elite and they they normally do it in a way that promotes their own political game and this is where we are going wrong wrong the question must be framed in a way that it addresses the national question that so what can we do about it like now that we have we have discussed that we have agreed that they are the ones who made the decision and we and were left out they did create a fifth rule about a fifth of the people living with disabilities being represented but it got lost in in implementation so what do we do when it gets lost in implementation because i remember our chief justice abili mutunga said that the only true position we have in this country is the youth so i'd like to hear i'd like to hear from laurence please before we move away from that topic i'd like to hear what you have to say and then bookie you can go ahead yeah great okay all right fine personally i'm a person with disability but i will not lie that i understand very well issues to do with persons with disabilities but what i do know currently persons with disabilities are well represented in the current dispensation for instance we have an mp with the name david olesankok i hope you know him he's a person with disability so all along he has been working with the national council for persons with disabilities so he has also represented us in parliament right now wow we also have senator maura isak maura he's a senator he's a person with disability as well so if we have those two people i think we are well represented we also have another lady by the name denita gatti honorable denita gatti we also have doctor get rude musu rive so all those are persons with disability representing us but for now what i can say is that persons with disability are well represented but for the deaf specifically we really need to do more to assist the deaf people as part of persons with disability yes but this is good for us if we can have maybe one deaf person is an mp maybe who sits in the senate who understands issues to do persons who are deaf who can represent us either in the senate or the parliament because those nominated mps all along have never been engaging more with deaf persons so the question is are they just representing other persons with the physical disabilities because they understand those other categories better but they don't understand us because they're not in our school so if we could have had one of our own seated there then we could feel as deaf persons that we are well represented so lorenz are you going to buy come 2022 oh yes i'm very very serious about it i'm intending to buy in the year 2022 but for now i want i'll not yet made my final decision which seat i will intend to contend for i've not yet decided but very very soon i will decide i'm sure one day i must represent persons with disabilities either in parliament or in the senate wow and we wish you the best of luck with that but i'm glad to hear that you do feel represented tell me some bookie can we hear from you um i would say i support the idea of youth for bbi even though we're not involved in the handshake however um the fact they say we're not on the table you on the mill i've been i've engaged in police work before and once they're doing the police work and you're not there to question and to you know push your agenda forward then you'll be left out so young people we have organized ourselves youth serving organization you know we have come up with draft communicate to you know submit to the bbi but we are not sure how much that will be captured in the final uh document and in in when the referendum and all these things so as much as we have not been on the table we had we are trying ourselves to be in in the table but for me i would say as much as youth we are the of the we are the opposition we need to disrupt sometimes even this for more communicates g-memorandum lobbying the parliament sometimes it doesn't work and it's for us for us young people to um look back and see what other strategies do we have uh other creative ways do we have so that we can be able to disrupt as as my friend was saying the wakili was saying we need to you know move out from the 19th century engagement to 21st century so that we can be able to rally ourselves behind to be able to influence policy work and um the decisions that are made in this country great yeah now my sister at the back was talking about the handshake has having been uh having brought more divisions in uh in the ruling party yes so that demand i think she she was talking about lewek and tanga tanga is it no lewek and tanga tanga is uh is uh is politics about 2022 because when you see them wherever they go when you see tanga tanga brigade in uh in wherever they are when you see lewek bandwagon in wherever they are they are drinking about 2022 but president uhuru kenyatta and the former prime minister reilo dinga were very specific that they are not going to be engaged in 2022 politics they want to have a peaceful coexistent country where the big four agenda can be achieved and the big four agenda we are talking about manufacturing we are talking about housing we are talking about health we are talking about things that are touching the common monangi so if people think in the jubilee administration that they have been divided and there are very few people uh that uh are fighting for their personal interest because look at them wherever they are they are talking about uh the dp in 2022 these are people who are looking at their personal interest in 2022 maybe they have lost touch with the people in the ground they have lost touch with the electorate they are looking at how electoral fraud in 2022 perpetuated by their leader can get them into the seat so i think these are people we should not be talking about can we these are people that are trying to divert our attention from the common goal what we must discuss and especially as the youth is how we are going to be involved in the building bridges initiative how we are going to uh uh uh provide our our issues how we are going to put forward our agenda in this building bridges initiative and the building bridges initiative is moving across the country there's nowhere they are not going to and we must then put our our ourselves in the forefront as a youth because because the this referendum question as i told you before the referendum question is more focused on the on the future generation and the future generation is us the youth so we must really be very strong in in this all right and the youth should not be should not be their attention should not be diverted by politicians who are looking for their personal interest i would like to know akdex uh contribution when it comes to the building bridges initiative and last time i i did not have time for call to action so can you guys please do that as your as your closing this fast great thank you uh first and foremost i really appreciate that the building bridges is going to every corner of this country yes with a bigger picture of you know whatever comes after the referendum whether it was informed by the handshake or not i feel like this is a good process when we are bringing together you know the public and the youth to play the roles i just would like to urge number one that can we please utilize the existing uh you know platforms of the youth for example akdex has like membership it's actually a region i mean an african platform but the kenyan chapter would really like to add value to the whole process how do we ensure that such organized you know youth organizations youth factions are actually represented certainly in contributing to this so that then one it's good to contribute but just as moki mentioned how do we then also ensure that there is accountability when we actually bringing up whatever comes or whatever is built out of the building bridges initiative so that we are not also just talking about so and so have to be in parliament let's create as many you know as many positions as possible and what is the position of the youth i feel like let's wake up as young people let's join hands and stop thinking that we are competitive against each other we are over 60 percent but we have to join hands bring together as many of the a b c d e f g you know youth organizations and youth factions stop thinking about let me create my own let's think about can we join hands use this you know bridge as they call it the building bridges initiative to actually you know advocate for the youth agenda and just to finalize um when you talk about the akdex and the call to action the african chapter on democracy elections and governance was actually adopted way in 2007 the kenyan chapter you know signed it kenya as a government signed it in 2008 they have not ratified it they have not committed to that why why why is that so let me not respond to that i believe all of us respond my my concern is that basically means that we don't want to be held accountable at a regional level and we don't want to report as a government to any other body beyond the national level which unfortunately as a government we control all systems in kenya and so i'm calling upon uh especially the youthful i feel like this akdex as a platform is an opportunity for the young people to be included in government and i feel i would like to call upon like young parliamentarians we need your support in this you know uh the cabinet with a good will of the youth we also need your support to ensure that the african chapter on democracy elections and governance is actually ratified and signed up and committed to by the kenyan government thank you great all right all right all right please can you close the house for us we're supposed to wind up yeah uh i want to add one thing a lion in the jungle is able to attack an elephant as much as the elephant is big in body size now if youths we direct our eyes into opposition as uh justice really it was telling us we might not end up taking up the mantle of leadership because the government will also tend to go in the direction that will evade us because we are our minds are set to oppose wherever or whatever that they want to do as the government so in what i want to add on now my what my brothers have uh have said is that uh it is high time that we come together and think more than above opposition as youths wow think beyond the opposition i like that that's an amazing parting shirt oh my god i don't know what i'm gonna do because it's about time i wind this up but i'm glad you guys had time to make your call to action i'm glad that you guys made time for us today thank you so much lorenz yes are we going to be seeing you next time that's a must i like that all right thank you so much for killing your chick you know i i know you know i cannot give you that time because you will tell us a story so sorry sorry sorry sorry all right please do not change that dial or do not touch that dial rather my name is hilda adidi and you've been watching youth and politics please do not go anywhere