 First, I would like to announce that this meeting is being recorded. My name is Stephanie Chigarello, and I am the town sustainability coordinator. My pronouns are she, her, and hers. For this meeting, if everyone would please introduce themselves when they speak for the first time, and also tell us your pronouns, and then you can proceed with whatever your comment is. So I'd like to welcome everyone to this meeting. We're very excited to have you all with us. It's great, the first two sessions that we've had so far have been very successful and very interesting and very engaged. And people have shared quite a bit. So we look forward to yet another opportunity like that this evening. So thank you. A few housekeeping items. If at any point this meeting is zumbombed, that means someone makes inappropriate comments or shows inappropriate material, please feel free to immediately leave the meeting. And then we will follow up with information as to how we will reconvene. Also, I'd like to introduce Carla Reed-McNally, who is our American Sign Language interpreter for this meeting. If you would all take some time when you speak to pause so that Carla may interpret. So in 2005, the town released a climate action plan. And the process for that plan was very, very different than what we are embarking on here now. So thank you for being part of a process that is far more inclusive and represents more people within the community with different viewpoints and perspectives. So we really value everything everyone is going to contribute to this process. So I'd like to start with a land acknowledgment. This is a statement of the Indigenous heritage of the land. We humbly acknowledge that we stand on Nanatuck land, acknowledging also our neighboring Indigenous nations, the Nipmuk, the Wampanoag to the east, the Mohican and Pequot to the south, the Mohican to the west, and the Abenaki to the north. And now I'd like to turn this over to Gezikaya. Thanks, Stephanie. Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot one thing to mention. I'm sorry, Gezikaya. If for some reason you're using video and you have trouble with a connection, please feel free to turn off your video. That should help. And you can just be without an image. And you should also make sure your microphone is muted if you're not speaking. So please turn off your microphones when not speaking. Thank you. All right. So I'm Gezikaya. I use they, them pronouns. And in group activities like these, it can be helpful to make some agreements about ways that we would like to be respectful of one another. So I'm going to introduce some possible agreements to start with today. And then as we get to know each other over the next few meetings, we may find ones that we would like to add or change. The first one is to put people and relationships first. We want to really think about how these climate issues affect real people in their lives. And think about building understanding rather than about winning or getting our individual goals met. As a part of taking care of each other tonight and of ourselves, we want to encourage you to take a break when you need it, to check in with your children or anyone else who may need your attention, to step away to use the restroom or get a drink or a snack, whatever you may need. You're free to turn off your video and take a moment at any point. The second one is to be aware of your language. As Stephanie mentioned, we have interpretation in this meeting. And we're going to make sure that we use very clear thoughts and ideas. So think before you speak and plan what you want to say. And please avoid jargon or technical terms that everyone in the room might not be aware of. Before you speak, we're going to ask you to raise your hand. You can either do that physically if you're using video, or you can use the zoom function to raise your hand. It's next to you on the participant's list. And if you're joining by phone, you can select star nine. And this is going to allow us to keep a slow and thoughtful pace and to be really reflective about what we're sharing. The third one is step up, step back. So if you're a person who tends to be on the quieter side, please share more. If you are a person who tends to talk a lot, please think about sharing less. We want everyone to participate. And sometimes that means leaving what can feel like an awkward silence so that those quieter people can have time to come in with their thoughts. So one is to keep it private and don't pry. We're going to be sharing about some sensitive topics at points. And we want you to keep what you learn about others, their families, their feelings, and their finances as confidential as possible. Please don't ask for more personal stories or details. And when someone shares a need, let it just be stated without asking for proof. And the last one is that we hope that we'll be able to learn about our personal and cultural values within the group. And remember that what might make sense for you or be what your culture considers good or right may not be the same for everyone. One of the ways that we're going to do this, as Stephanie mentioned, is to introduce yourself with your pronouns. We're going to ask you to stick to talking just about your own experience and not talk about other groups of people. And to commit to considering that your versions of right and wrong are likely just a reflection of your cultural values and experiences. And they may differ from others in the room. So we really encourage you to be open to learning by asking a lot of questions. OK, thanks so much. And I think I'm turning it over to Jim. Hi, Jim Newman. I prefer he, him, his pronouns. I am a consultant who is helping this process, myself, Lauren DelaPara, and working with Gazikaya. And my role is to really sort of help this process move forward. I'm not going to say a ton other than to ask questions. So this is my opportunity to turn it over to the co-chairs. And let me just remind you that it would be really great when you finish speaking to just stop. We'll pause for a little bit. Allow the interpretation to catch up and allow us all to just reflect a little. And think a little about what it is you're learning. What do you want to say before saying it? And don't forget to raise your hand. Jesse, Sarah. Hi, everyone. I'm Sarah Durr and my pronouns are she and her. I am originally from Ohio and moved to Amherst two years ago with my husband and two and a half year old. We probably can hear. I still feel very new to Amherst, but I'm finding ways to be engaged in the community. And I think that's what I think is most importantly to me is being a member of this committee. Working towards a sustainable future really excites me. And I am looking forward to meeting and working with each of you. You're on mute. Jesse. My name is Jesse Selman and. He him. I live and work in Amherst and have been here for about 10 years. I live in Amherst. I live in 10 and 12 who go to school here. And my wife, who works. In town and also in Holyoke. We live in South Amherst. I'm here as a member of the climate committee as a resident neighbor. And. I want to echo what Sarah said. Isolating time. It's been remarkable to me how grounding the work of the ECAC, the climate committee has been and those connections. And I really hope that and invite us you all to sort of join that feeling of acceptance and connection at these meetings, although they are digital. But, yeah. I want to start with just some very simple contextual background. Why we're here, how we got here. You I believe you've all seen a short video talking about this. I'm going to read to you verbatim some of the language of our charge, which is to recommend to the town council, long term climate action goals and action steps that focus on reducing greenhouse gas emissions and building resilience within and across all town sectors. For this task group, we're specifically looking at buildings and within the town of Amherst, but I want to put forth this notion and I think you're going to hear this a lot today. That though we're talking about buildings this is really centered around the people that build them that design them that inhabit them. That own them, manage them, work in them, and probably most importantly live in these buildings. So, while there is a lot of technical and pragmatic political cultural economic and project based thinking that we will embark on. I just want to hold that humanness right next to the word buildings. Sarah is now going to talk a little bit more about what we're specifically here to do today. So why are we here today this group. It's a deeply held value of this group, myself, Jesse and the entire ECAC committee that we embark on a holistic and intersectional approach to climate action. Our committee has prioritized community engagement as an essential component of this work with attention to inclusion of underrepresented groups and environmental justice communities. The goal of this meeting and the following two are to share knowledge and experience about climate change in Amherst. We hope to create a shared understanding of what our goals are, and then work together to identify strategies and action items to help achieve those goals. It is our hope that this meeting and those to come will serve as just the starting point of our work together. The beginning of vital relationships and conversations as we work toward a more sustainable and equitable future for Amherst. Jesse will now talk us through some of the ideas regarding the framework for today's conversation and also our future conversations together. So as the building's task group, we there are there are many ways to frame the challenge that we're that we're tackling and as task group chairs we're proposing to set this worth work within a context. And the context that we're providing is really it's two questions and a statement. The two questions are how do we enhance the quality of life. And how do we reduce carbon emissions. These are the things we care about. This is the reconciliation of social and environmental justice. And the realization that they must be connected or we have failed. There may be conflict between the two and compromise will be necessary, but also they may deeply support each other to create even better solutions. So that that's the context of those in the questions. The statement we want to put forth is that what we're proposing is a daunting task. And we will see both successes and failures. In this statement I want to acknowledge that we do not have the answers. Do not know what this is going to look like. We do not promise solutions. We are just a committee established to make recommendations to the town government, but a byproduct of this work may be a shared acceptance that we are taking what we are taking on is massive. But still there's value in taking it on to combat climate change and injustice. So, I think more importantly, stop sort of find out how we can guide this conversation back to realizable action. And so I will pass that buck to Jim, who's going to take us through an activity to begin that work. Thanks, Jesse. Just before we jump in, does anyone have questions that they need to get answered right now. Could we do introductions before we jump into the first activity. Thanks, John. My suggestion is that rather than going through introductions all the way through the process that as you speak, introduce yourself, who you are, keep it pretty tight. But that's an opportunity for us to introduce each other with our thoughts and ideas. So it's sort of a more full introduction of ourselves. So don't forget to do that. In fact, let me finish a little of my introduction. And that is that I do not live in Amherst. I live in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and work in the area on these kinds of things. And so consequently, I talked to many people and hear a lot of ideas and am very excited about the ideas and the people and the process that comes in right here in this meeting. I'm going to interrupt you for a moment, Jim. My apologies. I'm going to just give us a little bit of a tip. I appreciate that we're pausing in between sharing thoughts, but we want to make sure not to pause midthought. It can be very difficult to interpret into ASL if you pause in the middle of your thought because of the way that the language works. So make sure that you finish your thoughts, and then you can feel free to pause. Just please don't pause in between the fact. Great. Thanks. Thanks for reminding us again. So our first activity is really a question and it's a question for everybody. That question is really what makes a better building? What is it that in your experience makes a building more livable or workable? And maybe what makes it less livable and less workable? This might be something like it's cold or it's hot, or it might be something like the building I'm working in makes me feel bad. Or it might be something like the building I'm working in makes me feel great and I love to go there. This is why. So I'm just going to open it up and let people start to answer those questions. What does make a better building? What gets in the way of a better building in your experience? And I'm going to give one more clarification. So you can talk about a building that you have a positive or negative experience with that could be somewhere that you work in, somewhere that you live, or somewhere that your kid goes to school, or somewhere that you have to visit for doing business. It could be any building that comes to your mind. And just pick one and tell us a little bit about it. I'll jump in. This is Georgia. My name is Georgia Malcolm. I work in the Amherst regional public schools. And I'm the administrative assistant to the athletic director. We're different hats. I'm a member of the executive board for the local union work with the superintendent on the Atlanta council. So when you say that, I think of windows. Windows for me are because as we're going through this whole negotiation with the district on what coming back to school is going to look like and the quality of the buildings to other schools are referred to a sick building because literally people are getting sick and for me primary real estate is I have to have a window. And you know, I work in the athletic department and the reality is that I don't think we're going to have a season. So I remember when I got into that building last year, it's in the high school and I got into the office and I, you know, got it cleaned out there was a window wall to wall window and it was hidden by closets. And I was like, oh my God, this is like prime real estate, you know, and so like I told the assistant superintendent, I said, you know, I realize that, you know, I might be, you know, put somewhere else or begin others responsibilities but I will do it within my space if I have to be here I'm not going to be in a building or in a space where there's no windows because that to me, you know, the sunlight it's just it's important. I don't know if that's really simple but it seems so simple but it makes such a huge difference just to have the natural light. Yeah. Georgia that is a beautiful statement. Thank you. Yeah, Chris. Don't forget to unmute yourself. I'm a middle retired architect. He, him, her is and Let's see, I have been in this town for a long time since we arrived here in 1971. Right. Yeah, December 1970, but you might as well say 1971. So far as a building that I've experienced recently that I think highly of. I had occasion to be the owners project manager for the Hitchcock Center for the environment at Hampshire College. I feel that that building does an awful lot of what I care about in terms of the environment and the planet. And it also works extremely well for those people in it. It's a, it is full of light and it's for it's spacious and has a certain capricious delight to it. And it has a lot to do with the design of it. It's just something a place that I would hope we would strive for in all of our buildings. Chris. Great. I'm going to ask you in a little bit to maybe speak a little bit more about some of the qualities within the Hitchcock Center that you think are valuable. Let's hold that for right now. We can come back to that as we start to build some vision of what, what really does make a great, a great, what, what is better, like not necessarily great building. What is better, Stephanie. Hi, so I actually don't live in Amherst, although I've worked for the town for over 20 years. I live in Bernhardstin. And I belong to a Unitarian church in Northfield mass that does not have wheelchair accessibility. So I go to a place of worship that actually doesn't allow for some people to access it. And we're working on it. But a barrier is money. We have a very, very small community of very, very small congregation. And so we don't have the funds to simply renovate the building to make it accessible. So that's one thing that I think all buildings should have is accessibility. And thank you to everybody for raising your hands. I was just going to check in to see if no pressure, but if Janine or Cam wanted to share. Yes, I have one of the comments. Can you hear me? Yes, thank you. Okay. My response to the questions, what makes a better building is that the building would be accessible on many levels without sacrificing needs of others. Most schools tend to prioritize the appearance of how it looks without the intention of making it accessible. It makes it pretty and aesthetically pleasing to help feel more at home as school, but is not practical as many are not accessible to buses or disabled folks and so on. Sometimes the problem is that by the buildings looking so nice that raises properties worth, but that also then limits who can afford to live in the area. If the buildings are causing gentrification and preventing access for many of those reasons, I said because I said because they seem so nice, it becomes part of this. It becomes part of the problem, not the solution. The solution comes by focusing on making everything better for the environment, while also making sure that the barriers that are in place that are listed are also addressed equally. Thank you, Cam. Yeah, really beautifully put. Janine. Hi, my name is Janine. She, she, her. I think what makes a good building. Well, I live in a housing place. And I think communication and working on fixing the things that need to be done in the orderly time I think is how you say it. And good maintenance. People makes a good building. I so agree Janine. I will piggyback off of that. And I think at first they were surprised, but now maybe they've gotten used to it that at any given moment, my landlord may come and it doesn't matter that I'm in a work meeting. I don't feel like I'm respected in the same way that another person would be who owns their home, who someone coming to fix their house would probably make an appointment. It's just, I have to be grateful whenever my landlord shows up and I have to be ready to do whatever my landlord needs me to do, no matter what's happening so having communication with the landlord, or the property manager that's respectful and timely, and centered around the needs of the person who's actually living in the building would be wonderful. Is that an experience you share, Jenny. Yes, I do. I feel like if things are going to be should be fixed in a way that it's not needing to be fixed a couple of days later or week later. And the things. So yes. Nicely put. That was, I'm sorry. Yes, go ahead. I agree with you. I've been denied housing because accommodations I need are aesthetically pleasing for the landlord. And that is a big problem in this area, the gate, the gatekeeping due to the property values is really bad. So I appreciate you bringing that out cam. I never thought about how someone might not want to change a building for accessibility in order for it to look a certain way. That must be so painful and frustrating. I think it's interconnected with the property values. That's something that I never thought about either and gentrification. So thank you for bringing that up. I want to learn more about that. So you John, sorry. Yeah, go ahead. You have to unmute yourself. Oops, yeah, I've been having trouble with the hand raising. So I remembered I could just raise my hand. Here's John Hornick. I use he, him and his. I've been an Amherst since I think 1973. Presently I am co chair of the Amherst municipal affordable housing trust. So you can expect me to advocate for affordable housing. That's probably more a social goal. But it is consistent with environmental goals. I am always looking for allies and I hope this is an opportunity to form alliances since affordable housing like climate justice is not at the top of everybody's priority list. As far as better building, I'm a homeowner. And so I think of my house as a better building. It has comfortable space, but it's not grand. It had good space for my children to grow up in now they're 47 and 50. So they're growing up. I recently made the house significantly more accessible. The house has been environmentally sensitive to since the time we built it many years ago. It was designed for solar gain and heavily insulated and solar panels were added eight years ago. So I am an early convert to trying to make the best for the environment in my house. Great. Thank you, John. I'm going to interrupt and just have us all take about a 20 second pause. Cam is participating by typing. And so I want to make sure that cam has opportunities to take a break to type up thoughts. Affordable housing lists are five and eight years long and Amherst has no emergency housing, which also means people are getting forced out of Amherst when things happen in their life that requires them to find a new place to live. Thank you, Cam. Absolutely. And I will piggyback off of that one too that especially right now because of COVID, there is really no emergency options in our town. Another thought when I was listening to John was around how we heat and cool our homes and keep our homes efficient. I'm wondering if Georgia or Janine or can have thoughts on those topics. No problem. Okay, we can keep going. Those who haven't spoken. I see Jessica and Ludmilla both have their hands up. Maybe Jessica, why don't you introduce yourself and and go ahead. My name is Jessica Schultz and I am living building coordinator and communications coordinator at the Hitchcock Center. I don't live in Amherst, I live next door in Granby. But I've had the opportunity, the very, very fortunate opportunity to go through and be a part of the building process at the Hitchcock Center and then of course now to work in the Hitchcock Center. And I echo, you know, everything that is being said here and I'm sure more. So it's hard for me to choose one or two, or even three or four things that are important to me about a building. But having worked in that space. One of the things that is super meaningful to me, both on a workplace level. And also in my personal life is the materials that are in the building. So many of the materials that we encounter in our day to day lives are made with various chemicals that off gas into our spaces. And those chemicals that off gas are not healthy for us. Well, we may not know whether they're healthy or not. We just don't know what our exposure is. And not only that, but obviously those chemicals are made in various communities throughout our country. That don't always have a choice whether those chemical plants are in their communities. And so there are several layers to that. The other layer is that because all the materials in our building are vetted against the toxic red list. And we tried as much as possible to be chemical free and all the materials. Those who have chemical sensitivity are more able to be in our building. And I've had folks who have participated in my tours and specifically thanks me that we built our building to be a chemical free space. So I think that's very important across all buildings, whether it's a municipal building, a school or, you know, any sort of home space for anyone. Thank you. Thanks Jessica. Yeah, Kim. They put you on an emergency housing list when you become homeless. But that list is also years long in terms of heating and cooling the homes. Every source seems to have a monopoly in this area and they refuse to do discounted plans for low income folks, which means that if you can't pay you don't have any other options with that either. This is not a town as it currently is to be able to live while living with low income successfully do the way that the homes and the buildings are built. Thanks, Kim. This is an area that is coming up across the different groups, one that definitely came up when we talked around energy and what how people pay for their heating and cooling. Certainly all of these programs that would make you more able to pay for something that's like clean energy, you have to be a higher income person or a homeowner. So it's something that we've really kept coming back to in this in these groups. I think someone else was going to go next but also Janine is ready when that person finishes. Great. So, Lidmila, you have your hand up. You want to introduce yourself. Sure. I'm Lidmila and my pronouns are she and hers. I've been living in Amherst for 22 years, but I've been part of the Amherst life since I came to the United States. I'm an immigrant from Bulgaria. My mother went to UMass as a postdoc and when she smuggled me and my aunt out of Bulgaria who lived in Long Island but we would visit Amherst every year for every holiday since I came when I was 14. And I feel like a townie because I have this long history of being part of the town and I chose to live here because I wanted to be in this community. So for me, better buildings start with better communities. I knew the house that I live in because it belonged to two sisters that I used to visit on horseback, strangers that may seem. And it has a fabulous tree. So for me, a good building is one that is surrounded by good nature, whether it's a city. Or whether it's in a town and I think Amherst is really very fortunate to have to be in this beautiful valley with marvelous trees. I also think a good building has good ventilation. I lived in New York City and small apartments for many years and apartments that don't have cross ventilation were so difficult to live in, especially in the summertime. I didn't know I would be settling in a temperate rainforest and that's where that that's the climate in Amherst so being able to open the window means that I don't have to use air conditioning for most of the year except on really, really hot days. I live in a house that was built in 1950s. And I'm very happy in it, mostly because it has a beautiful living room that's large enough to accommodate our friends, and we can spill out into then the dining room if we have to when we're here. I think of a good building is one that has really strong community space that permits all kinds of activities to happen that is adaptable. It's going to be an architect and I think if you can see the background behind me it's of a it's of a theater that was discovered read actually dug up during my childhood. It was uncovered while I was in the United States. And for the first time that I could go back to Bulgaria. I discovered it about 12 years ago. It's actually a stage built of stone. And as an architect. One of the things that I always look for is buildings that have strong bones that are built to last and that are adaptable enough to be to accommodate the needs of many different kinds of people and that are open actually as well to many this theater in my hometown is charges for performances. But you can always hear the opera, even without having to pay because there are lots of streets that often fill up with people who just come and listen. So, these are just the things I wanted to share I work as an architect that you mass Amherst. And I think a lot about green buildings because I work with a lot of the designers on campus and so I have lots of ideas about how to maintain buildings but ultimately I'm here because I'm a resident and I really care about this town. Thank you. Thank you. Jeanine, did you want to jump in. So about the windows where I live we are not able to open our windows, we've been invaded by stink bugs. And I actually spent two days taking them out of my kids rooms, and the screens are not really good. And in that because we can't open the windows it gets really really hot so I had to invest in and and conditioners, which I don't really like. But since we can't open the windows I have no choice. But also in the winter we have to put towels on the doors because the draft. It could be very cold like in the kitchen. Heating wise, I feel like it's very expensive to heat where I live. And I have to have the heat on high because if you don't, it for some reason doesn't stay on. So, that's why I want to say about windows. Thanks, Jeanine. I had the same experience in another, not where I live right now, but it wasn't stink bugs. It was ticks that invaded. It was very bizarre. It was actually the week before I had my baby. I was like fully, fully pregnant. And the night before going to the hospital the landlord took both the doors off because they were going to fix the doors. And there were all these ticks. And I collected 30 in one jar. And we left for the hospital with no doors. And I told them, you better have doors when I come back with this new baby. But it stayed just as buggy. We gratefully got to move about six months after my baby was born. But it was, I totally had forgotten about it until you told that story. I can see why. Wow. Anyone else? It's like Cam has something to say. Cam, yeah. I think community space that isn't possible in most public community buildings in Amherst, do the lack of accessibility. And when buildings are older, they are sometimes seen as grandfathered in, which is what is used as an excuse to avoid being held accountable when it comes to accessibility. We not only need to maintain them, but we also need to modify them to enable them to be used for their original and future purposes as we go forward. As medical equipment and mobility devices change, the buildings need to change as well. A small short point. Can I ask Carla to speak slowly like everybody else? Oh, yeah. When you speak, Carla, you're really going fast. And I'm my slow, elderly mind can't keep up. Chris, I think that the point that Cam was making was that community spaces are often not able to be accessed in Amherst because the older buildings are given grandfathered in privileges so that they don't have to upgrade to be more accessible. So it's difficult to find community spaces in town because there are so few that are actually accessible. And please, Cam, correct me if I missed any of that. Thank you. Appreciate that. Everyone, my name is Lauren, she, her, her pronouns. And as Jim mentioned, I work with him and because he can sort of facilitating this process. I don't live in Amherst either. I live in Boston, but I went to graduate school in Amherst. And so I was there while the new design building was being built. And if you've never seen that building, it's a very cool, very beautiful building. Sorry. But it's also one of the things about it that I think is so great is that it supports the environment around it as well. It has green infrastructure that is basically rain gardens, gardens that are planted intentionally to capture the rain that's coming off of the parking lot next door. And I just think it's a really awesome design because it reduces the impact of the building on the site around it and good buildings should do that. Thanks, Lauren. Lydia, you have not spoken. Would you like to. And then it looks like after Lydia goes and you'll need to unmute yourself. Lydia would like to speak after Lydia. Great. Sure. I'm Lydia Vernon Jones. I've lived in Amherst for a really long time. I was part of getting the zero energy for new buildings past. I was a social worker. I've heard many stories like I've been told about living in public housing or subsidized housing, poor housing or whatever. For me, when I'm thinking about newly built housing, I've been to some zoning board meetings and I've seen builders be allowed to build buildings that don't have any place for bicycle racks, don't have any place for charging an electric car or still using fossil fuels. And for me, it's really important that in our town we stop using fossil fuels to heat our buildings. So I'm really hoping that we can, even though the state doesn't require some of these things yet, that we can find ways to influence builders to be very thoughtful about the new buildings that come up are built. Thanks, Lydia. Yeah. Just say one thing. Yeah. I'm really grateful you said that Lydia because during this time of the pandemic, even though I live in an outlying area in Amherst, I'm really happy that I can still get on my bike and ride into town. And I think bicycle infrastructure is really essential for connectivity, because it's such a cheap form of transportation for those who can use bicycles. And if you, if a bicycle can get around so can someone push a wheelchair. I have a friend who has a wheelchair and it's been a blessing at least to be able to get on the roads and show her around. Sorry, Cam. That's right. Also, if the buildings were once accessible doesn't always mean they will still be years after as the needs of the community are always changing. Newly built housing is also not accessible, even when supposed to be as the ADA was created by able-bodied people so long ago, it rarely applies properly these days. Where I live currently isn't accessible, but it was built in 2016. I had to move before because the bicycles being built restricted access to the wheelchairs due to how it was built. Bicycles are great, not if they destroy access. That's a great thought, Cam. And it's part of a sort of whole view of that access for bicycles, which is very important, can't be had at the expense of access for people or other, those aren't trade-offs we want to make. We don't want that to be a trade-off. We want all of that. I'm going to change our question a little bit. And we've talked a lot about specific things might be better or worse. Accessibility is obviously a really important sort of principle that we want to hold on to and want us to guide us in our thinking about, okay, what do we do here? There are a couple of others. I'm going to ask the question from these conversations and from these experiences. What should the guiding principles be? We have a couple of thoughts that are really pretty high up. I thought George's comment about windows is a fantastic comment and a great guiding principle of accessibility doesn't just mean being able to get in and out of a building. It means that the really great qualities of a building or a place are accessible to everyone and that windows and light are one of those great qualities. Are there other things like that that have come up here so far that you think need to be elevated, need to be really important? And I think, Kim, you have made a lot of really great points about the way accessibility needs to be elevated. If you would maybe want to start this process. Go ahead, Cam. The echo paid bikes literally made the bus stop inaccessible for wheelchairs for years. Only after wheelchair uses were forced to move did they fix it as tents with more money ended up moving in who use strollers for their kids. Financial accessibility is also crucial. There's a little bit more, but I'm just waiting for it to come in. But it isn't the way the town prioritizes money over people. Thank you, Cam. I also wanted to mention the idea that all sorry, I'm pausing because I haven't totally put the thought together, but something around how we need to value both the people who can control their buildings and the people who cannot. We've heard a lot tonight and in the other groups about how renters have little to no control over the way that their buildings or their energy use goes. And that's because the landlords don't have any reason to be concerned about what's actually going on for the renter. Like Cam just mentioned, people with more money or more privilege will move in if you leave a place that's not working for you. So the landlords really don't have to care. And that's why thinking about policies that push landlords to actually prioritize the needs of their residents is necessary because a landlord is always going to prioritize profit over the actual needs of the people who live there. Yeah, Chris. Let's see, I would like to sort of come back. I've been my my field is as far as climate change is concerned is I've been occupied with the existing buildings that are out there. That go on to the horizon and have terrible insulation and lousy windows and bad heating systems and so forth. How I take seriously the basic or a basic assignment is to find a way to get the Commonwealth to net zero by 2050. And I mean, that's really the our assignment and now our and our assignment is to do that in a way that doesn't that works for all of the people in the Commonwealth, including the renters. And how do we get all of the existing apartment complexes and the new ones that are going to be built to be a consistent with a 2050 net zero goal. I find it really hard to get. I've been working on this and figuring out way, try to find ways to to to require landowners building owners to invest in their properties in substantial ways, even if there's no return to them for that effort. I got some ideas, but that's a that's a big assignment I think that's basically as far as the buildings task group. I think that's the that's the that's the scary part of this is how do we possibly what buttons can we push to make to cause people who already have existing buildings that are doing the job that are financially bringing in the books every month. How do we get those people to participate in this grand project. Thanks Chris, I would like to myself. Add on just section add on to that thought. Which is part of our job today is to start to identify. What is it we're actually after. So that as we further down the road, start to identify ways to get what we're after. We're actually getting the things we're after, not some other thing. Yeah, and that that thought that and those thoughts that about accessibility and accessibility to benefit and the relationship between the control of renter has and the control of landlord has and how how those decisions are made. I'm understanding that we don't know how that get particular principle gets met. But we know that it's a principle that we care about and it should be driving how we make decisions. John was a comment first. Thanks, Jim. First I want to say that I appreciate the comments that have been made by both cam and gazette about the situation with affordable housing in Amherst despite the fact that I chair the housing trust. I have no disagreement with anything that they have said those problems are there and for some of the things they've mentioned it's at a greater depth frankly than I'm personally familiar with Chris also talked about. So we get what we think should be going on into the town process, not just necessarily through the ECAC but elsewhere, and I'm going to suggest two avenues for that. One is the affordable housing trust itself, and I will be glad to send a description of the trust and what it's done in its recent history to Stephanie to be distributed so everyone can see that that's going on. One of the activities that the trust completed almost a year ago was developing an affordable housing policy for the town that was presented to town council, and it was killed for a variety of reasons. However, the promise was that the town council would instead try to develop a general town housing policy that would include affordable housing. It's now been almost a year since that promise has been made, but the Community Resources Committee have just taken up the question of how we can develop a general housing policy. I think some of the things that both Gazette and Cam have said could be directed there as well as to the housing trust. I think the first meeting when that will be discussed is Tuesday, August 18, but check the town website if you want to know the person to be in contact with as a chair of the CAC, who is Mandy, Joe Hanna key. So if people will send me their emails, I'll be glad to communicate more about what's going on to the extent that I'm familiar with it. That's great. Thank you, John. This, this is, yeah. If town policy changes to require landlords to ensure equity, that would help with all of the environmental goals as well. Folks with more needs are more likely to give back in my experience, meaning that the town would essentially get more by changing policy than it would lose. By making Amherst better for citizens of diversity and making it part of the policy, then citizens who want to work towards climate change, we constantly force out of the town. If I bring all the money to the table to make things accessible, I've still been turned down. We need to work with them towards understanding the impact not working towards this is having is even if money weren't a problem, they don't care. If owners of buildings better understand where we can build bridges and hopefully work towards a greener future. People who have never lived through the problems we are talking about won't get it. We need a city council who cares because right now it seems they don't, or at least just don't want to listen. Beautifully stated. Comment. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, I am an Amherst. I live in one of the apartment complexes with my son. And I mean, I have chosen to live here in order for him to attend the school. He's now a freshman, he's going to be a sophomore and college. So I'm like, okay, it's time for me to leave because it's expensive. You know, you're paying more for rental than what you would pay if you own a home. But you can't really afford that. But, you know, one of the problems I find, you know, just being at different tables, being part of the union, just being, I think one of the problems is, you know, friends said this to me the other day. And, and I think that's how I really go into situations is that whenever you're in so you know the town council all these people. They lack lens, the people that are at the table making decisions. Don't have the lens, or have different perspective to weigh in. And one of the things that I learned is that it when you're at the table making decisions decisions have to be made. So the lens taken into consideration, the people who are most vulnerable, and the people who are most disadvantaged, because the reality, the other people will be fine. But if you're able to look at that, and start it's like with black lives matter right, the whole purpose of that is like, okay, you know, so the people who are being affected the black and the black people are who are being killed at the hands of the police. Those are the people whose voices and perspective and whatever policies are made, have to be think, thinking of those people are the bottom of the food chain. So again, you know when you're going to think about affordable housing people have to whatever policies are being made. Those are the lens from which they have to operate. Because at the end of the day, those are the people that is going to affect the most. Very, very again a very clear statement Georgia thank you. Yeah, thank you so much Georgia I just wanted to see you lose my life I just wanted to say, I completely agree that it's a really helpful analogy to think about, you know, the, the whole argument. Oh, why don't all lives matter. Well it's because we're emphasizing the people who are getting killed are the black people and so if we want to focus on the base problem we need to say black lives matter and in this situation the analogy can extend to. If we want this 20 by 2050 net zero, then, if you have 40% of the people who live in your town who are renters, you're going to have to figure out a way to work with their landlords, because if 40% of the town is not doing anything about this zero thing, the town won't be able to meet its goals, I would imagine, because we're a pretty big percentage of the town. And as you've seen here, we don't have much of a voice. And like Georgia said, if we're not at the table if people who have the needs that we're starting to notice here aren't at the table making the decision, then it doesn't matter what your goal is or how ambitious the goal is. It's not going to be Matt. Thanks. Martha Georgia. Ludmila, go ahead. I thought Carla had her hand before me but I wanted to follow up a little on what Chris said about our overarching goal being to establish some means by which we can encourage everybody to pitch in so that we can reduce our greenhouse gas emissions and get to net zero in some way. And it seems to me a lot of it is about the envelope of our buildings, certainly from my house. One of the problems is I have led on my windows. I'd have to replace all the windows costs a lot of money. I have a hard time thinking through on my budget, how to do that. I think landlords may be somewhat similar, but they may not be as wonky as I am in terms of looking for solutions at all. So a lot of the problems that you that were discussed about bugs coming in and core screening and just bad sort of exterior envelope of buildings could be fixed as well. If one does an exterior envelope remodel of a building. And I do think that businesses have greater opportunities to help their financial bottom line. So if we can set up some means by which we can not just sort of offer a club and I really don't know much about this group and what we can and can't do. It's only my first meeting. So please excuse me if I'm jumping the gun but I would love to see a carrot and a club. They articulated and the town help to set up really like meetings between financial institutions investors and business owners and renter and landlords in particular to focus on those buildings that are leaking air and heat that probably have very high energy utilization in the winter and equally high in the summer if people have to run their air conditioner in order to keep the bugs from coming in. So finding some way to talk about improvement of the envelope of the older structures might be a really important way to at least try to grab at it. And I don't know what the town can do, whether we can make a minimum whether we can require everyone to share their energy utilization intensity. For example, let's just find out how much electricity and how much heat is being used in buildings in town as a way of finding the low hanging fruit and helping people to get better efficiency in their buildings. That's the way it went on. What does carrot and club mean. In some ways, a club is essentially an authoritarian approach towards setting a limit right saying you will be penalized. You will be hit with a club. You will be being wrong. So if you if we decide to set up a energy utilization utilization benchmark and require people to report their fuel fossil fuel use in some way everyone gets a bill everybody knows what they're spending we can do. We did agree house gas emissions calculation from all from the town of Amherst because we asked people, what do you buy in terms of what do you burn. Right. So that's the club. It's some kind of a statement that says people or landlords, let's say in this case that have buildings where there are too many complaints from the owner from from those who are renting. Must then go in and repair and we will start finding you if you don't fix your exterior envelope and the carrot being the incentive to help landlords find financing to provide an award for best landlord to find ways to sort of improve or encourage landlords to do better. Okay, thanks. So that's that idea of incentivizing and what was it the It's the difference between sort of incentive. Thanks. Yeah. Um, Cam, just in a moment to find a place. I just want to acknowledge that Cam was waiting for a little bit. So these may be about some of the topics we were talking about earlier. It's easier to silence others that you don't that don't understand than to sit down and listen to them and learn and move forward. If people are being silenced then this town will never get where we want to go green energy or otherwise. I've been so discouraged to do anything with this town due to being silenced constantly over a variety of things. If we want citizens to participate to get us to our goal for climate change. Actively silencing them is not the way to encourage them to work together to fix this. We all need to be on board to achieve this particular goal and it'll never happen without people getting the bare minimum respect we deserve as humans. I would have never known about any of this as town meetings weren't accessible for deaf folks when when recorded in still art. I wouldn't have ever known. We were trying to work towards this goal and I've had to fight to be here every step of the way. I can only imagine how frustrating it is for other citizens. I think it's better for the environment. If not, everyone even has the access to understands our goals to begin with. Thank you cam. It's a great, great sentiment. And part of what we're trying to do a little bit of work with here. Stephanie. I just want to thank cam, especially for that last comment. It's really important. And again, as Jim said, it is what we're trying to do something different here, just sort of show the way. I just wanted to comment also to Ludmila's point that this group, what we're doing is making suggestions for a plan. This is only advisory. We even the energy and climate action committee doesn't make the decisions. They don't have the final say. But because this is a process that includes a variety of perspectives and viewpoints. There's a lot of value to those suggestions. When they go before the decision makers. So that is why we're doing it this way. And I just want to be clear. I don't want people to have false expectations that we can say something is going to happen and it's going to happen. We can't, we can just say what we would like to happen and work to make it behind the scenes. Janine just had one more thing to share. Janine, you can go ahead if you're so ready. Okay. I feel like as a renter, we should have more rights, because I feel that the panelists can be really hard on us. But if I'm trying to say, okay, you fixed this, but it's still needs to be fixed again. It's like, no one wants to listen. And if they make a mistake, it's like it doesn't matter. If we make a mistake, it's like the end of the world. And I feel like we should be able to say how we feel and what's going on since we're the ones living in the apartment. And, you know, right now it's like, I have a list of things that need to be done, but it's like, I just feel like we should be heard more. Thank you so much, Janine. So right on. It sounds okay. Go for it, Terza. And then the other thing also is, I think, you know, my apartment, it's electric heat. And I don't remember hearing anyone say that, but it's electric heat. And I mean, there has to be. So, you know, you look at the, you know, the system, right? It's electric. And then you look at, you know, how can it be more efficient, the kind of equipment that we have, you know, the microwave or the fridge or whatever, you know, and, and how they can really look, you know, all those things have to be factored in, right? So, you know, it's more efficient and, you know, and work towards sustainability. So that was just a thought that I think electric is just totally, totally wrong. So that, Georgia, is a really important statement to make. There's this very, I don't know, whatever. It's an interesting tension in the world of sort of sustainable buildings. The tension can be summed up by a lot of people feel that buildings should be all electric because burning gas is a problem from a greenhouse gas perspective. But if you live in an all electric building, it's a problem. That's not ideal. And I bet it got pretty hot last night. And so the question of like, well, not only is it expensive, but if the electricity goes down, which seems to happen around here, then all of a sudden you got nothing. So those are really important. Those are things we need to figure out. How do we answer those questions? Georgia, sorry. I mean, you know, it all comes down to the bottom line, right? The cost is like everyone wants to eat organic food. But it's so it people can't afford it. So I mean, the reality is, I mean, I think over the life of the building, you know, the investors or whomever will recoup their funds, but people are really hesitant, or it's really counterproductive because in order to build the kind of buildings that make sense. And it's just going to be too expensive to do it upfront to begin with, you know, so it's difficult. That is a test. That is a very important thing to bring forward, right? Where that difficulty lives. And don't forget to unmute yourself. Thank you, Georgia. Who did you call on John? Yeah, it was for me. I'm to talk. Oh, I have an electric house. It is, but it doesn't have baseboard radiation that I suspect that's what Georgia has. And then that's night and day, absolutely night and day. So I have a heat pump. And that's the, we should all get used to that word heat pumps. We have to get, we've got to somehow invest in all the existing building stock and electrify it because we can't burn fossil fuels anymore. We're going to get to net zero by 2050. But just putting in electric baseboard heating is not going to get us there because that uses. I'm going to say eight times the electricity or eight times the energy that my heat pumps in my heat bumper my house does. It's terrific system on my house is net zero. It's all electric. And it. And that's what we've got it. And I have converted my existing house took out an oil fired boiler and put in heat pump and put in solar on the roof. Because I can afford it. And that's the problem. Many people, many, many people can't afford it. And then many people don't choose to afford it. That's that second problem is probably more of this more serious one. Anyway, I'm done speaking about heat pumps. Thanks, Chris. So the, this is, I think, again, part of one of the principles that I think we, it sounds like it's coming out of the conversation, which is sort of making sure that we do things that actually make people's lives better and less expensive. And that goes to just making them lower carbon. Because he kind of did you want to say something. Yeah, I just wanted to acknowledge that we're right at the end of our time and we have a right. Oh no, we're going to eight. Thank goodness. Our other meeting was still 730. I was so wrong. Cam has a thought. That's great though. John, yeah. Okay, so Cam, did Cam have a thought? Okay. Yeah, sorry. Go ahead. I didn't just miss that. That's okay. My suggestions make the town meetings accessible for understanding so citizens are on board as per the ADA law incentivize the existing landlords to encourage accessibility maybe help provide them resources for funding or the town finds funding for accessibility. Don't allow landlords to discriminate against tenants due to differing access needs when it comes to buildings, redo public spaces to ensure access to everyone. Work with electric companies on an incentive plan for low income folks to pay less so that the electric company is also held accountable towards green energy. Don't constantly have to redo the bus stops or other green energy measures because the town didn't think before they started construction make sidewalks easier to use so people choose to walk places. I don't want to say more, but I feel like we've, what I've pulled from what I've been said so far actually things that we can do also stop putting money towards things, citizens fields are ineffective and rerouted towards the goal to this goal. John. Hey, Chris, can you now mute yourself? Or maybe Lauren can. Sorry, could you repeat the last sentence, Carla. I just missed it. Also stop putting money towards things citizens feel are ineffective and reroute it towards this goal. Thank you. John. There have been a lot of interesting and worthwhile ideas that have been discussed so far this evening. But I'm not sure that I want to be a part of this committee. I actually don't want to be part of an advisory committee. I don't want to be part of a committee that just assembles recommendations and send them off into the ether in the hope that somebody will take them up. I want to be part of an advocacy committee, a committee that at the same time it considers what changes there should be also considers how to get from here to there. And earlier that I'm chair of the Amherst municipal affordable housing trust. I'm also chair of another non-town committee that I created, which is the affordable housing advocacy coalition. It doesn't meet quite as often because it's hard to keep up. The point is that there's only so many people who are part of the housing trust. And I felt like we needed to get more people involved and people who explicitly are taking on the task of advocacy, who learn about what the issues are, and also how to advocate for them both in town and on a state level. I think that should be a part of our task. I don't think we should consider ourselves to be an advisory committee, but rather an advocacy committee. Anyone else like to comment on that. Stephanie. Thank you, John. And I think that's a good clarification. And I would actually say, and I apologize, I would see this group, the task groups specifically as more advocacy groups. I think, technically, the energy and climate action committee is an advisory committee. That's just technically how they are framed in the town. They're not a decision making body like the town council. But this group isn't is for sure an advocacy group. Absolutely. Thanks, John that that actually is a very clarifying comment. And part. Yeah, Georgia. I agree with John, you know, Amherst loves to have committees, and the committees end up doing nothing. I mean, it's a waste. I really don't. It's because I know gas it very well. And she asked me to because I don't really waste my time on committees, because nothing happens. I'm someone about getting stuff done. And I honestly, you know what I'm saying, I really I'm just going to be honest. I'm a straight shooter. I don't, I mean, I don't get involved because I get really frustrated. Because Amherst people like to talk they'll talk from here to never ending. And it's a way as far as I'm concerned, to just spin circles and get nothing done because people are really not open. You know, to ideas, they're not open to, you know, and I'm going to be honest when I go into spaces I create tension I am going to push boundaries and I'm going to challenge stuff that's there and, you know what I'm saying so I just don't have time for you because I totally agree with John it's like because the people who are making decisions are really out of touch. They have no idea and that is so frustrating and that's when committees or councils lack diversity. I am part of, I just created something in Amherst, the local union is going to be unprecedented. We had the president resigned because we are like we are developing a anti racist organization. The board members know are going to be majority people of color representative across the board. So I don't you know what I'm saying, we had a call to action. And I mean so I don't have time to just talk and talk and talk. And then it gets all the bureaucracy like, no, there's a there's a need. And, you know, again, the people who are at the bottom of the food chain are the people who don't have any voice. And I'm saying the people who are at the top of the food chain are the ones who are going to get things done and they're going to keep things in center school but they want it to appear that. Oh yeah, it's great. No it's not great. It's croc. Thanks Georgia. It's true. I really twisted her arm to be a part of this. And I'm so grateful that you are here because of how powerful your perspective is. So thank you. I would agree. Thank you for taking everybody, but thank you Georgia for being, being willing to step into this. Cam. Jesse will come to you in a minute. We should be allowed to make a committee like that and then be taken seriously, but we won't be with the town council we have based on what we've seen thus far. I think if we want change, we need to get a council who actually will listen. I honestly hope this is taken seriously by decision making bodies, but I'm uncertain. As a deaf person I agree Georgia, there's so much talk and so little action. The only action seemed to be to exclude people trying to create change. We need people who want to be actively create change we don't need people who will waste time and then not follow through on improving the town, or will keep people out by, but then claim otherwise. We don't need performative justice we need action. So you know the reality is the union is teaming up with the with the district and you know I'm really behind that I'm insisting that we put funds towards that. It's breaking down white supremacy culture and that's what exists in Amherst. I mean people like to think that they're social justice gurus and all that good stuff but reality is Amherst is seeped in white supremacy culture. And people really I don't know if the council and you know people can attend these workshops and really nothing come out of it. People can sit in spaces that say they identify as a person of color. But identify as a person of color and live in those experiences is two different things, because it's how you know races are social construct, and it's how you live in this world. So you can look like a you can identify as a person of color, but you are having the privilege of a white person because that's how you're perceived in the world. And those two people can jockey on both sides, you know they will take they will have the advantages of say oh yeah my person of color so in terms of jobs or whatever however they use it so their benefit. And then when they're out in the world, you're not going to refuse a privilege. So this is why you know I always advocate for having diverse voices. So you know you look at the council. It's all white people I mean they're supposed to be someone of color there but she's not she she is she's a white woman she is perceived her her experiences. She cannot so when you're in that space. It is just absurd because they're not able to really understand and you know, really what people are saying isn't resonating, and they lack the skills. So what we're doing here right now. It really doesn't matter when we when it's taken back to them because they will not be able to process it or understand it or identify with where we're coming from. And that's really you know like I look back at the school committee when they made this, when when the finance manager said oh, let's use prison labor for, you know, redoing the chairs in this school. And it became this firestorm why, because there was not a black or brown person on that committee to say guys. I don't think it is such a great, a great idea, because the people on the school committed then they have two people of color now. Really, you know, they don't get it. So again, you know, I do concur with john like, um, you know people have to be serious I mean, I just I don't have time I met with with with with a town manager the other day with is it facilitated a meeting and, you know, I have to pick my battles because one of the things you know, with the Black Lives Matter movement I said, Listen, you know, who are the people who are interviewing these cops? What does the committee look like? I said you have to do a, you know, come up I said the district came up with this policy, which I was a part of working on a 14 member committee that we go through all this process now about hiring. We have a, we have a committee that screens the candidates we have a committee that interviews the committee they have to do an anti bias training, and there's this whole process, and that the committee has to be diverse. Do you know what I'm saying, and he basically said it was too much work. And so I just, you know, and I had a committee. I had people come together in a zoo meeting Asian Spanish, you know, Indian kids, adults, and it was just disappointing, because people are not committed to the work. They want to waste time and just, you know, make it seem as if they're really doing stuff. But, you know, Thank you, Georgia. I don't think this is a space for me because I really just my truth and that's what I'm about. You know, it's so important Georgia and I so respect you being just being really real with us and feel free to step in and out as you need to because I know that it is not nothing to say those powerful words. And we don't need to put ourselves in that situation so constantly, exactly like you said. If you don't live it, you can't understand so that's when you need to listen and do what the people being oppressed ask of you. If the town council did that the town would be much better off. If they're busy silencing us, nothing will get done, especially not when it comes to green energy. We don't have the time to work towards green energy if we're too busy trying to survive all the barriers the town won't help break through. If the council doesn't break down those barriers as needed, we can't focus on green energy. Thank you for saying all that Georgia. And then Jesse. Um, you know, I just really appreciate Georgia being so real. I think what's been very difficult for me personally through this whole process, especially in the last several weeks is that I'm working on a lot of racial justice from like a community perspective in the town with the town council with members of the ECAC. And then I'm also trying to do this job. So it's like I have two conflicting hats on and my experience with the town council has been very similar to the other people who have spoke about just how it seems that there is just a total lack of response to what big numbers of the community are speaking out against huge numbers of black indigenous and people of color have been voicing their opinions and needs to the town council in the last couple of weeks and it has gone with literally no response. And there's a huge part of me that like John was saying, has felt like I don't want anything to do with them anymore, and I only want to organize just as a person in Amherst. And the other piece of it for me is that I also need a paycheck because I'm a single parent, and this was a job opportunity that came up for me. Right after I lost my job because of COVID and I'm trying to do the best version of this job that I can with my ethics and my values, but as Stephanie and Jim and Lauren have all heard a lot from me about how there's a huge part of me that just is very frustrated with the reality that our town is not is so steeped in white supremacy culture that it feels very hopeless and frustrating and defeating and exhausting to continue to try to have these conversations. And yeah, I mean, some of you may have seen in the video my, the briefing video that we made that my comments were very much like, we can come here and we can try to do this work but if no one does anything with it, then it will be worse than if we didn't come at all, because for those of us putting ourselves in the position to have our hearts racing and talk about really uncomfortable topics in front of people that we don't necessarily trust. All that's going to do is just wear us out more and we're already disempowered enough. And I am trying to keep some sort of hope, but this is this is a reality that that there's not a lot of hope and trust. I have thought of leaving Amherst altogether many times, even though I love it here because of all these issues. I'm starting to feel like this town is not solvable if the town council continues to do nothing. This is the case for my child safety every day here compared to other towns that white people may worry for their children safety. That shouldn't be what Amherst is known for. We need to change Amherst's legacy and green energy needs to be tied into all the changes as we go. That would seem to be our job. Stated so well. Jesse, do you want to. What I originally raised my hand to say was that I really wanted to stick to this topic and not let and not move on to the next one. And that's been done. And I, and I want to as humbly as I can echo that I do think that is our job that and one will not work without the other and I know these are just words. But I am, I'm going to say it. And we will try. Yeah, John. John, to go ahead. You need to unmute. Well, I agree with Gazette that working with the town council is difficult. Maybe occasionally seems like it's impossible. It hasn't always been that way. And we just need to find more ways of breaking through. The other thing that I was going to mention is that the housing trust did do something recently. And if people aren't familiar with it and they know somebody who might be in need of this service. I wanted to mention it. And again, I'll send something through Stephanie so everyone can see it. We initiated an emergency rental assistance program for people who have difficulty paying their rent because they've lost income as a result of the changes brought about by COVID-19. It's not the most generous program, but it's a start. We hope that if there is a need out there will be able to expand it in some way. But at this point, Community Action Pioneer Valley is acting as the administrator for the program. And people can go to their website. Again, I'll provide more information to apply online or to ask for a paper application to be admitted to this program. Thank you. Thank you, John. I will mention I'm working on that application right now. And it is like writing a thesis for a PhD. It is so unbelievably complicated. And because I, all my work as independent contractor, you have to have all sorts of levels of proof of income and think statements and all these things and it's really very complicated. So please, if you want to look at that, ask me first before you get too far into the application because it's really daunting. And I think pretty hard to qualify from what I can tell. One, that just brings up one other principle I thought of is that when we talk about housing, a lot of times what is talked about is affordable housing. And that's income dependent. And for people like myself, I work to the extent that I make too much to qualify for any affordable housing. Most of the people that I know that have problems paying their rent, it's because they make too much. And so there's a whole bunch of us that live in this in between land of making too much money to qualify for help, but not enough to actually pay our bills. Right. And I think actually the principle that comes up there because Zika is the principle of if you're going to do something that is affecting people, you probably need those people helping you figure out what it is you're doing. It seems so simple. I would just say, we should talk offline. If I understand the issues that you're facing, I can talk to Community Action Pioneer Valley about potentially simplifying the application, not in the next week, but maybe in the next few weeks. So future applicants of whom you may be one won't face those issues. In addition, programs are expanding so that we're not necessarily as restricted as we are, or have been to 80% area median income, there may be some opportunities to go above that. Awesome. And I'd also like to bring sort of bring back that thought about renters rights and ways to think about what renters rights mean, and that there are, there might be ways for that to be something that is sort of that comes out of this process or a process, you know, something that's not necessarily this process, but it is related to this process. Whatever people feel like might make sense. Cam. Yeah, go ahead, Cam. It is our job and we need action. We can't continue to do the job with no action. No action means we aren't doing anything. We need to hear from the folks more at risk and this isn't happening folks of diversity have the best ideas when it comes to thriving and hard times. We need to listen to them to get ideas for our green energy goals as well. Okay. I imagine we'll find more solutions if we provide an open door and then to act on it rather than, and then act on it rather than talk. Thank you. Yeah. Stephanie and we were getting now we are getting to finding down time. Everybody stay late. But the first thing I was going to say is I was just going to give us a time warning. And I just wanted to say, particularly to the comments that were made by cam and Georgia and john. I didn't really hear you and I couldn't agree more. I have worked for the town for a long time. And I have to say that that's why we're trying to do this differently. And that's why you're here and why we need your voices in this process. Because in the past, when we did this the first time, a long time ago, I was fairly new to the town still and I was very early in my career and didn't honestly know better. I didn't understand how the town was structured and what the population was. That's why it's so important that you're here today and part of this process. So I hope you do see this as advocacy and not just you're contributing to something that will go nowhere. This process is being noticed by members of the council. And I'm hoping it's just paving the way for meetings to be like this in town in the future. So that's just my, I just personally wanted to say that to you all and how much I appreciate all the work as Ikea did in bringing you here today and your willingness to be here today and to share as honestly as you have. It's really important and thank you so much. Indeed, thank you. Thank you very much. I am going to close it down. Final final comments absolutely camp. I've been asking for access over a year to these things just last week I was not able to have access. This is still a problem. I just know I just need you to know it's still a problem. Yeah, I would like to note that while we are making an effort in this setting to do a better job is by no means the best possible job. We're taking some steps. We need to make it better. And I, as someone sort of trying to facilitate this process, asked for help to make it better. And how do we, how do we make it better. Sarah. Yeah, I, I've been quietly listening to each and every person who spoke tonight and I too just want to extend deep gratitude for you showing up as your whole and full self tonight and sharing honestly and openly with us. It's not easy and I want to recognize that and say thank you and I'm looking forward to the rest of our conversations as we keep keep digging in. Thank you. So, again, I'd like to really thank everybody just a moment to summarize what we're hearing about. It doesn't work for us not to bring everybody into the conversation in a way that actually works. There are some decisions about you know our green plans that are green plans. You have to include everyone or they are not green at all. That seems to be one of the key things that have come up. And just to follow up. We are taking notes. We will put all this together will share all this with the task group. And so you'll have a chance to see those notes to comment on those notes. And and then we will schedule another meeting probably for about three weeks from now. And that will be the next chance for us to take these principles and to really start to think about what do they mean for doing things rather than talking around in circles. It's time for us to make our plans. What do we what are we doing what are we advocating for. I thought that perspective of being an advocacy committee and we're advocating is key to making action. We have one final thing. That is a set of questions for you to think about. As you head out of the meeting and maybe ask a few people. That you know. To answer. And write those answers down. And send them or hand them to gazikaya who will put them all together for us and we'll share them at the next meeting. You know, Jesse or Sarah, you want to. Set that question the questions up. Yeah, so we have. One in particular so this will help us start to frame more conversations for next week. So between now and maybe three weeks from now if you get the opportunity. Maybe you could ask two to three neighbors or friends. What experiences have you had with buildings where they were fixed quickly and cheaply. Where have you seen that happen and what did that create for that building in terms of livability, workability, etc. Yeah, and you'll receive that. Like Sarah said in an email from me and we can talk. And we'll type that in an email so you don't have to memorize it. But just a nugget for you to think about. Quickly and cheaply. Versus more slowly and for the long term. Yeah. Yeah. I think that, like Sarah said in an email from me and we can talk. Through your responses or you can send them to me in an email. So boy, right at eight o'clock. Sort of scary and. Yeah. I'll let it go at that. And anybody have any final. Yeah. I missed that. Thank you. You know, I appreciate the homework assignment. But there are hundreds of communities across the country who have written climate plans for their towns and some of them have probably included social justice thoughts. So I think that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea. Before the next meeting. I just wanted to ask Sarah and Jesse what that might be. Given the time, I think I'd invite you. Anyone who wants to take things further or deeper. To reach out to Sarah, Jesse or Stephanie or myself. Certainly if you have more energy, we will take it. So go ahead and reach out. And I can help you with that one, Lydia. Yeah. Great question. Thank you. Climate action plans. We've written a few ourselves. You were, you were muted. Yeah. Thank you. I just want to reiterate that. Yes. Reach out. For on any topic. To coordinate and, and let's, let's. This roll up our sleeves. However we can. Fantastic. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for sharing. Cam, working so hard to. To, I'm sorry, we make you work so hard. And Georgia, thank you so much for. Really sharing yourself and your real. Self in this process. John. Other than Stephanie. And because the, I don't believe I have anybody's email. So reaching out is not a piece of cake. But for the job, whatever. Any or through because he KIA. Yeah. We'll help you. Get connected. Yep. Great. All right. Thank you. Thank you so much. We'll see you. Thank everybody. Until next time. Thank you.