 I want to jump right in with some thoughts about how some of these presentations are connected, but I wanted to drill down a little bit more. Yo yo on this concept of the relationship between the margins and the center or your metaphor the scout on the margins. Now, if you can illustrate what this scout is because I see that scout role is like a leader is a type of leadership to be honest with you and I see myself as as a scout. And I sometimes describe myself as somebody who's invisibly productive because I have been historically marginalized. I've been able to probably get more done, because I'm often relegated to the outside. So, while they're not paying attention. I am gathering my community of people that I do trust and we are very productive. And so I see all of us probably working in this kind of way, or have been before we became hyper visible, and very much so function at the center. But I want to hear your thoughts about this idea of invisibly productive that the work of the scout, maybe this is the next book we'll write this together but what are your thoughts and please other panelists chime in on this idea your work on the margins especially Sharon I mean you're certainly, you know, bringing attention to what's happening to women on the margins as well and shall we need to write with choice work. So I just, yeah, this is exciting. So I want to hear more I want to flush this out a little bit more. I'll start for 30 seconds and say, you've all been to beaches, public beaches. You first you go into the entrance, you have a ton of people on the beach. It's very crowded. You walk 100 yards away crowd things out, you walk 200 yards away there's nobody there. You're there. There's less density. That means you have more room to think. You have more room to listen. The places are very noisy. There's a lot of hierarchy. You know, you're close to the seat of power there's a lot of stuff people jostling around there said, you know, it's, it's fine it's exciting, but, and you know that with any organization, it gets up to a certain point, you're spending a lot of time, trying to communicate and making sure everything is going well, the smaller organizations are more nimble. So it's easier to, to, in some ways, you may be more lonely, but you can also possibly think better up to you. Nice. I love the idea of the cap of the scout the one that's doing the reconnaissance. They're the, they're the first to see something. It doesn't necessarily mean they're right. But, but it's something new to chew over. And I think that's always good. The same thing all the time. Boring, boring, boring. No, I love what, what has been said of that matter, metaphor of moving further to the margins, so that you can think original thoughts and not be so crowded by the seat of power. I think that working as an independent filmmaker, I completely relate and what I want to say is that that is brave territory out there, and that you need a lot of support oftentimes I liken it to being in the jungle with a machete. I'm trying to make my way because oftentimes when you are the first, you are the only, and you know, there's no one like you in the room, you are doing that work. And so I think that those of us who are, are out there on the, in the margins the scouts, we have to take really good care of ourselves and make sure that we have good support systems. It's not lying, it's taxing, it's brave, brave work. And the world is better for it. Yeah, I was actually wondering if that's the case for you. I mean, do you have your, your community of folks that you can lean on and lead into and look to for what I call root juice or, you know, that really important emotional psychosocial whatever kind of support you need at any one time. Do you have that community. I feel really lucky because I do. I have very close friends and a very close family. And they haven't always not everyone understands what I'm doing. My mother being one of them she still doesn't understand what I'm doing. But I think that what's important when so many of us have to perform in situations where we are the first and the only in the room. We have spaces where we don't, where we're not that. And also, I think when we have to show up as a professional every day in our careers. We need those spaces where we can say this happened to me, like when I was listening to Sharon talk about the trauma that women have gone through in the sciences. You need a space like I hope that Nancy Hopkins came home and had a circle of girlfriends that she could have a glass of wine with and say, this is what happened to me at work today. Because when she is at work she has to show up as a professional and fight the brave fight. And you don't get to bring your emotions to work. And so I think that those spaces that emotional resilience can't be underestimated because it's necessary when you're blazing a trail. Excellent. Thank you so much. I'm going to turn to the q&a now. An anonymous attendee has asked us how we can better foster collaboration between the arts and STEM fields in higher education so thinking specifically about higher ed. This has been on my mind a lot as a professor who I have a degree and I have a PhD in philosophy, but my training background is in media theory, and I'm a documentary filmmaker. So I'm in all these different and I work in the sciences so I spent time in these different spaces, but I see how they are woefully disconnected. And so bridging the divide between the humanities which seems to me decades into the future on certain issues and topics, even looking at STEM, trying to get stem to think about itself in different kinds of ways. So in the humanities we've been talking about decolonizing stem, for example, but then you go into science, they're like, we don't know what this word decolonization even is. I'm, you know, I'm being funny here but but it's partly true so how do we how do we get these different spheres to start talking to each other and work together better. How do we change the structures, even if possible have we thought about that at all. I want to go to yo yo have you found yourself being invited into these more rigid spaces stem spaces to to get them thinking in different ways so how do you use your work in, you know, in stem spaces, and I guess this is going to be awful if we can be a little bit brief because we're coming to the end of this but I'm very curious to hear what what you have to say about this. Two things I think a liberal arts education teaches us different ways of thinking that every discipline has a language, right a frame of thinking from which we then progress. And I think, first of all, in the enlightenment. Natural philosophy was the umbrella over the arts and sciences. Recently, Antonio de Masio wrote Descartes error, among other books. And one of the things he pointed to was rational thinking took over the discussion of who humans and society, the relationship between humans and society. So, and with two quotes, the first quote is with Andy gold for the artist works in nature with natural materials, and his quote is, we are part of nature. If we feel disconnected from nature is because we're disconnected from ourselves. And the second quote is from Richard final physicist, who said, nature has the greatest imagination. The arts are secrets. Jealousy. So, both people claim we're part of nature. And one of the things that we've kind of been put put aside a little bit is that we focused on humans and society and really human invention as the top of the food chain. If we think that we're part of nature. It's still arts and sciences, where they're many, the both truths are there. And I think, going back to that using that each investigation uses very specific techniques and, and imagination, the hunch, but then we experiment with what we work with in order to find something that is communicable communicative powerful thank you so much. And, you know, as a social philosopher, I could, I could get into that so much more but we don't have a lot of time so I do want to encourage our panelists to, if you would like to look through some of the questions here and respond if you have an interest in particular topics here, you can type responses as well. I, Lydia how much more time do we have is that will influence how I proceed with the question. We have a 15 minute break schedule at this time so you can take up to five, I built that in so that we would have some leeway. Okay, five. So more questions about the way that artists and scientists and engineers can work together to solve societal problems. One platform for this has been the creative place making initiative, as led by art place. This is really interesting so bringing artists together with scientists I'm sure that there are some really interesting models out there. I think at NSF, I'd be really interested to hear about them. I'm not aware of them at this time, but I would love to learn more about that so if anybody has more information on that. Please type them into the answer box. I'm going to post modernism of a horror flashbacks my dissertation as the intersection between creativity, arts and scouting in the seeds. Yes, exactly. So sometimes being a scout means you are out looking for what could be without any knowledge yes exactly music this reminds me of then new forms of music such as jazz exactly. I'm going to add a little comment if you want to add to that. So lots of thank yous to our panelists and more questions about the intersection between the humanities, arts, and the sciences. This is probably too too long to get into because now we only have about a couple minutes. A lot of people are interested in this concept yo yo of scouts and the margins and how to be productive there so that's really spoken to a lot of people here. Another anonymous attendee is asking could this be where our liberal arts colleges play a role. And actually, you know, I want to talk about NSF here because not just the liberal arts colleges but what can NSF do to start talking about this and even if you look at the structure of NSF there. This is a silo, you know, a silo application is that a word, a segmenting a disconnect between the human focused work and they hard science methodologies and approaches and I think that we're starting to talk about how these federal agencies are structured because NSF goes down to higher ed. So are there any thoughts and perhaps here Lydia you might want to chime in the funding agencies are they starting to think about the ways in which they are are bridging the humanities and the arts with the sciences is this happening. This NSF has a long history of supporting films like the ones you've been doing and like Shalini's. They also support writers and other endeavors where the arts overlap. One of the smallest institute or division at NSF is the social science division, which is increasing gained increasing influence over the past decade or so, because it is folks from those disciplines who really need to interact there. They may provide the bridge between the arts philosophy and the natural scientists who tend to be undereducated in these arenas and uninterested because they are undereducated. And so the social scientists who can speak to both languages can help bridge that gap. It's beginning to happen but it's kind of slow. And so I think we'll see a hopefully we'll see more of that and NSF certainly has a role to play, not only at the in higher ed, but they're also quite concerned the education division is very concerned with the education of K through 12, because if we don't set that kind of foundation in place, then we're already behind the eight ball. And I'm afraid as a country we are behind the eight ball. Right. Thank you so much. I did want to ask, and this is just one last comment I know we have to go, but we did start talking a little bit about science communication. We use the term science communication, but it's really also about transmission of knowledge and knowledge is right. So sometimes I feel like we are not doing it justice by just saying science communication because people want to put that in a box but it's about transmission of knowledge, and, and it's culturally distinct to right the shows up differently and indigenous spaces versus spaces of African heritage. So, I just wanted to, I wanted to say that in my research I've learned that, you know, all people wanted participate in STEM in with the same level of enthusiasm, but probably by the sophomore year of college for example. And a lot of folks who are coming from historically marginalized backgrounds decide to leave for whatever reason they become discouraged, right. And many of us are finding I know many of us are finding our way into it through science communication and the humanities. And so it's an interesting thing that you're seeing that numbers are increasing through the humanities. We're not completely lost from the picture, we're just being picked up by, you know, these other fields that humanities in the arts. So we're sort of reverse engineering our way back into science. So that was my, my capstone comment, but I want to say thank you so much to the participants and the audience and to Lydia but especially the panelists thank you for your insights and more importantly for the work that you are doing. And your significant contributions here in the United States but worldwide. So thank you again to your, your wonderful words. And yes, thanks again for creating this space for this particular conversation. Thanks so much it was an honor. Thank you. Thank you it was a great honor.