 Am I right to say the majority of companies pick a name that wouldn't fall? Do you consider Nike to be a solid name or not so much? You know what a Reebok is? It's a small animal in Africa that's like a little deer. Well, what's an example of a pretty well-known company? I always ask people to guess how fast do you think a video or a good image is processed. And people say, oh, it's 10 times faster. 60,000. A good research on it. MrBeast is a guy that I've known. He's one of the top YouTubers, most followed people in the world. And he told me, you know, his thumbnail is everything. When you name your brand after yourself, it doesn't mean anything to anyone. If you're doing a personal brand, the best name is yours because it's impossible to compete with. All right. Welcome, Alexandra. Is that what I should call you? What, what do you go by? Since we're into names, this is a show about names. Thanks for having me. Oh my gosh. Thank you for asking. I go by Alexandra. Okay. And yeah, I know people try to shorten my name to Alex, but I prefer the long version. Welcome to today's show. This is Ty Lopez. I have Alexandra Watkins on, special guest, author of Eat My Words. And the title today is, You Probably Named Your Company Wrong. And here's why. So I have one of the most well-known brand and naming experts. And am I right to say the majority of companies pick a name that wouldn't fall into the optimal category? I've, I've read your book. I've seen your website where you have the online quiz. We'll put, for those of you listening, we'll have the, the show notes on tylopes.com slash Eat My Words. Tylopes.com slash Eat My Words will take your right to the show notes if you're listening later. And we'll put that quiz, but am I right that the majority, what percentage of businesses will you think just knock it out of the park on naming? Five. Five percent. Like a good one is like Google seems good. Now, maybe it wasn't good when we first thought about it, but, but now they've released branded. What's an example of like, if you had to say the one most scientifically validated brand name in the world, what is it? Well, scientific, I don't know about scientifically validated, but I'll tell you this, I've said this name enough times on calls like this where I can see somebody's face or just hold it to them. And that's, that's validation enough. It's a bike pump, you know, an air pump and it's, it's named Joe Blow. I like it. Joe Blow. That's good. There's a famous case study that a guy, Perry Marshall, one of the first guys teaching digital, making a digital online income. And he used to refer to this company that sold industrial fans and they weren't doing well and they rebranded as bad ass fans and they hired all the, or big ass fans and they got all these big pro football players like William refrigerator, Perry, all these linebackers and they would be our linemen and they would be at conferences and trade shows. They had this big dude, you know, with a big fan. Would you consider that a good name? Big ass fans. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. People love that name. Here's why it's a good name because people talk about it, right? I probably first heard that name 20 years ago, maybe not that long, but you just don't forget names like that and you want your name to be unforgettable. And that's when I, when I said 5%, that's one of those names that's in the 5%. It's really distinctive. It's not for everyone, but that's okay. The people that it is for or just gravitate towards it. So what's an example of a really well known brand that has a not so optimal name but has overcome it? Because obviously it is possible to overcome a horrible name. It's just a pain in the butt. And if you could name it right, you might as well. But what's an example of a pretty well known company? eBay. eBay. Okay. eBay. Why is that? Is this too generic? It's not even generic. It's like it doesn't mean anything to anyone. I'm sure there's some meaning behind it, but it doesn't matter what they were called. They didn't even, it's such a cool platform and such a, you know, so disruptive, right? To use a really overused word that it doesn't matter what they called themselves. Etsy is another one. It's a weird name. It's until you really know it and can remember it, it's hard to remember. Was Nike, do you consider Nike to be a solid name or not so much? I even, when I was writing my book, I was reading about Nike because it's the one name people always list it. I always ask people when they're filling out their creative brief with me to list their top, you know, 10 names that they love. And Nike is always on there, but people pronounce it wrong. And I looked online and there's a guy that works in a running store and he was saying, you wouldn't believe how many times people come in and ask for Nikes in a running store. Yeah, nice. That's cause like European or Spanish, Latin America, they say Nikes. Same with like, I'll tell you a name that's a weird one that probably falls into your suboptimal category, Adidas or Adidas. Like some countries people are like Adidas. So is that one of your, we'll get into this slowly, but surely, but the fundamentals is don't pick a name that people can't agree on the pronunciation. Would that be a good rule of thumb? Yes, excellent rule of thumb, hard to pronounce is bad and you only want your name to be pronounced one way. Right. So let me give you an example. There's a name. It's like a green protein, you know, the powder that you add to your smoothies and the spelling is V E G A. So do you pronounce that Vega like vegan, right? Veggie, like vegetarian or Vega, like the 70s. I've seen that one. I always call Vega. Is it something is it not supposed to be Vega? It is Vega. It is Vega, but Oh, I got it. Yes. But how, I don't know how, how did you know that? Because I thought Vega, like vegan or Vega, like vegetarian. So I, in the only way I know it's pronounced Vega is like called the company after hours to listen to it on their voicemail. Okay. I've got my engineer in here, Rick. What is your favorite brand in the world? And we're going to talk about the name, just any a brand that you buy stuff. It could be anything. Something that just three names that pop in mind. Okay. Sure. S H U R E. He's a sound engineer. So that's not a good name because I would pronounce that shory or sure. What's another, what's just a common brand? Anything doesn't have to be Sinehauser. That's a person's name. And now this doesn't have to be sound. Just any product of anything that comes to mind. A Ford. What do you think of Ford? It's named after Henry Ford. Here's the thing. When you name your brand after yourself, it doesn't mean anything to anyone. It's meaningless. It's only meaningful to people that already know you, but that's not going to help. That's not going to be a magnet to bring in new customers. So let me ask you, let me give you a counter argument. I think you're right, but I think there's a special case because I tested this. When I first started doing personal development, business training, social media, I was like, ooh, millionaire life coach. This is going to be, I paid thousands of dollars. I bought this premium domain names was like 2011 or something. I was like, this is going to crush it. And it was a personal brand, right? It was like a podcast and advice. And I bought millionaire life coach.com. And it just, it did okay, but I switched it to my name, which was Tylobus.com. And I instantly saw a lift and my theory, you correct me if I'm wrong was like, well, if you're doing a personal brand, the best name is yours because it's impossible to compete with, right? So it's like, if people resonate with my advice online, my social media, Tylobus is the best thing to name it because I've seen people name their social media, not their name. And I never, I saw this woman fitness influencer literally yesterday. Her Instagram, her personal Instagram was something like show off workout clothes or something. And I was thinking, what? It should just be her name. So are there special cases? Do you agree with that? Where there's special times like Tony Robbins brand, it's okay for you to come see a Tony Robbins conference as opposed, I mean, he has like, unleashed the power within and all that. But still the average person knows like Tony Robbins. Yeah, that's the name when you were talking, that's the one that popped into my mind. Yeah, if you can build a brand around yourself, but most people can't, right? You have a nice short name and your name is really distinctive too. It doesn't sound like anybody else's name. Right. I think that for most people though, when you're starting out with a blank slate, your name doesn't say anything about you. It's not like you turn on the switch and you are overnight success. I mean, you put a lot of work into developing your own personal brand as Tony Robbins did too. Tony Robbins also had the benefit of doing a lot of infomercials. So for most people that let me give you an example, there's a woman, she's a PR professional. Her name is Lynette Hoy. Lynette Hoy says nothing about her fiery personality, nothing about herself. We rebranded her fire talker PR with the tagline. Okay, I like that. Thank you. And the tagline is hot on the press. She calls herself the fire chief. She works in the firehouse. It's her theme song. And you know, if you have a brand name, you can have a theme song. So her theme song is fire by the Ohio players. And when she does a speaking engagement, she cranks that up and like it gets the crowd excited. And we've all been to speaking engagements where, and I know you do a lot of speaking and you see these cheesy speakers where they're trying to, you know, everybody get on your feet and like clap your hands and it's so cheesy and cringy. Right. But if she's cranking up fire by the Ohio players, she doesn't even have to ask people to like, you know, rock out. Like they're just doing it. It's putting people in the mood. So she has packages like control burn and fire starter. So that's what you can do when you have a name that lends itself to a theme. So like snapchat, is that a decent name in the sense it's like you kind of, it became a verb like snap me, you know, and it is somewhat descriptive. What's the good and bad about a brand like a snapchat name? Um, I mean, snapchat's fine. It's like, you know, it's a compound name. It's, uh, yeah, it's totally fine. It works for them. Um, where like Instagram, I don't know in the beginning, it kind of, but names grow on us. Right. Like Instagram, it's just like Insta, like Instacart, right? It's just so, it's so descriptive and it's not super creative where, uh, like I was naming a food delivery service one time and I named it ForkStork. Oh, that's nice. ForkStork. I like that. Thank you. Thank you. There was one, I don't know if you remember in San Francisco, there was one called Spoon Rocket. I love that name. It was such an awesome name because at lunchtime, that's what I always ordered when I lived in the city and it was just, it was just fun. Like people want to have that emotional connection with a name and it's fun to say Spoon Rocket. Yeah. I wonder, so like when I'm thinking through names and I'm thinking of like in your book, Eat My Words or your website. Oh wait, my book, this is my book though. My book is called Hello, My Name Is Awesome. So when I was reading your book, Hello, My Name Is Awesome and I was on your website for your agency Eat My Words, I noticed for example, you kind of give this quality score of multiple factors, right? And so if somebody listens to this podcast and they realize it doesn't have a great quality score according to your foundational principles of naming your brand and your business, how often do you look at it and go, let's rebrand this whole thing? Is that common? Let's say if somebody has a new business, it seems like it'd be easy to rebrand. Obviously, if you're like already eBay, you're probably not going to change the name and you probably wouldn't advise that, I assume. What's kind of the inflection point where you go, no, you're early enough in, not enough people know you, let's rebrand. It's never too late to change your name. We recently rebranded a bank that was more than a hundred years old and the bank was named first national bank of Syracuse, but they weren't in Syracuse, New York. They were in Syracuse, Kansas. And for anyone listening, that's an international Syracuse, New York, well known Syracuse, Kansas, not so much. Yeah, I didn't even know there was a Syracuse, Kansas. Who knew, right? And this is a tiny little town that's like an hour from the closest airport. And that airport is so small. And I know you've been to a million airports. It's so small. Can you top this though? It's so small that their food court was a vending machine that hadn't been used. It was out of everything. I don't think. There was nothing. It was like in the office that had apples in there that Dwight Schrute had hammered in. So what did you end up naming it? They're a Maverick bank. They're actually an award-winning regional bank with multiple branches. But their name wasn't distinctive. It didn't stand out. And they're in agriculture country and they help fund a lot of, they help finance and fund a lot of people's farms. And their tagline was making dreams come true. So we rebranded them dream first. And for a bank, dream first, it's super aspirational, right? That's maybe a sign it wasn't the best. You know what, they have a tagline and I'm so, I feel really bad not even remembering what their tagline is. But they sent me a backpack full of swag with dream first on everything on cups, mugs, backpacks, t-shirts, cosies, all kinds of coosies, those beer, the names on everything. But yeah, dream first. It almost is a need a tagline. What percentage of a brand's success do you think is attributable to a good or a bad name? So let's say I have a great idea. I launch an app or a product and the idea is like a nine out of a 10. Okay? It's just like anybody who uses the products and be blown away and become a repeat customer. But in that hypothetical, I create a name that's like a one. It's like Slug App or some, I don't know, vomit app, something that like turns people off. Do you think it really, do you think that company can survive that horrible name? Or have you seen instances where really good businesses, the ultimate, one of the ultimate reasons it failed was the name? It's really hard. Yeah, I'll give you an example and it's hard to know without. Yeah, you're never going to know exactly. Your hunch is my question. Yeah. We don't know. We don't never know though. It's like when people get divorced, you don't know the real story, right? So yeah, when the company, when the company implodes, so yeah, let me tell you, we used to give out this award called the- The Razzie, the head scratcher, okay. Head scratcher of the year award to names that suck. And yeah, one, it was an organic baby clothing company in San Francisco, of course. And the name was Species. Species. But it was spelled S-P-E-E-S-E-E-S. Oh my gosh. It was like a horrible, okay. First of all, Species, horrible name. It's like a horror movie. Like why would you name the baby? I feel like, wasn't there a horror movie, Rick, called Species? Can you Google it real quick? I swear there's a low budget hormone. So you have a baby toddler clothing line named Species. That's the least nurturing baby, like tender name in the history of mankind. Species, my baby. Yeah. Right. I know. It's like, here's your little alien, here's your alien baby, alien baby clothing. So yeah, Species, so it was, so on their website, they explained, you should never have to explain your name, but they said that it was spelled that way because that's how babies would spell Species if babies could spell. Oh my God. Except babies would never be talking about Species. It's kind of an advantage. That is, somebody was doing mushrooms and some, they were there on a bad LSD trip. There is a horror thing called Species. 1995. So let's say, okay, Rick, we have a baby brand. We're going to sell people by for their most beloved interact relationship in their life, their own children. Let's name it after a horror movie. Why don't you ask them if they want to rebrand to Friday the 13th clothing line for babies? Or what's that new Korean crazy horror movie that did super well? It was a weird, okay. Anyway, movies, names matter. I feel like good movies. I feel like Star Wars was a good movie name. I don't, I mean, it's like, you know, it's kind of like, well, maybe it's not a good name. What do you think? You're the expert. No, Star Wars is a great name. It's a great name and it's nice and short, but talking about names of movies or TV shows. So for the longest time, I would not watch the Marvelous Mrs. Maisel because it was just such a weird name and like Maisel. The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. God. And like Mrs. Maisel, like, I just, like, I don't want to watch some old lady named Mrs. Maisel, but then like this show is like fun and refreshing and like cool and, and Midge, Midge, her name's Midge Maisel. Like Midge should have been in the title. Midge is way more fun than Maisel. Rick, my, my engineer is saying you liked it. It's a great show. He says it's amazing. So there's an example where they lost, I wouldn't have watched anything the more. Yeah, that is true. When I go on Netflix, it's funny. You know, they say, don't judge a book by its cover, but you do. Words are images are processed 60,000 times faster than words. So a really good. Oh, really? Wait, I have to write that down. Cover. Yeah, 60,000. It's mind boggling stat. Yeah, it's not. I always ask people to guess. How fast do you think a video or a good image is processed? And people say, oh, 10 times faster. 60,000. A good research on it. You know, Mr. Beast is a guy that I've known. He's one of the top YouTubers, most followed people in the world. And he told me, you know, the thumbnail is everything like huge. And also the title of it. You know, is it really catchy? And I teach this formula. I have an advanced scaling program helping businesses scale, you know, from one past $50 million in revenue. And one of the things I teach this formula called the hum formula, H-U-M. And so you need these three components in any marketing for it to potentially go viral. And H stands for hypnotic opening. So it needs to be really fascinating, initial kind of phrase. And that'd be like the name of a movie or like you said, a book or a company. And then you have, you know, you, the U stands for unique philosophy. Your product needs to have something that stands out. And then the M stands for magical, magically make it easy. So the product, good products magically make things easy. That's why supplements sell well. It's like the hypnotic is the hypnotic opening for a good ad is like, did you know that scientists estimate that men's testosterone is dropped by 63% in the last 100 years. And so that's your hypnotic opening. A lot of men will be like, ah, my testosterone is dropping. And then the unique philosophy, let's say for that business could be something like, and we think the reason is EMFs from your phone or something are disrupting your hormonal balance. And then the make it easy magic is we have a little tag you put on the back of your phone and it blocks 80% of the EMF. So that a good businesses have this kind of hum formula. By the way, for those of you listening on Tai Lopez.com slash eat my words for the show notes, I'll put a link to this scaling system and some of this hum thing, but so the name to me falls into that pillar of a good business that can scale. It needs to be kind of a hypnotically fascinating opening line. And so when you rebranded, you know, this bank or you rebranded, you were talking about this PR woman from just her own name. And you kind of have this hypnotic, what was it, fire talker or something? Yeah, that's kind of that hypnotic, like I have to pay attention. It's kind of disruptive and really bad names. Would we just say the marvelous Mrs. Maisie or something? Yeah, there's actually names out of the opposite of hypnosis. Hypnosis makes you stop. You know, the opposite of that is like, I want to scroll faster. I see that a lot. Why do you think Hollywood spends $100 million on making a movie and doesn't name it well? Like what's going on? I don't know about, I don't know about movies, but I'll tell you, I know, I know this about brands that people are so desperate to find an available domain name that will sacrifice that. I always say I'd like to buy a vowel, please. Or they think they're being creative by eliminating some letters or spelling things with a number in the middle. I see that all the time. Here's a bad name, X-O-B-N-I, so. X-O, here's a bad name, Rick, X-O-B, what is it? N-I, X-O-B, Zobny, is that what it's pronounced? Yeah, it was originally pronounced Zobny, but Bill Gates pronounced it Zobny, so they changed the pronunciation of it. What the hell were they selling? What is Zobny? Zobny is inbox spelled backwards. Like, how would you know? Oh, inbox spelled, yes. See, that's where people, they thought they were being clever, but just because it's creative, just because it's creative doesn't mean it's a good idea for business, right? I think, yeah, I agree. And one of the things I liked in your book that I think is a super good warning to you out there is don't base the name on the fact that you can buy the .com domain because you can always add a word, lots of things. I think even Zoom started out with Zoom.us, they couldn't buy the .com, or there's good things that you add the word like get, like if you have an app and you want to name it, I don't know, crumbles or something like that for a cupcake app or something. If crumbles.com is taken, you could just name it getcrumbles.com or download crumbles or something like that. Is that kind of, am I summarizing what I read? That's excellent advice. The Facebook started out as the Facebook, they weren't facebook.com until 2005. Tesla for the first 13 years they were in business was, the domain was teslamotors.com. And that's an example I like to talk about because, look, it didn't stop, you know, it wasn't a roadblock to Elon Musk, he just kept going. And you can always, if you're obsessed with getting the exact match domain name, you can get that later, after you've made your millions. But don't let the lack of an available domain name stop you from having a great name. Basecamp was Basecamp HQ, Dropbox was Get Dropbox. Both of those companies had millions of users before they had their name, um, square, square up. So a slide share, slide share.net, keep going, don't get out of modifier word or you can be really creative. One of my favorites is, there's a smoked turkey company. I saw this, I was at the dentist in the waiting room and I was flipping through O Magazine, Oprah's Magazine, the Christmas issue, where she has her famous O list. And I saw this smoked turkey company. I wasn't going to send anyone a turkey because that's like just such a weird thing to send, but I guess people do. And the domain name, so it's called Greenberg Smoked Turkey. It's not a great company name. Greenberg could be misspelled, but their domain name was unforgettable and it's gobblegobble.com. Gobble, gobble, that good name for a smoked turkey company, Rick, would you remember gobble, how I feel like memorable is like one of the core things because you can't get virality if people can't remember. You need that word of mouth. So you need a name. I mean, like I'm in Sweden right now and I'm going to a restaurant that I've gone, it's called East. Now it might not be the best name and it's kind of like this vibe of like Eastern, you know, Middle Eastern food, but at least I remember the damn name. You know, there's some names to restaurants. It's like there's, I was just in Denmark where you have some of the, you know, the most Michelin star restaurants in the world and some of the names I'm going, my God, they're amazing restaurants, but it's going to be tough for somebody because they make a lot of money on tourists. When you go to these Michelin star in Copenhagen, there's a lot of, I hear a lot of American accents and stuff. Nobody's going to be able to go tell their friend about it because you're like, I don't even know what to say. You know, so is that, am I right on that? That like, get a name that people can say. That probably goes to your pronunciation thing. Yeah, just making it memorable. So for something, there was a restaurant in San Francisco, a really nice restaurant called SPQR. SPQR, yeah. But no one could ever remember. Like that, for something to be memorable, in its stance, SPQR, it has the curse of knowledge where it's it was meaningful to the restaurant owners, but not to anybody else. And SPQR is Latin and it stands for the Senate and the Roman people. But like, but that doesn't even correlate with SPQR. It's like, wait, where does the Q come from? Not the Senate and the Roman people. You have to have a PhD in history to remember what SPQR. Exactly. So that's a hard one for people. There's in, you know, when you're talking, when you just said, you're not going to tell your friends about it. There's a chocolatier in the Bay Area called, it's spelled T-H-C-O. Like how do you? How do you pronounce T-H-C-O, Rick? It's a co. Yeah, that's, that is a, it's a co. To co. Yeah, it's co. It's co. Like the T is silent. Yeah, co. It's co. Is that like a Cambodian pronunciation or something? So if you were, if you said, hey, after, I know you're in, are you in Sweden right now? Yeah, I'm in Sweden right now. Yeah, you're in Stockholm. Okay. So if you said, oh, hey, next, I'm going to San Francisco. And if I, and I knew you like chocolate, and I said, oh, you've got to go to Cho, go to the factory. You would not know it was spelled T-C-H-O, right? And, and I was walking by there one time and with a friend and he's like, oh, my girlfriend loves that T-C-H-O chocolate because it's all, it's written in capital letters. And that's what I call capital punishment. Because it's when there's all capital letters. Yeah, it looks like it's pronounced like A-T-N-T, right? It looks like it's, that's how you pronounce it, T-C-H-O. And so, yeah, that's a name that, and I know the founder regrets it. And, you know, the overcome that name, but think of all the business have lost the people that, right? And you want your name, like, you know, go back to, we want our name to be known by one name, not to Cho, not Cho and not T-C-H-O. Those are all the same brand, but you wouldn't know that. So, you know, you're, you're, you're deluding the value of your brand when it's pronounced different ways. It's, you're, it's like you're fragmenting it. Yeah, I know, like when the, you know, in your book, you talk about the curse of knowledge where like the owner knows what it means, like species, baby clothing, but nobody else knows what it is. What about, so I, I built a brand called 67 Steps. It became, it's become almost the most sold online personal development course in history. One of the most, right? And it went viral back in 2015, 16, 17. What do you think of that name? 67 Steps. It's very, like, I get people off the street like 67 Steps. It was easy for them to remember. I explained it in the advertisement, basically what you're getting is 67 lessons that millionaire mentors taught me. Do you, would you consider that a decent name? Would you, yeah. Yeah. Now that's a good, it's a good name. It's intriguing. 67 is not a number you hear very often. You know, seven steps would be common, but 67 steps, yeah, it arouses curiosity and that's always a good thing. It was built around a story that I explained, which was scientists found it takes about the average person to take 67 days to change their habits. So it was like, give me 67 days. Each day you get a video released what my mentors taught me. Let's reprogram your brain for success. And I need 67 days. They're used to think that you could change habits in about 28 days, but the newest science and I just came up with that name reading this new science, which came out in like 2013 university, a university in London came up with this. So it kind of had a story. I did have to explain it. So that's why I was wondering, is it horrible if you have to explain it a little bit? It wasn't a confusing. It wasn't like a story like, well, my great uncle one time was, you know, bed on the number 67. It was kind of like a congruent scientific story. Well, you had the real estate to explain the name, right? Cause you were doing YouTube ads, right? Online stuff. So it's not like someone was walking by your product in a grocery store and they saw the name on the label and they had a split second to make a decision. You had time to explain the name and you know, what the 67 steps were and all that. You had a lot of, it's like on a package label. There's very little real estate on it, like a, you know, a cereal box has a lot, right? But like, if it's a package of yogurt, you know, Faye, F-A-G-E, also like constantly mispronounced. F-A-G, that's a yoga, F-A-G-E. F-A-G-E. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that has to, Faggy is not a good, you remember on the office, Michael Scott gets in trouble for when he finds out that Oscar is gay and then he's like, I call everybody Faggy. You don't remember that one? Anyway, so if you've seen the office, you'll know, but F-A-G-E for a yogurt, literally to me, either is Fage or Faggy. Faggy. Yeah. So that's, that would be a thumbs down. Am I? Am I? Yeah. Let's do a quick rapid fire here. If you don't mind, then I want to go deeper into the book and so let me just rapid fire some names that I thought of. And you just give me the quick rapid fire. Give me the approver veto. We're going to call you the president of the president of the United Names. Okay. So you're the president. So you get approver veto. Reebok. If you know what a Reebok is, it's a small animal in Africa that's like a little deer. Okay. So we got to approve for Reebok. Google. Not in the beginning, but it grew on people and that's another one. It doesn't matter what they call themselves. Right. They were so good. But yeah. Okay. Okay. So and I'm specifically saying on day one, if I came to you with these names and they weren't well known, would you rebrand it? So Google is a thumbs down on day one, I'm assuming. Yeah. I would not have said the name Google. No. It made people cringe when they first heard it. No, you don't have to justify. I believe in the human intuition. You're an expert. I believe in the 30,000 hour rule. You have like 30,000 hours studying names. So your gut feeling is probably pretty accurate. Okay. Gut feeling of? Yes. Works. Rebranding Los Angeles as LA. La La Land. Yeah. Okay. So that's a thumb up. Yeah. La La Land. How about a city? I was just in Sao Paulo, Brazil. If that was a brand, I've never seen a city so big as Sao Paulo. It's a mind blowing. But obviously, it doesn't matter. It's not a brand. But is that a name? Somebody have to be careful because nobody pronounces it right. Yeah. No one pronounces it right. Like Rio is a great name and I've been there, right? So it's in short. I mean, it's obviously Rio de Janeiro, but people shorten it to Rio. Oh, so Rio, and it's funny. The brand Rio is almost sometimes voted the number one recognizable global city. If you say Rio, everybody's like, ah, Rio. They even made the movie. Isn't there a movie Rick Rio? Is it in Brazil or something? It's a cartoon, isn't it? Okay, let's keep going. I think people are going to really like this. And by the way, on tidelopers.com slash eat my words. If you want to work with Alexandra, she's got various packages. And so I'm going to have there on the show notes and application and all that stuff. So you can hire her. You can do the book and website and all that. Yeah, there's Rio. Okay, continue. Since everybody likes Elon Musk, SpaceX, his space business. SpaceX is a cool name. That's a cool name. Okay, so that's a thumb up SpaceX. Okay. I think this is a cool name. He built this company where he digs holes under LA to you drive in tunnels. Do you like the boring company? Yes, I love the boring company. I think that's really fun. He Elon Musk is good at names. He's good at names. What do you think of Twitter, though? I like the name Twitter. They're one of my clients. Yeah, I worked on naming their disappearing tweets. Fleets. Fleets. Okay. Oh, you came up with that. I thought that was good. Okay, I'm going through Rick. Feed me some just names. We're doing the thumb up. We're going to do 10 more real fast. Okay, I've got this water bottle here. It's a Norwegian company, Imzdal. I already know. I've learned enough from you. This is a thumb down. But what about Voss, V-O-S-S water? No, I mean, no, I mean, look, their bottles are gorgeous. So you like the physical branding. They have that glass bottles. Yeah, their bottles are beautiful. I mean, I guess Voss, it's kind of a sexy, sounding name. Yes. So yeah, it works. It works for them. Fiji water. The watering Fiji is beautiful. If you've been, you know that. But I think the, yeah, people find it the mystique of it. Like, yeah, like Icelandic water and. Yeah, Icelandic. I love Icelandic. Okay, I've got one. Do you like Icelandic? Yeah, because it's like. Icelandic. I like better than because Fiji, Fiji is very tropical and it's not refreshing. Fiji is not a refreshing place to visit, but Icelandic. That sounds cool and refreshing. Yes, I love that name. Yeah, cold mountain water. Okay, I got one for you. Name me an expert, Alexandra Watkitz. Give me a thumbs up or thumbs down on only fans. If on day one, if you were hired, would you have used only fans? No, no, I hate that name. You hate the name only fans. Break it down. Well, it's just like, it's like, like, okay, well, and I was thinking about it the other day, like, why, and it's really like, it's just, those two words don't belong together. Only fans. Like, no one ever says that in a sentence. It's so, that's a name that I would call forced, right? Yes. So they, in your opinion, they succeeded in spite of having a name dragging them down, which happens. Yes. Yes, they did. Okay, a few more because I like this rapid fire. So Amazon. Love the name Amazon. You love the name Amazon. It's like every, yes. Yes, Jeff Bezos is a great name. Because Amazon is a really wide umbrella and it doesn't matter what they introduce. I mean, look at all the different products and services they have. Yes. Amazon still works. And when Jeff Bezos named the company, first of all, original name that he came up with was. That cadaver is not good. Cadaver, like abracadabra. Like a dead body, you mean cadaver. Yeah. No, but it was too close to the Spanish word for cadaver. Cadaver. But Amazon, I love because it's, he wanted something and I've been on the Amazon. So maybe that's why I have more of a affinity towards it. But, yeah, it's big and wide and vast and anything falls can work with Amazon. So what about, okay, let's, so Amazon's a good solid name. You mentioned in your book, okay. Hello, my name is awesome. You mentioned, you don't like, like the L Y and Bitly or what do you think a Shopify, because it's one of the most, you know, phenomenally fast growing startups in history. Shopify. I think Shopify and Spotify, I don't know which was first, but one copied the other. But whoever, I like, I think I like Spotify. Spotify and Shopify are super close. Spotify's right down the street. That's Swedish. Shopify's Canadian. Yeah. Oh, it's Spotify is? Oh, interesting. Yeah, I think one or two of the ify's are okay, but then everybody started copying them, right? It's like Twitter, then there was like Yammer. Yammer. That's a weird one. Yammer. Yeah. And there's one other, there's one that's like, you can always tell the copycats are, right? So there was QuickBooks, right? We all know QuickBooks. And then FreshBooks, like it's a copycat. Nobody likes the copycat. Why be somebody else when you can be yourself? What about Whole Foods though? Whole Foods is good. Whole Foods is good. That seems like a solid name. It's like non-processed, healthier. It kind of conveys, it doesn't have the curse of knowledge. Like you said, if I don't know what it is and you're like, let's go shop at this place. It's got better food called Whole Foods. It's like reinforced. I don't have to have known the founder's story because I feel like that's where, yeah. Right. But like in Seattle, there's a store called, it's a high-end premium grocery store and it's called Thriftway. And at one time it probably was the place to get discounted groceries, but they've like really outgrown their name. Like their lot, that's what I would call restrictive. So they should have changed their name a long time ago. That's one of your principles in your book and on your website, which is don't have a restrictive name so that when you expand all of a sudden your name, because Thriftway to me is the opposite of a high-end place. There used to be thrifties. You know, it's like, that's like a low blood and you don't want to be buying your steak. Remember yesterday you had a steak, Rick, Rick had a steak at a restaurant here in Sweden and it said minute steak. And in America, minute steak is like the worst cut of beef. Here it's not. And so let me bring up, I think if you're going to go global, don't restrict yourself. There was a dating site, I remember, it was an Australian company. It was for seniors, older people dating and they called it ripe dating. In America, when someone you say they're ripe, it means they smell bad. Like in North Carolina, you're like, oh, so to an American, it's a restrictive name because nobody thinks of ripe date. I mean, that's a horrible name, I think, in any country. No offense to those people. It's horrible and it's one letter off from rape and I don't like. Yeah. Yeah, okay. I didn't think of that, but that's even worse. Yeah, you don't want Tinder. What do you think? Last one, thumbs up or thumb down on Tinder? Yeah, Tinder's kind of fun. It's like fiery. Tinder's fun. Bumble, Timble. Okay, so which one do you like on day one? Assume we didn't know these. Which is the better dating site name in your opinion? Match.com, the original one. Tinder, hinge or bumble. Which one do you like? Match.com. Yeah, Match.com is good. That's what built the empire. I don't think you know this, but I owe my naming career to a Match.com date. You know, that's now Tinder. I was on a Match.com date and that's how I, it wasn't, it was somebody that my date knew that got me into, yeah, I lied my way into naming the naming business. Yeah, I was on a Match.com date with this guy and we were going to a party and I asked who was going to be there and one of his friends worked at Landor as like the head of naming and I have been trying to get my foot in the door forever. And so when I, he wouldn't introduce me to his friend at the party because he was kind of cringy and that like, I'm like, oh my God, I have to meet your friend. So I had to eavesdrop on every conversation. Yeah, well, I finally met the guy, his name's Anthony Shore and he's become a friend and colleague, but he was jealous. What was the name of the company, the naming company you want to work at Land? I feel like that's a bad name. Well, Walter Landor is a brandy and pioneer. Yeah, the company used to be on the Oh, okay. It's a name guy. Well, a lot of firms are named after the founder and it doesn't, a lot of law firms, right? We need. Oh yeah, law firms love that. Yeah, we name a lot of law firms because they realize that their own name doesn't, it's not serving the clients. You know, what is it saying to the clients? But dating sites, can I just tell you, so the cringy, the cringiest one to me is eHarmony. Okay. eHarmony, I, I could not ever go on there because I never wanted to say that, oh yeah, we met on eHarmony, that name just makes me cringe. So I worked for eHarmony naming, I don't know if you remember their website that was a match.com competitor and it was called jazzed. Do you remember jazzed? Okay, I didn't, no, I didn't hear that. I remember a match had a chemistry was the one they had. Yeah, chemistry. But eHarmony came out with jazzed, which was, jazzed. Was that like a, was for gay people like jazz hands? No. No. You know, Rick, what do you think when you think of jazzed for dating? No, but eHarmony, do you remember eHarmony? I actually, Rick never laughed at my jokes. He laughed at that one. I wasn't even joking. He's still laughing. Okay. No, jazzed, like you're jazzed when you meet someone that you like. But no, eHarmony had a gay dating website. They probably still do because remember they got, yeah, what do you name a gay dating site? You got to be careful with that one. Oh, Grindr. I know the founder Joel. He used to come to my talks. Joel, uh, he's a guy out of West, West Hollywood. Yeah, Grindr. Now that, let's talk about Grindr. You're a naming expert. Somebody comes to you. I have a gay hookup app. I want to name it Grindr. Now, Dave, would you give it a thumbs up? I like Grindr, but yeah, but I'd like to buy a Val please because it's missing the e. It's missing the e, but I've named a couple dating websites. One of my favorites was, uh, Cherry Pick. Cherry Pick. And now way to say, look, what was this? Well, it was a Facebook app. It was, well, actually they sold to Facebook, but it was an app where they use Facebook and you're looking at your, your single, your friends, friends on Facebook that are single. We're cherry picking. And then another one, this name never saw the light of day, but okay, Fox Hunt. I like that one. I love this name for dating website, Fox Hunt. Oh yeah. Sorry to interrupt you, but Rick just reminded me. So years ago, I was speaking at the dating conference, uh, that was in Miami and I was, we were driving together to speak the founder of Grindr. His name is Joel and, uh, my good friend, Herman, who's from Argentina and he just, he's a very smart guy as a PhD, but he doesn't always understand perfectly English, what people said. So Joel gets in, we were, I forget what it was. We were going from the airport and Joel, I introduced him. This guy has Grindr. Herman's like, Oh great. And he's like, what kind of happening? He's like, well, this is an app. You just put in your location and you can see people like 10 feet away from you, you know, and you can like meet up with him. And so my friend, Herman, who's straight, not gay, is like, Oh, I'm download. So he didn't tell us, but he downloaded it while we're in the car. We're driving. We're driving. He's like, dude, I think the settings are wrong on your company. And Joel Simcaes, his name, founder of Grindr is like, what do you mean? He's like, I'm only getting dudes and they're like 20 feet. I should, I really shouldn't have told Herman and let him just run with that. Just be like, Oh no, it'll switch over to women for a day. Just meet up with whoever. But anyway, so yeah, Grindr is good and that'll let you know what's good. Maybe what about a dating? Okay, what about a dating app called Torq? If it's like a hookup site? Yeah, it's a little masculine. I love the word Torq. I've definitely tried to name things. What? So what about let's switch subject for a second. What about like slogans, logo, because I feel like a good slogan can really enhance the name. Am I wrong on that? No, you're right. Well, a good slogan, like Nike, just do it. That's like a battle cry. Yeah, the battle cries are good. A good, like a good tagline, like one, one of my favorites is caught for cotton and it's the fabric of our lives. Like that's a beautiful tagline. So yeah, anytime you can make an emotional connection, we, we named this popcorn gourmet popcorn store pop psychology and their tagline was crazy for popcorn. That's a good one. So Rick, there she renamed a popcorn store. It was called popcorn psychology or pop psychology, pop psychology, crazy for popcorn. It's pretty good. I'm a big psychology guy. What about so a slogan, you know, let's say I have a lot of people following me who want to go down the route of building a brand on social media. Do you think like let's say somebody's starting out and I was talking to a guy today and I actually came up to him on the street to talk. I was like, oh, you're Tyler because I got Lasik so that I can be more anonymous when I want to take my glasses off. But he came up and we were talking to this interesting guy and he has a coffee brand and and he also serves. He's from San Diego. I'm like, man, you should do like a podcast where you're like sitting on a surf board, you know, and it's called and it's all about because surfers are basically it's the best anti-aging workout. You'll see 80-year-old ripped surfer dudes. It's crazy. It just works to the core. It does. It's not too intense. So I was like, and the dude's in good shape. I'm like, do you have a six pack? Do your social media brand podcast. Just float out on like mission based San Diego where there's no waves and do a podcast sitting next to like get a, you know, a pretty woman's surfer. You too. And you talk about health productivity and you tie in your coffee brand. And I was telling him like brand yourself, whatever, you know, coffee, drinking, surfer or something. I forget what I told him. Do you like that for social media brand where like your name on Instagram is, you know, I forget what the guy's name was, but Bob Smith and then below it in quotes, he puts like the surfing coffee podcast or something like that. Do you like that on a personal brand level, some type of slogan? Yeah. And I'm sort of laughing. I went to Mission Bay High and I live in San Diego. I live, I live right by the beach in Point Loma, OB, but I went to elementary school in San Diego. So it's my old stomping. Yeah. I went to, I went to Longfellow and then I went to, I went to junior like right before high school. I went middle school there. Oh, that's so funny. I did too. PB junior high. So I believe that having, so there's a speaking of surfers, there's a surfer guy, big social media guy. His name is Tyson Marr. He's Australian and he travels the world on a shoestring and his moniker is the naked traveler. Cause he's, you know, right? So yes. I do believe monikers are great and I've been talking to a lot of people lately about monikers. So like there's this guy named Bruce Birch and he is the father of cause marketing, which is a really long kind of moniker. So I rebranded him the cause father. I like that. The cause father. That's great. The cause father. So like, thank you. Yeah. And he, he is all over that. I don't see his card around here, but yeah, he, he has his card now. You know, he's kind of looks like, you know, his, the Godfather, you know, with his, his tuxedo and, you know, his, his Italian mafia suit and, uh, he's, uh, that's his favorite movie. Like I had no idea when I said, you're the cause father. Sorry. I'm trying. I don't usually have his card right on my computer. But anyway, having a moniker can really help. Like there's, uh, attorney and her name is Lauren Vasquez and she's a cannabis attorney. And she calls herself the fired up lawyer. Okay. The fired up lawyer. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. You probably can't say anything crazier than that as a lawyer might lose your law license. So for me, like people, I've had all these different things and memes and stuff and like knowledge and here in my garage and, you know, one of my, I don't know if you call this a moniker, but I think when you look at social media influencers, you need this quick kind of slogan because people like to box you in. If people think of a Grant Cardone, they think of a real estate, you know, and they think of Gary V. They think of like, he has a phrase like hustle and you think of Tony Robbins is like, change your emotional state kind of thing. And so for me, I think when I'm talking to people and advising them, I'm saying, even before you're well known, come up with your moniker so that you can keep your branding consistent. And mine is kind of, you know, knowledge, I think is mine. Like I talk about mentors, but it's all under the subheading of knowledge. But the one that I like, I took from an old Warren Buffett book to first graders, which was the more you learn, the more you earn. I feel like I'm associated with talking about income business. And I feel, I don't know if it's not so much the rhyming, but it is. So I wanted to get your opinion moniker for me. Is it more like here in my garage, which is just more like that one commercial knowledge would be one, the more you learn, the more you earn. Or sometimes now I've been doing it so long, people kind of call me OG, like one of the OGs, like OG is like an original gangster. My dad was actually an OG. My dad went to prison in Terminal Island as an OG in that kind of drug dealing world. So, and also, you know, OG for me, since I'm famous for this garage with cars like original garage, but which of those strikes you as a better moniker? OG, you know, here in my garage, knowledge, the more you learn, the more you earn, like what, what, any of those, maybe or none of them. I think those are all things you're associated with. I like OG and I definitely know what OG, original gangster. I'm definitely familiar with that. But I think like here in my garage, those are, I feel like a moniker should be a personal nickname. So like mine could be the brand name badass. So because your name is Ty and you were talking about the more you learn, the more you learn is rhyme. So it's lyrical. People remember things that are lyrical. Ty rhymes with so many different words. So you could be, you know, Ty, the knowledge guy. I mean, that's really basic. But so you need a moniker would be like, what's your, what's your position? You know, what's your positioning? Are you the blank like, like Bruce Burch, the cause father, you know, the fired up attorney. So there's a woman named Amber Hurdle. She calls herself the velvet machete. So it's like the velvet. She's a, that's Amber Hurdle. You really want to rebrand yourself right now. That's why you said Amber Hurd. Amber Hurdle, Rick. Would you want that name right now? That's like there's a guy on Twitter whose name is Jeffrey Epstein. And, but in his branding, you know what his branding is? And he's well known. He's like a reporter or an author or something. So it's Jeffrey Epstein. And his monitor is not that Jeffrey, which is actually a smart little moniker and keep up from getting death threats or something. Yeah. Maybe it could be like, I'm also associated with books a lot. So it can, it could be like tie the book guy. I like knowledge. I, you know, as a meme, if I could have any memes, sometimes memes, people don't like having a meme. I'm like, a lot of people know knowledge. And I feel like knowledge is my philosophy, my philosophy, because other influencers have other philosophies, like, you know, like say Gary V, more goes down the angle of like you hustle to succeed. And, you know, and, but mine in Grant Cardone's is like 10 X, like really be super ambitious or you want to just 10 X, whatever you're doing. But mine is more not only money oriented. It's like knowledge. The more you know the higher quality of life you have, it's what separates us as homo sapiens. It's what makes our life so different. It what gives us the chance to live a life where we're untied from our instincts and just going to die and be forgotten. Knowledge is that thing that really differentiates humans from any other species. So I don't know, maybe not tie the knowledge guy or what, what if it could have been, does it have to rhyme or could it be like tie the knowledge OG or the OG of knowledge or something like that? Well, OG, not everybody knows what OG is, correct? Like Andrew Tate did good. He did top dog or what is it? Top G, whatever, it's like the G kind of thing. That name has like he really made that. Not everybody knows it, but they know it now, you know, like top G became like its own moniker. What do you think about, so I have a fitness app slash company and it's called 150 body and it's based around 150 day challenge, but more importantly, it's based around there's a lot of science around the number 150. Like you should have 150 minutes of deep sleep and REM every night. Your body proportions, a woman's hips should be 150% bigger than her waist than a man's chest should be ideally 150% bigger than your waist. You should get 150 minutes of vitamin D sun per week. So do you like a short name like that 150 body? I've had good results with numbers. My audience resonates kind of with numbers. I don't know if that's Yeah, no, I like 150 body. I love hearing all that. I didn't know any of that and that's really interesting. So yeah, as long as the number selected with, you know, there's a lot of meaning behind it. Yes. Yeah, because I feel like 67 steps had like science behind it. 150 body has a ton. It's a pretty mind boggling. You know, there's this thing called the golden ratio, which is like 1.61 and Fibonacci sequence. But actually the number 150 in my research, it has more associated with it. Like I said, that, you know, in terms of the body symmetry, how many reps and workout reps do you need in a good workout at the gym at the minimum? If you're a busy entrepreneur, it's like 150 reps is a good thing. Another thing is right now scientists think the peak longevity humans can attain right now is an age 150 and it's kind of an anti-aging protocol, right? So I just found so many good things and I feel like, is that, do you consider that like you talk about in your book, the curse of knowledge, is that you have to know too much? I feel like it could be memorable. Like in the app, you get the 150 ingredients you can eat for the diet. So there's a little app and you type in whatever you want to eat like bread, for example, and it'll give it like a color code. Eat often, rarely, never. And so it has 150 ingredients with 150 meal plans in there. I was just going to consistently build it. So you don't think that's too much curse of knowledge? No, I love all the different things. No, that's like amazing. I can't believe how many things you have for 150. And 150 body is a little lyrical because 50 and body have that same kind of body, 50. Yes, like doom to doom. So you look at the cadence of things because I was going to call like 150. 153 body would work. That was my other thing, like 150 fitness, 153 body, interesting. Yeah, but yeah. But 150 body, no, it's nice. It's round, easy to say. Yeah, but like 158 body wouldn't have the same resonance. Yes, exactly. And I have this, I launched this, one of the most common requests I've gotten in the last 10 years, because people see my life, you know, I have a fun life and they see dating and beautiful women and all this. And so people have asked me a lot, my theories on dating as an entrepreneur man, right? And for 10 years, I've avoided this subject because it's so controversial. And earlier this year, I'm like, fuck it, I'm going to give you my hypothesis. And I didn't want it to be too many. And I came up with the third, so I named the program the 13th thesis, the 13th thesis. Now, this M you might not like as much because it's a little bit, it could be mispronounced. I bought all the misspellings, which I recommend you do. But it's basically I have 13 hypotheses on what you need that you need to know as a man. And the most important is the 13th thesis. So do you think that is that just it's more of a niche product? This is not going to be a billion people, you know, that are interested. Is that too hard to pronounce? Is that 13th thesis? Thesis is an interesting word. You don't see it very often, but it definitely is loaded. That's why I like it. It's memorable. I was actually, yeah, no, it's super memorable. Yeah, no, it's loaded with like thesis. It's such a loaded word. Like when you think of it, think of how visually evocative that is when you hear it. Like you're just thinking of, it's, you're very smart, right? To have to write a thesis. Yes, this is like, this is knowledge. It's the core knowledge, right? No, it's, it's. And the slogan is like the actual science of long-term mating. And I use a weird word mating because I wanted to differentiate from dating because this is a more kind of advanced course. And I wanted to be, I specifically didn't want to use dating because dating connotes so many things from hookups and things. And I wanted to get my thesis on long-term mating, which is essentially who to have a kid with, because I think that's your most important decision. You can date the wrong person, but don't, don't have a kid with the wrong person. You're stuck with them for life. So I have another one. And it's, it's, by the way, I highly recommend it and that you all go and get this book. Hello, my name is awesome. By the way, I recommended it to a friend who's a top entrepreneur in Europe. And you instantly helped him, Alexandra, because, and he got his, he got butt hurt right away because he had a name that was like Lee. And I told him, oh, Alexandra, she's my naming mentor. And she said no Lees. So he went back, but I caught him early and I said, this might save your life. You know, you build a brand who's just going to name it some, it was, it was back to what you recommend against. It was like he found a domain with Lee. It had nothing to do with, it was like, you know, tably or something. And it was like a business productivity tool. And I'm like, come on, man. So he went back to the drawbar. So anybody listening, talopas.com slash eat my words, the show notes, the links to the quiz, the book. And also, if you want to retain Alexandra, she does some private, she has some higher package, you know, one-on-one type stuff in different packages. This is a name that I came up with. And we'll wrap up here soon. I don't want to keep you too long, but such an interesting subject. So I live with the Amish for two and a half years. And another thing people have seen on social media is I live like 70% of my life in the city, big cities, but I try to go to my farms that I own. And I have a farm in the middle of an Amish community that I lived with for two and a half years when I was younger, and they actually manage the farm when I'm gone. And so many people are like, Ty, how do I buy a piece of land, raise my own chickens? So I built a course called Amish homestead.com, the 11 laws of living off the land that I learned from living with the Amish. That's it's kind of a long slogan, but that's kind of the headline. I try to think what's the minimal amount of things I need to teach people. And that's where I came up with the number 11. I tried like smaller, it's too short. So do you think is Amish homestead.com? Because so many people now associate the Amish with like, oh, they live off the land and community. Is that a subpar name, you think? No, that's a great name. Amish, no, because think about, so you talked earlier about, wait, I wrote down the, okay, 60,000. So an image is processed 60,000 times faster than words, right? So if you think about Amish homestead, it's really visually evocative. And one of the things I talk about in evaluating a name is imagery. And when you hear Amish homestead, I mean, you know, you talk about a picture says 1000 words. So what does your name say? How many pictures does your name say? Like Amish homestead, we all can picture something and we all picture something a little different. But it's exciting, right? Because the people that want a homestead, they're like, Hey, Ty, how do I, how do I do this? How do I buy a piece of land? How do I raise chickens? How do I get somebody to manage my farm when I'm not there? That's like, all of that is just wrapped up in a nice neat little bow with Amish homestead. It's super. It's, it's just really, it arouses curiosity. No, it's, it's, it's really good. Yeah. Then like, I've done really well with numbers. That's why I'm like, Amish homestead doesn't have number. But I did one program in 2016, which just went crazy viral, which was, you know, social media marketing agency. But I shortened it SMMA. And I got so much attention. I'm assuming I don't want to put words in your mouth that that's not an optimal name. But now I actually own the trademark. So many people, the US government, they usually don't give trademarks as quick as they did, but they established that I pretty much had cornered the market. And now it's an actual, like adjective, like, or verb, you know, like verbs, like Google it or Xerox it or snap it. People actually say, Oh, SMMA and I own the trademark. So it's kind of something I can reinforce. Do you like defensible trademark names? Even if they're not optimal, like, what do you think of SMMA? Is that like a weird one? Yeah, it doesn't. Yeah. I mean, I don't, I don't, it doesn't resonate with me because I don't know what it stands for. Social media marketing agency. A social media market. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. No. And I get that. Okay. Now I see why people say it all the time. Yeah. SMMA. Yes. It was just an easier, but that one's not quite as good. But I made up for it by just having, it just kind of went viral. It got really good. Lots of people learned how to build a marketing agency. It's probably, I would go head to head with any course that actually took the percentage of people that went from rags to like making a hundred grand to a million dollars. So SMMA. So, yeah. So, so on day one, you probably wouldn't have recommended that, but sometimes somebody listening, if their brand is kind of taken off. So I guess my second part question is, do you recommend or when do you recommend trademarking your name to protect it? You gotta trademark, you have to trademark your name right away. Like, as soon as you start using your name, put the little TM after it, you're allowed to do that. And you can't use the circle R, which is registered trademark until it's actually registered. But the trademark office is really backed up right now. I mean, I know you get special treatment there. They're like, oh, it's Tai Lopez move him to the front of the line, but most people have to wait months and months and months. So I have a great trademark firm that I work with that I highly recommend. They have lots of free business documents. It's called Indie Law, I-N-D-I-E Law. But I'll put that on the show notes for anybody listening. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. They, and you can get a free brand name protection consultation with them. Super valuable. But I think you have to trademark your name. You have to be able to protect your brand. It's super important. I mean, I mean, look at who is it? Megan, Markle and Prince Harry. They were trying to get archetype, archetype trademarked and they got rejected because the company in Arizona is already using it. So even if you're, it doesn't matter who you are, like you, it matters who was using the name first. So don't, you know. What do you do? So what does somebody do if they're listening and their name is kind of, so like for example, clothing line tropicalfox.com for like bikinis and beachwear. Do you kind of like that? I mean, it's kind of decent. Love. I love it. I love it. I love the word Fox. I love the word Fox. But there's a brand name out of Australia called White Fox. I mean, it's definitely a different name. So you think Tropical Fox is okay. Could there actually a really smart marketing guy once ran something by me? I want to get your opinion. He said, try to tread on mental real estate that already exists. So don't copy. Don't copy. So maybe, you know, Shopify, Spotify. I don't know if you'd consider that, but, but you know, don't, you'll like this, this same mentor he said, look, Ty, here's a principle of psychology in marketing. You can tell all your friends, I become a nudist and your friends will think, oh, that's a little weird, but you know, ties my friend, I'll let him be a news. Or you can announce, I become a Buddhist and your friends will be like, oh, that's, that's a big change, but okay. But he said, you can't be a nudist, Buddhist. It's too weird. And so I think sometimes names, when they don't tread on any mental real estate that already exists, it's nudist, Buddhist versus maybe you're saying like Tropical Fox, you know, and White Fox is definitely different enough. It's not like you're like mimicking. In fact, but maybe that term Fox already is somewhat associated or something. I mean, I don't know how to say, but do you get what I'm saying that maybe good names are in the same vicinity? Yeah. So yes, in Tropical Fox and White Fox are definitely different enough because Tropical and White sound nothing alike. But when you're doing, you know, like I talked about FreshBooks versus QuickBooks, it's two, and they're both accounting software. Like you're like, no, that's too similar. So I would say be careful of that. But you can have a very distinctive name and not be a copycat at all. However, using like the existing, you know, what people are already are familiar with, that's definitely something to do. So for instance, the bike lot company, Kryptonite, we all know Kryptonite from Superman. And we know that Superman is repelled by Kryptonite. So we get the metaphor, oh, bike thieves are going to be repelled by Kryptonite. Like, that's a great name. It's one of my favorite names. That's a good one. Kryptonite Rick, do you like it for a bike lock company? You kind of get it. You're like, oh, it's Kryptonite. Any robber comes, they fall apart. Do you think, what do you, what do you think like a clothing line? I was talking to a friend like Baroque for like a upscale clothing line. Sure. Yeah, clothing, naming clothing is different than naming anything else. Because it can be called anything, right? Like, well, I was looking up, I'm working with, I'm naming, I'm naming some, some socks right now, really, really cool sock, their performance, their performance enhancing. So they're pat, they have a patent performance enhancing socks. And, oh my gosh, I forgot where I was going with, athletic clothing, right? So clothing, most clothing has no benefit to it. These socks do, they enhance your performance, they give you an edge. So I can focus on that. But most clothing doesn't have an edge or doesn't have a benefit to it, right? It's just a lot of clothing is named after, you know, like Versace, right, named after the designer. Yeah, Louis Vuitton, that's not going to say, that has to be an example of a name that is dangerous if you're starting out. Because people, when you see a Louis Vuitton, how do you originally pronounce it as an American? Rick is a true American. Louis Vuitton? That's how American, I know there's Americans out there saying Louis. One time I, when I first moved to North Carolina, I went to Taco Bell and my stepdad and I were standing in line and there was a guy in front of me and Taco Bell had just come to the south. And the guy said, I want a quesadilla and two tacos. And my stepdad turned around and he's like, we're not in California anymore. But Louis Vuitton or Vuitton, is that a dangerous name if you're starting out a high-end brand? So even though it's kind of a generic word, underwear, you like the word lounge? Yeah. Yeah, but lounge, lounge. Yeah, we're actually working on naming a hair salon right now and I'm exploring the word lounge. I'm looking for words that start with L and lounges are great. Yeah, lounge is like everybody wants to lounge. You probably don't Ty, because you're so active, but people like lounge sounds really good, like a lounge chair, lounging around. But one of your principles is don't restrict yourself. So calling it lounge underwear, isn't there, if they decide we want to branch out into bikinis and this, isn't there a little bit of a potential, you said, be careful of restricting or do you think it doesn't matter? I think lounge is going to work for anything. They're probably, no lounge underwear, because like the brand is loungeunderwear.com, maybe they'd shorten it at some point to just lounge.com or something. Yeah, maybe they would shorten it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. We worked on or I was working on naming a men's athleisure brand. That word athleisure just makes me cringe. Leisure is so cringy, right? Like leisure suits. Yeah, it's not a good word. It's like my cousin, she crowned cringes at the word moist. Yeah, moist. Yeah, moist. She doesn't like when so much moist. Why is she cringe? Anyway, go ahead. I know there's something about that word that makes people cringe. So don't open any brand for women called moist, Rick. Don't have moist app. Ladies, you want to download moist? I could, I could, I should build that app just to haunt and terrorize my cousin Maya. Anyway, sorry, I interrupted you. Oh, with the men's athleisure brand. So my client was really into MMA fighting. So to come up with a name, I researched top, I looked up top movie fight scenes and just googled it, you know, now you could use chat, GPT, top movie fight scenes, top movie chase scenes. And I just, you know, skimmed, I'm always looking for interesting words that pop out. And I saw stunt double and stunt double became the name. Isn't it good, right? Oh, that's a good one. That's nice. That's great. Stunt double, easy, not too many syllables. You're not going to mispronounce the word stunt, you know what I mean? And it's aspirational. So these guys laying around on general in their athleisure wear, like they might be sitting on the couch eating, you know, flaming Cheetos, but they're imagining being a stunt double, you know, it's, it's just one of those just kind of cool, cool name. Well, this has been fascinating and I highly recommend we didn't even have time. I'm going to bring you back on the show another time if you're open to it. And there's so many principles. Go to tylopez.com slash eat my words. And you will see all the show notes, lots of links, links to various things we talked about, links to her book, audio book, I like to get them on Spotify. I'm sorry, I'm not, not Spotify to get on audible speaking of names there. Audible seems like a decent name, not a bad name. That's a good name. Yeah, it's a solid Jeff Bezos. You're right. He is a good he bought audible and he's a good eye for it. It seems like people who make a lot of money are pretty damn good with names, you know, you got Bezos. You got, you know, even I think WhatsApp is slightly weird, but definitely has grown on the world with 1 billion daily active users or whatever it is. But anyway, so go to tylopez.com slash eat my words. I really recommend the book. That's why I brought you on. I don't just bring people on, you know, for no reason. And I think this is an under talked about subject that I'd like to help become more well known because there's nothing worse. It's kind of like when you name your baby, like people have a hard time naming baby because, you know, the woman says, Oh, let's name our son, you know, Mike. And then the dude's like, Mike was a bully who bullied me growing up. Like if you get the name wrong, you're traumatized every time you say it. So absolutely, absolutely. And that's what I tell everybody to think about when you're naming a brand, think about your own name and how many times you've had to spell it for people or help them pronounce it or you remember it. And like, why would you want to give your brand name any disadvantages? Yeah, I think people overestimate the value of a logo. I'd rather have an average logo with an amazing name than an amazing logo with a dumb name because the logo, like Apple's the best in the business, their logo on their websites, this big, you know, it's not even that, that important. So anyway, go take the quiz on her website, Tylopus.com slash eat my words. Alexandra, I appreciate your time. And I want to do this again. We'll do a part two. I'm going to get a lot of feedback and I'm going to collect the notes and all the things I forgot to ask you, my followers will definitely remind me. Thank you. And I just want to tell everyone in the show notes, the name evaluation test, it's called the smiling scratch test. And it's based on my smiling scratch. I like that. Yeah, yeah. It's based on my philosophy that a name should make you smile instead of scratch your head. So put your name in there. It will ask you 12 different questions about it and give you your results. Yeah, I took the quiz. It's great. So I'll have all those links. I appreciate it. And I will talk to you soon. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Thanks, Ty. Bye.