 Thank you. Can everybody hear me okay? All right, so to get started today. First up. I'm super excited to be here in Irvine So thank you all for having this great word camp and Steve. Thank you Well done So to kick things off. I want to play a little game with you So what I'd like to challenge you to do is first of all follow at hay ilk So an ilk is just a tribe a community or a family, right? So this is a gathering place for the notes that you take for the different Conference or the different lectures that you attend okay, so you can take some quick notes So I would like you to post Your top five insights or takeaways from what I present kind of the cliff notes So those who couldn't attend might be able to also see and glean some information out of gamification what you learn okay, so the game is the post with the top the best insights are the most likes Come to our booth over here the Ilkley booth, and I'll give you an Ilkley dollar And I'll explain the value why it's worth more than just a dollar The most retweets then gets three Ilkley dollars and gets to be a judge within the ilk within the the hay ilk community For judging things like for future word camps. We want to pay for people's tickets So we'll ask people to submit the reason why they shouldn't have to pay $40 and we'll cover their ticket But those of you who become a judge determine who actually gets to get the free tickets Okay, and then lastly the most likes and the most top five for all of the lectures you go to so if you get Little insights you really loved hearing about Gutenberg or you really loved hearing the blue host guys talk about something great post those and then you'll get your ticket reimbursed for this word camp and then you can become an admin for the community so I Want to gamify or apply some game metrics right now to you all okay, so this is just an example of how we can do that So why am I even here? What do I know about gaming Steve gave a little bit of information there? It's kind of my bio, but really my introduction to gaming and gamification Came from building video games I played video games forever, but I actually had the great privilege of helping launch the Xbox by Developing a launch title so the first game there you see on the left amped Freestyle snowboarding game was a launch title for the Xbox Then we helped launch Xbox live with amp 2 and Then Xbox 360 with amp 3 kind of fun little note there up in the top right corner You'll see a green Xbox with the icon. That's Bill Gates signature actually have an Xbox with Bill Gates signature on it So I spent five years designing video games running P&L for a few different franchise titles for the Xbox So I had a bunch of fun Building video games and traveling the world. Well, I traveled the world because we were documenting ski resorts to put them in The video games so I was fun in a whole different way, but learning about game mechanics Then after that a little while after that as Steve mentioned actually worked for a company in Arizona called mind space That did gamification consulting for big corporations and my good friend who worked with me at Microsoft Darren steel He co-authored this book. I'll eat this cricket Talking about the game mechanics that are involved in social culture What type of gaming mechanics were being used before video games ever existed and before Dungeons and Dragons ever existed, right? There are social cues that have been used for hundreds of years that we now leverage today in gaming So we're going to talk a little bit about those but to give context for all of you about what gamification is I want to share with you some of what we at mind space did for small and big companies all over the US predominantly to apply Gamification or game mechanics to non-game environments so to kick off really that's how we define or how gamification is defined today It's applying those game mechanics to a non-gaming environment to achieve extraordinary results Really, it's to trick people into doing things. We were all suckers We really are just admit it and we will do weird things for other weird things So gamification is the science and the art of human behavior modification Using these game mechanics and so for me I didn't get a degree or advanced degree in game mechanics But I having designed video games for five years learned a lot of different ways To manipulate or drive that human behavior by manipulating the user the audience and their reward system. All right, so By crazy results Anyone know how the country of Sweden reduced their speeding by 22% No, the tickets didn't get more expensive. Well in Sweden what they would do is before they implement a gamification They would charge you a percentage of your income for your speeding ticket So what they found is a bunch of rich dudes were driving around and had no problem spending $15,000 on the speeding ticket. Hey, I'm more important I'm gonna hurry forget everybody else was driving around you and be a jerk So they couldn't really change that behavior regardless of the tax they imposed But the real problem was the 80% of the population that were 5 to 10 percent over the speed limit all day every day How do they change most people's behavior? So they turned it into a game They put up these signs and they put up a camera and they took a picture every time you drove past So they had the license plate What was? considered the game Was that if you were under the speed limit by one kilometer per hour? You want a lottery ticket So every time you drove past this sensor Everyone will slow down and okay. I'm gonna yep. I just got another lottery ticket and at the end of every month or the end of every quarter They would take all those rich people who they were taxing tremendously put it into a pot and give it out So now everybody wanted to earn money by driving slower So they completely changed the social dynamic of driving by making it a game Imagine every day. Oh, where's the sensor? I got a slowdown knocks. I'm gonna get a ticket I get another lottery ticket, right? I'm not gonna get a $20 fine. Who cares? I could win $15,000 if I drive slower. So that's one example Another example Volkswagen has a whole movement throughout Europe of trying to Elicit a different behavior They noticed that a lot of us like to not take the stairs and take the escalator take the elevator Can we face it? We're getting pretty lazy. I mean honestly, we kind of are so they said how do we trick people into taking the stairs? Someone had the idea. Let's cover the stairs and piano keys and put sound to it So everyone can feel like they're Tom Hanks in that movie where he's dancing on the piano, right? And they had a 30% increase in people taking the stairs. This is want to see what it could do I don't know people can play sticks on it, right? But done done done done done done done done It's amazing to watch the video results of the weird things people will do just for a tiny little payoff Now question did this cost anything for Volkswagen to convince people other than the install cost? It's an intrinsic reward It was simply the ability to hear that music. That's all that's cool. Let me interact with my environment. That's it a simple little game So those are two classic examples of gamification So game metrics apply to non-game circumstances. Okay, so Tech crunch had been monitoring gamification when we were consulting for years and they said Engagement will dramatically increase if you implement gamification from five percent to seventy percent Dramatically improving the engagement by raise of hands. How many of you would like to have increased engagement on your clients websites? You do. Okay, that's a good thing as designers at your job UX is user experience They're not having a good experience if they're not engaged if they're bored and they're asleep. You're done You haven't done your job. Okay, so by employing some of these gamification tactics You can be able to improve the engagement and ultimately Provide a better service and a better a solution for your clients and I believe Build a better internet, right? We all need better solutions. So as I'm just gonna go through a couple of slides from what we would do as we engaged with clients here So some of you to give context have heard of the four piece of marketing or the five piece of marketing Depending on who you listen to which author you read. Okay price position product promotion place. Well, there's a sixth and That's pleasure So if people are having a good time in there engaged in a marketing activity Retention goes up engagement goes up and that call to action converts to action When people are having fun So when we at mind space went into corporations We would say you need to drive up your engagement and as you drive up your engagement We will get tremendous results and these are some of the companies that we got results for from coke to Viacom Boeing Mercer Microsoft MGM showtime bunch of different big clients and it was super fun going into really boring environments Like Boeing is probably the most boring example We had to trick engineers to sign up for their retirement plans How do you do that how do you get a bunch of engineers that are used to using slide rules to contribute to the 401k Well in a matter of nine months, we'd increase the amount of contributions by nine million dollars By simply providing little steps and little tools that I'm gonna share with you To improve their own life didn't nothing for Boeing Okay. All right, so In most gamification there's this notion of a continuum on the far left. You have games that are just straight-up game It's just a game. You just play a game and on the right something that is not a game at all So with Boeing we couldn't get these engineers to play Candy Crush, but they're not gonna play it They're not gonna engage with something like that So we didn't make a slide rule simulator or anything, right? But we had to find a way to address that audience in a way that was very opaque They had no idea that that was a game trick them into that so a couple examples from the very very obvious game Anyone remember Dexter old TV show guys a cop or whatever and kills people. It's crazy so We were tasked with the job of getting more social engagement in and around the show about a murderer And it was twisted, but it was kind of fun So we created literally a game on Facebook literally a game online that challenged people to understand or glean as much From the show as they could to then Drive their success through the game pay attention to the show and then win the game And then had different prizes and different things and we'll talk through some of the reward systems But that dramatically increase and not only engagement socially, but also viewership It was one of the biggest increases in viewership the showtime had had in the previous trailing three years So another opportunity time Warner came to us and said Hi, you know a lot of our employees are in New York and we suck at taking care of our health Can you please help us create a system to trick all of our employees to being healthier? So we came up with a system called plus minus where employees would make a few commitments two things I'm gonna stop doing so minus this from my life. I'm not going to drink dr. Pepper. Mmm. I Am going to take the stairs instead of the elevator So it was that was kind of on the merit system the employees had to determine what they wanted to do And then they would report in an app as a team now What made this fun is the accounting department at Newsweek could compete with the sales department They were always at odds anyway, so now they had some metrics. They could fight against but then we took it to a whole nother level and we took Organizations departments business units within time Warner and had them compete against each other So we have HBO competing against people or us magazine whatever so all the different properties as business units were competing and so now you have people who have internal rivalries where you've got a vice president or a CEO see guys What are you doing you didn't eat your carrots and you didn't take the stairs us weekly is killing us come on We've got a band together so it caused this internal competition fierce competition To be healthier. Why do you think Time Warner cared? Why are they saving money? Okay health went up Medical expenses went down right yeah, so exactly and also well-being increased happiness increased as people are healthier Their productivity goes up and their happiness goes up. All right, so another one was FedEx FedEx was launching a new service They wanted everyone to know that they could compete with the US Postal Service It's not just the $1,200 package that has to be there tomorrow We can also compete with US Post Office. How do we get people? How do we sucker people into learning about this new service? So we made it a little bit of a game. Hey, can you guess? Where you could send a package in two days for the same price the US post up just take a guess Here's 12 cities from where you are through geo fencing. Oh Congratulations you won here's $2 Do you want those $2? I just throw them away if you want the $2 give us your email address So there was a give and there was an ask So that way FedEx was able to not only drive awareness, but also collect email addresses and guess what they now knew The potential cities that you would like to ship to so they can do direct targeted marketing through drip campaigns Hey, you got two bucks. Do you want to use that on a two-day shipment to Tulsa because that's where you selected There must be something going on in Tulsa for you. Okay Last a very opaque is aria So this was just a web design that took the traditional Las Vegas website from hey cheap rooms To change the storyline. Here's an experience you can have with a breadcrumb process through the design to Reveal different components of your experience at the hotel to trick you into booking there Rather than just book Vegas book cheap come see our shows It was a different experience to align with the branding and the credibility basically of the aria property All right, so I talked about extraordinary results. Here's an example. We did some work with a small regional bank And they had two goals the first goal How do we reduce attrition? How do we stop that customer attrition? So it was currently 15% attrition. We they had about a two-year run with 15 will go from 13 to 17 but on average 15% attrition and by creating a little web game Mindspace was able to decrease that by six times Their second goal was to upsell someone comes in for a free checking account How do we get them into a money savings account? How do we get them into a CD and the conversion was 2% a bit horrible by making it a game and turning some of These game mechanics we're going to talk about into an experience They were then able to increase that as well by six times to get 14% upsell. This is just online This is not through someone selling and training the staff So just in an online experience by making a little bit more fun and having Discrete little experiences. They were able to drive people's behavior towards what they wanted. Okay? So there are two audiences that I want to talk about How many of you have clients raise your hand if you have clients that you work with? perfect How many keep your hands up if your clients are geniuses and need no coaching? But what are you serious? Okay, there's still humans your clients are still humans. They still need human behavior modification You need to get good information out of them and you need to get a check out of them, right? Otherwise you're volunteering So and there's nothing wrong with that so there are two audiences the first audience or your clients you can gamify and employ some of these Practices with the way you talk to your clients and then the second one is their audience right the intended audience so at mind space we would show two different components as we were Building out a proposal for them first was this discovery or extraction So we would come in right the first day and say let us learn a little bit more about you and your clients and Then the second phase we will gather a little more information, but we'll go back and we'll do some gamification behind the Curtains you can't peek in and come back and present something so what the first phase looked like is We wanted to define what success was if you had to pick one goal for your website. What is it? Just one Don't tell us the 12 things that you want to do because your cousin or your dad told her whoever Tell us the one thing you have to do Do you have to generate a hundred thousand dollars a month off this website or do you need to get 10,000 people to follow Your blog what is the one thing that you need the most so it's unambiguous success increase what to what? buy a Time frame by a certain budget, but what are those? Variables in the equation of determining your success Okay, and of course we threw up there a little homage to the old 80s video game. So winner is you right so the next one then is What is your second objective that if you don't get this objective game over? Anyone recognize that image here on the right all your base or belong to us was a horrible Translation of an Asian video game that was brought here ported to the US and Hilariously filled with terrible English anyway, so again first priority second priority get really crystal clear with your clients Not just a laundry list. I want to make it look awesome. Nope Awesome doesn't count Tell us what we can increase. I want to go from horrible to award-winning help us define what that success looks like Okay, so then the next thing we would say is now that we know what your goals are tell us about your audience Primary secondary tertiary. What about the audience that you're not making money from you're not targeting other stakeholders? Maybe it's the brands that you represent on your site and you're buying from them So understanding the audiences helps you make sure that you're building and designing for those audiences including the stakeholders. Oh No Just kidding. I'm on a Mac Just trying to make sure you're all awake All right Wow, thanks Eric. All right, so as you understand or as you ask questions about the audience Some of the things of those you didn't go to marketing school or whatever you want to know demographics Who can tell me what a demographic is? Sorry Age is an example. Good Demographics are facts about you. It is who you really are. What about psychographics? What the heck? What's a psychographic? Sorry Kind of it's who you think you are Right psychographics is what I'm really not almost a 50 year old. I think I'm a 32 year old that skateboards all the time Right, that's who I think I am. I'm an idiot. I hurt myself all the time I got a skate ramp in the garage and I wrecked myself. That's a psychographic. It's who I believe I am Okay, so as you understand your clients needs and their objectives You need to understand who their audience really are. Maybe it's age. Maybe it's income. Maybe it's geographic But then you also need to know what are their hopes? What are their aspirations? What are their cultural beliefs? Who do they think they are? It's very important to establish the framework of gamification to understand The relationship your client has with that audience. Okay, what are their habits? What are they focused on? Then comes the fun part the human behavior The changing crying kids to smiley kids. Okay, it's Gamification really is a blend of art and science. It can be difficult, but without that information It's nearly impossible. So if you can get those goals defined and if you can better understand the audience Then you can start to ask some really pointed questions for example What is the currency of that audience? So as you break down your primary audience the ones you have to get and without them you fail What is their currency? What do they want? Now there's we're gonna talk a little bit more about this in a minute, but I'll highlight here real quick There are four pillars to gamification Status and I flip these two because it sounds better access power and stuff saps We're all just a bunch of saps We can literally be Convinced to do something else if someone will give us status access power and stuff So we're gonna talk about those in detail in just a minute, but as you understand the currency of The demographic and psychographic makeup of your audience You can then determine what you have to give them in order to elicit the response you're looking for So it's very important to know what they're looking for. So when you ask a client Tell me about your audience. Okay, they're 25 to 28. This is their average household income They're in Minnesota. They buy lots of cheese and they they think they're a Green Bay Packers fan Okay, I know a little bit about them now. Let's talk a little bit more about what are they looking for? Are they looking for validation? Do they want to be the coolest guy on their block to that? What moves them what motivates them what you'll find in these four pillars the least effective is on the bottom? stuff Giving shirts at WordCamp is awesome But giving away stuff is the least powerful motivator Status oh, I've got pins that means I've been to more WordCamps and Greg. Where's Greg sitting in the back We're even sad okay status We do stupid things to prove that for some reason we might be a little more knowledgeable or a little bit more nerdy or whatever Okay, so we'll talk through those more in just a minute here There is however a very powerful Emotional response almost a visceral response to a shocking reward. So the only caveat to that Stuff being the least powerful is the McDonald's million-dollar monopoly the what what are they doing? That's crazy. So sometimes that shock value Sucks us into doing really stupid things Otherwise kid do you here Vegas wouldn't exist right Katie lives in Vegas? So lots of people are very all of us are motivated by that big potential win Okay, all right So an last thing you one of the last things you want to do is you're Evaluating a proposal and as you're talking with your clients is determine. What is the emotional response you want out of your? You viewers your your audience so do should they get a sense of accomplishment? Should they get a sense of imagination? It's just a fantastic website with cool things And it's just blows me away how cool it is is that the payoff you're looking for is it? Socialization am I interacting and engaging and getting to meet new people? Recreation is just fun help me waste a little bit of time with a flash game And this is a cool website now buy your socks whatever and then or is it subversion? This is an interesting one. I've got a good example in here. We're gonna talk about a Lot of us like to figure out how to get away with stuff. We shouldn't get away with don't we? Yeah, cuz we're all like Seven-year-olds mentally right and anything we can get away with okay. There's a loyalty program What if I did this and click did this and did that what am I right? And so we're all trying to get away with a little more than we should So as you build your websites, you can be thinking about How do we plant little things in here for people to find that give them either a little more status or a little more access Little more power case subversion is kind of a powerful tool especially within the development community All right So then the last thing on that the three steps is what vehicle will we use to communicate? The both the demand or the give as well as the reward Okay, what are we gonna give you for what you just did? So you have to talk about is it a video they unlock is it a new section of the site that they couldn't get access to? Is it the ability to talk to the president of the company and tell them that the socks you sell really suck right? What what tools? Can you deliver through which vehicles which mediums? All right, so then it gets really complicated I won't worry with a lot of it, but there are about 400 game standard game mechanics and What we would do as an agency was determine which of the 400 we would use based on the audience Their currency and the intended behavioral outcome Maybe we had three hours. I could try to go through it, but I don't even understand at all Okay, so just know that there are lots of things that you have experienced You don't have to have a PhD in game design that if you understand the four key pillars You can come up with things just by ideating with your client What they know about their customers and what you might have done from research? From the time you presented to the time you come back with a proposal. Here's a behavior you want This is something we could do. How do you think we can get them to give you their email address? Talk to me more about them. Okay so Last year gonna ask some important questions, right timing. There's reps that need to be done tomorrow. Yeah, right What is your budget? Please tell me you have a budget already? Right, and then lastly what are next steps? I'm gonna go away and do five things I need you since you didn't know anything about your psychographics in three days. You have to send me first second and third Audiences and who do they think they really are okay? All right, so then we would do a post and say all right great. Here's your proposal This is what the delivery is gonna look like so that's gamifying Your client the second audience and is really the audience So we're gonna talk about how do we convince or how do we apply? Behavioral modification to the actual users So let's go more in-depth on these four pillars status access power and stuff remember. We're all saps Okay, so status can anyone think of a good example either from the past or today of Some indication of your status as a human amongst other humans. I don't care if it's at work or socially or any examples of status Sorry Followers that's a great one. Yeah What kind of beer you're drinking? Whoa, is that top shelf? I got a nose about bourbon. What? Okay, what else? Anybody else Friends likes the car. Oh, that's a big one right status house We spend so much stupid money to prove to everybody else. We're cool. Don't we? Yeah, it's a human behavior So here's an interesting one. I don't know if all of you have it But in Utah when we get the power bill It says right on the top of the power bill You are using more electricity than 92% of your neighbors My wife is pissed right. She looks at that and she's like what? These eight women who live around here use less energy. That's it We're dry in the clothes and turn the air conditioner off for a week. It's out of control the status comparison Empowers us to do strange things so it's at the top of the pyramid It is a stronger behavioral metric and It is free It costs you nothing it may cost you a little bit to track Think of the old video games that this comes from when you finished spy hunter or dragon's lair You're at the 7-eleven. What did every game end with? What? The leaderboard and the high score whoo-hoo. I'm number 22 Some idiot tripled my score spent like 12 hours here yesterday. What so thank you So status is very powerful then descending in order is access What kind of access can you think of outside of web? What access are you given for certain behaviors? Maybe think about the WordPress community a little bit. Sorry VIP passes Wait a minute. This is an open-source community, right? Steve is just finishing up who's two years as lead organizer That's opportunity for someone else to step in You get access as contributors to the open-source community to develop the very software We all use to lead the word camps that we all love and enjoy you are given free reign So access can be a very powerful tool to elicit a response If you will do this, I will give you access to something. It's one of the metrics. We used at Time Warner when they did Medi-gating you get to read half the article, but you want to read the rest of the article about what Trump did or someone did who cares You got to pay five bucks or you have to be a member So you can give To a point and stop and then you unlock or you give access to okay? That's the second one can be a revenue generator The third one is power. It's a little weird one How do you give users power? over their experience Can anyone think of an opportunity you've been given in the last year or two where you had power to change The experience you were having Sorry Yelp Okay, it's given it's democratized the feedback loop so that everyone has power to destroy a restaurant, right? Okay. Yeah, good. I'm giving you power Right, I would like one of you to become a judge so that the next word Camp Orange County You'll tell us who you think should get a free ticket. Yeah. Oh, you can't hear. I'm sorry. So his example was Yelp So consumers have been given the power to destroy restaurants, right? They're given a voice and Then the other example was the the example I started with I Would like to find someone to be a judge to help us determine who gets a free ticket or which three or four people Get free tickets to the next word Camp Orange County Okay, so that's power giving people some power over their future. All right, so we're running out of time Oh, you know, I gotta finish real quickly last one is stuff. It's the obvious one. Okay You can give away t-shirts. You can give away socks. You can give stuff away Okay, people can win things people do all the time, you know all about lotteries and sweepstakes All right, so a couple of examples from WPMU Dev so on Their site they list a couple of pretty cool examples that use gamification in web design The first one is their own platform. They give hero points to members So if you go on the site and you're using their tools and more use their tools you get hero points You get reputation you get level ups There's this whole gamification that you can earn your way up Another cool example is a travel site. How much do you know about the literary facts of England, do you know anything about the UK and who wrote what book where? This is a way to get people to explore deeper into a site and potentially envision themselves in The United Kingdom somewhere on a grassy knoll enjoying some stout I don't know so it enables people to envision by asking what they know and tricking them into Experiencing or envisioning the experience of being there Anyone to seem Bobby Leonardo Leonardo? This is his resume. It's a resume website. It's a side scroller. It's so cool Go check it out. What did he want? He wanted employers to look at his resume so he tricked him into doing it by pretending they were playing Mario, okay? It's a pretty cool resume site. So again from WP MU dev So the last one this is one that I mentioned earlier talks about subversion anyone use the Papa John app and the loyalty points Have you ever gotten a free pizza you didn't deserve? What'd you do? No, but you deserved it Okay, here's something twisted Papa John's designed into their loyalty the ability to cheat Go Google it their kids all over talking to each other about okay If you take this coupon and this coupon and you overlap it and then you go in on the Wednesday You're gonna get two free pizzas. There's subversion built into their loyalty program that empowers people To figure out to be engaged in Buying more pizza So now Papa John's is the topic of conversation every weekend. Oh, we're gonna get a movie and okay Let's figure out how you put your points and it becomes a game. Okay, so people are Gamifying Their experience with Papa John's and they don't even know it Papa John's has tricked them into that So things you can plant in your experience things you can look at your user experience. Hey, let's maybe hide something over here There's another great site that hid cows all over the website And if you found all seven cows it meant that you saw 90% of the website and as an agency That's all they wanted is for you to see the entire website and then they would send you an email Congratulations, you found all the cows. You're really smart. We're gonna give you 10% off your next job, right? So they gave them some stuff. All right Last one is a pretty cool little funny thing Let me see my notes here. So they really like this is a WPMU dev as well They really like the simple quizzes of Buzzfeed That give us access to know more about us in the context of the web community around us and then What's interesting with all these examples that are on the the website is That none of them cost the companies anything. They're all intrinsic rewards. Okay, very important that gamification is not just giving away stuff There's so many other much more powerful tools to change human behavior, so Take questions here real quick But just a reminder if you've learned anything if you'd give me Five things that you learned just post those to At hey ilk for all of us to look at and wall we all kind of vote on who's I whose Insights were the best Eric's probably gonna win. He was paying attention really well, so Exactly, so you'll win some prizes. You'll win some access. You'll win some power Okay, so take some quick questions questions Awesome, that means you did it perfect. Oh Oh What did you do question was what did you do for the what did we do for the local bank? So this is Bank in Arizona and so we created a web game that introduced playful character Whose job was to help you understand a little bit more about banking and so we would then ask the consumer We've introduced this guy. Hi. I'm Steve now wasn't clippy right? We came from Microsoft and we paid for a clippy that hey I look like you're trying to write a letter stupid so this guy Steve would say hey banking's really confusing Let me help you. Can I get a little information from you? So then they would ask, you know, what's your average balance your checking account? We'd ask just two or three questions and say if you did this you could have made 300 more dollars last year. Oh Really? What's a CD? I had no idea So we did little asked for a little bits of information and then offered big payout Then a little bit of information then big payout that way consumers were informed and realized my bank sucks I had to go see what these guys are doing and then that drove the conversion that help Okay, was there another hand over here Up front The one that I'm aware of is Badgeville Okay, the question was are there any platforms available that offer plugins that just do this gamification for you The short answer is no not really because it really is custom for what your applications are But there is a company called Badgeville that provides I believe some plugins that enable you to at least introduce points for certain behaviors That then turn into level ups that then turn into power ups and then badges and leaderboards So there's some things you can do for community engagement That are offered through Badgeville But that's probably the biggest platform that we at mind space came across the most Someone just put their platform and set it right next to your website to provide that point leveling system So you didn't have to do all the math and spreadsheets any of the questions were running out of time Can I get a big round of applause for Brenner? Thank you?