 Hey everybody. Hello. So, sorry, I just ran in the door. So, apologies for that. But I'm glad to see everybody. I think we can wait a couple more minutes. Everybody doing. Yeah, I know we've got schools starting up soon-ish. I guess they've started but, you know, in person October 1 or something along the lines of that. So, I know that that impacts many of us. So, I'm looking forward to that. I'm so excited about the school year that has begun. I think we're still waiting for, let's see, Sid and Cedric. Matthew, you're wearing a tie. Does that mean you're back in person? I'm back in person. Yes. Yes. It's definitely different to see people all the time and to be wearing a mask all the time. So, I see all of my students but I have to try to remember who they are. I try to say something that I think is funny and they're not sure if I'm joking or not because I've got a mask on. So, I'm working through it, trying to get used to it at some point. But yeah, we keep our distance. Everyone stays six feet apart. My student tried to show me an outline earlier today and as she put it down in front of me, I stepped two feet back and said, no, no, no, you can leave it there and then you step away and I'll come look at it. So, yeah, we're trying to make things work but it's definitely different than it's ever been before. Yeah, it takes a while to get used to this new reality. I find that it's feeling terrible to be on site. It's really, really hard. Are you on site though, you? We've been back in the facility since July 1st and it feels terrible. Just like wearing a mask all the time and I don't know, it's just, it's hard, intense. Well, you know, I know for me I carry my germ key with me everywhere to open up doors and so on. I'm trying to keep myself healthy. Where'd you get that? I ordered it online. I don't want to admit to ordering from Amazon because I know that that's not always the right thing to do but basically just admit it to ordering from Amazon. Is that what it's called? It's called the germ key? It's called a germ key. CVS. Yeah, CVS. They have them in CVS on University Drive or at least they did a few weeks ago. I'm going to have to get one. Yeah, because it's like you go to the bathroom, you wash your hands and then, you know, you can use the towels to open the door but then you have to go into another door and then it's like, oh my God, I got to wash my hands again. Just like you're using so much water, we're in a drought. Yeah, I hope everybody and everybody's families and friends are doing okay, both with this COVID thing here and with other issues that we're dealing with. I know I have friends who out in California thought they would leave their home on a day that was like 170 degrees outside because if they got in their car, they would have air conditioning. And then they drove into San Francisco, they went to get ice cream, they got ice cream as a big family treat, then they realized that they didn't have visibility to see to get back home. And so they needed to sit in their car for another two hours until the winds shifted so that they'd be able to get home after going out for ice cream. So yeah, things were tricky out there. I was hoping that we could wait until everyone was here and I'm just going to check my email and see if I'm hearing from anybody else. But I think that we should probably start, even though I was hoping that we could do introductions to each other. This is the first time that we have our new contingent on with us. So I thought we could all introduce ourselves briefly and get started with that so that we could welcome our new members. I want to say hi to them. Hi Erica, hi Liz. And, and how thankful we are to have you join us. I'm going to introduce myself. Again, although I think I've introduced myself to everyone before. Matthew charity. I've been chair of the commission now for I think three years. And I, my day job is teaching law down at Western New England University. And, you know, right now I think we're, I'm just happy that kids are back in school and I'm excited for us to move forward and continue working with the town. And I would say who's next, because I can't. I know that we're all in different orders for each other. Do you want to just call someone's name and because you can see the screen and just do it that way I mean, we all have a different screen so we're not all talking at the same time. That's a good point that's a good point and can we just go back and go back to this as being recorded we just need to. So the things that you share about yourself are probably things that you should feel comfortable being out in the public. Hi, do you want to introduce yourself. Hey, I'm going to try and a cozy because he has my first name. So it's two words. What name and I use they them there's pronouns, and I have been on the commission for like a year now. And I have a nine year old who is supposed to go to cracker farm but is currently doing school in our living room and what else I live at the brook and I've been living in Amherst for like, almost 16 years now. And I was particularly interested in trying to see what getting involved in town government was like. Specifically around concerns around like just representation in town government for communities of color and low income families that I feel like are not typically represented. And so it's been an eye opening experience, I will say that. Yeah. I'm glad to meet you. Liz and Erica. Ben, do you want to go next. Next. Ben Harrington. Been in Amherst 13 years at this point. I know the two new members. So. Same person, you guys. Still Andre and Safi's dad stuff like that. But yeah, I'm looking forward to working with you guys this year I've been on for a year. It's been. Yeah, I open definitely. Thank you. Deb, what about you. Sorry, that took me a minute. Well, hi everybody. Welcome to Erica and Elizabeth. My name is Deb Neubauer. I've been on the commission for a year. I've been living. I've been living in this greater Amherst area for decades. I won't even say how long. But I have been then my family and I moved into Amherst. I think it was 2014. So, and this is my first experience volunteering in the town. I open. That's a nice, non specific way. Thing to say. So I'll stick with that. That's a good thing. Sometimes. Well, I won't. Yes, I'm just going to stick with that. Human rights commission is, it is, it is great to consider issues that impact the, the, you know, the, the feeling of safety and inclusion in our community. So welcome to new members. Great. Thank you. Petua. Hi, I'm Petua. The new members already know me. They probably taught me they taught me already. I'm a young person. I'm a senior in high school now. So yeah, that's mostly what I do. And yeah, the Human Rights Commission, I've been on it for about a year and it's also been eye opening. And yeah, I'm glad I'm here because like I wanted to know what government was about and I also am interested in what the Human Rights Commission does for the town. So, yeah. Thank you. And Liz, hey, good. Why don't you introduce yourself to us please. Okay, can you hear me. I always check. So my name is Elizabeth. Hey, good people call me Liz. I go by she her hers pronouns. I've been living in Amherst officially since 1980. I came up here to go to UMass from Cambridge, Massachusetts, where I grew up. I have two sons, and they both work at the schools one is a power at the high school once a pair at the middle school. I have four grandchildren. One will be in seventh grade at the middle school. One will be at is a sixth grade of a crocodile farm. And I have a two year old grandson and an almost one year old granddaughter. I work at Amherst Regional High School as a PE and health teacher. I'm also the activities director for the after school clubs and activities at the school. I'm in the prom and graduation rehearsal. And this is my last year there so I wanted to venture into something new. I've done a lot of work as petua and a lot of others know with people of color United with our young people. They are my focus in my joy. And I'd like to branch out to working with the town that I come to love and respect. Even when it hasn't always loved and respected me, I'll leave it at that. Fair enough, and thank you. Erica, can you introduce yourself as well please. Hi, few of you know me. My name is Erica. I'm a parent of the high school. I've lived in Amherst. She's very area since mid 80s on off between here in Ohio. So I went to college here with high school here raised my son who is now 20. Here, I volunteered with athletics in the community from suburban to high school sports work with the youth and a couple different other channels. And having a conversation this summer with Jen, you know, and others, it sounded like a cool opportunity to know that my kids grown the branch off and do something else. Well, thank you for coming and joining us. Jen, do you want to introduce yourself obviously we all know you but Hi, Liz. Hi, Erica. Welcome. I'm very excited to have you guys join us. Great. We also have Paul with us. He is going to join our discussion of the town safety committee. And Paul, you can say hi like to Paul. Yeah, so I'll just say hi but I will then exit until you're ready for me to not a member of the commission so I'll be, I'll be dimming my lights until you're ready for me. All right, and thank you all for being here. It's an important time. Thank you. All right. Getting back to the meeting for tonight. I don't know if I don't know if Cedric or Sid are going to make it so I think we should continue. Oh, Jennifer, did you have something. I just realized because my son is with him. They're doing he's he's at practice so hopefully it ends at seven so hopefully he'll be on right after They're running skills for football. Okay. Great. So, as part of moving forward I guess we need to see if there's anything to add to the agenda. I think, again, we're going to try to have this go until about eight o'clock so only an hour and a half. At this time, we're going to discuss moving forward with involvement in further conversations on the equality of black lives and on COVID pandemic. Again, we're going to talk to the town community safety committee as well. We also have minutes. So, what I have done is I took some really, really wonderful notes that that Deborah new bar had put together and truncated them. So that they only reflect what we what we had on the agenda, what we If we were reporting on something, then that report. And then any votes that we took, as well as the results of that voting without a full report of everything without a kind of moment by moment description although it's, it pains me to take something that actually shared so much information to make it smaller. One of the things that this helps us do is see exactly what it is we can vote on what it is we actually have have authority on what we are approving and what we cannot. What we are not approving and that type of thing. So it limits the discussion to the events that we're sponsoring and the the actions that we're taking. I don't know if anyone has had a chance to review the July 16 2020 minutes. If so, again, this is not to say that this is is a perfect result, but it's, it's something that is a much shorter version of what we would typically need to post to say what we're doing as the Human Rights Commission. Were there any questions about about that prior to us talking about whether to take a vote on approving this kind of more truncated version of what had been really great notes of the meeting. Is there a motion to approve then the the July 16 2020 minutes. Matthew, can I just ask a quick question. That conversation just felt like such an important conversation which is why it is so incredibly detailed. Is there a possibility to include both versions so that people who you know on the off chance that someone would want to really understand what we what we discussed. I think as far as posting the meeting minutes. We can, we can choose whether we feel comfortable posting notes of a meeting. I think that sometimes if we get something a little bit different or we make an we express something that we don't really intend to express as the commission or it's not a role to express it. We can cross more in longer notes. So I think we need to be thoughtful about that, but there's nothing wrong with us later, choosing to to share notes if that's something we choose to do. I was just going to say that that everybody can watch the meetings, because right now they're all been recorded. So if somebody wanted to like just be in the meeting they could go and watch that recording so I think for these ones that have been recorded, I don't think we have to worry so much because people can just actually experience meeting. I think it's a good point to why it's worth considering like continuing this past COVID, because I think having the recordings is a really helpful tool for people who can't always attend, you know, these meetings at various times it gives more access. So the people can see the meat of the conversation and not just, you know what usually ends up being very sparse minutes. Is there a motion to approve the minutes. Can I make the motion even though I wasn't at the meeting or do I have to have been at the meeting. I think that we at this point. We can just make the motion to approve because there's been such turnover since that that time that you know it in order for to be approved. It would just be me petwa. So it would be if the four of us but it would require all of us just being there at the same time. So if we want to start posting the minutes I think it makes sense for you to approve it to vote if you want to. Okay, I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. Is there a second. I'll second the motion. Thank you all in favor. Opposed. Abstaining. Okay. All right. So that's for approving three abstaining. Great. Thank you. So then moving back to the agenda. I'm not seeing that we have. Participants for public. I do see that there is one participant. We're in our public comment period. So if. If anyone in the public would like to. To bring anything to our attention at this time, that would be great. And if you're on a phone, you can raise your hand by pressing star nine. And I just want to tell the new commissioners when people speak in public comment, we don't, we can't respond back to them because not on our listed agenda. And as we have an open meeting. People can attend and they don't have to comment right now. But as noted at the bottom of the agenda. This is the time that we do set aside. And so if, if we don't hear during the public comment period, we're not able to kind of open it up for public comment again later. Okay. So I'm not seeing hands up. And I don't know if anyone has any individual reports to make. About anything that they've been involved in that they think the commission should be aware of. But if, if you have things that you've been involved in individually, that you'd like to share with the commission that you think. Implicates our role or, or something that you think was important that you were doing. As a commissioner, I think it would be great for us to hear. Yeah, kind of sort of do have like a, not a shameless, like the opposite. But, um, So yeah, I'm involved with the school equity task force. And kind of have an alignment here in terms of work. So I just wanted to kind of extend an open invitation to every one of the commissioners to try to get some folks involved. Like folks who are, I don't want to say right minded, but you know, There are human rights minded. We'll go there. Thanks very much, Ben. Ben, do you mean that you're looking for new members of that? Actively looking for new members. Yes. And what are the requirements of. Members. Yeah. You have to be able to talk and listen. No, there are really no requirements, but like having a connection to the schools is preferable. But. Like is the meeting once a month or. They're supposed to be once a month, but I mean, there's kind of been a lot going on lately. So they've been more. I'd say bi-weekly at this point. Thank anyone else. I just wanted to share that a second round of the rental assistance. Applications are going to be going out. And I think in like the next week or two. That's a COVID related rental assistance program. And I had the opportunity to meet with John Hornick and the organization who's. Helping them run that. And just to talk about how there were some accessibility issues with the first application. They didn't have. Like, you know, as many applicants as they expected. So I'm hopeful that. Some of the feedback will make the application. Just easier for people to fill out. But please spread the word that it's. Available. And. I think the information can be found through. The. What's his committee called? John Hornick's on the affordable housing trust. I think it. Is called. So that's something for people. To spread the word about. And then the other thing I just. Want us to keep on the radar is that. No, it's only the first week back to online or to online learning, but like for my nine year old, I took the day off of work yesterday. And there was no piece of the five and a half hours where I could have stepped away. Like, it was so intensively, like they needed. An adult support. And I'm just hearing a lot of concern from families around. How it's going to be at all possible. When attendance is being taken. And so many kids are. You know, half of Gallaudet's class was without adults. And just completely lost and unable to make transitions between the Google meetings and. They're like, it's a real concern. For families in our town. Right now. To figure out ways for parents to be able to work. And kids to be able to. Have some sort of something from school. And then the last one. Was a good news is that the school lunch has been extended. Until at least December. To bring to the complexes, but that's something that's kind of. Like tenuous. So. For. Us to be aware and people to be aware to continue to advocate. For. That to. Stay on course. Cause I know it has something to do with like USDA and it's complicated. So. We'll. Families need advocacy around that. This. Hi. The Hampshire County. District attorney's office. Is looking for people who are interested in becoming a part of their. Pilot restorative justice program. Where people will get together that to settle disputes. Before they have to go before a judge or so that they don't. Have to go before a judge. There's an application and a training. That you would have to do. And it would ask you. When are you available? If they, if you was needed. And it would be something like five to 12 hours. For the year. So if anybody's interested in that, they can contact Becky Michaels at the DA's office. Or they can email me and I can forward the information. All right. Is that opportunity a paid. Or is it volunteer work? It's a volunteer position. Okay. Right now. It's a pilot. So who knows what will happen later. So. And for the training, do you know if there are age restrictions or. Any other qualifications. The only qualification sheet. Well, you have to be an adult. And the other qualification is that you have to live in Hampshire County. Is. Is this going to be online virtual or remote or. In person. The training is virtual. And. I'm assuming that things will be. Online. I mean, yeah. Until. Things settle down as far as the pandemic. Thank you. So just a reminder that, obviously, if there are other things that you're hearing, I don't know if anyone has heard anything concerning about. The voting choices that. We've made as far as having a number of people going to the high school. I understand that. Our, our town clerk has done what, what. She felt could be done within the timeframe. She had. But please do encourage people to vote. Early. If they have the opportunity to do so. To make sure that we're keeping people as safe as we can during this period. There's. Yes. I forgot. Got one more thing on the topic of voting. I have been talking with. Mindy Don's office about, there's no. Application for. Mail in voting in Portuguese as of yet, because the state doesn't mandate that as one of the languages. So if anybody feels so led to. Send an email and support of them. Creating a Portuguese forum because we have a large number of Portuguese speakers in our community. That's great. So. In addition to. All of these other issues that are happening around us. I do want to get to the role of commissioners. I thought it was important for us to do that. Particularly as we have new people coming on. I also though, wouldn't mind holding off on that. If, if Cedric is going to be. On his way to having that conversation once he's here. So. At the risk of. Of losing things and trying not to. I'm wondering if we can talk a little bit about. Planning. As we move forward. It's my understanding that the town agreed. Not to hire. New police officers. That there were two positions that, that were considered. That were requested. And that the town council said. We need to have a better understanding. Of what the resources are that could be. Allocated in other ways. And. To that end. And to understand. How people feel about policing the town. That there is a going to be a town community safety committee. That is starting up. If we could talk a little bit about, about what that means. Paul, you could probably explain it. Best to us. So he has volunteered to come and present to us today, which is very kind. Paul, would you speak to us a bit about that? Sure. So I'm not sure if you've seen them. I should have sent that out to everybody in advance. So this. The town council has with asked and instructed to withhold. Filling two police officers positions until we do what just what Matthew said, look at alternative ways of providing services. That don't require police officer. And I think, you know, the number of people are very interested in looking at this. And the question was, how do we go about doing that? And, you know, typically, you know, town management would either assemble staff or have an advisory committee or something like that. But in this topic. We were trying to figure out how to engage a, a committee that had majority of BIPOC members and, and it really was while the charter, which is our town law says the town manager is the appointing authority. You know, how do we have sort of a. You know, how do we have a, a, a, arm's length way of appointing the people who are going to be doing that work. So the way to do that in my mind was to establish a. Second committee that would be the ones who would be looking at it. And so I, that is what I, I looked at with the council. And so this will be a committee that will interview. People who will be on this committee. And we talked about this at the town council meeting on Monday. They had some concerns, a number of concerns expressed where basically should these meet meetings be public or not public. In the sense that, and I have this setup as being a public meeting. So anybody can observe what this committee is doing. This is the second committee that's doing the actual work. The second. One of the questions. I'm sorry. I forgot to put it on my head. So it's public versus non-public. I just forgot what, what the other ones are. I didn't bring my paperwork down. So in sort of getting feedback, if you, if anybody has feedback on that, that report, I'd really appreciate that. So. Sorry. Just got distracted here. So. I can just say that, uh, that Jennifer did share the, uh, the report. So that was something that we received. Uh, in, in our mailings for, for this meeting. So, um, so we'd be, what we're trying to do is get this movie as quickly as possible. After Monday's meeting, I'll be doing a call out for people who are interested. I've already reached out to a number of people, um, several people who've been, and then other people is sending me additional names and reach out to these folks and people starting to weigh in. Um, you know, I'd like to get a broad number of people who are, who are, um, from the town, they have to be a resident of the town who are able to participate on both committees, um, to help review what, what the, how we're going to go about studying this thing. Um, there's a fair amount of work that's already been done on this issue, and I'm really happy to be able to do that. Um, and also to look at the, the terms of looking at how other cities have approached this. You know, there's the Cougars program and Eugene or, again, Denver has a program, Albuquerque has a program. Um, there are consulting firms out there who have done this with other communities. Um, but we really wanted to do it so that, um, not just rely on anecdotal stories but actually reach into the community through a community organizing tool to listen to what people's experiences are with the police department. So we understand when should they not be there and you know are we overpoliced or and what is the experience of the people who are at the receiving end the goal of this is to make sure people are feeling that they are in a safe community and they're being able to be fulfilled interference by the town government as well. So it's a thing along those lines. Erica. I actually have a question because I've listened on to a couple different things. Are we as a town and as a community also reaching out to UMass police department and Amherst college because I know a lot of our youth of color have had issues with UMass police department. So I'm wondering if there's any way that we could invite them to be a part of this in any way I guess. Yeah that's a really good question. I have not addressed that Erica but it's something I think this group might want to say they want to make that part of their mission. I mean I think the most important thing is for us to focus our own staff and the things that we control ourselves. I think that broader conversation with the university especially is important. I agree with that but I just want to put it out there that the university has, I've heard a lot of stories. Yeah you know I didn't even think about that. That's great that you made because I had heard stories but I never connected to that we should be addressing them. So thank you. Thank you. Liz. Oh sorry Petua. Sorry. Okay okay I have a just one question I guess for now and it kind of also pertains to like the youth or college student perspective in in this like process because like I've been I've done some research on like the school to prison pipeline and the ways that manifests in different ways and I was wondering if that is also being considered with this committee or like is there room for like say someone like me to be on a committee like that like this committee so yeah. So one of the things that as you were talking about the other thing popped in my head was I think Dr. Shabazz had suggested that instead of having one committee that has sort of two missions we might want to have two committees working side by side and that's something that's a really intriguing idea and I think one of those things you know the first committee is really about I have a I have a the the town council has instructed me to come back to them with a recommendation by January 31st and that's sort of a really tight deadline and I need to meet that in terms of what are we going to do on this this sort of narrow thing but I think the bigger questions that you're raising are something that I had anticipated the same committee staying together and then moving towards working through the rest of the 2021 but then at Monday's meeting Dr. Shabazz has sort of said why don't you think of two committees who can work in parallel and I thought that was pretty intriguing idea because there's probably going to be a lot of interest in both of these things so so it could be something but it really I think the very first focus and I want to keep it relatively narrow so that it's we can be successful is about policing and how we deliver police services I think there's a unique moment that we can actually make a change and how we fund things and how we respond to certain incidents and we're learning that already through the this COVID-19 calling number that Jen handles some of the calls and there are people who don't want to call the police they want to call the but they want to tell someone about what's going on and right now this is mostly people wanting to talk about COVID-19 things but it does reveal that there's a need for some other avenue for people to express what their concerns are Liz I just had my hand up and Petua kind of hit on one of the things that I was going to talk about or ask was about the involvement of some of our young people I know there's a number of young activists at the high school anyway for a variety of different reasons and I'm sure that they would love to be involved in some kind of dialogue about the town in which they are living and the other one is just to piggyback on what Erica said about how we interface with the college police departments I have a concern about the number of off-campus things that our police department has to go through for people who are visitors in our house and that report last week about the long weekend and about nine thousand dollars in fines and the police being very busy and how does that all work together as far as who we need to hire or train to keep us safe and in what is their involvement with the community that lives here and how that works with the community that's just visiting for a little bit and when you say just visiting you're thinking is that a reference to students reference students that you know come for a couple years go to school here and then away yeah so I think I think everything can be on the table right now the way the town is set up we have one tool we have a police officer an armed police officer and a cruiser to respond to any call that comes in and it's the only thing that's set up 24 hours a day all the calls that come in go get filtered through that and I think the police officers will say and we train them well and I'm you know but I think that you know they would be the first ones to say we don't need to show up for some of these things and it's not and so I think you know it when one of the things that COVID-19 has revealed to us is that what a sort of how pathetic our social service support system is for people in the town of Amherst and I think that's something that's really become very apparent during this period of time so I think we talked some months ago about the fact that if if there's an issue of creating more work more space for other work to be done in Amherst outside the police department that we would probably need some months to discuss it and I'm so glad that there's a committee that's being formed that is really going to have that focus and really help us reconsider what we're using what policing means in our town I think that's incredibly helpful um is he high I started speaking and then saw your hand pop up please um so I just wanted to mention real quick that I heard back from Cedric and he's not going to be able to join us tonight unfortunately um but I wanted to speak to this um question about public versus not public and I've already expressed this to you Paul but um I think that we have really seen demonstrated through um you know both through the conversation initially with um the chief around how they don't hear from the community um and then we were able to talk about why there are so many barriers to people being able to communicate what's actually going on in their lives um with um the police or anybody who's in authority in terms of town government and so for that reason I I feel really strongly that if you're actually seeking to understand what's going on for people it really needs to be non-public because the people who are most um threatened by our current system are people who um have all sorts of vulnerabilities including um you know citizenship documentation uh other um family members who are already dealing with the um the police or the criminal justice system uh DCF involvement um where bringing more concerns would make them further vulnerable um and so to actually get the real stories um I really feel strongly that it needs to be not only non-public but something that's um actually community based and chosen and not um something that's under the governance of the town and as distance as you can make yourself from the selection process um there's still an aspect to which we're under you we're under the council you know in this setting and in that setting too and uh an actual like um you know in other examples that I've read about about I'm forgetting the word right now but when people when towns have groups that give feedback to the police they're not under the government they're usually uh independent what's the word that they're called um that they keep the police accountable but they can only do that if they're not under the the authority of the police which like the police and the town governments are together so if the town governance is an authority over it I don't think they can actually hold the police accountable um and that's what I'm hoping that we will be able to form in our town is an accountability system that supports people being able to be honest and vulnerable without them having to put themselves at further risk um and that's one of the main reasons why we as a human rights commission have had to acknowledge that people can't bring their human rights complaints to us because we're public and so like that very nature makes it so that people can't actually um share with us what we're supposed to be able to help them with no and I think this sort of tension between being open and accessible and visible which which in government is there's a lot of advocacy to say you got to be more transparent that's why we like that these are zoomings and can be recorded versus the ability for people to really express what they're able to do in a in a private setting which is also a crucial need I think figuring out how to make that happen um you know I am employed by the town of Amherst you know and that's that's our governance structure gives certain responsibilities to certain bodies the town council the town manager whoever it is that's human rights commission and those we are government but you know I think you know honestly you know learning how Healthy Hampshire and the MVP program was able to sort of step outside that through contracts with consultants or something who have can who use a community organizing model or a trusted neighbor friend um you know you know I mean the schools have our reservoir of a lot of trust in our community and utilizing some of those existing avenues outside of the public meeting process is really what we're going to have to do and we're going to have to invest in that that's that doesn't just happen you have to invest into people's time to make that happen so I think that might be what this committee might say we're going to be public but we need someone to go out just for like the ECA energy and climate action committee said we need to be connecting with folks they're not coming to the ECA they're we're getting all that really valuable stuff in a different forum and I think that that's been an eye-opener for us and to see how successful that's been in um and being able to make it do a better job at that and this isn't just a one-time thing like let's get this thing done and be done with it it's got to build this sort of community organizing model I think if we can do that um in their support financially to do that in the town I think that will be a real benefit for us and this sort of builds into the social the lack of social services that the town has so I think one of our things um that we're going to be looking at with our budget is like how do we start to build and I think you know looking at difference um it's a it's a bad time in town government obviously with our town finances but um how do we start to prioritize these things and make say these are important things to do I know Paul has to step off in uh just a couple of minutes um I think it's been helpful to hear um about this possibility of the committee and and for us to think about either um you know whether we would know people who should be on this type of committee or you know we can be thoughtful and encouraging people to engage however the engagement ends up occurring right which I think is still something that is going to be worked out uh moving forward are there any other um questions for for Paul about this before he needs to to step off then I not to put you on a spot but I just have heard other folks mentioning that the model of the school equity task force would be um a good one for Paul to consider I was wondering if you might be able to share like is that committee like under the authority of the school is it separate how did they do that is it beneficial to have it that way yes so it's a it's a subcommittee of the school committee so there there is kind of uh I don't want to say answering to the school committee so I mean we're part of the district by default but it's it's been it's been good because like you have like the uh the non-committee non-school committee members that can basically say what I can't always necessarily say and so it's kind of like an ad like I don't know it's sort of in a direct and efficient avenue to kind of speak truth to power like even if sometimes it's me that they're speaking to at the meetings but no I think it's it's a pretty solid model but but I also do think you need external advocacy as well at the same time like that that's kind of like SCTF is kind of more how I vision what what we're talking about as far as a public group but yeah that's my two things all right any other comments uh while we have Paul on well Paul thank you for joining us thank you and Liz and Erica and Cedric I'm so glad you're all going to be part of this you bring a lot of strength to this committee so thank you for stepping up see everybody hi Paul um so there are a couple of other things on our agenda one is you know we're still trying to figure out and I don't have an answer for this so I'm looking for other people to help think through some of this stuff how we're going to interact and how we're going to form continue to maintain conversations and maintain a sense of of community in order to talk through deal with some of the issues that we wanted to deal with so again we had the last conversation we had was the webinar July 11th I think it was um on on anti-racism we have had some quite since then and I'm sure it's not because it's nothing other than the fact that we're all probably really involved in a lot of other spaces so which I think is is great I think that we're probably all doing things I know I'm uh working on with speakers coming into my like workplace over the next couple of weeks we're going to be speaking on indigenous rights on this upcoming Thursday on um qualified immunity for police officers and and how that leads to other discrimination issues over time and we're specifically going to be looking at that in the spring field uh area on October 1st um and so to the extent that I'm these events or conferences open to the public and y'all are not at those moments at work or at at in class or what have you I will try to share information on those types of things happening and I hope we can all do that for each other share events that are occurring so that we can maintain momentum where we feel we're dealing with some of the issues or at least trying to help think through some of the issues that are relating to the racial and ethnic disparities that we're seeing right now and um you know I'm I'm obviously also concerned that as we're heading into the winter and um as uh governmental uh supplements um to help people who are our employment insecure at this point you know that we are uh going to see further issues one of the things I liked about the um the possibility of this committee is um looking at how we have the information or what information we don't have um on how people are in our community are being treated differently I think it's going to be really important for us and it would be helpful for us um to have the data whether it's uh quantitative something that's been collected by the town or qualitative if we have a way of a community outreach and an in-reach event or some kind of mechanism that lets us have a better sense of what the concerns are in addition to the broader survey that I know um Jen Moisten has been working on as well so um but if there are I know we talked about trying to have speakers coming in this fall and we said that we'd put off uh planning on something for September because we just didn't um we thought that we needed more time and we wanted to have the commission enlarge before we try to engage in more activities but you know now we're looking at the events that we have every year so we have events coming up at least in December where historically we've done a reading of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and allowed for a sense of community and discussion and donuts or something afterwards I don't know what we're going to be able to do this year whether there's a way for us to get together um and to create a sense of community we'll see what October November December bring to us um Jen was that you wanting to to say something I do so I just want to say that if anybody has ideas about something to do moving up which is what you're getting at um in October well maybe October might be a little too soon but in some period in the fall then you know you can um say your ideas now and I also wanted to say that the I've been on an equity task force with the chamber and um they want to do a survey too that goes out to the community so I'm it either needs to be that somehow we can work them together or um or that we the town on itself just lets the chamber do it or one or the other because I don't want to have people to fill out two surveys um and I just also want to mention that the town is now enrolled in the gare I don't know if I talked about that last time which the governance alliance for racial equity and so we are starting inside with staff and training staff so we have an equity task workforce or no core equity team I have like way too many task force and such in my head um so there's a core team that's been meeting and we will start there and then branch out from us so I think to the rest of the town staff and then after town staff including the hiring practice and the recruiting the way that we recruit so all of those things will be taken into consideration to make them be more um equitable and accessible and to get them out to a broader uh recipient more more folks so we're really excited to have that start you know to be have that going on in the town right now so hopefully that can help and I'm just gonna say the human rights say we can do virtually so any event that we were doing um the flag raising I think we could do it very similar to the same way that we did Juneteenth where we get um Amherst media involved and they can um broadcast the the flag raising and us you know going over the declaration and it might work like that for the Puerto Rican Heritage Month in November as well been talking to Martha about that so that's it is it kaya so um I I could be wrong but the piece on the agenda about um just the role of like what we all do on um this commission and how it works um I think that was related to when I had asked that question is that correct but that's so yeah you'd post that and and I had um I think we have touched on it but not really gone through it so I wanted I thought this would be a really good time with new commissioners on yeah yeah so I just I think like what like everything that Jennifer just said is a perfect example of how like Jennifer is extraordinary and you know has a full-time job with the town but does a ton of legwork to support the really the just the ideas that this commission has and um from my experience for the past year I feel like um watching other committees like the committee members do substantial legwork like they have homework that they do not homework but that's like a convenient word for you know for working towards whatever the goals are of the committee and I feel like we have unrealistically relied on Jennifer to do a lot of the legwork um which I really appreciate you um and think you know you're extraordinary and have done an incredible job on so many things but I would like to see um us as a commission really talk about as a group um like how we can be more hands-on in terms of um supporting the goals that we're trying to set and then also to better understand like what does it mean that um we have a chair what does it mean when you know certain activities are only or certain decisions are only what we decide on in these meetings and then there's other things that the chair does outside of what's talked about and discussed and decided upon in these meetings um and just trying to better understand uh how we are going to work together and what our roles are great um so I can only speak from from my experience both as having been on the commission and having chaired the commission uh and that is over the years we've had um different activities and different ways for people to engage so when um when we had Carol Ross on the commission and she uh got funding to do um I think it was coming together uh I don't want to conflate the different entities within town but uh we had a one-year um a grant that she managed and uh she was able to do some programming uh we had discussions around movies that she brought in and I think that it was a way for us to have some discussions around around equity issues in the town um I I have been pushing for the last couple of years for if there are people who are um you know the the the better uh planners uh who want to serve on the commission and who love events and um and want to bring people together um that's that isn't always my skill set and I recognize that and so uh trying to figure out what it means for us to have different skill sets uh is important um with regard to what we do when we aren't um what the roles are when when we're between meetings I think that's an important question so you are a once you have signed on you are a commissioner um and once you've you've been sworn in uh and so that means that you can always speak as for yourself while you're someone who is also on the commission um and that will sometimes mean that uh people will uh ask your opinion ask you to speak at things um and I think that that is perfectly fine as long as it's clear that you're you're speaking for yourself um and that you're someone who the town recognizes and as bringing something to the human rights commission as well the people who we bring on to the commission are usually people who are already very active in town uh and so there are two ways of of viewing that um one is that together we could be like uh some kind of um uh like like the justice league or something where if we all pull together we could do remarkable amazing incredible things um that would be my hope that that's that's the dream um it's also um that we can recognize that people are doing remarkable things um in between meetings and and that we want to be a place where we will continue to support you when you when you come back um if there's a question of how do we plug this in who else should we be talking with in town um that we would be a resource for each other in that way um this is is uh one perspective and I'll say that there's in the bylaw um there uh is a differentiation for uh things that are brought to the human rights director and and uh things that get communicated to the chair of the commission um there are also uh historically although this isn't something that's written into any bylaw the opportunity for people who are working in town or there's an issue that gets brought to the attention of the chair of the commission um and because of some of the concerns Gezi Tai raised earlier uh with regard to things not being public that would be discussed with the chair and sometimes mediated with the chair uh that don't come to the commission and when that has occurred I've tried to uh report generally back uh to the commission in public meeting about the issues that seem to be coming up so um I I will say that um some of us who have been in the same position for a few years would be more than happy uh to allow others to be in in those positions I'm just going to um point out that one of the things um that I uh while I love seeing on everyone's faces um kind of moderating meetings is not my favorite thing um I would I much prefer to be able to listen to everybody and uh and think and then opine uh once in a while and uh that's just my own nature but um if if there are others the other things that occur obviously is that um for chairing is uh you know occasionally you will uh be asked if the if the commission has an interest in something at which point I have to say I can't speak for the commission I can invite you to come speak to the commission and uh and we can figure out if there's room for um for something I will give the example of um I I heard a couple of months ago before we were going to have the the first conversation on anti-racism um I was invited to moderate that kind of discussion by the chair of the town council I said I am a person who lives in this town and and if there's going to be a conversation I'd like to be able to participate and I wouldn't want to moderate myself um however if it's something that you'd like the human rights commission uh to be involved in please come to the human rights commission meeting and talk with us about it um and that's the conversation that we had where uh the commission ended up saying um thank you but we we can do that without having involvement at the town council which was a little bit odd because again she had had brought up the possibility and wanted us to somehow manage it um but on behalf of the town I think that that raises some of the questions um about what our our role is as either a representative of the town facing outward to the people who live in the town or vice versa whether we sometimes push back against what the town council or town manager might be trying to do and we challenge and we question and I think our role historically has been a bit of both um and I look forward to continuing to do that but um you know I'm always willing to hear other thoughts and other directions we could go because eat high please yeah I think that you touched on one of the um just thoughts I had as you know when I first came in last year I was still trying to figure out what this whole thing was about and had never been in anything where you had to do like a I make a motion and like a I and abstain and all that um stuff so I was just trying to figure out what was even happening here um and trying to understand what does it mean that you're the chair and I think that I had the impression at first that you had some special set of like you needed to have some special set of skills or some special like knowledge or that you were some you know required to do something vastly different than the rest of us but as I've been exposed to more committees in town um other than this one I've realized that really even the moderating part that you mentioned is not something that chairs always do you know there's um many examples of different um committees and I feel like you know it'd be interesting you you have been chair for three years and I think you know you've you've been very committed to this which I really respect um and I think it would be interesting to um it you know and when I first came you said you would like to consider somebody else taking over as chair and you've said it again and I think that it would be um interesting to allow you to take that different role and also to allow someone else to um feel what being chair um could mean for them and to consider not requiring so much of the chair and so much of Jennifer but letting things be distributed amongst us um more and that um really from from the exposure I've had to other committees it seems like any of us could be an effective chair um and that really what it comes down to is um you know being being when we get those that feedback that needs to be then brought to the group that we do that responsibly and that we you know make sure that we're doing the whole is there a motion thing but even I think I'm starting to figure that these out um so yeah I guess I'd just like to bring it to the group to consider if there's someone else that feels like they might be willing to try out that role and and to consider that you know we could even use a model like some other committees use of having a vice chair or like a I forget what it's called like an assistant chair so that the one person doesn't feel like they're holding all of it um so yeah I wanted to bring that to the group okay um before we um discuss that a little further I should tell you that the other uh components um the other responsibilities is that uh you're you're responsible for um pulling together the agenda um so if there is anyone who is passionate about this and and really would love to do it um I'd be happy for you to to do that um and again uh it's it's those those calls uh as well from people between meetings that's been less than the last um some months other than also serving on uh the committee that helps consider our new members so that's another component of it so I just wanted to make clear what the different aspects are of it so that if uh if people are interested because I I certainly think that a healthy organization is one that has that kind of change from time to time and uh and I tend to think that um three years of one person in a position is perhaps uh a bit uh too long um that's just my view but uh so I I think what uh I'm hearing is a call for um those who might be interested because we're starting a new year we have new people um and it's it's an opportunity for us to make a decision as a group uh I'm happy to to if you'd like wait till our next meeting and hopefully if we can have everyone there and that way we know if uh there are those who are not currently here who might be interested uh we can involve them and have them be part of that conversation uh are there any uh any other questions about what the the roles have been Debra um I like the idea of waiting until Sid and Cedric are here um I appreciate Gazitaia the way you brought that up that you know it is it does feel like um Matthew and Jennifer just sort of do everything and I just sit in on a meeting and listen and um you know and and I like the idea of making it more participatory with each of us holding more responsibility you know for the meeting um I think the question I wasn't entirely clear um whether it is it written into the bylaw that the chair has to facilitate the meeting and um and also has to be the one to repair the agenda or can could those be two responsibilities that other people just take on so there's less weight on the chair's shoulders I believe the agenda is uh written into the bylaws um as far as chairing the committee meet the commission meetings I don't think that that is written in there but I think it's just been the practice since the as far as I know since the commission has been uh in existence is that whoever's chairing the commission that your your kind of main role as chairing the commission is chairing the meeting of the commission uh but uh as Gazitaia points out outside of that um you don't need to have a uh a special skill set um you know I think everyone who is invited to serve on the commission and who agrees to do so um has shown one that they have the ability to work well with other people and uh and two that they have the bravery to um to manage a meeting certainly and uh and so I think it it's something that we would uh we would imagine that anyone of you who are here would be able to handle and handle well so I know that um I think it makes sense to consider that two of our members are not here and that this is you know a really important topic to get input on and I I'd love to hear from you know Petra and Ben who have been here for the last year um two and I I guess what I'm thinking is um if we could consider putting it on the agenda for the next meeting that we would have um the opportunity to possibly nominate um someone else for the chair or to have someone you know express interest and that we would all think thoughtfully about that in preparation for the next meeting but I want to hear from um others too while we have the topic tonight please um I I think we should wait until we have the other committee members um just so we have everyone here um but I do think it would be it should be on the agenda next year to like nominate or show interest in like becoming a committee member and then maybe I mean not a committee uh a uh chair of the committee um that would be interesting and yeah and just maybe if I think like say like if we could have um opportunities for people the for Matthew to I'm like mentor that person whoever if we do change that person like so just so they know what to do um exactly because yeah and um yeah I think that's that's all I want to say yeah oh sorry we can hear you yeah I was gonna say yeah I agree we should definitely have it on the agenda for the next meeting and I'm with Petra on the on the uh the carryover crossover concept as well but I think that's worthy of discussion as well yeah sometimes people who want to just have a break and do it their own way um you know prefer a little bit less of the the kind of mentorship but if they if that is helpful and I'm happy to uh if if that's the direction that we go I'm happy to um to discuss that so I just um want to say too though this is a really good time to kind of um explore the different duties that everyone is responsible for or should be responsible for and so that within being chair the role can change and that you're still chair but we can we can change the things that are put on the chair particularly if you have a vice chair too because then there's shared weight there so um I I have no comment on waiting or whatever any of that but I would just like to say that this is a great opportunity to kind of redefine if needed regardless of who is chair right so um it's just a good you it gives you guys the opportunity to redefine and then add that vice chair piece if you would like yeah and I just want to respond quickly that um every year that I've been on we've tried to do something a little bit different and so to the extent that um we're looking for just continuity the continuity that we have thus far is the continuity of change so that's uh if there's someone who has different ideas so we have done in the past a liaison role for each of the commissioners um so that there was work between each meeting of actually finding out what was happening in town on certain issues so that is how Sid got involved in housing issues for example because he went over as a liaison and then was drafted in to being on that committee as well so that's a be careful what what you volunteer for situation um and and we had other people who uh tried to volunteer in in different areas and sometimes found that a bit overwhelming so someone who volunteered to go to meetings of two other human rights commissions so that we would be able to kind of work with other towns and have a something that was broader than just a perspective of Amherst it was a really great idea it was not tenable so that's the type of thing that we have tried to do as far as creating work between meetings of making sure that we I think we recognize that we were part of different organizations that were active in town and we came back and reported on on some of the good work that those organizations were doing as well so those are things that we have done between meetings this past year obviously was very truncated and we um are still trying to revamp um the the thinking that we had last November that we were hoping to get underway in the in over the course of this calendar year and we stopped after after your birthday because it kind um uh and so that that was the end of February for those of you who were not here at the time um and so we've only gotten things back up again a bit since our meeting June 6th I think was the first time we met since February because of the pandemic so as we are trying to pull together what our work will look like for this upcoming year I would recommend that we don't try to make a plan for a calendar year just because of the turnover and instead do it through June and July possibly through August so that the next group of people who come in if there's three new people for example or two new people that they can be part of the plan for the following year as well um but that that was um the the discussion of our roles and uh and the roles that you should feel comfortable stepping into I really do believe that other than those who might be um going off if that's how schools work in a year um other than those people that uh you know we would be uh lucky to have any of you uh continue to to kind of broaden what we do as a commission so um I look forward to continuing to discuss that um questions for because I guess we don't have any uh recommendations right now for planning a specific conversation for November and I know for me things are piling up and backing up um with other events um but if we do have something that or if there's someone who would feel really comfortable uh reaching out and a liaising with the um the uh BID and Chamber of Commerce um if there's someone who would be really excited about that that's fine um if uh Jennifer's the only one who's in touch with them and knows what their survey's about um I would be happy to try in the next month to reach out to Gabrielle Gould touch with is it Gabrielle Jennifer or is it someone else you're still on mute you froze a second so but I think I it picked up so it's Gabrielle no it's um it's Claudia Claudia posmani okay um is there anyone else who wants to engage on the uh question of and and then report back to us if we have time in the next month um on what a what it would be like to have a town um human rights sponsored survey and something that would also come from the Chamber of Commerce are you talking about trying to combine efforts with the Chamber survey and if that's been working on yeah if that makes sense Jennifer do you have an idea on this or think that yeah but I mean I'm sitting on their equity task force that's the only reason why I know and that's the group that would be sending out the survey and while I I do welcome but I'm just saying I'm you're there you've got it I'm already there but what I will say is if we do decide to move forward with the survey where we will need the help from the commissioners is making sure that it goes out to the community members and so what we what seems to happen often is that people forget that there the members that are already tapped into town government will know that the survey is there because they will just go on the website we need to go out deeper into the community and get the voices of those who we don't usually hear from so I've also been going following the mobile market lately and an effort to do outreach so and I'll and we have these really cool masks oh I should send you guys all the great masks their town of Amherst masks um Jen I saw sorry I okay I want one and I'm so mad that I had to see it through another co-worker you are gonna get in trouble for that Jennifer because my son has one and I'm like okay where is mine I'm glad you brought that up because I wanted to bust it oh yes I know I it was a great I had so much fun doing that um so and I just also want to say like part of what I'd like to do is events because I'm doing outreach right but what ends up happening is I just from creation to end I end up with the project so it's I need the help in the middle right um because the outreach serves as a dual or more than dual for me because I've got the HR recruiting piece I've got the human rights piece and I've got the um community participation officer so all of that I mean these events I would be at anyway somehow some way but um the survey again is that it's going to require us to be hands on if possible or as hands on as possible as we can be mm-hmm did you raise your hand less um if you need help going out in the community and some of our places especially the places where we've done food deliveries where people are underrepresented I did the food deliveries up until school started and it was a wonderful opportunity for me to network with other people see the kids see their joy when they got their meals talk to some other people who were just meandering by and um so if you need help going out into the community go into the boulders knocking on some doors um trying to be there when they do the food deliveries when some of the parents come pick up the food saying hey we have this quick survey do you mind taking a few minutes to fill it out that's the kind of thing that I like to do great and that's with you that's fantastic and then so we're also if you guys know we will need translators right so I know that we already have Spanish and since is Portuguese but we um and then say how so I found out like the Cambodian community isn't most likely won't oh I don't want to say they won't read the the survey but it's better I think that they have more conversations from what I was informed by um say how like it's just easier if they they just talk um in person about it so reaching out to say how I don't know does everybody know say how um he's fantastic he is I would say he is the Cambodian ambassador really I mean he is just fantastic in that way um so well yeah I Jennifer if you can really um like when it's ready if we can sit down and divvy up these places amongst us I think you know um then we can attach an interpreter to whoever you know and make it conversation I think really conversations better for most people um but if we if we can commit to you know taking our you know taking the different spots um once the survey is ready then that's something I I would definitely be a part of too and the other thing about the survey is it's I'm not sure that it's it it's so hard because you have to be very um particular about a survey and have a direct target right so our direct target is kind of like we just want to hear in general from the community about what their issues are so that we can help educate them further on those or help them in whatever way that we can so it's like really do we ask these really general questions or do we get more specific like and I and I'll send the survey back out because we have three new members but I will say I only heard back from well I think there's only five of you guys right so I heard from from three people out of the six that were already there that are already members so I just I need some like I think it it might need to be more words specific or I don't know but it's we don't we just so and I have to see what the chamber wants to do I don't yeah so I just wanted to say that the League of Women Voters uh was trying to figure out what information the town has and so I I did have a conversation for an hour with people from from the League of Women Voters of just what information we don't have or that doesn't come through the Human Rights Commission and they were trying to pull together people who do polling and and not polling maybe but but who do quantitative and qualitative analysis from the local universities or university and colleges to see if there's a way to to kind of gather information I think that that that conversation might be part of what has led to some of the components of this committee that will be chosen by a committee that Paul was was talking about is how do we figure out what information we can gather from the community that's specific to the question of the community safety question as opposed to things more broadly but I think if we're trying to figure out how to reach out and how to provide additional information and what information people want you know the the question of what should be narrow and what should be broad and what questions we should ask I think it's tough and and you know I think a lot of people are are struggling to figure out how do we find out from our broader community what conversations we should be having and so I think it's great that the Chamber of Commerce is trying to figure it out too but but I think it's hard to figure out exactly what those what we're information we're hoping to get with the questions and what we're promising return but Deb had her hand up okay just real quick it's been weeks since you sent that out Jennifer so I actually can't exactly remember but I think the survey had to do with educational events and forums and webinars and stuff wasn't it like what kind of conversations would you like to see happening in the town it was it was a little bit of everything right the the webinar piece came out only because so many people spoke about the fact that they couldn't break out into breakout sessions at the previous at the community conversations which I still you know I just I just make the event you know I just help with the events so the flip side and and so the rest of it was more geared to to equity and in and equality issues such as like oh my gosh have you experienced or have you seen or racial and you know how have you seen it can you describe an event that's happened or something that's happened to you can you describe what you saw that happened to somebody as a bystander and then part of it was yes like how would you like to be educated would you prefer to be in a more hands-on task oriented way or do you want to deal with policy and procedures like it it it kind of hit a little bit of everything but you know I can also say that we could just hold workshops and that could just be it right like we could just say we are just going to just start one that's on on cultural humility and then that's it right and then we can kind of find out that way we can just go down the main topics of it and find out that way too it doesn't necessarily have to be the survey but you know I'm just trying to throw out is it's so hard now because we can't do anything live we're not really gathering one other question I have is um do you is the chamber at all interested in combining efforts or is this a conversation that we still have to have with them I was unclear oh no I'm having the we've had the conversation and they're open to yes okay I think one survey is better than two I don't think we want well us to send our own and the chamber to send one I think that's and I think that's why we decided that if we were both going to do it that we would combine them because I'm honestly if I had two surveys too close together I might just like you know so the only thing I'd say on that is if if we had a very different reason for doing the survey like if the the chamber wants to know how people will come back out in town and what will get them engaged and like that would be a very different thing than than what we would be concerned about so but if they're just you know giving a different survey then then that's fine um Liz so I just wanted to hit on something that both Deborah and Jennifer said and we just need to be careful about the surveys because because of COVID and the opening of school and uh hybrid model versus this model uh some of our families have been surveyed to death in the last couple of weeks a month a month or so um so just I'm not sure what the timeline is for the survey I just want us all to be aware of that and when we're talking about community event I can't wait till we have another block party okay I'm done um so I the the chamber's survey is to serve similar the same the same need the we're looking for the same information right basically like because at the end of the day the the the residents support the businesses and the businesses support the residents so if you go into a business and you feel like you've been treated unfairly right then that's the kind of thing that you would answer in their survey and our survey right because we're asking you what kind of experiences have you had or have you witnessed or seen so they're very similar they're not really like what's going to make you come back it's more geared to racial inequity and and like things like would it be helpful if there was a grocery store in town or do you have transportation so it's it's all of it's all of those types of things that are that it's about which I think um it's good and again we don't necessarily nor does the chamber have to do the survey we again we can just host events and we'll get that information and it might move a little faster I don't know I'm not I'm not sure Erica um I kind of want to follow up on what Jen and Liz were saying um I'm kind of concerned about the survey stuff um A for the same reasons that we're listed but I think the communities that we really want to reach how many of them are actually going to do the surveys um and for various reasons whether it's technology purposes language purposes etc I mean I think the communities that we really want to reach do better I feel like do better and we will do better as a commission if we actually have a like conversation whether it be held by zoom or we get out there on a Saturday morning and we just have flyers out there and let the community know like hey we're having this we're here to have a conversation and I think we'll have better a better outcome if we go out and reach out to them to where they feel safe and I think they'll have a better chance to open up if we find a neutral territory or go on to meet them to where they're at if that makes sense so that's just what my two sons are because I'm kind of over the survey thing personally can I just do a quick check in are we going to like we're a little over I recognize that I thought that because people seem to be happy to continue discussing things I will acknowledge that while I'm leaving this I made my dinner before we started and I'm going to eat it at some point so I wouldn't mind us finishing up one of the things that I'll point out is if we look at again a very short minutes that just shows what we can actually vote on and what decisions we've made we'll see that we have really thought through things well together which I think is a very good thing but that there aren't that many decisions that we've made for what exactly we're doing moving forward and so I think it's helpful to just have that minute so that we're able to decide if we want to hit on specific items that we want to feel ready to make a decision on when we get to our next meeting and we want to put that on the agenda then we're able to see that a little bit more easily than recognizing the wonderful conversations that we've had that help us understand each other and understand you know how we think we're interacting with our community so that's just a something for us to think about and Deb if it's you had something to say and I agree with because he kind of that that we are over time but yeah I was just going to respond to Erica that I under normal circumstances I 100% agree with you and just during COVID I just don't know how you know if how we make we make that reach you know how we reach out like that I know I appreciate it even though I don't I have limited time but I did appreciate the school surveys because I it I felt like it gave me an opportunity to have a voice in the discussion which otherwise I would not have felt but I do hear that concern that not everybody will want to participate in in that you know in that format and we do have to figure out how to reach people who won't or can't I just you know with COVID I just don't know how we do that so that's my that's my only concern and is a limited survey better than no no survey I just like I don't yeah can I just want to jump in real quick because I know we all are ready to go um but my dog is like I'm ready for a walk um uh one of the things that I've been trying to do is join in with other already established organizations that are you know currently they're doing things outside so that works but that's also a really good way to reach a different population right because so that's how I ended up at the mobile market and the lunch drop us I think those are masks just like jump in and we can be safe and socially distanced and like even have you know ask people the questions and have that and we can like market for them so we're not having to like pass pens and papers and that's running till December is it running till December is that what I heard at minimum yeah we're they've changed the sites but they're still like at the complexes okay um but but I'll again it could be a both and instead of an either or so we could reach make sure we're not missing those those voices that might be missed through just something over email or something on a website and also collect data from people through a website or through you know however however the survey would generally go out to reach as broad a population as possible all right um well this was our kind of more introductory meeting for new members as well as our kind of startup for what we're hoping to do this fall I want to take this opportunity again to welcome Liz and Erica and and say hello to everybody else too but I need to ask for a motion to adjourn if if there's no further business I make a motion to adjourn is there a second all in favor all right have a great night everybody we are adjourned and I'll see you soon thanks Liz and Erica nice to meet you guys bye everybody bye good night