 Hi everyone. Welcome to another edition of Thinking Things Through, Thinking Critically in Critical Times. I'm your host, Michael Sukoff. Today we have with us Alfonso Braggs, the current president of the Hawai'i NAACP. We're going to be discussing gun violence, race, and the big picture, as well as other issues. Welcome to the show, Alfonso. Thank you very much for having me. Wonderful to have you. Now, in addition to being the president of the Hawai'i NAACP for the past 18 years, you currently serve as assistant secretary of the National NAACP, is that correct? Yes. And you've served on their board of directors for the past nine years. Just for our listeners and viewers who may not be familiar, could you tell us what NAACP stands for? Certainly, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. Wonderful. Is there anything you'd like to add briefly about your background or interests or anything you'd like the listeners and viewers to know? Well, certainly I have been a wonderful resident here of Honolulu since 1992. It is certainly my home now in the longest place that I've ever lived. I've been a longtime social justice advocate, and I can't say anything more. Wonderful. Excuse me a second. Well, let's dive right in, Alfonso. First of all, I appreciate it, and I'm sure our listeners and viewers would as well for you to talk briefly about your work with the Hawaii NAACP, and particularly as that work might relate to issues like race, racism, violence, economic inequality, poverty, discrimination, or any other issue that you'd like to focus on. Okay. Yeah. So currently in 2022, some of our more prevalent focus obviously is elections, just really making sure that underrepresented groups are actively engaged, that their voice is heard and respected, and we intend to do that collaboratively with other African American organizations here on the islands to hold candidates forums, engage the candidates directly, also ensure there's increase in voter registration and awareness. We are also addressing mental health in the black community. It's an unrecognized or it's a hidden traumatic issue that we really need to address in this day and age, and also youth health is a critical issue for us this day, such as juvenile diabetes, we're doing workshops and such to kind of bring a focus to that, and obviously we've got ongoing civil rights issues that we are currently and continuously engaging. I see. Let's dig a little bit deeper here. Why is it that you and your organization are so interested in working on these issues, such as elections, mental health, and just the state of the black community on Oahu and nationally as well. So let me reframe the question just a bit. We are an organization that is committed to civil rights of all individuals, and the human rights and those rights being protected as they are inferred in and guaranteed within the Constitution. Since 1909, we have been in this fight and we have championed a number of causes. And so we're engaged primarily in elections because the right of an individual in America to vote is one of the most treasured rights and must be protected and it cannot be taken for granted. So our advocacy is to ensure that even the very least of those underrepresented populations, particularly communities of color, are fully engaged and that their voice is heard and that their rights are protected. Okay. I'm going to push you again on this a little bit and I apologize if maybe I'm not asking the right questions, but go ahead. Why is it so important, if you do believe it's so important, for African Americans, people in the black community to exercise the right to vote? Well, I'll be a little constitutional here for a moment and tell you and our audience that we have not always had the right to vote. When this country first organized, the people who believed that they had the right to vote and make decisions were Caucasian males. And so, thankfully, a few amendments to the Constitution have given men of color and women the right to vote. And even after those, there has been a tumultuous struggle to preserve that right. We managed to make certain earmarks in the 1965 Voting Rights Act after a long struggle and we continued. We thought that we had some protections, however, Title 5 or Section 5 of that Voting Rights Act was gutted out through a Supreme Court decision. And now we are in a very vulnerable situation with states making certain provisions that in our perspective is disparate and actually violate and deny or disenfranchise not only African Americans, but people of color, some of our seniors and others, that opportunity to have an equal opportunity in the voting process. So I hope that's a little more definitive as to why it is that NAACP is unconditionally committed to the fight for voting rights and their protections. Thank you. Now I'd like to move our conversation to a slightly different topic, but before I do that, let me just say that a lot of the issues that we are and we'll be talking about are connected. I mean, that's my, that's the belief of this host. And so as you know, because we've talked before, before we've gone on air here, I'm very interested in your perspective on the mass shootings that have been taken place in this country. In particular, the mass shooting that occurred just this past weekend, the July 4th weekend in Highland Park, Illinois, the earlier school massacre in Valde, Texas on May 24th, and the May 14th shooting at a supermarket in a predominantly black neighborhood of Buffalo, New York. Now I realize it's a big segue to go from talking about voting rights to these issues. But I'm wondering how you would see these issues, these mass shootings and the whole problem of gun violence and particularly the killing of African Americans, whether it's by police or by people who just decide to pick up a gun and shoot somebody else. What's the relationship between these kinds of social problems and I consider them deep social problems and the right to vote? Well, let me, I'm glad that you asked that question and I will tell you that as Dr. King often said that they're irrestrictably bound. It is through the voting process that we change policy. It is through the voting process that we elect individuals who will frame ordinances, laws and directives that set in place of how we will handle gun violence, how we will sustain in a community, how we will govern our neighborhoods and the rights and who makes decisions and everything. So that's why the voting pieces is very, very important here. As it relates to this recent series of mass shootings and certainly loss, tragic loss of human lives, it's extremely troubling for everyone. It is even more traumatic for people of color in communities, particularly black communities, where there's a disproportionate population of individuals that are ill affected. And so many of these just did not have to happen. And so we're noticing an increase in these types of hate crimes against communities of colors, against blacks, against Asians and others. And the interesting thing here, and this is not just the platitude here, but hate is not a respect of color, race, gender or age and our economics. And so one of the things that we believe is that there has to be immediate comprehensive gun legislation that addresses the protection of human rights, the protections of citizens' rights, as well as basic protections of American citizens and the people who stand within her shores. And so I think that the issue for me, at least from my vantage point, is this. Individuals in the policy making decision are too caught up in the politicalization of things rather than their commitment to preserve and protect the individuals who place them in office. And so I think that you have to kind of remove yourself from the politics and invest yourself in that commitment to help preserve a more perfect union as the framers of the constitution suggest it. That's okay. Thank you very much. How can how can someone who's either in elective office or running for elective office remove themselves from politics and what I'm getting at here, because I think your point is very well taken, is our political system is set up such that money and power by access, they buy media time, they buy campaign contradictions, the whole system, the way I see it is distorted by money and power. So that anybody who even thinks about running for elective office, except perhaps a very local elective office that doesn't require huge funds, it doesn't require huge commercial time advertising. Anybody besides a person like that, who's on the even the state or the national level. They are forced to play the game the way it's already been set up. So I'm wondering, apropos of what you said, how we could get to a point in this country where people who run for elective office, and it could be ordinary citizens, could separate themselves from politics when politics is so deeply intertwined with money and power. Yes, I think that individuals have to make a conscious decision to truly represent the people that elected them. And we're seeing some individuals who are willing to run without big corporate donations. They're individuals who are willing to run that don't choose to be a part of a primary party. Unfortunately, systemically here, we have indentured our future to political parties and systems rather than individuals who dedicated themselves to the best interest of humankind. And so now they become influenced by that opportunity to live a certain lifestyle based on those particular powerful positions. And until we change that dynamics, we are victims of that systemic issue. However, as the purse holder, as the individual voter, we have the final say. And so I think the first thing that we do is accountability. We cannot just vote. We have to hold the people we elect in office accountable for the decisions they're made. We also have to have the moral courage to step up and say that perhaps our parliamentary process needs a bit revising. In other words, there are some things like line item veto or single item laws or bills that would preclude pork loading. They would preclude stacking on things that we know that we that in other words, the bill is being manipulated by someone's agenda. Let's just say we know that we're going to defend, we're going to fund the defense appropriations bill. So we will put something in there that we know is not popular, and yet it will ride, it will make it out. And we call ourselves servants of the community. And that's not the case. So I think that there's some, there's several things that we could do. And we just need to hold the elected individuals accountable. And we need to probably take a hard look at term limits because individuals who feel themselves vested long term. I mean, that's kind of why we got away from the monarchy system was because until someone died in office, you know, or in the seat, they made the final decision. So I think that there's things that people have to engage in order to make the change. Okay. So I just thought of you thought of one example of the line item veto getting rid of that. There's also, it's right now, it's very much in contention about, you know, doing away with the filibuster in Congress. And we've also got, for example, gun legislation that gets passed by the by the House because the House is majority Democrat controlled. And it goes nowhere. You have the George Floyd Act, which has gone nowhere. So I agree with what you're saying. The problem I see, and I'd like your thoughts on this as well, is we have an entrenched vocal and powerful minority at the national level in this country, the Republican Party, who are able to stonewall any of the kinds of changes that we might want to see happen, such as doing away with the filibuster, such as restoring the Voting Rights Act to its full strength, et cetera, et cetera. So I'm wondering what you think. This seems to be a real roadblock to bringing about the kinds of changes that that you're suggesting. So I'm wondering what you have to do is there needs to be honest, forthright conversations. And until individuals are held accountable for their decisions, then we will continue with the status quo. The parliamentary process is there to protect the right of the minority. And that constitution gives us rights as minorities. And so I support the parliamentary procedure. What I do not support, and I can't find a colleague that does, is that it is being manipulated. It is the moral compass that has gotten misguided that is that individuals are violating that trust of elected office, and they're making a political decision instead of a advocate decision, a responsible decision. And that's why they use that parliamentary privilege to stonewall a particular act or bill to keep it from moving forward. And I will be spiritual for a moment and say all things may be lawful. They're just not prudent to do so. And so it's similar to the cop that recognizes that you're speeding. He can use his judgment as to whether or not to issue a ticket, or he can have a conversation with you and send you on your way. And I think that if we had more members of Congress who were willing to get into some John Lewis good trouble and make a moral decision about the way forward for this country, we would be in a better position. And that takes a huge step for some of these individuals who are truly vested. And that's why I think term limits are one of those means by which they can't become too encumbered in those privileges that allow them to disregard their constituents back home. I'd like to refocus our conversation now. It's been wonderful so far we're fast running out of time. Let's talk about the legacy of the civil rights movement if you don't mind. I was certainly influenced by that as a young child. And what comes to mind, I'm not exactly sure why, but I believe Martin Luther King, it was either a speech or a short track he wrote called why we can't wait. Are you familiar with that? I don't write off the top of my head. It doesn't matter because I'm sure there are many things you're familiar with that I have no clue about. But what I'm thinking is maybe we need to do both and maybe we can't wait for one of these politicians to have the moral courage to do as you're suggesting. John Lewis was one such person. Very few others who have been like that, who have actually been elected officials. Yeah, Barbara Jordan. There are others I'm sure. Yeah, but I'm wondering if we also need to work outside of the legislative process. This is what I understand the civil rights movement was about. People and in the case of the American civil rights movement, it was blacks, it was whites, it was others who created along with Martin Luther King and other leaders from the Southern Christian Leadership Conference and others created a powerful movement that at first had to go outside of the system. Because of the horrible discrimination and violence that was being perpetrated on blacks in the South. I was a child then. I remember pictures of the fire hoses and children being beaten and that was graphic. But it wasn't just the visual images, it was the fact that there was a movement going on that was independent of the institutions. And a lot of people today would argue that we really even need that more desperately right now than we need to do both. We need to work inside and outside the system if you want to call it that. And just to connect this up and I see where you are fast running out of time, you know, we had a Black Lives Matter movement over two years ago now and that brought masses of people out into the streets, not just blacks, whites and others. And it really seemed to be starting to push towards the change in laws and funding of police departments. It really seemed to have some momentum. Where that movement is now would be another cold conversation. But I wanted to bring that up. And also I want to get to the issue of community because I know that's something we've spoken about and that is very important to you. And I'm wondering how the community is connected with all this. So I will kind of wrap us up here where we first began. And so we talked about voting, we talked about gun violence, we talked about racism, we talked about all of those nuances. And at the end of the day, it all comes down to community. You've heard me say a community of color, particularly blacks or Asians or Hispanic or whomever group it is. I think that the issue that we're having in the world today is that we don't have a respect for cultural awareness. We don't have a respect for diversity, equity and inclusion. We don't see a need to engage our fellow man on the critical issues of the day. And so if we are to sustain and Dr. King often reminded us of this, if we are to sustain as a humanity, we've got to learn to live together. And so I think that there are several things we've got to go back and we have to put the neighbor in the neighborhood. We literally have to do that. We have to start from a position of what does it mean to love our fellow man to care for our fellow man and serve our fellow man. And we have to establish trust. That means that policemen have to do more than just drive by, that they have to intimidate, that they have to engage the communities at all level. And they've got to do more of it. The workforce has to be more representative of our most diverse community. We have to be more than just politicians with nice eloquent orientations that, hey, sounds good, and there's no follow through. And we have to also ensure the future. Dr. Mary McLeod Bethune in her last will and testament told us the most precious thing that we can do is secure the future for our kids and make sure that they had an opportunity for this great education. And unless we do these basic things that Maslow identified in his hierarchy of needs, we are destined to fail as a humanity, thus our community and its infrastructure is going to crumble and we're going to be lost. And we're going to continue to have all of these distractions and diversions and the very least of these creations are going to suffer tremendously. Thank you. And just to close, I'd like us to end on a little bit more of a hopeful note. So I'm wondering what you think citizens can do to bring about the kinds of changes or the kind of world or the kind of neighborhood and community that you feel so strongly about? I think that every person, and I'll just say here locally, embody what it means to show Aloha. We have to feel comfortable to just say hi to someone. Be bold enough to ask someone how they're doing it. If you see something say something, it's going to be appreciated. But we have to take charge of our communities. Thank you so much. That's all the time we have for today. We've been speaking with Alfonso Braggs, president of the Hawaii NAACP. Alfonso, thank you so much for joining us today. It's certainly been my honor and a privilege to be with you and I look forward to another opportunity. Wonderful. This has been thinking things through, thinking critically and critical times on Think Tech Hawaii. I'm your host, Michael Sukoff. Thanks as always to our engineers, Haley Ikeda and the rest of the studio staff, and much appreciation to Jay Fidel. Please join us again two weeks from today at the same time wherever you may be. Mahalo and Aloha. Mahalo.