 You're welcome back. It's still the run-up and today we are, our concern is on vote buying. You know that it's four days, 12 hours to the election proper, presidential election, national assembly elections, that is the Senate and the House of Assembly. They are going to, House of Representatives, sorry, they are going to, they, there's going to be election into these offices, Office of the President and offices of the senators and the House of Representatives. And we're just worried about one thing that has been on the mind of Nigerians. Whether you talk about the cash crunch, people related to vote buying. When you talk about corruption, people related to vote buying. When you talk about a free and fair election, people talk about vote buying as well. So it worries us. Now that we have the beavers, a lot of people had their confidence raised because beavers, according to them, might in some ways help to mitigate this ugly incident of vote buying. But it seems the politicians are strategizing and like they say, if the birds learn to fly without perching, the hunter will learn to shoot without missing. Well, if that is the case here now, we are yet to find out because the day is very close by. We have also to discuss with us here on the show today, Mr. Alexter Wilcox, a public affairs analyst. Mr. Wilcox, welcome to the program. Thanks for having me. It's my pleasure. Thanks for being on the run. Okay, a quick one now. We're talking vote buying. Do you think it is something that we can overcome in this election? Sincerely, the entire concept of vote buying to me is this time very, I've not been able to place any logical analysis on what vote buying can present or what it entails. Maybe because I've not been, I've not experienced vote buying, I've been a voter at least in the, throughout this dispensation of our, is it for the public? I've been a voter since 1999. And then I've not been approached by anyone or the, or seen where votes buying to place, take place. Yes, I keep hearing it, but votes are being bought. Sincerely, how do you buy a vote? By inducing people, maybe with cash or whatever. I think from onset, even through the election year, the people are, if, if, if, what is happening to electronic companies, inducement, then votes are already being bought because people share a lot of gift items. People share, FISTA, people share T-shirts, umbrellas, all those things. Some people share packed food and packed rice and everything. So I think the concept of vote buying is not only by money, but even all those that are doing, build up to the election. Mobilizing people to come for rallies is, I think it's all part of vote buying. It's not unnecessary on the idea of election, when you say people say they give 1,000 a year to those on the line. I've not seen it, sincerely. And so, if we're looking at vote buying, just limited to that election day, when people give 1,000 a year, then we are, we've lost the track of vote buying. If all this that has been happening, people have been holding town hall meetings, people have been having campaigns all over the place. Some people receive churches, some, some, some unconfirmed, unverified reports says people donated money to churches through their association. So, so vote buying has, if, so we must see vote buying in the broader context, other than what happened on election day. If you go to a community and you donate money for the age grade association, you donate money for the, for the, for the, to the international institution, you really don't vote buying. So, this idea of limiting vote buying concept to only on election day, when people queue on the line. I think for me, that is narrowing the subject. So, we must sit in a broader concept. So, it can't do a way with it. If that, you can't do a way with it because so long as there's electionary, there's too many interests. So many interests that must be taken care of before the election. And this is what goes on. So, it, and it's cut across all parties, even though they see the, then they give sushi. They cut across because you are mobilizing people to come for your campaign rallies. You are mobilizing people, you are, you are printing t-shirts, you are printing caps, you are sharing those things. So, it's all in the, in the, in the ambience of vote buying. So, for whatever it takes that this present cash crunch is made to, to fight vote buying. I think it's a shallow and very narrow concept of the general principle of vote buying. It, the vote has always been bought. If us are today, communities have no middle demand vote for, which is generally the demand to vote for them. I don't think that institution is waiting on the election day to queue up and get a 1,000 naira or 5,000 naira. I don't think so. Those ones that can happen on the, on the election, they are pulling the, those ones are just, they are just minus parts of the entire bigger, bigger structure. So, as far as I'm concerned, you can't do it with vote buying. So, long as African election is concerned. Or does this speak to the majority of our democracy or you just feel it's African nature and there will never be a time where that will change? Well, because we are used to certain way of life, which I condemn really in other party, and I will tell you for free, I have never received any of such inducement, prey or during election. I have never, I've never even been in association where they come and give money, mobilize for us. I've never. That is for me. And of course, I condemn this. But you see, we're in an environment where we see the politician as those that can solve our problem individually. We don't see the politicians as those that can solve our problem collectively. And it's a mentality thing. We see them as those that can solve our problem individually. So, you see yourself as, okay, before we mobilize, you must give us something. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's like a behavioral, let me not say cultural, it's a behavioral thing. And we are going with it. And as the day goes by, we expand on it. Because people go to campaign in villages, they go to traditional rulers. You don't go to traditional rulers empty-handed in this, in this country. You don't go to traditional rulers empty-handed. It has been established norm. When you go to traditional rulers, you must go with something. And so that can cascade down. And so it's our way of life. You don't go and hold meetings with market associations, which we are looking for there for trade associations. You don't go there empty-handed. When you go there, you must, you must, you must let them know you have come. So it's our pattern of behavior. And as far as I'm concerned, we can't get away or act out of it because it will be like, oh, you want to create a new, as even those that say their slogan is, we need to give shish. It's a line. So long as you go to those organizations, so long as you go to those interest groups, so long as you go to those associations that you need their support, you will give those shishi, more than shishi. That you don't give shishi on the streets, go to the rulers, start sharing shishi. It doesn't mean that we're able to do stakeholders, the so-called as-room stakeholders. You do not mobilize. So it may not be a way in the shortest possible time. Okay, Bayo, I leave him to you. Yes, Mr. Wilcox. Thanks for your first practice. I was, I agree with you that the manner in which we might vote or the manner of our electioneering process is definitely going to be a reflection of our values and our environment. Although I don't agree that this is an African thing. I've worked in many African countries. I think we shouldn't generalize. If we have this problem in Nigeria, we should just limit ourselves to Nigeria. But I completely agree with your expression. Now, do you think that our population are sensitized enough to understand the importance of voting the right people? Because when we keep accepting to be induced before we vote, and then we turn around to complain about the non-performance of the people we put there, are we not ourselves actually, how do I say it now? Architects of our own misgovernance. I am in total agreement of few of what you are saying. You see, I remember in 2008, one Obama was contesting for office and I told somebody, I said, look, Obama cannot give anybody money to vote for him. Other people give Obama money to contest elections. You see, it's a lie. How can that be? That Obama must have given himself. Obama, people give Obama money to contest elections. And that is what it's supposed to be. But unfortunately, it is the fact that we have excused poverty, which I don't believe that we are that abjectly poor. We have excused poverty and we think Nigeria is an abjectly poor society. Which for me, it's a lie of the devil. Because the energy is enterprising and nobody sits at home and feels this. And even the man that says pure water on the street, because of the size of our economy and the size of our population, it's a big population that even does herself pure water on the street. Some of them are trained at the university. But unfortunately, we elites, we social media analysts, we analysts on TV and radio, we have changed the way to paint Nigeria as the poverty-stricken country. And so we've excused people based on the fact that organs are poor, they can't get the square meal, that's why they collect those money. But again, it's being, as I say, it's being plural. And we only have to reinforce those plural attitudes. No. I keep telling people, early time I come. I say, look, I live in Shumon. It's a suburb, it's a middle-income area. But if you see the amount of money people spend there to drink beer, to drink, to drink the soup, and not the money people spend on food, food, parties, many ceremonies, on a daily basis, if you compute those things, you will know that we are not a poor country in terms of individuals. Yes, there are people who are fortunate. But we have made ourself in that, like that, if somebody wants to give you 1,000 Nairan, if you come out to be attached to any people in Nigeria, they don't know if it's on any paper. They have this sense of entitlement. And we want to pick that thing that you want to be that looks free, just to pay the same that they are unfortunate people. And I ask somebody, if on election day you get 1,000 or 1,500 from somebody, that cannot even give you a good pot of soup. So what do you eat other days that others do not give you money? You see, because they are poor, they cannot feed themselves. So what do you eat after that? Have you gone to commit suicide? Have you had unable to commit suicide because you didn't have food to eat? So it is a mental thing. And I think our media analysts, our TV's should start referencing to Nigerians the dignity of their personality. When you know the dignity of your personality, then you will know that you are not poor because you think you don't have more of your poverty, you have more because you don't have an idea on your head. Or you feel bad, or you feel low, apart from your personality. So as far as I can tell, it's not because we are poor, but because we just have this sense of entitlement, this sense of, let me just grab what I can grab, let me just give that free thing, that free, then just get it and then everything can take off itself. Okay, now I want to take you to the size, the sheer size of the landscape, the voting landscape for the presidential election. In the last elections, we had 119,973 polling units for the presidential election. This time, 2023, INEC has increased the polling units to 176,846. Now, each presidential candidate, and we have 18 registered political parties. Although I heard that five parties have endorsed one candidate, so if you begin to ask yourself why they are in the race in the first place, but now we have 18 registered political parties, so we are going to have 13 presidential candidates, if five have already endorsed one person. So imagine now, each presidential candidate must have a polling agent in each of the 176,846 polling units, and this has made, even if you are paying a polling agent just 5,000, right? Some have argued that these are part of the things why our elections are so expensive, both for the political parties and for the state. And we are talking about good buying. How do we, how does this massive landscape, you know, affect the smaller parties or weaken the smaller parties? Who are not able, who have nobody in government? They don't have any government, they don't have any senate or anything, and so they don't have access to, as we know in the country, this is how parties command patronage and which in turn may help them fight elections. So they are already disenfranchised, in quotes, in some ways. So how do you see us dealing with this kind of problem? Because it's part of the larger issue of heavily monetized electoral process. Look, for me, I think, the answer is not perfect. You play in the league that you know you can play, that you are a political partisan, you must feel a pressure coming. Look, I have always argued on this front. There are some parties in the US and other places that they just concentrate in one county. They concentrate in one county on one house of rep seats or house of assembly seats. You say, this seat, we must keep it. And everything we do, we have to keep that seat. That is part of election, that's part of democracy. There are big parties, there are small parties. I'm not trying to despise anybody. But in political life, sure, you know that the guy is only just trying to make noise. It's a pretend that if not the momentum that the people gather through the Eastern bloc and the youth that set a problem, we have even won a lecture on the liberal party. But right now, because of the momentum of the moment and the youths and then the Easterners now choose to support him and then begin to expand his ideology. Of course, it's a good start. In every way, there are established parties. Even in the UK, you have liberal, you have political. America, you have democracy, you have the political. It delivers good other parties. They are out there. So they choose where they have strength. You cannot go and put agents in world-renowned, 74,000 local, and you say, at least one. And of course, parties can have two. They can have three. You say, at least one in every political unit. So if you can have at least one agent, and there is to be a space, that's why the law even allowed that. President Kande should have at least five billion to spend. At least five billion. Half of rep, at least, I think it's 17 million or whatever. So they have, there's a way they can complete the other one because they know it's an expensive venture. And because of that space, people are supposed to come together, contribute, and sponsor candidates. You don't allow candidates to use their own resources or to steal, to sponsor themselves. And that is why we keep shouting, our country is not getting better, it's not getting better. Look, I'm not a, I'm not a, I'm not a, I'm not a big voter or endorsing, but I like what people are doing for me. Understand, I like a lot of things people are doing for him. Because this shows that, okay, a lot of people too believe in the fact that they can, they can have somebody. I also like what people are doing for other parties, first thing in the book. A lot of people do that, not only for them to give them money, they own their own, gather themselves and they are doing something. There's a candidate I have, a friend of mine who is running for House of Red in, I think, a party NNPP, in one of the federal constituencies in Lagos. And like what, what he did, he called his force, he called all of us together and said, this is what he wants to do. And people are contributing. Every day there's a WhatsApp group, people are contributing just for him to run that election. There are no voting for him to give them money. No, people are contributing. Which is, who should be the voter, the politically candidate? Go ahead, mobilize justice for him because it is expensive. Now, he's ready for a House of Red seats. And everything that might be nothing less than a one-roader there about pulley units. So he has to put agents, he has to put agents, you know. So people are now willing to contribute for him. Our size is big but people are not bigger than India. India run the election. We're not bigger than China. But anyway, China, he said, we're interested. But India run the election. In Brazil run the election. These are also big countries. In Indonesia run the election. These are also very big, massive, so don't talk about the US, don't run the election. And they also have their own method. But the only problem we have is the fact that we're still the politicians to be the one that will give us money during the election. Rather than we contributing to the person we want, to the candidate that we felt can deliver for us and will give such candidate support to enable us to get good representation. We are getting there. With what's happened, with what's happened during this election, with the obedience movement and with some of the persons that have decided to help other candidates, I think Nigeria's by and large will come up with the positions, like you said, they are smarter. They will always want to let the people know that they have things, they give them, they have gifts and all that. And so that will continue. But of course, we're hearing it over and over, I think their money don't vote for them. It doesn't work. It doesn't work. It's for you to know who you are. And we, we, the elite that comes on radio and TV to keep educating the society to change the narrative so that people will start realizing the fact that it is the other way around, not the way we are going right now. It is the other way around. That will give us a sustainable democracy and a good representation. My last question for you will be on, I just think on what you just said, you made a valid point. I mean, you made really great points. You made one valid point that I also like, which is that we need to keep educating our people. And this is where, even on the run-up, Yangoon and I, and some of our guests, we've always asked this question, where is a national orientation agency? Under the Buhari administration, it's so sad that we, it's like the national orientation agency does not exist, but we have changed. It still exists. It has a direct general. So what, what do you, what is your assessment? I'm, I'm a bargain bias, your comment. What is your assessment for the national orientation agency? And what should it be doing at crucial moments like this? Yeah. Sincerely, sincerely, it has, I've said this question many before as I have very sad about it, very, very sad. I remember in 1984, when the Y, the work as a discipline mantra came down, we had the Y cage and then we had the, the, then it metamorphosed to MAMSA. Yes. When the governor came to power and brought up MAMSA. Yes. Which changed the medicality of Nigerians. In this moment, I was still young, very young 10, I'm not old, but I was very, very young. And when these institutions were, I was a member of the, of the MAMSA Brigade, from Y Brigade to MAMSA Brigade, I was a member. And it gave us nationalism. In fact, whatever I feel today, whatever I feel today about, they love my country. I think that agency gave it to me because I was so practically glued to do the, and they miss the past one. And then at that goes on, you now change to national orientation agency. And on that side, let me say like you said, it's a zero, it's in fact, it's, it's a totally comatose agency. They are nowhere to be, I have engaged some of them in an, in four hours on a program with one of the directors. And when I read back MAMSA and Y2, he said that he started working during that period. And I'm like, so what happened? There's projectile location, you have your, there's every year projectile location. We've never had national agency to organize everything. I think offer, say, look, I will work for you free. I offered to national agency, I said, please, you can give me, I work for you free. Give me platform, give me a message, I'll try them for you, free. You know, these comatose agencies, because the president allowed people to do what they want to do. They are calling them, they allow them to do it. It's supposed to go back to the list of free information. Yeah. And natural orientation. The list of information itself, how have these performed? We have a man like me, like Mohamed Aron, news of information. How has he performed? AT and the, and the, and the, and the, how have they performed? How have they performed? Voice of Nigeria, how has he performed? Today, the airway of the public media has taken over the narratives. They have not, they have not, they have not invade themselves to make the surrounding events. When the airways of these public medias are taken over and changed in narratives. And yet, and the, and the, and the, and the, even now journalists, like like Mohamed, he's just sitting there and wasn't a welcome to give, but he is the two, the information machine of the government is the total failure. And that is why the bad version has so much bad negativity. This type of that they've achieved. We go out to take what is going to achieve. The government itself is what people would have achieved. We have made enemies because of our stand, have a positive thought about the country and about the government. Newer, the people that have been sovereign, that are hitting fast on the government, are not doing, are not giving the government the service by eating what they want to do. How do they want to go empty? How do they want to visit the region and do that? Because it's not attractive, it's because what they're enjoying is trying to make it attractive. Because that is where the government machinery should be coming from, to really change people's mentality, to give people something to vote for. But today, it's every flag by nine media house, online, online media house, all the flag by nine AOPs that's not even understand the things they are doing. They are the ones that are taking the narrative. And the government agencies have gone to the bazaar. Bazaar is sad and unfortunate. I see give them, I'm see offering them my service, fuel of charge to the naturalist agency. If they are trusted, give me the narrative, I will help you. Okay. I've no cost to you. That's patriotism, Mr Wilcox. Thank you so much for offering your services to Nigeria. I hope that they will listen. But don't worry, we will engage you when the time comes so that you do what we need you to do. But you're already doing it anyway by being a part of our program and talking to us. We do hope that we'll have more people like you that will volunteer to say what they need to say to the right people so that the right things get to be done. Thank you so much for being a part of our program today. That was Mr Alex Wilcox talking to us on new strategies that the politicians are devising to do vote buying. And he gave us a very broad explanation or a definition of vote buying, which we have been talking about on this show. But the people that matter, the people who really gave us the word vote buying are saying that it's on election day that you can say that someone has bought votes. Meanwhile, Mr Wilcox is saying that it goes beyond that, saying on election day is just a limitation of what it could be. But we have another thing to discuss today and that is that the governors have no right to challenge Buhari as the president on the Naira redesign. We'll be talking with Barrister Abumere Osare who is a legal practitioner and a notary public. We take a break now and when we return we'll meet with Barrister. Stay with us.