 This panel follows wonderfully really on the last two interventions, the, in many ways, Jim Fallows talking about the ways in which communities across the country are taking care of themselves. They are not waiting for national government to solve their problems. They are looking out for each other and figuring out how to make their communities work. And then Atul Gawande talking about what care, what love really means in terms of letting others pursue their own goals rather than perhaps your goals for them. And now we're going to talk about the care economy. And I will say that in keeping with New America's emphasis on big ideas, I think just calling it the care economy is a big idea and is part of how we should be thinking about our economy. We should be thinking not only about an infrastructure of competition but an infrastructure of care. So I haven't introduced myself or anybody who might not know. I'm Ann-Marie Slaughter. I'm the head of New America. And I'm going to introduce my panel and we're going to have a conversation. So immediately to my left is Mohamed El-Irian, who is a New America board member and that is his primary distinction. In addition, he is the chief economic advisor at Allianz, which is the corporate parent for PIMCO. And Mohamed was the chief executive and co-chief investment officer for a long time. He chairs President Obama's Global Development Fund and is a columnist. You've read him in many different places. I just want to say he's going to explain why, given that bio he's on a panel about the care economy because it might not be immediately apparent. I'll say that when I went to go and talk at PIMCO, I gave a talk on foreign policy and then I talked to a group called PIMCO Parents. And it was very important that it was called PIMCO Parents. It was not called the women's group. It was not called mothers. It was called PIMCO Parents and a third of the people there. And this is a very high pressure industry for men. To his left is Sarita Gupta, who's the co-director of Caring Across Generations. That's a national coalition of some 200 advocacy organizations working together for quality care and support and following a tool, a dignified quality of life for all Americans. She's also the executive director of Jobs with Justice, which means she's really an expert on the economic and social issues affecting working Americans across all industries. To her left is Latifah Lyles, who is a great friend of New America. She's been on a number of our panels this year. She's the director of the Women's Bureau at the U.S. Department of Labor. So she is working to improve standards and opportunities for all women in the workforce. Last year she oversaw an absolutely spectacular summit that the White House put on, a summit on working families that was a summit about the care economy in many ways, even if it wasn't framed exactly that way. And our last down the row is Sheila Lyrio-Marcelot, who is an entrepreneur and a leader who has created Care.com. Now in this presence, in this community, and particularly we emphasize the .com, Colleen Gale is also a board member who's just stepped down as head of care. This is Care.com, and it is a rapidly growing company that is the largest online care destination in the world. It has 13.3 million members in 16 countries. And Sheila will talk again about how she got into this business. So with that, I'm going to start by asking you, and actually I think I'll ask Sheila first and we'll go down this way, to talk about why are you in this business? I just set you up there, what led you to be focusing on Care? I think it is appropriate that just hearing a tool's book on being mortal. I think that I got pregnant in college and it is very personal. And I was an immigrant born and raised in the Philippines, and I came to the United States and had to struggle to find care for our little guy and married a man whose parents were deceased. And so fast forward when we had our second child, we struggled through grad school and our careers, and then when we had our second child, I begged my parents to come from the Philippines to take care of him because we were working at a start-up in his little boy's name, Adam. He's now 15 years old. But as my father was walking up the stairs with him, he fell backwards and had a heart attack. And so at 29 years old, I found myself part of this sandwich generation. And yet I was working in a technology company and found that I was using the yellow pages to look for care. And it didn't make any sense. And I needed care to work. And it was critical and found that millions, billions of families depend on care to just have a livelihood. And there is this codependency between care and jobs. You need a great job to pay for great care. And you want great care so you have peace of mind so you can focus on work. And so that's really been the inspiration as my own personal passion and realizing that this was a true pain point in my own life and using my background in business and in technology to build something to help people. Thank you. Latifah. Thank you. So again, thank you so much for having us here. Growing up, I am in the New York City is where I'm from. I didn't have a very large family. It was just my brother and me. But my grandmother raised six, seven children. Some of my uncles are very close to me in age. We were often by ourselves, you know, I was at three, you know, with the six and eight-year-old. My earliest memories. I don't remember any adults at all. But the very important thing for what I do now and being at the Department of Labor working for standards that improve the lives of workers is that my grandmother was, in addition to raising seven children, she was a direct care home worker herself. And what we're doing at the Department of Labor to ensure basic standards and including basic standards and protections for good wages is so important to me personally understanding that it's the likelihood that my grandmother was making not just under minimum wage as a home care worker raising seven kids by herself and me. But she was probably making a whole lot less than minimum wage for several years. And the thing that's so moving to me is that I always thought of her job as really cool. She would come home and talk about her clients she called them and the people that she would visit. They called themselves nursing home attendants at the time. And I used to tell people very proudly what my grandmother did because I thought it was such a cool and important job. And of course it wasn't until I was older that I realized just how this group of workers have been for so many decades treated as second class workers. So that's my personal pull in this, but certainly it permeates all the work we do which is dignity and value of people who are in this community. You know there's a direct connection between what you just said and what a tool was saying to us about not being able to project forward who we will be and what we will want. Because if we project forward that yes of course we are going to be ill we are going to need health care home attendants to allow us to live in our homes and to have the dignity that we want, we would think that's a really important job. We would think that's a job that matters to every single one of us but we can't project forward. So Sarita that definitely brings us to you in terms of your work. Well for me the personal connection to this issue is a few years ago my father was diagnosed with Alzheimer's and it was a really startling moment for my family to figure out how do we best support him and my mother who's been his sort of primary caregiver for a while through this journey how do we ensure that my father can age with dignity, live with independence be able to stay in our home in the community that they built. My parents immigrated, we immigrated, our family immigrated over 40 years ago so building community was a big part of what they did and so the notion of how do we support him and my mother to remain in community was a big struggle frankly that I had and my family had and actually a lot of what Sheila said and part of the sandwich generation myself I actually like to call us the panini generation because we're so pressed actually I have a five year old daughter I have a five year old daughter and actually this past Christmas helped my parents move from their home of 40 years in Rochester, New York and moved them into my home and we're building literally a multi-generational house to figure out the best ways to support my parents through this journey and frankly to support all of us there's so many of us sandwich generation, panini generation people out there who are struggling alone like we're really struggling with these questions alone and part of what I'm learning through this work is the importance of bringing this out into the public sphere and finding solutions together Thank you Thanks I'm going to call it the panini generation and now I just want to, Muhammad So I'm going to be consistent with what someone told me when I was 16 which was that I'm boring and unimaginative She was my first girlfriend by the way So I got here through a cumulative, personal, professional and research journey that did not stop at the obvious statement that to use our tools phrasing that well-being is about more than economic prosperity It went to the next stage with saying that economic prosperity is actually a function of taking seriously the caring economy which exploded in my mind a lot of trade-offs that I as an economist grew up with you thought there's a trade-off between efficiency and equity, but there isn't You're taught as a CEO that you can't be caring in a meritocracy Well, that's not true And that cumulative journey started because while I was born in New York I spent the first 10 years in Egypt and I was surrounded by a lot of deprivation and I realized that the only reason that I was different is because my father cared enough to invest every penny in my education Why? Because education had been for him the great enabler and the great empowerment Then fast forward to university when I was lucky enough to be taught that learning economics is about learning through four different schools of thought which suddenly you realize there's different ways about thinking about this and you become more interdisciplinary and then as a CEO I learned the hard way I learned through a series of slippages that we were making because we weren't asking the right question from the most amazing person who was leaving the firm and I decided let me meet with them to ask why and when I met I said I'm not trying to make you change your mind I just want to understand why and the answer was because you can either be 100% or zero at PIMCO and I said that's not true someone as capable of you functioning at 65% is worth 100% of many other people that we're going to hire so let's talk about how is it that we make this happen or this wonderful woman that we were interviewing and we were absolutely convinced she was coming to PIMCO and she let us down so I called and I said again I don't want to convince you to come I just want to understand why because we were under the impression she said you know you kept me there for two days of interviews and I was really excited till I realized that there wasn't a single woman who interviewed me only men interviewed me so I called our HR department I said how do we set up interview lists and they said well we first interview for skills, expertise then we look at fit and it was very scientific and I said do we ever ask the question what signals are we giving do we ever care about what the other person is receiving in terms of signals so for me it's been sort of a cumulative journey to realizing that if you want to succeed in a society economically in a meritocracy, in a company, in a household you've got to take a much more holistic approach otherwise you will fall short and in your own life so in my own life I'm lucky enough to have been able to make choices that came late in life and the choice I made which made much more noise than it should but that tells me something is that the time had come for me to spend more time with my daughter and I'm lucky enough to be able to do it it's a privilege to be able to do it so every day I count my lucky stars and I'm able to do that but what has struck me is the reaction to that don't I know it so we've been talking about sort of the value of care and how each of you has navigated that in your own lives well I want to talk about now how do we get people to be thinking about the care economy how do we, this is a framing, we can frame it any way we want I've been thinking about this now for three years working on a book and thinking about how do we get people to acknowledge that care is as important a part of our lives as competition indeed if you don't have a foundation of care it's very hard for you to compete effectively either because no one's invested in you or no one's taking care of your loved ones and Sheila I'm going to ask you to lead off here again you're essentially creating a business that assumes there is a huge market for care and that there's a market that is not just the way the current market for care which is very low paid and very low valued so it's low paid in terms of money and in terms of prestige how do we make that shift and where do you see your own industry evolving? it's a very fragmented industry and in fact when I first started it a lot of people were questioning whether we could even scale it because of low income wages where can you find the profit around these things what I've been actually doing is doing a lot of advocacy as a social entrepreneur so a few things that I put out there I just did a speech at a private equity women's summit as an example and I tend to be very picky about those things because I'm trying to choose of course wisely being a CEO and at the same time advocating so a few things I emphasize this is a $243 billion industry childcare and senior care a majority of that and it is as big as the legal industry and we are a litigious society as big as medical devices as big as gambling a lot of investment goes into those industries I also emphasize that now based on research and we've worked with different nonprofits is that we've found that the number one budgetary item for families is actually care and that's only measuring childcare which is factored in the sandwich generation or the panini generation that is caught up in all of that with senior care and that's $18,000 that's higher than mortgage and rent and even higher than college education and what impacts companies it's actually overall productivity but what drives that it's absenteeism and what drives absenteeism it's when care doesn't work at home so these facts and getting it out there advocating at all channels especially in the business community which we're doing in partnership with New America is to raise that awareness so that CEOs are very aware and not waiting for enlightenment to happen is for them to actually see that the data is there and to realize that this is an economic imperative when you close your eyes what do you think when you think of care you think of your kids you think of your loved ones it's the soft side of care but this is an economic imperative it drives as Mohammed pointed out economic growth why female participation in the workplace drives jobs, keeps them in jobs but you can't actually do that unless you have a care infrastructure and I love what Anne Marie says it's like we invest in roads and bridges but we don't invest in care care drives the economy and so it's raising that awareness stating in statistics, stating in real data and making an influence and making an impact so that people understand every day that if you're in the business or in the government in any institution that you can influence how you think about care you know the cost of childcare for two kids exceeds the cost of rent in all 50 states just an astounding amount and you'll pay for it you have to pay for it if you can't pay for it you can't work Lativa sure so on the economic side I think it's really important for people to realize that this is the norm for most families 40 million families care for an elderly relative 30 million have young children I think that while there's this idea that care happens at certain parts of your life and then it's over is really you know not the reality number one number two looking especially at the wage the wages issue we know that a quarter of a million dollars is lost for an individual because of unpaid care including wages and social security over a lifetime yeah a quarter of a million over a lifetime and this is not just for women this is for all people 9 million adults over 50 care for an older relative and I think what we are really grappling with and I'm glad you brought up the participation in the labor force is that individuals suffer from an economic perspective we're not contributing to the economy but if for example prime age women were participating in the labor force at the same rate as women in Canada in Germany let's say that would be 500 billion dollars in our economy that we don't currently have 3.5% of GDP some of the estimates show in terms of what we hoped what we could gain in this country I believe very very strongly that you know this is something that a lot of the folks in the advocacy space in this area talk about is that we're talking really in some ways to from a labor perspective about a new standard what does it mean to have supports and policies in place that workers can benefit from because of the reality of today and the reality of their lives one of the very very key components of the work we're doing with Secretary Perez and the White House is what we can do across the country to motivate and stimulate states to take advantage of this momentum where they can study implement test models because we know so many states are doing this already we're trying to do our best to support this because we know it's not going to happen at the federal level anytime soon what do we need to do at least at the local level to make sure that workers are protected and we're not just talking about job protected leave that's unpaid we're talking about paid sick days we're talking about paid family and medical leave and we were at an event with the the president last week raising up champions who across the country have been working on both paid family leave, sick days and all of these issues around the country and he said which is you know we all know this in this room but when you hear it it's so remarkable that women don't even have most women don't even have a guaranteed by law a guaranteed one guaranteed paid day for them to have their child so we talk a lot about this idea that you want to stay home and take care of your child and you know you just but really that time that you're even in the hospital to give birth is not covered you know this is really for us a time for us as a nation to really get together to figure out how we can really catch up with the global economy on this so that countries all over the world who are putting the economics of their workers first and bringing together the business community and the worker community have already got this right and the United States is really just catching up and we're doing what we can to help move the ball forward it's just astounding I mean people have heard this that we and Papua and New Guinea and I think Swaziland and Lesotho are the only countries in the world that don't have paid maternity leave there are lots of countries that don't have paid paternity leave but every other country in the world assumes that a woman at least needs some time to have a child you know as you were talking Sheila and I were exchanging glances because when you talk about new standards New America is partnering with Care.com to create a care index where we're going to rate states according to their care infrastructure the state of their care infrastructure because their countless indexes on gender that's great but there's nothing that actually measures care which of course has a huge impact on women's ability to advance but as you said it's not just women it's men so we definitely want to talk so Serita you know you work Caring Across Generations you work with Ai-jen Poo and her book The Age of Dignity which is another great read of that of being mortal she writes about the elder boom which of course is right I was born in 1958 that's the height of the baby boom because the people who had been having kids in 1945 were still having kids and people like my parents were starting to have kids so you know we are 10,000 of us are retiring every day and we've got this enormous elder boom so how do you look at the care economy? Well speaking of the elder boom I always have to throw this little statistic out that every 8 seconds someone in America is turning 65 so this year alone 4 million people will turn 65 reach retirement age and thankfully you know people are living much longer lives which is great but the demographics are really important to keep in mind as we talk about a care economy by the year 2030 20% of our population will be over the age of 65 so already there is a huge demand for long term supports and services whether it's in the form of home care or institutional care but what we also know is that people want to be able to age in their homes, in their place ARP just did a study 90% of aging adults prefer to live in their homes age in their homes so we can't actually afford to not have a plan to meet the new realities of an aging population in this country so we've talked a little bit about the Pannini generation and what families and how families are struggling through this we're also really clear that the future of care needs to embrace and develop and support a much stronger home care workforce because for families like myself we need that support in order to continue to work full time and to ensure that people like my father can in fact age with dignity, with independence and live at home so it is really critical and I have to really appreciate so much for the work that Latifa and the Department of Labor and the White House is doing on raising standards because the reality is these home care jobs are they pay unfathomably low wages on average about a little over nine dollars an hour and we only have two million home care workers in our economy today yet we know the needs are going to grow I mean by 2040 nearly 30 million Americans will need some form of direct care to meet their daily basic needs so this is could be a crisis but we like to think of caring across generations this is a huge opportunity for us to get in front of this and really begin to think about how to strengthen the workforce how we create good jobs make sure they're good quality jobs that families can rely on and make sure that we're creating as many care giving options to families that we can and we like to think about it as sort of the care grid like the infrastructure right so we talk about it as the care grid just like we've built infrastructures as a nation in the past bringing water and electricity into every American home and hopefully somebody will be able to do that with the internet our vision is we need a care grid in our economy we need to be able to bring as many care giving options as possible into every home in America and that's what it's going to take to really embrace and build out this care economy and I'm really confident we can get there by building a caring majority of us that are helping to provide creative solutions innovations and thoughts on how we ensure that every person gets the kind of care that they need and we build a strong workforce to support that the families in need but also themselves because one of the worst stories of our care economy today is how many care workers who care for our loved ones support themselves or their own families and that doesn't have to be the way it is so we're excited about building out a care grid so a couple of responses on that and the care grid is exactly what we're talking about when we talk about a care index as part of what you have to define is what goes into that so provisions for childcare and elder care are obvious but there's more than that there's early education there's therapy of various kinds there's mental health care if we think about all the ways in which we need to actually support loved ones and defining that and then measuring it is an important piece two other things you said I thought were interesting there is a big real estate angle here Jim Fallows was talking about real estate and importance of real estate one of the answers has to be more multi-generational living we are single family livers and I'm very close to my own family and I'm always shocked that the only time we have multi-generational living is holidays which is not exactly the norm there's a lot of pressure but my parents assume growing up which was that you had different family members around is not something that we do and the last thing just to tie what you said about what it takes to be a good home health care worker again goes back to what Atul Gawande was talking about there's a wonderful place in his book where he quotes the woman who was founded the assisted living movement and he says he points out that you know taking care of older people is a lot like taking care of toddlers in the sense that you have to let them do what they still can do they want autonomy it is easier for you to do it I mean just as the mother of a young child it's much easier for you to just get it done that person when it's a young child they're not learning but when it's an older person you're depriving them of the very dignity and autonomy they need and that's a skilled job that takes really understanding what you do for them and what you don't do for them and what risks you allow them to take so for us to make it a good caring relationship it's not a matter of just lifting people in and out of bed so Mohammed I wanted to ask you to maybe look at this from more the insurance perspective the alliance perspective and part of this I wanted you to reflect on how other countries think about this but also how you see it more from a business perspective I mean from a business perspective the most obvious thing and it's from an economic perspective and we've heard it on this panel is that the business case and the economic case for the care economy is very strong and yet it's not translated into actions so there's a failure there there's a market failure if you like and the market failure is that the notional supply and the notional demand of something that makes households companies and economies better off is not translated into effective demand and effective supply that's the market failure part of it is because we don't ask the right questions I was very struck by when I worked you broke someone in and you say what does it take does it take a better trading system does it take a better computer we frame the questions and our aha moment as a collective came when we decided after the financial crisis that the world was going to look different we phrase it at that point as the new normal and therefore our people had to think differently so we brought in a professor first from the London Business School who said your biggest trap is what's called active inertia that you feel that you have to do something different but you continue doing the same thing and there's many many companies that do that starts my life so how do you overcome active inertia by exposing people to the fact that we all have blind spot and unconscious biases and there's nothing wrong with that that's how we are wired professor from Harvard she's great and we brought the whole firm in a big ballroom and 90% of the people that didn't want to be there right and she was great because she took us through example after example that proved to the people sitting in the room beyond any doubt that they were subject to unconscious bias and blind spots and then there was a science of it and what we can do about it my own experience is I was sitting with the financial engineers who had self-selected right at the back of the room on the side and their view was this soft stuff that's true for the marketers the marketers need this but we are financial engineers we don't need this and you could see the skepticism we brought one of these old overhead overhead projectors she had to explain to the room what an overhead projector was because half the room hadn't seen one and then she put a slide which had two different figures and said how many of you believe that these figures are the same nobody put their hands up how many of you believe that different everybody put their hand up then she took a second slide it fit exactly on the first one took it over and it fit exactly on the second one and there was an aha and then she said if anybody wants to try this and you don't believe what you just saw coming up of course my table came running up and then she explained the science why is it that as we develop as our brains develop we start having these blind spots and one of the blind spots is these wrong trade-offs that we think a care economy is inconsistent with a market-based economy actually it's not, it supports a market-based economy and I think to end on a positive note the most amazing thing today is that there are two major advances that make this a lot easier technology and behavioral science and any company who wants to succeed has got the hard wire inside from both these things and if you do that it becomes much easier because you allow structure to do the heavy lifting the analytics become much easier and once the analytics become much easier the buying becomes much easier and once the buying becomes much easier and then hopefully you get out of this active inertia so I want to ask you a question if you had asked me what would have made the difference let's say I'm working for PIMCO and I've got two kids and I just can't do it PIMCO people travel a lot if you had asked me I'd have said well if you really want to make a difference you will pay for my childcare person to travel with me and my child to go to whatever conference if I had said that there are plenty of conversations where women say yeah this is what would really make a difference but there's no way they're going to pay for that what would you have said? so first of all it's stunning to us that when you ask that question no one says it when you do a blind survey childcare comes as the number one issue and the reason why people don't want to say it is they're afraid I had another experience which is that I met with pregnant women and they told me that someone sent me an early copy and said read this and there was a story about her being pregnant so I brought women who are pregnant and women who had just had babies and I said what can we do to make your life better and make you a lot more productive what I got was 10% of what they really wanted to tell me 10% of what they really wanted to tell me right and I had to convince them that this is a safe zone to have this discussion so I tell you one of the great things we did is actually introduce childcare we didn't have childcare before and that was transformational because people stopped worrying and absenteeism came down so just asking the question but creating the safe zone and making people understand that this is actually a merit-based approach it's consistent with you being a better business a better household and a better economy and society so we've got only 10 minutes I'm going to ask you if you could wave a wand question what do we need to help people make that safe zone and Mohammed I'm going to ask you men in helping make it a safe zone because as you said the reason somebody like me is not going to ask that question is I'm absolutely afraid that if I say what I really need you're going to say she's not committed to her career or that's too expensive or whatever so what do we do and how do we do more broadly what do we do through regulation what do we do through business Sheila said she was talking to a women's equity firm why aren't the proliferation of private equity firms and other investment firms not flocking to invest in this economy and how do we change that because it's absolutely crazy given the business case that this isn't seen as a huge investment opportunity but it's not so I'm going to now go back down and let Sheila in so I'll start with you again so I think first just awareness is a big issue and it's not easy because you're overcoming decades of conventional wisdom that actually is not very wise so to address awareness is a key element men are very important because if you take your initial conditions men still control a lot of the decision making we noticed I mean you don't know how unusual it is for me to sit and be the only man normally now I feel for when I sit on panels there's only one woman so the awareness of men is really important and that comes through again keep on reinforcing this is about the business case this is about the economic case and as I say it's much easier these days because the evidence is really compelling and then there's a ton of stuff we can do at the macro level gender pay we have laws and yet people behave in a way that actually is inconsistent with the law there's lots of stuff we can do in terms of how we think about quote inclusive capitalism how we think about yesterday's panel inclusive finance it's actually making people more productive it's enabling and empowering people so there's lots of stuff to be done at the policy side that again explode this myth that there is a trade-off actually the trade-off is not there and if people who have researched that taking inequality seriously and it's not just an inequality of income and wealth it is the fact that today's inequality has become so extreme that it speaks to an inequality of opportunity and the minute you start talking about inequality of opportunity you start talking about lost generations you start talking about a tremendous loss in potential output so there's actually a whole menu of things that are not as politically controversial as you may think to begin with I'd like to offer when I think about the care economy and what it's going to take I actually think we have to spark conversations across generations it's true men and women need to talk but we also actually have to understand that this issue is one that is really important for all generations of our nation right now and so much of the work that through caring across generations we've been trying to do is to really spark meaningful conversations about the issue of care but part of that is we have to have a culture shift in our country I mean frankly most people are profoundly afraid of aging and talking about death right Athul talked about earlier and others we also know that because these issues are so personal again people hold it personally and don't talk about it feel comfortable telling their care story and we know if I'm sure if we went around this room everybody would have some sort of a care story to tell and so part of what we feel like we have to do in terms of the culture shifts is help value caregiving caregivers care in our economy in our society as a whole the two we actually need to embrace the power of multi-generational relationships as part of the solutions for how we deal with the issues of care and then thirdly that we really need to lift up both the joys and the complexities of aging because I think sometimes we can go right into the doom and gloom like some people talk about the elder boom as the Silver Tsunami but there's such beautiful joy in aging and how we lift those up together and spark a really different kind of conversation that can really spark our imaginations to be as innovative and creative around the solutions that we need and we think by doing that I think that by doing that we can in fact create a different climate for the kinds of practices that need to happen in the workplace to begin to think about the policy interventions that we can make like what would it mean for us to get in front of this issue of care jobs and actually name how many we need and what those kinds of jobs can be and the trainings and supports that are needed to also be more thoughtful about what is the care grid infrastructure we can and should be building but it's really hard in the political climate we are in today to even begin that conversation unless we really spark a very different kind of conversation where we're really reaching the hearts and minds of people this is an issue that matters to every single one of us and so soon as we can spark you know really reach the hearts and minds of people I really believe as a nation we can stand up and make sure that every person has the opportunity to live their highest potential through every stage of life and that's really what I think it's going to take thank you one thing I will point out there in terms of care stories and making care central I don't think it's accidental that not a single one of you is from the dominant culture in the United States and I really mean that right that we are going to become plurality Hispanic we are you know you're all from different cultures that actually value family and multi-generational care far more than a traditional whitewask culture so just a point Latifah so building a little bit on the culture piece there are two things one is that the most compelling game changer conversation changers that I've been a part of is where the business community or CEOs acknowledge the economic you know non-issues that there are but then actually say we're doing this because it's the right thing to do and you know I've been in several rooms and there's one or two CEOs who will you know decide not to lead with the economic case but rather say you know this is our moral fiber as contributors to the economy and this is why it's important to my company and I think that that does put a completely different light on these advocacy discussions secondly I believe very strongly that you know thinking of these as you know they're individual issues obviously but really they're structural these are really truly at the core structural issues and I think that that's what we're trying to move toward to understand that part of the reasons people don't talk about what they really need is because this is a problem I have to fix individually this is not an expectation that I have of my employer this is not an expectation I have of of the economy so that's another conversation changer and then the last thing on the conversation and culture piece is I think for elder care versus childcare in some ways you know I have so many stories of people who are dealing with care for their parents or aging relatives and the structure and support networks the time that they don't have because they have so much support for it really does go into this sort of vacuum of advocacy because there's so many emotional things that are tied into what you're doing and your parents are not children really so they are very very very strong minded themselves and I know that seeing my mom go through this that there's at certain points sort of like a throw in the towel both from a perspective of you're advocating with your parent I think that people who are taking care of elder relatives don't have the kinds of networks perhaps that some of us do for our children and I think that that creating that network of support is really going to be critical for advocacy because we want the thing to happen sometimes we don't have a lot of choices time there's financial implications there's health I mean there's it's really not as simple as I'm going to go home and sort of do some internet research and look at some listservs and it's really very complex and these are really critical decisions that I think are often made in really dire times when people don't have a lot of support and then on the other piece of it obviously you know we talked about this too but you know it's really time that we think about our workers as people and people with families there are very few people that don't have to care for families that don't have children women 75% of women are going to have a child working there's some realities of today that I think we need to keep talking about the reality of women working into the third or third trimester of their of their of their pregnancies and some things that have changed over the past several decades some that have not but I think that there are some stark realities that if we take them off of the individual and think more about who's in our who's in the cubes where we are where we are on the shop on floor then perhaps we can close this gap of where the answers are there but we're still trailing behind and obviously how we compensate workers for their time is really critical thank you Sheila you get the last word so I think it is a combination of public-private partnerships investing in infrastructure thinking about generations and engaging everybody in the conversation Henry you asked sort of this point in question how do we convince white males many that I talked to in the investment community that this is an industry worth investing in because it's necessary not only for moral reasons societal reasons because we've got a crisis coming even though we can see the joy of aging it's real is that there's an economic reason so here's four things and it's an acronym it's simple it's actually care I'd say to them see you've got to invest and train caregivers so Rita pointed out there will be a shortage of supply and if you don't invest in them we're going to run into a problem why women are actually opting out of marriage and they're opting out of having children so soon you're going to have single men and who's going to take care of their parents what's the C? the C trained caregivers C for caregiving trained sorry trained caregivers we must train caregivers there's a shortage of supply A is accountability in this country and we haven't even gotten into elder care nail salons are audited more than day care and we haven't even gotten to the regulation of what needs can happen in home care agencies and elder care and day care and childcare is further along than even senior care our respect and I really support NDWA IGIN caring for across generations we have to respect the caregivers if we're going to track caregivers and professionalize them we have to pay them above minimum wage we have to give them vacations we have to give them time off because how are we going to attract people to care and allow our parents to age with dignity and make sure that our kids because their brains developing as babies we need them just as much as we think about educators we have to respect caregivers and think about nannies as driving the economy and babysitters driving the economy because they allow us to do what we do in this room care for our loved ones and E for excellence which Anne Marie and I really focus on around how do we create transparency and measurement of care by cost quality availability create an index make it a public good available to all to put pressure on so that we can really understand the quality and standards that's necessary to drive the economy and that's the care economy thank you so let me just say one last word which is in the book that I've been working on for the last three years that will now come out September 29th I can't say that often enough my essential argument in two sentences is that the great stall in the women's movement meaning that we have not really advanced in terms of numbers of women at the top for 20 years we've been focusing on that issue as a problem of discrimination or a problem of lack of assertiveness or a problem of something to do with women I think the problem is the devaluing of care that we liberated women to be their fathers and along the way we completely devalued the work our mothers did which was sort of essential because that's where the power was but what happened was that we devalued care in terms of individual women who take time out to take care of their families who are devalued in terms of the workers who are caregivers in terms of the entire understanding of the vital foundation that care provides for competition and we'll leave it there. Thank you.