 And welcome to Think Tech Hawaii's special show tonight on Celebrating Black History Month. Today is the last day of Black History Month here across the country and even here in Hawaii and in other parts of the country. And we had an extra day this year, so we probably had a lot more things to discuss and talk about. And I'd like to introduce our panelist today, Professor Randall, who has been with us many times and has shared her perspectives on a number of issues. She's a retired professor of law and also the author and the editor for a number of publications addressing the issues with regard to race and discrimination and is a recognized scholar and expert in this area. T.K. Brown Taylor is also with us this time. She's kind of new to us and it's kind of fun to have her here. She is the owner and director of Brownstone Mediation in Atlanta and works in human resources with families addressing issues and mediation in that area. And of course, I'm Sandra Sims. I'm a retired judge here in Honolulu and let's get going. So again, we talked about this being the last day of the Celebrating Black History. Black History began, of course, in the 1920s with Dr. Carter Woodson, who began the need to recognize at that time it's called Negro History Month. But the idea being that the history of what African-Americans have done in this country had not been really told. It was his part in addressing that and bringing to our attention as Black people and as well as people in the rest of the world, what we were doing and what we were about. Of course, that history has expanded exponentially since that time. And so we have a lot more programs and a lot more information, a lot more literature, a lot more scholars who have written and talked about what it means to be an African-American in this country. I recall a book that Marion Wright Edelman wrote a few years ago. Actually, it was many years ago called The Measure of Our Success. And she, of course, was the founder, co-founder of the Children's Defense Fund, among other accomplishments. And in that book, she began, I used to buy this book when my kids were young and I give them to everyone who graduated from high school. The idea was this was a lessons for life that she had coined for her own sons. And the thing she mentioned in the beginning of that book was that being Black in America was utterly exhausting. She started off, it's utterly exhausting to be Black in America. So celebrating Black History Month, let's start with that perspective. And I'm going to throw it to you, Professor. So, you know, I've been celebrating Black History Month both for the month and for year round for decades. I'm in my 70s, late 70s. And so this whole issue of celebrating Black... I've seen the movement from Black History Week, Negro History Week. It was weak. I forgot about that. It was Negro History Week. And then it moved two months. And during the 60s and 70s, when I was a teenager and a young adult, it really expanded to what we now know as Black History Month because of the Black Power Movement, the Black Empowerment Movement. And then Ford recognized it in 1976. So the whole thing around Black History Month has been an evolution. And there's a lot of attention, but it's also very commercialized, very capitalistic in nature, because that's what capitalists do. If there's money to be made... We'll find a way. There's people who have a way to make money without increasing wages. So... Exactly. Exactly. That's hard. So that's kind of my view of Black History Month now. As far as what I didn't do much of anything different, my sons, who I lived with, took my grandsons to one parade related to Black History Month. But we didn't actually do very much different. But then we read a lot of books. Every Sunday, we're in the middle of... We're not reading a Black book right now, but we're reading the people's history of the United States with my 13-year-old. Oh, how cool is that? I love that. Oh, that's awesome. Here it is. And so we were just into slavery and just into stuff. So on a personal level, I don't feel the need to do any particular sort of celebration because it's so integrated into everything I do. But it is necessary. Oh, absolutely. I'm not one of the people who think that we should get Black History Month. I just think we've got to find a way to expand it and decommercialize it. Yeah. Good point. Maybe an offer. We can figure something out. TK, what are your thoughts? I liken a few things that Professor Randall has already mentioned, certainly with the capitalism, everything these days. Valentine's Day, I fuss and fight about Valentine's Day because I'm one of those husband and I. We celebrate love the entire year. So when I tell someone I didn't get anything for Valentine's Day, they look like I'm on the brink for divorce. You get on the next day to be on sale. Or the next day, right? So I'm not particularly upset about the capitalism because I know to her point, everything that can do will be capitalized to be able to make a dollar. But for me, Black fatigue is real. You mentioned wanting to start there. It is. I happen to be in the HR space. Oh, I'm sure. I manage it a little differently. I have a little more compassion to the question that you pose in that, whether being exhausting. I absolutely think it's necessary. I am one of those people to say that I celebrate Black history every day. It's just not. Because you're here. Exactly. It's not limited. For me, it's not even. I have, as one person pointed out today, posting his picture, he said, I am Black history. Like, good point. Good point. Exactly. And that's my point. Exactly. I am Black history. And so for me, it's very necessary. There's so much opportunity. She mentioned doing anything differently. I personally will, every year this month, purchase 10 books by Black authors of. That's a good idea. Excellent. That's a great idea. That's a great idea. Who are colleagues, friends, somewhere in my network. If I don't personally know them, usually I personally know them because there's so many people, so many that are ranked books now. Yeah, yeah. Or that they know someone that I know. And I was just sharing, just yesterday, I was supposed to meet with a colleague in Missouri. And she and I both send each other emails probably on top of each other saying, hey, can we take a rain check? And at the end of her signature line, she had her new book. And I said, oh my gosh, I need to add you to my book because I have only to tomorrow, February 29th. I got an extra day and I'm only at book six. So I need four more books. So to your point, that's something that I do absolutely every year to support those who are Black authors. But we should be doing things every day. Yeah, excellent. And we are doing things. Yeah, we are. Exactly. You are doing, you're being here, you're doing that. And I think. The fatigue, the fatigue. I often, you know, my book, Dying While Black, is really about the impact that being Black in America has on Black health and how it is killing us at a high rate. Everything, we're dying from it. And it's not just from institutional systemic racism, which is a problem. It's also from the cumulative impact of just having to deal with every white person walking up to you and asking you some question that's about being Black and you're so tired, but you got to kind of hold it in. You got to be polite. You kind of have to answer the question in a way that doesn't make you seem like you're angry and you got to just stuff it down, especially if it's a new place of employment. Yeah, I was going to say, TK, you probably encountered that. That's kind of on a regular, well, that's what you deal with. Mostly, I'm sure. I'm sure that comes up. Absolutely. Yeah. Even for myself personally, I had a conversation just this past week. It's been a week. Probably a little over a week, where I am being considered for a role in the person who is hiring is the senior leader of this organization who I was recommended by a current supervisor. I'm trying not to. Those that don't mean that watch this. You find it so well that they can identify you. Just tell what happened. Then we don't have to get it. Yeah, I really don't mind. But just having to explain, he came to the conversation as if I was looking for an opportunity, meaning to work for him. And although I don't mind it, would love it, and he is a beautiful person. That's what I call Black people. And however, how he got my name was from a wonderful person. And the way I was talking as if. I presume the wonderful person means. Caucasian. That's right. OK. She just had to answer. Yes. But how it was positioned. I want to be clear. Well, no, you're fine. No, you're absolutely right. But how he positioned it is as if I was downplaying who my credentials, my qualifications, my experience, my work ethic, and it was none of that. It was me being operating in reality is that the opportunity, the playing field, isn't level. So the same considerations. The considerations. Absolutely. And he being a Black leader, senior leader, you can't always assume male. You can't always assume their experience is the same. And so that was my failure. I think that's. Yeah. I get to that conversation or entertain that conversation with him as if his experience was very similar, same as mine. And of course, he and he gave really great feedback. He gave me some and I accepted it, received it. But looking back on that conversation, and certainly I want to follow up with him. The opportunity and experience is not the same. And that's just the fact. Yeah. That's one of the things that I think that's important too when we're talking about dealing with Black history months or dealing with all those kinds of issues. People do have this tendency, even among ourselves, to think that we all have the same kind of experience. And certainly it's varied. I know here in Hawaii, Blacks comprise less than 3% of the population anyway. So you see our role as more educating and providing information that people really don't have and understand about Black folks and more and anything else. I had the opportunity, and I've been working on this for quite a while, with the museum. We have an African-American film festival that we do in February. And I've been on that committee now for 13 years, because that's except for during the pandemic when we didn't have that. And one of the films, and this goes back to what you were talking about, Professor Randall, was how we began celebrating Black history months was a film we showed was the Five Diamonds. And it has to do with the 1969 student movement that took over the city college in New York, which began what you were talking about, Professor, that whole movement of changing in the 60s. I'm like, you, I'm old enough to remember when this happened. And the college was taken over. And we began, that's when the whole process of the evolution of Black education more scholars doing more writing began kind of there. Before that, we just had this little history for excerpts and stuff. And so it chronicle that whole movement and how that began Black studies. We didn't have Black studies before then, not particularly. And then that sort of, as you say, the notion of having what we do come out and be known to everyone. All of a sudden, there's this whole body of information that's in scholars perspectives and exposing, quite honestly, what our history, the history of this country really, really, really was. That got us to maybe, here, there was a, at one point they were talking about celebrating the 50th anniversary of that uprising. It led to a lot. I mean, it was quite a powerful film you have a chance to take a look at it. But that's kind of helped us to get to this place where there are all these different perspectives, even among Black folks with regard to where they are, what they think, what they choose, and what is important, what is not important. And then you run up against the backlash from folks saying, what are you talking about? Why are you sharing those things? Which gets to the exhaustion. Well, the backlash, yeah, I think you're right. And the backlash is, well, it's always been around. I mean, it's vocal now, much more vocal. It's more vocal, more visible. It's different in attitude, but not into time. I mean, there's more of it, but there's always been backlash too. The anti-Blackness of America has always been present and people have always acted upon it. None of, I was gonna say none Black people, but that would be a misstatement because there are anti-Black Black people. Yeah, that's kind of getting to TK's point. Well, you got all perspectives here, you know? So part of the perspective that has to be recognized is that there are people from all different backgrounds who don't really want to learn more or who don't, for different reasons, I grant you that. And I recognize that some of the anti-Blackness from Black people come from not wanting to minimize the pain by not having to deal with white people approaching them about shit. I'm sorry. Don't believe that, maybe, I don't know. And so that's where, I recognize where the anti-Blackness from Black people come and it's a different source, which means we have to do different things to address it that we can't just say it's anti-Blackness. But the anti-Blackness, and that's the same thing, I think we have to look among different racial groups as to, anti-Blackness for non-whites is often born out of wanting to be integrated into the white society. And the certificate for being integrated is anti-Blackness, whether they know it by which or not. And so- This is an interesting question. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's been from the beginning of American history when in 1792, the Congress passed a law on George Washington signed it saying that citizenship was limited to free white people. So from the very beginning- Free white men. Free white men. Exactly. Except the law said people. It's just that they didn't- Yeah, but women weren't people. And enslaved weren't people. You didn't have to redefine it. Because they knew- We just talked about that with my grandmother, right? They knew that people only meant- Yeah, and so the price of admission to the United States of America has always been anti-Blackness. And that has gone through, and whether it's written into the law, it's been written into the culture. And yeah, I give you this. Many people reject it. Many, many non-Black people reject the anti-Blackness. No, that's true. But many, most people of every group accept it. Because it is the price of admission into American society. And it, I think anti-Black Black people- I'm scared. Black people were anti-Black. I'm scared. Are hoping that if they are anti-Black, people will not see that they're Black. That they will have the price of admission into American society. Look, I'm just like you. I think we saw that recently at that, what is it, that CPAC thing where that person was talking about his presidential campaign, and how that people would vote for him because they like his shoes or something. Oh, yes, I know what you're talking about. I'm gonna leave it there. That's not why we're here nonetheless. But Black History Month, the backlash, what are we doing? The backlash to anti-Black to Black History Month, if it's born in anti-Blackness, for whatever group is going against it, they may not understand that's where it's born. Because you don't have to understand the group. Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. T.K. has her brain twerking there, I'm seeing it. Well, you all said a lot, and every time you say something, the first thing I was going to share to the anti-Blackness in those that are Black and then those that are White that Professor Rhonda was sharing. On the White side, it's now cool and comfortable to be an ally. And so that has changed the landscape of where we are where from those that are none of non-African descent or who are Black, the ally is becoming a very cool and very acceptable space to be in and operate in. So that was my first comment. And the second piece is I would even offer that here and today, and I'm thinking more of the younger generation, I'm an exer, not a millennial, but I'm right there at the brink of right there before the ex, that it's not so much of wanting to be anti-Black because if I think you sat down and really talk with those, is that, yes, they're comfortable and okay with and proud to be Black, but due to your point, Professor Randall, see the privilege of associating with or even having to cold switch, look a certain way, behave a certain way, show up a certain way. And so I often kind of equate it to that whole village piece. I blame my grandmother, my mother's generation in how we even operate families. And I'm a woman of faith, so I'm gonna use that example is the reason why there's so many young people that are not enough in the church house is because my mother generation didn't believe that that's where they needed to be to carry that faith and have something that they believed in higher ground, that they believed in higher than the issues that they fight face in what I like to call life, just be life. And so I also believe that the same way with our history and Black history and being who we are proud to be is that we will say that go out and be with who you wanna be with, do whatever you want to do. So to me, it's not so much around anti-Blackness. If you will, it's more about I wanna do what I wanna do, when I wanna do it, how I wanna do it. But does that also like a reflection of your generation, the exes or millennials or whichever you wanna be called, having quite honestly, particularly for those who are Black, having now the privilege to do that. Absolutely, so that's my point exactly. But the privilege to make those kinds of choices and thoughts and decisions. And I don't know that it's necessarily in disregard of the history so much as it is, the fact that we know more and they've learned more. And we, Professor Randall, I guess that's you and my art generation, I've got a couple of these, whatever you call it yourselves, have given them that privilege. I don't wanna call them kids with the young adults, but they don't take stuff. They are more assertive. They will not be, they don't stand back or stand down. And society has to deal with that. Our society is gonna have to deal with that group because you guys are out there. I don't know whether it's faith-based or not faith-based but there is that assertion that this group has. And I've seen them here, I've seen them in other places. And it's actually kind of fun to watch. I don't know. I would question whether or not, I don't know, I have no idea. My kids are in their fifties, so I have no idea. They're in their forties and so yeah, they're... I don't know, millennials are... I'm not sure what it is, so what's the code for it? Whatever it is, my grandkids are preteens. So I have to question, when I... I don't know that I see that group any different from me when I was a teenager. I wanted to do what I want, when I was where I was, and I didn't want my parents telling me nothing about what their generation did. Well, yeah, that's true. Blackness was born in part out of a rejection of our parents' value system. Well, the 1969 city college movement that movement was born of that. Yeah. And I'm talking more so about who we are or who they are personally, like who they identify, how they want to identify, not necessarily a behavior like actions. Oh, you know, because in my mind, the generation, my brother is 10 years, I'm in my forties, my mid forties, I don't look it, but I am. My brother is 10 years younger than me. Completely. Even the cousins, and as you all imagine, I showed you about my parents and how big my family is, how many cousins I have. So the point is that I don't think it's any different than how we wanted to be somewhat, or you all back then wanted to be somewhat rebellious and it's kind of very similar to a degree. I think I guess the point that I was trying to drive home is that I don't think that our, we, especially not me, because I was just, but I'm a little different, those that are in my age range or anti-black, but to your point is that we have more information and we know, yes, it's available to us, but we don't know it. And so because we don't know it, we cannot connect to it, we cannot relate to it. And to that point, we don't want to hear it. It's not just because... That's another conversation. That's a generational conversation that we need to really have. Well, I just think, the way our needs is that, the better off we came, the better, meaning we live in the nice big houses, five, six bedrooms, five cars out in the yard, six bigger jobs, I'm just being... No, no, no, you're right. You know, it's... Except the great majority of us are not living that life. We're just talking about her generation. I think there's a lot of that. The great majority of her generation is not living that life. That's the life they want. So that's what I'm getting ready to say, but they aspire. So even if they don't have... And their anti-blackness is born out of the idea that if they in fact identify too closely with black people, they won't be able to get the things they aspire for. That's... It's not... Okay, that's another... Okay, we got to go, but that's a discussion. We got to have that discussion. I got to tell chef, that's a whole new show. Yeah, it sure is. Because no, to your point of liking it, these young people don't tell them they can't do it because they're going to try to go out and prove be wrong. They... And that's the part... Yeah, and when they get their ass whipped over the next... We went out, your grandparents went out, and we got our ass whipped by white people by this capitalist system. And in 40 to 50 years, these young people will be where we are. Okay. Well, on that note, I'm going to have to close this out. This is so exciting. I think we're going to have to bid aloha to everyone. I hope you have enjoyed this. This is lively and you'll have some discussions in your own families and your own households about this. So thank you all for so much for being a part of today's special show, the aloha chak and enjoy your time in Mexico. We'll see you next time.