 Do you guys have meats? Everyone fucking had meats, right? We shouldn't pretend that we can fucking ethic fucking superhero around the world. Here we are at the University of New South Wales. We have a sign here, saving koalas while eating meat makes you a hypocrite. Let's see if anyone wants to have a debate on the topic, because here in Australia there was a lot of outcry for the animals who were tragically killed in the bushfires, which it was a tragedy for me as well. But on their plate is the body parts of an animal who was also killed or sometimes killed in the gas chamber burned alive as well. So we'll see if anyone can see that contradiction or if anyone wants to discuss the topic. What I am saying is I like meat, other people like meat, but not everyone knows that they could eat meat without harming animals. That's what I am saying to you. Why would they choose plant-based meat if I don't tell them about the abuse? That's what I want to know. How do I motivate them to choose plant-based meat if I don't talk about the cruelty? No, I understand what you are saying. But that's what I am saying to you that even the meat lovers, even if I like the animal, it's not like I like to harm the animal. It's like I like meat. Okay, so there is a solution that at the same time you can like the meat, you can eat the meat but you are not harming any animal. We are on the same side here. We got a bit confused. But I have to explain to people. I think the better way to explain to the people is I am saying because I eat meat there, so if you get what I am talking about, so it's better so you can go to every other person who eats meat so they'll understand it better. I used to eat meat myself, you know that, right? And what helped me was realising I was an animal-abusing hypocrite and I stopped, okay? Now until I knew that, I wouldn't stop. Some people who are who can be... I've seen bro, there's nothing in it. It's horrible. People don't see this, that's why they eat meat. If I show them this, they are definitely going to eat this, the plant-based meat. But what do you have to say about this, like I eat meat but I don't want the animals to be abused or to be slaughtered? I have to show you this and say well you are, you're abusing and killing them. I have to show you this. If you don't see this, you don't see the truth. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, that if there is any other substitute available... But people aren't going to eat this if they don't see this. Trust me, they're just going to keep eating their chicken? They don't want to know. If I show them this, they're going to be disgusted and they're going to move over to this. I'll give them the choice. Alright, that's your way. What other way is going to work? People aren't just going to eat vegan food without the motivation. It's either this or this. I'm pointing out a pamphlet here, by the way. He's got vegan food on there. I think it's because I extreme. Well, it's not an extreme. What happens to animals is extreme. What I'm doing is trying to stop it. It's not extreme, it's peaceful. I'll give that to you. You might need this. Alright, sure. Alright, brother. Take care. Agree. You agree. That's fair. I can't argue with that. Cool. There's a perfect point like, that man over there said, I agree with you. Thank you. Look, I can't argue with that. He appreciates the honesty of the sign. You know what I mean? He didn't start yelling at me, going, this is too aggressive or whatever. You know what I mean? It just depends on the person, doesn't it? Yeah, so do you just agree or agree with the sign? What does it say? If you have a quick look, it says saving koalas while eating meat makes you a hypocrite. So it's like, you think eating meat is not a good thing for koalas? No, I'm saying that when you say, don't want koalas to be harmed, like what happened in the bushfires, everyone's seeing the koalas, it's a tragedy what happened to these koalas in native wildlife. But then when they look at their plate and there's a piece of a pig or a piece of a cow or a piece of a bird, all suffered and died in a slaughterhouse here in Australia, I think that that makes someone a hypocrite. Not really, yeah. We're talking about koalas and other animals and I'm a volunteer actually, we went out and put out the bushfires and I'm also working for Maritime Schools, the chief instructor, instructor trainer and we hold on to naked dive activities, we take all the gears and shirts and even on the soft, just to raise money for fun for river fire services. So you're a volunteer in the fires? That's right. And did you save any animals in those fires? No, not really. Just to help people milk their house and put out the grass fires along the highway and we also raise money, raise fun for ISL and my own business. Well thank you for your work in the fires but you disagree that caring for one species of an animal while killing others and putting them on your plate makes you a hypocrite. I want to know why you disagree with that. I didn't quite understand that the relationship between, well we should protect koalas is one of the national protected animals but what about the others? We have ducks and chickens and those things I served on dinner tables all the time for hundreds and even thousands of years and while some animals, people got to, well, intake some sort of protein to be able to live in a healthy lifestyle. So I don't think I should be a vegetarian or something. You think we need to kill these other animals to survive or we won't be healthy. Is that what you're saying? Some of the animals they live in the world and they should be protected. Well the national law says so actually and some of the animals they consider as a livestock they've been kept in a farm. We spend money to, well, bring them up and feed them whatever and we want to serve them on the dinner tables. So what is the difference in value to that cow who wants to live and that koala who also wants to live? Human beings have been eating meat for thousands of years. Should I eat a koala? No, not really. It's prohibited by the law. We're talking about morals and ethics not the law because the law used to sanction human slavery. The law isn't always correct when it comes to morals. You're talking from a moral perspective. Oh, look. I can't separate from, well, you know, more a perspective from law. I can't actually, but they're not separated. They're bonded with each other actually. Not always. What's legal and what's moral hasn't always been consistent. Like I'm talking, use human slavery as in content. That used to be fully lawful to own a slave. That's absolutely right. My family is suffering and they're starving and they can't even stay alive. I wouldn't give a shit about it if I want to kill an animal or something and just keep them alive. So that's a different scenario. That's not the scenario you're in right now. I consider them the same. The meats and all, the chickens and ducks they've been serving on the table for many years. It's a food. And koalas, the, I don't know what's going on, but people never eat them. Well, maybe real people eat them. Not many people eat them. There's a sample of the cartridge and it's protected by the law. I'm saying that just because we've done something for thousands and thousands of years, we've done a lot of evil things for thousands of years. Just because something is traditional doesn't make it moral or ethical. Yeah, well, that's right. I try my best to help all the mates and people around me. But yeah, there's something that, you know, it's just too common around the world that I don't want to change. Oh, I like heavy meats. I enjoy that. I like the flavor. You like the flavor, but animals are being tortured and killed for that meat. They've been abused in slaughterhouses. They've been raised in factory farms. They've had something they shouldn't do. But they have to, it's a requirement for them to do that to animals to feed you. As the scientific improve, people might have a much better way to actually slaughter the animals and serve them into the market. What's a humane way of slaughtering an animal? Well, look, the less pan they fill, the better. Okay. Wouldn't it be more humane to leave them be and eat plants? Well, the people dying around the world every day and we can't save them all. No, but does that mean... People got ripped and people got bullied around, well, even the campus. I don't know, around the world. It's horrible. You don't put... You don't do those things, though. I never, yeah. I disagree, but... When you eat an animal, you're actually doing something horrific to that animal. No, I'm not doing that. I purchased that from the market. Exactly. This is where supply and demand. You don't understand economics? Mate, I'm not Jesus. I'm a human being. Human being living a selfish life. I'm working hard and making money to live in a better life and that's why when you see, well, you driving a Mercedes and the other guy driving a secondhand some sort of, you know, a little car and then you want to drive the better car. Well, people always want to improve their life. Do you disagree that when you pay for animal products, you're paying someone to kill an animal on your behalf? Do you disagree with that? Well, there's no purchase. I believe well, back to then where there's no business at all, people still take guns and go into the forest and go hunting and shoot them. I disagree with that as well. I disagree with that as well. I think we should eat plant foods and leave the animals alone. All animals. Not just koalas, but all animals. Feel the same. They suffer the same. Well, I don't think they're suffering anything. Well, that's how they are. Animals are animals. They are suffering. Well, look, there's a lot of things that I can't care about in my life. My family, and everything. My mates want to live in a better life. I can't care about that much. I can't do it. Do you think that it's okay to kill others so that you have a better life? Or do you think we should live it? Well, not humans. But talking about the terrorists, look at them. What are they doing to the whole world? Yeah, that's horrible. I'm against that as well. Yeah, right. They should be fucking slaughtered. Bullets into their head. Instead of, you know, keeping them alive around the world. Where's the animals? I agree, but we put bullets in cows and they didn't do nothing wrong to us. They're not terrorists. We put bullets in cows to put on our plate. They're not terrorists. They didn't do nothing wrong to you. We're going to eat them to stay alive. I haven't eaten animals for a long time. What about grass? You walk on our grass, do you think they feel any pain? Of course they don't. That's ridiculous. Of course grass doesn't feel pain. Did you go to university here? Oh, yeah, I did. That's just what scientific think. That's what the scientists think. No scientist believes plants feel pain and suffer. That's what they think. And I think they feel pain. Do you think a blade of meat animals to stay alive? Look, guys, do you guys have meats? Everyone fucking have meats, right? We shouldn't pretend that we can fucking fucking superhero around the world. We do what we can to live in a better life and protect our family. That's why we study hard and work in hard. All right? Good on you. End of conversation. Got to move me car. We've also got to take it. That guy would be a good vegan activist because it's very confident just to stand up and start shouting at everyone. Not even I feel nervous doing that.