 So, I think we might get started. So, what I'm going to do now is I'm going to turn off my webcam. Oh, and by the way, my name is Karen Visser, not Alexander Hayes for those of you who get confused. So, I'm going to turn off the webcam now and start the presentation, and I'll turn on the webcam when we get to questions at the end. So, a big welcome to everyone for the opening of the Ann's Data Citation webinar series. This is the first of four, and I'll be mentioning the other ones as we go through. So, welcome everyone. It's fantastic to see people from all around Australia who are taking part in this webinar today. But don't forget the question pod. You can use that at any time. Excuse me, I've got Alexander Hayes with me at the moment, and he's keeping an eye on the question pod as well. And you'll see, when you ask a question, Alexander will respond to you, and you'll see that in the answers. So, for those of you who are a bit confused, no, you can't see everyone else's questions. We've suggested this many times to go to webinar, and they've just said, oh, that's something in the pipeline that I'd like to do. We'd actually like everyone to see everyone's comments and questions. And we're interested to know if perhaps another option such as running a Twitter stream might be possible. So, we'll send that out later on and see, get some feedback from that. So, everyone knows that Ann's has been involved in Data Citation for quite some time, and it's been involved in a whole range of ways, and I'll be going through some of those today. Excuse me, one of the purposes of today's webinar is for new people who are just coming into the world of Data Citation to have a think about if this is something that would truly benefit their organisation, and if so, what do they need to do to come on board? We've got about 20 institutions around Australia who are already well into Data Citation and for them, many of those people are here today, and for them this is a bit of a chance to catch up on what's happening with Data Citation from last year. So, some of it will be new to some of you, and some of it will be an update, and some of it will be a chance to have a think and ask questions about a few things. So, the first question that we often are asked is, well, why site data in the first place? And you can see that there are a number of reasons there, but I guess the first probable reason is that now you can site data. In the past this just wasn't possible, but now data, because it's citable, because it's persistently available, is now being seen as part of the scholarly record in a way that it just wasn't possible before. For those of you who are worried about the format of this particular session, don't worry if you miss anything if I go through too quickly because it's being recorded and the reporting will be released after the session. So, let's have a look at a bit of a history of Data Citation. Last century, Data Citation looked like this. There wasn't any. And then early this century, Data Citation started to look like this. As people began to realise that maybe data needed to be captured. It still was local. Sometimes it wasn't in the red USB bottom right-hand drawer of my office. Sometimes it was on local drives, but certainly wasn't generally available to others. Then it started to become data was seen as an asset and as a first-class output of research. And so we started to move towards this. By the way, apologies to John and Janet from the CSIRO because they did not keep their data in a red USB in the bottom right-hand drawer of their office, I'll just use this example to show you what's possible. So, on the right-hand side you can see we've now got more metadata attached and it's starting to shape up as something that can be cited. Then this is the same record in the Data Access Portal at CSIRO and if you look down the bottom of the screen you can see that the attribution statement is a data citation. So now we've got institutional examples. Here's the same record in the Research Data Australia which is making it a national record. And here is the same record, the top one there, in data site search format which brings it into the international scene. As I was thinking about this, I was thinking data citation is really like a Rubik's Cube. There's a whole range of aspects to data citation and ever so slowly, one at a time, the sides of the Rubik's Cube are starting to line up and very soon now our data citation Rubik's Cube is going to look as beautiful as this one. So let's look at the different sides. Let's take green to begin with and if we take green as being governments, governments though, what's happening in the world of national and international governments which supports data citation. You can see that the Australian government funding for ANZ in particular and actually for most publicly funded institutions there is somewhere the concept that part of the funding might be associated with managing the data outputs. The NHNMRC and the ARC are moving towards thinking about making publicly funded data available and you can see there that there's a signatory to, NHNMRC is a signatory to the joint statement demonstrating the commitment to time your responsible sharing of public health data. So there are no mandates by any means but certainly moving towards that direction. Internationally and so the concept is access and share. If you're going to do that, you also need to cite. Internationally Research Council UK and the National Science Foundation of the USA are recognising data should be acknowledged and therefore cited. The National Science Foundation USA biosketch we'll be looking at that in a bit later today. But the same message stands. Access and share equals site. Let's move on now to the second one. We'll take it as a yellow side of the Rubik's Cube. Digital object identifies and DOIs. Some people already know DOIs. They've been in use for a long time. You can see here that in this particular example DOIs are attached to journal articles and are well used. This example here is from psychology. They're used in different disciplines in different ways, generally taken up more so by sciences than others but it's starting to move along. So a DOI is a persistent identifier. It's a unique alphanumeric string. It's their opaque, which means that the string is meaningless. It's managed by the International DOI Foundation. Some people have said, well, what's Crossref and what's Datasite? How do they work? Crossref is generally for publishers and the examples in the psychology bibliography that you saw before probably would have been assigned by Crossref. Datasite is an international consortia which deals with DOIs for data sets and is the mentor for Australia for DOIs. The main thing about a DOI that is different to a handle, a handle is also an identifier but a DOI comes with a few added extras and the concept is that a DOI is persistent. So you probably wouldn't have signed a DOI to every single data set. It's got to be part of the scholarly record and some people in their data repositories, some have data sets that have DOIs and some have data sets that would never be assigned with a DOI and has a decision tree that enables people to work out whether or not a particular data set would or wouldn't generally be assigned with a DOI. So we know that DOIs are used extensively around the world so why would you put a DOI on data? And when data has a DOI, it provides a number of additional benefits such as it provides a scholarly citation. It's easy and persistent because the DOI should be resolvable to the landing page for the data. You can use it. You can use the DOI to find other, to discover and retrieve but lastly it allows automatic tracking of data outputs. There are new products both available now and in the pipeline that will be able to track the use and reuse of data sets and most of those products require a persistent identifier and most of them prefer a DOI because it comes with the expectation of persistence. So a bit about DOIs. There are 64 million registered DOI names. That's that opaque string. And last year there were a billion DOI resolutions. So for data there's one and a half plus million DOIs for data sets and this year you can see down the bottom then the NISO 2013 recommendation in February this year was that they recommended that DOIs are applied to all supplemental material types and many supplemental material types are data sets. So what does a DOI look like for a data set? Here's one that's in Research Data Australia and you can see that you can use a couple of forms of a DOI. You can, the first one is non-resolvable and the second one is resolvable, both are acceptable. Sometimes it depends on a journal publishing what they prefer but in general both of those are acceptable. Some of you might be on the Ann's Partners mailing list and you would have got an email this week about Margaret Hemp. He's delightful, tattoo your data in the Research Whisperer that just came out this week. And she makes some good points there for researchers and she says that by tattooing your data with a DOI you can have some added extras that will allow your data to be identifiable and identify you as the creator of the data. It's locatable, it's citable and it counts towards your publishing metrics. Ann's Mints DOIs as I said before Ann's is the minting service for Australia and unfortunately at the moment we can only mint DOIs for data which has been generated and attached to Australian research and university organisations. We aren't able to attach data at the moment to private research. So far 20 Australian institutions have approached us to have interest in minting DOIs and you can see there I've just listed age. Most of those eight institutions are either minting DOIs at the moment or they're pretty close to it. And how does Ann's minted DOI look in Research Data Australia? You can see here, here is a computational model so DOIs don't necessarily just apply to data sets they can also apply to computational models attached to this. In this particular example if you look down at the very bottom of the screen you can see that there's the DOI for the computational model that I've actually cut and pasted from way down the screen because it was too far down. And under more information at the bottom of the screen there you'll see the article that links. So now we've got a computational model with a DOI linked to a journal article with a DOI. Another example in Research Data Australia there's the DOI and there's the journal article. Another example is this one and this links quite a few things together. Here's the actual collection that this record is describing. Here is the original data set from which the collection was made. Here's the software and here's the journal article. In this case it's conference proceedings that you can see as links all those together. So in the one record in Research Data Australia we've actually got all the aspects that would make this data set really usable and reusable for others. As you're aware this is number one, this webinar in a series of four. The second webinar that's coming along is next week, next Tuesday and Doug Moncour, Raoul Conner and Dave Connell are going to be taking us through two minting stories. So why did ANU and the Australian Antarctic Division decide to mint DOIs? What did they need to think about as they went along that journey? How did they actually mint the DOI? When they ran into problems, what did they do? And a whole lot more. So there'll also be staff from ANS at that particular webinar. So if you've got some technical questions that you'd like to ask there'll be a number of ANS staff there and also Doug, Raoul and Dave are willing to take questions. So that's DOIs. I'm just checking the question pot if there are any questions there. No, so we'll move on to the next one which is the world of publishing. So in the world of publishing there are sort of four main issues that are happening at the moment. We've got journals requesting and occasionally now requiring data to be lodged with the journal article. There's stronger and stronger links between data and journal articles and you can see the position there of the DOI and linking those two together. We've got the emergence of a new publishing paradigm, the data journals and some of those requests that your data, they don't want the data. They just want the associated data journal article and they're asking that data be approved for repositories. Data citation products such as the Thomson Reuters Data Citation Index are emerging now which will enable metrics to come about from the link between data and data citation. One example of a data journal is this one that was, we heard about only a couple of weeks ago and it's going to be, first edition will be next year. So we're seeing nature. One of the most prestigious scientific journals is launching into the world of data, the data journal. There's going to be a webinar in a couple of weeks time, 21st of May where Alex Hayes and Jerry Ryder from ANS and guests from the JORD and PREPARED projects from the UK are also going to be talking. So we'll have some international guests for that. Please note the change of time for that webinar. It's at four o'clock in the afternoon so that our UK guests don't have to get up in the middle of the night. So that's going to be a really exciting webinar. So make sure you're joining us, particularly those of you who are in the library world and in the publishing world. The next one is metrics and altmetrics and I particularly love this Rubik's Cube. You'll notice that it's all white and if you have a close look it's actually a Braille Rubik's Cube which I think is absolutely wonderful. Metrics and Altmetrics, here's an example from the Dryad data repository and you can see there that they're asking that they have linked the article and the Dryad data package and they've also linked the concept of siting, which is metrics, and sharing, which is altmetrics. So there's the metrics they're asking you to download and use the data citation as part of your formal references but also too they've given you opportunities there to share with a whole range of social media aspects. Just as a look at this, have a look at the very bottom under page views. This particular data set has been viewed almost 300,000 times. So Altmetrics are an interesting way to have a look at the different impact. So metrics are normally about scholarly impact but Altmetrics are about reach, sometimes reach and influence. So let's have a look at how metrics and Altmetrics work. Altmetrics are the number of times that a piece of research output gets thrown out there on social media in a whole range of ways. Not completely, but almost completely, it's usually from open source web services and you can see there's a whole range of open source web services listed down there but social media began the push but increasingly now we're starting to see web based research sharing services such as Mendeley and others which reach the gap between social media such as Facebook and Twitter and the scholarly world of the sharing of actual research work. So let's look at an example of metrics and Altmetrics in terms of data citation. Imagine that in July 2012 you did a survey, you did observations and you released your findings and here it is now in almost May 2013 and you have zero citations. And you're thinking, okay, perhaps my observations were not particularly scholarly or of interest but let's have a look at Altmetrics. Imagine if that same piece of work had 2.7 million views per day. Pretty good. And imagine if this was the number of total views that your particular piece of work had. Count the number of commas. Now, some of you will have realised that maybe I'm stretching this scholarly here just a little bit if you can see the little dancing man on the far right hand side. Well, yes, maybe I was. For those of you, yes, it is gangnam style and yes, if you haven't been one of the 1.5 billion... I won't say people because three of those are mine that I've clicked on them. The 1.5 billion times this has been clicked on. Have a look at it again. It is actually observations of the conspicuous consumption of behaviours of the ultra-rich adults in gangnam which is a suburb of Seoul, South Korea. So, yes, no, it's not really a scholarly work but let's have a look and see how Metrics does apply to scholarly works and to data in particular. Some of you may be aware of Hans Rosling's stunning data visualisations and this one is one of them and this is one of his best. But have a look at the altmetrics on the bottom right hand side. Five and a half million views. So, yes, a view is not a scholarly citation. A view is simply somebody's clicked on it. But when you start getting metrics like that they start counting for something and perhaps this is something that people can start using in their biosketchers in their CVs and attaching these sorts of things to their CVs. If you've never seen this one, I strongly recommend it. Earlier in the webinar I talked about the National Science Foundation talking about data as a product and including it along with other things such as publications, conference papers, etc. when putting in for grants. Heather Piviva, who did a fantastic webinar for us last year and we have the webinar on Jan's website has drawn a bow between the change in policy from the concept of publications to products which means data and she's talking about altmetrics there and she's actually saying that altmetrics have a real place to play in scholarly data. In thinking about the reach rather than simply the scholarly impact. Here's a simple example. You might notice here that I've taken this from bigger science and it applies a score. So the number, you can see the number 33 there and it's just a score that's generated and it says, OK, well what does that mean? 38 tweets, a Facebook news, two science blogs, readers on Mendule, SciTulike, etc. But just drawing your attention, so far Altmetrics has seen 51 tweets from 38 accounts but have a look at this with an upper bound of nearly 28,000 combined followers. So this is a journal article that was published just after Christmas last year. One would expect that there's probably not a whole lot of formal citations but you can see that the reach has been quite far on this particular article. Let's look at the next one. Orange for Anne's. So how does Anne's play into this space? As you know, we've got extensive web information and this page is just new. I strongly suggest that you go and have a look at that page. We've also got a new guide, a number of new guides. This one on data citation isn't new but the one on data journals is new and has been released. So go and have a look at the guides page for that one. The idea of Anne's guides is there's something that you can print off. You can see downloadable PDF, you can print it off and you can take it to somebody who says, well, you know, what is data citation and this is something that we need to be allocating resources towards. Anne's provides a whole range of resources. This one here is the webinar from Louise Portie from the UK Data Archive and in this one she was talking about how does the UK Data Archive actually work out what gets a DOI and when does a data set which are often changing when do they get new DOIs and she goes into really clear detail about that. We've also got Anne's toolkit that has a whole range of aspects of DOIs for it and some of you who are librarians will be interested in implementing data citation. Some of you who are technical are interested in minting DOIs and others who are in policy or executive may be interested in data citation in DOIs. Is this something that our institution needs to be aware of? A couple of new pages that we've just started with these are two new pages and thanks to a whole range of Anne's staff who have been working on this, Susanna, Sabine and Jerry Ryder and Alex Hayes have been working really hard on these new sets of pages and it basically is information aimed at researchers but also for those of you who are working in libraries to personalise your message for researchers you'll notice down the bottom of the screen that we've got how to take a researcher through the stages of data citation and get them to think about what do they need to do to plan, create, use, measure and reward themselves for citing their own data and citing the data of others. The matching page to that one is citation for institutions and it does the same thing as I've just clicked I've just taken a screenshot there from the part that says reward but it helps give you a lot of information that is easily usable. There's a whole range of resources all sorts of things in those three pages. And the last one is Anne's tech support for our site-my-data service this is the technical minting service but there's a lot of things that need to be considered and this is the technical support we've got a really good range of DOI question and answers because we discovered that the technical process of minting DOIs is in fact relatively straightforward but there's a lot of decisions that need to go into the process before DOIs are actually applied and a good understanding of how DOIs should be applied and to whom. So we've only got one side left that's the red side. We've looked at publishing the role of Anne's, DOI's, metrics and altmetrics and government and we've got the red side left and it's probably, it's the pivotal side in the whole of the Rubik's cube for data citation and it's actually about people and these are the people. So in institutions we're talking about all people engaged researchers, data managers, librarians and others and for them, you who are here with us today it's building a culture of data citation some of you might be familiar with this you can download this from Anne's website we have a couple of posters here but you can also, if you want it in a pamphlet form just send us an email and we're happy to send you out some really nifty little pamphlets and it actually takes people through the idea of how you actually build a culture of data citation. And an example is here this comes from Griffith University and in the next couple of weeks the people from Griffith University Natasha Simons and Sam Sewell are going to be talking to us about how did this record actually come about and you'll notice that they had a cyclist collection down the bottom, it's got a DOI how did they actually go through that process in terms of the people involved? So on Tuesday the 4th of June from midday Australian Eastern Standard Time to 1 o'clock they're going to be taking us through what are they doing? It's not a finished process by any means and they've learnt a lot of lessons along the way. So in terms of learning lessons I guess what do we need? So what are the key messages for you who are listening today? Maybe if you want one and a half billion views on your data visualisation maybe learning to dance is a really good idea but more seriously. There's a number of things that are happening that are making data citation more and more given rather than something that institutions are thinking well no, that's not something that we need to do. There's a range of accepted scholarly practices and now that Delta can be cited and is being recognised in different ways maybe it should be cited. We're starting to see funding paradigms more emphasis on access and reuse and therefore citation. You can, and DOI, cite my data minting service is up and running and is available to every Australian publicly funded institution. In the researcher world we're starting to see the movement of journals requesting or requiring a link to data and once that becomes more common and we're seeing it become more common data will need to be managed, curated and if that's the case and it's something that needs a DOI and should have a DOI maybe a DOI would support the concept of its longevity. Scholarly metrics, well established but we're noticing that port metrics are becoming more and more important and I think they will eventually include published data and for this published data it will need some sort of citation of the data and once products such as Thompson Reuters Data Citation Index and other products which are in the pipeline once they're beginning to really show rewards for data citations I think there will be institution rewards and that for researchers. So we don't want this to happen. We want to make sure that for you data and your institution data citation is an understood concept whether or not you actually go forward with it and it becomes a routine scholarly practice within your institution it's something that is well understood in terms of your both your researchers and your institution. So we don't want this to happen. We do want data citation to be seen as everything's in place and I believe we're working towards it. We certainly don't have all of our little corners of our Rivix Cube lined up but we're starting to see more and more that things various sectors within the concept of data citation are lining up. So that's the end of what I've got to say and I'm really interested in what you've got to say. Apparently there are some great questions there. What I'll do first is I'll start answering I'll ask the questions and there's a question here from Anna and what I'll do Anna is I'll unmute you now and if you can ask your own question you're welcome to do that but if we discover that you're not able to speak then I can read your question out to you. So Anna I'm going to unmute you now. Anna Cary. Okay hi Karen can you hear me? Hi. Yes we can hear you. Thank you. Okay can you give me clearly? Yes I can. Okay so this question which is how to deal with two institutions which host the same data set both make it available to the public and how do we set up the DOI or so this applies to Swinburne for our ANS project. We're using CSIRO data from the PAPS radio telescope and they have already done a similar project with ANS so from what I can see on RDA they use handles and their identifiers are local and we're still unclear as to how we should be dealing with basically the same data sets but obviously if it's important that Swinburne gets a citation for that. Yeah I don't know. I'm not quite sure how the institutional citation works. Thanks Anna and that's an often asked question. I just mute you. So Anna I've muted you only so that we don't get any feedback through the recording. In general there's a whole range of things that you can do for this particular situation and you're not uncommon here. Data as we know is more and more a number of institutions are involved. Usually the generating institution has the DOI but sometimes two institutions or three institutions at the beginning of the project will get together and say okay just as at the moment they may decide who's the principal investigator and one of the institutions will be chosen to be the principal investigator. That's decided at the beginning of the project and the same thing now we're asking for you to think about as part of that setting up concept who is going to mint the DOI. So in the case of the Parks Radio Telescope that's a CSIRO as it goes through and goes through into the DAP, the Data Access Portal for the CSIRO they will probably mint the DOI. Any derived data sets i.e. once Swingborn takes that data set and changes the data set in some way you may wish then to mint a second DOI once the data set has changed. So it's something that needs to be sorted out between the institutions hopefully at the beginning of a project but if that's not the case and it hasn't been done it needs to be sorted out once the data starts coming online because the data should resolve the DOI should resolve to a landing page and that could be in the Data Access Portal or it could be in the Swingborn Access Portal. Research Data Australia takes records as you know harvests records from over 70 institutions in Australia and we're very keen not to have two data sets that are identical with two different DOIs but that needs to be sorted out between the two institutions or three or four institutions depending on where they are and we've got a range of these also coming in from overseas at the moment which country mints the DOI. So we're working with Data Site at the moment about how we manage that. Oh another one from you Anna I'll just unmute you again I'm sorry if you could ask your second question. Sorry, we're right. So the second issue is that we have software at Swingborn that is actually going to Monash or at least the researcher who wrote it and maintains control of the development and sort of any updates has moved to Monash. And so there has been already some talk between Swingborn and Monash about how to deal with that and whether you actually have the DOI pointing to kind of an external you know software data repository or whether I don't know I don't know if any other people have this issue. Generally if you think about who is who is the parents of the data who's going to be looking after the data and often not always but often one institution is charged with being the manager of the data and with a DOI you need to guarantee appropriate persistence and so in that case DOI should be minted through the the institution that's managing the data. At this stage it's a person who's managing. Then if that's the case then really think about the persistence and whether or not in that specific instance a DOI is appropriate and should a handle be better. Right. Because a handle is a unique identifier but it doesn't come with the expectation of persistence which a DOI does. So in some cases a handle is a preferred option to a DOI and I'm looking at this case if for example this is an individual who's going to be moving the data with them as they and maybe the software with them as they move from institution to institution maybe a handle in that case is better. Okay. I've got a note there from Sue Cook. Sue if I can find you. Yes. Sue you've got a comment there. Would you like to expand on that? I'm a little doubtful. I was actually able to email you on your own because I think you were speaking with the particular case of the parts data sets from CSI are having handles and not DOIs that's because some of our parts were very early in our project development and we only started mentioning DOIs after that so you may well be handling for some of the earlier data sets but DOIs for some of the more recent ones. So it depends on which you refer to and please get in touch and you can tell me about that. Fantastic. So that's Sue Cook at CSIRO. Thank you Sue. That'd be great. Okay. So Sue I'll just mute you. The next question on the list is from Liz Stokes with Claire McKenzie and they've got a couple of DOI questions. So Claire I'll just unmute you and you and Liz can... There's one more. Hello can you hear us? Yes. Yes. Excellent. Hi Liz. Nothing clear. Okay. So we have a metadata stores project at UNFW and we're looking at implementing a DOI mentor. Our questions are the first one is what happens when version changes happen to a resource which is published using a DOI? So an update is made to a resource or to a data set. Should the DOI automatically resolve to the new version or should it still point to the original version? When we're talking about I think the landing page is there a decision that should be made there to go to the new one or to the original version with a reference to later updated versions of the same data. My answer to this is going to be a bit... might seem a bit fluffy, Liz, but in fact it's fairly clear. A lot of the... When a new DOI is minted for a changed data set sometimes depends on the discipline. So if the discipline needs to have a point in time data set then every time a new data set... additions to the data set are created and sometimes it's at, say, monthly. So once a month the snapshot is taken of the data set and each update would then be issued with a new DOI. If, for example, it's a simple change, so something that's not going to chain... So it's not going to jeopardise somebody else who's used the data set to do research, that their research may in fact have been different. Their research outcomes may have been different had they used the updated data set. Then if that's not the case and it doesn't matter then you would just have the one DOI and update it. But in most cases, mostly you would use a new DOI for each update. Now, if you have a look at Louise Caughty from the UK Data Archive, if you go through her webinar, the recording of her webinar, she actually talks about the decisions that the UK Data Archive made when they were considering when did they and when didn't they apply a new DOI to a data set. Hers is mostly social science but not completely, but it may give you some ideas as to how your discipline and your institution should handle that. So it's a lot in the reuse of the data. How will people reuse it? And if the change will mean that their data set is different and results in different research outcomes then it needs a new DOI. Yeah, I think the use case that I was thinking about with this is actually, you're right, it's on a point in time that changes. So it's the same collection of data, the same sort of set of measurements that happens, like weather data, but it happens over time. So would you, I think then perhaps it's a business rule about deciding whether you decide to have a January data set and mint the DOI for that and then a February data set and have a separate DOI for that or does there need to be, if you want to extract anything out of there, are there implications for the original DOI that you've minted? Yes, yes. So it's a business rule based on a whole range of variables and there's no hard and fast rule because unlike a journal article which has a DOI, once the journal article is published, that's it. But data is not the same as that. And so as I said, there needs to be consideration given to how the data will be used. Right. Okay, in the second question we have is more about data publishing using the DOI. I just wanted to check what the DOI actually refers to. Is it the data object or a metadata record describing the data object? The preferred practice is a landing page which is the metadata record describing the object. Oh, okay. No, you will see variations to that. Some areas it goes to the data. But in general, the data can be seen often as a collection rather than an individual thing. And you'll see that, for example, the example that I used with the Hutchinson Drought Index, it goes to the landing page and then resolves to the data from there. But it also gives an opportunity to include software, journal articles, conference papers, all the other things that wrap with that particular data set and give context and history to that data set. So the best practice is to resolve to a landing page or a metadata record. Right, okay. And so that landing page, then if there are changes or updates to the actual data object, then in that case, the DOI doesn't change, but you could add a reference, say, to a previous version of that done set. Yep. And in release 10 for Research Data Australia, which is happening on the 15th of May, one of the updates in that is that data managers will be able to update the URL associated with the DOI themselves. That's not currently possible, but it will be possible after the 15th of May. And so what that means is that you can go in a number of things. You can go into the URL for the metadata record and you can actually... You could actually... Sorry, I'm trying to read a question as well as I was asking the question. You can go in and update and to the one URL, that may have several DOIs resolving to that singular URL because that's got all of the updated versions of the data set all in one place. One of that in the Wies Court is UK Data Archive where they've done exactly that. In their case, they were doing a series of surveys for poverty, I think in a particular area, and they did the survey every couple of years, and when you resolve the DOI, it goes to the landing page and it shows you all of the surveys, and you just click on the one that is appropriate to you. Great. Thank you. Thanks for that, Karen. Okay. Thanks, Claire. I'm sorry, Jackie. I missed your question, and her question was, is a fee required to have a DOI issued? No, Jackie. At the moment, those DOIs are free. Anything minted by Australia is free and it's part of the service that ANS provides. Sorry, Jackie, I'll just unmute you so that if you've got any questions. Any problems with the mouse? Yeah. Yeah, so I just wasn't sure if Data Site was a commercial entity, so I just wanted to check that, but that's great. Thank you. Yeah. No, Australia Minters, it's free. Okay, great. So another question. Yep. Natasha. Natasha, I'll just unmute you so that you can make your comment. Hi, Natasha. Natasha. Oh, sorry, that's the wrong one. Natasha. I'll get a carrot at Sam here. There's a little... I just stepped out of the room to let me put my read her question out for you. I think she was just pointing out that the UK data archive was the example of best practice that we've been following for the reasoning as well. Yeah, it's very good. And the webinar, that Louise Cautie webinar, she really is quite clear on the decisions that they made. And Louise Cautie's also, if you've got a question, she's more than willing to chat with you about why they came to their particular versioning and granularity. Because along with versioning, the other issue about DOIs is, you know, how low do you go? For example, in archaeology, they want one DOI per pot chart, piece of pottery, not even pot, but piece of pottery. Others, it can be at a collection level. It can be very high level. Next question is from Vladimir. Vladimir, I'll just unmute you. And if you would like to, if you can, ask your question. Hi Vladimir. No, I don't think we can. So I'll ask it on your behalf. Vladimir asks, we intend to publish all data records, metadata, we create in our institutional repository so that all data records will have their own landing page. All our records in the repository have a handle created which is a persistent identifier to that record in the repository. Can you point out what benefits there we would have in minting DOIs for these records? Yeah, good question. Handles are fine. You can have a handle or you can have a DOI. The difference between a handle and a DOI is that a DOI is recognised in the scholarly publishing in terms of the journal articles. So it's an extension of the concept of a DOI applied to a journal article and other scholarly publishing. And also to a DOI comes with the expectation of persistence. And a handle doesn't have that. It is an identifier, it can be persistent, but it doesn't have to be persistent. So that's the difference between the two. The other thing that you might want to consider is that some of the data citation tracking processes such as Thomson Reuters, whilst they will accept handles, they would prefer DOIs because in their situation what they're doing is that they're looking at linking data journals and the journals and the data together and having DOIs makes that process easier for them to track it. So again, it's six of one half a dozen of the other and it's certainly possible to have data citation without a DOI, but a DOI is considered internationally to be more robust, I guess, than a handle. So, Vladimir, if you need more, can you type me another question, please? Just a good question from Fritha. She says, hi, I'm new to this. What does it mean by resolving a DOI? Fritha, I'll just go back quickly through here and show you. You can see that in this DOI here that you've got and you can see that it's a link, resolving a DOI simply means that you can click on it and it will actually take you to the data set. So that's what resolving is. DOIs can come in two forms. They don't necessarily have to resolve. It can just be a number and if, for example, in that case that you can see there from Dryad, if that wasn't an actual link and it was just a set of numbers, so 10.5061.154, you can actually take that DOI and you can put it in a DOI resolver software, which you can just find by looking through Google and it will take you to the data. So for me making it resolvable at the point of the citation just means that it's more findable, it's more discoverable and it's easier access. But there's no hard and fast rule about whether you resolve it within the citation as you can see in that example or whether you need to copy and paste that into a DOI resolver that you find through Google and then that will take you there. So either is fine. Okay. The next question from Andy White. You might... Anne's will be supporting these DOIs for as long as Anne's exists. However, if Anne's were to go away tomorrow, which by the way we're not, but if we were going to be going away tomorrow, we're part of data site which is part of DOI.org. This is already an international consortia and you can see 64 million DOIs already minted and a billion resolutions last year. So if that was the case, Australia would simply get another minter for DOIs or if they're in the unlikely event that there was no Australian minter for DOIs, data site.org would organise for Australia to have another minting service. But it's a persistent identifier and we're part of an international consortia. So you don't need to worry about DOIs being something that was a good idea early in the 21st century, but by 2020 was no longer a good idea. It's certainly something that is well entrenched in scholarly practice. So it's now one o'clock. Thank you everyone for coming along. That's absolutely fantastic. We've had a terrific roll-up and lots of good questions. The recording of this webinar will be available in the next couple of weeks. So all of you will get an email saying when it's available in the link and you can follow that through. If you've got any questions that you couldn't find the question pod or didn't want to ask or didn't think of until later, please just email me, Karen.visa at ans.org.au and I'm happy to ask any questions. And if I don't know the answer, a quick email to the international data site website. We'll get an answer as we have found many times within minutes. So we can always refer it to our parent body if we're not over to answer the questions. So thank you very much everyone and we're looking forward to seeing you at the next webinar which will be next same time, same place, same bat channel next week. And don't forget on Wednesday will be the release 10 webinar as well. So looking forward to seeing you in both of those. Thank you very much everyone. Have a good day and we'll see you next week.