 The next item of business is a debate on motion 8855, in the name of Keith Brown, on Scottish Government support for veterans and the armed forces community in Scotland. I would encourage all members who wish to speak in the debate to press their request to speak buttons now and I call on Keith Brown to speak to and to move the motion in his name. Thank you, Presiding Officer. We are, as you know, a nation that is very proud of its military history, and it is particularly timely to reflect on that history now. As a period of remembrance has just drawn to a close, and many members here, and certainly Scottish ministers, have been proud to play our part in these commemorations, honouring the memory of those who have fallen. However, it is equally important to recognise the contribution of those who are still serving and those who have left or are leaving the armed forces and settling in Scotland. The Scottish Government remains fully committed to supporting all of our armed forces community whether serving or retired. We do that in the context of a changing military landscape in Scotland. Just over a year ago, the Ministry of Defence announced a series of devastating closures to military bases across Scotland, cutting the defence estate by almost 20 per cent. The MOD has still not confirmed the full detail of those changes or what the impact will be on local communities. That is wholly unacceptable, particularly among continued speculation about the latest UK Government capability review due to report later this year. For my part, I will continue to press the UK Government to reverse the ill-thought-through basing changes. To give an example of why they are ill-thought-through, one will suffice. Glencoast Barracks in Pennycook spent £60 million on it, as recently as a few years ago, is now scheduled for closure. As I say, those are extremely ill-thought-out changes. We will also ask the UK Government to reveal the full impact of those plans. However, where it falls to our devolved responsibilities, the Scottish Government continues to work to ensure that no disadvantage is experienced as a result of military service. In 2016, we published renewing our commitments, which set out how we were supporting veterans in Scotland. Since then, we have continued to work collaboratively with our partners in the public, private and third sectors to deliver support where it is needed the most. I have committed to update Parliament annually on progress. The Scottish Government has therefore published Scottish Government support for veterans and the armed forces community in Scotland, which outlines the work in train across the Scottish Government, focusing on our priorities and our response to the work of the Scottish Veterans Commissioner, Eric Fraser. I would like to take this opportunity to commend Eric Fraser on his reports. Scotland continues to lead the way with the only veterans commissioner in the UK. Over the past three years, the commissioner's work has continued to help to drive our policy development. We are there for us to take forward. The Scottish Government has responded positively to all recommendations across the commissioner's reports on transition, housing, employability, skills and learning. On housing and transition, the veterans commissioner highlighted issues that are experienced by some veterans in accessing information. In response, the Scottish Government has launched a veterans portal to bring together information on housing, health, jobs, education and veterans support services, as well as links to other key websites. The dedicated housing section clearly sets out options and advice that we have written to all social landlords asking for them to share their practice on supporting service leavers and veterans with us. We will use that information to help to promote good practice across the social housing sector. That will help to inform our revision of the guidance on social housing allocations. I have mentioned before in debates in the chamber that it is still the case that too many of our armed forces personnel are unaware of that, during the course of their service, they are able to accumulate points towards council housing, for example. Both the advice guidance for landlords and our housing guide for people leaving the armed forces and ex-service personnel will be relaunched in 2018. We continue to provide housing support through funding to organisations such as the Scottish Veterans Garden City Association and by supporting priority access to schemes that encourage home ownership to members of the armed forces and veterans. On employability and skills, that remains a key focus for us going forward. We continue to work with our partners to support veterans into employment. Skills Development Scotland, Job Centre Plus and the career transition partnership work hard to ensure that those leaving the armed forces know about their training and the work placement opportunities that can help them to start the next chapter of their career. For example, Skills Development Scotland's web page, My World of Work, continues to be an excellent resource for all the veterans and the families seeking information about future opportunities. Programmes such as Community Jobs Scotland also give veterans a chance to experience civilian jobs. We have also worked with employers and partners to publish a best practice toolkit on capitalising on military talent to help employers to understand more about the skills that veterans have to offer. We have also expanded the Scottish Veterans Fund in partnership with Standard Life Aberdeen to include a specific strand on employment. That fund has now given more than £1 million since 2008 to support projects and organisations in Scotland. A core recommendation of the Veterans Commissioner was the need for increased strategic direction. I am very pleased that a strategic group on veterans employability, chaired by Mark Bibby of Public Scotland, has been established. That group has influenced real change in how our public sector agencies work together to support veterans in Scotland. They are also taking opportunities to talk to employers about how they can provide and promote further job opportunities for veterans. All that is very good, and it is positive, but we know that there is more that can be done. We will use apprenticeship week to promote opportunities to veterans, and those considering leaving the armed forces in particular, not least through graduate-level apprenticeships, which are fully funded and open to people of all ages. In partnership with Skills Development Scotland, we will develop a welcome page for veterans on the previously mentioned website, My World of Work. That will link into other key web resources such as the Veterans Gateway and will also simplify accessing careers and employability information and advice. I believe that, in addition to those measures, we should also explore what other opportunities there are to support veterans and their families to access quality jobs and, importantly, to talk about families that are extremely important in that regard. To that end, I have asked the strategic group on veterans employability to work with the Ministry of Defence, the career transition partnership, Skills Development Scotland and other delivery bodies in Scotland to make recommendations on what further support is needed to help veterans to move into good-quality, sustainable jobs. That is a very important matter, and it is very important to veterans. I look forward to engaging with the group over the next few months. Alongside the focus support, and since April this year, we have committed £5 million to ensuring that veterans in receipt of social care in Scotland receive the full value of their war pensions. That is a substantial investment in the welfare of veterans and provides them with equity. Back to the point that we previously agreed with veterans organisations, our aim should be to ensure that there is no disadvantage to people from having served in the military. The idea that their war pensions should be subsumed in relation to payments for social care is wrong, and that is why we have taken this measure. Healthcare has remained a continuing priority through the work of the armed forces in veterans health joint group, and we continue to work with the MOD and other stakeholders on specific issues, such as streamlining the transfer of military health records. I have to say that that has become quite frustrating, and I would hope that we have made more progress with the MOD by now. On mental health, we have highlighted Scottish Government support for veterans within our mental health strategy and have also partnered with local NHS boards and integrated joint boards to offer funding totaling £825,000 in 2017-18 to support the continuing veterans first point network. In recognising the importance of supporting the whole family, we also continue to work through the Scottish Service Children's Strategy group to guide and engage work around supporting the educational needs of children from armed forces families in Scotland. Members here, especially those with military experience, will know of the particular stresses and strains that can be caused to military families and children from being moved on a regular basis. Does he have any comment to make on the closure in Grampian as a first point centre because of lack of funding that is available? I am not sure from the nature of the question if Mike Rumbles was aware of how veterans first point was first established. It was established through the Westminster Government providing money through the LIBOR funding, and it was assumed that it would become part of mainstream health services, and that is happening in many areas. Even if the original concept with the money provided by LIBOR has now been exhausted, the lessons from it have been learned. In recognising the importance of supporting the whole family, we continue to work through, as I have mentioned, the Scottish Service Children's Strategy group, but we are also seeking to work within the justice system to support those veterans who are in contact with the prison system or the police. Across all our responsibilities, we will therefore continue to seek to improve our service provision for the armed forces community, especially the small but significant number who struggle to access those services. However, it is worth pointing out that I want to do this at every opportunity in talking about veterans to mention the fact that, in the vast majority of cases, our veterans are an extremely valuable asset to the civilian workplace and our communities with transferable skills and attributes, sometimes skills and attributes that they themselves are not particularly conscious of or willing to promote, which they should do. They have been gained throughout a military career, so my ambition therefore remains to make Scotland the destination of choice for service leavers through offering high living standards, access to housing, good quality sustainable jobs and opportunities for skills development. I now ask Maurice Corry to open for the Conservatives and to move the motion in his name. First, I thank the cabinet secretary for bringing forward this debate today. It is right, and in particular at this time of year, that we pay tribute to the important part that the armed forces and veterans community plays in Scottish life. We in the Scottish Conservatives look forward to supporting his motion today. I am glad that the Government has rightly taken the chance to pay tribute to the stunning work of the Scottish Veterans Commissioner Eric Fraser and his team. On a personal note, as convener, I would like to thank Eric Fraser for his engagement with the cross-party group of the armed forces and veterans community of which I am convener. His contribution to the work and debate of the group has made him most welcome, and I hope that he has gained something from those gatherings as well. All the veterans commissioner's reports on transition, housing and employability skills and learning have set ambitious recommendations, and many of them have produced useful information and have given us all those and the wider armed forces and veterans community plenty of food for thought, which has sparked productive and insightful debate. In his transition report, he correctly identifies this as a critical stage for those who are leaving the armed forces and the chance to have a detailed look at the Scottish perspective is welcome. His recommendations surrounding the need for more joined-up working between UK Government, Scottish Government and local authorities in supporting those leaving the armed forces hits the nail bang on the head. I think as all in this Parliament would recognise and support that helping veterans is not a party political issue or somewhere for conflict to arise between different levels of government, but it is something that we need to come together on and get right for every veteran in Scotland. In the housing report, Eric Fraser correctly identified the issue surrounding the need for better information for veterans and again highlighting the need for work between the Scottish Government and the UK Government as well to ensure that advice and MOD briefings reflect housing policy and provision in Scotland, so service leavers choosing to settle in Scotland are not disadvantaged. It is also encouraging that Eric Fraser took the opportunity to highlight the importance of the armed forces covenant by advocating the need for local authorities to provide more guidance and information to their front-line staff on the principles of the covenant and the council's policy on housing support for veterans. His third report covered what is the massively important area of employability skills and learning to which the cabinet secretary referred in his opening speech. Getting a veteran into a job or training can often be the best thing for helping to turn around their whole life. It was thanks to Eric Fraser's recommendation that we now have a veterans employability strategic working group under the leadership of Neil Bibby operating. I would be interested to hear from the cabinet secretary if he has an update on how that group is progressing. Additionally, Eric Fraser's recommendation on the need for better recognition of qualifications and skills that veterans possess is a very important point. The work of business in the community in this area is a very welcome step forward, and I was glad to have the opportunity to host them as they launched their toolkit to support business here in the Parliament last year. It is not the only important in veterans event that we have had here in Parliament during the last year, one of which was a member's debate held last year on stolen value by my colleague Liam Kerr. Sadly, the bill going through Westminster and its subject fell during the June's election, and no replacement has come forward so far. I believe that the example of James Riley of Fife who lied and posed as an ex-royal marine and then stolen £60,000 meant to support veterans highlights the need for action in this area. I would be interested to hear from the governor whether any such consideration has been given to bring forward legislation on his issue. Moving on to my amendment in my name, which I formally move, I hope that this will receive the sport from all sides of the chamber. I believe that it is vital to recognise the importance of many veterans charities who support our veterans in many ways, some in very difficult circumstances. I am pleased to hear the cabinet secretary's statement in his opening speech that it is going to be looked at. I welcome that. In Scotland alone, we have at least 320 armed forces charities operating in the area, providing a wide variety of different services for the veterans community, such as helping to provide veterans with health and wellbeing services and activities, education, employment and career services, and in housing provision. The scale and nature of those charities differs massively. We have the large nationally recognised organisations such as Poppy Scotland and Legion Scotland, down to the smaller organisations that do just as valuable work, such as the numerous veterans veterans clubs, drop-in centres and community cafes that run across the nation. One example of the massive amount of work that those charities do is the Lothian Veterans Centre in Dauceith. They deliver over 200 hours of support sessions or activities a month supporting veterans. They have welcomed over 160 brand-new clients in total so far this year, in addition to the many regulars and returners, and this includes a small but increasing number of partners and family members. It is three to four times up on last year. They cover a wide range of the veterans community, as well as from early service leavers to those that are retired. They support veterans from all three services and from across the Lothian regions. The type of work that they do is spread across just as a larger area as well as supporting veterans with health and wellbeing advice, housing and benefit advice, supplying help with employment and training, and also running a drop-in centre. The work of the drop-in centre in particular is valuable. I had the pleasure of attending one of their Friday bacon roll mornings at the centre. It was just as enjoyable as it sounds, but it did have a serious side as well as providing a safe space for veterans to talk about their issues, concerns and access to support that they need. They are just one example of great locally run veterans charities, and there are numerous other examples that I could have highlighted from across Scotland. However, groups like Lothian veterans centres do struggle. The cost of their services is high, and accessing funds can be a struggle due to the high barriers for entry for funding placed in front of them. We need to do more to support those groups, and without them the cost and impact on our local authorities will be great, and the negative impact on veterans will be even greater. I urge the cabinet secretary and ministers to look at how we can support smaller veterans charities and groups who are doing great work and who we want to do even more work but need a bit of support. I am sure that members from all sides are willing to support them in this great work. Finally, I would be pleased to hear from the minister, summing up today, on whether he will support my call to Scotland for Scotland to host the Invictus Games. I made this call previously in the chamber, as I believe that it will be a great success and help to raise a profile of the issues facing our disabled servicemen and women and veterans. Mark Griffin will open for Labour. I very much welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate on the subject of armed forces veterans, the work of the Scottish Veterans Commissioner and to talk about some of the vital support services and charities that operate in Scotland and throughout the United Kingdom. I would like to acknowledge from the outset the debt of gratitude that Scotland owes to those who have served in the defence of our freedoms that we enjoy and to put on record the continued support that we on this side of the chamber give to our armed forces personnel and veterans in Scotland. We are committed to continuing to work on a cross-party basis to ensure that our veterans and their families receive the support that they need and deserve. In particular, we recognise that our service personnel often need help with the transition to civilian life, particularly in finding housing and employment. We recognise that those who leave the service can be physical and psychological scars for many years after their active service ends. Being a member of the armed forces, particularly during times of conflict, is immensely stressful beyond anything that we could imagine. However, that stressful situation creates a level of commitment and an intense bond among service personnel that is unique to our armed forces. I could only listen and try to take it on board when I heard from a soldier who had served in Afghanistan worth it was like to come under fire. The impact on their battalion was when it lost a member of its own who was as close to him as any member of their own family. I can only imagine how isolated someone must feel if they are discharged from the armed forces into society alone, perhaps with no family support, having had such a close bond with the comrades that they fought with and possibly lost in combat. Going from living in such close quarters with people that they considered family, eating, sleeping, working and socialising with the same close group that has been discharged into a community of strangers, we tend not to understand military life and the bond that creates between people. The majority of service men and women make a successful transition into civilian life. The veterans that we have in Scotland are not a problem, they are an asset to communities. Veterans have transferable skills that they may not realise they have, a point that the cabinet secretary made. Those skills become assets to companies and communities. For the reasons that I mentioned earlier, it really is not hard to see why some veterans struggle to adapt and reintegrate, which can put a massive strain on family life as well as those without family. It is vital that the advice and support services that are in place for former service personnel to adjust to living in mainstream society must support plans to co-ordinate and deliver support and advice services from the public, private sector and the voluntary sector for ex-service personnel, their partners and their children. There are too many fantastic organisations providing support and advice to ex-service personnel and their families to mention and do justice to them all, but I want to mention some. We have to continue to support those organisations that do that tremendous work in the community for former service personnel across Scotland, including for a start the Royal British Legion. The Legion provides practical care advice and support to unforces personnel, ex-service men and women of all ages and their families. It runs the poppy appeal annually and recent appeals have emphasised the increasing need to help the men and women who are serving today as well as ex-service people and their dependents. The Legion also assists any service man or woman to pursue their entitlement to a war-disablement pension and every year up to 200 ex-service personnel in Scotland are represented at war pensions tribunals. Just across the road from the Parliament, we have the Scottish Veteran's Residencies, which provides residential accommodation to more than 300 ex-service people and their partners and has helped thousands of veterans throughout Scotland since it was established. We have Safa, who's Lanarkshire branch covers my region of Central Scotland. It offers financial, practical and much-needed emotional support to current and previous members of the unforces and the families through services like Forces Line, which is a key service that supports service personnel. It's independent from the chain of command, so seven members of the unforces can go in confidence and receive the support and advice that they need. They also run additional needs disability support groups and organise children's holiday runs. That's run by volunteers that offer experiences and activities to which some of the children would not normally have access. Erskine will come on to closing as a leading provider of care for veterans in the country and provides fantastic services within our communities. Those are things that individual members of the Scottish Parliament can do to assist armed forces veterans and their families. Supporting some of those charities and the work of the Scottish Veterans Commissioner is just the start of that work. I will close as I open by acknowledging the debt of gratitude that Scotland owes to those who have served in our unforces and the defence of the freedoms that we take for granted. Let the chamber know that we will be supporting the Government's motion at decision time. I am always more than happy to work on a cross-party basis to support veterans and armed forces personnel in Scotland. Thank you for the opening speeches. We now enter the open part of the debate. I call on Bruce Crawford to be followed by Edward Mountain. We are now in our hundredth year since the first world war drew to its conclusions. I think that it is appropriate to take just a little time out to reflect on the important debate on veterans to speak a little bit about the contribution that Stirling and my constituency made during that most hellish of wars. Many members may know that Stirling Castle was the hub for recruitment during World War I. Stirling Central location and its railway access made it the perfect spot for recruitment in transit of troops and other personnel. Young men trained and gathered at Stirling Castle. They would march down the railway station to complete at the beginning of a journey that would see many of them complete their lives journey in places of horror, such as the killing fields and the muddy hell that was Flanders. I cannot help, but when I attend the remembrance service at the Church of the Holyrood, it is at the top of the city of Stirling, as it did Sunday past. In the past, these men will have walked down past this church in the way to the railway station. I cannot help but think of them as part of that remembrance service. In numbers too many to imagine, they made the ultimate sacrifice then and in the century that has followed, others have done the same. Countless numbers have returned from battlefields of the past and present with broken bodies and broken minds. For that reason among others, I think that this debate today is so important that we are having on veterans. My own family has some of its own proud connections with the military. One of my sons served in the RAF. My father was in the Royal House of Recovery and my grandfather fought with the Scottish horse during the First World War. My grandfather fought with Gallipoli and, like many men of his generation, would only very quietly discuss some of the horrors that he had witnessed after a few dramas at family gatherings. However, those stories are remembered as a young man had a real impact on me. I have no doubt that he was left damaged by what he, the horrors that he had witnessed and particularly in the battles that he would tell us about in regard to the armies of Turkey. Of course, today, he would all have likelihood been recognised as suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, and today he would be able to access services and help from organisations such as PTSD Resolution or Combat Stress, charitable organisations that help veterans re-engage with mainstream life. PTSD Resolution once said of veterans seeking help. They often find us because their partner has told them that they have to get help because they cannot do anything more. They can just see that situation utter desperation for some of those families who are having to deal with some of those damaged men and women who have come back from areas of conflict. Those organisations do an amazing job of trying to help them, and all the support that we can give them is the better. However, that tells us that, although much of the discussion today will be on the importance of making those support services accessible, there is also an important role from families and loved ones to play a role in the recovery journey for some veterans. That is something that we do a lot better today than was the case for people like my grandfather in the past. In the early days of the first SNP minority government, not long after being appointed a minister, the then First Minister asked me to take on a role of liaison between the Ministry of Defense and the Scottish Government. In a meeting soon after coming into government with the tri-service his heads, I recall Alex Salmond saying very powerfully that the armed forces and particularly our veterans were part of the vital threads that made up the very tartan of Scotland. What the First Minister was trying to do was to say that he was pledging that in Scotland we would strive to make veterans services in Scotland the very best services available anywhere on these islands. At First Minister's questions last week in this chamber, the current First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, laid out in an answer to my question just how some of that pledge has been put into effect. The cabinet secretary referred to some of these matters as did Maurice Golden in his opening contributions. Since 2008, more than £1 million has been invested through the Scottish Veterans Fund to support more than 140 projects across Scotland. Fundings provided invaluable support across important of all the areas such as housing, health and employment support for veterans. Of course, we now have the Employability Group that has been established to lead work in that area, and £5 million has rightly been committed to ensuring that veterans in receipt of social care receive full value for their war pension. The rationale for that was laid out quite well, I think, by the cabinet secretary in his opening remarks. This works vital because it is widely known in fact that those leaving the armed forces second into mainstream life can be a real challenge. That reflected in a report that the UK Justice Ministry published earlier this year that showed that 2,500 former armed services personnel began serving prison sentences last year. That indicates a real need to address how we continue to improve mental health and wellbeing among the veterans community. Yes, it is true that, by far, the vast majority of veterans, because of the skills that are gained in the armed services and the values that they come out of the services with, make a remarkable contribution to our society and our life in Scotland. However, those are still real challenges that we must continue to tackle and face head-on in order to ensure that, as a society, we are offering our veterans the best possible support. With those facts in mind, I would like to pay a bit of tribute to the work that has been done by the Stirling Citizens Advice Bureau to provide advice and support to armed services in communities and their families. The CAB Armed Services Advice project works in a funding group that is fronted by Poppy Scotland, who, frankly, does a quite amazing job in Scotland. It offers support where it can to serving our former armed forces personnel either regular or service or their dependence. That is a crucial lifeline to those who use those services and offers valuable advice and specialist help in a range of areas, including welfare entitlement, debt management, seeking employment as well as relationships and housing. That support is free, confidential and impartial, exactly what many men and women who have close connections with armed forces need in order to help them to deal with the everyday stresses of life. I commend the Government for bringing forward this debate today, because it is hugely important that we can come past the remembrance day services and the approach of Maurice Corry and the way that he has gone about his business earlier on today. I commend the Government for bringing this forward and I look forward to listening to other contributions this afternoon. I thank the Government for bringing forward this motion for debate. I declare that I am a veteran, like Keith Brown and Maurice Corry, and I declare that my son is a serving soldier. This really important debate comes at a time of the year in the country when it comes together to remember the sacrifices that were made not only by soldiers, sailors and airmen, but also by civilians in the defence of others. I believe that all veterans regularly remember the actions of friends and colleagues, not just on remembrance day but on every day of the year. On this recent remembrance Sunday, as I always do, I remember the tragic events that happened in London in 1982, when my regiment and friends were targeted by the IRA. I have mentioned this before in the chamber, so I will not dwell on that. I also thought of those veterans who have put their lives on the line to defend the country and who are still being hounded in their retirement and dragged through the courts to answer accusations that have already been investigated and the case is closed. I want to particularly mention Dennis Hutchings, a former lifeguard who is just one of many veterans who served in Northern Ireland during the troubles and is facing legal action. Being mindful of what I say in June 1974, whilst on patrol in country Tyrone, Dennis came across an IRA unit of some 10 men moving arms and ammunition. A firefight broke out, which resulted in four people being arrested and the remainder escaping. Just two days later, in the same area, his patrol encountered two men who ran off when challenged. One of the men that ran off was subsequently shot, and it is this incident that Dennis has been charged with. This is despite the two investigations where Dennis was told that the matter was closed. He tried to live a normal life in the same way that John Downey did post the bombing in Hyde Park, which he was accused of. The difference is that Downey received a letter that has admittedly sent in error saying that he would not be charged with the bombing and that Downey is now free from prosecution. I do not believe that it is right to judge the actions of armed forces in combat in the same way that we assess what is acceptable for the behaviour of people in normal society. I believe that, as parliamentarians, we must fulfil our basic duty to our veterans by protecting them from those kinds of prosecutions. I want to quote the UK Defence Committee, which stated that, to subject former service personnel to legal pursuit under the current arrangements is wholly oppressive and a denial of natural justice. I therefore welcome the Prime Minister's commitment to make the new legacy bodies fair, balanced and proportionate. I welcome the UK Government's announcement that the consultation document on the forthcoming draft Northern Ireland Bill will include alternative ways forward, which will include a statue of limitations. Although I accept that this is a totally reserved matter, I hope that the Scottish MPs of all parties will support it. Although the legacy investigations did not form part of Eric Fraser's report, it is an important issue that veterans who have served on active duty have to face, which is why I mention it. I want to commend the Scottish Government for all the actions that they are doing to help veterans. I also want to thank Eric Fraser for his report. I believe that it is very difficult for anyone to argue that we owe so much to those in uniform, who, at Arbor Hest, have been prepared to put everything on the line. We need to stand beside them, with them, and we need to have their backs when the going gets tough, because we have no idea what they have faced or the stresses that they have had to deal with. Before I close, I would like to briefly mention the importance of regimental and unit charities that fundraise directly from the public. These charities are so important, not only for veterans but also for veterans' families. The latter are often excluded from direct governmental support and benefit the flexibilities of charities. I know, for example, the Household Cavalry Foundation has already helped families and children of soldiers who have served in both the lifeguards and the blues and rolls, giving them the help that, sadly, they cannot get from other sources. On average, the charity allocates £100,000 per year, helping soldiers and their families. That includes £30,000 to £40,000 paid direct to families and their children. That is but one charity. The work that they undertake for the Household Cavalry is replicated in nearly all units and regiments across the British Army, Air Force and Navy. In summary, I would like to urge the Scottish Government to help to protect our armed services, cleared by military investigations from being prosecuted many years later for no apparent gain. I would also like to commend the actions taken by the Scottish Government in their work with veterans and urge them to continue to ensure that we repay our debt to our armed service without questioning the need to do it. I have in the process of contributing to previous debates on the subject that was talked about by my late grandfather. It was he who stimulated my interest in the military and veterans from a very young age. My grandad served in the Gordon Highlanders. He lied about his age to join in 1921, and he worked his way up through the ranks, returning the civilian life in 1945 with a rank of major. Along the way, Major James McIntosh was awarded the military cross for heroism in North Africa. Sadly, he died 45 years ago, as a result of which I was denied the opportunity to engage with him meaningfully around just what he and his comrades had experienced during World War II and how this had impacted him. It is a subject that, in adult life, I have come to form an interest in. I am not sure about the extent to which he has been willing to open up, unlike Bruce Crawford's grandad, not even the taking of a drama or two would loosen his tongue. My grandfather founded the fifth, seventh old comrades association, a clear indication of the value he and his old pals placed on the common bond they had, but he rarely spoke in detail of what they had encountered during the battle of El Alamein or, indeed, in Italy. He dismissed the action that won him the military cross, as having emanated from finding himself and his men halfway into a minefield before realising where they were and having the choice of either going forward or backwards. They gave him a medal for making the decision that he did. I later learned that he was recognised in the way that he was for dealing with a machine gun nest or two in order to aid his men to safety. In an all-too-rare moment of opening up, though, he did once explain that the fifth, seventh amalgamation had come about as a result of the losses that the individual battalions had suffered in conflict. A rather sobering scenario, especially for those who had witnessed the deaths of so many close friends, and now, considerably older than I was when that conversation took place and mindful of how our understanding of the mental scars left on our service personnel have developed, I really do wonder just how badly that generation was let down. That is not a criticism of such. It was a different time. PTSD had never been fully recognised at that point, but oh how we must have failed so many of our soldiers, sailors and airmen and returning them to Sivvy wife, leaving them to cope however they could with the horrors they had witnessed and multiply that tenfold when considering our treatment of servicemen from the First World War. We cannot change that, of course, but we can and we must ensure all possible support for personnel nowadays, not only those leaving the services with mental or physical issues, but all personnel. In terms of redressing past wrongs in so far as we can, Des Brown, the then defence secretary's decision in 2006 to pardon the 306 British soldiers executed for desertion or cowardice during World War I, was a commendable step. We now know that those men were likely suffering from PTSD. The family of private Harry Farr had sought a judicial review following a previous decision not to grant a pardon. Harry Farr fought for two years without respite and was suffering from PTSD when he was shot for cowardice. After he was executed, his family received no military pension and his widow and his daughter were forced out of their house, suffering financial hardship, stigma and shame. Incidentally, the National Theatre of Scotland has begun to chart the story of the 306 and the effect on those left behind. I understand that the first two parts have been extremely powerful. The third part of the trilogy is still to come. In this context, and in relation to those whom we will be carrying with them a mental legacy from service, let me pay tribute to the work done by Combat Stress. I had not realised until the weekend where, whilst taking part in the remembrance service in Monty Feith, I learned that Combat Stress will celebrate its centenary in 2019, having been set up a year after the First World War ended. Whilst the state may have been providing little in the way of meaningful care, the founders of Combat Stress recognised that there were thousands of servicemen returning from the front line with severe mental health problems and receiving little on no sympathy, let alone support. The charity's founders believed that veterans could be helped to cope with their mental health problems through a rehabilitation programme. In 1919, Combat Stress started providing occupational therapy, and it is still being offered at its treatment centres and via its community teams. In 2016-17, 10,000 calls were handled by Combat Stress' helpline, more than 2,000 referrals were received by Combat Stress from former servicemen and women struggling with their mental health. Around 1,200 veterans completed their treatment programmes, and positively, 93 per cent of those undertaking the PTSD intensive treatment programme completed it. Over the last 12 months, 269 Scottish veterans have been referred to the charity for the first time, and it currently has 375 veterans in Scotland registered with it. Encouragingly, it seems that veterans are coming forward for help much more early now. On average, veterans used to wait 12 years after leaving the forces to seek help. Combat Stress has seen Afghan veterans on average seek help three years after leaving the service, and Iraq war veterans four years later. Combat Stress is a network of community teams across the country who provide clinical assessment and support to veterans in their communities. Each team is made up of a community psychiatric nurse and an occupational therapist. Poppy Scotland pop-in centres are used for its community clinics. Combat Stress has three treatment centres, one of which is in Ayrshire, and it has taken steps to increase its capacity to support people across the UK since 2012. In 2013, the charity was commissioned as the PTSD specialist provider for veterans in Scotland. The Scottish Government continues to provide funding of £3.6 million over three years to 2018 in partnership with NHS Scotland for the provision of specialist services for veterans resident in Scotland at Holybush. A full range of specialist mental health assessment, treatment education advice and support is offered to help recovery and improve the quality of life for those veterans across Scotland who need assistance. It is, I believe, taken an important step by utilising peer support, who better to support veterans than others who have served in our forces and who have had similar experiences. I am pleased to note that the Scottish Government is investing in mental health services for veterans, with 825,000 being provided this year to support the veterans first point services network. There are various centres across Scotland, including one serving Tayside at Kings Cross hospital in Dundee. I understand that Combat Stress is building positive relationships with the veterans first point network. At the beginning of the year, I led a member's debate on the veterans commissioner's report on employability and skills. Eric Fraser's latest paper is on health and wellbeing. He seeks to correct the misconception that veterans health is worse than that of the general population, but does note that their needs can differ. The paper has been welcomed by Combat Stress. I look forward to reading the reports that the commissioner details will follow on from his paper. I look forward to the Scottish Government building on the targeted and very significant support that it currently provides for our veterans. I have a bit of time in hand, so I am happy to be generous with speeches and, of course, interventions. I call Daniel Johnson to be followed by Christine Grahame. I, too, would like to echo the welcome that has come from across this chamber for the fact that this debate has come forward. Indeed, as I was preparing for this debate, my thoughts turned to my grandfather. My grandfather died just over a year and a half ago. He served in the RAF, the majority of a service in Fort William, working with Mountain Rescue. At a critical time when that service was really at the point of transition from having been an exclusively military function, one that was founded in order to rescue down to airmen during the Second World War, to one that is now the civilian service that we recognise today. What it made me think was that, at this point in time, and at this time of year, that direct experience of service, of either conflict of itself or of service in the military, is something that is becoming less common. 20, 30 or 40 years ago, most of us would have had a family member who had either seen action in the Second World War or, at the very least, served through national service in one of our armed services. That direct experience of service is one that is diminishing. I think that it means that we need to take greater care, that we need to change our thoughts and views of what remembrance means. Of course, remembrance must always be first and foremost about remembering those who have served, those who paid the ultimate price, those who fought to secure our freedoms and liberty. However, it was also incumbent that remembrance is about wider understanding about what service means and the armed forces means. In particular, I think that serving the armed forces, yes, it is sometimes about that ultimate sacrifice, that ultimate duty, but it is also about that wider, richer experience that often is involved in the armed forces, that the broad range of different things like mountain rescue and the other functions that the armed forces carry out. I would like to make some remarks about that through my speech, but I would also like to reflect on the points that have been made by other members about transition. As I make those remarks, I do so very mindful that we are very lucky for the debate to be being live, but people such as Keith Brown, Maurice Corry and Edward Mountain have actually seen those actions, because I have to only imagine what that transition must be like, and it is something that they can speak to very directly. However, coming out of the armed forces is a very significant issue that those who are doing it have to take place. For anyone who is changing jobs, there is a huge number of considerations that you have to go through. The thought about what skills you will need and what the differences will be in your new job compared to your current job. However, coming out of the armed forces, it is not just simply a matter of tasks or responsibilities that change, it is a whole way of life. Mark Griffin put it very well when he described it as coming out of a family and potentially a community of strangers. On that note, we are absolutely right to praise the work of Eric Fraser. The Veterans Commissioner has done an excellent work highlighting the many issues around the transition that our Veterans face, and in particular around skills. The fact is that many of our servicemen and women have highly relevant skills in a broad range of areas. We often hear about the skills gaps that we have on our economy, so I urge the Government to look carefully to make sure that we are maximising the use of those skills. In my previous career, I worked alongside a number of people who come from the REF with extremely deep digital skills, who had highly useful IT skills, and we are using them successfully. Again, we often think about people who are armed forces as primarily combatants, but we have highly skilled technicians and engineers, and we need to make sure that we are using those skills when they come to that. In particular, I would like to highlight the recommendation 11 in the skills paper that was brought forward by the commissioner talking about a plan for early service leavers in particular. It is vital that we upskill and make sure that we have retraining possibilities. I very much welcome what Keith Brown has said around apprenticeship week and the world of work, but around those early service leavers, the Scottish Government agreed to a plan by May 2017, and I am certainly not aware that it has been produced yet, so I was just wondering if the minister might be able to clarify the status of the report on that plan. It also makes a broader point that we need to make sure that people leaving the armed forces have the information available to them, but we need to make as far as possible that that transition is integrated and seamless. They start that skills journey before they leave their armed forces, so that their learning experiences in the armed forces are linked directly to their opportunities afterwards. I would also say that it is not necessarily just about modern apprenticeships or the skills regime, but we also want to look at articulation and other education issues. The articulation point is one that was made by the commissioner, but all those points around how people access different points of the education system, move between them and on to other ones, are also important for people in the armed forces. We need to ask that question about how those education matters are relevant to people in the armed forces when we discuss them. Articulation, making sure that people get credit for the skills and experience that they have in their armed forces, is a particularly important one. I would also like to briefly mention housing. I think that it is very welcome that better information is being provided to veterans and those about to leave the armed forces, but I think that there are still issues. Certainly, I have had dealings with case work with people who are about to leave and absolutely are looking for council housing, but the reality is that they are having to move across the city, ripping up those family routes, the issues around schools and the ability for their family to continue their life. Indeed, that is an issue for people not necessarily quite inside my constituency, but certainly there is MOD housing just beyond my constituency boundaries. I think that that does remain an issue. The one other point with this, and I think that talking about transition and the reality of it, is that those issues around transition do not always happen at the point that that person leaves the armed forces. I think that Bruce Crawford made a very good point about the shocking statistics that we often hear about, the proportion of armed forces people that end up in prison. I think that very often those issues that come to light following transition do not always happen immediately. They quite often happen further down the line. I think that it is very important that we make sure that we keep an on-going relationship and communication with service people so that we can catch those problems, because at the moment I am not sure that we do. The one final point is that I was very taken on my recent visits with the armed visit program, just the great rich variety of things that the armed forces do themselves around health, emotional wellbeing and around skills. My final point is that this debate is as much about making sure that we help people as they come at the armed forces, but perhaps at that point of co-operation and partnership, I would also say that there are many things that we can learn about public policy from the armed forces themselves, because they do a great deal of work around such things as health, emotional wellbeing and skills. I think that there are possibly some lessons for us to learn from them as well. I call Christine Grahame to be followed by Mike Rumbles. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. First of all, I associate myself with the March of the Cabinet Secretary on the disgraceful proposed closure of Glencore's barracks in my constituency, something that we have debated in here before. I want to turn to the last sentence practically of the motion that says that the Scottish Government should continue to work in partnership to ensure that the armed forces, veterans and their families receive the best possible support and access to opportunities across Scotland. I want to focus my contribution in completely different directional mothers on the opportunities that are or ought to be available to the spouses and partners, and indeed the children of serving personnel. I want to do that with particular reference to a programme run by Women's Enterprise Scotland, WES. This is a business creation project supported by the Scottish Government through its general funding to Women's Enterprise Scotland and the Armed Forces Covenant, which supports at the tune of £20,000, not a lot of money. Its purpose is to unlock the business potential of military spouses and partners. This is a 10-week training course, and in a report on the project that was published in February this year, 76 per cent of participants took steps to create a business during the course, and by the end of the course, 100 per cent of participants reported there the confidence to set up a business. The project, which I have visited, as has the cabinet secretary, is based, as I say, at Glincors in my constituency. There is a one and a half hour face-to-face workshop held each week with online support. A crush that is much needed is provided all the toddlers do tend to invade the meetings, and a group of whys also came to Parliament to explain their projects, which varied from massage to mass making. I have a picture to prove myself with the latter, but I also thank colleagues who attended. I know that the whys and partners were very pleased to see colleagues there. West has successfully received, secured from the MOD Covenant fund, a further £20,000 of another 10-week course, and I have been in a visit to see that one again. We have there a monster maker, special effects artist, an HR consultancy, a virtual assistant, a retailer of slogan and personalised t-shirts—I have one on order, not for myself—it is my brother's Christmas present—and gifts, a bath bomb maker, a massage therapist and soft furnishing supplier. All of the above are businesses with market opportunities, but they need the support and business insights to enable them to transition from a possibility to a business reality and a career prospect. However, there is more to the course than business—important though that is. Military whys and partners find it nigh on impossible to take on regular employment due to the peripatetic nature of military life—we all know that. They are also often on their own with children for months on end and far removed from close family. While they support each other, the project builds self-confidence, is very sociable and, in a way, gives them back that sense of independence. Because of the nature of their partners' work in the armed forces, their ambitions often have to take second place, but the programme offers them something that they can achieve all for themselves. I would even go so far as to say that it adds to providing a positive and stable home environment for their partners who are active in the armed forces when they return, because it gives the whys and partners something that they are achieving on their own terms for themselves. That is very important when you give up quite a bit of yourself to support quite rightly your husband or partner in the armed forces. Indeed, some business projects may very well grow into something more substantial, as with internet sales and advertising through Facebook and so on, if their husbands move base or are posted abroad, the wives' work can travel with them. It is not fixed, it is online. However, the continuation of the project extending elsewhere is, as most things in life depend on funding. I am delighted that the funding has continued to give on-going support to the women who start up in business, because there is more to it once you start up. You must enable them to support the growing businesses, to integrate them more with the local business community and to grow the business links, contacts and networks that are critical to the growth and sustainability. With more funding, it would support another new group of women along the road—we have a 10-week one going now—to start up a business and, as they move forward, to network them with other women who have preceded them in their existing businesses. That way, they get peer support and access to mentoring, and it also helps them with the sustainability. I would therefore be pleased to see the MOD backing more of those projects, because it works so well. You do not need to take my words for it. If you log on to startupwithwest.com, you can read that report from February for yourselves and see how worthwhile it is. I commend it to other colleagues in here who have army barracks in their areas and who have not had a project such as this set up. As I said in a different tack, this is about supporting the wives and partners of active personnel now and for the future, so that they can have an independent career in life for themselves. I thought that it was important to bring that particular issue to the chamber among other contributions. I call Mike Rumbles to be followed by Tom Arthur. I am pleased to be speaking in this debate about Scottish Government support for our veterans. I am happy to have been following Christian Graham, who has mentioned Glencoast barracks several times in her contribution. I spent my first two years, my 15 years in the army in Glencoast barracks and with the Scottish infantry, so I know it well. I also want to make clear that Liberal Democrats will fully support the Government's motion and the Conservative amendment tonight. I hope that it is supported unanimously across the chamber. It is heartening to hear such support for our veterans from right across the chamber. However, I want to take this opportunity to raise a case where the Government's support has not been exactly fulsome. I refer, of course, to a lifeline service, the veterans first point centres. First set up in Scotland with money gathered from UK banks and Libor fines. That funding has run out. The Scottish Government offered to continue funding the first point centres but would only guarantee 50 per cent of the funding, the other 50 per cent to come out of health board budgets. The veterans first point service is, as I say, a lifeline service and six of the eight centres are still open because their health boards are stepping into the breach. Unfortunately, Grampian and Highland centres are closed, so why are they closed? They are closed because no funding could be found, even with 50 per cent funding from the Scottish Government. It does not let the Scottish Government off the hook here, though. I lay the responsibility for those closures squarely at the collective feet of Scottish ministers, particularly the health ministers. It is a pity that Maureen Watt, whose responsibility this particular issue is, is not here to hear that. I do not doubt the sincerity of the minister on the front bench at the moment. Keith Brown has done a lot of work. I am glad that you raised the point of sincerity, Mike Rumbles, because I understand why you have directed your attack upon the Scottish Government. Surely there is also a role here for the UK Government and why you are not addressing that particular issue. If that is a serious attempt to get real funding into that organisation, it is not just about the Scottish Government. I will pursue that. I will show you why I am blaming the Scottish Government in a moment. Let me focus on the service that was available in Grampian, because that is what I know best. Veterans First Point Grampian Centre completed its service to our veteran community on Friday 22 September. In its closure notice, it said, veterans in this area should contact their GP for health-related issues and the veterans First Point Scotland team for their closest centre. However, their nearest centre, available to them, is in the NHS Tayside area. That is what the Government and Grampian health board mean when they say that. Their needs will continue to be met through mainstream services—in other words, going for the GP. The reason why the Grampian service closed its doors on 22 September was simply because the cash-strapped health board could not afford to make its 50 per cent contribution. Here I am answering the question, why could NHS Grampian not fund a service for its veterans when other boards could? Well, it is all down to funding from the Scottish Government. Last week, the Parliament's own independent information service informed us all in the chamber that the Scottish Government failed to meet its own funding targets for NHS Grampian every year since 2009. It has shortchanged NHS Grampian to the tune of £165.6 million over this period. Deputy Presiding Officer, so that no one misunderstands me here, that is the Scottish Government's own target. It already fails people in the Grampian area by giving it the lowest funding target of any health board anyway. Behead of population, NHS Grampian is only targeted to receive 90 per cent of the average funding behead of population. To take away £165 million over this period has a cumulative and devastating effect on patient care. No wonder there were 3,700 fewer planned operations last year. No wonder the waiting times to be seen are ever-extending. No wonder that NHS Grampian does not have the funding to keep the first-point service for veterans running. I hope that everyone across the chamber would accept that this is not an acceptable situation. The cabinet secretary has come to the chamber today to say how much the Scottish Government supports veterans. I believe that he is sincere. He has done personally a great deal of work, and so has the Scottish Government. However, it is not all good work. I believe that when health ministers preside over the sorry state of affairs, I believe that it is not good enough. Deputy Presiding Officer, actions speak louder than words. We cannot all sit round in this chamber saying that life is rosy for our veterans when services are closing down because they are underfunded. What would I like to see? I would like to see the Government take action here. I hope that Keith Brown will, because I know that he is sincere in this. I would like to see the Government take action and restore the lifeline service to the veterans resident in the north-east. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I am very grateful to have the opportunity to speak in this debate. I would like to thank Keith Brown and the Scottish Government for bringing this motion to Parliament, which allows each of us the opportunity to show our thanks and support for the valued contribution that our armed forces and veterans community make to Scotland. I want to recognise the tone and the tenor of the contributions—almost all of the contributions in this debate this afternoon. In particular, I was struck by something that Daniel Johnson said. He spoke of 30 or 40 years ago, over the time, where perhaps every family across Scotland in the UK would have a member who had either served in the forces or had served. The power of that had been potentially for knitting communities together. I was struck by something that Bruce Crawford stated. He spoke of his grandfather serving in a mounted regiment in Gallipoli. My great-great-grandfather, Hugh McCabe of Ayrshire-Ylmanry, served at Gallipoli too, and those freads are century-old, still binds us together. Remembering Sunday, I had the honour of laying reefs in Colbarcain, Laquinnock, Neustin and Barthead in my constituency of Renfrewshire South. What is always a particularly poignant moment was made more so when I met a constituent act that I remember in service in Barthead, who had known my maternal grandmother, Arthur McGettigan. My grandfather died over a decade before I was born. However, I had heard many stories of him that, as a student, he was the dux of St John's in Barthead, of his employment at the foreman of the pottery at the Shanksworks, of his membership of the Knights of St Columba and his involvement in setting up the Columba club in Barthead, and that having been a volunteer at Citizens Advice, he had even considered running for the local council. In that chance meeting with my constituent last Sunday at the Remembrance Service in Barthead, I also learned that my grandfather, or Big Arthur, as he was known, was the person people called upon if he required help with just about anything, and that he was also apparently a fine dancer in great company. He was, in short, a pillar of the Barthead community. Arthur McGettigan served not only his community but also his country. As a sergeant in the Royal Artillery in the Second World War, he saw action in Greece, North Africa and Italy. From that conflict, the lessons of which perhaps have never been more relevant, my grandfather carried not only the scars of shrapnel but also a sense of leadership and duty that he carried into his post-service life, both as a reservist and in the Barthead community, that nearly 46 years after his death he could be spoken of so fondly as by the constituent I may and remember in Sunday speaks to the profoundly positive impact that those who serve and have served in our armed forces are capable of making on our lives and to our communities. It is important and proper that in this Parliament and in each of our communities that we represent and we continue to recognise that contribution. Such an opportunity was afforded to me earlier this year when I attended the Renfisher Provost Awards. It was there that the 102nd Fuel Squadron 71st engineer regiment of the Army Reserved, based in Paisley, were awarded the freedom of Renfisher, as well as recently serving in Iraq, Afghanistan and South Sudan. The squadron has helped with floods in Renfisher and across the UK, as well as supporting local charities and family days. Renfisher's association with the armed forces and veterans community goes further is also home to Erskine, a name associated with the care of veterans for over a century. Also in Renfisher is the Scottish War Blindings newly opened Hawkead Centre, which is a state-of-the-art data and activity centre for veterans with sight loss. Those are services and support that I know are very much welcomed by our forces and veterans communities right across the west of Scotland. Next year will of course mark the centenary of the end of the First World War, and a year that will offer much opportunity for reflection on the contribution and sacrifices made by our armed forces and veterans. It will also afford the opportunity to consider how we can strengthen our support for serving personnel, veterans and their families. In this regard, it is timely that next year we will also mark 10 years since the creation of the Scottish Veterans Fund. Since then, as other colleagues have noted, over £1 million has been committed to over 140 projects. I am pleased to see that the fund has been redeveloped in partnership with Standard Life Aberdeen to provide dedicated additional funding that is focused on employability. That will complement the Scottish Government's continuing work on employability, such as the veterans employability strategic group and the capitalising on military talent toolkit, which supports employers in understanding the skills that veterans have to offer. Along with developing support for earlier young service leavers and exploring ways to highlight best practice within public service recruitment, it is clear that the Scottish Government is working hard to ensure that no veteran faces a disadvantage in securing employment as a transition to civilian life. There are many other areas that I could cover, including housing, health and support for the children and families of both serving personnel and veterans. However, in coming to a close, I would like to recognise the amendment in the name of Maurice Corry. Our fund sector indeed makes an invaluable contribution to the care and welfare of our veterans and forces community. Equally, however, and I am sure that Maurice Corry and members would agree, veterans and our forces community make an invaluable contribution also to the running of veterans charities and the wider third sector. It is an honour to represent the four-season veterans community of Renfisher South in our Scottish Parliament. It is a dedication, professionalism and courage of our armed forces that guarantees each of us in this place and beyond the privilege to live in a free and democratic society. I look forward to continuing to support our forces and veterans community and supporting the Scottish Government's work to ensure that armed forces, veterans and their families receive the best support and access to opportunities across Scotland. I call Finlay Carson to be followed by Richard Lochhead. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I welcome the opportunity to speak on this important issue and take the chance to commend our courageous veterans. My family does not have a long history in the armed forces, however, my great-uncle served in the Somme as a blacksmith and looked after the now famous warhorses. During the summer recess, colleagues across the chamber were fortunate enough to spend some time with armed forces at Lossmouth and hear first hand some of the issues that not only armed forces but their partners have in living and moving around the country with little notice. I can speak for everyone in the chamber today when I say that they were enormously grateful for the service that they play for our country. At this time, in particular, they are very much to the forefront of our thoughts. That being said, their service to our country does not end when they finish their deployment and neither should our support for those men and women. After returning from combat, veterans are too often left to face a harsh and unique transition back to ordinary life. 33 per cent of ex-service personnel feel isolated or lonely due to mental or physical health issues. That is a deeply concerning statistic. Although that may not represent all veterans' experience, it is imperative that they acknowledge and show our support for veterans as they readjust. I am pleased to see that both the Scottish and the UK Government are taking action to tackle that issue. Third sector veteran charities play a vital role in helping with this complex transition. Last year, armed forces charities helped over 22,000 individuals to find employment and over 3,000 individuals gained qualifications. Charities also helped veterans with other less discussed hardships of readjustment, including providing advice and housing services. I would like to take this moment to highlight two charities in my constituency of Galloway and West Dumfries. South West Scotland R&R provides activity holidays for injured servicemen that have returned from action, more particularly recently from Afghanistan. Next January will mark their ninth anniversary as a host for service personnel. Since they opened, they have hosted well over 400 returning servicemen in their house on the coastal village of Cersthorn on the beautiful Sorway Firth and what everybody around the chamber recognises is Scotland's most beautiful constituency and what will hopefully be Scotland's third national park. However, those servicemen are provided accommodation along with bereaved families for a week-long holiday filled with outdoor activities and plenty of good local food. South West Scotland R&R allows ex-servicemen to take a real holiday and break in a friendly and comfortable location away from military rules. It provides a much-deserved needed place of peace and I am incredibly grateful for the service that it provides right in the heart of my community. Dumfries in Galloway is also home to a section of SAFA, the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Families Association. The branch exists for veterans and veterans families around Dumfries in Galloway and helps them to find emotional, financial and practical support. As part of the national SAFA charity, the branch is committed to serving our armed forces and their families in whatever way they can with their network of trained volunteers in the community and on military bases. It is important to acknowledge that the readjustment period is different for each veteran and their family. SAFA's wide range of services from house and support to mental illness counselling allows them to help each serviceman in whatever way they need most. Dumfries in Galloway branch plays a vital role for veterans in the community and their mission and will work with continued support from myself and other members across the chamber. The third sector of veterans charities such as South-West, R&R and SAFA have an invaluable role to play in supporting veterans and their families. It is our role that those charities should continue to grow and provide continual aid. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank Eric Fraser, a Royal Navy veteran of 37-year service. Mr Fraser is Scotland's inaugural veterans commissioner since the office was created in 2014. I commend the move by the Scottish Government to bring veterans' needs into consideration when Government ministers are looking at new legislation. The veterans commissioner, and I quote, considers Scotland's approach to be largely encouraging, but there is no room for complacency and I am convinced that more can and needs to be done. By no stretch of imagination does the system need to be overhauled. That is very reassuring, but Mr Fraser notes that often local authorities, Government agencies and housing providers providing general information about housing options in Scotland simply fail to reach veterans and service leavers, more often because it is poorly presented, managed and disseminated. The Government is making good progress in communicating with our veterans, but we should also be conscious of how we present and provide help to the community. The Government is within reach of securing this, and I once again commend the action taken so far. In conclusion, veterans can play and do play an essential part in our communities, not just because of the experience that they have gained through service, but also actively providing our local communities with invaluable attributes and skills, and they should pass that on to others. Key stakeholders such as Government and charities should treat them not as helpless and lost but as the most valuable and strong members that we can have in our community, and they deserve our support whenever needed. The last contribution in the open debate is Richard Lochhead. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Given that many of us were laying wreaths on Sunday to pay tribute to the fallen and those who had served their country and defended their values, it is very appropriate to have this debate today, and there have been many fine contributions from all parties around the chamber. The cabinet secretary kicked off the debate speaking about changing landscapes. I guess that one changing landscape has been the political landscape in Scotland in relation to how we can support veterans in this country. We must not forget and always put into perspective the fact that, since we have had devolution and particularly since the SNP Government was elected in 2007, we have the first veterans minister, we have the veterans fund and, of course, we have Scotland's first veterans commissioner as well in the form of Eric Fraser, who is in the gallery today, and I joint others in paying tribute to his good work and the many good issues that he has highlighted. I thank him today for visiting forests in my constituency a few months ago, where we met some local people and discussed some of the issues that veterans face in the local community. The other changing landscape, of course, is my constituency in Moray, which has played such a key role in defending the nation throughout the 20th and now the 21st century, and, of course, largely that has been through the presence of the RAF and the navy over those years. Even today, as you go about Moray, you will see many symbols, particularly from World War 2. The beach defences, which are now under the care of the Forestry Commission, are still there and a tourist attraction in their own right. Of course, the now redundant many airfields in the area are there to see for visitors and local people alike. Today, of course, we have RAF Lossymouth, which is the only RAF base in Scotland, and we have the Kinloss Barracks, which was formerly the RAF Kinloss base. There is still a huge presence for the military in Moray today, and so many men and women are still playing their role in defending the country and doing their good work. As a result of that presence over the past century or so, as well as today's presence with the two establishments, there are many, many veterans that live in Moray. As I have said before, if we were to measure the number of veterans as a percentage of the population in Moray, we must be at the top of the league or near the top of the league in terms of the whole of Scotland. Of course. Keith Brown Thank you, Richard Lochhead, for taking intervention. On the point that he was making about the preponderance of veterans in his constituency, they also tend to be extremely highly qualified veterans in his area. Again, it goes back to the point that Daniel Johnson made. Would he think it worthwhile talking to the local council in Moray to suggest that one way of encapsulating, keeping that huge reservoir of highly skilled individuals, some of whom have set up companies after having left the RAF, that they could perhaps incorporate a proposal around their growth deal to both themselves and the UK Government to maximise and retain those skills in the local area? Richard Lochhead I think that the cabinet secretary should expect me to have a very good point, and I certainly will take that point away with me because it is very clearly the case that our veterans play such a crucial role in both Moray's social life, but particularly in our economic life. Many of the people who come across us in Moray society are veterans, and many of my friends are veterans in Moray. I will always remember a few years ago having a pint with a friend in the local pub, and then it dawned on me that he just returned from military action a week or two previously when we were just talking about life in general. It brings back to you the various backgrounds that people have in your local community, particularly in terms of the number of veterans that we have in Moray. Many people who have left, particularly with the closure of RAF can loss, have started up their own businesses in the area and are now supplying jobs and economic growth in their own right. How can I have this debate without mentioning Winswep Brewers, who produce fantastic craft beers and are doing extremely well at the moment? I think that the cabinet secretary had the pleasure of tasting one of the beers at a recent reception in Parliament. I will read in Nigel Tidy, who started that now growing business, are former RAF pilots. Of course, not surprisingly, even though my favourite beer produces the blonde pale ale, they have beers named after Tornado and Typhoon to keep them with the theme of the RAF in Lossymouth and Moray. Of course, the voluntary sector is very dependent on veterans in the area as well. I was visiting a local scout camp at Spiny recently, where I was taught map reading by one of the volunteers who is a former pilot or navigator in the RAF. He was teaching the kids and me map reading, so the local voluntary sector is very well supported by veterans. That transition that many people have mentioned to civilian life from military life is sometimes seen as a battle in its own right and often presents many challenges for many people. Maurice Corry of course had a very good debate a few months ago on the combat stress report, which highlighted many of those issues. It suggested that veterans in Scotland tended to be found in areas of deprivation and many of the people in those areas had mental health issues to deal with. That is why the Scottish Government's many initiatives that I have spoken about today play such a valuable role in supporting people with that transition and settling back into civilian life and dealing with many of the challenges that they face. If I was to make a couple of quick points before I finish, firstly there are so many organisations out there helping, so many. I think that Maurice Corry said around 320 charities in Scotland who are helping veterans that sometimes I think that it is quite difficult to navigate what each one delivers and raise awareness of them at the same time so that the many thousands of veterans in each of our communities can take advantage of the services that are on offer. On veterans' first point, which was raised by Mike Rumbles, I very much take on board the cabinet secretary's view of that situation. I have had constituents in contact with me from Forrest who do lament the decline of that particular service and I think that that reinforces the case for marshalling the other services in the 320 charities out there so that their services are available and there is much awareness of what is available there amongst the veteran community. My final point is that in terms of my own constituency, the rest of Scotland, given the number of veterans who serve in RAF, next year being the centenary of the RAF is an ideal opportunity for the Scottish Government and the rest of Parliament and others in society to celebrate the role of the RAF and the many veterans throughout previous periods of history who have served in the RAF. I think that that will be an ideal opportunity to revisit some of the issues that we are discussing today. When I move to the closing speeches, I call Mark Griffin around eight minutes please, Mr Griffin. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I would close as I open the debate by restating the continued support that we give to our armed forces, personnel and veterans. We do a great debt of gratitude to members of the armed forces and veterans and some of us will be thinking particularly about family members who served in World War I as we approach 100 years from the end of that particular war. My own family, my great-great-uncle, served in World War I. My family history is all based around Cull-Scyth and Croy in the old village of Auckland, Starray. I would have expected my great-great-uncle to follow along with a great many of Bruce Crawford's constituents to go through that route from Stirland and deploy from there. However, my gran had given me his soldiers' Bible from the First World War and it was gifted to him as they deployed from the province of Rutherglen. I am not sure how he ended up deploying from Rutherglen when I would have expected him to deploy with their giles from Stirland. Maybe I will get down to the bottom of that particular element of my own family history if anyone is able to help me out in this continuing year. Those seven in our armed forces are asked to make massive personal sacrifices in their human rights, and some ultimately give up their right to life in service of our country. In return, it is only right that Governments and we as a nation value respect and support our armed forces and that that culminates in the annual commemoration of armsistay. We stop to remember those who have given their lives in action so that we could enjoy the freedom that we experience today. Some members may know that I spent some time in the territorial army and I would have to say that while I have not had the same experience in any other situation in life, I did go through all the training that a reservist can, but I did not deploy for a number of reasons. Even then, with the level of experience that I have, I still cannot begin to imagine the level of intensity and commitment to the fellow soldiers of those who served on the front line. As I said in my opening contribution, I could only listen and try to comprehend when hearing from a young soldier who had served in Afghanistan, what it was like to come under heavy fire, what it was like to lose a fellow soldier from his battalion. That was a loss to him, as great as any member of his own family. Only again, imagine how isolated someone must feel if they are discharged from the armed forces into society alone, perhaps with no family, after having such a close bond to the comrades that they fought with and possibly lost in combat. It is then of real vital importance that the advice and support services are in place for former service personnel to adjust to living in mainstream society and that Governments continue to plan, co-ordinate and deliver the support and advice services from the public, private and voluntary sectors for ex-service personnel and their families and children. I welcome that most local authorities have now appointed veterans champions and that they are starting, they are working and starting to deliver real positive changes in those local authority areas. The cabinet secretary mentioned in his opening speech the issue around housing social landlords. There is the example that often gives the North Lanarkshire council who have amended their housing policy to recognise the priority needs of ex-service personnel and their families who have just been discharged and given extra points and extra priority in coming through that housing application system. As well as our local authorities and actions that Governments take, we should also continue to support the work done by the many charities across Scotland. I have heard a lot of the examples. Graham Dey mentioned combat stress and I had the privilege of visiting Holybush House in Ayrshire in the last session of Parliament and speaking to some of the veterans that were there. One of the big issues that kept coming up was around access to the concessionary travel card for veterans. I know that that is something that has already been under way on that. Disabled or injured veterans already qualify for that national entitlement card now and that was a positive step. There is Erskine that Tom Arthur mentioned, who is the leading provider of care for veterans in the country, providing care across a wide range from respite short breaks, residential and nursing care, dementia care, palliative care, physiotherapy, speech and language therapy and rehab care. Erskine is now working in partnership with the British Legion to create 40 jobs in a new manufacturing centre. There was an announcement in the news today that stated that a manufacturing centre staffed by Scottish veterans is to open next year, offering a lifeline to many X service personnel. What is going to be known as Scotland's bravest manufacturing company will now produce rail and road signs, recycle within products and provide print and mail service. Another fantastic example of the work that is being done by charities that we should do all that we can to support. We are committed to continuing to work on a cross-party basis to ensure that our veterans and their families receive the support that they need and deserve. In particular, we recognise that our service personnel often need help with their transition to civilian life, particularly in finding housing and employment and a recognition that those who leave the service can bear physical and psychological scars for many years after their service ends. That has been another good consensual debate on the need to support our armed forces and veteran community in Scotland. I close again as I open by acknowledging the debt of gratitude that Scotland owes to those who have served in defence of the freedom in our armed forces and that we will be supporting the Government motion, the Conservative amendment at decision time, and we are willing, as always, to work on a cross-party basis to support veterans in Scotland. I call Liam Kerr, nine minutes please, Mr Kerr. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I am very pleased to close for the Scottish Conservatives today and for the avoidance of doubt if there was any, I can confirm this party's support for the Government's motion. First, I would like to thank Keith Brown for bringing forward this debate. As has been pointed out at various points throughout today's debate, it is important that we pay tribute to our armed forces and veterans community and that we recognise the immense contribution that they have made to Scottish society. What is that contribution? Many such as I can only imagine. Daniel Johnson made an important point at the outset when he suggested that perhaps people like me have no idea of the stresses that those people have faced or the stresses that they have had to deal with. I suspect that he is right that the likes of Keith Brown, Morris Corry, Ed Mountain and others in this chamber know much more than they would let on. I thought that Bruce Crawford spoke very movingly and in a personal capacity that made it very real about his grandfather, I think it was. That is why debates like those are so important. Above all, to acknowledge, as Ed Mountain said, that those people have, at our request, been prepared to put everything on the line—their health, their sanity, their families, their very future. The motion also flags the excellent work of the Scottish veterans commissioner, Eric Fraser, and his team. All of the veterans commissioner's reports, as my colleague Morris Corry rightly pointed out, have recommended some ambitious plans for the Scottish Government and have allowed today for a productive and insightful debate. Various areas were explored, both by the commissioner and throughout the debate. One vital area for veterans and their families is housing. Ensuring that appropriate housing is available to every veteran and their family in Scotland must be a priority. As Morris Corry said about the veterans commissioner's housing report, veterans need better information from the Scottish Government and from the MOD, but local authorities must also be training their front-line staff to deliver that information in an appropriate and accessible way. I thought that Daniel Johnson was right to call for better information. I thought that he was right to speak about the families of those leaving and their situation. The transition from military life is one of the most crucial periods in determining what challenges and opportunities will present themselves to a veteran following their service. I therefore thought that the motion's point about continuing to work in partnership to ensure that our armed forces, veterans and their families receive the best possible support and access to opportunities was picked up very well, especially by the likes of Bruce Crawford talking about the CAB in Stirling. I would also particularly like to flag Christine Graham's contribution, who ran with Daniel's point about spouses and partners and children. I agree that we must not forget those individuals. I really enjoyed learning about the contribution of Women's Enterprise Scotland and unlocking business potential. There is clearly something there and something to develop. I am pleased that further funding has been secured. I shall encourage other members, as Christine Graham did, to investigate start-upwithwes.com after the debate. Gillian Martin, the convener of the cross-party group of women in enterprise, I would like to invite you to come along and hear from Wes and the other work that they do. Liam Kerr, there is an offer that you cannot refuse. I do not intend to refuse it. I would be delighted to, Gillian Martin, of course. A number of members referred to employment and education, as did Mr Fraser's third report. In particular, Mr Fraser mentioned the need for better recognition of qualifications and skills. A number of members have picked that up throughout the afternoon. Those people who we are talking about have skillsets, disciplines and experiences that are of huge value if we can only recognise them and tap into them. We certainly look forward to supporting the Government's motion. I commend the Scottish Conservative amendment, which seeks to explicitly recognise the importance of the many veterans' charities. However, before I do that, I want to flag a point that was made by the cabinet secretary in his opening remarks about those transferable skills and being a valuable resource. Mark Griffin made the point at the outset and the Royal British Legion made the point that there is a risk of a misconception that, as the Legion talks about, veterans are, quote, mad, bad and sad. Their statistics suggest that this is not the case and that, statistically, veterans are, in many respects, no different from the population at large. Mr Fraser talks in the transition in Scotland about that this might be the time for a more fundamental shift in the way that we perceive and treat veterans in Scotland, reversing a narrative that tends to view them through the prism of need and obligation and encouraging society to recognise them far more for their strengths and their qualities. However, some need more help. In Scotland, Maurice Corry pointed out that we have at least 320 armed forces charities in operation, providing a wide variety of different services for the veterans community. One of those, like Wings for Warriors, works with wounded and medically discharged personnel to provide them with the skills to achieve an exciting, rewarding and sustainable future as professional pilots. They have big plans to create the world's first disabled veterans flying school, hopefully based on the eastern perimeter of Aberdeen airport. They have recently been awarded two small grants from Aberdeen council, but that council remains the lowest-funded in the country. I hope that the cabinet secretary will familiarise himself with Wings for Warriors and respond positively to approaches from them in the future. Another successful and incredibly significant charity in the north-east is Horseback UK. It was co-founded by ex-marine, Joc Hutchison, and it uses horsemanship to inspire recovery, to regain self-esteem and provide a sense of purpose and community to the wounded, the injured and the sick of the military community. Graham Day spoke very movingly of his grandad, who, even with a drama in him, found it difficult to talk of the horrors that he'd witnessed. That's what Horseback UK is mainly about. Learning to work with a horse is one of the most intricate and challenging things that anyone can do. The charity can demonstrate that it has empirical data that shows that, both mentally and physically, there are benefits that result. I went to sea in the summer to see for myself how it worked and the bond between horse and man. Going into the yard, Joc brought out this huge animal that's the size of a horse. Demonstrating what not to do—that was the joke—it was a horse. Glad to see you're listening. Demonstrating what not to do, he instructed the horse to move, but it refused. Then he stood respectfully next to the beast. He spoke to it, and I could see him gently gesticulating as to what he would like the horse to do. Then he stood still next to the horse. The horse was still. He looked in the horse's eye and smiled, and then raised his hand, and then he will tell you exactly what happened when he comes to my member's debate and reception, which is on 7 February. I look forward to seeing you all there. Finally, Maurice Corry alluded to my motion and debate from last February, where I noted that almost two thirds of members of the forces community had personally come across people wearing medals or insignia awarded to someone else. He also noted that the awards for valor protection bill, which would have made the false wearing of medals with the intention to deceive a criminal offence throughout the United Kingdom, had fallen due to the general election. I would ask that the cabinet secretary consider in his closing and perhaps give a detailed response to where he sees the next stage in this, given that in my debate there was cross-party support for the awards for valor bill and if there's anything that we should be doing. Presiding Officer, we've had a consensual and productive debate this afternoon. It's encouraging to see such cross-party consensus on this significant subject. I send a signal from the chamber that we hold the work of veterans, their families and their children, their commitment and devotion in the highest possible regard and pledge to forever honour and support our servicemen and women, their families and our veterans. Thank you. I call Keith Brown to close this debate. I thank the members of the debate for what has been an interesting and stimulating debate on what bi-consensus seems to be regarded as an extremely important issue, which is obviously of close personal interest to many of us here today. We've had quite a number of very thoughtful contributions and, of course, they've also had Mike Rumbles. It's also true to say that some of the contributions—I'll try and respond to them if I can, including to Mike Rumbles—want to come back on the issues that he raised. First of all, to say in relation to a point raised by Bruce Crawford, he mentioned a number of ex-personnel who have ended up in prison. I had the chance for the first time this year to go to my local prison to go to the remembrance service there. I encourage members, if they get the chance, as well as going to the other remembrance services that they go to if they can to go to one in their local prison, if there is one available to do so. That is one way where we can actually make contact, as I did with a number of people who are ex-service personnel but who currently are in prison. It's one way of joining in the respect of that day and making some connections. I should also say that we all have a role to play, not least through remembrance, but also more strategically, as MSPs and our constituencies, to ensure that those in the armed forces community who require assistance receive the best advice and services available. I think that just the fact that we show our awareness and empathy with the roles that they play is very important, so I am very pleased about the early stage armed forces visiting programme. Just to make it very clear to all members that there is a visit next week to my old unit 4.5 commando, where we will see all the things that Marines get up to, so to say to anybody that I am trying to see if I can clear my diary to come along, and I am sure that you have a very enjoyable day in Condor and Arbroath. Today was the first opportunity that I have had to update Parliament on our work to take forward the veteran commissioner's recommendations. I have never, I have to say in these debates, declared an interest. Perhaps I should have done, but I should also perhaps have declared an interest when appointing Eric Fraser, because, like me, he was in the Royal Navy, although I was in the best part, of course, of the Royal Navy being in their own Marines. I would want to agree with those members that I have pointed out the quality of the work that Eric Fraser has taken forward. I think that it has been a tremendous innovation. We have been very lucky to have Eric Fraser as our first veteran's commissioner. Going forward, I think that the best testament to Eric's work will be to maintain the momentum and transparency on some of the important issues that he has raised, and I commit to look to find time for a debate like this annually. The Scottish Government and our partners have taken forward a wide portfolio of work aimed at better supporting our armed forces community. Of course, and to go back to a point that was made by a number of members, there is a great deal more that we can do. I think that there were some very interesting contributions that we had. I noticed that Liam Kerr referred to three veterans, myself, Maurice Corry and Edward Mountain, and then talked about Mad, Bad and Sad. I do not know which of us is which, but I am very grateful to Liam Kerr for pointing that out. Finlay Carson said that he had been to the most beautiful constituency in Scotland in Manchester, and he said that he could come back any time that he liked. He has been more than welcome. Bruce Crawford's contribution, especially the recollection, as with a number of other members of their family, is now going back into the midst of time, to be honest. It is always very welcome to hear that. It does, as Daniel Johnson reminded us, to help us to maintain that connection, which I think is very important. Again, two very good speeches from Mark Griffin in opening and closing, specifically in remembering the sacrifice that was given by many veterans. Also, some of the contributions from Tom Arthur and Christine Grahame in terms of women's enterprise Scotland. The important point to me is that I heard what Christine Grahame had to say, but she will agree with me that it is only when you see the change that takes place in those mainly women—of course, for women's enterprise—that are involved in a change because of that isolation, sometimes alienation, and also because of the extent to which you can be diminished by not being the primary person, if you like, in support of somebody else. It has had an astonishing effect on the women concerned who are supporting male partners by and large, the ones that I saw in the armed forces. I will do, yes. Sorry. A very interesting point about Christine Grahame's women's enterprise in Scotland. There are also recruits for spouses, which she knows is currently running. I wonder whether there might be, cabinet secretary, some get-together of those two organisations, because they are trying to achieve the same aims, because we have got talented partners' wives who are coming up to Scotland, particularly now as we see into Fastlane. I attended last day the opening of the Scottish Submarine Centre, which is fantastic, and there are lots of people who are there who could offer skills. We have already taken one of those up, who did the final design of the digital motifs for the Submarine Centre. I commend that. Keith Brown. I am happy to look into that. As you said, there is a synergy between what is happening there and what is happening with Women Enterprise Scotland. Again, Liam Kerr points about the two third sector organisations that he mentioned. I have been to horseback UK, and the Scottish Government has supported them to the extent of £7,500. In fact, Drock, as well as being an extra marine, is from Dollar as well, where I come from, so we had a very good visit to there. The one thing that I took positively, if it was possible to do so from Mike Rumble's discussion, which I think belonged to a different debate entirely, is that he mentioned the fact that we are not just here to slap each other in a black and be consensual way, should not be unwilling to embrace controversy or sometimes difficult issues. That is the only way that we can continue to improve services. I do not want to be consensual for the sake of it, but it is quite important to say that, given the comments of members about remembrance, the barge that I am wearing today commemorates the First World War. Of course, for now into the year, I will come to the 100th anniversary of Armistice Day. It is very important to remember that. The point that I would make is that, if you think about what the people in that particular conflict went through, by and large, entrents that are soaked, freezing, or rat-infested, where you often have the remains of your colleagues, is what you are walking on in that trench, where you are constantly bombarded. We have heard some comments about shell shock, as it was called then, and PTSD since then. I could only imagine somebody who experienced that looking at the debate that we had about what kind of jacket somebody wore to remember and service this week, and just been absolutely appalled. That is a bizarre discussion to have, and it bears no respect at all for the people who went through that experience. As I said, generally, very positive contributions. The Government, for our part, of course, is willing to listen to both Eric Fraser and other members about where we might be able to improve things. We have taken forward quite a number of issues. I think that some of the points that Daniel Johnson made about whether it is housing, whether it is health or whether it is education plans for people leaving the armed forces, should start on the day that they join the armed forces. I have made that point repeatedly to the United Kingdom Government. The MOD could do something at the very start. Everybody could immediately subscribe to get housing points from the day that they joined the armed forces. We could get right away the health records. We could oblige people to tell the MOD which GP they are going to go to as soon as they leave the armed forces. There is a lot that we can do if we can get in at that stage, and we have tried to convince the UK Government of that and will continue to do so. It is those three things that are the three pillars. People have mentioned how important getting a job is. It is extremely important, but it also must rely on having a decent house and also on health, having access to the right services. If we can get those three things right, even if we just want to be selfish about it, we can save the state an awful lot of money just by getting it right. More importantly, we can provide a proper future for our veterans. I have also mentioned where we will bring forward guidance and promote best practice in housing. We have got an obligation here as well. We will continue to work through the Scottish Service Children's Strategy group to support the educational needs of service children in Scotland. Someone mentioned the peripatetic nature of the armed forces. I have to say that continually moving units around the country—there is one unit that is about to go through its fourth educational system. That cannot be good for the children. I would say that in future moves and revisions of the defence configuration in the UK, let us think about those members of the armed forces who have families and children, because it is very important. Going back to the point that I made before, how expensive it can be when we get it wrong. If we want to avoid that expense and provide the best possible experience for children in the armed forces, then we should get that right and take them into account when we are moving people around the chess board. We will also take forward our engagement on employability through the veterans employability strategic group. In response to the particular point that Maurice Corry raised about the group, I think that having had a long chat with Mark Bibby, I am really impressed by the work that is being done to us to the extent that I did not expect to be by the work that has been taken forward in relation to that. It would repay him if he gets a chance if he has not done so already to sit down with Mark and discuss that further. Some really important issues coming out of that are how we best get veterans not just into work but into the type of work that their qualifications, their experience and their abilities deserve them to get into it. That group will continue to look at the commissioner's recommendations as their work progresses, including considering areas such as work placements, accreditation and mapping of military skills into the civilian workplace. They have also set out a plan for additional qualitative research to identify barriers that will help to shape thinking on the feasibility of a pilot approach. The other point that was made about articulation of skills, experience and qualifications that have been gained during the armed forces service. We have done some work on that through the SDS, but certainly recently being in Canada talking to the Deputy Minister for Veterans, they seem to have a much more comprehensive approach. Of course, they have both sides of the equation, both in armed forces and veterans, but I think that there is a lot we can learn from that to make it as easy as possible. I agree with the fundamental point that some of the skills that we have in our veterans are so valuable, especially just now in terms of Brexit and, of course, the pressure on the labour market that we have to make sure that we make the most of them. We have to let the veterans themselves know that they have those abilities. What they have done in the armed forces is really important to civilian employers. Many of us have concentrated in this debate quite rightly on the protections that we have afforded by those that have served and the way that they have defended our freedom in ways of life. It is right that we continue to make Scotland a society that recognises the full value of our armed forces community and aspires to be the destination of choice—a very important point. The destination of choice for personnel leaving the armed forces wherever they are in the UK or elsewhere, we should make Scotland the place they want to come to spend the rest of their lives after having served. In that vein, Presiding Officer, I would like to move the motion in my name. Thank you very much. That concludes our debate on Scottish Government support for veterans and the armed forces. The next item of business is consideration of business motions 8863 and 8864, on timetables for two bills at stage 2. I would ask any member who wishes to speak against either motion to press their request to speak button now. I call on Jovis Patrick on behalf of the bureau to move the motions on block. Move together. Thank you very much. No member has asked to speak against the motions. Therefore, I propose to put a single question. If any member objects, please say so now. Good. No member has objected. The question is that motions 8863 and 8864, in the name of Jovis Patrick, be agreed. Are we all agreed? We are agreed. The next item of business is consideration of three parliamentary bureau motions. I would ask Jovis Patrick on behalf of the bureau to move motion 8865 on approval of an SSI, motion 8866 on designation of a lead committee, and motion 8961 on committee membership. Move done block. Thank you very much. Now, I am minded to take a motion without notice to bring forward decision time to now. I invite the minister for primary business to move such a motion. Move done. Thank you very much. The question is that we move decision time to now. Are we all agreed? Yes. We are agreed. So there are four questions today. The first question is that motion 8649, in the name of Tom Arthur, on Powfif and Chaffrey Drainage Commission Scotland Bill, be agreed. Are we all agreed? Yes. We are agreed. The next question is that amendment 8855.1, in the name of Maurice Corry, who seeks to amend motion 8855, in the name of Keith Brown, on Scottish Government support for veterans and the armed forces community in Scotland, be agreed. Are we all agreed? Yes. We are agreed. The next question is that motion 8855, in the name of Keith Brown, as amended, be agreed. Are we all agreed? Yes. We are agreed. And a final question on three parliamentary bureau motions. Any object to a question on all three? No, that's good. The question is that motions 8865, 8866 and 8961, in the name of Joe FitzPatrick, be agreed. Are we all agreed? Yes. We are agreed. And that concludes decision time. I now close this meeting.